Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over
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1.FOS: kloud, dalt, thinktank, xtoxm, kmd, ghostwriter, restfermata, crub, babygirl, Inspector Godot
2.FOS: Llamafluff
3.FOS: Goborage
4.FOS: Farside22
For 1:
I have a problem with every single person deciding that it's more important to random vote than to at least acknowledge this discussion if not for Goborage's lines than for LlamaFluff's announcement of his posting restriction. Nobody said in their first post anything about either. You don't have to random vote...LlamaFluff wrote:vote goboragefor even thinking about character claiming
Of course given a restriction of mine I doubt that vote will be of much use.
For 2:
You announce that character claiming is bad, but you pretty much roleclaim in your first two posts? However, your claim (apparently that your vote doesn't count) is easily testable, and I think we should have you attempt to hammer whoever we want to lynch. You get the least FOSiest FOS of everyone, because I guess your play is legit.
For 3:
I guess you are joking, but even so, I was confused the second LlamaFluff started accusing you of character claiming, and you didn't really refute this at first. But I guess you're not playing anymore, so w/e.
For 4:
For Rule 10.
There, now that I've FOS'ed everyone, let's continue.
Feel free not to answer the above, it's already been talked about too much.
Everyone
I don't see any reason why the mafia could not have a player with a voting restriction.LlamaFluff wrote:apart from the name claim thing, his willingness to put me under suspicion for just having a vote restiction is scummy to me.
I seem to be able to find LlamaFluff's vote in the first two vote counts. Is there any reason why people were suggesting that his vote would not show up on vote counts (i.e. did I miss something?)
LlamaFluff
I think any doctor is worth more than any townie. I think any townie with a vote is worth more than any townie without a vote. If you go based on these standards, if I had no idea which person to lynch and had no more time to think about it, I'd probably pick you, instead of random. If the tables were turned, I would not self vote (in this case, it clearly doesn't do anything). I would, however, advocate my lynch over the lynch of someone who had the potential to be a doc or a cop.LlamaFluff wrote: Question to you though - If you had my role would you be asking for people to lynch you if it got outed?
After much deliberation, I have determined that your role screws us over pretty much equally whether we lynch you now or whether you prevent us from being able to sucessfully lynch the scum later on in the game (Thanks, mod). Why Xtoxm would be advocating your lynch over scumhunting is beyond me. However, I am not opposed to thinking about pulling the trigger if we're caught with our pants down and nowhere close to a lynch, and neither should you.
Do you think this makes him scum?LlamaFluff wrote: I think that if we had a massclaim (I am NOT suggesting one) I could point you to an episode that each character could be considered scum from their actions. However some characters would be more considered to be town and others scum. When everyone is known scum can start manipulating cases into partial attacks on who the character is.
So yes I got aggressive when gobo made two refrences to the same character in the way he did. Having people start claiming, even jokingly is a horrible thing as it opens the doors to speculation. I was not attempting to instigate a role claim with my actions but to shut down anyone from following suit.
Xtoxm
I am seriously pretending everything you say is in the voice of Hitsugaia. However, it's been a long time since I've seen Bleach, so I have no idea if that's his name or not, or even how to spell it. It's also hard, because I watched in Japanese, and your posts are in English.
Xtoxm is suspicious for suggesting to lynch LlamaFluff on page 3ish or whatever as opposed to later, though. While I find his ideas to be correct, his timing is suspect.
No. I think reborn was very careful about not stating whether or not his role is Cleveland.Xtoxm wrote: This is why I asked Gobo not to answer that, you have just catorgorically said he wasn't roleclaiming, thus meaning you are not Cleveland.
If my role name was "dragon" and I said "Dragons rule!" am I role claiming?
His action was not a character-claim, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't saying something that could be misconstrued as roleclaiming.
KMD
...why?Kmd4390 wrote:A vote restriction is (likely) not scum.
QFT. While I can see why dalt's vote looks a bit suspicious, I would not be surprised if it was something scum saw and decided to jump upon, with a little more tact than dalt jumping on xtoxm's wagon.Kmd4390 wrote:What's this dalt bandwagon about? Is this really a bandwagon built over a bandwagon vote on xtoxm?
I doubt that we'll be traveling through space in the next 20 years. I doubt we'll lower our dependence on fossil fuels before we find a new energy source.Kmd4390 wrote:I doubt that there would be voteless scum.
But it could happen.
I don't like confirming roles based on what that person says. Picture this: day one, every single person says they have this restriction, and eleven people vote for one person. How do you know which is the one with the restriction?
babygirl
I don't know if you can necesarily conclude that he's avoiding the thread, so this looks like it could be a bit eager to me. I'm also playing with the advanced knowledge that he got replaced.babygirl86 wrote:I don't see anything overly scummy about ghostwriter at all. Dalt, however is still suspicious to me. Although it was only one day, he has indeed posted since he posted his vote here and left. That makes me wonder if he is avoiding explaining his vote.
unvote, vote dalt
thinktank
Oh god you don't know how much I like you right now.thinktank wrote: Assumptions are BAD.
My only concern with you is that you seem to be solely responding to what others are saying. I would like to see some hard analysis from you, because I think you are making the most sense.
Inspector Godot
In a game of lying and deceit, I'll take your word for it...Inspector Godot wrote: I'm not sure if he's faking it or not. If he is then it rules him out of being Mafia in my book. I hadn't even thought of a SK being in this game. The fact that you added that whole SK spiel at the end of your post is duly noted.
Are you accusing Elvis Knits of being a potential SK? What does "duly noted" exactly mean?
Please see RestFermata.
GhostWriter
o_OGhostWriter wrote:(and I purposely avoided it last time, hoping it'd blow over)
As much as I'm not a huge fan of breadcrumbing as it is a metagame tactic, I do not find it to be poor play.GhostWriter wrote:To say that is like saying that you feel gobo was a bad enough player to come right out and sneak a claim in, not only at the start of the game, but PREgame.
RestFermata
RestFermata posts a lot about the Cleavland claim issue, and at this time I don't see her actively trying to do anything other than wait for goborage to speak again. With this specific game, scum will most likely be trying to run down the clock, and this makes her appear to be participating when she is actually not posting much actual content.
I don't like how she waits until post 190, when goborage has been replaced, to bring up all the things she doesn't like about Xtoxm.
This post is a bandwagon jump of a different kind. Instead of voting for a person, RF quickly agrees withRestFermata wrote:I was just thinking earlier today when I was having a snack that BG looked suspicious, but I hadn't noticed the fact that she had avoided the xtoxm wagon until I read you guys' post. Good snooping. It does appear she had a tendency to lightly waltz around accusing him, being very soft on him in general, always preferring to keep the limelight on other players. I also don't like her complete 180. While I too changed my mind, I did it because new information came to light that I hadn't realized before. She seemed to do it for absolutely no reason, or perhaps just because she doesn't want to be alone in her accusation!
I'd be OK with either an xtoxm or BG wagon, as well. If we lynch one and he/she turns out scum, it'll shed more light on the other.
and congradulates a few members of the town.
IG does it too.Inspector Godot wrote:Good job spotting that BG/Xtoxm connection. It does seem very suspicious. When I have time to do a reread (probably tomorrow) I'll look into it some more.
I can definately see this action as eager to be helpful without being helpful. Both IG and RF are players that I have not seen go out of their way to hunt scum, or even for that matter, post much in the way of new content.
reborn
Fishing?reborn537 wrote:Goborage WASN'T character-claiming!! I know what you're trying to do, what you're trying to make me say, so stop fishing right now!!
You can't just say something's a scumtell.reborn537 wrote:
This basically amounts to "I always act scummy in early game, seriously, go meta."LlamaFluff wrote:I tend to vote a lot in the early game, seriously go meta. Its a fairly logical path too but that doesnt seem something you are concerned about pointing out here.
1. I think scum try to avoid scumtells.
2. I think town try to avoid scumtells.
3. I think people play how they're gonna play.
4. I don't see how you can accuse an action as being a scumtell without clearly explaining why, in this case, it is a scumtell. Scumtells must be one time only things, because if you think about it, anything that is a scum tell instanly becomes not a scumtell, since scum will avoid it.
The only legitimate scumtell that transcends games is truthfully claiming scum. Everything else is playstyle.
I'm also going to say that if his vote truly doesn't count, then it really doesn't matter where he puts it, and that alone gives him more than enough grounds to vote every single person in every single post if he felt like it (and was telling the truth).
Farside
Represent.farside22 wrote:
Auctioner: She had nine STDs.-
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If I didn't mention you, I don't really have any questions for you at the moment, nor do I think you're particularly scummy.
Anyone I did mention I've got my eye on at least (thinktank, kmd) to flat out suspicion (RF, IG, reborn, and BG/Xtoxm pre-claim).
I'm going toUnvote, Vote Rebornfor now. I have my reservations about RF and IG, and I'm still not too keen on the lovers claim (as in, I believe it, but I don't think they're in the clear).
I may have some no-access on Wed. but I don't expect it to last more than 24 hours.-
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I think a lot of people have come to the consensus that this is a null tell and whether or not you are Cleveland doesn't really matter.reborn537 wrote:Yes. The reason I have been so careful about claiming Cleveland or not is because I believe LF is TRYING to ascertain whether I am Cleveland or not (despite his rigorous statements to the contrary), and as previously stated a character claim only helps the scum. Whether LF is scum or not, the real scum would definitely want me to claim, which is why I've been so careful.
But I'd like to point out that not only am I fallible, but I also did most of my read from 2:00 am to 5:00 am in the morning, and may not have been fully awake.
If you want to follow the Wiki 100%, then you should check my join date and tell us which one of us would know more about scum tells.The Wiki wrote:As Mafia players grow in experience, they will typically expand their knowledge of what constitutes scumtell.
Oh. I guess the wiki's on my side. One down...The Wiki wrote:A type of voting which can be a scum tell; when a player votes and then unvotes a particular player repeatedly during a Day, or switches their votes to several different players over the course of the Day, it may be because they are scum trying to find a good place to land their vote on an ProTown player without attracting too much suspicion.
On the other hand, it is hard to use this tell reliably, as some players simply move their vote around a lot, no matter what their Alignment or Role.
Not quite. See below.STD and Reborn wrote: 1. I think scum try to avoid scumtells.WIFOM
2. I think town try to avoid scumtells.Doesn't mean they always do, as with scum
Doesn't mean you should policy lynch players who give scum tells.STD and Reborn wrote:3. I think people play how they're gonna play.Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do
First of all, I'm not protecting LF, and if you think I am, please point out where I am so I can either be corrected or prove you wrong.STD and Reborn wrote:4. I don't see how you can accuse an action as being a scumtell without clearly explaining why, in this case, it is a scumtell. Scumtells must be one time only things, because if you think about it, anything that is a scum tell instanly becomes not a scumtell, since scum will avoid it.WIFOM Also you underestimate the amount of slips people tend to make. Like the amount of WIFOM reasoning you're using now to protect LF
Second of all, no, this is not WIFOM. Yes, it's metagaming, but it's not WIFOM. I'm not saying that scum would do this because they're trying to look like town and be like, "why would I do this as scum?"
I'm saying it because it's bloody obvious that if someone where scum, they're not going to do the things that act like it. Notice I'm not going to say they're acting like town. Now that would be a WIFOM,if it were contained in an argument by a scum describing how said scum is being protown.Go give that wiki another look through.
Selective reading? That explains why the wiki doesn't agree with youSTD and Reborn wrote:The only legitimate scumtell that transcends games is truthfully claiming scum. Everything else is playstyle.So the lynch is randomly determined every day then, with no other contributing factors?
No. You see, some scumtells don't transcend games. They're relevant to the game at hand, and they represent things that shouldn't occur in the game. Not every wishywashy player, not every awkward post, not every lurker, and not every misuse of logic makes the person scum. It's up to the players to figure out in the game which of the "scumtells" are legit and which are not. I don't think you've done that.
You, my friend, have decided that wishy-washyness is a scumtell, and have decided that every single situation is appropriate for wishy-washyness to be a scumtell. You have not decided to actually think for yourself and ask yourself if this is appropriate to our situation at hand. THIS IS WRONG. You cannot just say that something is a scum tell and expect it to be a scum tell in every single game.
So you've decided to go on a smear campaign and attack LF because you think you've caught a scumtell. That is incredibly scummy. You've decided that you're going to ignore logic and reasoning and not look at what LF's votes actually mean (I mean, you posted them, but I don't think you really, truly looked at them, nor did you seem to care after LF explained them).
At this point, I'm just actually saying that if I did:STD and reborn wrote:I'm also going to say that if his vote truly doesn't count, then it really doesn't matter where he puts it, and that alone gives him more than enough grounds to vote every single person in every single post if he felt like it (and was telling the truth).No. Even though his vote doesn't count, it still holds sway with the town. Because he has everyones attention, he has to be careful where he puts his vote. With great power comes great responsibility.
Unvote Vote: RestFermata
Unvote Vote: Llama Fluff
Unvote Vote: Babygirl
Unvote Vote: Reborn
Then I'm doing a lot more harm than he is.
I'm also saying that the wishy washy "scumtell" that you oh so love doesn't really apply in this situation, because his vote doesn't count (allegedly), so I don't see why he's being scummy, when he could accomplish the same thing if he said:
Unpizza, Pizza: Kmd
Unpizza, Pizza: Kloud-
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reborn537 wrote:elvis - you'd be right if he'd given a case and then voted for me and then I'd voted for him.
BUT he didn't. He just dismissed my argument with poor points and then voted for me without cause. That is without question scummy, surely? And furthermore I only did FoS.
You can't learn mafia from a textbook.-
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Now that's a WIFOM.Inspector Godot wrote:I'm sure a scum would speculate who they're going to kill early in-game IN THE GAME THREAD.
If anyone can give me a better definition of WIFOM than the wiki, I'd be glad to hear it, and I'll probably concede my WIFOM points.
I'm talking theory, not practice. I'm saying that scum who pay attention or even scum who think logically are going to avoid doing things like draw attention to themselves. I'm not saying they're going to avoid it to be like the town.Kmd4390 wrote:Entirely WIFOM. Scum excuse scum tells by calling them too obvious and saying scum would never do such a thing.
Basically, if I get caught being overeager in one game, I'm going to be less likely to throw myself out there in my next game as scum. I guess I worded my statement wrong. I apologize. I did not mean to imply that all scum avoided scumtells.
Yes, and that would be an example of WIFOM.Kmd4390 wrote:
But scum do things that are seen as obvious scumtells and they DO say "why would I do that as scum?"STD wrote: Second of all, no, this is not WIFOM. Yes, it's metagaming, but it's not WIFOM. I'm not saying that scum would do this because they're trying to look like town and be like, "why would I do this as scum?"
Nowhere do I say scum do these things, and then claim "why would I do that?" because I'm not talking about actual events, I'm talking about metagame, which Reborn opened pandora's box for when he suggested that wishy-washy people must be scum. He's using something that could be helpful for the town and turning it on its side. This is the meat and potatoes of my argument. The WIFOM spiel is more like a glass of wine.
If we set aside the WIFOM parts (which I'll admit, I'm not so keen on myself since my understanding of WIFOM is fuzzy at best), how does the rest of my argument fair, kmd?-
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You're my favorite.elvis_knits wrote:But as to STD saying you should explain why something is a scumtell in any given situation, I definitely agree. Because more information is better. Often more is gained from the discussion of such things.-
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No one even mentioned either of the two things that llama brought up. I thought that was weird.GhostWriter wrote:
Can you rephrase this? I don't understand what you're getting at. I apologize for not being able to, but I can't, and I'd really like to.STD wrote:I have a problem with every single person deciding that it's more important to random vote than to at least acknowledge this discussion if not for Goborage's lines than for LlamaFluff's announcement of his posting restriction. Nobody said in their first post anything about either. You don't have to random vote...
You also mentioned that gobo was a bad player for trickling a claim in. I disagree that he's a bad player for breadcrumbing.
As for the o_O, I don't think that you should be ignoring things and hoping they'd blow over.-
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1. This is only half of Llama's post.GhostWriter wrote:I ignored Llama because I knew that wasn't a claim. I tried to ignore it, because, at the time that it was beginning, I felt it was obvious, and that no one would follow his(wrong) way of thinking about it. I did not care so much that he had begun to breadcrumb, but that he had done it in a situation that it did not make sense, and then pushing it so hard. This was all stated in the total of my posts (except the "blown over" part. That was not explained before, not clearly, at least...)
2. I don't really think that people are scummy for ignoring a post with potential information, since everyone did it, and not everyone is scum.
This is an example of a scumtell that clearly doesn't fit for this particular game.
I just don't think it makes a player bad if they breadcrumb. I think they should try to contain all their plays to non-meta plays, but that doesn't mean that it's bad. I think there are advantages and disadvantages (that I can't really think of right now).RestFermata wrote:What is the advantage of breadcrumbing in a theme game, where scum often have safeclaims anyway? Sorry, this is just a strategic question from a newbie.-
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Because going under the radar is not equal to scum. I'd love it if he posts more, but I don't think it's appropriate to accuse him of being scum because he's going under the radar. You should construct an argument from the content of his posts if you want to convince me.Inspector Godot wrote:
Because he's doing such a damn good job of going under the radar. I know that must sound stupid but he's probably our least talked about player and no one really minds.Kmd4390 wrote:Well if you have no case, why do you feel that think specifically of all people needs to be looked at. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just asking, why thinktank?
You should vote for who you think is scum, regardless of wagoning or not wagoning.babygirl86 wrote:ok you guys accuse me for being scum when I hop on bandwagons, and then I vote for someone who ISNT on a bandwagon and you don't like that move either? make up your minds people
@ Xtoxm: Has Elvis_Knits done anything specific to earn your vote, or does it come from suspicion on dalt? If you have already answered this question, I apologize, and would ask that you direct me to a post where you have.
It seems that the people you think are town I think are scum, and the people you think are scum I think are town.-
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For every word you don't post, I'll post three.thinktank wrote:StD: Posts are somewhat overly verbose but comes of as pro town.
Can we at least not have thinktank die? Deadline's in less than one week, and I don't want someone to jump the fence right before and kill him. If you really think he's scum, you can keep them on there, but I'd like to see those votes removed in the near future because it doesn't seem like you're voting for him because he's scum, just for what appears to be his playstyle.-
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Mod (and players): I will have no access on the 26-28th.
I am okay with an IG lynch, as I do find him suspicious, although I'd like to read over his posts again before I commit.
I am, of course, still happy with lynching reborn. I realize my argument was not worded very well, but I still find his play to be suspect.
I look forward to xtoxm's next post.-
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@ Xtoxm: I don't really think that your post shows reasons where you want EK lynched.
Xtoxm wrote:Um, sorry? Yes I have. I have stated suspicion for Dalt (Now yourself) and Crub.EK wrote:I am suspicious of xtoxm for not looking at any players besides llama as scum.
That was the only portion of the post that related to EK. What exactly is your case on EK/dalt?Xtoxm wrote:This is a direct mistruth about me, and makes me very happy with my current vote on you, not on Llama.-
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Mod, can you fix that quote, please? That's supposed to be said by Xtoxm.
Thanks!-
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Mod: This was not said by me, it was said by EK, I think. In xtoxm's post, it was in a quote that was unlabeled. Could you correct this?Save The Dragons wrote: I am suspicious of xtoxm for not looking at any players besides llama as scum.
Thanks again!
Fixed.-
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I think you're scum, so blowing your brains out would be helpful to the town, so...
Pizza: reborn-
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And thisSave The Dragons wrote:reborn
Fishing?reborn537 wrote:Goborage WASN'T character-claiming!! I know what you're trying to do, what you're trying to make me say, so stop fishing right now!!
You can't just say something's a scumtell.reborn537 wrote:
This basically amounts to "I always act scummy in early game, seriously, go meta."LlamaFluff wrote:I tend to vote a lot in the early game, seriously go meta. Its a fairly logical path too but that doesnt seem something you are concerned about pointing out here.
1. I think scum try to avoid scumtells.
2. I think town try to avoid scumtells.
3. I think people play how they're gonna play.
4. I don't see how you can accuse an action as being a scumtell without clearly explaining why, in this case, it is a scumtell. Scumtells must be one time only things, because if you think about it, anything that is a scum tell instanly becomes not a scumtell, since scum will avoid it.
The only legitimate scumtell that transcends games is truthfully claiming scum. Everything else is playstyle.
I'm also going to say that if his vote truly doesn't count, then it really doesn't matter where he puts it, and that alone gives him more than enough grounds to vote every single person in every single post if he felt like it (and was telling the truth).
And he posted a response that I do not think I responded to (because he put his response in a quote, and I missed it). One hour, when I have time, I'll look back on it and make sure I understand what he said and respond to it. Sorry for the long overdue post, Reborn. I promise I'll get it in before I leave.-
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There is no substitute for a clear, consisce argument, presented with proper analysis. It should be more than just throwing accusations of misrepresentation and faulty logic around. I realize now that perhaps my case on you, although there, is hard to see, and I want to present it to you, fully, with new material. My sentiment in these posts may seem hostile, and that is because I feel entitled to it because I do not appriciate it when people insult me. Although my join date says I'm over 4 years here, I've only been here off and on for about three years total, and I'm coming back from a long hiatus right now. I did not mean to lord my experience over you, since clearly I do not know what experience you have at other sites or in person. I should not have used that as an argument, and I apologize.
That said, I plan on tearing you a new one, argument style.
Here's what you've said about LlamaFluff's votes, and I wish I had said this earlier.
1. A vote in the random voting stage. I commend LF on having something to say instead of "Let me roll a die. It landed on 6. Clearly Steve is scum."reborn wrote:1) Gob (for thinking of character claiming - this after ONE Cleveland quote I might add, and right before he full claims his role)
2) Xtoxm (let's face it, this is pretty OMGUS, although I'm not sure I like Xtoxmm that much myself)
3) Ghostwriter (post 100... trying to make sense of this... go and look back, I guarantee headache)
4) unvotes a couple of posts later (post 104, but who's counting?)
5) Back on goborage (basically because goborage was afk I think)
2. Xtoxm was suspicious, as you said.
3. I'll give you this one, I don't really know where he's going.
4. I think he was correcting a mistake he made, but he can speak for himself on this issue.
5. Yes, because goborage was his top suspect. Wow. He's going back to his original suspect.
My god, four votes? One of them in the random voting stage, so three total up to this point in the game? Can anyone legitimately tell me that four votes in 12 pages in a game is wishy-washy? Hell, I've voted more than four times in this game, even if you ignore Crub's votes. You accused him of wishywashy-ness, I say you're accusation is full of crap.
Your case is weakened even more when we revisit the point where Llama's vote does not count. Clearly, he does not have to follow any standards of voting, because his vote is merely a word. I know you did not like my pizza analogy, but it is correct, because in his situation, there's no difference. My question to you: How can you be wishywashy with votes if you don't even have one?
The other part of your case against LlamaFluff, where Llamafluff gets on Gob's case for the Cleveland incident,
LlamaFluffl wrote:I know I did. That was intentional for the reason of character claiming being bad. Was I 100% beyond a doubt sure that gobo had just fullclaimed? No of course not. The thing was he was being very careless with his role if he is Cleveland, and could of been trying to instigate a mass character claim. In this setup I view character claim as a bad thing, so I wanted to shut it down before it even started to begin. I dont understand why that is a bad thing to try and do.
I'm not sure how you can call his wanting to stop the claim from occuring to be ridiculous. Instead of arguing against his point, you suggested that the claiming of a character would trigger a fullclaim. Llamafluff is clearly suggesting that he does not think Gobo fullclaimed. I'm not sure you two meant the same thing when you said "full claim." I personally don't see how one character claim will instigate a mass character claim, but I also can't say that I know it would not.reborn wrote:This is just so ridiculous. Even if I was Cleveland, how would saying "I'm Cleveland" be fullclaiming?! The amount of quotes flying around on Day 1 (evil monkey, anybody?) and you choose a Cleveland quote and then back it up with a misquote later on. You're trying to justify it with some irrelevent reasoning that makes you seem pro-town. I don't buy into Xtoxm's argument that we should lynch you because your ability is bad, but I still think you're a good play, because you're incredibly scummy.
You seem to think it's impossible for LF to have been confused. I think it's pretty impossible for him not to have been, the way he was going at it.
The difference between you and him is that in his mistakes and his playstyle, I believe he's actively going after people he thinks are scum.
I believe that you, however, are choosing to accuse him, back your case by something on the wiki, make light of his confusion, and finger him. This is why I wish to lynch you.-
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On a related note, I just ate pizza.
1. I held back I didn't feel it was pertinent to the game to rant on how you insulted me when in reality you didn't.reborn537 wrote:STD don't worry about offending me in mafia... the whole point of this is that we are arguing, and I'm not going to hold back so I certainly wouldn't wish anyone else to.
I'll answer your case in the morning, although once again it seems to be a case whereby you say that I'm scum for going for LF.
2. I'm not going to be here in the morning, so unless something drastic happens, I probably won't change my vote. I'll try to check before I leave, but I can't make any promises (and I'm pretty much gone until deadline).
My other suspicions:
Giving the town a lovers couple and a townie that can't vote is really bad for the town. I do not wish to outguess the mod, but I will say that I will be disappointed if I find this is the case.
That being said, I think it is likely that the statement "One of Xtoxm or Babygirl is scum" is true.
Xtoxm for his page 3 advocacy of a LF lynch, and Babygirl for her one paragraph posts before bandwagon hopping.
However, there's always the possibility that if they're town, then the mafia will kill them tonight, so I figure we need not waste our time discussing what ifs if they're likely not to survive the night.
I would be surprised if KMD, Kloud, or Ghost Rider turned up to be scum. I would be less surprised if LlamaFluff, but even so, he's not on my list right now. Thinktank's a bit of an enigma to me, but his play is smart and his actions seem sincere, so I don't think he's scum right now.
Still wondering about EK. I'm neutral on her.
RF seems like she could be scum, because I haven't seen her go out of her way to catch scum, but this statement seems sincere:
I thought IG was suspicious, but he claimed, so I don't really think so anymore, since I'm willing to beleive his claim for now.RestFermata wrote: And yeah, you're right, I'm not a very good scumhunter. But I am trying. And maybe that makes me look like I'm posting a whole lot of nothing, trying to appear helpful when I'm not, but I don't think that's an excuse to just sit back and plain old not even try to be helpful.
So, like I said in my first (well, technically second) post, my list was:
Reborn
RestFermata
IG
Xtoxm
Babygirl
I currently think that the scum are found in this list:
Reborn
RestFermata
Elvis_Knits
Babygirl
Xtoxm
Maybe IG, but I'm willing to trust his claim for now.
Althought I don't think all of the above are scum, I think they're more likely than everyone else.-
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The last time I post tonight is probably the last time I post this day, so speak now or forever hold your peace. I'll probably be keeping my vote on Reborn, although I may unvote and try to make it home before the deadline ends, but I kind of don't see that happening.
@ Babygirl and Restfermata: I hope your hands get better soon.-
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I think attacking you today would be silly.Xtoxm wrote:I think that you attacking me and BG is silly.
I think discussing it tomorrow is not a bad idea. I'm not so keen on lynching either of you unless I know fairly certainly that one of you is scum, but based on both your play, I'd say that it's not a far cry from the truth.
KMD's right here, and if you're wondering why he's not in other parts of my post, well, I believe the above quoted portion has something to do with that.Save The Dragons wrote: I would be surprised ifKMD, Kloud, or Ghost Rider turned up to be scum. I would be less surprised if LlamaFluff, but even so, he's not on my list right now. Thinktank's a bit of an enigma to me, but his play is smart and his actions seem sincere, so I don't think he's scum right now.-
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And if you would like me to list ways in which I find KMD to be town, I'd start by telling you one of them is on this page.-
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Is Ghost Rider even a thing, or am I just completely illiterate?
I apologize.
Would you mind telling me your case against EK, or directing me to where you posted it?-
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Then my next question is what's wrong with a reborn lynch.-
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Fair enough.
My third question: Why does a true gunslinger never forget the face of their father?-
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You shouldn't ask me to read things.Save The Dragons wrote: or am I just completely illiterate?-
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Okay, this is pretty much it for me. I'm keeping my vote on reborn. See you all on D2.-
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What did you think of this, Xtoxm? I know it's not really a damning case against you or very important right now, but I'm curious.Save The Dragons wrote:
I think attacking you today would be silly.Xtoxm wrote:I think that you attacking me and BG is silly.
I think discussing it tomorrow is not a bad idea. I'm not so keen on lynching either of you unless I know fairly certainly that one of you is scum, but based on both your play, I'd say that it's not a far cry from the truth.-
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This game has turned into a farce.
Unvote.
Since I don't know either your alignment or reborn's...GW wrote:Didn't I say stay away from reborn?
This power block has only one vote and a good reason to suggest you're scum.reborn wrote:seeing as STD and LF have formed a power block I don't think I'm going to be able to convince anyone about them until we have some night info on the table.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember asking you for this info and I didn't get it.xtoxm wrote:I've said why I think she's scum.
So you're saying that BG and Xtoxm are scum partners who have claimed to be lovers? BG claimed first, mind you, so if you're insinuating that Xtoxm is lying about being a lover, you're saying that BG is scum, too.EK wrote:Also, I noticed xtoxm is modding a lovers game. It seems like an odd coincidence that he got a lover role in this game. Coincidences do happen and I don't know why scum would even lie about having a role like that. So I don't knwo if it's likely at all that he's lying. Pretty unlikely, actually. But I just want that bit of info out there.
I love you, too.reborn wrote:Oh my GOD I can't believe I'm actually saying this but I wish STD was here!
Reborn is right, I'd rather lynch EK than:
1. Expose another power role
2. Mass claim
3. No lynch
I'm starting more and more to think that EK is scum. Her little metagaming snippets sound reachy I'd rather lynch a townie than to be caught with our pants down at deadline with all our votes on our doctor/cop.
This is not to say I don't find her to be scummy. I do have some reservations, and I'm probably going to withhold my vote at the moment until I'm more sure.
I <3 you right now.RestFermata wrote:God, this is basically a really painful, drawn-out version of a mass claim. And guess what! I bet everyone's going to claim pro-town! Surprise! Guess there are no scum in this game, case closed.
While I currently suspect reborn to be town, I could easily see SK (based on name and the phrase "death ray or whatever"), and I'm going to be a little wary if we see more than one night kill.
Although I do think that it is possible, if not likely, that one of the lovers is scum, I am not so keen on lynching them until day two, when we have a little more info, especially since Xtoxm confuses me and I want to at least hear from BG's replacement. I can support a lynch, but I'm also a little hesitant to knock off two of our players if I'm more convinced other people are scum.-
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??? This comment was in jest, and merely an observation. I hardly see how it's complaining. I find the fact that it's turned into what it has interesting.elvis_knits wrote:There's a lot of complaining going on here. I'm not sure what RF, STD or reborn hope to accomplish by complaining and calling this game a farce and a botch. It just makes me want to stop posting. Which we can't afford to do.
I'll give you that, but you tried to pin him as a lurker who haunted the Coney Island forum, looking at this thread but not posting, when he has two other threads in Coney Island.E_K wrote:Re: some of my meta comments -- I assume STD means when I said kloud wasn't posting in the game but browsing the forum. I stand by it because 1)It's scummy not to be active in the game near deadline 2) It made him post almost immediately upon being called out.
Yes, he was lurker. No, he probably wasn't avoiding the game. Once someone decided to attack me for posting in a Mish Mash thread but not in the game, and it pissed me off, because it was irrelevant.
It's how you presented your argument that I find suspicious.
I'm referring to this one as well:
Again, you presented a fairly weak argument in meta, as an attempt to paint a negative picture. It sounds to me like you're desperate.elvis_knits wrote: Re: my point about xtoxm modding a lover's game -- I know it's a far-fetched gambit, and I admitted it's probably nothing. I just noticed it, saw it was aweird coincidence and couldn't stop myself from commenting.
As for lynching: I don't think we need to randomly lynch people until we get the scum, nor do I think reborn's advocating that.
However, our lynch is our only (known) tool for removing the scum, and if we do nothing, then we're at their mercy.-
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I can see this as a possibility, so until I get the time to look back over your posts, I probably won't be voting for you.elvis_knits wrote:The meta points was me grabbing at straws as we approached a deadline within a few hours and all my main suspects were gone. I agree they weren't great points. They were meant to generate discussion more than anything.
I'm opposed to voting the lovers just because I'm not a big fan of the possibility of losing two townies, but I still feel that had they not claimed, their play definitely could have merited a vote from me, so I'm torn on this issue, too.
Even worse, I'm starting to pack and I'm leaving on Sunday for school, so I'm not going to have a lot of time to do the things I want to with this game, but I'll try to get it done before the deadline hits.-
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Here's two reasons:
And:STD wrote:Xtoxm is suspicious for suggesting to lynch LlamaFluff on page 3ish or whatever as opposed to later, though. While I find his ideas to be correct, his timing is suspect.
Your case on E_K consists of not liking dalt, who flaked, bandwagoning you + one statement by E_K.-
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No, you haven't. You've gone over the logic in your action, and I agree that it makes sense, and had I been there, I probably would have suggested that it would be a good plan if we were caught at the deadline with no feasible option. But I have no clue why you did it as a page 3 plan of action.
On your second point, I have no idea what you meant by that, and after you fix that sentence, I'd like you to possibly give examples.
Because if you don't, then all I had to say to your post was that you were generally scummy, and there's not much you can argue against it.
I'd also like to point out that I never said you deserved to be voted by me. I said you could have merited a vote, and you asked why, so I told you why. I'm focusing on E_K right now, and you're not even the lover I would vote if I wanted to vote a lover right now, so I'm not sure why you're getting uppity about this.-
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That was a joke. Please tell me you understood that. Please tell me you did.
So this is how you respond when someone asks you to clarify your position? Awesome. If you want to counter my points, then I'll talk to you. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but if you can't prove that then I'm going to assume I'm right.
Right now, I really cannot find a case on E_K. I've asked several times for a case on E_K, no one could provide. I looked back on E_K's posts, and the only damning this are what RestFermata just said, and what I said about the meta stuff being desperate, and only RF's is something that overly suspicious.-
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For the record, I <3 sarcasm, and encourage it in certain situations.-
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I have not played many games with inventors...I would like to hear from reborn.-
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I would be sad if he answered my question only with names.-
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I am definitely not a fan of xtoxm's flavor of the week voting style (are you going to vote me again if I say that there's 3 points against you now?). It seriously is starting to seem like he's throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.
His case against me was non-existent.
His case against E_K was weak at best.
His case against reborn does not even try to include everything that has happened before page 35.
The problem is, your playstyle at the moment is getting quite emotional rather than rational, so I'm trying to think as to whether you're sowing the seeds of discord or just genuinely playing...wierd.
However, for now I willVote: Xtoxm, until you convince me otherwise or die.
I want to know what thinktank is thinking right now.-
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Did you think this statement would do anything? Well, other than the fact that it makes me more confident my vote's in the right place.Xtoxm wrote:If you knew anything about me, you'd know i'm town this game.
Let me tell you something about me. I respond better to facts and arguments rather than meta. In fact, I'm not a huge fan of meta. And for the time being, since I've been gone, I'm kind of happy because I can play meta free. I have no intentions of looking up past games you've been in and seeing how you act because it's none of my concern. I want you to either rebutt my arguments or bitchslap me upside the head with facts that state that I was wrong. You clearly think I'm wrong. Prove it.-
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I think it's time we killed the lovers, because it's pretty clear to me that one is scum.
Sorry, rockatansky.-
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thinktank, me, IG, reborn, LlamaFluff...anyone I'm missing?Xtoxm wrote:Townies, take note of who is trying to get the lovers lynched today.
I think we should put you up there on that list too, since you're the one who convinced me.-
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It's classic avoidance. He had his chance to speak to me about what I want to talk about (he still does, mind you, and I might take my vote off of him if he can convince me).
However, since he's proving that he's going to be nothing more than dead weight and a pain in the ass instead of trying to play the game, I'm getting more and more happy with my vote.-
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Save The Dragons wrote:Here's two reasons:
And:STD wrote:Xtoxm is suspicious for suggesting to lynch LlamaFluff on page 3ish or whatever as opposed to later, though. While I find his ideas to be correct, his timing is suspect.
Your case on E_K consists of not liking dalt, who flaked, bandwagoning you + one statement by E_K.
Explain.Save The Dragons wrote:I am definitely not a fan of xtoxm's flavor of the week voting style (are you going to vote me again if I say that there's 3 points against you now?). It seriously is starting to seem like he's throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.
His case against me was non-existent.
His case against E_K was weak at best.
His case against reborn does not even try to include everything that has happened before page 35.-
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Xtoxm wrote:I did not say careless = scum, I say if you were town, you had been careless.
Well, scum knowing you can't vote is very bad, be you town.
Consider this: 8 players alive, 3 scum, 5 townies, you are one of them. Town cannot lynch scum. Scum have won by this point.
So even if you are telling the truth, you are still useful to get rid off, anf lyncing will be the only way, as you have such an anti-town role. And, we might get scum.
You have stated "we might get scum" and much later that scum would come out and claim voteless before town would.Xtoxm wrote: The point is, that his presence moves the day we reach lylo forward by an entire day. So there is absolutley nothing lost in lynching him, and a very high potential gain (scum day one), and I found his claiming the role suspicious, because a voteless shouldn't want to get his role out there, however a scum with that role, or even that fakeclaim, WOULD want to.
The phrase we might get scum seems like an after thought. From my point of veiw, it looked like you were attacking LF for being an unhelpful role before you were attacking him for being scum.
The other concern I have is that you directed your focus solely on him. Did you think anyone else was suspicious at the time?
Xtoxm wrote: Well, i'm just really getting the feel that she's scum.
Comments like these seem like cop-outs to me. I want to know the meaning behind them. Is your case mostly just something general?Xtoxm wrote: On your second point, it's only one small thing rather consistent scummieness, that gives someone away. I've already said this already.
Just for the record, and I don't think you're thinking this, but I have no opinion one way or the other about your name claim.
UnvoteI think I've lost my head for a moment. I want to take some time to think, this game is confusing me. I don't see it necessary to lynch the lover pair right now.
Xtoxm, is there anything else about reborn that you think makes him suspicious?-
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Actually, could you do me a favor and rewrite the quote including any omitted words? I think it may have a different meaning than I thought it did, and it would affect the answer to your question:Xtoxm wrote: I missed the word "sometimes" from what you quoted off me.
Xtoxm wrote:What do you mean when you say case being something general? I don't really understand.-
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Are you saying sometimes it's one small thing rather "than" consistent scuminess?-
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Simulpost FTW.
There we go!
Okay. Now that you've said that, I'll retract my question about general scumminess.
oh wow, I missed KMD's post.
I nominate KMD to get reborn's device.
KMD: would I be correct in stating that you're of the opinion that one of the lovers is scum, but it's not a good idea to deal with them right now? I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I noticed you found them suspicious, but did not place a vote down.
Setup reasons are meta reasons so I'm not big on them, but I will admit that they can help us decipher the odds of our particular lover pair to contain scum. However, I think we should keep them off the table for day 1, especially when we know very little of our setup.-
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I'm currently of the mind that lynching the lovers is a bad day 1 play no matter what WIFOM arguments arise. I'm really only interested in killing the lovers if I'm convinced that one of them is scum.
I'm not sure yet exactly what to think about reborn, clearly I've had my suspicions of him in the past, and since his inventor claim comes under interesting circumstances, I want to take a closer look at that and see what I can figure out.-
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I forgot to mention the part where I'm exhausted from driving for hours and moving in, and after some sleep I'll probably be more helpful.
But my access might not be so great in the next few days as I'm settling into school again.-
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Reborn's claim was pretty much what suggested to me he was town. If there's doubt on the validity of the claim, then I'm back to my previous suspicions. It seems a little strange to me. It sounds like he's covering up for his mistake.
I am not opposed to a Reborn lynch, considering his past actions and his current suspicion, and I'd rather have that than nothing.Vote: Reborn
I'm a little wary of Thinktank at the moment. Something about him is bugging me.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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His tunnelvision in general, as it seems he does not have much to say about the game other than what he is currently doing.Xtoxm wrote:His tunnelvision on lynching the lovers even thought atleast one of us is garanteed to be town?
Yeah, that's been interesting.Kmd4390 wrote:Could it be the fact that he doesn't go out of the way to voice any opinions and even when he does, he barely backs it up at all?
Re: Reborn
The only answer I got to my suspicions was the claim, and if I can't believe that, then I don't have an answer to my suspicions.
Roleblocker? Do we know of the presence a scum roleblocker or did you pretty much just confess to being in a scum group with a roleblocker?reborn537 wrote: Just remember not to overlook the Lovers tomorrow, and take another look at all the claimed roles - I expect LF to be roleblocked now I'm getting lynched (obvious scum move to prevent me being confirmed with the dodgy claim was to RB me and then get me lynched tomorrow), so if he says that don't think that he's obv. scum.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Keep in mind that what he originally claimed was not a traditional inventor.LlamaFluff wrote: He claimed intention to use a deathray while speculating about what names for investigative and medical (if memory serves correctly) could be. I dont think someone would ever fakeclaim a role that they were not sure of how it worked, or even something as complex as an inventor (WIFOM I know).
Or the scum have powers, or there's 4 of them, or there's a mafia traitor in our midsts...all of these situations could warrant the use of scum lovers. As much as I think there's no way in hell a mod would put two lovers as scum, I could see it happen.Xtoxm wrote: And seriously, no. Scum lovers are not possible. Not in this situation. The scum are not going to be attached with a cripling attritube like that...In the least, everyone else would be VT's.
(And i'm saying that from a 3rd party opinion, excluding the knowledge I have that i'm town)
Out of curiosity, is there anyone who doesn't have a pro-town feel to you?Xtoxm wrote:I can't shake this town feel I get from him though.
QFT.elvis_knits wrote:I think xtoxm has multiple personalities.
Unvote, Vote Thinktank
I guess I'm fine waiting for a confirmation, but I'm not sold on reborn being town yet.
I really want to pizza someone...-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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I agree. We must not inhibit free speech light that. FIGHT THE OPPRESSION!Kmd4390 wrote:On a side note, I don't like the pizza ban. =(
Pizza: Mod
I can't believe we're actually having this conversation, but it's awesome.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
- Protection unnecessary
- Protection unnecessary
- Posts: 22132
- Joined: April 26, 2004
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: WA, USA