Mini 637: Xyl's Smalltown Plus - Game Over

[M4yhem]

Hello Hasdgfas, Hello Charter!

It seems that pwnz didn't bother sending in a choice last night, so I have no information to give you.

Guess you're next, Hasdgfas.

It'll take me a couple of days to reread the game, so I'm gonna ask for your patience while I do so. Obviously, it's important to get this choice right.

[M4yhem]

Whoa whoa whoa, I haven't even reread yet, give me a chance!

It's true that pwnz was a lurker and didn't take his role seriously but that has nothing to do with his alignment and everything to do with his personality. If you will just give me a little space to do some analysis, I will prove that to you.

As for him tracking you when you were blocked, Charter, how was he supposed to know? As far as I know, has didn't tell anyone in advance who he was going to block, and pwnz only claimed after Has because the order was random. Obviously Pwnz and Has both suspected you at that point.

Are you really sure enough to throw the entire game to Has if you're wrong, Charter? That seems very strange to me. Please retract, we still have plenty of time before the deadline and I haven't quite caught up with you yet.

hasdgfas- If you're town, you'll wait for me to reread. I know it's frustrating to wait, but I can't make the right choice without the facts.

[M4yhem]

Well, from my point of view, has is confirmed town. That means you are the last scum. If has was scum, he would have NK'ed me last night and there would have been absolutely no stopping him winning.

I suppose this is true. Unless Has forgot, which doesn’t seem very likely.
So, it’s you or me, which means it’s you. I don’t really understand why, if you’re scum, you would give me this information, but maybe you think Has will say it anyway, so you might as well be honest.

I don’t understand why you didn’t use you night ability. Wasn’t there a chance you could have sent the scum kill back at themselves? What’s your justification for not trying to protect a townie?

He didn't need to know, he went last. The order was not random, armlx (confirmed scum) let pwnz go last.

I guess that’s true. However, it seems to me that it was Armlx who made the kill, since he claimed to have investigated Geddingsworth, who conveniently died. You probably worked out what you would say before day came and so the order didn’t matter. That fact that you also picked the conveniently dead Ged as one of your choices is suggestive to me.

Anyway, I’ve reread, and I’m leaning towards a Charter lynch because:
Crazy voted Charter at the beginning of day one, then retracted and never mentioned him again. I call that ‘distancing’.
Charter claimed to suspect Crazy but never as a number one suspect. I also call that distancing.
Charter was against Has’ plan to SB early in the game. Since Crazy was SBomber, I find that suggestive.
Armlx defended Charter from an attack by pwnz.
Armlx claimed to see Charter as Wolf’s partner, but voted for Wolf not Charter day two. Distancing, again. Charter said the same about armlx, but neither of them ever came close to voting each other.
Charter pushed hard against Iceman (town), Zombie (town) and Wolf (town).
And, like I said, I can’t think of any reason for Charter not to use his bus power last night if town.

There are things that bother me about Has as well, namely, the fact him and Armlx spent most of the game agreeing and he also helped to lynch several townies, but there are more point against Charter than Has.

Fos:Charter

, no vote till I hear responses from both of you.

[M4yhem]

Armlx defended Charter from an attack by pwnz.

I believe that was hascow.

Put that all together and we are left with one Mafia vote on charter at the very beginning of the game, which could honestly mean anything.

Mafia will sometimes vote for other members of the mafia early in the game in order to remove suspicion.

Your case on charter self contradicts within 1 paragraph. Nice.

You believe wrong.

Crazy didn't do much of anything but stall SBing someone.

But he still made time for you.

Mainly I didn't want to get SB'ed. pwnz conveniently never gave opinions on anyone but ZS and myself.

What made you think you’d be S-Bed?
True, pwnz didn’t say much, but since he left the game at a point where all he had to do was send in a kill to win, I think you can discount the idea that his silence was a strategy. He just didn’t care. And if he was right about you, he had a 50% success rate, which is pretty good.

Clearly I've been wrong a lot this game.

Yeah. Is that normal for you?

Your whole case against me boils down to "distancing", not that I'm scummy. I just said whatever in response to your points because most of them weren't things I did, so I can't explain them.

Well okay, but what about your voting record? Nothing but townies, that's pretty scummy.
And then there the fact you were blocked and there was no kill last night.

I could make a similar case against you because pwnz "lurked" the whole game and never mentioned armlx or Crazy.

You could make

a

case against pwnz, but it wouldn’t be similar. You are the only one with these scummy two-way connections to both dead scum.

Has, your thoughts?

[M4yhem]

You don't think being on a town bandwagon is a slight scum indicator, Has?
I know town votes for town too but I think it's still worth mentioning.

I agree with you about Armlx's interaction with Charter. The funny thing is, Charter said pretty much the same thing- that he thought Armlx was scum with wolf, but he hadn't mentioned Armlx before that or tied him to Wolf in any way. Looks fake.

[M4yhem]

So, have I done anything that's scummy? Some things that I can actually explain?

Yeah, explain that comment about Armlx being Wolf's scumpartner. What made you think that? How come you never provided any evidence for the idea? Why, when Armlx said

you

were Wolf's scumbuddy, didn't you defend yourself?

Also, there were some questions in my last post. Please answer them. I'm very close to voting you now and if I'm wrong, we both lose, so try to explain yourself as throughly as possible.

Has- I try to look at both- where the votes go and how they're made.

[M4yhem]

See, if the SBomber was scum and bombed you, the town would be better off. A one-to-one trade nearly always favors town. It would be a victory for you too, just like being nightkilled is a victory, since it means you were a threat to the scumbags.

If the SBomber was town then, unless you really annoyed them, they would have followed the 'bomb the one with the most votes' plan, since that's also in their best interests.

So I still don't understand your fear there.

What was I suppose to say? I'm not scum? armlx never made a case against me, he just hopped on the wolfwagon.

Well, if someone accuses me without making a case, I usually say 'what the heck are you talking about? Do you have any reason for saying that?
How about you explain yourself, before I vote you?'

That kind of thing. The fact you didn't react at all is kind of strange.

Alright, I'll make a case. Pwnz is the only one with NO connections to ANYONE.

How is that scummy? It seems more like nobody cared about him and he didn't care about nobody.

[M4yhem]

Mayhem, did you even read this game? Iceman SB'ed whoever he pleased, not who the town was voting for, so clearly my fear was rational. Also, like I said in the above post, I saw no need to pursue someone who was already dead anyway.

Yeah, I read the game. Information doesn't always stay in my head all that long.
To give Iceman some credit, he did ask who the town wanted him to bomb. He just didn't listen to their answers.

And it still doesn't explain why you were against the poison/SB/lynch plan from the beginning. Did you think Crazy would bomb you too?

I never said it was.

If it's not scummy, then you haven't made a case against me, which is what I thought you were supposed to be doing.

[M4yhem]

Alright, I can't take it any more. I'm sorry town if I'm wrong, but I'm going to

Vote:Charter

and see what happens.

The fact the Has claims to have blocked charter and we're all still here, plus the fact charter didn't use his night action, and the scum's interaction with charter and his interaction with them convinces me I have the right person.

Has, whatever you are, the game's now in your hands. I'll answer any questions to the best of my ability before you make your final choice if you're town; if you're scum, well played.

[M4yhem]

Hi Has.

So you're not scum, I guess. That's good.
Anything you'd like to know before you vote?

[M4yhem]

Because if he had time to post that, he had time to say "I'm town, goddammit, don't lynch me or we both lose, lynch m4yhem, pwnz was scummy as all get out?"

Or something else?

It doesn't matter to me because I'm positve he's scum now, so whenever he talks I think 'well you would say that, you're scum.'

[M4yhem]

That's true.

I guess you'll wait for him to make his case anyway?

[M4yhem]

Oh dear.

Vote:Charter

Charter, you did say you were sure Has wasn't scum, but then you unvoted me, kind of contradicting yourself.
And yeah, I'll read your case; can't defend myself if I don't read it, after all.

[M4yhem]

Something else I just noticed. Hascow, wolf, and ZS all defended me from pwnz's case. Not just armlx like Mayhem is saying. That's why I thought it was has that defended me, because half the town did.

I never said it was

just

armlx who defended you. What I said was, Armlx defended you. You denied that. Now, the fact that other people defended you doesn’t change the fact that Armlx, scum, defended you, his buddy, from an attack by pwnz, town.

That's pretty much a summary of pwnz's questionable actions. To summarize why I think he's scum: he has not given opinions on hardly anyone, that way he's never wrong when we had five townie deaths day one. If he hasn't been actively lurking, he's been actually lurking suspicion away from himself. He was fairly hypocritical and OMGUS was his second biggest reason for suspecting people, after early day one voting history. He contributed practically nothing the whole game.

I don’t deny pwnz didn’t contribute much. I do strongly disagree with the reasoning you give for his non-participation. Like I said before, if pwnz had been lurking on purpose as a strategy to win, there is absolutely no reason for him not to send in the kill last night. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if pwnz was scum; you or Has would be dead and he’d be gloating.

No, the fact that he flaked at the crucial moment gives the real reason for his half-assed play; he didn’t really want to be in the game. He struggled for a while to stay interested, to participate, but eventually he gave up.

He also replaced out of lover’s multiball recently (I checked his post history) which shows it isn’t a game strategy, it’s a personal thing.

Day two begins.
He was set up by armlx to reveal last, then gives a very questionable result.

Pwnz, why pick me?

You have always been my top suspect to be scum. That and it seemed like the busser would be most likely switch one of his mafia buddies for a townie just in case something bad were to happen.

This is the first time he's said I'm scummy, yet I've supposedly always been his top suspect.

Wrong. He voted for you the day before. The only other player he suspects, Zombie, is lynched, so his night choice makes perfect sense here.

Also, you can’t tell me a scumteam with Armlx on it wouldn’t have discussed what to claim before daybreak. The fact you claimed first means nothing, because you rehearsed your claims at night, Armlx killed Ged (since you were under suspicion) and then faked his claim on the dead guy.

I still maintain he slipped knowing he was going to be alive today. It's easy to go first if you know you're going to have to (even though he didn't).

Now you’re being petty. He didn’t go first because he flaked out. I would have gone first, if either of you had insisted, but it wasn’t important to you at the time, for some reason.
As for the slip, I like pwnz’s answer:

If I'm not alive tomorrow you will know what position that I held in the game regardless, so it wouldn't really matter either way.

If he’s dead, his alignment will be obvious. Does he really have to say ‘as long as I’m not nightkilled’ whenever he talks about tomorrow?

Contributes to wolfs lynch by not voting.

Right. And you contribute to wolf’s lynch by voting him and then relentlessly pushing for his death, while spreading a little suspicion on your partner, Armlx, in case it all goes wrong.

Any questions, Has?

[M4yhem]

I didn't deny it. I said I thought it was has that defended me, which was true. And then you're like, "looks like you're mistaken", when I clearly wasn't.

By saying 'I thought that was Has' you made it seem like Armlx

hadn't

defended you. I call that a denial- or at least an attempt to obscure the truth.

Talking about ongoing games aside, you don't know pwnz's role in that game, so how can you say it isn't a game strategy? I've seen scum realize they're cooked and replace out so they don't have to deal with it.

Because I know for a fact that he's a townie in this game.
Also, what kind of rubbish strategist replaces out the night before they're about to win? Again, all pwnz had to do last night was send in a kill to win, if he's scum. The idea he decided to be replaced instead, as a strategy, is ridicolous.

Day two begins.
He was set up by armlx to reveal last, then gives a very questionable result.

I said that's the first time he suspected me. Sure he voted for me on day one, but he didn't say he was suspicious of me.

He didn't need to spell out that he was suspicious of you. He made a case against you and voted on it. His actions speak clearly for him.

I don't understand how this is an argument about anything, but it's WIFOM nontheless.

It's not wifom, it's a logical deduction based on what we know.
We know armlx was scum. We know you were blocked. And I know that you were tracked and also that you are scum. Since you didn't kill that night, Armlx must have. The fact he lied about his role claim is just obvious.

You're completely missing what I'm saying. I was talking about how he knew he was going to be alive today, because he's scum.

I didn't miss that, I answered it below. You even quote my answer. Now who's twisting?

As for the slip, I like pwnz’s answer:

If I'm not alive tomorrow you will know what position that I held in the game regardless, so it wouldn't really matter either way.

If he’s dead, his alignment will be obvious. Does he really have to say ‘as long as I’m not nightkilled’ whenever he talks about tomorrow?

Looks like it.

Looks like what? That he has to say ‘as long as I’m not nightkilled’ whenever he talks about tomorrow to stop scum like you misrepresenting him?

Nice how you just attack me back. I'm not trying to shift blame for my part in lynching wolf, I thought he was scum and I was wrong. I'm not trying to sneak out of suspicion like you are.

Of course I attack you back! Were you hoping I'd just let you get me mislynched? Not likely.
And how is going through your arguements one by one and rebutting them 'trying to sneak out of suspicion'? I'd call it defending myself.

[M4yhem]

Getting tired, aren't you, Charter? It's hard to make up lies, isn't it? It's hard to try to make me look guilty when you know you're the guilty one.

I can keep going forever, you know. I have the truth on my side. I know pwnz was innocent, so every problem you come up with, I can counter.

Might as well give up, Charter. You put up a good fight but it's over now.

You can't hide the fact that it's you the other scum are linked with and it's you who was blocked last night. You are the only one who, in order to be scum today, wouldn't have to have thrown his chance to win away last night.
If pwnz was lurkerscum, he would have sent a kill in instead of flaking. If Has was scum, he would have sent in a kill too. But you were blocked, Has saved us all and now you lose.

[M4yhem]

His whole 'pwnz replaced out of another game, so he can't be scum!' idea is ridiculous.

That's not the arguement I made and you know it. You claimed Pwnz's flaking out of this game was some sort of strategy. I answered that by pointed out he was replaced in another game too.

I guess it's not attacking me, but he's not responding to my point against him, he's going on about something I'm not even talking about. I advocated everyone do what they want with their night choices, I don't care if people use them on me.

Your point was that pwnz called you his top suspect on day two when he'd never mentioned you before. I responded to your point by saying pwnz voted you day one, so you were clearly a suspect, and the only other person he suspected was lynched, so calling you his top suspects makes sense.

Obviously I contributed to wolf's lynch. I was the only one that said more than two words about him. I was the only one that bothered doing much of anything on day two. I could easily have lurked my way to another night, and another NK like pwnz did. Here is an example of him just attacking me because my point is good.

So you actively pushed for a townie lynch all day two and you think that makes you look better than pwnz, whose main suspect day two was you and who didn't vote for the townie?

And he didn't lurk his way to another NK. If he'd done that, he would have won, which is a point you refuse to face because you know you can't answer it.

This whole post is ridiculous.

Just having some fun with you.

And I ignored nothing. You keep ignoring the point that if pwnz was lurkerscum, he wouldn't have flaked out, he would have killed someone.

You can lie about me all you like, but the truth will out, Charter.

[M4yhem]

Talking about ongoing games aside, you don't know pwnz's role in that game, so how can you say it isn't a game strategy? I've seen scum realize they're cooked and replace out so they don't have to deal with it.

Completely not what I claimed at all.
How do you know pwnz didn't pay his internet bill? Didn't have an extended hospital trip? Didn't a lot of things.

I had a lot of points, you responded to few of them. Pwnz just up and vanished from the site, it wasn't a strategy. I don't understand why you keep saying I'm trying to say it was. It's not. You can't infer anything from it one way or another.

You’re a liar, Charter.

And he didn't lurk his way to another NK. If he'd done that, he would have won, which is a point you refuse to face because you know you can't answer it.

False.

What’s false? That pwnz would have won if he’d killed last night? That there was no nightkill? That you ignored this point the first three times I brought it up?

All of those things are true. If they aren’t, prove me wrong.

Has- it’s coming to the point where you need to choose.

Charter’s scum, he’s the one who didn’t want to use the SBomber early because Crazy was his buddy, he’s the one who Crazy distanced from with a early, meaningless vote. He’s the one who Armlx protected when pwnz attacked him. He’s the one who pushed for the lynch of a townie on day two, while pretending Armlx was that townies’ buddy, for distance, and having Armlx do the exact same thing to him.
He didn’t use his night action last night even though it could have saved the town. You blocked him and nobody died. And he keeps pretending I’m twisting his arguements when actually I’ve been nothing but honest and sincere, which I hope you can tell.

Vote for him and we will win. I know it’s difficult but you have everything you need to make the right choice.

[M4yhem]

No, you're the one who is twisting the facts. You are the one who is swearing at me, falsely attacking my character and generally acting like mafia caught in the act.

I'm just waiting for Has to make the right choice.

[M4yhem]

C'mon Has, please. Your instinct told you charter was scum most of the game; your instinct was right. Vote for him and then we can all go home.

[M4yhem]

Alright then.

Has, you suck and I totally hate you. Do what you like, but stay the hell away from me.

Better?

(It might look like buddying up, but being nice to the confirmed townie is something I do in either role. As townie, I know I can trust you and want you to trust me. As scum, I use it to manipulate people. But okay. I made my case, Charter's made his. You're on your own.)

[M4yhem]

Yeah right.

Has blocked you. I watched him block you.

Thank you for saving me, Has. Can we kill the scum now please?

Vote:Charter

[M4yhem]

High-five! Victory for town, I think, unless Has played a completely crazy scum game.

Man, you had me worried at the end there...we went to night and I was like 'oh no, I'm going to be blocked and then I'm going to be nightkilled.'

But it all worked out well in the end. GG Charter, you had me thinking pwnz was scum a couple of times and then I had to slap myself.

[M4yhem]

Note how because we only went to night once really, we were unable to kill who we wanted and lost because of it.

I liked how you argued in favor of a plan which had serious potential to mess with your team.

[M4yhem]

I wasn't saying you had another option; I thought it was clever actually, made you look protown.

It just amused me to think that, even as scum, you couldn't resist pointing out the best plan for town.

[M4yhem]

I never celebrate as scum until the mod confirms the lynch for exactly that reason.

I'm sorry I was too friendly for you to trust, Has. Once I knew you were on my team, I naturally started being nicer to you.

Thanks for the game, Xylthixlm.