Mini 660 - Star Trek: DS9 Mafia (Ruined = Over)

[M4yhem]

Hi Timeater!

Hello Farside, Hello Liam, Hello people I haven't played with yet but will probably like.

I've been reading. I was going to say something about Jebus, but that's obviously redundant now. I didn't like Zoneace's early play but since a scum with a day-kill seems really, really unlikely, it's obvious I was wrong there.

Timeater- I find your obsession with claims a little worrying. You spend more time discussing claims than you do scumhunting. It seems to me that the more we talk about claims early on, the more information about what they can safely claim the scum get. Also, it gives scum information based on how people react to help look for the cop or the doc.
So you get a

fos

and a 'please stop talking about possible claims now' from me.

I'm not convinced by the case on CallMeLiam. It seems to be based on the fact he was talking about the possibility of there being shape-shifters on board. Well, I have no reason to think he's wrong, so I don't see the problem with what he said. I've seen scum who can look like town roles in theme game before. (Sylar in heroes smalltown, for instance.)

I'm going to

Vote:sekinj

for this post:

It looks like Jebus is the only play anyone is willing to make today. I agree that the game will be better without him whether or not he is scum (which I am unsure about).

Unvote, Vote: Jebus

I don't like this vote on what we know now was a protown player for two reasons-
1. Just because someone is 'the play' doesn't make them scum. You still need a proper reason to vote them. Also, just because the rest of the town is focused on one player doesn't make it impossible to scum-hunt elsewhere. This just seems lazy to me.

2. The 'whether or not he's scum' seems like a pre-emptive attempt to justify the vote if Jebus flips town. I don't like that. If you think there's a good possibilty someone will flip town, you don't vote for them. Well, I don't anyway- not when I'm town.

[M4yhem]

Not as far as I can tell, no.

It's all very well saying you're confident, Timeater. Personally, I try to sssume the scum are at least as smart (or dumb) as me. Also, for all we know you might be scum, so saying 'trust me' isn't all that reassuring.

I agree that Quark isn't a servant of the dominion. (I wouldn't call him a good guy, more 'morally grey' but he's clearly loyal to the federation.)

[M4yhem]

first of all @m4y: you can look at the post all you want in hind-sight and be as self righteous as you want, but personally, If my vote is doing nothing, I will probably move it to another candidate in order to progress the game. Or shoudl I have just lurked and added nothing substantial?

I wasn’t being ‘self-righteous’ actually- once a townie dies I always go back and look who voted for them (and why) even if I was on their bandwagon myself.

The main problem with you saying you were trying to progress the game is this- you weren’t under deadline, conversation hadn’t exactly stalled and it was pretty early in the day; I don’t feel like you

needed

to vote for Jebus, who was already under pressure.
If you really didn’t think Jebus was scum, you didn’t have to either lurk or bandwagon- you could have tried to change the focus of the game by asking people questions, doing analysis of other players, pointing out the case against your own choice for lynch again; instead, you chose the path of least resistance.

Also you said, "I've seen scum who can look like town roles in theme game before." I want to add that it is a possibility to also have town roles that look like scum.

You mean like millers? Yeah, I’ve heard of those too.

By my logic, the fact that I am Quark is worthless information and as such I have no problem whatsoever in just stating it.

See, I don’t agree here. If you’re town, the scum can try to work out your role from your character name, which helps them find the roles that are most dangerous to them. I don’t think anyone should claim unless they absolutely have to.

Farside- I can’t really defend 148 since I have no idea what my predecessor was thinking. However, I will try to provide my opinion on everything from now on, to compensate.

[M4yhem]

Again, I must point out that you were not playing the game at the time. Maybe you can look at the date stamps and determine that YOU would not have been restless, but we really can't ever know that, since you were not playing. As it is you can pass judgement on my play and paint it to look like I was following, which is not the case at all. In MY estimation conversation HAD stalled. So I moved my vote to my second suspect. how scummy is that? your right, maybe I should have just re-posted my time case.

Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid.

I think it's quite scummy, actually, especially since both your suspects just 'happened to be' people that were already being voted for and under much suspicion. You say you weren't following- I don't believe you.

Yeah, I definitely think this is a good point. Bandwagons serve a very useful purpose, especially in the early game to get reactions and responses. When someone looks scummy, I don't think you need to invent new targets just to avoid the label of "following." I think that will show up over time as a tell in itself, which is useful in itself. But getting on a bandwagon day 1 to get some action going is hardly awful in itself.

I never said you should invent new targets.

Fos:

frelaras for misrepresenting me. What I said was, if you think the target everyone is talking about isn’t scum, you should look elsewhere, even if nobody follows you. Town should never vote for someone they don’t think is scum. sekinj was already making excuses for why lynching jebus was a good thing even if he came up town when she voted him- it’s this I objected to; if she thought there was a good chance jebus was town, she shouldn’t have voted for him at all.

Personally I think suspect lists are a bad idea.

What? Why?

Is it wrong of me to metagame thinking that Mana and Pie would not asked to be replaced if they were scum? (not the two people I mentioned)

It’s dangerous. Some people can’t stand being scum and everyone gets bored with mafia/gets busy at school/work/whatever/loses access to the internet once in a while.

Honestly, I’d rather be cleared based on my play than on assumptions like this.

[M4yhem]

Lately... I have been looking at two people a bit more closely, but mentioning who and what not could be a bad thing. It will take a bit of time.

Why would sharing your suspects be a bad thing? Taken a vow of secrecy, or something?

(Yes, I'm impatient. Deal with it.)

[M4yhem]

This games a little slower than my others.

How does everyone feel about a sekinj lynch?

[M4yhem]

Seems to be setting up suspicion on several players in his Post 0.

That’s what you do when you scumhunt, you tell people who you are suspicious of and why. I know you know this, since you just produced your own list.

I could just as easily say you are ‘setting up a lynch’ on Frelaras and then on me if he flips scum.

on Liam, he sets it up so he can go either way.

I don’t agree. I was against the bandwagon on Liam and I made that clear.

Also, his case on me is started with one post regarding jebus? Seems like there are much better cases out there.

One slip up by scum is usually all you get and it’s all I need to suspect you. As for ‘better cases’, well, you would say that, wouldn’t you?

I think there is a frelaras/mayhem scum team based on the coaching and distancing seen in fre’s posts 4 and 14.

Mana asked a question and Frelaras answered it. I don’t call that coaching, I call that a complete non-event. Answering questions isn’t scummy, it’s polite.

As for the distancing...whatever. He disagreed with me. People disagree all the time, it doesn’t make them buddies.

It seems like you are really stretching to link me with someone at least one other person finds suspicious.

Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.

Because it requires me to mind-read. I don’t know what was going on in Mana-kun’s mind, I only know her role and there is nothing in her role to prevent her posting content.

M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)

And? I explained my reasoning; I don’t think it’s wise to assume replacements are cleared just because they are replacements.
I don’t think I said anything about metas. Personally, I have nothing against metahunting.

Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)

Did you ever explain why you are withholding them? Because it still seems scummy to me. I don’t see why the town benefits from you hiding what you think, and it seems like it could be a setup- for example, if you see a bandwagon you want to join, you could just say ‘oh yeah, that guy has been one of my suspects for ages’ and noone could contradict you.

Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Give me a break. At least I posted that day.

I don’t like how quickly you agreed with Sekinj, how wishy-washy your post was, or how you are trying to set me up if Frelasa flips scum.

Fos:Lightkun

for that reason.

It irritates me when female players bring attention to the fact that they're female. Its like so what? Sorry the male-tense means basically the same thing as a universal-tense ( e.g first man on the moon, etc). Does you being a pretty pink little girlie girl have anything to do about anything related to mafia? No, it doesn't. *rage*

Wow, that’s kind of insensitive. People’s gender happens to be a big piece of their identity, of course they’re going to want you to get it right. And ‘basically the same’ is not the same as ‘exactly the same’- besides which, lots of feminist have a problem with the idea of the male-tense being considered the universal one.

Yes, I know, completely off topic. I’ll shut up now.

[M4yhem]

Any response to my post, sekinj?

[M4yhem]

except I focused instead of spreading blame

I mentioned three people in my first post, only two of which were suspects. You're blatently making stuff up here.

in post 0 you didn't. you set it up so you could at least come back later and say you were supicious.

Wrong. I said I wasn't convinced by the bandwagon and that Liam's speculation was justified. That puts me clearly in the 'against lynching Liam' category.

yes I would, because it's true.

When I came in, most people, including you, were voting for Liam. Is that the ‘better case’ I was supposed to focus on? Sorry, but I don’t just follow the town around, like you, I have my own opinions. I still think someone voting for a townie for incredibly weak reasons is a good bet for scum; it’s certainly better than any cases you have made.

I think it looks like coaching a scum buddy.

Think what you like, it won’t change the facts.

It looked like distancing instead of just regular disagreeing.

What makes it look like distancing rather than regular disagreeing?

You would say that woudln't you, but you'd be wrong.

I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the person who attacks you is the one you choose to link to Farside’s suspect.

do I need to comment on this too?

No. For future reference, if I quote other people, or address them by name, I’m talking to them and you don’t need to answer.

[M4yhem]

Yet you are trying to mind-read me, even after I told you my intentions you just blatantly ignored that. I'm not saying you should trust my version because I say so, I'm saying that if you can't mind read Man, whose role you took over, what makes you think you knew all about what was happening with my comments?

I don’t have a response, but if I did, it might be similar to Sekinj here...

Okay.

I can do it with you because I have to, there’s no other way to win the game. Besides which, I have your behaviour to go on.
I guess if I absolutely have to I can guess at what motivated Man, but I think it would be more useful for people to ask me questions and get a feel for my stance on the game rather than ask me to explain the thoughts of someone I have no connection with. That’s really what I meant with my comment to Farside; that any explanation would be a guess at best and it would be more helpful to quiz me about the here and now.

Even if meta does not apply to you, it may apply to your predecessors. *Shrugs* I don’t put faith in meta, but your reaction seemed like a flinch

A flinch? The comment that started all this was a question about whether replacements were

less

likely to be scum. I wouldn’t flinch from that, as scum, I’d be applauding.

Actually, I didn’t have much opinion on who is scum, with the possible exception of Liam, but he was losing suspicion from me fairly quickly.

So wait...you don’t actually have any suspects at all, even though you said you did, but didn’t want to reveal them?

Posting everyday when you cannot add nothing is not necessary. Far from it.

I didn’t add nothing, I asked a question (which noone bothered with except my suspect, but whatever.)

(Your loss of suspicion form me is due, in large part, due to your reactions when accused, but these will be useful later in the game.)

Fine, but I still dislike the interaction between you and Sekinj. Especially since you are going after Liam, who is voting for Sek. The fos remains.

Ooba- I don’t have a firstborn (yet) want a cookie? We’re waiting for those thoughts...

[It's not so much the listing of whom you suspect, but the fact that listing the suspects also gives away whom you

don't

suspect. Listing anything more than the top two suspects on day one is not helpful.

Nobody asked Light-kun for a comprehensive rundown of all the players but if he says he has suspects but won’t talk about them, that raises eyebrows.

So, I watched the end of ds9. I Bawww'd. Especially during the flashback montage.

Why Odo why ;_;

DON’T POST SPOILERS!

*starts wondering what happened to Odo*

I agree with your latest post though.

[M4yhem]

True, and you are right about how it started. I misread and utterly ****ed up on comprehension. I thought they were speculating on whether either of your predecessors were more likely to skip out on a town role or scum role. Sorry for my confusion.

Fair enough. I guess I can believe that.

Yes, I lied. Between the game speculation, and the death of someone I thought was scum, I don't have a major suspect.

It really isn’t protown to lie.

However, Liam's post made me want to look into Sekinj. I may suspect him after a reread of his posts.

That seems a little convenient for my tastes; one minute you suspect Liam, the next you’re thinking of voting his suspect.

I am not pursuing Liam, reread my last post. (and several posts before then.) I voted Liam because he voted with little/crappy *demonstrated* logic.

Yeah alright, you unvoted, that doesn’t mean you never voted him in the first place.

Maybe that didn't need to be lied about.

It really, really didn’t.

Where’d everyone go?

[M4yhem]

You can't just say 'get over it' Light-kun. You lied, which is anti-town. Maybe if you explained why the heck you thought you needed to lie about something so trivial, I would understand, but at the moment it seems extremly scummy.

[M4yhem]

Is that a lynch?

Even if it isn't, I have to say I don't buy the claim at all. Doc is

the

classic claim for scum hanging at the end of a rope because usually noone dares lynch a claimed doc and a real doc won't counterclaim. Also, I've never heard of Damar; from what Timeater says, he wasn't on the station which is totally dodgy and if I had to guess who the doc was, there are other, more likely characters.

So, if Senkinj isn't dead, somebody hammer.

[M4yhem]

I also find it difficult to understand why you would do it this way- it's like you're checking to see how we'd react to a claim and I don't like that.

Jack of all trades makes some sense for Garak- he is quite versatile. Personally, I would have expected him to be a pure information gathering role; but CDB doesn't seem to be going with the expected, so I could buy this too.

As for lynching the person you investigated, it depends who it is, how they react to being questioned and what kind of claim they have. Obviously, I'd be very sauspicious indeed of anyone you got a guilty on.

[M4yhem]

I'm Jake Sisko. I'm guessing Garak is paranoid then, I can't see why he would lie about targeting me. It makes sense both flavor and balance wise, especially if Timeeater is also some sort of cop, which he seems to be implying.

[M4yhem]

Yes, I am.

[M4yhem]

Vote:M4yhem

So long, suckers.

[M4yhem]

Not at all...I'm just late for an appointment in the next life.

Those castles don't haunt themselves, you know!