Mini 670-Kirby Mafia OVER!

[Microphone_Kirby]

Vote: wolframnhart

for having never played Kirby before. If you're a gamer and like platformers, you really should.

Yeah! Kirby games are awesome!!! Why haven't you played Kirby games before!?!?!

[Microphone_Kirby]

Also @Microphone_Kirby: Did you forget to random vote? And are you at Mike level 1, 2, or 3?

No, I didn't forget. I decided

not

to random vote.
And Level 1, thank you very much.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Yes, Mike is an ability in a few Kirby games. Three uses, increasingly powerful - the first is a megaphone, the second is a desk mike, the third is a rock-concert standing mike. [/geek]

A favorite ability of mine (if it wasn't obvious already ), along with Sword.

Nevertheless, I don't know if I should really trust anyone with

Kristoph Gavin

as their avatar...

*looks at Ozyman's avatar*
Cute!!! ^_^

[Microphone_Kirby]

Nevertheless, I don't know if I should really trust anyone with

Kristoph Gavin

as their avatar...

You're the first person in four games to recognize K. Gavin. (seriously, best character in AJ)
But I choose my avatars based on whoever comes to mind first when it's time to change them. I'm thinking my next one should be Reisen Inaba or Queen Zeal.

I don't know if I'm the first to notice, but it seems like I'm the first to point it out...
No worries though; I don't lynch based on avatars alone, because if I did Ozyman would never be lynched, no matter how scummy he looked.

I have no mouth.
I have no claws.
I'm apparently only two sprites.

is this something from the game that is going over my head?

Actually, it's not.

Funny vid!

[Microphone_Kirby]

Oh, I'm King Dedede, and Vi is Waddle-Dee. Together, we make up a mafia.

Is anyone else slightly uncomfortable by this, even as a joke?

I don't really expect this to pan out, but it's a good place for my vote right now.

Vote: Natirasha

A little... but not enough for a vote.
Now that I look back, that self-vote triggered an alarm; from my experience, Mafia seem to vote themselves more often than not...
So an

FoS: Natirasha

is in order.

FoS Vi

for his last sentence of post 22

.

Unvote: wolframnhart
Vote: Verbal

for having a name that comes earlier in the alphabet than mine.

Everyone except wolframnhart, I've got my eye on you!

... I don't see anything necessarily wrong with that sentence, Ku_F. Seemed like he was joking around.

If that warranted an FoS for him then I should get one too for:

No worries though; I don't lynch based on avatars alone, because if I did Ozyman would never be lynched, no matter how scummy he looked.

Personal note: if these two "Dragons" in this game are anything like the other two "Dragons"... this game is going to be interesting... if it wasn't already for all the Kirby talk.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Personal note: if these two "Dragons" in this game are anything like the other two "Dragons"... this game is going to be interesting... if it wasn't already for all the Kirby talk.

Who are the other two dragons you refer to?

Figures one of you two would ask...
Another site, another Mafia game, both had "Dragon" in the name, both are amazing at Mafia(in different ways).

[Microphone_Kirby]

EBWOP: both

have

Dragon in their name.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Yes. My FoS was serious.

The other Joke-votes? Well:
One, no one else self-voted, even in jest, and hence, they're not "similar jokes" to me, and
Two, I didn't pay them too much mind because they're weren't aimed at me... but even if they were, I'd shrug them off because they're were only jokes... but still keep them in mind in case it gets a little... close.

As I said before: from experience, more often than not, Mafia seemed to vote themselves for whatever reason. It's not a sure-fire Scum-tell, hence only an FoS.

[Microphone_Kirby]

The

unofficial

"I'm waiting too long for the Mod to make a Votecount and I won't wait any longer" Votecount:

Natirasha

: Ku_F, Natirasha, Verbal, SavetheDragons

Ku_F

: Vi,

Verbal

: DraketheFake

SavetheDragons

: Ozymandius

Vi

: Capricious

DNV: Microphone_Kirby, wolframnhart, Jebus, DragonsofSummer

12 alive, 7 to lynch


Other notes:
Those that haven't posted in more than 2 days: DragonsofSummer, Ozymandius, Jebus, Natirasha
Those that have posted only once: Ozymandius, Jebus

FoS: Ozymandius and Jebus

Both of you are charged with attempted lurking. Do either of you have anything to say or add? Wild theories? Commentary??? ANYTHING AT ALL?!?!?!?!?

[Microphone_Kirby]

OK... I need to gather my thoughts and review a bit here:

There's seems to be a lot of scrutinizing and arguing over this:

Oh, I'm King Dedede, and Vi is Waddle-Dee. Together, we make up a mafia.

Some people Voted for him for that and some didn't think much of the quote.
DraketheFake thinks that Nat implied knowledge of the set-up, and voted him for it. He also seems to think there's more than one Scum Group.
wolfmanhart Voted for Nat because... well, this post explains it better than I can:

Vote Natirasha

for now. Since Nat had linked the two of them together, and Vi came to the defense of Nat from DTF's vote, there might be actual defense of a scum partner.

SavetheDragons voted for wolfman for bandwagoning.
Nat suddenly (I think) voted for wolfman for the same reason and claimed that his intentional scumminess was a trap. Strangely enough, wolfman expected to be voted by Nat...
DtF seems to disapprove of "Bandwagon Traps".

... and that's basically the big thing going on right now, IMO. Correct me if I'm wrong about all this... but going on the above, this is what I think:

As I said: I don't think too much about that particular quote, but I still find Nat's self-vote a bit suspicious.
... I don't like the thought of two scum groups, especially in a game this small. Seems like a ridiculous thought to me.
wolfman's logic for voting for Nat seems absurd, and I agree with the notion that he may be just bandwagoning.

FoS: wolfmanhart

I think it's silly -nay, stupid- just to make yourself scummy just to lay some sort of trap. I just... don't understand why anyone would do such a thing.

[Microphone_Kirby]

As I said: I don't think too much about that particular quote, but I still find Nat's self-vote a bit suspicious.
... I don't like the thought of two scum groups, especially in a game this small. Seems like a ridiculous thought to me.
wolfman's logic for voting for Nat seems absurd, and I agree with the notion that he may be just bandwagoning. FoS: wolfmanhart

You presume there is one scum group, of course a valid assumption given that minigames of 12 players predominantly have a 3 man scum group. You dislike the play of both players. Therefore, are you suggesting that they are scum attempting to bus one another, or do you dislike one more than the other?

Further clarification needed, from both Nat and Kirby.

I'm not suggesting anything, nor do I "dislike one more than the other". I only find their play suspicious.
... Assuming "they" are wolfman and Nat.

[Microphone_Kirby]

In general, guessing at the set-up instead of using content is a scum move,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been guessing at the set-up ever since Post 57? Seriously, you've been on that obvious joke claim almost religiously. I even explained how unlikely it was that the claim was remotely truthful. (Posts 58 and 66)

... Sounds like a contradiction. You might want to explain yourself, DtF.

I'd like to see something other than joking around happen as well. I'm not even sure what to say

... I think we're done joking around ever since Nat sprung his "trap".

Additionally, I only posted the mafia statement to get us out of the RVS. The game was getting in lurk mode.

... "Getting into lurk mode"? I think it's already there... although I'm not helping

that

situation much.

[Microphone_Kirby]

M_K: Do you have suspicions that don't involve parroting Vi's statement to DTF?

... ABSOLUTELY!!!

Ozymandius for (possible) lurking and useless posting. Anything in his two posts useful?
Jebus for the same reasons as Ozyman, but far less substantial. At least Jebus seems to be trying...
Natirasha for self-incriminating himself... just to spring a trap. I still don't get (or like) this.
wolframnhart for blatant bandwagoning. I still don't like his reasoning for his Vote on Nat, despite what I just said about his "trap".

That's about it.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Anyway this is a strangely slow start to a game that is for sure.

Agreed. Wish I knew why...

Fear? Lack of time? Lack of content or nothing to say?

I'd say, for the most part, it's fear; fear of saying the wrong thing and getting killed for it.

No one wants their game to end so fast...

[Microphone_Kirby]

Fear? Lack of time? Lack of content or nothing to say?

I'd say, for the most part, it's fear; fear of saying the wrong thing and getting killed for it.

No one wants their game to end so fast...

I disagree. There are two newbish assumptions here.

1) The Town will necessarily kill people for flimsy reasons (i.e. "saying the wrong thing"), especially D1.
2) One's death is necessarily bad for their win condition.

It's because these are not true that Mafia does not have to be completely drenched in paranoia, with people scared into silence.

For #1:
Actually... this is true for Day One, since there's no evidence; the other days, there's Night Actions (for the most part) to go off of. But if you still have nothing... then "flimsy reasons" are all you'll have.

#2:
Depends on the Role that died. No one (else) gives a damn about a Vanilla role, but if a Blocker, Cop, Tracker, or Doc dies... well, it's a real blow for the side that role was on. Note you said "bad", not "fatal".

Then again, that (specifically) is not what I'm implying when I said "No one wants their game to end so fast"...
For example: say you're on a sports team; any one. Would you enjoy the game more playing it to the end and winning, or forced to sit in the sidelines in the first quarter/half/period/, yet still win?
If you wanted to join just to sit on the sidelines and let the others win for you, then why the hell did you sign up in the first place?

[Microphone_Kirby]

M_K, I don't like the sentence about the vanilla.

Too bad for you.
No one cares about a Vanilla as long as a good power-role (Especially a Doc) is still alive. When a Vanilla townie is mislynched, it's an... "Acceptable Sacrifice" as I remember it. The only time it doesn't

seem

acceptable is lylo... but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a Vanilla Townie mislynch in lylo would

still

be an "acceptable sacrifice".

Oh, and "lylo" means "Lynch or Lose", which is a situation where the Townies must lynch someone or else they risk losing by a Mafia Night-Kill which, if it succeeds, will make the # of Mafia = the # of Townies.
That was for "irritated by abbreviations".

Here is the problem with all of your logic Mic_K, you will almost never be lynched without a chance to defend yourself in a game on here,

and it is slightly more common but not once that someone gets lynched over one thing they say that is slightly scummy.

Errr... I get the first part of the sentence, but the underlined part... I don't understand what you're saying. "And it is slightly more common, but not once..." Can you make that part clearer?

[Microphone_Kirby]

but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a Vanilla Townie mislynch in lylo would still be an "acceptable sacrifice".

How is a Vanilla Townie, or any pro-town role, being mislynched in Lylo be an acceptable sacrifice??

How many times have you heard or said: "I'm sorry, but you seemed/acted more scummy than (insert name of (eventually revealed) Scum player)", especially at the end?
A more direct answer: when the Townie in question seemed/acted/is being more scummy than the remaining scum.

Maybe it's worded wrong, but that's what I meant by "Acceptable Sacrifice".

[Microphone_Kirby]

Thought: How about we run up a bandwagon on a lurker to like L-2 or something. Pressure. In particular, Micro-Kirby seems like a good start, I think.

Well... at least you're finally contributing... somewhat.

Comment: I'm insulted.

You're

calling

me

a lurker, especially when there are

better

people to be called "Lurker", which includes yourself, Jebus?

Then again, Natarisha, Capricious, and Ozymandius are also good (maybe better) candidates for the accusation for Lurking.
Still, despite your accusation on me as a lurker, I like your plan. Just pick a better target.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Then... at least how are we going to get those guys out of their shells? Ask them politely???

[Microphone_Kirby]

@Micro-Kirby- I didn't mean you were lurking, I meant that you should be the pressure-wagon target. My thoughts tend to get jumbled >.<

Well, I (rightly, if you ask me) assumed you thought about pressure voting me for Lurking because they appeared to be in the same context.

So... if not for lurking, what

is

the reason you wanted to pressure me? >=(

[Microphone_Kirby]

So... if not for lurking, what

is

the reason you wanted to pressure me? >=(

Well, which is it? Do we pressure lurkers, or do we pressure Microphone_Kirby?

Thanks to the numbers, we can do both. I'd like to see Micro-kirby

because of what he's said prior to this

, but lurkers are also good with me.

So I see my question's answered...

Well, if that's how you feel, lets cut to the chase. What do you expect to gain from pressuring me? What do you want?

[Microphone_Kirby]

So...Jebus. Who's scum right now? Why is Microphone Kirby worth pressuring right now?

My interest, because of his posts towards the beginning of this game.

The beginning of the game? Huh...
!!!!
Hey... define "beginning of the game" in your own words, Jebus, then I'll address some problems I'm having with what you just said. Like, how many pages or posts is the "beginning of the game" for you at this point?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Beginning of the game is the first 3~ pages.

Really, pressure voting anyone is fine with me, I just want to see something of interest happen.

You got it! I have you now!

@Mic Kirby - I forgot I was in this game till I checked a role pm for a different game

It doesn't seem like I've missed much.

Other than Nat hinting/joking at more than one mafia.

Tell me something... You said that I was worth pressuring because of something I said in the beginning of the game (which you now defined as the first three pages), and the second post I quoted from you was from the bottom of the third page. If what I said

then

is worth pressuring me

now

... why would you call it "not much"? Why didn't you pressure me then??? Frankly... I don't understand!

I strongly suggest finding those posts that make me worth pressuring at this time and convincing everyone that they're worth giving me pressure, and soon... consider it your last chance to sway me from Voting you.

[Microphone_Kirby]

@Micro_Kirby - I pulled you out as a name I'd like to see pressured. I'm really not going on much at all, moreso my interest in relation to your earlier posts. Meaning I wouldn't even so much as FoS it otherwise.

... Me either to tell the truth, but you keep saying "Pressure Microphone_Kirby" and I keep wondering why. Hell, I asked why and told you to give a reason. Right now, I'm getting from this post is that "I've picked you randomly, so don't pay it no mind". But some of your other posts said that "Your suspicious for (some action) and thus you should be pressured". For example:

So...Jebus. Who's scum right now? Why is Microphone Kirby worth pressuring right now?

My interest,

because of his posts towards the beginning of this game

.

Thought: How about we run up a bandwagon on a lurker to like L-2 or something. Pressure.

In particular, Micro-Kirby seems like a good start, I think.

This was the start of the controversy... but moving on:

For three and four, it seems a little odd to pick L-2, and it seems odd to pick Microphone_Kirby as your example. Pressure can be achieved without any specific number of votes, and Microphone_Kirby has not been even close to a lurker.

If you meant that you wanted to pressure Microphone_Kirby for his awkward foray into meta-discussion on the last page, that would have been one thing.

1) That's what I meant.

2) L-2 is the max for pressure votes. It makes it much harder for a quick-lynch to happen (not that I'd expect it this early), and if someone unknowingly votes, there's time for someone else to unvote.

4. thinks that Microphone_Kirby of all the players in the game is the "lurker" worth pressuring.

If you take out the "the "lurker"" part, then yes.

@Micro-Kirby- I didn't mean you were lurking, I meant that you should be the pressure-wagon target. My thoughts tend to get jumbled >.<

Well, which is it? Do we pressure lurkers, or do we pressure Microphone_Kirby?

Thanks to the numbers, we can do both.

I'd like to see Micro-kirby because of what he's said prior to this

, but lurkers are also good with me.

Seriously, I've seen you change your reason for pressuring me at least twice.
First, it's Lurking, which was proven wrong many times.
Next, it's "What I said earlier", where you didn't -hell, NEVER- specifically specified what post or posts makes me worth pressuring.
Finaly, its "Pulled a name I'd like to see Pressured", which to me is "I chose you at random". After the previous reasons you've given... this is screwed up.

... I cannot accept this continuous change of reason, and especially the latest reason. Lets say you "blew your chance".

Vote: Jebus

And if this becomes your new reason for pressuring me, so be it.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Anyway, I went for you because even though you weren't even at a point where I'd FoS you, you still seemed the scummiest of all players. Keep in mind, this is a leaning of 51 towards scum and 49 towards town, aka hardly anything. As for posts in particular,

54 was one that just seemed somewhat awkward.

Finally, you present some evidence for your case. I'm glad. In response:

Did it really seem awkward? If you ask me, I was only trying to answer the questions I was asked as completely as possible... although I didn't know at the time those particular questions were for someone else. :\

[Microphone_Kirby]

Hmm...

I say that I'm willing to be called a bad player based on the feeling I get from Jebus's posts, which suggest that s/he's trying to do what we're all doing; making something appear from nothing.

----------------------

While I gladly and openly disagree with the method in which Jebus has done this,

I don't think that these actions make Jebus scum. I'm more interested in what Jebus will do in the future than what is going on now (hence the right now, part.)

HOLD IT!!!

I want to make sure I get this right from you: "The

method

" in the quote above is voting - or at least suggesting to vote - to create pressure on someone to make them talk, correct?

If not, what were you referring to?

[Microphone_Kirby]

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with me there Vi

You were scum in that other game so yeah.

So let's see. You voted Natirasha because
*of some "strange posts"
*I was too lazy to change a vote in what amounted to the rv stage
*I "defended" Natirasha against DtF (later rebutted)

I like how these reasons have more to do with ME than him, which was Natirasha's point.

Whereas Jebus has
*some "strange posts"
*ordered a bandwagon on a "lurking" non-lurker (quoted for truth)
*backpedaled to the extreme (see 177)

Yet you say nothing warrants a "true vote yet", and you make a really short post during the first half of the Jebus focus saying "that's lame unvote FoS Jebus"

.

Hmm... could this comparison and argument imply that Jebus and wolfman are Scum-buddies?
Well, that's what it looks like to me. I want wolfman to respond to that post above all of them at this moment. It has some serious implications that I want cleared up.

[Microphone_Kirby]

I don't see this day possibly ending well.

By bandwagon, I think I'd prefer wolf to jebus, but I think we all need to get off our asses and make a decision on one person together.

Agreed on the "off our asses" part, but not so much on the "prefer wolf to Jebus" part. Still, when I go back and read things like

Jebus is soooooo backpedaling. I really want to vote that way, but there's something stopping me, see next statement~

@Ku_F: I'm voting wolframnhart because of the rather terrible logic he endorsed in joining the Natirasha wagon,

and I'm more suspicious of him because he's not pursuing the more blatant Jebus wagon.

I'm waiting on wolframnhart to answer me now actually.

and

So let's see. You voted Natirasha because
*of some "strange posts"
*I was too lazy to change a vote in what amounted to the rv stage
*I "defended" Natirasha against DtF (later rebutted)
I like how these reasons have more to do with ME than him, which was Natirasha's point.

Whereas Jebus has
*some "strange posts"
*ordered a bandwagon on a "lurking" non-lurker (quoted for truth)
*backpedaled to the extreme (see 177)

Yet you say nothing warrants a "true vote yet", and you make a really short post during the first half of the Jebus focus saying "that's lame unvote FoS Jebus"

.

, I wonder if wolf and Jebus are a Scum-group (as I said before). I'm still keeping my vote on Jebus, but I won't object to a wolfman lynch if it comes to that. Presonally, I'd prefer Jebus' lynch, but If you need to band more votes together for wolf's Lynch, I'll help.

[Microphone_Kirby]

... Seriously guys (and gals), I can't keep up with any of you.

Microphone_Kirby

-not sure how you thought StD was directing the question about an FoS being serious at you. That makes it look like you are trying to be sure to answer everything. It's like you are trying to play the "good townie". If it was just honest confusion, ignore that comment. Looking back again, I see that StD never used a name in that post, so I can see where confusion might come from.

Post 97. After being asked if you have suspicions that aren't parroted, you simply call out lurkers and Nat's trap. Not much new there. I don't expect to see a lurker lynch on day 1, and Nat has been discussed plenty.

REALLY don't like the "fear" post. You aren't contributing nearly as much as you are posting. Also, you shouldn't "fear" anything about what you say if you are town. State your thoughts, and make sure we know them. It can be useful if you die and flip town. If you are scum, then yes, be afraid.

You say that flimsy reasons are all we have to go by. This isn't true. Good discussion is enough to make a reasonable lynch. In the same post, you say that a vanilla townie death does nothing. That's not true. You can gain quite a bit by reading someone's posts knowing that they were town and being genuine.

Not liking the part about sacraficing vanilla's at all. We don't want to sacrafice anyone. Yes, a mislynch of a vanilla townie is better than a mislynch of a power role, but still, we shouldn't be looking to "sacrafice" anyone town-aligned. And in LYLO, you don't want a mislynch at all. Never sacrafice a vanilla in LYLO because then you lose, unless you are scum.

Current Read=Scum

... "Playing Townie"??? Now I'm insulted. It's my credo: answer all questions and inquiries aimed at me. BTW, I really did think STD asked that question at me.

The last three Paragraphs: they're honestly how I felt... and frankly, I still do. Well... at least you didn't dismiss them as "Theoretically Wrong Opinions" and leave them to rot.

BTW, I'm getting hypocritical vibes from your post regarding Paragraph #3. I shouldn't fear saying anything??? Well, it seems like you're labeling be Scum because of what I said in those... posts. That was the most honest I've

ever

been, alignment be damned.

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?


Other that that, I don't have any new opinions, and I still want to lynch Jebus ATM.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?

If you lay your thoughts out, and then get killed, we know what you were thinking and can use it to catch scum.

... Or blatantly ignore them, especially if they only echo another person's thoughts, but you have a point.

If you are afraid to lay your thoughts out, and get killed, we have no way of gaining info.

Well... True.

We can also get a better read on you while you are alive. If you are town, you should have no problem with that.

That's true to an extent, but what if your read is wrong and what if I can't sway you otherwise no matter what I post?

If so, it would be pointless arguing.

Does anyone think there needs to be a week extension?

I don't care either way. I'm not the time-keeper.

[Microphone_Kirby]

I don't like the "too scummy to be scum" arguement. You used it on Jebus.

I realize that because I am not a wordsmith, my argument has turned into a rhetoric attack against me.

My belief is that as evidenced by the numerous newer players who have accidentally played like scum because they don't yet know how to appear town (newer players basically have not learn to not appear like scum, while more experienced players have, and that's the major difference between the two).

Jebus, a newer player, has made a mistake, and he (she?) is being strung up and executed for it. I don't see a newer scum player sticking their neck out there with what Jebus said, and I don't think all players should immediately jump on the words of a player who does not conform with Mafiascum's definition of town.

So...can we please stop calling it "too scummy to be scum" now?

... I don't understand this post, so I'll go through what I think you're trying to say.

You believe that there's no such thing as "too scummy to be scum" because of some newer players "accidentally" acted like (obvious?) scum because they didn't know how to act like a townie. It also seems like you're arguing that any

veteran

that acts "too scummy to be scum", on the other hand, should be strung up and hung because they

know

how to act like a townie. Am I correct so far?

The rest of my argument assumes that's correct... so I'm going to wait until I get an answer.

[Microphone_Kirby]

You believe that there's no such thing as "too scummy to be scum" because of some newer players "accidentally" acted like (obvious?) scum because they didn't know how to act like a townie.

Eh, not quite. I think that newer players are more likely to make mistakes that are more likely to get caught by players who know how to make themselves blend in better. I'm running off the opinion here that what makes a player good at scum is appearing town.

It's kind of like, "Well, damn. I've lynched or supported the lynch of X people when I thought they were scum. Turns out they were just town, and new. I should really watch out for that in the future."

I see... you're weary of lynching a new player that seems to act like scum, because of some past experience in which these people ended up being Townie.

Unfortunately, I also had some past experience where another newbie acted like (almost obvious) scum, was spared a lynch, ended up living to endgame, and

was

scum. In fact, this happened twice in my experience.

My point? No matter who they are, don't let up on scum, especially if they act like it... well, that's what I learned from my experiences.

It also seems like you're arguing that any

veteran

that acts "too scummy to be scum", on the other hand, should be strung up and hung because they

know

how to act like a townie. Am I correct so far?

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think

? I'm merely talking about what happens when newbie players make mistakes, not whether veteran players try to appear really scummy. That's a whole 'nother ballgame.

Well... yes, kinda. *sweats*
Maybe I was jumping at shadows, trying to find something that wasn't there...

[Microphone_Kirby]

It stuck out to me that you corrected the mod to make sure your vote was included and it was just a joke vote.

To be fair, a Vote is still a vote. Joke or not, It still has to be counted. Besides, if he didn't want it there anymore he would've unvoted, right?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Why do you think that I'm claiming an information role?

Well, I would think you're claiming an info Role too...

One: you could be a cop and have just confirmed Nat's role.
Two: You're a Stalker or Watcher and... well, watched Nat talk with someone (again, confirming Nat's role).
... Because you seem so sure that Nat was who he said he was, and that was just your first post.
But... Two other possibilities exist: You're Nat's Mason partner or you're taking too much stock on Nat's claim... then again, no one counter claimed Nat... so maybe such an assumption is natural.

Oh, and before I forget to do so...

Vote: Jebus

I haven't forgotten "yesterday". *crosses arms*

[Microphone_Kirby]

I'm sorry Vi. M_K caught me. When we had our night during this game, I went to Nat's house in RL and stalked him everyday

to see what he posted

. I'm not psychic . (Is stalker a real role in Mafia?)

XD

Yeah, the Stalker is a real role in Mafia... and you mostly described what a Stalker does.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Yeah, the Stalker is a real role in Mafia... and you mostly described what a Stalker does.

I do what you bolded in Kuffy's post regardless of my role to ensure that people are lurking and not V/LA :\

Hence,

"mostly"

only the last word in the bolded part should be changed.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Now I have two things which can catch him when he lies: the name of his partner and the things they discussed.

Oh, no no no. I believe you've already been caught.

When Natirasha claimed Kirby the Mason on Day 1, he was telling the truth. I am Gooey, his mason partner. If you need any corroborating evidence, I suggest you read the first half of D1 with your eyes open this time. (Although it is true that we knew each other from another site.)

And this is the part where you die, Ku_F. You get to fill in the last part of the puzzle - what did we talk about last night? I'm calling manure on your entire story, suggesting that you are instead a Mafia Role Cop.

Vote: Ku_F

as an incentive of sorts.

Yup. Vi and I are masons. Everything Vi has said to this point is correct.

Vote: Ku_F

since he's created a failboat and did some major fishing there.

...
Wow... what a bomb that has been dropped.

Look back and you'll see that I know what you discussed as I went to Nat's house and stalked him.

How could I do something like that? Were you really buying that I know what you discussed?

I was already suspecting that you two were the masons if Nat was telling the truth.

So what did you discuss?

Why would you say such things in the first place? Oh, and I can't buy that "you were joking".

And why is it important that we know what they discussed at all?

FoS: Ku_F

[Microphone_Kirby]

Ku_F's statements, although a little weird, were clearly a joke, so I'm not sure how you, M_K, and Jebus by proxy (or by QFT) can say "I can't buy that you were joking." What exactly do you mean by this, and what exactly do you expect Ku_F to gain out of being silly like this by being scum (I'm not saying that it's a town action, but I see it a neutral one).

... For one, it wasn't "clearly a joke" to me.

Second, I meant exactly what I said. I wasn't going to buy that Ku_F was joking as an excuse simply because there was

no point

in joking around at this stage of the game.

Third... I wouldn't know. I'm not in her mind.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Mic, you can't POSSIBLY think that Ku_F was actually at Nat's house, stalking him, and reading his PMs. How is this not clearly a joke?

... Yes, I can

possibly

think that. I know nothing about Nat and Kuffie IRL, and I specialize in paranoia. :p

Why would she say that

at all

at this point in the game? Again, I cannot accept "joking around" because now - hell, even

then

- is not the time to joke around, especially like...

that

.

[Microphone_Kirby]

-_-

Alright, enough! I guess, for the sake of argument, Kuffie was joking around. The problem is the way she seemed to joke around; it sounded like she was trying to get some sensitive info... and she succeeded in outing the other mason...

(another problem is that I was being mocked (good reason or not), but that's irrelevant...
and yay for One Day Gaps... >_>)

[Microphone_Kirby]

Microphone_Kirby - I can't think of anything at the moment, although I remember having something to say to you--

Take your time... surely, you'll remember someday.

[Microphone_Kirby]

I want to say Mic because I had so much against him, but

it

kind of looks like genuine (no offense mic) bad town play. Still suspicious of Drake. I'd like to see Cap post more. I had suspicions there, but I did a re-read and didn't see much. Mic and Jebus both had interesting reactions to Ku_F's joke, particularly Mic. I think we need to remember that a mason could be scum, but neither is today's lynch.

I saw

it

as scummy first. THEN you said

it

could be a newer player. I agreed with you that

it

COULD, but kept my suspicion. I haven't ruled out him being a newer player. I haven't ruled out anything. He is one of my suspicions, and my vote makes that clear.

It, it , it... that's all I'm hearing from you. You never told anyone today what "it" is... so, what is "it" that make me scum in your eyes???

... Was "it" really my reaction to Kuffie's "stalker thing" earlier?

[Microphone_Kirby]

So I haven't said anything specific against you? Tell me what you want me to elaborate on. Here's most of my suspicions that I have posted and consider specific:

It was obviously a joke. I seriously doubt that Ku_F is a messed up stalker like that. How could you possibly take that seriously?

Mic, you can't POSSIBLY think that Ku_F was actually at Nat's house, stalking him, and reading his PMs. How is this not clearly a joke?

Elaborate on these two posts a little more.
Specifically, tell me how these two posts helped you to put your vote on me. The way I see it, these two followed your vote.

[Microphone_Kirby]

So I haven't said anything specific against you? Tell me what you want me to elaborate on. Here's most of my suspicions that I have posted and consider specific:

It was obviously a joke. I seriously doubt that Ku_F is a messed up stalker like that. How could you possibly take that seriously?

Mic, you can't POSSIBLY think that Ku_F was actually at Nat's house, stalking him, and reading his PMs. How is this not clearly a joke?

Elaborate on these two posts a little more.
Specifically, tell me how these two posts helped you to put your vote on me. The way I see it, these two followed your vote.

Well, first of all, I'd like to say that there were parts of that post that were much more important than this.

Second, you haven't answered how you could have taken Ku_F seriously.

Third, to answer your question, I was already suspicious of you before these posts. Way before these. See my first post of the game. I think i quoted it for you in the post you just referenced. The way you jumped on Ku_F looked like you trying to find a suspicion that wasn't there. Like you wanted something to lynch someone for. Ku_F said something that clearly wasn't helpful, but at the same time, didn't hurt anything. I just didn't like the way you jumped on Ku_F for that. I'm not saying Ku_F is obvtown or anything, just that there was nothing suspicious about that joke.

First, those more important parts were already explained well enough, so I didn't ask about them.

Second, you've mocked me for it (reasonably, in retrospect), but still I've already have answered that:

Mic, you can't POSSIBLY think that Ku_F was actually at Nat's house, stalking him, and reading his PMs. How is this not clearly a joke?

... Yes, I can

possibly

think that. I know nothing about Nat and Kuffie IRL, and I specialize in paranoia. :p

Third, you explain how outing Masons is a

good

thing, and maybe I'll see things your way. *crosses arms*

[Microphone_Kirby]

I don't think the masons should have been outed yet, but I think Vi was going to claim regardless of what Ku_F said.

Well... considering Vi's recent posts, I don't think he was going to claim "regardless of what Ku_F said". *crosses arms*

You also haven't satisfactory answered my inquiry yet:

Third, you explain how outing Masons is a

good

thing, and maybe I'll see things your way. *crosses arms*

but I'll assume you don't think outing Masons is a good thing.

Now, taking another look at your little paragraph earlier, knowing what I know now:

Third, to answer your question, I was already suspicious of you before these posts. Way before these. See my first post of the game. I think i quoted it for you in the post you just referenced. The way you jumped on Ku_F looked like you trying to find a suspicion that wasn't there. Like you wanted something to lynch someone for. Ku_F said something that clearly wasn't helpful, but at the same time, didn't hurt anything. I just didn't like the way you jumped on Ku_F for that. I'm not saying Ku_F is obvtown or anything, just that there was nothing suspicious about that joke.

I believe that Kuffie did try to out the masons (then and now) and it's now clear that Vi wasn't planning to claim Mason without provocation or a fight so...
One: the suspicion was there, and I already had

someone else

from yesterday I wanted to lynch. That's why I voted on the first post of this day.
Two: It did hurt something (for lack of better context). Vi = viable NK target.
Three: The way I see it...

you

jumped on me in a similar way you said I have Kuffie, IMO.
Four: The Joke itself wasn't suspicious; her intentions in telling it were, though.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Well, if Nat is really a mason, having the other mason claim can give us confidence in that. If Nat is scum fake claiming mason, we either get a situation where no one claims it, or we force one of Nat's buddies to fakeclaim. That would be a great situation because as soon as Nat or Vi were to die and flip non mason scum, the other is auto scum. I doubt that's the situation we have here, but it's possible, and would be a good thing.

You're right in assuming I was against Vi's claim though. The above is a stretch, but I wanted to entertain possibilities where outing a mason would be a good thing.

... Yeah. That

would

be a good thing!

To Two:I don't know about that. If I were scum, I wouldn't mind having the distraction of unconfirmed masons around, especially if both ARE town.

Well, I think Masons are essentially confirmed town... if Nat or Vi flips Mafia and the other flips town, this would be the first time I've seen Scum Mason with a Townie...

To Three:How is it similar?

Well... I can't think of a good

excuse

answer. It just... felt like it.

[Microphone_Kirby]

(although I would agree that Mason implies confirmed)

Not true.

Mod, please delete this if it's not allowed:
http://forums.g33xnexus.com/index.php/t ... 8.300.html
http://forums.g33xnexus.com/index.php/t ... l#msg10830

The first link shows where the scum mason claimed mason if anyone wants to read from that point. Everyone let him live to endgame.

The second link shows the role PMs from the game. You'll notice Sonny Corleone, mason, and mafia. It specifically says the following: "You are a member of the mafia AND a mason with Lucy:

If anyone reads this game, remember that it was my first game and I'm not going to claim to have played well. Actually, I did a good job of scumhunting, just not convincing anyone.

I've only read within the two links given, thank you very much.
Well... interesting. Very interesting... and sneaky.

... I think my head is going to explode thinking about Nat and Vi and their Masonry...

Let me clarify.

I think "Mason", the title, should imply "confirmed". "Neighbor" is better for unconfirmeds, or in this case just "friends".

Useless semantics, etc.

Yes, quite useless... :\

[Microphone_Kirby]

Mic, do you see my point about unconfirmed masons now?

Which point, to be on the same page?

------------

I really don't think Jebus needs a replacement. The fact that Jebus is active in other games while drawing fire in this one is suspish.

I think his point is: unconfirmed Masons are not necessarily Townie masons.
Or is it Masons aren't necessarily automatic Townies? I'm fairly sure it's one of the two...
------------------------------
Add that Jebus is also signing up for another game. Way to be committed... :\

[Microphone_Kirby]

Don't PM me if you think your game needs an angry sociopath.

There's already one in

this

game, so we don't need you. Goodbye.

... Unless you're already replaced someone in this game already. Then there's nothing I can do, is there?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Honestly, I think we should abandon this game. The mod is loltarded, the setup is boring from what it seems, most people are on V/LA or are lurkers.

As much as I don't want to end this game... I have to agree with Nat.

No disrespect to the mod, but I must say you're being lazy. It's painfully obvious even

you

don't pay attention to this game.

From the 8 players remaining, I'd say that only 3 would be able to be truly active and not lurking... tops.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Please don't abandon it! Don't see how I'm loltarded and the setup shouldn't be that borign. Please. I'll do better. I pay attention to this game. I swear.

.... I

don't want

to abandon it! I want to see this to a better end than that!!! *hug*

[Microphone_Kirby]

OK... now it's time to try to move on from this Mafia Drama and to actually play the game:

Vi's death easily shows he's a

Mason

... but nothing about being a

Townie

... which makes me a bit uneasy about Nat...

Nevertheless, how does everyone feel about Ku_F (not her replacement)? Did she really try to spring some sort of "trap" (beginning of D2) by outing the Masonry or was it really a harmless joke? Either way, was that action legitimately scummy?

... I'd love to hear her replacement's opinion (Moriarty147, according to the OP) on this for sure.

My opinion (whether or not I stated it): I currently think that it was a joke but its intent was to out the other Mason, and I'm not too sure anymore if it was scummy or not considering Nat could be a scum-mason, or at least anti-town.

Let the arguing begin...

[Microphone_Kirby]

... OK, this is a problem.

As much as I love the game of competitive agreement, this (Mafia) game really needs to get moving. NOW.

So...

FoS: Nat
Vote: Moriarty147(Ku_F)

Right now, I'm saying that Outing the Masons is bad > Nat = scum-Mason?

Especially before we get some more opinions on the matter.

[Microphone_Kirby]

... I'm with the other two on this. Please elucidate.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Anyway, I have no idea what Ku_F's motivations were. At a best guess, she thought that Natirasha was possibly scum and wanted to see if he was lying.

... I have no real idea either, and I guess we'll never know.

My guess would be "out the Masons and kill them, cause I'm scum".
Lets see how the rest of the day goes... if we can get other people to talk.

To Mr. Mod: Can we get a prod/replacement for Save the Dragons, Capricious, DragonsofSummer(not too sure; he says he's "suffering from extreme L/A" in the last page) and DraketheFake(more of a Prod for DtF)?

Yay for a one day gap and only 4 people talking so far.

[Microphone_Kirby]

... I was prodded last Wednesday, and frankly I don't know why. :\

Anyways, I looked back to the VCs, specifically for who was the last voter in each lynch:

D1 (Deadline lynch):

wolframnhart (4):

KMD4390, DraketheFake, Vi, STD

D2:

Jebus (6)

- Microphone_Kirby, DragonsofSummer, Vi, Save The Dragons, Natirasha, Kmd4390

FoS: STD('s replacement?), KMD

STD: He seemed to be just rushing to get a deadline lynch in, so that FoS is weak. Still...

KMD: His Hammer seemed opportune... even if we waited for deadline instead, we still would've had a lynch. A day's worth of conversation and potential info gone... although judging by the flow of conversation at that time and by the lack thereof now, I guess there wouldn't be much to go on at all...

Yeah... I know both FoSs are weak... *shrug*

<--- *is Colin Mochrie in "Dead Bodies"*

[Microphone_Kirby]

Really? What did you want answered before the night, and by who?

Um... actually, I had nothing for anyone at the moment.

Alright, down and dirty time. I'm gonna monkey with the set-up a bit here, and make some *gasp* assumptions, but try and bear with me

Players left in the game:

8
DraketheFake
Moriarty147 (Ku_F)
Natirasha
DragonsofSummer
Save The Dragons
Capricious
Kmd4390
Microphone_Kirby

Among these players, we have one claim: Nat, a mason with the defunct Vi. That leaves 7 players. We also have three other dead players, all vanilla townies. Given the fact of at least 4 vanilla townies and 2 masons (though I haven't ruled out the possibility of them having an additional ability, mind you), that leaves 6 roles left in the game, a possible 2 to 4 of which are scum roles (assuming a normal-ish, balanced set-up), which would leave another 2 to 4 other possible town-aligned roles. I for one cannot possibly imagine a balanced set-up with four aligned scum, four vanilla townies, two masons and two X-factor roles that would be so lopsided as it is right now, and since we've had only one kill a night I think we can safely rule out three aligned scum and an SK (as that would mean we have a dumb-lucky roleblocker or a psychic doctor or something else extraordinary). I suppose it's also possible that the SK simply hasn't killed. That would probably be bad for us.

So: if we assume, for the moment, that there are a maximum of 3 scum in the game, then that means that - barring some kind of successful protect or other nightkill prevention tonight - we are in lynch or lose. Therefore I think it prudent that we consider a massclaim. P.S. Those good with numbers might be able to intuit that I, ah, got the ball rolling on that one.

In the meantime: (up to) 3 of the following 7 players are scum:
- Me
- Moriarty47
- DoS
- STD
- Capricious
- Kmd
- Microphone_Kirby

Those are close to 50% odds. I'm going to start with Microphone_Kirby, and I'm going to do it in a different post, because this one is ponderous enough.

Problem with your theory: Say there is

exactly

3 Mafia... with

8 people left

, it isn't lylo. If anything, A mislynch will mean the Town loses if the Mafia's kill succeeds, but there's no guarantee a Doc or a Blocker exists, and even if one does exist, there's no guarantee such an ability will succeed in stopping the Mafia Kill.

And another thing: you're implying that Nat is a Townie-Mason. Look in that list of possible Mafia again:

In the meantime: (up to) 3

of the following 7 players are scum

:
- Me
- Moriarty47
- DoS
- STD
- Capricious
- Kmd
- Microphone_Kirby

I don't see Nat's name on that list... you're

positive

that Nat's Townie?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Of course, I have been preoccupied.

Furthermore, I feel as I have had zero influence in the flow of this game. There seems to be a general orthodoxy that has this game under its control.

My opinions on the day one lynch was: It was better to lynch Jebus, the only other viable lynch at deadline , than to lynch wolf, who is one of the two players I held to be most pro-town. It is true that Jebus had managed to say

nothing

at all, and also true that we had almost no information/ general points of discussion at that point.

Re-reading, my opinion on the day two lynch was that, we already had gotten some interesting points; e.g. Ku_F's play and interactions, and other players activities in response to Ku_F's play. Jebus, amazingly, still managed to say

nothing

at all. However, this was not the time to be lynching Jebus, which was equivalent to lynching a lurker, with the other, largely ignored events occurring.

... Damn right you had "zero influence in the flow of this game". :\

And about D2, I disagree with you. Jebus was still a good lynch D1, and became a better lynch D2 because she followed me when I suspected Ku_F and never really explained why. Sure, she lurked like hell after she was pressed but that made her all the more lynchable IMO.
Frankly, if she wasn't the good lynch, WHO WAS???
And elucidate on these "other, largely ignored events".

[Microphone_Kirby]

And about D2, I disagree with you. Jebus was still a good lynch D1, and became a better lynch D2 because she followed me when I suspected Ku_F and never really explained why.

Reading/hard/shopping, it seems.

He was saying that Jebus

should

have been the day 1 lynch instead of wolf, not that Jebus should not have been lynched.

Yes, yes, I know that. I meant a good

choice

for a lynch D1.
Picky, aren't we?

[Microphone_Kirby]

EBWOP: Wait, now I'm getting a bit confused... you're saying Cap said that mean Jebus should've been lynched D1 instead of wolf? Yes, I know that.

But tell me something: do you agree with the other half of Cap's post?

[Microphone_Kirby]

... F**cking hell. 3 Day gaps FTL. Where the hell is everyone?

Moriarity: Hey, dude. You're about to be lynched. At least try to defend yourself or give some sort of opinion on who to lynch next if you're resigning to the lynch.

Drake: I thought you were going after me.
What happened to "Monday or Tuesday"??? And don't forget to answer my question:

Problem with your theory: Say there is

exactly

3 Mafia... with

8 people left

, it isn't lylo. If anything, A mislynch will mean the Town loses if the Mafia's kill succeeds, but there's no guarantee a Doc or a Blocker exists, and even if one does exist, there's no guarantee such an ability will succeed in stopping the Mafia Kill.

And another thing: you're implying that Nat is a Townie-Mason. Look in that list of possible Mafia again:

In the meantime: (up to) 3

of the following 7 players are scum

:
- Me
- Moriarty47
- DoS
- STD
- Capricious
- Kmd
- Microphone_Kirby

I don't see Nat's name on that list...

you're

positive

that Nat's Townie?

Cap: You think you're lurking? No way. Answer my inquiries!!!

Frankly, if she wasn't the good lynch, WHO WAS???
And elucidate on these "other, largely ignored events".

Kmd4390: I thought you were... different from your replacement. Where's that vigor you showed when you went after me?

DragonsofSummer: ...You're lurking worse than Capricious. Frankly, I can't get much of a read on you since you don't post much. If you're not L/A anymore, get you a** in gear already and help!!!

FoS: Capricious, DragonsofSummer

Since not that many people seem to come by this topic (much) anymore, let me tell you all a little story about a game I've just recently finished:

It was a game with 31 people. It was Day 10 at Lylo. With 9 people, there was a severe surge of inactivity, yet the very few active town found someone who would be eventually revealed to be Mafia. At least 4 people - 2 Townies, 2 Mafia, and one each were Newbies - were inactive like hell. The alive Townies managed to get the Mafioso Down to L-2, but Time ran out on that day. Naturally, the Mafia won because some lazy Townies didn't even get a vote in before time was up!!!

... I refuse to let that happen again.

Mod: At least Prod Moriarty147, DraketheFake, Capricious, Kmd4390, and DragonsofSummer. Amongst them, replace who you feel needs to be replaced . BTW, Save the Dragons asked to be replaced just in case you didn't know (doubtful, but there no one replaced STD yet).

[Microphone_Kirby]

Frankly, if she wasn't the good lynch, WHO WAS???
And elucidate on these "other, largely ignored events".

Were these the questions you had for me?

1. I have already said that either Ku_F, or someone else who interacted with Ku_F, maybe an attacker, maybe a defender, should have been lynched. The Jebus lynch made no sense because there was no way anyone could have gotten a read on her based on what she'd posted thus far, which was equivalent to nothing.

2. Please reread pages 10-15

... You do realize that Jebus "attacked" Ku_F too, correct?

Look back and you'll see that I know what you discussed as I went to Nat's house and stalked him.

How could I do something like that? Were you really buying that I know what you discussed?

I was already suspecting that you two were the masons if Nat was telling the truth.

So what did you discuss?

Why would you say such things in the first place? Oh, and I can't buy that "you were joking".

And why is it important that we know what they discussed at all?

FoS: Ku_F

QFT

Though I think this is more deserving of a vote than an FoS.

Vote: Ku_F

Would you say that this was an attack, even though it was merely parroting myself?
Oh, and check out post 419. Would you dare say that didn't look at least as scummy as you say Ku_F was Day 2?

And about Pages 10-15: what the hell am I supposed to be looking for? All I've seen is continuous bickering about Jebus' and wolf's scumminess, and continuous vote changing.
Way to be lucid...

[Microphone_Kirby]

Seriously, no one has figured out the massclaim issue besides KMD?

Not really, but I have nothing more than a guess...

Oh, BTW Spyre, I want your opinion on Ku_F on day 2, since Moriarity has 2 votes on him because of it (one of which is my own ).

Do you think it's anti-town to out the Masons?
Do you think Ku_F

intentionally

try to out the other unclaimed Mason?
What's your overall thought(s) on Ku_F?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Ku_F is a wildcard still at this point.

I'm more concerned with the fact that what they were doing WORKED

versus the fact they tried it. That business was so transparent it should have never outed the other mason.

Nevertheless, we seem to agree that Ku_F was trying to out the unclaimed Mason D2. The question remains: do you think her actions at least anti-town?
If so, do you think her replacement would be a good lynch today? Hell, do you think she should've been lynched

yesterday

?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Again, if people start paying ATTENTION to this game I'll actually put my case together on STD. He's the one that in my read, for multiple reasons, came out as King Scum McScum, Lord of the Scum Reaches, Duke of the Scum Towers.

Hows about claiming versus trying to get me to push on Ku?

Or how about you start stating your case against STD and start pushing on him? If you have such a awesome case as him being scum, why the hell are you keeping it to yourself??? Hell, if your case is as good as you imply, maybe I'll push with you!!!!

Oh, and Ribbon.

[Microphone_Kirby]

... Hmph. Whatever.

FoS: SpyreX

Don't say you're planing to serve a 5-star meal and then serve us nothing but shit. *crosses arms*

[Microphone_Kirby]

Honestly, I've got some apathy because this game is covered in it at this moment. Well, hell, for most of the game. Day 1 was a deadline lynch, day 2 was a whole mess of fail.

So, I'll feed ya, I'll feed ya till yer gut bursts. But, you gotta work hard for the money too.

... Maybe I'm getting a bit apathetic too, but only because I've done all I can for my case... or at least someone else's case I agree with and am trying to build upon. Frankly, I'm waiting for responses (even a short "your opinion sucks" seems to be fine at this point), opinions (Random finger pointing seems OK now. Hopefully it would get

something

started), and other arguments (like your own with STD).

*sigh*

Probably. I'll work on it.

I'm worried about apathy jumping before the case is really weighed out though.

I'll be sure to try to dissect whatever you've got before I go vote-crazy.

[Microphone_Kirby]

So yesterday went essentially nowhere.

No lynch, marginal amounts of info, and we're (at least, I am) still waiting for the big "STD is scum" speech. *crosses arms*.

I'm at page 7 or so with my read, didn't find much info yet, I'll keep you guys up to date . Also, a list of who claimed what would be nice, and might keep you guys fresh as well.

How's you read going? Hope the the three days helped. =)

Oh, and Me, Kmd, Cap, and Spyre all claimed Ribbon. You haven't claimed yet... care to claim now?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Microphone, could you link me to a game where you were scum?

I could... but a few things:

First, it's not on this site. I've played only one other game on

this

site, but I bailed on that game early and I was a Townie.

Second, wouldn't the link be SPAM of some sort

since

it's not on this site? I'd like this question to be answered before I do anything.

Third... it's rather embarrassing to show it. I screwed up D1 in that game, and I should've been lynched then and there if you ask me. In fact, when I said this:

Unfortunately, I also had some past experience where another newbie acted like (almost obvious) scum, was spared a lynch, ended up living to endgame, and

was

scum. In fact, this happened twice in my experience.

I (and that game, no less) was one of those two "experiences".

[Microphone_Kirby]

... On second thought, maybe I shouldn't post those links. Seriously, from what I've seen from you Lawrence, you didn't finish reading this game and it seems you're busy with at least one other game... what would make me think you could read a 50 Page

Day One

and keep up with this game and any other you've entered?

NK goes through, the next day StD asked to be replaced - so he was around for the NK.

So, why the scum read (tl;dr)

1.) There's a lot of the hedging language during the early phases.
--- That whole suspect me if you want business, seriously.
2.) Dropping suspicions at the merest push in early game.
3.) The Lynches
--- This is a big one for me. Deadline lynching wolf over jebus makes sense because,of the two, Jebus was going to make the perfect scape-goat for the next day. Which he did.
4.) My brother is dead, woe is me. Seriously.
5.) The attacks, over and over, on the masons.
--- He himself says they are a "backburner" case yet never really presses on any of the others.
6.) The vehement defense of Mic.
--- When not really looking at the connection in play between Mic and Jebus.
7.) The fact that TE confirmed and hasn't been prodded or any mod notification YET HASN'T SAID ONE DAMN WORD.
--- Why play when you can lurk a win?

He managed to skate along not doing much and contributed -just enough- to those terrible lynches to not be overtly suspicious but make sure they went - because a NL is good for scum but not near as nice as eating a townie.

... Interesting.
Unfortunately, I can't keep my promise; I've read every bit of that mega-argument against StD, but I can't find anything to argue against you with... at least without sounding like an idiot or contradicting myself.

Just a couple of questions:
One: How are my and Jebus' play "connected"? Frankly, I don't see anything that might connect us in that regard.
Two: Why don't you just say that we suck already?

So, that leaves the middle. I'm good. This leaves DoS / M_K. I'd advise a namedrop analysis to make sure but I think both are going to fall outside the standard mean (DoS not enough, M_K too much). Here is my real pickle - we've got a token suspicion from DtF on DoS which could be a connection if DtF is scum or a massive chainsaw defense of M_K on KMD if DtF is scum which is almost too obvious for me to like. Right now, gut leans on M_K though.

This is all for later.

Vote: DtF / TE

I don't understand what you mean by a Namedrop analysis... but what I'm getting from here is that you're suspecting me for some... psychological reason (excluding gut feeling). Could you explain this a little more? Namedrop analysis? HUH?????

Oh, and don't you know DtF was replaced by you? TE is Timeater, I assume. You do realize that you've voted for Two different people, including "yourself"?

And thank you for reminding me.

Mod: Prod Moriarty147 and Timeater. And do we have a replacement for DoS?

[Microphone_Kirby]

I was too busy reading and then trying (and failing) to argue (against?) your post... I was about to post myself (essentially comment on your post) until the site gave me the middle finger, and I went away for a bit.

[Microphone_Kirby]

One: How are my and Jebus' play "connected"? Frankly, I don't see anything that might connect us in that regard.
Two: Why don't you just say that we suck already?

Its not that you suck. However, selectively attacking Jebus for "newbie" play and clearing you for "newbie" play is a type of tunnel vision that is bad dates.

... Quite right, but regarding the "Say that we suck" argument, it was a sarcastic response to some of you seemingly condescending remarks in your mega-post. Don't take it too seriously.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Well, it isn't that I disagree with you... it's that

if

you are wrong, I'm afraid the Mafia might pounce on this the first chance they get.
Then again, if that would be their plan and if this is Lylo, then they probably would've done so already....

Yeah. WiFoM FTL. >_>

Still, we have about 2 weeks left in the day. Wish more people would talk...

Speaking of,

Mod: Please Prod Moriarty147, Capricious and Timeater. And again, are you sure we have a replacement for DoS?

Pretty sure. Timeater did pick up his role PM

[Microphone_Kirby]

Lylo's scary for me. One mistake and *poof*, Game Over.

... Might as well get something started.

Vote: Timeater

Lets say you convinced me. I still can't think of any decent counter-argument for anything you've said in your mega-post.
I still believe Ku_F('s replacement) is at least anti-town, but I've said all I could on why... as well as a few other people.

[Microphone_Kirby]

I really don't think STD was scum.

Hypothetical scenario, Spy, Mic, and Lawrence, you would all be scum. You'd be going for the townie lynch and would only need my vote.

Opposite scenario, all 4 of us are town. In this scenario, all 3 scum are completely inactive right now.

I think at least one of the active players is probably scum. I get a town vibe from Spy. I had the scum read of Mic earlier. Lawrence is posting just enough to show that he is here.

For me, it's a tossup between Lawrence and Mic. Something is telling me it's Lawrence...

OK... it's obvious that you don't think STD is scum. Care to explain why?
Maybe answer this question asked to you earlier:

Well Spy...

I see your case, but I'm not so sure I agree with it. Cap, however, I can agree with you on.

What part(s) do you not take agreement too?

(Notice: Home computer is down, and I currently have limited access on a public computer (1 hour/Day). I'll try to be on every day, but I won't be able to be on Christmas Eve or Day. Sorry everyone. )

[Microphone_Kirby]

It's not so much that I read the case, and said, "wow, that's crap" or anything. I'm just not quite sold on it...

I see. Fair enough. Then lets discuss something else.

You're definitely sold on Cap, right? Is it because of this:

To spur interest, let us all discuss mass claim.

Or maybe the fact that he's lurking too much? He was fairly active on the latter part of "yesterday", but suddenly his activity in this topic died...

[Microphone_Kirby]

No, the pink-haired fairy.

I remember a whole planet of "Ribbons", although the "Ribbons" had different hair...
The way this game seems, I wonder if we're on

Ripple Star

than Pop Star. :p

So... how does everyone feel about trust lists, and is it a good idea to start one now?


I'm out of ideas...

[Microphone_Kirby]

Thoughts:
- microphone questioning KMD's vote on cap. Looking for more reasoning. Now that we see cap as scum, this is of interest.
- microphone easily persuaded by spyr's case against time/me without any real discussion

- At least I'm being consistent. I asked for Spyre's case on you.
- I wouldn't say "easily". I couldn't find anything to argue against...

KMD is either amazingly crazy scum (doubtful) or town. Pushing on Cap (who came up scum) and waiting on the lynch makes me think he's town.

If Mic comes up scum, then then last IS Lawrence (I find Mic scummier than Lawrence).

It could be Lawrence/Mic or Lawrence/STD - but I can not see a Mic/STD.

I'm gonna be pissed if I second guessed myself, but.

Vote: Microphone

... Is this what your gut told you?

(Notice: Home computer is repaired and I'm back fully. Fire away.)

[Microphone_Kirby]

Alright... I'll give it a shot.

Results:

1.) Cap never voted or FoS'd any of the living players.
2.) Cap

only

mentioned STD once (and that was saying he was the most town).
3.) Of the living, Cap never mentioned specifically: Lawrence (DoS), Kmd (Verbal).
4.) The people he was the most negative of have all flipped town.
5.) He took a positive approach with DTF but took a negative/neutral approach with me.

Conclusions:

Strictly from this, STD looks the worst. Of the people he mentioned STD was only mentioned once, and that was in the most positive of lights.

... And you were mentioned twice. Strictly from my point of view,

you

look the worst. *crosses arms*

So, the question is is STD scum?

At 7/3 lylo (4 to lynch) his wagon got to 3 - myself, mic and Lawrence. We know we had an inactive scum AND an inactive town.
I'm going based on the assumption that KMD is town.
We know that not all 3 of the people on STD's wagon are scum.

So, by nature there is at LEAST one scum on that wagon - and the only situation in which there could BE

only

one scum on that wagon is if STD was also scum - and, if that were the case, why push a scum buddy at lylo in a game covered in apathy?

So, from that view - the scum HAVE to be Mic and Lawrence (from my standpoint, considering I know I'm town).

So, yea, I've confused myself.

... Sounds like it. Apparently, you sound like that you think your old suspicions seem... more incorrect.

And from my PoV, I don't think you're town. :\

Aside from what I've mentioned, your conclusions make some sense...

[Microphone_Kirby]

Me? I was mentioned 3 times. If you are talking about DTF, yes, that was twice in a positive manner. I brought that to light - especially showing the difference in how he treated me versus DTF.

*takes a second look at the graph; sees Spyre's and DTF's name on the graph*
... DOH!!!! >_<
Call it... Overlooking something that existed.

... Sounds like it. Apparently, you sound like that you think your old suspicions seem... more incorrect.

Given a choice between a gut call and logic, I take logic every time. Logically, the pair makes more sense to be in the 3 of us and knowing my alignment means it has to be you two.

... Fair enough.

2. (underlines by me):

Fear? Lack of time? Lack of content or nothing to say?

I'd say, for the most part, it's fear; fear of saying the wrong thing and getting killed for it.

No one wants their game to end so fast...

I disagree. There are two newbish assumptions here.

1) The Town will necessarily kill people for flimsy reasons (i.e. "saying the wrong thing"), especially D1.

2) One's death is necessarily bad for their win condition.

It's because these are not true that Mafia does not have to be completely drenched in paranoia, with people scared into silence.

For #1:
Actually... this is true for Day One, since there's no evidence; the other days, there's Night Actions (for the most part) to go off of. But if you still have nothing... then "flimsy reasons" are all you'll have.

#2:
Depends on the Role that died. No one (else) gives a damn about a Vanilla role, but if a Blocker, Cop, Tracker, or Doc dies... well, it's a real blow for the side that role was on. Note you said "bad", not "fatal".

Then again, that (specifically) is not what I'm implying when I said "No one wants their game to end so fast"...
For example: say you're on a sports team; any one. Would you enjoy the game more playing it to the end and winning, or forced to sit in the sidelines in the first quarter/half/period/, yet still win?
If you wanted to join just to sit on the sidelines and let the others win for you, then why the hell did you sign up in the first place?

After reading the previous quote and starting to think of situations where scum could be 2+1 instead of a group of 3 (or 1+1+1) this sticks out to me because Mic talks about ways where an individual dying could be bad for their win condition. Might be nothing, but it could tie back to the old Jeep tell that deep down everybody wants to tell you their role. Maybe he is somebody with an individual win condition.

... No, I said if a PR townie dies, then it's hurts the Townie's win condition as a whole. Well, that's what I meant.
If an independent dies, then it's

fatal

to his/her win condition... unless that's their objective.

3. His game has a lot of going with the flow type play and not really making arguments of his own unless directly confronted by a player.

Yep. That's usually the way I am in this game (as in Mafia as a whole, not just this one).

Then again, looking back to that post of mine you've quoted and what I've just agreed with, there's a rather massive contradiction...

[Microphone_Kirby]

Bio,

Why haven't you claimed?

The vote isn't bold and doesn't count.

You

should

wait for Mic.

Unvote

to see Mic's thoughts on lynching Lawrence.

Way to put me on the spot...

Well, this is what I think the general Town feeling is:

Spyre, out of the three "bionic lynchers", seems the most pro town
KMD seems to be "proven" town
The gut lynch on bionic is put on hold (forever?) to lynch the more "logical" choices...
which are myself and Lawrence

My thoughts? Damn right lynch Lawrence!!!! Someone said it before:

It has to be Mic and Lawrence, based on this.

and while I agree with this sentiment, I'll be Damned if I start voting off myself... ever. It

has

to be one of us, so...

Vote: Lawrencelot

[Microphone_Kirby]

Yes. I did not expect just 2 scum. Of course, that means that all of us could be the scum.

Then the game would be over, would it? :p

Only 2 Scum? So what? We just find the last one and hang him high!

[Microphone_Kirby]

All of us could be THE scum (the one remaining) - bio could be scum as well (which wasn't likely in the 3 scum scenario).

Yes, yes, I know. I was just joking around.

First question is for Mic:

Could you explain in more detail your reasoning behind your hammer vote. I obviously thought Lawrence was scum and being wrong is not scummy (I would have hammered him and did fake hammer him earlier in the day), but I would like you to explain your vote.

You seemed to take everything others said as truth and didn't question why KMD, myself and spyrex were not being considered for a lynch at that time.

You seemed to immediately narrow it down to Lawrence as the only option for voting.

First, I took "everything others said" as

logical

, not the truth. For example:

However:

I'm in a pickle. KMD really put an interesting twist on things with how he played before the modkills - if KMD is scum, the only reason he would have had to not hammer would be if STD was scum as well. However, his option (Cap) WAS scum so trading a scum for a scum in a situation where we seem to have no PR's is too much for me to grasp. So, KMD is town or lost his mind (and an easy win).

So, the question is is STD scum?

At 7/3 lylo (4 to lynch) his wagon got to 3 - myself, mic and Lawrence. We know we had an inactive scum AND an inactive town.
I'm going based on the assumption that KMD is town.
We know that not all 3 of the people on STD's wagon are scum.

So, by nature there is at LEAST one scum on that wagon - and the only situation in which there could BE

only

one scum on that wagon is if STD was also scum - and, if that were the case, why push a scum buddy at lylo in a game covered in apathy?

So, from that view - the scum HAVE to be Mic and Lawrence (from my standpoint, considering I know I'm town).

The argument defending KMD seemed logical at the time, and therefore he was as good as "confirmed town" to me.

The argument against lynching you was also logical at the time... or at least the argument

for

lynching me and Lawrence, and that put your lynch on hold.

Spyre? It was his logic that got the ball rolling, so to speak, on Lawrence's eventual lynch. I don't think

anyone

wanted to go after Spyre for that... at least not "yesterday".

Call it "going with the flow" as you will, but there's no way I could try successfully try to get anyone else on the chopping block. But tell me something: did you find Spyre's logic... logical? Do you think there was anyone else that could be lynched other than me or Lawrence?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Call it "going with the flow" as you will, but there's no way I could try successfully try to get anyone else on the chopping block. But tell me something: did you find Spyre's logic... logical? Do you think there was anyone else that could be lynched other than me or Lawrence?

Your phrasing is weird.

Why is it a matter of getting somebody on the chopping block as opposed to finding scum and expressing an opinion?

Simple. Because when you're on the chopping block, you'd want someone else to take your place. Then, hopefully, they will stay on it long enough to get chopped.

What gets me about rereading Kirby is the yesterday issues. Especially around the hammer post(just his words, quotes removed):

Way to put me on the spot... Rolling Eyes

Well, this is what I think the general Town feeling is:

Spyre, out of the three "bionic lynchers", seems the most pro town
KMD seems to be "proven" town
The gut lynch on bionic is put on hold (forever?) to lynch the more "logical" choices...
which are myself and Lawrence

My thoughts? Damn right lynch Lawrence!!!! Someone said it before:

and while I agree with this sentiment, I'll be Damned if I start voting off myself... ever. It has to be one of us, so...

Vote: Lawrencelot

I dont get this. If he agreed with me about it being two of us thee (and the assumation of 3 scum), why mention me as pro-town as the reason for pushing on lawrence over me. Even the last sentence says it HAS to be one of us (quoting where I said it had to be Mic AND Lawrence).

... Do you mind

not

putting words into my mouth?

First, I never agreed that there was certainly three scum in this game.
Second, I never said you were pro-town. I said that you were the

most

pro town of us three. I still thought of you as a bit on the scummy side (and a little more now)...

Today he's said that he didn't think anyone would have wanted to go after me based on that - but in accepting my theory, by nature, he HAD to go after me.

Its not making sense. However, I cant decide if its scummy or not.

Oh, really? I still could've gone after bionic the same way I "HAD" to go after you. Even if I accepted your theory, it doesn't clear bionic in the least.

... Not that I would've, but it's still a possibility.

[Microphone_Kirby]

I'm NOT trying to put words into your mouth. I'm just following what was done to a natural conclusion.

Of course you didn't say there was certainly three scum. However, when you said it makes more sense that it was two of you, me and Lawrence that definitely assumes that there is 3.

Further, if you had thought there was only two than there would have been every reason to push on Bio as well. Which you didn't. You simply said it HAS to be one of us and voted Lawrence.

Like I said, it doesn't make sense, but I'm not sure if it makes you scum.

These answers definitely don't do much to persuade me, however.

First, you never asked any questions, so I never gave any answers.
Second,

would

you have changed your mind if

anyone

gave a persuasive argument against anyone else? I'd doubt that...
Third, too bad for me. I was never really persuasive about anything...

Well, I was on the chopping block and I had 2 concerns. One was figuring how to not get lynched since I entered at L-1 on lylo. The other was to find out who the scum was. If I wanted somebody else on the chopping block I would have blindly just voted for who KMD was voting to bring them close to my vote total. You had zero votes on you at the time and the consensus was to lynch Lawrence. Your hammer seemed to be an attempt to cut off discussion.

Zero Votes doesn't mean I'm off the chopping block IMO, as today easily demonstrates.

And if the consensus was to lynch Lawrence, I'd think that relevant discussion would've ended...

I said that you were the

most

pro town of us three. I still thought of you as a bit on the scummy side (and a little more now)...

This oddly means you felt you were scummier than Spyrex (he was more pro town than you). How is that possible? Shouldn't you see yourself as completely pro-town?

... I may be a Townie, but that doesn't mean that I've acted very Pro-Town. IMO, trying not to lie also means not lying to yourself as well. Seriously, did I really try as hard as Spyre to find any Mafia??? That feeling - a townie thinking s/he isn't pro-town - isn't as odd to me as you think.
But along those lines, that doesn't mean that the most Pro-Town players are always Townies...

Mic - Putting aside my suspicions of you, I would like to know your current suspicions.

... "Anyone else besides me" good enough? *shrug*

[Microphone_Kirby]

Of course I didn't ask any questions - I was laying out my theories. By not asking questions about said theories (and voting citing them) there is an implicit agreement.

... You have a point there. :\

Second, YES, of course I would have changed my mind with a persuasive argument - even if he was right, claiming only 2 scum instead of 3 is not a solid argument (because all it does is open up more avenues for a loss if he is wrong and it WAS lylo).

... Oops. I seemed to ask the wrong question. I meant if

I

gave a persuasive argument. I still think not, and especially now, considering:

Third, you better get persuasive. I'm leaning on you being scum - and shrugging your shoulders

saying what will be

doesn't help us win this damn game IF you are town.

... "What

will

be"? So you don't deny what I think will happen? Then quit playing around with me like the cat with the wounded rat.

No. Thats not good enough. You better explain why you are suspicious and who you are suspicious of - and fast like.

You mean other than "Spyre for being wrong, wrong, wrong"??? Yeah... that's all I got, at best, and even I know that's a worthless argument.

Oh, and have you ever heard of "pride before a fall"?

[Microphone_Kirby]

Also would you guys call this, a 10:2 vanilla Town win? Especially because the masons didn't do much?

Technically, yes, but not because they didn't

do

much (how am I supposed to know what they did?), it's because they didn't

mean

much.
What I mean is that they were treated like suspects like any ordinary townie, and maybe suspected more so when they were both revealed.
In contrast, if they were treated like "confirmed town", then they would be most likely never to be suspected again and the Town would focus on better targets... and the Masons in question would be executed promptly.
But that's just me musing.

To bionicchop2, SpyreX, and Kmd. You have my undying respect for 1) replacing into this game, and 2) actually pulling a win out. You are literally the reasons Town won.

Yeah. Reeeespect.

To Microphone_Kirby. Good job sticking this one out. You were in this game on your own, and a lot on your plate with increasingly tougher players showing up in this game.

... and increasingly difficult odds. The (deserved) deaths of Cap and MoriKu_F really turned the game on its head. I've been wondering what to do since then, with my back-up and my back-up plan (no telling how that would've worked out ) going away...
Then the vote for me came, and I freaked out (I believe I freaked D1 too, and I've been wondering why I haven't been lynched

then

). I saw Lawrence as my only way out of that day alive...

That led to a rather anti-climatic D5. I thought killing KMD would help my odds, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized I couldn't find a way out. Whatever argument I could think of could be easily countered with either better reasoning, a better (supposed) argument or something I did that was worse. I just about gave up at that point (and got a bit... dramatic), and I still think I should've been lynched by the first 7 posts.

... Sorry about that speech. I just needed to get all that off my back. Looking back, "Freaking out" seems to be a rather reliable scum-tell from me (well, to me anyway).

<- Quite possibly the most spineless scum ever :p