Mini 2231: Radio Buzz | Game Over!

[skitter30]

I really dont want all of the gunners to go off shooting random people, that sounds really bad to me

Also i still think we should fullclaim, i dont think we have from gamma, galron, ss, ceph, pooky, ydra

Ydra i'm gonna reread your iso before i can talk abt your associatives to ss or enchant

[skitter30]

I think i dont understand it, sorry >.>

[skitter30]

wack how everyone suddenly goes 'yup it's ydrasse'

shoot me tonight and then look at my vt flip tomorrow (:

are you even reading my posts lol

Whoops sorry i read that and somehow failed to process it >.>

Tetrina are you a gunsmith proper or did you receive that n1?

[skitter30]

From your pov, sure i think

[skitter30]

also tbh if youre gonna kill me and it's not today im gonna use the one thing i have at my disposal that no one can actually stop so shrug!

This is a very, very, very antitown proposal tbh

Also @pooky

[skitter30]

I think i dont understand it, sorry >.>

well let's start here: why do you think the people who have guns have guns?

i think it's obvious what kyouko or i would have done with a gun as of eod2, and if galron is town, i think they would have tried to get one of us to shoot him

Ahhhhhhhh ok that makes sense
Ok

This is actually enuf to downgrade my read of him

But i will point out also that a lot of the people who have guns are kinda 'free wheeling' and i think scum couod reasonably expect a whole lotta people to die tonight too

[skitter30]

killing me is antitown so ya know

Who said anything abt killing you rn, why is everyone so jumpty

[skitter30]

wish this would work but I got mixed up by what Tetrina claimed. I thought she said Pooky did not have a gun, but I was wrong

Ugh i need to read through this again but it made sende to me :(

[skitter30]

killing me is antitown so ya know

Who said anything abt killing you rn, why is everyone so jumpty

oh i don't know everyone suddenly going "oh i think it's ydrasse"

I mean i do think there's a good chanxe you're scum but saying tjay doesnt mean you're the flip today

[skitter30]

s_s replaces into scum slots without fail its s_s

VOTE: s_s

oh huh

VOTE: enchant

UNVOTE:

they're at 5/5 each

im getting anuket topaz flashbacks

Were you even scumreading either prior to this?

[skitter30]

i could shoot you tonight tbh

Ydra you gotta know that lolshooting is anti-town, why ro yiy keep proposing it

[skitter30]

Yes? If she stayed on me then I probably went down first.

You could say that about like 4 different slots who ended up on enchang at that point , like ssbm

Why did you not say this when i was pushing ssbm for similar reasoning

[skitter30]

she said kyouko was 85% scum to her.

@gamma this wasnt abt me

[skitter30]

Yeah, that's my point. Ydra didnt stay on enchant really at all, not sure why she's getting the cred for it

[skitter30]

At that point pooly was already talking abt hammeting? I have to rerraf but at least from the posts you quoted it looks like we were p set on enchant already at that point, bot sure you get cred for that

[skitter30]

I mean i've been defending him for kost of the game, it should be p easy to create a me/galron team if yoy're looking for it

[skitter30]

That is fair!

[skitter30]

skitter why do you townread galron, again?

He just feels very pure and townie, and like he's truly trying to solve. When he was run up several times, eqch time he didnt mind or try to get out of it, he just asked for the chance to give his fonal reads. It felt like a very townie reaction, and not like a scum reaction at all

Also his protest at flipping ss eod yesterday sounded supet townie as well, scum dont step in there to slow down the wagon unless exactly partners with ss, they try to force that misflip through

Infinity is in my town bin. Leaning skitter town too. I don't see a contradiction there

this is a weird post, I also townread those two but didn't feel a need to call attention to the fact they were pushing each other

Well iirc at the time me/infinity were having a big fight, so it does make sense to comment on it

[skitter30]

The guns went to players unlikely to shoot him.

But i do think this is a very cogent point so its possible i am wrong :(

[skitter30]

vote out galron and if he flips scum we have 2 guns on S_S and 2 guns on skitter
I don't have a plan for what should happen if he flips town just yet

So like i'm fine with this but i'm worried pooky/ydra wont listen to any plan

[skitter30]

it's strange to me that you feel this way yet don't see the same exact behavior in ss

Where has ss done any of that?

[skitter30]

which makes me think scum liked the status quo?

Ya

[skitter30]

I never really got the same vibe from ss, or felt like he had given up?

[skitter30]

So close

[skitter30]

I'm getting ready to leave the office, so giving some reads in case I get hammered on the way home. Scum!Gamma doesn't post 584 & 585, especially 585 I think. I also think scum!Gamma doesn't top post unless his scum game has changed since last time I scummed with him maybe 8-10 months ago.

Posts like these are why i like galron ^ he felt an urgency to get his final reads out in case he got flipped before he came home

[skitter30]

i did like that post too, but there's plenty i dislike as well

I think its hard to fake

~
I want to flip ss today
Tbh none of the mechanical meanderings have changed my mind

[skitter30]

I have no way of knowing, but assuming that they cant seems faulty to me

[skitter30]

If scum got to choose who to give the guns to, they probably dont have a way to interfere

Dont really know if that impacts my desite to flip u tho

[skitter30]

Ceph/ssbm, if given a gun, would shoot you
If you're scum and had the ability to give out guns, you dont give them to people who might shoot you
They dont have guns

[skitter30]

VOTE: ss

[skitter30]

Does the shiki pt currently have galron and pooky in it?

[skitter30]

Ceph/ssbm, if given a gun, would shoot you
If you're scum and had the ability to give out guns, you dont give them to people who might shoot you
They dont have guns

Okay. But why would I try to get one of them to shoot me.

The point is that scumyou is trying to avoid getting shot by not givibg guns to people likely to shoot u

[skitter30]

can u just vote SS and then ill shoot kyouko and then the game will be over

Not ssbm :( i think she's town

[skitter30]

Galron u started as a vt but in the hood with shiki?
And when she died you got her stuff?
And you added pooky to it yesterday?

[skitter30]

i would kinda assume that scum know how the guns work

[skitter30]

i think pooky is town for all of this
i kinda just want to kill ss now

[skitter30]

i probably did

[skitter30]

atually i think infinity was only day1? i don't rememberf if i did day2 as well

[skitter30]

also @pooky can you give me a tldr for why you think ssbm is scum here?

I think that she's actively trying to solve the mechanics, and is willing to die herself if that makes sense mechanically to help town here (like she recently self-voted here)
i don't think that comes from scum

[skitter30]

i still like my solve of ss/ydra
pedit i mean shiki is good but her reads aren't the be all end all

also whre were you when i was pushing that like yesterday >.>

[skitter30]

gamma why don't you think ss is scum again?

pedit ok maybe you do
so why don't we just start with ss again?

[skitter30]

well why is ydra town

[skitter30]

>> Enchant [6] : Gamma Emerald, Infinity 324, Galron, rousseau, PookyTheMagicalBear, Tetrina
>> Something_Smart [4] : ssbm_Kyouko, Cephrir, DrippingGoofbal, Enchant
>> Infinity 324 [1] : Something_Smart
>> Galron [1] : Ydrasse

>> Not Voting [1] : skitter30

i think that this wagon formation is quite curious tbh, and i think that there's probably scum on ss + 1 scum on enchant

VOTE: enchant

E-1 I think

enchant how did you come to place this vote?

i cntrl+f'd your whole iso for 'enchant', you have exactly one instance of 'enchant' in your iso prior to this vote: 1373, where your giving him a rundown on the game, and you blamed his wagon on house being inactive.

other than that, it doesn't look like you have a scumread on enchant, nor does it look like you interacted with him at all, nor does it look like you *tried* to interact with him at all, unless i'm missing something obvious

and wrt house, your iso is similarly puzzling:
- true null read on him 398: i think at that point you could have had some sort of read on him given his entrance pushing tetrina, but i could still understand a null read at that time
- questioning the house wagon 968

and uh not much else

so unless i'm missing something obvious: where did the e1 vote on enchant even come from?

Spoiler:

Actually I dont think Roden's answer is going to change my mind

VOTE: Roden

I'm feeling inspired

Game is starting to feel, like Gamma was saying, like the active posters are all town. I went back to reread RVS because that's where I tend to be best at catching scum and think Roden could be scum from the first 10ish pages

ok well my readrate on skitt is 100% besides perpetual melo so there

VOTE: ceph

:dead:

That's a funny way to spell Roden

Whenever Infinity hasn't been pushing skitter she's fallen back to Ceph. Once in the beginning, and now again. Mostly she's just voting skitter and mediating other discussions though. Recently she said she's ready to basically just defend townreads and jump on the biggest wagon that isn't on her townreads. In the same post she says she'd like to sort Roden or cephrir if they're around. Ceph

has

been around though, and she's had the time to sort him since early today when she made the effort to get away from the skitter push. So it doesnt track to me that she's still looking to vote him over Roden right now. Especially when she seemed receptive to voting Roden until he became an actual wagon.

Highly suspicious :dead:

Fwiw I think if you read cephrir's iso that infinity's point falls apart rather easily. Maybe I'm being too easy in TRing ceph though.

hi! the rescuers (morning tweet iso) if you'd be so kind

Okay, I read them. Was there any information given about who's controlling them?

Presumably it's not MT, since this wasn't listed as a bastard game.

Tetrina told us she was invited to this game by MT and that she plays irl. I believe based on the description of the players that are controlling the callers it is possible that the 5 callers also know MT irl and possibly are from the same player group as Tetrina.

in my experience when there's 2 leading wagons and neither of the 2 have any solid/real read on the other wagon its probly just S/S

They both just repped in, though generally I'd agree. Enchant should at least be able to read S_S via Roden though

VOTE: enchant

E-1 I think

These are all the times you mention the ss/roden sloy and/or interact with it between the roden vote and the enchant vote, unless i missed something

So, uh, where did the townvibes even happen

Like you're explaining your votes with a lot of trajectory that there's no evidende for itt

i literally made that case on ssbm yesterday >.>

[skitter30]

5 of us without guns but now we have 2 claimed innos. Tbh I think the clearest path is to kill me, Galron, and skitter

If none of us flip scum we know that either Tetrina or Cephrir are scum. If Cephrir is the scum of those 2 we know the last scum is S_S. If Tetrina is scum, it will be up to yall to figure it out. Doing the math on this, lets have an elimination on one of us 3 (me, Galron skitter) and double taps on the other 2. Leaves us with the 4 gunners, Tetrina, and Cephrir. Assuming the worst case scenario, where all 3 of us were town, scum will not kill Tetrina or Cephrir because it means the other one is scum. So it will be 6 players, scum will nightkill one of the gunners, and we will be in 5p ELO with a 50-50 shot at scum in Cephrir, Tetrina.

If the one we elim is town

, but one of the other 2 is scum, then scum will shoot Cephrir or Pooky in the night because otherwise they will both wake up cleared if there is only 1 scum alive. So we will be in 4v1 with a conftown. This is very good odds I think as scum will be forced to kill conftown and we will have a free mislim before ELO where scum's kill is forced.

If the one we elim is scum, then the gunners can have free reign to shoot who they want. Cephrir and Pooky would be cleared before the Night Actions by the flip, so we would have at least 1 conftown in the morning as long as none of the gunners fuck up and shoot one of them. Presumably scum will shoot one of them.

I actually think eliminating Town amongst the 3 of us and having the gunners doubletap the other 2 to force final 5 is ideal. I know I'm town so if the gunners will agree to this plan I'll self-vote

UNVOTE:

ah she didn't actually self-vote but she's clearly willing to ^
i think this post is really, relaly, really townie

[skitter30]

ok well i'm running out of people to scumread so that's not a good enough reason anymore

[skitter30]

ah she didn't actually self-vote but she's clearly willing to ^
i think this post is really, relaly, really townie

yea I didn't read any of that also offering to self-vote is usually just performative nonsense when I've encountered it, I don't think that plan actually goes thru

no i didnt read her plan.

well maybe read it and get back to me
i thought it was very sincere and unlikely to come from scum, i don't think ti's performative at all and it hink if people had taken her up on the plan she would have done it

pedit the actual plan doesn't matter, the point is she thinks it does and she's willing to selfvote over it
i dont' tget the plan either but that's not the point

[skitter30]

I've used self-voting as a ploy to get townread a lot of times so uh I'm usually unconvinced by such tricks because towns rarely ever take people up on plans that involving self voting

it feels sincere to me and i think you're tunneled
i also don't think she's the sort of player to rely on that sort of ate
and i don't think you were even pushing her that hard yet, why would she resort to that at that time but not like yesterday when i was hardpushing her+

[skitter30]

if the plan doesn't make sense, there's very little chance anyone actually takes her up on it because.....

it doesn't make sense

just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense

and anyways it dosn't matter if it makes sense or not, the point is that she thinks it does and i think she was being sincere in her offer

[skitter30]

ok so is there a reason why we can't just flip ss today?

[skitter30]

so posts like that are what i *would* call survivalistic

[skitter30]

She just hasn't ever made me feel like she isnt. Games been going a while I need some good content to not feel bad about you

Sry if this is not inspiring

I basically feel exactly this way abt her

[skitter30]

so posts like that are what i *would* call survivalistic

I don't think anyone is arguing that I'm not being survivalistic today?

My point is thay i think such behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

[skitter30]

Really? You think as town I would be gifted a vig and just lay down and die before I get a chance to use it?

- i think survivalism is a scumtrait
- it's not like you're being particularly clear or forthcoming on how you're planning on using it or anything

[skitter30]

I'm not going to consider executing someone with a gun today. I'm not executing Tetrina, I'm obviously not executing Cephrir, that leaves {skitter, Galron, ssbm}. I don't have especially strong feelings on any of them, it having been made abundantly clear that my reads yesterday were not good.

Between the three of them I would probably pick skitter because it would explain the lack of solidity of reads in general and she really doesn't seem to be trying to sort me today (or even listen to me)

.

I'm expecting tonight to sort everything out. I'm also expecting to get shot tonight so I don't really think I'll have to deal with it.

uh i think at this point my reads are fairly clear + i also think i've sorted you already, what new info am i gtting today exactly

[skitter30]

ok the more important part of that post was the second point, namely you're not really being very clear what you're planning on doing tonight, and at least for me if your entire point is that you should not get flipped so that you can use the gun, it's important to know who youw ant to use it *on*

also survivalism is actually a p good scumtell, i've had quite a lot of success with it

[skitter30]

like what do you think i'm not considering here

[skitter30]

- that given the above, there is mechanically no upside to executing someone with a gun

because you lose a town-controlled kill if they are town; it's only downside

ok, the bolded is true *if the assumption that the gunners are town* holds, which is not at all obvious to me
if you're scum you just get another kill tongiht, and that's a very big downside to my pov

and again i'm kinda interested in the bit where you explain *what you want to do with the gun* even

[skitter30]

I also kinda tried to survivalism-read someone recently to not-great results

i've had success with it

but whatever let's move on to the fact that ss wants to be alive to shoot someone but isn't elaborating on who or what he wants to do wiht it

[skitter30]

ok, the bolded is true *if the assumption that the gunners are town* holds, which is not at all obvious to me
if you're scum you just get another kill tongiht, and that's a very big downside to my pov

No it doesn't! If we execute a scum with a gun, assuming exactly one scum dies overnight (that's the only way the game continues), then it goes down to 3:1. If we instead executed a player without a gun, that scum with a gun would get to shoot (and would presumably also be shot), so it would instead go to 2:1, with one more trusted townie dead. Dayplay-wise, there might be a small difference here, but realistically I think the game will probably be solvable in mylo regardless. But mechanically, there is no difference between the two.

That's the crux of the argument. As long as the trusted people make their reads clear, then having one of them die overnight isn't really a big loss-- but executing a townie with a gun is a huge loss.

? if we execute scum with a gun, and one scum dies overnight, the game just ends, i don't follow

--
if we execute scum with a gun, and don't kill a scum overnight, it's 3:1
if we execute town with a gun, and kill a scum overnight, it's 3:1

if we execute town without gun, it's 2:1 tomorrow

it's not at all obvious to me why the last world is substantially better than either of the first 2

[skitter30]

You were just recently scum with me. Is that at all what I did?

can i just point out that responses like these just divert away from the questions that were actually asked ....

S_S I feel like one thing that points to you being scum is your sheer unwillingness to take real stances
gth (near literally), what's your solve/PoE?

like the above is a diversion away from actually answering this question ...

[skitter30]

it's not at all obvious to me why the last world is substantially better than either of the first 2

[skitter30]

if we execute scum with a gun, and don't kill a scum overnight, it's 3:1
if we execute town with a gun, and kill a scum overnight, it's 3:1

The difference here is that say we have a townbloc of 4. Execute scum with a gun, scum kills a town in the bloc, the rest of the shots are outside the bloc and miss. 3 townbloc members alive D4, which is 100% assuming the bloc is right.
Whereas if we execute town with a gun, scum kills two townies in the bloc, and now it's 3:1 but with only two of them alive, which is 50%.
And if we execute town without a gun, then scum kills two townies in the bloc and one shot hits, now it's 2:1 with the two being bloc members, once again 100%.

Repeat this with a bloc of 3 and you get 50% - 33% - 50%, same deal. If we hit exactly one scum between today and tonight, mechanically, there's no advantage to hitting them during the day, even if they have a gun. Whereas there is a disadvantage to hitting a townie with a gun.

Does that make sense?

- for the first sentence, you're assuming only 1 scum has a gun. which, tbf, i think is likely, but i don't think ti's mechanically guaranteed and basing plans on that is ? questionable to me.
- we're also assuming we have an accurate townbloc, but there isn't, like, a consensus townbloc rn
- we're also bankign the game on the townbloc, which i'm not confident i am wiling to do rn
- if this logic depends on forming an accurate townbloc, why are you not trying to do so ? like this whole mechanical reasoning is predicated on a townbloc that we don't have that you aren't trying to craete (and i'm putting the onus on you since this is your reasoning for how we ought to play the day and why you oughtn't be flipped today)
- also from my pov i don't know that you *aren't* scum with a gun (vs town with a gun), so arguing that from my pov it's better not to flip you is questionable to me, as i'm currently scurmeading you .... like it's only better not to flip you if you're actually town, but you're not showin gme why you're town, only arguign that *if* you are, we shouldn't flip you

[skitter30]

i kinda already did and i still want to flip ss today

[skitter30]

ugh i'm feeling really confused and wondering if i'm tunneled but idk how to get everything to make sense if ss isn't scum rn >.>

[skitter30]

ss it was not at all obvious to me that you were ok with getting flipped tonight. in which case i'm probably ok with you being double-tapped tonight instead of getting flipped today, but if you don't get shot overnight you'd have to be the consensus flipp tom. i really, really don't want your slot to endgame, and i'm a little dubious in entrusting that to shots that i don't really have a sy in / can't control
also what do you think about having everyone with a gun just shooting the same person
also for all i know you're scum lying abt having a gun for this exact reason

@pooky i want to add ydra to that and take out kyouko
and possibly add galron

[skitter30]

Who do I need to vote to get Galron shot by one of the vigs? And what does that person have to flip?

VOTE: something_smart

i don't get how people are scumreading galron >.>

and yeah i'm kinda concerned by ydra rn

[skitter30]

ss/ydra ...

[skitter30]

I mean it is the weekend

also sure, i do that too
but like she was posting elsewhere and she was obviously following enough here so

pedit i dont know if that's necessarily a bad thing?

[skitter30]

i might even be ok with everyone holstering cuz this gun thing feels like a trap somehow

i mean i thought everyone said it was compulsive >.>
taht would be my ideal outcome tho

[skitter30]

how is it 'following enough here'

i see people asking where im at / worrying, i decide that i shouldn't let my emotions from yesterday keep me from at least stopping in

and then that's beetlejuicing? are you all dumb?

i feel a little bad pointing this out so i'm gonna drop this now
sorry if i upset you

[skitter30]

ugh i have another thought abt ydra but i'm worried it's a little mean so i'm not sure if i should say it or not

[skitter30]

yeah i think i'm not going to >.>

[skitter30]

i don't get how people are scumreading galron >.>

You did not just townread Galron for seemingly being okay with being shot while I've been effectively trying to get myself shot for multiple days now.

again if you've been trying to get yourself shot for multiple days now this was not at all obvious

[skitter30]

and why is galron literally advocating to get himself shot again?

also i'm kinda objecting to the notion that i'm 'completely refusing to engage' with your points

[skitter30]

she had a private PT with him and was advocating for flipping someone else, why would the fact that she's a PR matter?
or more specifically, why would the fact that she has *that* pr matter to scum's nk calculations

[skitter30]

and why is galron literally advocating to get himself shot again?

Why am I?

you weren't until like 20 minutes ago
if you were before that, once again, it ws not at all obvious

[skitter30]

ok 4 hours ago, pardon me

[skitter30]

also galron is literally advocating for a plan where a key part of it is him dying
you're more saying 'i expect i'm going to die tonight' which isn't the same thing, and you ahve not been actively advocating for yourself to die

i don't think it's the same thing at all

[skitter30]

actually i don't like my tone tonight and i think i'm being too heated and snippy
gonna take a break now, night all

[skitter30]

All the other gunners could have asked about this themselves and found out about the lie, but either they knew and didn’t let on, or just took my word for it. My base inclination is to think scum with guns would have double checked my claim, so this IMO points to both scum being outside the gunners.

oh! good to know

[skitter30]

It's the best play. Everyone with a gun shoots me.

ah sorry, i understood what you meant - that quesion was facetious. i was indicating that scum wouldn't try to get themselves killed, but the fact that you have been is very +town for you

[skitter30]

I mean the notification PM makes it quite clear this is not automatic one shot vig territory

i thought that's basically what you guys are

[skitter30]

and she just mostly laughs at me and goes "rofl not this shit again"

:)

[skitter30]

ok i don't really have anything else to add
still want ss/ydra to die

if there's scum in people without guns i don't know who it is tbh

pedit i am fondly remembering some fun games :)

[skitter30]

still want ss/ydra to die

what is their operating plan in this scenario? Pooky pointed out Ydrassse is a deep wolf and I'm inclined to think that's more or less true, so unless her buddy is in a better position than her (which S_S most definitely isn't) I'd expect there to be a real effort from her to shape the gamestate
this is basically how Prism read me in the coalition game where I hydra'd with cheekyteeky, but with a bit more depth to the concept imo

i've no idea but these are the 2 people i have no reason to townread at this time

[skitter30]

also ydra makes sense as a deepwolf

[skitter30]

thats e1
UNVOTE:
literally only because i don't think the night is sorted yet

[skitter30]

ydra i'm sorry for upsetting you
and i'm not trying to

and i don't really know how to say my suspciions without upsetting you
and i don't know how to get them assuaged either

[skitter30]

ig i feel like i'm saying something that's fairly normal in a game of mafia (i suspect you) and 2 days in a row irl immediately thereafter you come in with a really emotional ate about how you hate being suspected and how we should just flip you and it's a ... very outsize reaction to what i said and i don't really know how to engage with it without really perpetuating whatever cycle is causign that reaction

but like what you're saying isn't helping so i'm still stuck with the same suspicions i had to begin with but i don't really know what i can do about them

[skitter30]

like for me i'm feeling kinda sus of you and the things that you're saying are not things i can sort or do anything about so each time i think about your slot i'm like 'oh yeah i'm still sus of her' and if you're town idk how to move beyond that with what's currently in thread

[skitter30]

i don't know if i particularly think you're scum with ss so much as i'm running out of people to suspect and my reasons to townread you arent' as strong as to townread other people, and if you're town i'm kinda stuck and confused about where scum is

but i do think that your eod1 does look partner-y, also at that point it was p clear that it was gonna be ss or enchant, if you're scum with both i dont' think you could have tried to vote elsewhere at that point

i think those 2 posts are probably twonie but i'm really susceptible to ate which makes me a little wary :(
and i guess i'm a little worried in that you're saying you wouldn't want to like 'waste' being set up well as scum here, but like idk there's a p big dropoff from where you were day1 and where you are now and it honestly might not be AI and it might not be something you can control here ?

also i'm sorry about irl and i hope things get better soon <3

[skitter30]

<3 thank you truly and, idk

if you think im partners /with/ ss at least go through the motions of daeling with him first if me being scum is contingent on him being scum

<3

(and tbf i've been voting him most of this phase ...)

[skitter30]

why did you like the SS wagon formation more?

i was strongly scumreading infinity and strongly townreading tetrina, and iirc was townreading ceph and ssbm (or at least was netural on them enough that it counterbalanced the infintiy read)

[skitter30]

Okay so I've determined two things: skitter and SS don't make sense as partners, and skitter's d1 play seems pretty likely to be from an Enchant partner

ok if i'm town do u vote ss?

[skitter30]

idk if i can *treat* you like flipped town but i can run that thought experiment, sure

- gamma/tetrina doesn't change (but owuld probably be slightly more paranoid of gamma)
- pooky probably drops down a notch but would still be high enough that if there were like 7 players alive (i.e. imagine we're in a normal day4) i wouldn't want to vote him
- ceph i'm still kinda undecided on reads-wise but i'd doubt the veracity of the fn result more
- would look at galron/ssbm quite a lot more
- still sus of ss

basically you being town means i'm wrong on galron/ssbm i think

[skitter30]

i'm still having a really hard time with scum-galron, for a few reasons:
- literally advocating for a plan where he dies today
- why does he kill rousseau when he's in a pt with her and they're vibing well-
- if scum but not with ss, bizarre to pump the brakes on the growing ss wagon eod yesterday
- if scum with ss, the sequence of 1821 - 1827 is bizarre coming from a partner
- general townie tone
- when he was in imminently danger of being flipped he really cared abt making sure his reads were out, and cared abt that much more than he cared abt not getting flipped (613 + 619 for example)
- getting the vibe he's the designated misflip

honestly i kinda like what ssbm is saying but like my reasons for townreding her are way weaker, she should probably be in her own tier above ss

[skitter30]

Ssbm what do u think of my points on galron above

[skitter30]

Galron is gonna flip town and i really, really, really dont want him flipped today

I am becomong increasingly more suspicious for ssbm for this push, ehicu i think is bad, and i think she's willfully ignoring the +++townie ppoints i made wrt galron because it supports her narrative

I'll be around more later

[skitter30]

This is like such a bad flip

[skitter30]

I dont think a wagon with this much long-term resistance can possibly be on town either. At some point scum are going to take the mislim if Galron is town.

Well i'm creating a lot od the resistance and i'n town so this doesnf hold much water for me

Pedit - i would not
- you're scumreading me for not voting enchant when you were townreading me for that exact thing earlier
- the logic that you were using yo townread enchant (she wouldnt defend a partner like that!!!) is now what you're using to oush me

Anyways work now, so later

[skitter30]

- the logic that you were using yo townread enchant (she wouldnt defend a partner like that!!!) is now what you're using to oush me

You were townreading me earlier for hard-defending enchant and being unlikely to stick my nexk out for a buddy, and you're now scumreading me for hard-defending proposed partner galron

My current solve is ssbm/ss and we really, really, really shouldnt flip galron today

[skitter30]

I dont even have words to describe how *frustrated* i was by that eod

Gamma is probably town, but i'm sus of thr rest of you
Will probably vote ssbm tho

Ceph this is why sending the fn result to ss was such an incredibly bad idea

[skitter30]

Good

[skitter30]

Ydra who'd you shoot

The day also should not have ended before planning where people were shooting

[skitter30]

Whyyyyyyyyy did you take that shot

Just

[skitter30]

Ss was obviously scum after the hammer and pooky was absolved if ss was scum

Ydra coming into today i almost wanted to clear you but that shot was so, uh, not good just

Also @gamma i'm p sure tetrina was the scum kill and pooky shot ss

Dont think scum killed pooky so ur logic is faulty

[skitter30]

@Ydra, Gamma, Skitter: if one of you 3 is scum and you flip me today you will have to deal with Cephrir's FN claim in ELO. Up to you, but mechanically this is ideal. I'm confident in my ELO play if scum try to leave me alive for WIFOM

You're never dying tonight, and this fn thing to ss smells really fishy

I literally trust none of ceph, ssbm, or ydra rn

[skitter30]

I would assume pooky would have shot me but maybe the S_S hammer changed his mind. Maybe his gun misfired or something

P sure he shot ss

[skitter30]

Ss was obviously scum after the hammer and pooky was absolved if ss was scum

Ydra coming into today i almost wanted to clear you but that shot was so, uh, not good just

Also @gamma i'm p sure tetrina was the scum kill and pooky shot ss

Dont think scum killed pooky so ur logic is faulty

unless S_S just didn't have a gun (which is possible) scum had 2 shots to work with

I think ss was lying abt having a gun, and they just had a factional kill

[skitter30]

Pooky was always gonna shoot ss last night so we were going to have an ss flip to work with today. And if ss happened to flip town we could have dealt with pooky today

The shots should uave all been like ss/ssbm/ceph

Pedit of the 3 i trust ydra the most but the pooku shot is really hard for me to swallow coming from town

[skitter30]

Ssbm you need to explain why exactly you were so gungho abt galron yesterday

[skitter30]

Also the tetrina shot points to scum in ssbm/ceph - scum were scared of showing up with a gun when they didnt claim one, it looks like

No other reason to kill her really

[skitter30]

I mean yes but i dont think any of u actualky suspect me rn so the point is kinda moot

[skitter30]

If i were scum i dont kill her unless i'm exactly worried aby her guilting me

[skitter30]

You're not dead so either he didnt shoot u or scum interfered somehow. We already know where one of the 2 possible scum actions went, they could only do 1 more

I do think he would have shot ss over u tho

[skitter30]

Ssbm you need to explain why exactly you were so gungho abt galron yesterday

I thought he was scum with S_S or Pooky

- why not vote ss, whom you've been fairly reluctant to vote all game
- i feel like you were handwaving away +townie points for galron cuz you wanted to flip him

[skitter30]

Eod1 voting for like all of ceph/ssbm/ydra are really fishy tbh

Ssbm's prob the worse tho

Also i think everyone except u and gamma claimed, specifically we all claimed vt

[skitter30]

Uh gamma's already voting u, isnt that a hammer ...

Why did you do that ....

[skitter30]

Uh gamma's already voting u, isnt that a hammer ...

Why did you do that ....

[skitter30]

If you're town i'm just kinda exasperated at this point

[skitter30]

Either way if it doesnt end scum's in ydra or ceph

[skitter30]

oh

well

hope i'm right then

I mean i hope so too

[skitter30]

This is a comedy of errors at this point

[skitter30]

If this doesnt end can we all at least do fast night

[skitter30]

VOTE: kyouko
pooky died over me for a reason I think

and yeah I sniped S_S with extreme prejudice after that hammer

I dont see an unvote

[skitter30]

And if you're scum fine but if you're town self-hammering is not so great

[skitter30]

Why, if the game isnt over i'm not amy closer to deciding between ydra and ceph, and would have actually liked to have used today

[skitter30]

So why did you not try to get him flipped today ... like

[skitter30]

I mean i tunneled ss all game, ya
Wasng convinced on u to and could have ended the day voting elsewhere for all i know

[skitter30]

Apparently

[skitter30]

Oh yeah this is a elo i'm totally looking forward to if alive

[skitter30]

Ok lets all maybe take a step back, i think we're all very frustrated but like name calling and insult slinging back and forth isnt super helpful

I have thoughts on who the final scum is tbh but i dont think helpfuk to say at this time

[skitter30]

Gamma can u ask for fast night if the game doesnt end plz

[skitter30]

i'm kinda in awe at how much of a mess this has been
but i don't think dwelling on it is gonna be helpful

i'm p sure i know where i want to vote today

[skitter30]

if you want, sure
tho i'm kinda de facto the decider here already and i'd be wary from your pov

[skitter30]

not hammering

[skitter30]

but ceph is who i'm strongly leaning here tho

[skitter30]

i mean i don't know why gamma died and i've been sus of both of you so that point kinda washes out
and i'm not super happy that i got left holding this bag here

i can go through why i'm leaning you over her but i'm also not sure that either of you actually wants to hear it

[skitter30]

his last stated suspeciion was scum in you/ssbm, and he was very resistant to the idea of ydra scum. honestly i dont' know why either of you left me alive but it makes less sense for her to have killed gamma than for you to have

and i would actaully listen to what you ahve to say if you wanted to try to convince me to vote ydra, but if you don't want to go through that process i'm not gonna force you


pedit that was @ceph
i'll write up a short paragraph explainign my thought process and if neither of you have anything to add at that point i'll vote

[skitter30]

- ceph is the only person to have claimed to have received anything from scum other than the guns; all the other gifts tie to shiki in some way

- he used that to get out of being eod2 wagon, and was later hedge-y if that was his only role/pr/gift

- the whole 'giving the FN to the consensus sr' is such poor judgement that i have a hard time understanding how that comes from town. like yeah it's a moot point because we can't trust it now, but if you had given it to someone who would reliably convey the results, you'd be conftown now. idk how you oversee that, you obviously knew ss was suspected, him reporting the result is meaningless, and the fact that you didn't recognize that baffles me

- everyone else (gamma, ydra) had a *very* emotional reaction to ssbm doing whatever the fuck they were doing, you didn't. you were just very like 'oh well too bad'. i think people without an emotional reaction there are more likely to be scum because holy fuck was that annoying and frustrating. honestly probably my strongest point in ydra's favor is the fact that she is quite clearly pissed

- defended ss all game for spurious reasons (note that ydra was actaully pushing him day2)

- as i said earlier, i think the fact that tetrina died pointed to scum in you/ssbm, because i don't think she was the obvious nk there at all, and i think she only dies if scum is worried she'll get a result on them different than what they claimed in thread. no reason to kill her for her reads or her like game presence, so that's the only reason i can think of that she died

- i still feel like the timing of your pirate game with pooky given the game context and the lack of your providing content at that time was scummy

- your vote on enchant eod1 was p weak, but honestly so was ydra's so i suppose this is a wash

in addition to what ive already posted i feel like generally speaking trying to get ss anyway is kind of a scum action here -- falling back on what we had yesterday. we have new information! use it! im not saying ss can't ever be scum but i can see that as the action of scum confronted with a shrinking lim pool & not sure who is safe to try and add to it

honestly this is just really, really, really bad in retrospect, esp. as you don't seem to have any reason to townread ss here other than the fact that he's a cw to flipped scum. you're like assuming ss is town and then calling others (me) scum for pushing him, when he was actually scum ...

- the one point that is in your favor r.e. ss/enchant is that i think you're supposed to have a good scumgame and i kinda think you'd make yourself look better when voting either, and the vote on enchant was just so meh

this isnt unreasonable i know but at some point i have to take into account superficially scummy behavior over selfmeta or scum can just do whatever they want

also just noting the irony of this

- the whole argument you had with me r.e. whether or not we should flip ss was just bad, esp. in retrospect, esp. sicne most of your points were strawmen and you kept backing down whenever i took apart your argument and when you tried to scumread me for it (~2808 and onwards)

- also i never really understood your galron scumread, and with how ss hammered i believe his partner was already involved in that wagon. honestly now that i think abt it i don't really understand the reasoning behidn any of your reads, they just kinda appear and you're stubborn about them but i don't know where they come from and tehy never change

- been on every single misflip wagon and staunchly opposed the ss wagon, and was incredibly ambivalent about the enchant wagon

- 3650 in retrospect kinda sounds like you deliberately chose to give guns to people who did not want to kill galron in order to create this narrative that galron is sus for nobody who wanted to kill him getting guns

[skitter30]

so much for a small paragraph

either way i suppose to do my due diligence i ought to read ydra too and double-check the vcs

but i think all that combined is not too great

[skitter30]

i'm gonna be honest i think i'm doing this more to make sure i'm satisfied with the decision than anything else
i think your response is more relevant than whatever you're gonna dig up on ydra tbh

but like if you don't want to that's fine, i'm still going to check ydra's iso and the vc's
but yeah that's where i'm at

[skitter30]

(i take elo very seriously)

[skitter30]

Like I'm fully aware that fence sitting will score me no points regardless of the outcome. I'm just being honest because I'm town.

fwiw i did notice this one too, thought abt commenting on it, but decided not to. it's either true or you are incredibly self-aware as scum, know what the 'right' thing to do is, and deliberately don't do it, and then try to get cred for it.

idk how to tell which and you-now-as-either-alignment can't give me a good response to this either, so bringing it up was kinda pointless

i'll also say that i was haphazardly following bork's game a bit and learned you were scum there some time last week and that's kinda when my townread on you dissipated because you have a much wider range than my initial impression; for the time i had been following unspoiled i thought you were town

pedit but yeah you both have really awful trajectories on the enchant/ss wagons so it's a wash to me, they're equally bad
and yeah i'm gonna iso her anyways. prob not tonight tho, will have to wait till saturday night due to vla

apologies for dragging it out for both of u

[skitter30]

for the time i had been following unspoiled i thought you were town

* i thoguht you were town in that game to be clear

[skitter30]

can you just explain *why* your read on ss was so strong exactly?
like why were you townreading, and why that strongly?

[skitter30]

much wider range than my initial impression

(aside irregardless of your alignemnt here this is a compliment, your play was super impressive in that game
and if you are scum here you're playing v well too)

[skitter30]

sure

and obvs you can't answer this but i wonder if u thought i was going to go for ydra today

and your point r.e. is tetrina is valid, or at least makes me think that if you had killed her you were not killing her for the reason i proposed, in which case it doesn't actually indict you cuz you don't seem to have been using that logic anyways

i appreciate you answering, idon't tknow if i have much else to ask rn, i will do ydra + vc's too and then i'll vote

[skitter30]

Ceph possibly a weird question, but how did you think i was gonna approach elo

[skitter30]

I did look at the vcs, one thing in ceph's favor is that day1 he was on the roden/house wagons p early

But, for the rest of thr game, he p staunchly avoided scumwagons, and wagoned everything else, while ydra was fairly consistently on ss for a lot of day2/day3

You did both end up on dgb, and ss did vote ceph while that wagon was talking off eod2

On balance i think ydra'a voting history is better

Also i still think the way ss hammered galron indicates that his partner was already onwagon

[skitter30]

Ydra iso will be tom night

[skitter30]

Yes that is true.

Or another way of saying that is that a vc review supports my prior thought. basically saying you avoided ss post eod1, ydra was trying to wagon him at various poiints

[skitter30]

Ok i'll take a look

[skitter30]

Oh you're right

[skitter30]

voted enchant because rodens final post spoke to me on a whim

i’d rather just vote out town and then say sorry i was indecisive on s_s and spare my partner another day because i could survive losing the cred

Ydra what does this post mean? Or could you like reword the second paragraph? I'm mot following it

[skitter30]

atp i agree

everyone else feels like town squabbling trying to find scum in townreads when it’s just ss + someone else

i know i said otherwise before but shrug emoji

VOTE: s_s

[skitter30]

Everyone seems resigned that SS is town and this will be a miz. So why aren't we flipping scum then.

this post feels... suspicious

like galron is treating us like we're dumb for voting s_s because he knows it's a wash already or something :<

VOTE: galron

...?

[skitter30]

can someone just shoot me tonight so there isn't a wasted miselim on me

[skitter30]

Oh hai ydra
Thanks

[skitter30]

i think it's grating to me because, to me, the only reason i should ever be suspected is after ss flips? like, i have no reason to do what i did d1 unless im scum with them both, genuinely, like. i could bus but i could get away with /not/ doing that too imo, say sorry im trying to pick someone i pick wrong, oh well. i'd probably do that so we wouldn't be down a teammember. i get if you think it's exactly ss and me but even then like... idk i think i already said i was sitting on ss most of the day before and my vote ended up being on the cc people

it's also just the fact that im not... doing anything, in a game where i invested some amount of effort. i dont always ~follow through~ but in a game like this i wouldnt want to waste being set up that well. i could like make up something about what i thought or whatever but i just don know and i feel like that is a hallmark of my towngame more than my scumgame which is just. fmpov its annoying and frustrating when i know these things i guess and then i see things like deepwolf when im going ?? and i dont know whos just saying it because they dont have options and whos trying to push me out

[skitter30]

yeah i thought you weren't going to be here this weekend lol

[skitter30]

i hope ur having a good weekend tho

[skitter30]

general ydra thoughts:
- how pissed she was at ssbm is +town imo. i know she's good at faking emotion but overall it felt real to me, especially since it's clear she didn't really want to be in the game anymore anyways.

- also just generally: i don't want to play anymore just vote me day4 so i'm done with it and so i'm not a liability in elo is +townie too. i suppose it's possible that scum-her was just, like, done after losing enchant + ss but idk *she* was still kinda in a good-ish place and i don't think she would be quasi-conceding there as scum. like i guess to me the emotion is either coming from 'town who's just done and doesn't want to be the game-ending mislfip', or 'scum who knows she's lost and just doesn't want to be forced to go through the motions and emotions of playing out the last 2 days'. but i think the former is more likely to produce the *emotional* reaction to ssbm

- was pretty persistantly trying to get ss out from like mid-day2. did end up on dgb at the end, but then, so did ceph iirc, but she has been trying to get ss flipped for most of the game and i don't know why she would do that as a partner

- jumping off of ss onto galron eod2 because 'galron sounds like he knows ss is going to flip town' or something isn't great and i think that was part of the ss wagon deflating. like i guess this could be scum-her's exit off of the ss to try to find some other flip now that town doesn't seem super interested in him, but honestly i think she could have done that well before. also she pretty persistenatly circled back to ss over the next few days

- the pooky shot was just inexplicably bad, about as bad as the FN to ss was to me. one of you is scum, one of you is town who played suboptimally, i think that both of these probably wash out, idk how to differentiate.

- i think 4215 + the convo thereabouts is probably townie? i was calling ss + ydra, ydra was annoyed that i was scumreading her at all, and telling me only to scumread her if ss indeed flips scum, which seems somewhat dangerous if he is indeed

[skitter30]

i thought i wasn’t either but everyone’s super drunk and i decided to read

it’s decent enough tho and i hope urs is too !!

thanks!

[skitter30]

i guess to me what it basically boils down to is if ceph's treatment of the ss slot throughout the game is more or less likely to come form scum than town
and i'm leaning towards the former

it is possible that he had such a good townread on ss that he utterly refused to wagon him
but i don't think ceph's justification for the read is strong enough to explain how adamantly he refused to wagon him and how he pursued just about every other option, and i think the fact taht he was on every misflip is telling

idk that's where i'm at. ceph if you've got anything else to say lmk, otherwise i'll vote

[skitter30]

Tbf you did also refuse to compromise on ss when he was a leading wagon eod2

You didnt have such a strong scumread kn dgb as far as i recall, and ssbm selfdestructed in response to you voting her, not prior to it, so that isnt really a justification for voting her imo

And my issue i suppose is less that you were on all the wrong wagons, but rather more broadly that your reads were just consistently wrong post eod1 for basically the whole game

And yeah the other issue for me is that i dont get the strength on the ss tr

[skitter30]

does town-you usually have such bad reads? or can you like give me an example of a game where town-you was consistently just wrong for most of the game/

[skitter30]

ok i guess i'm more just asking if offhand if you have an example of all your reads being wrong as town

[skitter30]

ugh i hate having to decide in elo >.>

also happy bday tweetie

[skitter30]

Ok i thought i was maybe going yo look at some of ur towngames but it looks like u mostly play large themes so that's not gonna happen

[skitter30]

Ugh

[skitter30]

Half of which seem to be alt accounts too

[skitter30]

anyway if we are going to discuss a final townblock to end all townblocks, i have to think the least controversial entry would be tetrina, right?

i would also advocate for kyouko and gamma.

You were townreading ssbm here >.>

[skitter30]

so i think the gunners must have been specifically chosen for specific reasons. i don't know how much wifom scum might have baked in here. if the scum caller is responsible, i'd expect they would not even think of wifom and would play it completely straight targeting townies who suspect townies. if not, idk. if they're playing it straight and pooky is town, they want him to shoot SS. if they're playing it straight and SS is town, it's because his readlist is fucking upside down so it's their best shot at getting obvtown. the purpose of the other picks would be less obvious to me.

but either way, i find it remarkably suspicious that neither kyouko nor i received a gun. i feel like almost any scumteam would choose at least one of us, particularly kyouko imo as she doesn't come off as an overthinker to me, except for one with a certain agenda.

VOTE: galron

Ssbm was not a major scumread of urs ...

[skitter30]

If its ydra i dont think i'm getting there, there's a few too many small things that make me think town

Hope this is right

VOTE: ceph

[skitter30]

Someone lmk if i got it right

[skitter30]

Phew
(Plz dont be trolling me >.>)

[skitter30]

Ig ceph i am kinda curious why you defended ss so strongly, i assume there was some kind of plan?

I'm assuming the fn was ss's idea too

[skitter30]

And why you killed gamma last night

[skitter30]

:)

[skitter30]

Ahhhhhh that was stressful

Gg everyone, thanks tweetie for modding :)

[skitter30]

^

[skitter30]

Yeah i actually found a tmi bit from you this morning that kinda imploed there was exactly 1 scum gun, anf that's what finally tipped it over for me

Also good job ss and ceph, trucking on even tho it looked dire at times

[skitter30]

Were you guys told abt the guns in advance? Like day1 or whatever?

[skitter30]

Locke, Monarch, and Fleet (All friends of mine who more or less have no idea how to play mafia) had to vote for who the scum-aligned caller was on N3. All missed, it was Maple (another newbie).

Shutterbug (/Dice) were controlled by me and had no alignment. They were added to the setup solely for flavour, to more directly assist the newbies, and make scum newb's job a little easier.

Hope to see you guys arounf again!

And shutterbug/dice was so much fun :)

[skitter30]

Ah thanks tweetie. Really cool setup

[skitter30]

Also @ss @ceph
Why did u guys decide to do the fn thing

[skitter30]

Ceph you played really well here and i think in a slightly diffefent elo configuration you probably pull it out

And ss did good dragging it out as much as he did

And thanks @ss for explaining