Mini 627 - Riverworld Smalltown - Over!!!

[Cyberbob]

I'll take Diego.

[Cyberbob]

Waiting on Pug... who looks as though he's going to be stuck with the Doctor.

[Cyberbob]

My brain hurts slightly.

[Cyberbob]

Could take the inventor, the one shot cop might be critical. Doc protects hardly ever matter, but I guess with all the beefy power roles the threat of a Doc is most useful.

The Doctor would make a good team with the Role Absorber, too... which reminds me:

What happens if the Role Absorber is targeted by the Inventor?

[Cyberbob]

... New Deras!

OMGUS

Vote: Claus

[Cyberbob]

The meta's changing for the better imho.

Agreed. I despise random voting periods, especially when they're allowed to drag on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and you just don't know when it's ever going to end.

A nice quick bandwagon gets the discussion juices flowing with no time wasted in the endless drudgery of randomlollery.

[Cyberbob]

That PR is going to be really annoying, I can tell right off the bat >_>

As for your "scummy" comment above, I thought it was fairly obvious that I wasn't advocating quicklynches - merely quick

wagons

that get the discussion ball rolling.

Oh well.

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP: As far as this wagon goes... the speed with which it grew does concern me a little, but apart from that I don't see anything in it.

[Cyberbob]

Where discussion?

Well, I would say we're starting it.

[Cyberbob]

I read the votes on Winter's wagon (nice bit of alliteration there ) as being in keeping with the random stage - more banter than an actual attempt at a quicklynch.

As for role direction... yeah, I'm not too keen on it. Letting the scum know what's coming erases much of an ability's function (especially in the case of mine and Twomz's). With roles dropping every night and day we should be extracting as much benefit from them as we can.

[Cyberbob]

BTW, the no lynch vote isn't the reason I voted for Winter. It doesn't really bother me that much.

Why did you, then? If there's a reason beyond the apparent (humour), please let us know.

[Cyberbob]

What humor?

The "reasoning" you gave for the vote appeared to be humourous.

But seriously, why does my first vote of the game have to be for a reason?

It doesn't - I was only interested in whether it

was

.

[Cyberbob]

His backpedal on irrationally opposing No Lynches feels wonky.

No, I can vouch for his meta claim. We both came from the same site (also Claus ^_^) - the issue of Day 1 No Lynches does crop up fairly often and he is usually the one to explain why they're a bad idea.

[Cyberbob]

The MS playerbase is

considerably

more learned in the ways of mafia than that of our originating site, is what I believe he's saying.

[Cyberbob]

It's a leftover from the random phase.

Unvote

[Cyberbob]

Uh, I would've removed it without Alabaska's input. I'd forgotten it was there; the votecount reminded me of it and I figured it was outdated.

[Cyberbob]

I'm hovering between Twomz and Alabaska. I await their upcoming posts with great anticipation.

FoS: Twomz and Alabaska J

[Cyberbob]

I saw that post, but it didn't do anything for me either way.

[Cyberbob]

Why you thought shaft.ed's vote was scummy enough to deserve yours, for one thing.

Apart from that, nothing in particular. I suppose I would've been better served with an IGMEOY than an FoS, come to think of it.

[Cyberbob]

I think popcorn dice is the ideal solution to this,

but I think a full claim of all members of the town is certainly in the towns best interest however it occurs.

Waaaaiit. Do you mean claiming before or after the fact?

[Cyberbob]

Oh, that's alright then. I wasn't sure whether you were advocating claiming our actions today or tomorrow - if it had been today that would have been an entirely different kettle of fish.

[Cyberbob]

Whatever we decide upon (for the record I think a randomised order would be best), let's get it over with quickly so we can set about getting back to scumhunting.

[Cyberbob]

I've been attempting to get some reads on people, but apart from a minor skirmish with shaft.ed and the business with Twomz and Alabaska I'm just not seeing anything.

I like Nabakov's move on Megatron, though I actually find this part of his post:

I'm a dead man walking, I'd like my (quite likely) one night action to be of some use.

To be a touch scummier than that which Nabakov highlighted. Why the need for the histrionics?

Vote: Megatron

[Cyberbob]

Was there supposed to be anything else in that post, or were you essentially QFTing?

[Cyberbob]

Mod: My you're missing two letters from the end of my name.

I'm about two minutes from heading off to school. I'll have something to contribute when I get home.

[Cyberbob]

hermit waffling

I don't know if I'd call it "waffling", precisely. "Equivocating" has a much nicer ring to it.

FOS: TheHermit

[Cyberbob]

So Megatron isn't contributing enough? So the wagon is on him because he is actively lurking? I sthis it? I wanna know if I've got it now…

From what I've seen, that is indeed what the majority of his votes are for. Mine is mostly for his minor tantrum over having a role that's likely only to get one shot at using its role (his opinion, not mine).

[Cyberbob]

Claim Please?

What good, pray tell, would a claim do in this game?

[Cyberbob]

That is indeed a good spot. I don't think it's worthy of a vote at this time, but it may prove useful further on down the track.

[Cyberbob]

I have a question for Claus, but I'll wait until his next post so as to make it easier to answer for him.

If Winter hasn't been posting in his other games, I think this makes the "active lurking" tell a lot less viable. Lurking isn't a tremendously good tell to start with, adding in that he seems to be away from the site entirely and... well, it becomes much too easy to chalk it up to "real life getting in the way".

This is setting off my scumdar like crazy. I need to figure out why fast or else I will go insane.

I'd like to know why, too. When it comes to lurking as a scumtell I believe in an innocent-until-proven-guilty approach. If he isn't posting, prod/replace him. If he picks up a prod but continues to avoid posting (or something to that effect - another example would be to continually promise analyses without delivering),

then

can he be said to truly be lurking.

At such an early stage of the game I don't think it's really something that can be looked at in any great detail. It obviously won't help him later in the game, depending on a couple of factors (the extent of the absence being one), but at this point I don't think lurking is something that should be taken too seriously - certainly not to the extent that it should be setting off your scumdar "like crazy".

[Cyberbob]

Oh, my question for Claus:

Why is Pug on your list? A lack of contribution?



Now that I think about it, actually, Pug hasn't posted since Monday.

Mod: request prod for Pug89

[Cyberbob]

Post Restriction

...

Are you saying you only used the mFoS to make it clear you were addressing him?

Why does that surprise you? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Cyberbob]

mfos: The Hermit

New Deras

erm…

I don't understand what he's getting at either.

It's an injoke from the forum we three originate from. It sort of means the player in question is getting ahead of themselves in their enthusiasm. I do wish he wouldn't use it where nobody will really understand him, though.

I'd like to throw my hat in with the Alabaska crowd... though I can't shake the vague feeling that it has a higher chance of being harmful to the town than helping. It would definitely be preferable to a No Lynch though, I suppose.

[Cyberbob]

I'll do a reread on iamausername because I'm pretty sure you're asking us to vote for him, but I don't know what I'll find. I'll keep you posted.

Not a huge amount, I'll bet, because he's only posted twice.

[Cyberbob]

We still have plenty of time before deadline for voting. Take it easy.

[Cyberbob]

You, uh, are already voting for Megatron's replacement. >_>

[Cyberbob]

Alabaska, you've gone off your rocker. What is all this polling hoopla about? I can't for the life of me fathom it. As for Megatron, did a reread and came up with little more than that which I originally voted him for. I don't get why you're only starting to attack him now, to be honest. It isn't like he's done much of anything since.

[Cyberbob]

Did you include me in that group of 6? If not, count me in.

[Cyberbob]

Hmm, my vote from Megatron must have carried over to iamausername.

*rereads iamausername*

Meh. Nothing too flashy but on the other hand nothing particularly scummy. I'd like to see more out of him but his activity level isn't worthy of a vote (it also being the only thing I can see as even vaguely scummy).

Still, I'm willing to give Alabaska a chance to explain his recent shenanigans. My vote stays for now, but his reasons had better be pretty damn good.

[Cyberbob]

I haven't been able to follow the last page or two... but I'll have a shot at picking something out.

*does so*

I don't like M4yhem's post 415, particularly this comment:

Pretty much anything I might say has been said before, so there are alway going to be people who agree with me (and people who disagree with me). I don't see why that means I'm 'trying to please them'. That seems like a baseless accusation.

Acknowledging this kind of thing in my experience is more often than not a scum move to try and employ WIFOM in order to muddy the waters and make people cautious to raise a given accusation again.

I agree with Nabakov's point about Alabaska being an easy bus, though IMO the required resolve to finish him off on the part of the town makes him an equally easy target for a push for his lynch without needing to worry too much that it will be seen to fruition.

As for Pug... eh. I see why he's drawing votes but I don't think he's our best target for today. I'm still happy with my iamausername vote; he hasn't contributed anything of real value

in days

at all. Second on my list is Pug, and third is M4yhem.

[Cyberbob]

NabNab and Cyberbob have both pushed other cases and weakly attacked me, the most vocal proponant of the Pugwagon. I'd say they're good candidates for partners.

Er what

I'm not saying "wait guys what about X", by the way - I've been pushing iamausername's case since long before Pug was a viable option. I still think he's a better candidate - in his grand total of 8 posts so far he's managed to go beyond a single line of text in 2 of them.

Don't make the mistake of confusing "he's a better candidate" with "omg guys what about him ignore pug go after HIM", by the way - I have in no way opposed the Pug wagon whatsoever. I agree with it, as a matter of fact; I would have thrown my vote on it were it not for my greater happiness with my vote on iamausername. I believe I've said this before?

Why is Cyberbob a better lynch than Pug?

I'd like to know why, too - he hasn't said a word about me since laying it on.

[Cyberbob]

Since it is exactly what I would say if you were wagonning a buddy of mine, I don't believe you.

Kay.

Please also note my other point about having been on the iamausername wagon for longer than the Pug wagon has existed.

[Cyberbob]

Also - going back to the bit you quoted again - you have failed to outline why it is not something a townie would not do.

[Cyberbob]

I'm hovering between Twomz and Alabaska. I await their upcoming posts with great anticipation.

FoS: Twomz and Alabaska J

CyberBob, what happened to this. You very quickly drop suspicion derived from this incident of both players.

Twomz's response seemed shaky, but vaguely understandable - mostly because I saw nothing to indicate that his reasoning for the continuation of the vote-conga-line was anything other than lollery (and I know I'd find it hard to resist doing something like that simply for laughs). Alabaska's response struck me as reasonable, if a little over-reactive. I saw where he was coming from with regards to the thinness of your vote, but I wasn't so sure that it was deserving of a vote. It wasn't enough to warrant voting Alabaska over it, however.

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP:

Please also note my other point about having been on the iamausername wagon for longer than the Pug wagon has existed.

Irrelevant.

Also - going back to the bit you quoted again - you have failed to outline why it is not something a townie would not do.

Also irrelevant.

LMAO.

[Cyberbob]

Also, meta me; I'm always a pushy, opinionated little bastard.

I don't have to meta you to figure that one out. >_>

[Cyberbob]

At this point I'd be willing to switch to Alabaska if it means avoiding No Lynch, though I still hold that iamausername is far more worthy of our votes.

[Cyberbob]

Not even this?

I'm thinking regardless of Pug's alignment it would be in the town's best interest to use his one shot investigation tonight.

FOS: M4yhem

[Cyberbob]

Fos yourself.

no u

[Cyberbob]

Damn, I always miss a tonne of posts while I'm asleep.

Off to school in ten; will post more when I get home.

[Cyberbob]

Damn, I was about to ask for a claim. lol.

I'm torn between whether to hammer or not. I don't think Pug is as good a lynch as iamausername or Alabaska, but I guess

anyone

is better than No Lynch.

On that note, if I don't see anything to convince me

not

to hammer by the time I go to bed I'll do it then (should be about 7 hours). Does that sound reasonable?

[Cyberbob]

If Cyber doesn't hammer when he said he would, I can as well at about 1pm EST.

If I'm off target it will be earlier rather than later - I'm feeling a bit tired. Judging by the activity around this time it doesn't appear as though it will make a huge amount of difference either way.

[Cyberbob]

Because it would be a pointless move - even if I do it armlx will hammer Pug anyway.

It isn't like he's

that

much worse of a lynch than Alabaska, anyway. Cardflip aside, he hasn't exactly been a stellar townie either.

[Cyberbob]

That's a point I hadn't considered.

Vote: Alabaska J

Lucky you got here when you did - I was about two minutes from heading off to bed. :V

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP:

Unvote, Vote: Alabaska J

[Cyberbob]

I tracked iamausername and armlx - iamausername because I find the direction of a JB use to offer the most information in terms of whether someone is town or not and armlx because I figured if he was scum he'd be most likely to be the one picked to make the kill (assuming there was one made).

Anyway, iamausername visited TheHermit and armlx visited Alabaska J.

[Cyberbob]

Hmm. So Cyber is not for sure town. He could have easily faked a track on me and actually tracked IAUN.

I tracked both due to being motivated. Were you not paying attention?

[Cyberbob]

OK, sure. You're reaching a

lot

in terms of the fact that

any

other target would have been more likely for the kill to go through (because of your claim), but logically your reasoning is sound.

[Cyberbob]

If CyberBob is scum I think he tracked iamusername in the hopes that he might get the results before the NK was submitted, and fabricated the armlx results as they were clearly posted before his claim.

Finally, why not pass your ability over to Claus? [/quote]

The tracking of iamusername and armlx are rather poor choices.

I don't have any response to this except to maybe apologise if you disagree with my reasoning. I was trying to go for roles which would either be possibly used to advantage scum or which would be most likely picked to make a nightkill (these being ones which would otherwise be fairly useless/unconfirmable). If you think my choices were bad... *shrug*

He says he targets armlx because he figures armlx most likely to make the kill. However armlx was already cleared to use his delayed vig ability. There's no way scum would pass up a town supported vig attempt.

This point I will concede. I should have thought that one through a bit more.

Also I really don't see the utility of tracking the JK. It's somewhat possible the JK's target will be confirmable if a night action of some sort was blocked, why waste the Tracking ability when you can target someone that you will not get information on.

I figured that a buddy of his would be able to come to the rescue if he needed someone to confirm. As for the blocked person being informed... that's outguessing the mod as it really comes down to their personal preferences.

If CyberBob is scum I think he tracked iamusername in the hopes that he might get the results before the NK was submitted, and fabricated the armlx results as they were clearly posted before his claim.

This is an eminently reasonable conclusion from your POV. I don't know how the concern about faking results/actions is ever going to be assuaged, as any investigation/whatever scumbuddy combination would be able to pull something like that off with relative impunity.

[Cyberbob]

Okay, so my reason not to vote for Cyberbob is gone.

Is it?

Also,

Basically what I'm saying is

Scenario 1
Step 1) Mod waits for ALL actions to come in
Step 2) Sends out Motivation notice
Step 3) Motivation choice made and applied

Scenario 2
Step 1) Mod receives motivation notice and passes it on immediately
Step 2) Motivatee makes choices concious of having two abilities
Step 3) Mod waits for all actions to come in and resolves the night phase


CyberBob could you clarify which of the above seemed to happen?

Scenario 1.

[Cyberbob]

I know a promised a case on Bob but I'm not in the mood for proper analysis today.

That's cool, I'm too tired to properly rebut.

If Twomz was the one chosen to do the killing, would that mean the kill wouldn't go through if he died?

That depends on how CKD is handling action priorities.

Normally

, though, from what I've seen and experienced kills are handled simultaneously. Which would mean a kill attempted by Twomz would go through.

Since Hermit was jailblocked, does that make him suspect number one?

Maaaaaaybe, though this is a path heavily entangled with WIFOM - it all depends on how likely you think the scum would be to risk being tracked/watched making a kill as opposed to using their regular power.

[Cyberbob]

Between a Tracker and a Watcher it is more likely that the Tracker would make the NK, since he can fake claim an investigation as long as he doesn't have to claim first.

Your suspicions are based on factors that are beyond my control. No matter what I do, if I track someone whose claim comes before mine when the dice are rolled I'm under suspicion?

Doesn't seem very logical to me. You're reaching

heavily

- you make the assumption that the scum submitted a kill on TheHermit when nobody in their right mind would do so. You're also ignoring the possibility that the scum didn't even submit a kill in order to come up innocently in case of a track/watch - or hell, even that they might have submitted it in the form of Alabaska's poisoning.

[Cyberbob]

Claus, are you suggesting shaft.ed is the SK or that he should have taken its existence into account in his analysis?

[Cyberbob]

CyberBob, I'm not saying you're scummy because you could parrot already claimed targets. In fact both of your tracking results were on people who claimed after you. I'm simply pointing out that it's much harder to fake a watching claim than a tracking claim, which is relevant. It's also much harder to fake a watching claim than a hiding claim, so you can point that line back to me if you like.

I see. It would have been nice of you to be more clear in what you were saying, because your last post strongly looked like you were including this as part of the reason why you think I'm even vaguely scummy.

Also the mafia NK would not be in the "form" of poisoning. If armlx was mafia, the poisoning kill is on top of their regular night kill.

I'm saying that if armlx was mafia they could have used his poison in lieu of their regular kill - it gets the same job done without risking suspicion.

And I'm not reaching anywhere on TheHermit. My analysis is simply that regardless of TheHermit's alignment, the SK MUST kill him tonight.

And how would the SK plan on achieving that, given that TheHermit is basically guaranteed protection (if iamausername is the SK, he's dead either way)?

Also, on that note I just remembered that TheHermit won't be able to post any more due to an electrical storm killing his power supply (he said so on the forum we originate from). I think it's definitely in the town's best interest to get him replaced before today's end.

Mod: requesting replacement for TheHermit

The only assumption I make regarding the scum actually having submitted a NK is that iamusername is town. Since he submitted an action, I think it's reasonable to assume that if he were mafia then there would have been a NK submission.

Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there

wouldn't

have been a submission.

[Cyberbob]

Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there wouldn't have been a submission.

I thought you tracked IAUN to TheHermit last night.

I did, but his action in no way confirms him as town.

[Cyberbob]

If TheHermit had died when he was supposed to be protecting him (an action supported by the rest of the town no less), do you think he would have survived today?

[Cyberbob]

If TheHermit had died when he was supposed to be protecting him (an action supported by the rest of the town no less), do you think he would have survived today?

I think he would have just killed elsewhere.

I'm talking about the SK's kill. I don't think IAUNscum would risk having TheHermit be killed when he was supposed to be protecting him.

[Cyberbob]

I totally missed the part where we all agreed that I MUST PROTECT THEHERMIT N1 OR DIE. I'm so glad I decided to protect him anyway.

I'm pretty sure it was raised at some point.

Don't misunderstand me - all I'm saying is that your protecting TheHermit is a nulltell, nothing more.

[Cyberbob]

Egad.

FOS: shaft.ed

Will wait for his response before voting.

[Cyberbob]

Alright. Now that I'm finally caught up, cyberbob's day 1 play really rubs me wrong. He's responding to pressure really quickly (see the early winter wagon for an example.)

What, you'd rather me respond to pressure really slowly? I find it difficult to believe that this is the scummiest thing you were able to find in the game.

[Cyberbob]

Mrh. It's difficult to say when so many people are posting so little (ie. Rishi, Nabakov, M4yhem, IAUN & armlx). Before I can make a definitive bet I'm going to need to see more from these people.

[Cyberbob]

It seems to me the mafia is the best target for a lynch today, since the SK

can be used by the town as a directed kill on a player that is 50% likely to be mafia.

what

That entire post screams "hay guys lets lynch the mafia but not the SK" with a quick "oh the SK would be good too" thrown in at the end.

Vote: shaft.ed

[Cyberbob]

It's not the maths I'm worried about, it's that you're trying so hard to direct attention away from the SK and onto the mafia. The bolded part was more of an indication of the point where my jaw fell open - that you could think to try and suggest we control the SK is laughable.

[Cyberbob]

Everyone left alive except for themselves.

Also, thanks for proving my point about directing attention away from lynching the SK by ignoring it.

[Cyberbob]

How do you distinguish between SK-tells and mafia-tells?

Also, stop giving them (assuming you aren't the SK for a second) advice.

[Cyberbob]

How do you distinguish between SK-tells and mafia-tells?

Mafia have scumbuddies and they cannot use their night ability if they killed. SK's are generally very interested in self preservation.

Oh, I knew that. I was talking about this point in the game, where we essentially have two SKs on our hands.

Yes it's never been pointed out that the Stephen King role can identify the Serial Killer tonight [/sarcasm]. Are you paying attention?

Yes, but there's no reason to make it even more explicit than it already is.

[Cyberbob]

I can possibly see me announcing my target, but I don't think IAUN should.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, could you post your top three serial killer suspects?

Well, you would be at the top, followed by Nabakov and maybe TSPN (though that's rather weak).

[Cyberbob]

TSPN can't possibly be the SK, since I jailed him last night and we know the SK's kill went through.

Dang, forgot about that.

I don't really have a third candidate, then. I had to think pretty hard just to come up with TSPN.

[Cyberbob]

Unh. I like that shaft.ed is so up in arms with his suspicions of me when pretty much the only thing that created said suspicion is the fact that I was motivated, and happened to track people that claimed after me. Both things which were out of my control. :rolleyes:

[Cyberbob]

Unh. I like that shaft.ed is so up in arms with his suspicions of me when pretty much the only thing that created said suspicion is the fact that I was motivated, and happened to track people that claimed after me. Both things which were out of my control. :rolleyes:

No I have other reasons, I just haven't had a chance to thoroughly give day 1 a thorough reread.

Please do so, because I'm getting tired of the only thing thrown at me being something I had no control over.

[Cyberbob]

But you did have control over tracking armlx.

Right, but I did it for reasons which at the time seemed like pretty good ones.

[Cyberbob]

Right, but I did it for reasons which at the time seemed like pretty good ones.

I'm lazy, mind re-elaborating?

I figured your role made you most likely to be the mafia's pick for the nightkill-maker, but I forgot to take into account the fact that your target had already been sanctioned by the town.

There was however the unintended consequence, as you say, of clearing you of being the SK. Which is something.

[Cyberbob]

M4yhem, if you can't see how your behaviour is less townie than Claus'... *shrug*

Also,

But my role isn't dangerous unless it's in scum hands, which it isn't.

An ingenious defence.



As for the plan, seems pretty foolproof. There are only a minute number of scenarios where the town is screwed - it seems as though shaft.ed has pretty much every angle covered.

Unvote, Vote: NabakovNabakov

The real kick in the balls would be if Claus was scum.

[Cyberbob]

No, I mean in terms of the fact that pretty much everyone sees him as town (except M4yhem, but whether or not he's simply grasping at straws remains to be seen).

If he turned out to be scum it would be pretty damn funny.

[Cyberbob]

I happen to know that any other lynch is more likely to kill scum than mine.

You

know

this is totally unprovable without quoting your PM, so why bother saying it?

[Cyberbob]

Bob- It's true, so why shouldn't I say it? I'm trying to explain my point of view.

I'm about 98% sure you're the sk, fyi.

lol

If you're so sure about it, vote me. Quit farting around with these accusations-in-the-form-of-percantages and put your money where your mouth is.

[Cyberbob]

...

[Cyberbob]

Whatever.

So why can't we lynch bob? He's not cleared is he? He could be mafia if Twonz did the kill, he could be SK regardless.

Most people in the game aren't cleared. Do you have anything on me besides your confidence measured in percentages?

[Cyberbob]

M4yhem, you really know how to take all the fun out of a game. Just saying.

[Cyberbob]

Awesome game, guys. Don't think I'll be taking Tracker in a Smalltown game again any time soon though - it brought far more trouble than it was worth.

M4yhem, I won't say it. Promise.

[Cyberbob]

Thanks Bob, that's gentlemanly of you.
I know I was a bit of an ass, and took the game too personally. For that; I apologize.

It's cool. ^_^

[Cyberbob]

Ooo, I just noticed this:

4.)Hermit (Mafia Forensic Investigator) kills Cyberbob (townie tacker):
Result: Failure, Hermit is jailed, so can not perform night action.