Silent Star 3: Royalty

[Hopkirk]

Quick review of the playlist for anyone who doesn't know who someone else is but is feeling too awkward to admit it

Isis- The micro list mod and essentially Hectic's boss. Has the power to ban Hectic from creating game, or worse, remove his italic privileges. Probably bullied Hectic into giving her either a power role or mafia by using thinly veiled threats. @Isis - do you prefer being town or mafia?

Flea The Magician- Don't let the name fool you, Flea is really more of a sorcerer.

Ydrasse- With both Flea and Ydrasse around its sure to be a magical game.

Infinity 324- If the perfect mafia player would be represented by an infinity score in mafia skill, Infinity’s 324 is a perfect demonstration of the concept of ‘bigger infinities’.

Gloria Cleary- Back when I was new to the site Gloria wasn’t around. That meant I was able to win a few scum games before she arrived and made that essentially impossible. Thanks Gloria.

Morning Tweet- First time I’ve seen this guy with only one head. I’m guessing Hectic thought MT would have two heads this game which is why he buffed the method of day execution to yeeting. Now we won’t have to waste two shots on MT. Thanks Hectic.

TheGoldenParadox- TGP really enjoys getting into heated 1v1s with all of the spectators who thought he was scum in the dead/spectator thread. Everyone watch out for him intentionally going for the self-lethal.

PookyTheMagicalBear- I’m surprised Pooky hasn’t hit eight hundred posts already. I’m concerned he isn’t posting because we aren’t posting enough cute bear gifs and its hurt his feelings. I’m going to ask Morning Tweet and Gypyx to post cute bear gifs until Pooky starts posting more.

skitter30- Very excited that Skitter is playing here. If anyone feels especially appreciative of her play this game then don’t bother making a Skitter30 appreciation topic in the speakeasy. We already have one.

team rocket queen- I’m going to be honest, I’m not sure we’ve met before. This is concerning because that makes you by far the most likely slot in the game to be a Hectic alt. Given the word

royalty

is in the title of the game its basically 100%. Nice try Hectic, but I’ve caught you already.

Gypyx- Nice guy and definitely not softclaiming tracker right now like he did in that other game.

Tayl0r Swift- So Taylor kind of strongly implied I wasn’t cute in another game and it really hurt my feelings. Fortunately, Hectic was there to correct her, but I’m still pretty sad about it. I’d like to hear from Taylor as soon as possible that she isn’t going to make mean statements like that any more.

Hopkirk- Definitely not Hectic playing under Hopkirk’s account while Hopkirk mods the game from Hectic’s account. That would be a real crazy WIFOM move and it’d wiki OMGUS everyone’s POE.

[Hopkirk]

¶

Votecount 1.0

[1] skitter30:

Isis

[12] Not Voting:

Flea The Magician, Ydrasse, Infinity 324, Gloria Cleary, Morning Tweet, TheGoldenParadox, PookyTheMagicalBear, skitter30, team rocket queen, Gypyx, Tayl0r Swift, Hopkirk

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to launch. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-29 09:11:15).

screw you hectic these VC’s are all mine

That's a real Flavour Leaf of a George Bailey you've got going there.

hi Isis hi Ydrasse hi Golden hi skitts hi Tayl0r and hi again Hopkirk!

VOTE: Pooky

Pooookyyyyyyyyy ily

Wow if you were a newbie this would be incredibly scummy. Since you're not then I'll have to give you a solid 'Hi' and sheep you for it.

VOTE: Pooky

[Hopkirk]

hectic and I have been over the greeting tell thing in the past. 2 cancel each other out and I committed...

ah! an even 6.

Ok... but if you greet anyone else then I'm going to stop sheeping you.

hi morning tweet!

hello friends!

i am a vanilla town.

Woah, pretty passive agressive to greet MT separately to greeting 'friends'.
Howdy and hello. How's it feel to know Morning Tweet probably already has you as locktown at this point?

[Hopkirk]

Woah, pretty passive agressive to greet MT separately to greeting 'friends'.
Howdy and hello. How's it feel to know Morning Tweet probably already has you as locktown at this point?

hello. i am not sure if you would count my ever so brief appearance in matrix decipher as having met before. morning tweet and i have met before, however! and i was left off of the 'hi' list, so

Ooh, are you the person we never got a chance to play with? I heard and said a lot of good things about you.

@MT- You've got a read on TRQ at this point right?

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx getting his name misspelt was a pretty big dis from Hectic and I can't say for 100% it wasn't intentional.

I kind of want to lethal Gypyx and Infinity324 here so that I can exclusively claim 'he' as a pronoun.

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx getting his name misspelt was a pretty big dis from Hectic and I can't say for 100% it wasn't intentional.

I kind of want to lethal Gypyx and Infinity324 here so that I can exclusively claim 'he' as a pronoun.

Where did you see that ?

Hm, I thought I copy pasted a list of names from a VC or the signups but they seem to be spelt right and unedited. This is very odd.

and was the game as long to start as this time?

pretty sure the confirm count stayed at 4 for a long time, so maybe Hectic just had stuff to do

As someone with a vague knowledge of hectic's schedule I'd lean against this. I'd need to check role PM's for when it was sent exactly, but I thought they were sent out last night (likely before hectic went to bed) and the game started before he went out shopping.

Flea The Magician- Don't let the name fool you, Flea is really more of a sorcerer.

Ydrasse- With both Flea and Ydrasse around its sure to be a magical game.

Sorcery happens in a flash, magic takes time and effort.

Basically I buy the pre-made tricks and just make them look good


Heeeey Ydrasse, no clue who you are but this seems promising already


VOTE: Hopkirk - You almost made a reference, but failed.

What reference did I almost make? Tone feels odd here.

[Hopkirk]

Ydrasse's avatar used to show a mage but now it doesn't; I think that's what Hopkirk is referring to Flea

Eh, I haven' been around long enough to know this. People seem fascinated with me so I gotta play myself up a bit ya know

Fine, if you didn't know then I'll move you back up from my lockscum to the Guiltylion tier of my reads list.

hi friends!!!!

that WAS personable i put all of my charm into it

Hi

Damn I need popcorn already?

and wtf am I meant to wear to a wedding?! Do I go high femme, femboi, tomboy, or full suit and beard?!

Full plate works imo.

[Hopkirk]

first!

I’d like to hear from Taylor as soon as possible that she isn’t going to make mean statements like that any more.

i never said anything that wasnt true. i AM cuter than you. and i WONT apologize. cant handle it? maybe this isnt the game for you.
VOTE: hopkirk for being needy and not accepting me as the cutest.

@Hectic - can you modkill Taylor for this? She's being really mean again.

[Hopkirk]

How did I forget to comment on pookytheMAGICAL bear when I was saying the game would be magical. Wow.

Getting some legitimately (minor) bad pings from Taylor over the cuteness stuff.

[Hopkirk]

hi friends!!!!

that WAS personable i put all of my charm into it

Hi

(／≧ω＼) hi...

I don't have full plate, I do legit have steel chainmail though.

Haven't worn it in months, I should probably get it out and make sure it's not rusting.

Keep your guard up! This is no ordinary woman! Meet Flea, the magician!

OK I misremembered the quote so I shouldn't really vote you for it, still could've been funny though :3

Flea why do you feel kind of weird?

I'm not sure if TGP treating like, all of the game's content as though it came from a more serious and high information phase than it did is scummy or towny but I am pretty sure on alance it's scummy.

It's a lot easier to play low info stage as scum if you don't have to figure out what's fair to treat as serious cause you just treat everything serious.

Whoa, my cuteness is serious business.

As someone with a vague knowledge of hectic's schedule I'd lean against this. I'd need to check role PM's for when it was sent exactly, but I thought they were sent out last night (likely before hectic went to bed) and the game started before he went out shopping.

What the actual fuck

Don't worry, it's only like 40% as creepy as you're probably thinking. Here's a quick overview:

-Role pms went out this morning.
-Hectic probably went to bed after he sent role pms out based on timezones.
-Game began roughly half a day after this.
-Hectic was probably asleep for most of this time.

-Sometime around eighth tea (lunchtime for you Americans) I asked Hectic if he was up for dnd today. He said he needed to go shopping, but should be able to make it.
-The thread opened about half an hour after this. I posted a bit then had to leave to play dnd.
-The next time I messaged Hectic to see if he was still able to make it he was currently shopping. He still intended to play dnd when he got back.
-Hectic did not manage to make dnd.

[Hopkirk]

Pooky you haven't obvtowned yet. You've obvtowned in all the other games I've played with you. Why aren't you obvtowning?

Hello! VOTE: taylor

uhm. excuse me?

also, hi morning!!!
*flops ears*

hi, taylor! i missed those!!

Getting some legitimately (minor) bad pings from Taylor over the cuteness stuff.

cuteness tells (・・；)

Cuteness tells are serious tells. Stop laughing.

Could someone give an overview of the important mechanics of the last two silent star games? I didn't manage to get into these.

[Hopkirk]

Cuteness tells are serious tells. Stop laughing.

Could someone give an overview of the important mechanics of the last two silent star games? I didn't manage to get into these.

i had a lot of "cuteness tell"-centric bad memories come up just there

Silent Star 1 - All of the town were given werewolf PMs and most were placed into 2-man hoods that they were confirmed to be werewolf-aligned. The confirmation turned out to be a lie, and 3 players were actually mafia infiltrating the wolves

Silent Star 2 - everyone could only speak in animal noises on day 1 and they had to nominate 2 players, but were led to believe it was an elimination until the votes were done. Then, the animal noise restriction went away and people had to justify what they did during the animal speak part and elim 1 out of the 2 nominees. then a bunch of pairing happened depending on whether or not mafia was killed and it went to day 2, i dont really remember how that functioned exactly

I'm very confused. You aren't siding with Taylor here on the 'Hopkirk isn't cute' hate train are you?

In SS2 when you say 'led to believe' it was a nomination was it phrased as though it was (yeeted/lethaled etc) like in this game or did people just assume?

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk is not cute

How could you even say something like that

Time to start playing mafia I guess ._.

Pooky you haven't obvtowned yet. You've obvtowned in all the other games I've played with you. Why aren't you obvtowning?

When did pooky obvtown in matrix decipher? Cause I didn't see it

I'm not sure if TGP treating like, all of the game's content as though it came from a more serious and high information phase than it did is scummy or towny but I am pretty sure on balance it's scummy.

Thoughts on hopkirk reading taylor's cuteness as scummy, or is that a different situation to you?

In Matrix Pooky was locktown for me halfway through his d1 interactions with Isis. When he went hard aoeing. Isis was strong town based on those interactions too. I think I just put Pooky as long town there and never considered reconsidering the read.

[Hopkirk]

How could you even say something like that

Ok the truth is that you're only cute when you're crying so I have to make you cry
Please understand.
I know this might result in us having an unhealthy dynamic but I like cute

Yay

I'm very confused. You aren't siding with Taylor here on the 'Hopkirk isn't cute' hate train are you?

In SS2 when you say 'led to believe' it was a nomination was it phrased as though it was (yeeted/lethaled etc) like in this game or did people just assume?

I got a lot of heat in probably the game i enjoyed the least ever over being "too focused on being cute over playing the game". i still dwell on it sometimes (；-ω-)

Hectic said nothing about special mechanics at the start of Menagerie (other than giving animal noise restrictions). He used the phrasing "X to condemn" which i think was done to trick the players into thinking they were eliminating, so scum would be caught out and have to explain their actions afterwards when picking between the 2 nominees

condemn is not the word he normally uses so i guess if you were really paying attention you'd have known -- but i think the intention was to deceive. Whereas here we're being outright told we just straight up have two eliminations

Given this is launch and Hectic has used launch in several other games to mean eliminate it looks like this is a regular vote. Condemn definitely fits as a phrasing for two possible lethal candidates.

Cutecount 1.0

Hop's cute- Isis, Hectic
Hop's kinda cute- TGP, Morning Tweet
Hopkirk who? - none
Eh- none
Hop's not cute-Taylor

Not voting: Lend, Kanna, Flea The Magician, Ydrasse, Infinity 324, Gloria Cleary, PookyTheMagicalBear, Skitter30, team rocket queen, Gypyx

[Hopkirk]

Hm, would Pooky actually betray Isis if he was bad. Would he start the game like that. That's a good question.

Isis and Infinity seem ok so far.

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk is not cute

isis is conftown

I don't have Hectic and Flopz here for hydra based moral support so it doesn't take more than this to make me cry

[Hopkirk]

Heeeeyyy what? Pooky being adorable is a constant. he has AI traits that he has mentioned (and one i think I may have picked up), but cuteness isn't one of them

I think the bottom line for me is that cuteness shouldn't be used as an alignment indicator

pedit:

looks at Hopkirk reads list

oh.. awkward....

Awkward?

[Hopkirk]

It wasn't a tierlist, it was a summary of whether people have said and/or implied that I was or wasn't cute. I wouldn't want to rank everyone on cuteness or form reads based on it.

[Hopkirk]

The scumpings from Taylor were because she felt excessively mean, like putting on a show mean. I'd expect scum Taylor to be very mean and town Taylor to just be mean, so being very mean makes her slightly scummier. Although maybe she's just having a mean day.

It wasn't a tierlist, it was a summary of whether people have said and/or implied that I was or wasn't cute. I wouldn't want to rank everyone on cuteness or form reads based on it.

Oh i interpreted it as a readlist where you substituted town/scum with cute/not cute but i didn't actually think you were reading off of cuteness dw

I like the misunderstanding.

i mean they're both solving the game

TGP's tone is like D6 eLo tone though

you get what I mean

Is this based on TGP meta or just your thoughts on it?

[Hopkirk]

If we vote Isis and pretend we think she's really suspicious then Pooky is going to be super worried than we legitimately plan to lethal her. Then he's going to be distraught and will obvtown hard. I like your thinking Infinity.

Not really got an opinion either way on TGP yet. I want to move my vote off Pooky.

VOTE: Gypyx

g'night

[Hopkirk]

Hm, would Pooky actually betray Isis if he was bad. Would he start the game like that. That's a good question.

Isis and Infinity seem ok so far.

my track record as S/T vs Isis is abysmal.

Fine, you can both let me know if the other one's being a bad townie and needs a time out from the townbin. I like you both at the moment.

So far - in no particular order - liking Hopkirk, MT, Skitter and probably Infinity and Isis as well.

Why Skitter30 here?

Maybe I’m seeing the same things hopkirk is? I also think taylor is relatively likely to have engaged with me on game-relevant things as town

The aggressive anti-cute stuff felt evasive to some extent. I agree if that's what you mean.

I don't want to scumread Jessie

it's okay not to, i'm town.

Ew

[Hopkirk]

hmm isis's focus on me being serious in rvs is weird but that's a recent playstyle thing of mine and i think more information can be gleaned out of a few opening posts, specifically interactions, and i am liking hopkirk's posting enough to townlean him; both taylor and flea felt off at that point but my flea read is now at dead null

did not know gloria was an alt but that explains a bit
hmm VOTE: isis that's a really off thing to focus on your part

pedit: jesus christ this game is moving fast

I had the same question Gloria had (that you didn't answer) when I read this - what did Gloria being an alt change for you and why did it matter? That comment felt kinda odd.

A scum!Pooky game that recently finished, you mean? i tried looking for it but I can't find it

What did you try here? Gloria has two games.

I have a different paranoia where I remember how many times Hectic has joked to me about running all VT games lol

Don't worry, I've got a good record of guessing Hectic's setup gimmicks in advance. Last time he sent everyone a role pm telling them they were a mafia that didn't know their partners (not super uncommon in that setting) I thought everyone except maybe 2 people got that role pm. I tried to strongly hint this and get confirmation d1. I died n1 after telling Hectic I was sure of this. I think it was early d3 that anyone else considered this.

At the moment it could be anything though. Maybe after we yeet one or two people they get to pick who's scum to avenge them.

It means there’s likely scum in the townbloc.

Size and Quality are different things

btw who are you defining as part of the townbloc right now?

Me, you, isis, ydrasse, hopkirk, jessie

Ok it’s not as big as I thought, I’m probably just projecting because I’m getting townvibes from a bunch of people

Jessie is widely townread?

[Hopkirk]

I'm going to locktown Ydrasse too because a lot of nice people are telling me to.

Idk it's just a pattern that i've noticed, like i guess it could be that they want to be "the guy who was right" or smthing

Um being right about something that town wouldn't have a good reason to know is kind of suspicious no? Why would Jessie do that?

It's the same logic than why you find parteners scummy, and just like bussing, like, peoples do it because they think it's normal to notice that kind of stuff

I'm not a Gypyx fan from the exchange over this. He feels kind of focused/detached form the loveliness of the thread, taking a surgical approach to it instead.

We have a worryingly large townbloc for so early on but ehh

if u put the entire game in a townbloc except like 2-3 ppl who go in a process of elimination, that's just another way to play. I end up doing it like that a lot..

I think she’s likely town here for a lot of reasons but I’m not wrong. Scum doesn’t tell you what to look out for. I trust her way more than Pooky. so if you both assure me he’s town. I’ll trust you on that. I’m probably going to have nightmares about scum teddies tonight.

i suppose i tend to find it towny when someone points to past things that have already occured and say they don't come from scum, as opposed to saying future things they won't do

.. think that makes sense

Try and get as many townreads as possible, accept a deepwolf getting in there, then work through the POE? I like the sound of that.

Dunnstral replaces Tayl0r Swift! Give him the warmest of greetings.

Welcome

MT! Why are you and Infinity voting for my slot

50% of your predecessors posts were about whether Hop is cute or not.

[Hopkirk]

Don't worry, I've got a good record of guessing Hectic's setup gimmicks in advance. Last time he sent everyone a role pm telling them they were a mafia that didn't know their partners (not super uncommon in that setting) I thought everyone except maybe 2 people got that role pm. I tried to strongly hint this and get confirmation d1. I died n1 after telling Hectic I was sure of this. I think it was early d3 that anyone else considered this.

At the moment it could be anything though. Maybe after we yeet one or two people they get to pick who's scum to avenge them.

I was in that game

Did he run that on mafiascum somewhere too (would be interested in link if so)? I was talking about when he ran it over discord with

(Redacted)

[Hopkirk]

I fee like I should be townreading Gloria by now and I'm not. The Skitter30/Gloria interactions tasted a bit weird.

My town atm is (Isis/Pooky/Ydrasse/Infinity) with a maybe on MT. Everyone else I need more on than I've got.

[Hopkirk]

Looks like that game was a test run for silent star. Personally I spent most of day 1 in my run of it trying to hint at something with another player through word associations that I thought another scum would pick up on while doing setup spec with them and trying to hint in a way other scum would see.

It sounds like it was a trial run for silent star 1. I think in the one I'm talking about, all of the town were just told they didn't know their partners and didn't have the factional kill (but were sided with the scum).

Try and get as many townreads as possible, accept a deepwolf getting in there, then work through the POE? I like the sound of that.

Yes! That's my playstyle because i am terrible at finding scum. the only issues that arise are A.) sometimes i get scum in the PoE, but miss inside of the PoE and B.) i am bad at reevaluating already cemented townreads so finding any deepwolves is pain

Or maybe it's because i used to give out townreads way too easily. i tell myself i don't do that anymore, but then wonder what went wrong when I run out of people I'm

not

townreading

Also how I've said I like to do it in the past. Nice.
What I've found helpful is the realization that most the scum are usually inside your light townreads- people you aren't scumreading but don't feel like they should be put in the locktown block.

I fee like I should be townreading Gloria by now and I'm not. The Skitter30/Gloria interactions tasted a bit weird.

My town atm is (Isis/Pooky/Ydrasse/Infinity) with a maybe on MT. Everyone else I need more on than I've got.

This is the kind of post we come back to later if you flip scum

hm?

[Hopkirk]

hm?

That is what it reminds me of When you list a bunch of town which are generally consensus reads, say you should be townreading someone but don't act on that, two people's interactions are weird etc.

Also that game

was

silent star

I townread all of those slots except Ydrasse (who 3 of my TRs and several other people TR so is town) very early in. Do you have any specific problems with my progression or the reads on them, because I was one of the first to state most of those reads. Shading me for having common townreads when it's more of a townblock is really odd.

I'm acting on it by saying it and paying attention to responses. I don't understand what you mean by 'not acting on it'. You can fish for responses without a vote, sometimes it works even better.

Plus I'm voting someone I have bad pings on for other reasons? I don't like how you're trying to shade me not voting Skitter30/Gloria?

I know that game was silent star. It was in the title. I never said anything that remotely implied I didn't know this?

The Skitter30/Gloria interactions tasted a bit weird.

Can you explain this for me though. Are you suspecting Skitter too?

Gloria obvtowned in 20 posts last time we played and hasn't in 90 this game to me. That's a cause for concern.
Skitter30 I haven't played with, but she feels like she's occupying the light-town zone that scum crawl into. I want a lot more from her.
Also as I've said, my style is gather a solid set of townreads then do POE.

Awaiting responses. Feel free to throw in as much toxicity as you want because it'll make me cry and then Isis will be happy.

[Hopkirk]

Skitter/Gloria both read aren't jumping out as obvtown but are giving slight townpings which concerns me. I'd like to sort both through the art of talking and/or sheeping
I'm not going to put any stock in associative pre flip 2 days into a game, but their pushes on neither of their pushes on each other screamed town.
Skitter/Dunnstral is always a possibly too.

[Hopkirk]

pedit - I already had a meh read on Taylor and I feel like you came into this intending to try and start a minor conflict with me then intended to back off. Skitter30 I have as null at the moment.

Skitter30/Dunnstral is partially serious based on me thinking 'I wonder if Skitter30 knew about the Taylor ban so quickly because partners', and your question choice on me. It was also in part a joke about me saying 'whoa it's too early for associatives' then mentioning another associative - so I'd have tried to find an associative between you and someone there even if that wasn't there.

Awaiting responses. Feel free to throw in as much toxicity as you want because it'll make me cry and then Isis will be happy.

Me?

Yes. You were the only person I quoted there and there's questions either asked or implied.

(The last line isn't intended to imply you're toxic at all, its in reference to something Isis said earlier. Plus I was talking to Flopz the other day so I've got those major flashes of intense toxic 1v1s just flashing through my head).

[Hopkirk]

Early on, not specifically the first for all, but I had those 3 townread/developing TRs before I went to bed last night. Ydrasse also got added more recently.

To restate, I'm not yet 'suspicious' of Skitter30, I thought I clarified that. I'm null-town reading her, and given my gut null-town at this stage of the game flip scum more than my guy scum reads at this stage, and because she hasn't jumped out as townie yet, she's someone I'm cautious off. I've also been told Skitter30 is very good, so caution. I think Hectic had in his top (somewhere between 1-3) of either players or scumplayers.

I don't see why scattering votes a bit is bad. This is one day into the game. Plus if I voted either of them then that would be a lone wagon? Wouldn't you criticize a vote on either of them as a lone vote in the same way as you are this one?

Scum partner would be marginally more likely to notice/discuss the replace out I'd say. This isn't more than a 0.5% movement in a read though, just why I picked that pairing since I needed

a

reason.

[Hopkirk]

I'm getting a strong urge to put flea in the townbin then walk away slowly and carefully without making too much eye contact. Mostly because it's hard to look at them while they're on my back.

.g.dty

gvfj6y76uew5

@Lend

The following is a list of outlawed shenanigans:
Using invisible text, codes, cryptography, etc.

Can you have a word with hectic about this.

[Hopkirk]

Hey Dunn, how come you're now the lone vote on a wagon

[Hopkirk]

If infinity flips red here this might mean our entire townbloc is green

i was kinda thinking of that wrt ydrasse on that previous page

You think scum Ydrasse?? ?

'I wonder if Skitter30 knew about the Taylor ban so quickly because partners'

i have the ban thread bookmarked
i'm not sure what you're trying to say wrt the gloria/me thing

You both light pushed each other then quickly backed off in an eh manner. I'll quote when I've read the next page.

I fee like I should be townreading Gloria by now and I'm not. The Skitter30/Gloria interactions tasted a bit weird.

My town atm is (Isis/Pooky/Ydrasse/Infinity) with a maybe on MT. Everyone else I need more on than I've got.

Why? What was weird about them? There are a lot of things that are very similar here to that game but not everything. I was totally lost in that game (in the beginning anyway) and being V/LA for almost a week didn’t help matters.

Your early stuff was a lot more focused. Here your style is a lot more jokey/floppy rather than laser foucsed on content.

Skitter/Gloria both read aren't jumping out as obvtown but are giving slight townpings which concerns me. I'd like to sort both through the art of talking and/or sheeping
I'm not going to put any stock in associative pre flip 2 days into a game, but their pushes on neither of their pushes on each other screamed town.
Skitter/Dunnstral is always a possibly too.

Why would getting “slight townpings” concern you ever?

Because in most games I've played recently scum are the people who light townping early on, not the people you hard scumread. The null-town-i-guess zone doesn't get voted out day 1.

[Hopkirk]

To me, dunn feels like a player who’s more comfortable with mechanics/fact-based things than describing reads, so I don’t think that’s super out of character? Tbf I can’t particularly read dunn, but the push felt like it was motivated by moving the game forward, and I got townvibes from hopkirk’s defense.

i'm not sure i agree with that assessment of dunn?
and i kinda wanna reserve judgement on hopkirk until i can talk to him about the me/gloria thing

he's pushing

, as i'm finding it to be a bit puzzling

Yeah you'e putting a whole lot of words in my mouth Skitter30. You're responding like I hard scumread you here Skitter30.

[Hopkirk]

i've never played iwth him, idk, but what i've seen from him in the speakeasy, he does have a peculiar sense of humor
the way he then explained it seems kinda on-brand for his sense of humor; i don't think that was meant to be taken too seriously

gloria have you been in alts with me before / would you be surprised to learn that i think i know who you are?

Oh, nevermind the above post.

ok tbh i wasn't in or involved in the game you're referencing and i'm not super sure what point you're making wrt that game

what i was saying with isis and ydrasse is that in ydrasse's original post, i don't see her starting out with logic and then moving to gut; it looks entirely like a gut-based read to me
like i'm not sure that the analysis isis is tryign to make actually matches the post ydrasse made ...

I’m disputing that scum are necessarily good at being logical. Well if you’re interested, ISO Titus in that. I don’t really understand what she meant but I agree with her conclusions on Ydrasse being town.

How do you read Hopkirk/Dunn interactions?

To me, dunn feels like a player who’s more comfortable with mechanics/fact-based things than describing reads, so I don’t think that’s super out of character? Tbf I can’t particularly read dunn, but the push felt like it was motivated by moving the game forward, and I got townvibes from hopkirk’s defense.

i'm not sure i agree with that assessment of dunn?
and i kinda wanna reserve judgement on hopkirk until i can talk to him about the me/gloria thing he's pushing, as i'm finding it to be a bit puzzling

+1

The Tayl0r/you thing is even stranger. Is Hopkirk usually this reachy?

It feels like you're pushing Skitter30 at me here while trying to stand back yourself Gloria. It feels more pushy than questiony.

[Hopkirk]

So far - in no particular order - liking Hopkirk, MT, Skitter and probably Infinity and Isis as well.

To answer your question i feel like jessie's thoughts going through the setup spec went through a genuine progression and I more or less ended up in a similar place to her on the confirmation issue we discussed

I also think if scum

did

actually make pregame choices, that's town indicative for her

Why though? Like imo it's the opposite, if scum did pregame choices, it's more likely that jessie is scum

Why? I’m currently nullreading them. I feel the most confident on MT, Isis and Ydrasee and probably Skitter.

@Dunn- hm, how did you have more of an issue with my reads being 'consensusy' but not Gloria's?
@Gloria - got any hot take reads? Your read change was basically a swap from Infinity (who some people including Pooky had moved to scum on) over to Ydrasse- and all of these reads are pretty uncontroversial TRs over the game.

[Hopkirk]

I'll be back in ~20 mins then can respond in real time to anything you wanted to discuss Skitter30.

[Hopkirk]

@Gloria - your posts prior to v/la leading up to the end of the day. Maybe a very small bit at end of day, but I'm fairly sure I strong TR you a while before then.

I'll be back in ~20 mins then can respond in real time to anything you wanted to discuss Skitter30.

cool
might have to bounce before u get back tho

I am now around.

i mean, what word would you like me to use instead? i'm not really sure how you can extrapolate from what i've written that i think you hard scumread me just now
i do think that you thought that there's something going on btwn me/gloria, and i don't fully follow your reasoning, which is why i wanted to talk to u abt it

r u saying that u think me/gloria have partner equity?

You said I was ‘pushing’ it and made a lot of posts about it. I said I got very light pings. It sounded a lot like you were trying to make it look like I had a much stronger read than the ‘essentially null’ that I had.

Oh, nevermind the above post.

Was me redacting that comment because you then said you thought I was being jokey there which is the opposite of the narrative I was considering a scum-Skitter30 attempting to create.

how are you reading me and gloria rn ?

You – true null
Gloria – Lower half. I'm going to need some good old Pooky thoughts on this one

[Hopkirk]

Spoiler:

i've never played iwth him, idk, but what i've seen from him in the speakeasy, he does have a peculiar sense of humor
the way he then explained it seems kinda on-brand for his sense of humor; i don't think that was meant to be taken too seriously

gloria have you been in alts with me before / would you be surprised to learn that i think i know who you are?

Oh, nevermind the above post.

ok tbh i wasn't in or involved in the game you're referencing and i'm not super sure what point you're making wrt that game

what i was saying with isis and ydrasse is that in ydrasse's original post, i don't see her starting out with logic and then moving to gut; it looks entirely like a gut-based read to me
like i'm not sure that the analysis isis is tryign to make actually matches the post ydrasse made ...

I’m disputing that scum are necessarily good at being logical. Well if you’re interested, ISO Titus in that. I don’t really understand what she meant but I agree with her conclusions on Ydrasse being town.

How do you read Hopkirk/Dunn interactions?

To me, dunn feels like a player who’s more comfortable with mechanics/fact-based things than describing reads, so I don’t think that’s super out of character? Tbf I can’t particularly read dunn, but the push felt like it was motivated by moving the game forward, and I got townvibes from hopkirk’s defense.

i'm not sure i agree with that assessment of dunn?
and i kinda wanna reserve judgement on hopkirk until i can talk to him about the me/gloria thing he's pushing, as i'm finding it to be a bit puzzling

+1

The Tayl0r/you thing is even stranger. Is Hopkirk usually this reachy?

It feels like you're pushing Skitter30 at me here while trying to stand back yourself Gloria. It feels more pushy than questiony.

I don’t understand what interactions you’re referring to between Skitter/Tayl0r and her post about the ban thread does seem reachy to me. I also don’t see what you find weird about our interactions?

I find your, Tayl0r/Dunn interactions kind of odd but it’s more Dunn’s entrance. Idk, something odd is going on possibly? on one or both your ends?

Unlike Skitter30, it feels like you

are

trying to present my Skitter30/Taylor thing as a LOT more important to me than it was. You're acting like an associative I mentioned while saying that assocatives don't work this early + a null read on Skitter30 is a strong scumread on you/Skitter30. I think you're reaching a lot to get my reads to fit what you want them to here.

[Hopkirk]

So far - in no particular order - liking Hopkirk, MT, Skitter and probably Infinity and Isis as well.

To answer your question i feel like jessie's thoughts going through the setup spec went through a genuine progression and I more or less ended up in a similar place to her on the confirmation issue we discussed

I also think if scum

did

actually make pregame choices, that's town indicative for her

Why though? Like imo it's the opposite, if scum did pregame choices, it's more likely that jessie is scum

Why? I’m currently nullreading them. I feel the most confident on MT, Isis and Ydrasee and probably Skitter.

@Dunn- hm, how did you have more of an issue with my reads being 'consensusy' but not Gloria's?
@Gloria - got any hot take reads? Your read change was basically a swap from Infinity (who some people including Pooky had moved to scum on) over to Ydrasse- and all of these reads are pretty uncontroversial TRs over the game.

I was questioning my Infinity read but I’m not particularly worried about him rn, so I don’t understand what your point is? My tr on Ydrasse is a lot stronger. So, it’s bad to mindmeld with my townreads?

Having a townblock is fine. I agreed with your stance here when I responded to Dunn that mine was fine.
My implied question to you is what you think of Dunn taking that stance on me (but not on you) and you not commenting on him not liking my stance when you and I share a stance.

[Hopkirk]

Spoiler:

@Gloria - your posts prior to v/la leading up to the end of the day. Maybe a very small bit at end of day, but I'm fairly sure I strong TR you a while before then.

I'll be back in ~20 mins then can respond in real time to anything you wanted to discuss Skitter30.

cool
might have to bounce before u get back tho

I am now around.

i mean, what word would you like me to use instead? i'm not really sure how you can extrapolate from what i've written that i think you hard scumread me just now
i do think that you thought that there's something going on btwn me/gloria, and i don't fully follow your reasoning, which is why i wanted to talk to u abt it

r u saying that u think me/gloria have partner equity?

You said I was ‘pushing’ it and made a lot of posts about it. I said I got very light pings. It sounded a lot like you were trying to make it look like I had a much stronger read than the ‘essentially null’ that I had.

Oh, nevermind the above post.

Was me redacting that comment because you then said you thought I was being jokey there which is the opposite of the narrative I was considering a scum-Skitter30 attempting to create.

how are you reading me and gloria rn ?

You – true null
Gloria – Lower half. I'm going to need some good old Pooky thoughts on this one

So, you’re sr me for being jokey because I was serious during a critical part of Death Scroll? Pooky has me as one of his strongest trs. Are you not reading?

What?
@Gloria - your posts prior to v/la leading up to the end of the day. Maybe a very small bit at end of day, but I'm fairly sure I strong TR you a while before then.

I literally just said I was talking about the early part of Death Scroll. Prior to v/la and leading up to end of day (first lethal) + a small bit around end of day.
How are you reading this as a 'critical' part?

[Hopkirk]

Pooky TRing you doesn't mean much unless he can convince me of it. I didn't ask Pooky

if

he townread you so I don't know why you're sarcastically asking if i'm reading.

[Hopkirk]

Spoiler:

@Gloria - your posts prior to v/la leading up to the end of the day. Maybe a very small bit at end of day, but I'm fairly sure I strong TR you a while before then.

I'll be back in ~20 mins then can respond in real time to anything you wanted to discuss Skitter30.

cool
might have to bounce before u get back tho

I am now around.

i mean, what word would you like me to use instead? i'm not really sure how you can extrapolate from what i've written that i think you hard scumread me just now
i do think that you thought that there's something going on btwn me/gloria, and i don't fully follow your reasoning, which is why i wanted to talk to u abt it

r u saying that u think me/gloria have partner equity?

You said I was ‘pushing’ it and made a lot of posts about it. I said I got very light pings. It sounded a lot like you were trying to make it look like I had a much stronger read than the ‘essentially null’ that I had.

Oh, nevermind the above post.

Was me redacting that comment because you then said you thought I was being jokey there which is the opposite of the narrative I was considering a scum-Skitter30 attempting to create.

how are you reading me and gloria rn ?

You – true null
Gloria – Lower half. I'm going to need some good old Pooky thoughts on this one

So, you’re sr me for being jokey because I was serious during a critical part of Death Scroll? Pooky has me as one of his strongest trs. Are you not reading?

What?
@Gloria -

your posts prior to v/la

leading up to the end of the day. Maybe a very small bit at end of day, but I'm fairly sure I strong TR you a while before then.

I literally just said I was talking about

the early part

of Death Scroll. Prior to v/la and leading up to end of day (first lethal) + a small bit around end of day.
How are you reading this as a 'critical' part?

You don’t think LLD scroll pass was “critical”? Seriously?

????

I've said twice now this isn't the part of the game I was talking about and you've insisted it is three times. Are you reading my posts?

[Hopkirk]

Pooky should I Trust what Gloria is Telling me here?

[Hopkirk]

Are you SRing Gypyx and Dunnstral Pooky?

[Hopkirk]

Imagine being Gypyx here and getting hit this hard with a bunch of large blocks.

[Hopkirk]

Where have we met before, I don't remember seeing you in Matrix.

[Hopkirk]

Oh you answered that. I should read people's posts.

[Hopkirk]

You feel very nullish. What are your reads looking like Jessie?

[Hopkirk]

@Gloria - like your first 20 back when I didn't realize you were going to start hyperposting. Look at the posts you made before I was saying I like Gloria. Its like your first 20-30.

You accepted it in DC and I saw you say several times about my townread on you (although I stopped following DC early D2 because it was still getting a lot of pages every day)

[Hopkirk]

Where have we met before, I don't remember seeing you in Matrix.

i was danica, who had to be replaced due to being added to the wrong pt, and then i ascended to t r i n i t y

which i believe you had to have known to have said earlier that you said kind things about me!?

I noticed after I posted and went back through your iso quickly yeah.
We are all truly blessed that there have been no mod errors concerned you this time.

[Hopkirk]

You feel very nullish. What are your reads looking like Jessie?

i do feel nullish to me as well. no particularly strong reads, just some thoughts/feelings. dunnstral wants me to place a vote so i will get on this shortly.

Can you point out two things in your iso you think are townish?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Hopkirk]

hopkirk is town imo

(and i'd rank him above 'eh' on the cuteness scale, but don't tell him i said that :p)

i would like to pressure tgp more and i'm not sure i see what people are seeing gypyx

also i think hopkirk has gotten a bunch of townreads and i'm not really seeing it yet

hm?

[Hopkirk]

basically it feels like 575 should come after 576 but it comes before

Skitter30 had asked me to interact in real time with her before that.

i think gloria purporting that she is isn't scummy and sort of being defensive about it is towny. Particularly the "are you even reading?" part. like it's really obvious to her. From what i gather, Hopkirk is arguing that she seems different from death scroll, and she responded that because Pooky is TRing her, that read is invalid

i'd be a bit surprised if that sort of tone comes from scum, although I dont really know Gloria (to my knowledge)

I'm townreading Gloria currently.

I think scum ends up in the null town area a decent amount, although it's player dependent as well as dependent on how far we are into the game whether i'd maintain paranoia of them or not

like D1 i use everything i can

If you write off townleans because being towny is inherently scummy then i think that's a problem, but i lean against that being whats happening

Flopz in Matrix (1/2)
Death curse (for me) - Noraa, Zdenek, Lapsa (the majority of my 'null-town/not fully sorted' level reads/ people that weren't in my townblock or scumreads eventually flipped scum).

I could go through more games, but I don't remember a recent game where a decent amount of the scumteam hasn't been in the 'gut slight townlean' section of my reads at the start of d1 (improves as the game progresses, but d1 it isn't especially helpful).

[Hopkirk]

How are you feeling on these slots Isis:

-TGP
-Jessie
-Dunn
-Gypx

-Skitter30

[Hopkirk]

@Pooky- is there any reason to think the princess isn't just evil.

[Hopkirk]

(Skitter30/Gypyx/Dunn) are the slots I'm not a fan of at the moment.

[Hopkirk]

Why is gypyx town?

+1

@TGP

+3 if you count me and Isis.

[Hopkirk]

I don't get TGP's defense of gypyx in 725, but I kind of liked TGP in it. Will be interesting to see why he's such a big wagon right now.

tgp looks like a gypyx partner

I didn't like any of Skitter30's posting on this page and am especially curious on this. I don't get pushing this association.

Anyone play with Hopkirk as scum? I’m only familiar with his town meta. Wrt to TGP, only connection I see with Gypyx other than TGP hard defending him, is that they both seem to be focused on Jessie but neither has voted there.

I've never seen Hopkirk play scum.

I kind of assume by now he's affected by Hectic's supreme town aura.

Or there's just a magical force shield over England that keeps the boys over there from getting red pms.

I'm on about a 25 game/2.5 year towngame streak for (full length) forum games. I couldn't tell you how I'd play scum at this point, so 'similar' or 'different' play vibes are probably going to be generally good.

Technically since I shifted playstyles a lot after Hectic joined the site, 'making a lot of jokes' is something I've only done as town. If I was memeing a lot in team mafia then Kuribo would probably try and get me modkilled for making a lot of jokes

[Hopkirk]

what is the point of going against the grain and defending Gypx as Golden? They spent a significant amount of their time doing that as opposed to other things, and i struggle to see why scum does that without pushing a new suspect

ah, i suppose they voted Dunn but they spent about 10 words on that and like 100s on Gypx. am I misunderstanding the golden wagon?

+1

I like Dunn's explanation for voting TGP. I think maybe he was repeating himself? so I maybe feel bad for not hearing it before. VOTE: TGP
This is E1.

Tweet, Pooky and I don't necessarily solve eachother. I don't think I've ever rolled scum against him and he's pretty slow to townread me when we're T-T and he's stated between games he thinks I would just hoodwink him if I ever rolled scum. That's probably just humility but there's not really any affirmative reason to think he knows how to read me.

I don't want to respond to Jessie's last post because I think we might be talking past eachother and I want to start fresh with her.
I don't want to get stuck in ruts this game.

Skitter's "case" makes me disappointed that's a vanity wagon I'm moving off of, ontop of Infinity's point tons of the reads I presented were from Hopkirk specifically asking me about people, which tends to mean it's people I didn't comment on in the first place specifically because my thoughts were weak and in both directions. It's such a lazy copypasta tell and all the times I've seen it used effectively it's been possible to point at a read that ought to be firm in that phase of game.

Actually VOTE: skitter, I have five days to be vain.
I don't think pressure is going to make or break how TGP gets sorted anyway, the way they play mafia.

I was also asking you about people in my POE because sheeping TRs is smart even if they sometimes say mean things and poke you.

this playerlist is amazing.

agreement

leave hoppy alone

if you could look at 575 and explain it in the context of the skitter/hopkirk interactions surrounding it to me i think that would be productive.

to me it feels like, if i think of each of their statements to eachother in that time period as certain colors, and then close my eyes and try to put them in the right order it comes out differently from how it is

or if it was like tennis it feels like 575 is hopkirk attempting to serve while skitter has the ball

I think 575 was like, “I know you wanted to engage with me, I have to go now here’s when I can do it in real time”. I think hopkirk saw skitter posting and didn’t want her to be confused when he left for a bit.

This, but the biggest part is I interpreted 'talk' from Skitter30 as 'talk in real time'

i'm having a bad mental health day. i will try to be here later tonight but we will see

This is also @anyone else who wants it.

Now you’re sus on Skitter? What happened to me being in your PoE?

no i am suspicious of hopkirk, and one of the reasons i can think of for why that post feels so off to me is that it was a coordinated thing

I don't really get your read? It feels kinda convoluted/overthought so it's not easy to address.

[Hopkirk]

What if we are in the world with a scum flagbearer and that's what the delay in the pre-game was rather than just Hectic stalling because Death Curse hadn't finished yet?

What if the flagbearer was actually a lamp-bearer?

What if inside the lamp was a Genie who had magical powers such as the ability to nightkill?

What if Dunnstral is holding the lamp and TGP's silly charade is to keep his friend Dunnstral safe?

Tweetie do you see where I'm going with this? ~.~ ~.~

Am I missing something, or is the 'delay' people are talking about something other than

the hours that Hectic would have been asleep

He posted at what was already a late time in the UK (fix your sleep schedule Hectic ) and then the game started the kind of time I'd expect him to wake up.

The obvious cause of the delay seems to be that Hectic was unconscious, and I'm fairly sure nobody knocked him out the night before

[Hopkirk]

I need to spend more time treasuring Flea and abusing Hopkirk

hopkirk,

is Isis town here?

I like her for town yes.
I also like enough people that my POE is getting reeeeeeally worryingly small which makes me wonder if Hectic is messing with us somehow tbh.
I like MT and Gloria more than I did before, and nobody I already liked has dipped down, which gives me like only 4 slots I don't like & have several townreads also liking.

[Hopkirk]

I don't fully get the wagon on TGP atm Pooky, could you give me some thoughts there?

VOTE: Skitter30

[Hopkirk]

I'm saying Hectic went to bed at or later than 4.30 am at least one night this week.
Although between you, me, the rest of the thread, the spectators, the admins, the many many comods, and the spectators, Hectic isn't particularly drug resistant...

[Hopkirk]

I sure hope Hectic and him comods are ok. We've only had 13 votecounts in 3.5 days. We had 9 votecounts in the first 2 days so they've really been dropped of. Now we're only getting a little over two a day. Is everyone ok in the flavour mines?

[Hopkirk]

(Dunn/Skitter30/Gypyx/Jessie) is the people I don't have good vibes on.
It's also to some extent concerning overlapping with people not approaching the game in a certain way.

TGP isn't really a

townread

but I initially got bad vibes from, there's a couple of things that seem weird from scum, and my POE hates them, so they get townpoints for that.

[Hopkirk]

i'll talk to you in a second hopkirk just realized something

in real time?

[Hopkirk]

Normally I don't think Hectic likes third parties. He's ok with cults as solo scum faction and ok with other TPs that are integrated into stuff, but I feel like he doesn't massively like jesters. Maybe apprentice and recursive jesters, but I don't see that being the setup.

... ok? want to go in more detail at all? :/


also

*CLINGS TO HOPPY*

hugs are the best :3

Spoiler:

I don't really get your read? It feels kinda convoluted/overthought so it's not easy to address.

maybe it is convoluted/overthought. that is why i ask other people, because i am aware that things sometimes get stuck in my mind. isis mentioned ame recently and they are one of my favourite players because they are willing to spend the time to try to see things the way i am and then say, 'jessie i don't think this one makes sense' or 'you might be on to something here' and they like, help me be useful. i get that that's like a big burden for someone, so maybe all of town can share it here.

I don't really see what your problem is? Like I see what you're saying, but I don't understand which bit of it is the problem.

[Hopkirk]

I don't really see what your problem is? Like I see what you're saying, but I don't understand which bit of it is the problem.

it just felt like you were saying it to say it there. like it didn't make sense to me as it was, like it felt planned or coordinated. because of how it wasn't right to me. i can kinda see it like infinity said and you say you thought of talk as in real time and yeah, i can see that, just didn't feel like natural path of conversation to me but enough others seem to think it is nothing for me to think maybe it is nothing.

How natural do I feel in general. Open question

[Hopkirk]

How natural do I feel in general.

i think some of your posts feel preplanned in a nai way, like your playerlist post at the beginning of this game.

but by natural path of conversation i meant more about it being out of time. like the impetus for you saying it felt like you had planned it perhaps.

I'm sad that you doubt my ability to rapidly generate (hopefully) high quality comedic content without needing to consider it first.
Most of my long monologues are typed out as the words come into my head. That's why there's a lot of spelling mistakes where I mistyped stuff.

So if I get your view it's something like
-Skitter30 asks Hopkirk to talk
-Hopkirk makes some posts responding to Skitter30
-Hopkirk, having responded to Skitter30, sounds as though he's still inviting Skitter30 to talk to him
This sound about right?

[Hopkirk]

I'm sad that you doubt my ability to rapidly generate (hopefully) high quality comedic content without needing to consider it first.
Most of my long monologues are typed out as the words come into my head. That's why there's a lot of spelling mistakes where I mistyped stuff.

So if I get your view it's something like
-Skitter30 asks Hopkirk to talk
-Hopkirk makes some posts responding to Skitter30
-Hopkirk, having responded to Skitter30, sounds as though he's still inviting Skitter30 to talk to him
This sound about right?

nonono, i mean preplanned as in, 'i am going to make a playerlist post', not prewritten. i quite enjoy your sense of humour. i was quite excited for the opportunity to play with you in matrix decipher, as hectic or bugspray could tell you, and that was part of my great disappointment in having to be replaced.

yes. like i assume that skitter will respond to my posts, and then if she is posting and i want to discuss with her in real time, i can just then respond to her posts. but it seemed like you were, as you say, inviting skitter to talk to you even though you had already responded to her and were waiting for her to respond.

I thought 'I should make a playerlist guide' and I wrote it. It's a pretty genuine thought process.
I didn't think I'd responded to Skitter30's stuff. Maybe I had, but I don't remember answering her questions on that in my lead up to that last post.

[Hopkirk]

I don't see the two Jesters scenario

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Dunn

[Hopkirk]

I kinda get a bit bored when i've got a solid townblock and have been pretty busy this weekend. My reads haven't really changed tbh, but not having read the thread is probably a decent part of that.
I'll catch up tomorrow. If I don't then I deserve however mean Isis is afterwards

[Hopkirk]

i'm probably gonna just read the last twenty pages then post some thoughts, i'm too generally tired to go through post by post atm

[Hopkirk]

What's a quick rundown of your reads list? We know your townlist, but little else.

town: gypyx, infinity, hopkirk
townlean: ydrasse, gloria, morning tweet, pooky
nulltown: jessie, isis
nullscum: flea
scumlean: dunn
scum: skitter

What townie has obvtown Flea as “nullscum”?

They also hasn’t explained any of reads save Gypyx or why they think Skitter isn’t playing to her town meta or whatever?

I think it’s interesting to note that both TGP and Hopkirk switched from Dunn to Skitter. So @Hopkirk, what is your current read on TGP?

i know they've flipped now but i was reading them as town but town-in-a-POE-that's-small-enough-i-wouldn't-oppose-a-flip-on-them

As of where i am like idk p56 or something the obvtown are (Flea/Pooky/Infinity/Morning/Isis) and people i'm townreading based on sheeping reads are (Gloria/Ydrasse)

[Hopkirk]

@Flea if TGP does flip scum, why are you so sure Hopkirk can’t be a buddy? I’m still not convinced on Dunn though. I still think he could be scum here but imo, TGP!scum definitely increases the likelihood of suspicion on the Skitter wagon, with of course the exception of Isis.

*swats and sulks*

Admittedly my love for hoppy has fallen with his inactivity and I'm considering questioning my town read having read the ISOs I have

</3

Oh and @Flea, I don’t necessarily I think Dunn calling you a tr here is a pocket unless you want to define that term very broadly. Calling a consensus tr “town” isn’t much of a pocket imo.

Swing and a miss ^_^ Was more before it was the first time I saw me mentioned

this is very sad and makes me even more upset with myself for not being around. bad hopkirk

hopkirk i am contemplating voting for u, btw when u get back

and?
like what's the point of this post even

And the resistance was in fact to tgp

no

[Hopkirk]

i mean i read the last what 20 pages again there and nothing changed for me tbh. Dunn/Skitter30 are way below everyone else

i lost a quote from Skitter30 earlier there where i was gonna say something like they felt like they were really positioning themselves for post flip when they did some shading of Isis pre flip - which did get followed up with an isis vote- but i lost that somewhere and who cares if i quote it or not tbh you get the point

VOTE: Dunn I don't really care between Dunn/Skitter30 right now, my current POE is small

[Hopkirk]

i'm kind of tired or in a slightly different headspace rigt now and i don't really follow you jessie can you rephrase that or something

[Hopkirk]

and ready to go! or like fall over on the table works too i guess idk
what are you thinking at the moment Flea?

[Hopkirk]

I hope i didn't accidently refer to Skitter30 as anything other than Skitter30 when i was catching up earlier, i might have forgot i was doing that

i'm kind of tired or in a slightly different headspace rigt now and i don't really follow you jessie can you rephrase that or something

like it felt like another example of communication between you and skitter which felt out of place to me, but you saying, 'and what of it? why are you making this post' seems more along the lines of how i was thinking about it

i got the same vibe from it that i did from Skitter30's earlier post where Skitter30 was shading Isis, like she's trying to lay some foundation before she makes each move so it looks more like its coming from somewhere/backed up when it doesn't read as super natural to me

[Hopkirk]

is it because my magic presence disappeared

[Hopkirk]

I could see Hectic running a game that's initially all VT.
Then we vote two people out.
Then they want revenge and pick scum or something.

[Hopkirk]

I don't think he's done that to me but he might have.

The worst is probably a setup where there was a town where Hectic hadn't realized the town didn't technically have a majority d1 and the non town non mafia people didn't have an incentive to vote out mafia (although the mafia kind of did, because I at least realized instantly at least one mafia must be some form of traitor)

[Hopkirk]

This was ages ago.
He seems to be a big fan of Donnie Brasco mafia as of a few weeks ago so probably not.

[Hopkirk]

i mean he does have 2 co-mods...

[Hopkirk]

yeah hectic does like undertale. I've tried to fight the main boss in the opening room by just like spinning around for thirty minutes but they make you fight all of the other ones first

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Lend

I'd say more but sitting down is kind of painful at the moment because isis is a meanie

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: hectic

This is so dumb.

[Hopkirk]

because my townreads aren't going to vote anywhere else until I do and isis is probably going to start balled up paper at me again if I don't

[Hopkirk]

i'm not sure i was clear earlier...

this is REALLY dumb

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Dunn

[Hopkirk]

anyone want to abandon the game and just like idk hang out?

[Hopkirk]

we didn't deserve Lend and Kanna

[Hopkirk]

then vote someone jessie

[Hopkirk]

wow people are garbage at reading me lol

[Hopkirk]

this is on you

[Hopkirk]

He was a lot less towny when I voted him, lol

I thought his response to pooky’s pressure yesterday and your pressure today was towny, plus the thing with the wagons that makes sense in my head.

I obviously meant Hopkirk.

It wasn't obvious actually, but you've clarified now.

Pretty strong proof we should have eliminated players until Hopkirk had unilateral control of the "he" pronoun though

yay, vindication

I'm still at Skitter/Dunn scum. I'd like to vote Skitter. I think I'm voting Dunn. Nobody seems to have a reason behind vibes so i'm... not interesting in caring about the game enough to go through it again. if people want to vote skitter or dunn then let me know

[Hopkirk]

i'm aware i'm not hammered btw, i'm just surprised i'm in a game full of people i've played with a lot recently who seem to have... 0 ability to read me

and there's nothing i like about skitter still VOTE: skitter30 or dunn. but nobody seems to care w/e

[Hopkirk]

there's nothing i can say to 'derp vibes' when nobody wants to vote scum

[Hopkirk]

wow people are garbage at reading me lol

this is on you

So convince us then on I’m assuming Dunn?

how about you actually read the game. i've just finished one game where literally zero people in the town bothered to do anything, i spent the whole game pushing scum, got the scumteam, and we lost because apparently i'm the only person who cares

i'm tired of shouting at people to read stuff and i'm not going to have energy to case people for a while at this rate because nobody caring in that game drained me beyond the point of caring

[Hopkirk]

that's unecessarily aggressive hopkirk and i'm not confident enough in my reads to be saying 'can you read my game' sorry

[Hopkirk]

i'm going to exist now

what's the latest argument going on, I can't tell where dyslexia came into it?

[Hopkirk]

Currently going through isos. Starting with Isis

@Gloria
i don't get why you brought it up?

my understanding of the flow (might involve missing posts)

-Flea is generally confused with the game
-Gloria uses the term lost to describe Flea
-Flea agrees that Flea is lost
-Jessie reads the word lost and suggests this is because Gloria said it in the scum QT and not because 'lost' and 'confused about the game' mean the same thing so... Flea just used it since Gloria had used it as a descriptor
-Gloria brought up dyslexia - this is the main stage where i have no idea what relation it has to anything else

does this sound right?

[Hopkirk]

I share an emotional impulse to hop off Hopkirk but I don't think appeal to fear is a great reason on its own to falter on something.

Why did you hop on in the first place? Looking through your trajectory your post-flip behavior feels at odds with your reads beforehand. Especially the lack of follow up on the things you said you would want to follow up on - like Infinity's read on TGP that you said you absolutely wanted to look at post flip, but i don't think you've mentioned infinity. Then your view on the game in terms of reads has flipped at some point without a clear explination. What's your view of the gamestate right now?

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx iso - i don't get why there's never been a Gypyx wagon this game
I reread TGP's stuff and either they missed out a lot of their towncase or just 100% TR Gypyx for random setup spec stuff

[Hopkirk]

(Flea+Infinity+Gloria) was the townreads strong enough i had/have no plans to iso them.
Ydrasse is a strong townread on the reiso rather than a TR i was just sheeping

[Hopkirk]

Don't like the early game posting from Dunn. that's something to come back to

And the resistance was in fact to tgp

+slight townpoints as I don't think this was remotely true, and unself-aware is a townping for me

Spoiler:

I think we’re talking past each other so let’s work through this.

We have 4 possibilities:
There was at least 1 scum on dunn and dunn is scum: we both agree this is unlikely
There was at least 1 scum on dunn and dunn is town: I think this is the most likely scenario
There was no scum on dunn and dunn is scum: you think this is the most likely scenario, but I’m not convinced; it requires 4 players other than me to all be town, which is unlikely just by probability
There was no scum on dunn and dunn is town: also a possibility but unlikely by probability

Too much on probablility here

There was never really a case against me in the first place, it doesn't really matter whether it was town or scum that jumped on me (though I agree it's unlikely that they were all town)

Can you stop talking about anything other than you in this game or who’s pushing you etc. and actually talk about some other players and actually make reads?

I’m not extremely happy that is is probably the third time I’ve asked you this question and you continue to ignore it for some reason.

I will be keeping score if you also dodge this post as well. So besides tr Fea, sr Hopkirk and Pooky, what are your thoughts on the rest of the playerlist?

3rd time I’ve asked you this and next time you post in this thread I’m expecting an answer.

I'm not ignoring it, I gave you all I have

I have reads. I'm pushing one.

I can focus on things other than myself when you stop constantly making it about myself

My thoughts on the rest will come, but I don't think that's a priority right now

1668 @Flea, I’m definitely talking about Dunn. I don’t tr the fact that he continues to ignore my request to give reads and if he continues to dodge this, I will likely be voting him.

Pooky is a bad vote and Isis is probably my top tr. I also need to hear more from Hopkirk.

Vote me then, you're not going to be able to pressure me into giving reads

I’m trying to sort you and giving reads is one of the ways that help me to sort. Do you have literally no opinions at all on any but the four you’ve already given opinions on?

I don't have enough scumreads to have a full team of scum

People I'm lightly tring include Infinity, Ydrasse, team rocket queen, yourself

I'm pretty sure there's scum in the camp of people defaulting to elimming me (hopkirk, pooky)

Kinda like. Will PTMbear in mind when isoing PTMB

@Dunn : how are you feeling about Flea and Skitter30 this game? I'm interested in your reads on those slots as I'm not seeing it well.

that's unecessarily aggressive hopkirk and i'm not confident enough in my reads to be saying 'can you read my game' sorry

Hopkirk, I get it, I voted you to try and get the game moving more than anything. I'd definitely hear you out on anything at this point, most of us are pretty lost.

+1

@Hopkirk, I need a case on either. I am obviously less confident on Skitter than I was after TGP flip but I expected them to flip scum. It bothered more that she voted Isis.

I’m still not convinced Dunn is town either and then you have flipped town locking Gypyx, so yes, I need help obviously seeing it.

I don’t think it’s Pooky because of something he said that slightly town pinged me and I know you’re hard tr him anyway.

And why is Jessie in your PoE?

The flip town lock didn't really seem to be based on much, in my opinion

Hopkirk is doing a thing where he only has 2 reads and they're both scumreads, and he never engages with them, looks very scum motivated to me

Pooky has a lot of resistance based off of him essentially performing AtE

bad attack on me by throwing shade without trying to engage further on the 'lack of reads' he's attacking makes it feel more like shade than trying to develop a read -TP
but also didn't vote me so hm need to think more there

[Hopkirk]

my gut is telling me Pooky/Skitter30 and Dunn town for some reason.i'll keep going. pooky is going to be a painful iso

[Hopkirk]

town( Flea The Magician, Infinity 324, Gloria Cleary, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet)
idk if i bother reading Jessie or just sheep the many 100% townreads they got from other TRs.

[Hopkirk]

If Hectic was here he'd probably be voting Pooky for casually dropping those reads lists he was doing. I can see scum Pooky from the progression around that.

well now I have to kill you for calling Isis sweaty

VOTE: Dunnstral

we can kill your buddy tgp tommorrow

mb tgp is green and dunn is caught for the wrong reasons scum

his reaction right now is terrible

and he called isis sweaty

lets just send him packing

dunn deserves to die for calling isis sweaty, she smells like roses.

the fact that he is very likely also a red pm is just an extra bonus on top .

i can make a more detailed case but i havent gotten out of bed yet and im super hungry.

these just... don't feel like a good push on Dunn

I think everyone feels a bit lost

i feel very lost

I don't really get that sense from your posting before this point? What's got you lost? I'm worried you're just lost to blend in, because it doesn't feel like you've got 'too many townreads' like a lot of people are concerned about. If there's doubts I don't get them from what you're posting.

ydra why do you want to launch skitter?

Why don't you? I was looking through your mentions of Skitter30 and you've never meaningful mentioned Skitter30 outside of an early comment that you don't think scum-Skitter30 would do X - followed by a neutral read on Skitter30 for most of the game with no further attempts to push her. I really don't see any of your solving arguably the most important slot to solve here? How are you feeling on Skitter30 here.

[Hopkirk]

i don't get why there's never been a Gypyx wagon this game

Because the dead townie said that they are locktown

Which is like, I don't see how they could come to a solid read there, but I assume that's why other people aren't going there

the dead town said they were locktown after they died, i was a little concerned at how little pressure they got before the TGP as much as after
after the flip i avoided the gyp vote due to TGP, but i really don't get why TGP's read is a read. It feels like a bad case i'd do for a lighttownread (feels like me Zdenek read early in deathcurse tbh)

@Dunn : how are you feeling about Flea and Skitter30 this game? I'm interested in your reads on those slots as I'm not seeing it well.

Flea I was townreading, they've kind of fallen off as they've posted less. Skitter all I remember from them is that they are against Isis and also they're neutral or against wagons on me and pooky

can you take another look at Skitter30 and tell me how you're thinking afterwards?

[Hopkirk]

Skitter30 iso I'm going to have to leave until later. Did a search for Pooky/Gypyx and it verifies the concerns i was having over interactions there. I want to pay attention to how Isis, Dunn, and Pooky come up in there.
Dunn I want to reread a couple more times because idk about that read
Isis I liked but she feels to have shifted weirdly after the gamestate lagged and felt awkward on the return

[Hopkirk]

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it. Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

The "we haven't solved it" part isn't the way the AtE was presented, it was the part where he backloaded all his interest in solving for after everyone settled on a consensus he wasn't happy with.

It feels off.

I might not be able to fully communicate this read due to it having gutparts to it I guess and that's ok I guess. I really feels like the least wrong lim to me though

At what point do I ever say 'I'm annoyed the game isn't solved'. I was annoyed at nothing happening for three days after one of the worst mafia games I've ever played just finished (hint, it was literally impossible to get anyone to do anything prior to like an hour before deadline and we lost hard despite it being an easy win if the town had literally bothered to exist instead of stall the entire day phase). that game triggered me hard and any vibes that this is getting like that physically hurt. I spent the whole game trying to vote off two/three players and, despite being setup-confirmed then later cop-confirmed, still couldn't get anyone to actually do anything meaningful.

VOTE: hopkirk w/e I’m just gonna sheep isis

why is Isis a strong enough TR for you to sheep?

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk. The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him,

identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone

and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

wait what the fuck
how has nobody commented that this is an objectively ridiculous misrep? i made it pretty clear i had Gloria/Flea/Infinity locktown to the extent i wasn't rereading them and Ydrasse as locktown too post reread.

you're seriously saying someone who says 'i don't have any scumreads, i townread everyone' is less likely to change than someone who builds a locktown block then votes outside it? 'cause that's how i play ever game and I very clearly have a locktown block because i said who's in it several times yesterday

[Hopkirk]

I'll do Skitter30 or Gypyx.

Gypyx not posting anything for like... a week is exactly what scum-Gypyx does because why would he rock the boat if he's getting zero pressure for lurking? Pooky might be right that this makes it more likely we're looking at TvT Hop/Skitter30 but I don't really have the time to iso Skitter30 again pre-deadline.

[Hopkirk]

Ok so i'm here, sorry for the extreme lack of content, I just can't manage to find the time to put in this game, sorry everyone

Nah it's fine lol, hi pooky

I'm tired, it's 3 a.m

I'm also kind curious about what is weird about the game for Ydrasse, like, i've skimmed and everything seems normal to me

VOTE: Hectic

Oh god i promised myself to look at this game and now it's midnight

Please pressure me to post tommorow if i still manage to procrastinate

ok yes EoD panick time

Worst part is i'm busy as fuck today, i'll try to make some shotgun reads to start

I've kinda avoided this game tbf :/

Like, first i was very occuupied by real life, then the more time passed, the harder it was for to catchup and it's just a neverending cycle, really sorry that i'm just a blank slot in this game

how has he had 0 pressure for posting exclusively prodges since the last vote

[Hopkirk]

TGP's readslist makes no sense and what I remember of their posting doesn't make much sense, and on balance I lean towards it being a scummy thing I don't understand instead of a townie thing I don't understand. Apparently Dunnstral and skitter were my comrades in terms of voting their so when I don't have my fingers wrapped around it composition might be something to think about.
Jessie mostly hasn't towntold yet and has touched on a lot of topics where I'd expect her to have towntold. I think Infinity is the one with the sig where where posting long enough without towntelling is a scumtell. I'd sooner vote there than revote TGP at this point I think.
Dunnstral is mildly scummy but I've reached a point where I kind of treat him unfairly [well] in my games if he's not a 13/10 on lurking and scummy potshotting because he sometimes turns on midgame and has really good reads, and lots of times when you elim him for seeming scummy he's actually town, he just has that playstyle. I'm not gonna expect others to hold to that though.
Gypyx seems scummy for the way he was scrabbling with setup spec stuff it's a bit cognitive load scummy to count through the wifom of claiming hidden information so slowly. I don't have a lot from him yet though.

I'm starting to wonder if I approach games in a way that sets up perverse incentives on being active and sharing yourself oof.

Hopefully by the time phases reach their end point, at least, I don't

I finished catching up and I agree with TGP's defense of Gypyx not making enough sense, in a scummy way. I like Jessie's version a lot better.

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk. The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

I can definitely see Gypyx/Isis pairing here actually

the read progression from Isis goes from scummy for reasons > town because arbitrarily determined model of 'he wouldn't do this'.

the thought process of 'he wouldn't do what he did again when he was scum before' is ... really really bad because Isis definitely has an understanding in general that some people can find scum hard to play - especially when they haven't played scum much (which Gyp hasn't because Isis is referencing a recent game as their only scumgame I think).

the lack of pressure from Isis on the slot, or even caring it exists or really considering when she does POE is really off

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Gypyx

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx is online at the moment.
Gypyx essentially wasn't voting last time at deadline either (Gloria vanity wagon from RVS while there were two competing wagons they didn't weigh in on).

I'm not happy letting someone get through 14 days without posting or even voting when

they're new enough to playing scum that that's a very credible model of how scum them would approach a game where nobody cares about them not talking and when talking could draw that attention

[Hopkirk]

Isis made a lot of sense early game until I reread and realized I really liked the tone but there was essentially no content in the first half of her iso. Still liked that, until terrible misreps from yesterday.

[Hopkirk]

'essentially no' is quite an overstatement, but less than I thought is what I mean there.

[Hopkirk]

What do you mean by 'conviction' Infinity? more tangibly

[Hopkirk]

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk.

The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time

. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it.

Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads

I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

this strikes me as such a weird dissonance in Isis' perspective

[Hopkirk]

Ok, I'm caught up.

->it's not my birthday for another 3 hours
->Flea townspewed like 9 more times and it's an aggravating aggregation of gravy at this point
->I don't wanna do Gypyx. Gypyx rolled scum in what I think is his first scumgame in mystyry box of silver: special isis idition, and in that game he was very lurky noncommital early on. Then it started to be a bad thing. Then he started playing more proactive and pushed someone after getting coached and everyone started townreading him and he won.
Being lurky and noncommital as scum matches as a personality/predisposition thing, but failing to do that-thing-that-worked-out-last-time here is pretty weird here. It could be a case of, in the words of the beloved Blake Belladonna, "Bitmap is scum this game. He is identifying the things he needs to do. Then he is not doing them." But the fact that that quote so dear to my heart is actually a case of town scumcasing town is the reason it's more of a second likeliest explanation.

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk.

The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time

. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

infinity/isis played that game too actually they should know the answer to this.

Hopkirk feels pretty different from Matrix Decipher to me. In Matrix Decipher it felt like Hopkirk was operating with the same barometer for how the game was going as I was and in this game there seems like there's mismatched assessment of how dire things are. Even if we miselim today and even if ontop of that everyone's reads are bad and are stuck in bad ruts, the game is likely to have some kind of twist something like Menagerie did that will kick lots of life and reassess into it.

Other slots have a vibe that feels similar to mine of like "lol we have no reads

I should probably be ashamed but I'm voting the mod tbh" whereas Hopkirk has this tone of "we haven't solved the game already we are already doomed unless we swiftly foil the gunpowder treason of 1605" that's foreign to the game but fits particularly well with the 11v2 idea Infinity mentioned.

this strikes me as such a weird dissonance in Isis' perspective

[Hopkirk]

the thought process of 'he wouldn't do what he did again when he was scum before' is ... really really bad because Isis definitely has an understanding in general that some people can find scum hard to play - especially when they haven't played scum much (which Gyp hasn't because Isis is referencing a recent game as their only scumgame I think).

i think isis was saying 'why wouldn't gypyx do what worked in the mystery box game instead of what didn't work' if he were scum

which still idk about the validity of that but i don't think she was saying he wouldn't lurk because he lurked previously

What I got out of it

- Gypyx as scum was lurking early game (check)
- This changed later on when it started to not work and they was getting coached

there's an assumpion here that 1.) they could do the same without coaching and 2.) that scum Gypyx doesn't start the same way he's started as scum in previous games because it didn't work well for him

there's a weird assumption that Gypyx can independently play a very good scumgame here, that'd be better for him than the lurking strat when nobody's called him out (votewise) for lurking and its arguably a very intimidating game based on early townblocks. Unless we assume Gypyx is absolutely flawless, 2 definitely doesn't hold up and I'd say acting the same is more indicative of scum struggling in the same way as before rather than assuming he wouldn't do X because he's seen there's a better strat... while missing the link between knowing Z is better than X and actually performing Z.

there's obviously the associated assumption that town Gypyx would lurk like this and have no reads, do you have any backup for that Isis?

[Hopkirk]

Scum!gypyx keeping doing it would be because it kept working. He got no pressure until like yesterday.

there's a decent chance of a scumflip and a policy vote all in one

[Hopkirk]

it reminds me of another player who spent 21 days avoiding the thread (with the mod not prodding them for 6 day absences contributing to this) as scum. It's definitely something I've seen scum do. Obviously town too, but scum!gypyx has a positive incentive to do it while town!gypyx would just be choosing to be anti-town.

[Hopkirk]

Scum!gypyx keeping doing it would be because it kept working. He got no pressure until like yesterday.

you think scum!gypyx would think, 'implying i am about to do something and then not doing it will continue to ward off votes indefinitely'?

it's worked so far. scum!gypyx would imply that we've not been pushing the best wagons over the game

[Hopkirk]

it reminds me of another player who spent 21 days avoiding the thread (with the mod not prodding them for 6 day absences contributing to this) as scum. It's definitely something I've seen scum do. Obviously town too, but scum!gypyx has a positive incentive to do it while town!gypyx would just be choosing to be anti-town.

do you have a link you can show me? i have seen a lot of mafia avoid the thread forever, and i have seen a good number of mafia avoid the thread forever and promise future content, but i have not seen any mafia repeatedly return to the thread and say things like 'okay here i am catchup time' and not catchup and then days later 'sorry for absence again here are some shotgun reads' and just not do that either. like it feels to me that it's intentionally drawing attention to both the absence and the not doing the thing they say they are about to do before disappearing. it doesn't seem like town behaviour to me either,

it's worked so far. scum!gypyx would imply that we've not been pushing the best wagons over the game

scum!gypyx would assumedly have partners? why would scum!gypyx imply that none of wagons were on one of them?

viewtopic.php?p=9968036&user_select%5B% ... 0#p9968036

It took them 13 days and 5 promises of 'I'm catching up now/tomorrow' followed by later repetitions of this.

This post specifically is explaining their mindset (as scum) as to why they didn't catch up until then - TLDR = pressure to catch up and look really towny (makes sense in this context where a lot of people are heavily TR tbh): viewtopic.php?p=9968036#p9968036

so yeah, mafia avoiding the thread while repeatedly saying 'i'm gonna catchup now/soon'

scum Gypyx would make the people who've been pushed (the deceased TGP, Skitter30/dunn/myself) look better as scum being happy to lurk there would mean they're finer with the direction the game is in and don't have partners they'd be trying to save.

[Hopkirk]

we

and also i guess as a side question to all of this, how much of your current push on gypyx is survivalism and how much is possible connection you see between isis and gypyx? like why now instead of earlier for you, when this has been true of gypyx for a long time, other than there are votes on you and there are also votes on gypyx and the deadline looms

you're missing out a little bit of policy.

a little survivalism because there's not

really

enough time for much to change right now so I don't have time to go through Pooky/Isis/Skitter30 and try to develop those reads at this point.

mostly because they're in my POE, there's other votes on them, and some stuff pinged me more on a quick reread

like Skitter30 is slightly higher in my scumlist right now, but I really need to review that scumlist and Gypyx has never left my POE and I'm generally happy voting anyone in my POE (pretty sure i say multiple times in death curse this is how i approach things)

eseentially its a wagon that's doable on someone in my POE, with some more scummy pings that've cropped up more recently, so i'm good with this

[Hopkirk]

Who else would you sheep Jessie onto

[Hopkirk]

That's not helpful because it's clearly out of date. Can you update that since you just said you would sheep Jessie onto hopkirk but that days you wouldn't.

[Hopkirk]

Would you sheep a vote from Jessie onto Isis or Skitter30, ignoring Jessie's current reads and imaging a last minute 'hey y'all I cracked it' from Jessie

[Hopkirk]

Oh wait you didn't vote me, I though you sheepwd a Jessie vote on me, so my questions make less sense

[Hopkirk]

Skitter30 wouldn't really be out of the blue

what's your read on Isis? the reads list/your last post could be interpreted either way, or probably neutral

[Hopkirk]

@Dunn - what's your read on Isis? I don't see one or any interactions in your iso.

[Hopkirk]

I don't particularly want to vote Skitter30 tbh

[Hopkirk]

when you say 'evil tricks'?

[Hopkirk]

I feel like whoever was saying stuff about lover pairs is probably right tbh.

[Hopkirk]

something like this would make sense

2 scum, double d1, nightkill, post n1 mafia pairs people as lovers
71% (no scum die) - scum kills then are paired as lovers for 53% EV as its the same EV-wise as a 4-1 game. (Game gets ridiculously scumsided if they can pair with other people, like 70-75% scum win in theory pre practical adjustment)
28% (one scum dies) - scum kills then 5 pairs of lovers one of which is town/scum for 53% EV as above.
1% (d1 town win) - no longer possible

Hectic played a game with a similar mechanic a while back and was disappointed not to survive until the stage in the game where the mechanic came into effect, it fits the flavour, and seems balanced.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like whoever was saying stuff about lover pairs is probably right tbh.

Based on what?

gut feeling on Hectic game setups + a little flavour + briefly wondering if this could be a 2 scum game

[Hopkirk]

[Hopkirk]

I'm not convinced it's too late

[Hopkirk]

I'd prefer Gypyx, but Pooky is in my POE, so if there was a bigger wagon on him than Gypyx then yes.

[Hopkirk]

So right now we’re looking at
Hopkirk – Isis, Skitter30, Infinity, Dunn, assuming Gypyx
Gypyz – Gloria, Ydrasse, Hopkirk, Pooky, Jessie
Elsewhere- Morning Tweet, Flea

One of those wagons is a whole lot townier than the other
I’m leaning towards Dunn-scum in the Dunn/Pooky (which feels like a TvS) interactions.
Dunn/Gypyx/(Isis or Skitter or deepwolf) feels like a decent call.

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx

gypyx returning to put hopkirk at the bottom of his readslist and not vote him in this situation seems ... potentially partner indicative

it really isn't? like objectively isn't.
Gypyx is clearly planning to vote me here

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx was towncased purely for setup spec stuff... it wasn't a good towncase
who are you planning to vote Flea?

[Hopkirk]

Gypyx

gypyx returning to put hopkirk at the bottom of his readslist and not vote him in this situation seems ... potentially partner indicative

it really isn't? like objectively isn't.
Gypyx is clearly planning to vote me here

but he didn't? and there were what six hours until deadline when he posted

i don't even get where you're coming from here. either he's going to vote me when he comes back online, or he forgot to vote
i don't understand why you see someone not voting the other competing deadline wagon (that i switched to) and decide partners.

[Hopkirk]

i don't even get where you're coming from here. either he's going to vote me when he comes back online, or he forgot to vote
i don't understand why you see someone not voting the other competing deadline wagon (that i switched to) and decide partners.

because not voting for you in that situation does not make much sense to me outside of that possibility

seriously this is just dumb
not bad indicative... just dumb

[Hopkirk]

My wagon now consists exclusively of people in my POE.

@Flea - why can't scum also be lurky? I don't get the LHF/Lurky > Town judgement that you're making there.

[Hopkirk]

@Kanna - you're still using the old deadline in your VCs btw.

[Hopkirk]

except i didn't vote you because that was done

[Hopkirk]

what even is this shit

[Hopkirk]

you didnt vote me because nobody listened to you and voted me except flea

if the oppurtunity was there youd be stabbing me dead dead.

why the fuck would i ever try and switch wagons from a L2 to you when i'm the other wagon as scum

[Hopkirk]

pooky doesn't deserve to survive tomorrow

[Hopkirk]

fuck off, i never tried to murder you and you know it. I outright said i wouldn't wagon you unless there was a bigger wagon on you... which would have required 4 people to switch

[Hopkirk]

i guess i just fucking lurk out every day 1 in future because apparently that's something everyone loves more than actually played the game

[Hopkirk]

Because i'm so fucking pissed with him that i've written comments to the effect of 'time to quit the site' and deleted them about five times.

[Hopkirk]

POE is (Pooky/Isis/Skitter30/Gyp/Dunn)

[Hopkirk]

i guess i just fucking lurk out every day 1 in future because apparently that's something everyone loves more than actually played the game

i have the 2nd most posts in the game and never stopped playing and you tried to push-kill me 4 hours before a plurality deadline when you knew i was asleep.

i'm so clearly talking about Gyp here

[Hopkirk]

can you stop trolling me

[Hopkirk]

i'm already annoyed enough

[Hopkirk]

all the scum were on my wagon there which makes Gyp look pretty bad.
Pooky probably

is

town so (Dunn+Gyp+Skitter30/Isis would make sense).

[Hopkirk]

So right now we’re looking at
Hopkirk – Isis, Skitter30, Infinity, Dunn, assuming Gypyx
Gypyz – Gloria, Ydrasse, Hopkirk, Pooky, Jessie
Elsewhere- Morning Tweet, Flea

One of those wagons is a whole lot townier than the other

I’m leaning towards Dunn-scum in the Dunn/Pooky

(which feels like a TvS) interactions.
Dunn/Gypyx/(Isis or Skitter or deepwolf) feels like a decent call.

I'd prefer Gypyx, but Pooky is in my POE

, so if there was a bigger wagon on him than Gypyx then yes.

honestly like wow

[Hopkirk]

im not trolling u

i went to bed last night with "ok we r policy elimming gyp for being a lurker and not really playing" and woke up this morning to you pushing me to die over gyp.

i don't understand how you get this from my posts since i'm saying the exact opposite very clearly

i don't see how you reach this conclusion in any legitimate manner so either you're scum or you're trolling me
i'm currently leaning towards the second which really pisses me off here

[Hopkirk]

no shit

[Hopkirk]

MT i've had as town for a while but never really reviewed and their vote on me doesn't mesh with their previous mentions of their understanding of my meta.

'Hopkirk pulls off high effort a lot easier as town' > Hopkirk rereads the entire game to make a lot of posts/revise reads doesn't mesh.

[Hopkirk]

I'm sure hoppy is green but deadline was approaching

and you preferred to keep the person who hasn't even posted in the game. good decision.

i was literally ok with going to sleep and policy killing a lurker slot that wasnt playing the game and then you tried to push kill me in my sleep. pls stop pretending u have a problem with lurkers.

I get why you’re annoyed but that would be suicidal for scum!Hopkirk don’t you think? I don’t see scum taking that kind of risk when their one of the lead wagons.

scum-hop never even coniders antagonising you there unless you're a scum partner and he wants to scum theater over it because Pooky/Gyp/Hop is the scumteam. This should be ridiculously obvious.

[Hopkirk]

can you take a look at MT and another look at Dunn tomorrow Gloria?

[Hopkirk]

2444 -my last post b4 falling asleep
2447 - you post a gif of me falling asleep
2448- flea writes a long ass post voting me
2450 - dunn says its too late to vote pooky
2451 - hopkirk says nah its not too late to kill pooky
2452 - dunn says you'd vote for pooky?
2453 - hopkirk says id prefer gyp but if pooky's wagon is bigger then sure!!!


im not trolling you and im not scum

thats just a shitty thing to do to someone right after they fall asleep

if its me vs one other person i'd prefer to vote the other person
this is not 'Hopkirk pushing you'

[Hopkirk]

MT/Dunn makes sense on a quick skim of MT but i don't have time to fully do that

[Hopkirk]

and you preferred to keep the person who hasn't even posted in the game. good decision.

yeah flea pretending to push me for preferring a majority decision and hammering anyway and pretending to defend you when fae could have voted gypyx and then gypyx would have been eliminated instead due to plurality rules is !!!

I hard townread Flea despite this.

[Hopkirk]

flea voted me with a long wallpost

dunn says its too late (you know dunn wants to push me)

youre telling dunn, no wait its not too late its possible.

you are literally trying to open a door that is closed.

Seeing if he'll try and push you or wait until stuff happens is good for reads. Dunn responded with a double down vote on me after essentially saying 'will you switch' and me saying no.
This Increased my Dunn scumread.
Increases Gyp scumpartner points with Dunn.

At no point was i going to vote you > Gypyx.

[Hopkirk]

(Dunn/MT/Gyp/Skitter30/maybe Isis) POE

[Hopkirk]

What is this "emotional control" you speak of?

i have none of this

[Hopkirk]

i could see something like (Dunn/Gyp/MT) if i was being forced to call it now

[Hopkirk]

VC on this page.

(Dunn/Skitter30/Gypyx/Jessie) is the people I don't have good vibes on.
It's also to some extent concerning overlapping with people not approaching the game in a certain way.

TGP isn't really a

townread

but I initially got bad vibes from, there's a couple of things that seem weird from scum, and my POE hates them, so they get townpoints for that.

This is a really good list, except i townread jessie

Gloria and Jessie im strongest on. Infinity is close to them. and below them, hopkirk + Pooky + Isis + Flea i've all gotten townleans on.

leaving ydrasse, golden, skitts, dunn, and gypx. Ydrasse and Golden i have weak reasoning for. The other three i just don't have an opinion on. I think Gypx's behaviour is sort of weird for scum but ive seen scum do it too. Skitts (along with Isis) in their sort of 1v1 i just have been glossing over after initially disagreeing with what i saw. I'm not confident in my ability to read skitts without associative information. Dunn is playing like he did in forest fire and silent star 1.. which unfortunately i took to be as a scumtell in Forest fire and miselimed him (or tried to anyway). i think I know what to watch out for to learn his alignment

VOTE: Hopkirk

By my count, Gypyx is 2 ahead of Hop. I get the feeling something REALLY strange is happening so allow me to make it interesting

Seriously, wtf happened today? i could only skim but still, it's weird that momentum never gathered anywhere except Gypyx

It's really odd

Normally i'd vote Gypyx as a sort of policy and be done with it, but i get the sense he actually probably doesn't flip scum

Hop I think technically has higher chances of flipping scum but i'm more interested in why Gypyx was the only one who got real votes today.

this is such a weird reaction to a wagon that contains Jessie, Gloria, and Infinity (MT's top three townreads) and 2 other townreads vs a previous scumread. I really don't get how you ever vote me>Gypyx here over the wagon which contains most of your POE

There were definitely other meaningful wagons today MT, despite a several day lull. Skitter30/me stayed low key for a while which makes me feel iffier on a Skitter30 SR

[Hopkirk]

I don't get how MT sees a wagon with Skitter30/Dunn/Gyp on it after saying she doesn't like those three (plus a weak townread, Isis) and says to herself 'yes, i'd prefer to join that wagon than the one all of my townreads are pushing'. Like how can you claim to be a POE player then go for a wagon

every single one of your scumreads wants

[Hopkirk]

MT doesn't have great interactions over the TGP vote (issues with Dunn then goes for TGP when it gets hard) or Gyp. Gyp has TRs on both so is setting up to vote outside there in future- probably angling for a Skitter30 push post green-flip from me since she's a common occurrence in all three of their reads lists and i conflicted with her for a while (but none of them pushed her much when i was pushing her - only Dunn). Dunn doesn't mention MT that I can see and acts to oppose the Gyp vote.

[Hopkirk]

Isis I like most of her play this game, its just a weird vote at the end, but I'm not convinced she even makes that vote as scum tbh

[Hopkirk]

Try and get as many townreads as possible, accept a deepwolf getting in there, then work through the POE? I like the sound of that.

Yes! That's my playstyle because i am terrible at finding scum. the only issues that arise are A.) sometimes i get scum in the PoE, but miss inside of the PoE and B.) i am bad at reevaluating already cemented townreads so finding any deepwolves is pain

Or maybe it's because i used to give out townreads way too easily. i tell myself i don't do that anymore, but then wonder what went wrong when I run out of people I'm

not

townreading

MT agreed they share my playstyle and... i don't see myself ever considering that vote in her shoes.

[Hopkirk]

'the game stalled' as a thought really doesn't logically lead 'the person who got wagoned in part for inactivity is town'.
Either mafia are intentionally stalling (and not being here becomes a major sus) or mafia are happy with the gamestate (Skitter30/Hop being the two biggest wagons for a while) are the two most obvious ways to explain that gamestate. Not voting Gyp there kind of resembles her stance around Dunn/TGP in a weird way.

[Hopkirk]

Until now MT has been in the same place in my readlists I had most of the scum in Death Curse (3/5 of them, light null townread that I can't explain in a way that makes me happy with it.

[Hopkirk]

three/seven people who voted me are blaming their votes on insanity

[Hopkirk]

I don't get TGP's defense of gypyx in 725, but I kind of liked TGP in it. Will be interesting to see why he's such a big wagon right now.

tgp looks like a gypyx partner

I didn't like any of Skitter30's posting on this page and am especially curious on this. I don't get pushing this association.

this is my interpretation of the TGP-gypyx interacton. I also agree that the TGP/Gypx partner idea doesn't make sense.

VC on this page.

(Dunn/Skitter30/Gypyx/Jessie) is the people I don't have good vibes on.
It's also to some extent concerning overlapping with people not approaching the game in a certain way.

TGP isn't really a

townread

but I initially got bad vibes from, there's a couple of things that seem weird from scum, and my POE hates them, so they get townpoints for that.

This is a really good list, except i townread jessie

Gloria and Jessie im strongest on. Infinity is close to them. and below them, hopkirk + Pooky + Isis + Flea i've all gotten townleans on.

leaving ydrasse, golden, skitts, dunn, and gypx. Ydrasse and Golden i have weak reasoning for. The other three i just don't have an opinion on. I think Gypx's behaviour is sort of weird for scum but ive seen scum do it too. Skitts (along with Isis) in their sort of 1v1 i just have been glossing over after initially disagreeing with what i saw. I'm not confident in my ability to read skitts without associative information. Dunn is playing like he did in forest fire and silent star 1.. which unfortunately i took to be as a scumtell in Forest fire and miselimed him (or tried to anyway). i think I know what to watch out for to learn his alignment

VC on this page.

if you're arguing that Dunn is a partner of Golden then why are you flipping Dunn first? i'm pretty sure that's what he's getting at and that's largely what is losing me here

I am just completely lost at how no one interpreted it that way which leads me to believe im missing something but i can't delve rn

it'd be cute if tweet/gloria could vote

(◕ω◕) ♡

VOTE: TGP

if you're arguing that Dunn is a partner of Golden then why are you flipping Dunn first? i'm pretty sure that's what he's getting at and that's largely what is losing me here

I am just completely lost at how no one interpreted it that way which leads me to believe im missing something but i can't delve rn

You don’t think it logical to prefer to flip the one you find scummier first, why?

that was more referring to Pooky and whoever else is arguing that Golden and Dunn are together, which i thought you were

As for you specifically, your point against Dunn seems to be his read progression on Pooky. you keep referencing 1461 but i'm totally missing where he townreads Pooky there

I think Dunn might still be scum outside of this but i fail to see what you're seeing (aside from calling Isis sweaty, which hurts my feelings vicariously). But like so many people are seeing it when im not so im worried im just not seeing right

[Hopkirk]

your progression on Dunn/TGP is almost (not quite but almost) as weird. You seem to be townreading TGP and scumreading Dunn up to the point you vote TGP

[Hopkirk]

it'd be cute if tweet/gloria could vote

(◕ω◕) ♡

VOTE: TGP

nvm this was after deadline
but not being on Dunn was weird given that was the competing wagon and they had a clear stated preference for voting Dunn, were on a vanity wagon, and low key argued against a Dunn vote > a TGP vote in one of the posts i quoted above

[Hopkirk]

MT's vote doesn't feel like someone who's been absent from the thread for several days, I assume has read up, and feels they're in danger of a nightkill that'll silence their chance to update people on their reads/POE.
Like if you haven't posted for a while, presumably have thoughts/an updated POE, do you just put down the vote then go offline until after deadline? Either MT didn't fully catch up (scum QT helped?), didn't have time to do it (the town MT scenario) or put down a vote without their reads changing which hardcore doesn't gel with their previous reads.

I can see either opportunistic scum, or scum who forgot they were supposed to have a TR on me, or scum trying to save a partner.

[Hopkirk]

^ puts vote down then doesn't return until after deadline that is.

[Hopkirk]

i should do other stuff now, so have fun and listen to Gloria.

[Hopkirk]

MT is probably my top pick for scum after this tbh.

[Hopkirk]

I fake-soft claimed tracker before i realized this was all vanilla.
It definitely wasn't going to be all vanilla, but if it was something like 'the first two eliminated get to recruit scum and become aligned with scum' that'd be a fun setup tbh.

[Hopkirk]

when i spoke with hectic about the setup my thought was that 1 week deadline for the first phase (both votes) would have been pretty good
the mafia seemed frustrated by the end, and for the town... honestly the first 2 weeks is the vast majority of the game and the amount of time made it kind of an oppressive setup and kind of made the later stage a bit less of an automatic process

i was frustrated this game because i'd just come out of one of my least favourite mafia games i've played in terms of being incredibly frustrating throughout. i got a little triggered by the kind of ... underlying oppressive feel of this game where i felt like i was getting everything right, doing everything right and still couldn't advance the game (right after a game where i had an even more frustrating case of that). i may have gone a little bit too intense, so apologies if anyone was upset by that

that was an amazing town. if pooky hadn't changed him vote we would have actually won a 6 town vs 6 mafia gamestate which is... insanely good cohesion

(Dunn/MT/Gyp/Skitter30/maybe Isis) POE

i am very happy with pushing Skitter30/Dunn/Gyp all day followed by this POE... i think i've got my POE based strategy in a place i'm happy with now. see y'all in team mafia

[Hopkirk]

Yep sorry hopkirk <3
I felt super bad for pushing you, and i think theres like multiple pages on the scum pt with all of us saying the same thing

You were spot on and super townie, and in a normal game you never get limmed there

yeah... getting voted there just sort of made me lose all faith in my ability as a player if its possible for me to get voted at that point after that day... until hectic asked me who i thought the 6 scum were.

[Hopkirk]

so this really was just a massive hectic-troll on hopkirk :3

it wouldn't be the thirtieth time

[Hopkirk]

the disappointment faded when i realized the setup was an... unusual one