Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

This could have started like literally any other time in the last week or the next week and I'd be able to play out RVS but don't expect contributions from me for about 24 hours maybe

Ditto

Except he has actual reasons, I’m sure.

Also, hello, everybody. It’s been a while.

[Flavor Leaf]

@DoctorPepper - It’s been a long while. I’m Boonskiies, you missing the first scum game I ever won on site, The Case of the Missing Doctor Pepper, back in 2014.

[Flavor Leaf]

Modded*

[Flavor Leaf]

@DoctorPepper - It’s been a long while. I’m Boonskiies, you missing the first scum game I ever won on site, The Case of the Missing Doctor Pepper, back in 2014.

Oh yeaaaaah, the one I kinda had to let my co mod take over. :/

Well I see the Don Corleone award on you at the moment

It was a great game, one of my favorite end game moments. Brought the confirmed mason into 4p mylo, and No killed final night.

[Flavor Leaf]

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

[Flavor Leaf]

tris: i don't consider my own point to be particularly strong or worth pursuing with jjh not here to begin with, but i appreciate you engaging it in an honest way.

thank you. you seem like you'll be pleasant to work with even if you are actually mafia.

i like to question people to discover how they are thinking. that's more important than if they're right or wrong.

Ugh, I feel a tunnel coming, but tris is screaming scum.

@Tris - do you remember any games we've played together off the top of your head? I remember one, but I think I replaced out because I left site.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't mind disclosing it right away, my concern is that without a flip a good scum team can always use a neighborhood for a claim on why they both TR each other.

These things are easily verifiable. Though my concern for outing a neighborhood right away is that you either made yourselves a target for a NightKill or you'd create a lot of WIFOM as to why neither of you have been targetted for a Nightkill

^ I'm going to pocket you.

Oh, what, I meant to say that in the neighborhood.

But yeah, I hard agree with this. I dominate in neighborhoods as scum, and it's just really easy because it's such an intimate relationship with a couple other people, if you can just get on the same page, you can carry a game that way.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do agree that Tris is giving off town vibes.

Good, I'm not the only one to see it.

Also, you can tell that anti pirate bear and I have never played with each other.

[Flavor Leaf]

are you even supposed to be here? -.-

I’m Mars, Shiro is Venus and Auro is Pluto.

I'm glad this hydra is in this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

A fresh FL, welcome back! I have been way less active too and this is the first game played on BEF in about 5-6 months.

Yeah, I'm happy to see a mixture of fresh and old faces here. After I went through Animals U-pick, which honestly was probably one of my favorite scum games ever, I knew I had to take a break. I don't think anyone's rolled scum as much as me over the last 3 years, and it got draining.

I had modded games for nearly 2 years straight, and a lot of times multiple larges at once

Like, I got 3 scummies for 2019, so I became okay not having to be obsessive over Mafia. My film/writing career's is starting to move forward more too, but y'all know how important the game of Mafia is to me. You knew I'd be back.

I don't want to get overzealous, but I also finally have a nice computer now, so modding large themes on a computer instead of my phone, come on now. My next games hopefully will run nicely. I plan to spice the BooneyToonz games up in a cool way soon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ugh, I feel a tunnel coming, but tris is screaming scum.

I do agree that Tris is giving off town vibes.

Good, I'm not the only one to see it.

What happened between these posts? Are you implying tris is town with scummy posts? Or did your read switch from scum to town?

FTR, my first impression vibes lean towards town wrt tris.

OH WOW I READ THAT WRONG

I thought they said "Off-town" vibes, not giving off "Town Vibes".

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't want to get overzealous, but I also finally have a nice computer now, so modding large themes on a computer instead of my phone, come on now. My next games hopefully will run nicely. I plan to spice the BooneyToonz games up in a cool way soon.

What?!?! You modded your BT games on a phone? Even LNT? I can barely copy/paste on a phone.

Yeah, I didn't have access to a solid working computer for so long.

That's why vote counts weren't like the most common thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Disney Mafia or Classic Lit Mafia should be coming soon.

also, side note, and mainly because I feel like being slightly antagonistic to evoke some emotion,

pookey the Magical anti pirate Pear, are you going to be one of those players who notice me taking natural control of a game just by talking and nonstop tunnel me all game? It's fine if you are, just trying to see who you are as a player. I'm getting a good feel already.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noted.

[Flavor Leaf]

tris: i don't consider my own point to be particularly strong or worth pursuing with jjh not here to begin with, but i appreciate you engaging it in an honest way.

thank you. you seem like you'll be pleasant to work with even if you are actually mafia.

i like to question people to discover how they are thinking. that's more important than if they're right or wrong.

Ugh, I feel a tunnel coming, but tris is screaming scum.

@Tris - do you remember any games we've played together off the top of your head? I remember one, but I think I replaced out because I left site.

I see what you dislike about this post, but I honestly think it's more personality-indicative than alignment-indicative. Tris strikes me as matter-of-fact and somewhat formal, the sort of person who's gonna make a bunch of posts that sound awkward and perpetually be on the brink of being pushed regardless of their alignment.

I townread the failure to recognize an RVS vote as a joke because I think the default wolf mindset is that RVS votes

are

jokes, and that wolves aren't gonna read super deep into RVS votes unless they're trying to force content - and the way it came up didn't read as forced, not in the moment.

Could be wrong, obviously, but still leaning v.

The way Hayasaka claimed is super super villagery. Strong v lean. The pure guilt over possibly having accidentally gladiated this early in the game... I don't think she offers to self-vote there as a wolf. Easy call.

I liked D&D's one post for "this feels like a real thought" reasons. Thin v read there.

Don't necessarily think anyone else has done anything super alignment indicative?

Flavor, I get the impression that you're generally considered a good wolf. How does your village game compare?

I like to think my town game is stronger, and some people know when they're wolf they should kill me, and I like to WIFOM wolfies. However, I flip flop a lot usually, and my reads evolve, but the later the game goes, the more likelihood I can full solve a game. Town I'm a late game power house, wolf I'm a early-mid game power house.

[Flavor Leaf]

tris: i don't consider my own point to be particularly strong or worth pursuing with jjh not here to begin with, but i appreciate you engaging it in an honest way.

thank you. you seem like you'll be pleasant to work with even if you are actually mafia.

i like to question people to discover how they are thinking. that's more important than if they're right or wrong.

Ugh, I feel a tunnel coming, but tris is screaming scum.

@Tris - do you remember any games we've played together off the top of your head? I remember one, but I think I replaced out because I left site.

I see what you dislike about this post, but I honestly think it's more personality-indicative than alignment-indicative. Tris strikes me as matter-of-fact and somewhat formal, the sort of person who's gonna make a bunch of posts that sound awkward and perpetually be on the brink of being pushed regardless of their alignment.

I townread the failure to recognize an RVS vote as a joke because I think the default wolf mindset is that RVS votes

are

jokes, and that wolves aren't gonna read super deep into RVS votes unless they're trying to force content - and the way it came up didn't read as forced, not in the moment.

Could be wrong, obviously, but still leaning v.

The way Hayasaka claimed is super super villagery. Strong v lean. The pure guilt over possibly having accidentally gladiated this early in the game... I don't think she offers to self-vote there as a wolf. Easy call.

I liked D&D's one post for "this feels like a real thought" reasons. Thin v read there.

Don't necessarily think anyone else has done anything super alignment indicative?

Flavor, I get the impression that you're generally considered a good wolf. How does your village game compare?

I like to think my town game is stronger, and some people know when they're wolf they should kill me, and I like to WIFOM wolfies. However, I flip flop a lot usually, and my reads evolve, but the later the game goes, the more likelihood I can full solve a game. Town I'm a late game power house, wolf I'm a early-mid game power house.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I understand why people would town read tris, at least after where I was in my catchup when I made that post which is why I wasn't going to bring it up quite yet. The main point from my initial post regarding Tris was the timing of whoever said they were townie vibes, because that came before I started to be able to see some town sides in Tris, but then we got positioned onto tris moreso than my actual questioning of this

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

The post was actually me pushing something off about Ampharos, not Tris.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fooled you all! Y’all thought I was gone, but jokes on you, I have terrible insomnia.

[Flavor Leaf]

i've pretty much accepted that i'm always going to scumread FL as a default, and i acknowledge that as unearned, so i'll pretend i think he's town. that's mafia, right?

all of the tris townreads felt voiced around the same time, to me. tris was also my first TR this game, though i don't remember if i said so. is the timing of Ampharos' read so strange when it came right after its trigger?

To be fair, people are definitely looking too deep into it. I was essentially just troll posting a catch-up with surface level thoughts to cause some discussion.

I didn’t even really push anyone, getting a feel for the gamestate.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, right. I read it, then started thinking about myself again when I started posting

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, I don’t remember anymore. That was last night. I’ve moved on.

I just thought it was weird because at the time, I thought the exact opposite, but my reasonings were also based on their comments towards me, so I could see this all just being a bias

[Flavor Leaf]

it's because he's a bad guy

I’m one bad mamma jamma, but I’m not a wolf.

[Flavor Leaf]

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

How much has the boon dictionary evolved/mutated while I was away?

I've been gone. I haven't been on site really for months.This is my first game back, I think since like April ish. maybe earlier, my sense of time is way off.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor

, why did you want to know what i remembered about previous games?

Mainly cuz I don't remember the social dynamic aspects of it all.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm writing a Playing As Mafia guide right now; it's gonna be trash, be prepared.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma Emerald could be setting up themselves up in a hierarchy which could help them get more clout within the game, which is strong for either alignment.

I understand the newer comment from Gamma, and Ampharos' response comes across as NewerTown who's played games, but never been truly challenged even if they don't know it, or Scum who got offended by what Gamma said.

[Flavor Leaf]

Specifically strong for Gamma's self positioning is what I meant by either alignment. I don't have a read for it one way or another.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Ampharos - I feel you have a rather strong read on me based on your description. It's just not a read based on my alignment, which makes sense. I think a lot of people have that same kind of mindset towards me in most games I play, which actually helps me see you as townier, and I kind of do the same thing on a larger scale if that makes sense. It's Day 1, I'm pretty reserved with my votes unless I want to make some noise, and I kind of have a keep my cards to my chest mentality, and then I pounce. I also have a tendency to flip flop on reads, which I don't see as backtracking, I see it as the reads evolving. I feel like you have the correct sort of idea in regards to my slot at this time, a lot of commentary I do, especially early, is extremely helpful for me later in the game because it tracks certain things I noticed and wanted to remember. It also helps see my thought process when I eventually do start piecing things together to help present cases.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma Emerald could be setting up themselves up in a hierarchy which could help them get more clout within the game, which is strong for either alignment.

I understand the newer comment from Gamma, and Ampharos' response comes across as NewerTown who's played games, but never been truly challenged even if they don't know it, or Scum who got offended by what Gamma said.

Uh what?
I think you’re interpreting my play as way more intelligent than it actually is rn, I’m kinda in don’t-give-a-damn mode when it comes to level of play

It could be subconscious, but yee, I feel that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Finished my mafia guide, who's ready and wants these hands

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm looking to pounce

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like years since I've thrown hands, someone give me the works. I'm ready to verbally 1 on 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like years since I've thrown hands, someone give me the works. I'm ready to verbally 1 on 1.

You said a 1 on 1?
Suuuuup

-Pluto

No, I don't fight you until later after I go after you and you just push me as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oatmeal's good if you get the right ones. I put banana, blackberries, and strawberries in mine with some cinnamon and almond milk.

[Flavor Leaf]

Everyone's playing it real safe, and nobody has reasons for votes. I've been trying to force someone to come after me in a malicious way, if only to see how the people would react, but nothing really stood out without it having to be incredibly forced.

I'm trying, even if it might not look it from my posts

[Flavor Leaf]

FL, what do you aim to achieve by asking for a 1V1? Currently it looks like you're asking someone to push you so you can protest your innocence and talk about yourself more

I don't need anyone to push me for that, I can do that on my own.

I'm just trying to make something happen. Nobody's done anything for me to really see them as either way yet. I've said my thoughts on the stuff that I wanted to remember. Even if I need to get the smoke for a bit, I'm willing to, if only to see what actions get taken.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was also half joking, but specifically only half.

[Flavor Leaf]

Right but asking people to push you isn't going to create content or even particularly encourage it

Those inclined to make a push on someone at this stage will just do it

I would disagree considering it has already helped in a really strong way.

[Flavor Leaf]

It worked and got my first town read from it.

It also created a direct line of game related discussion through the two of us, which will be a relevant topic of discussion that people will analyze.

[Flavor Leaf]

So you haven't got townreads on anyone else in the game thus far?

Not in a way where I wouldn't be surprised if I was just wrong.

I naturally got some town leans from Gamma, but by no means am I ready to make that call based on the little bits I discussed.

[Flavor Leaf]

It wasn't powerful enough. Not a strong enough action, unlike this one.

[Flavor Leaf]

and obviously me of course, right

[Flavor Leaf]

jjh....come on. ;P

[Flavor Leaf]

why does having a large history with social games and sound logic on an outside source come off as townie to you?

[Flavor Leaf]

who are the neighbors?

[Flavor Leaf]

Trying way too hard with that positioning comment to try to find a reason to scum read me

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, if Gamma’s not your top scum read, why did you vote there?

[Flavor Leaf]

Jjh, gamma, Ampharos, Venus is my town block right now

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like there’s some wolves in the people who are slightly trying to push me but not trying to be the first one to do it.

For what it’s worth, I actually don’t count Pooky in this list, and I think he’s probably town trolling, however he was tryna flex so I’m not as comfortable calling that town yet, in the off chance he’s a mega red.

Ampharos, did something similar, but I don’t know. It felt townier when Ampharos did it because they almost had an “Uhm, excuse me...” kind of calm vibe about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

hello pot,

Thanks for reminding me

[Flavor Leaf]

.... he is.... in my top tier.... of scumreads....

Yeah, but it’s almost coming across like tactical positioning, almost to act like you have some sort of pressure somewhere to make it seem like you’re doing something.

Gamma was a third scum read, Venus was your first. Why wasn’t your vote on Venus, or at least on me? You actively made the choice to go to Gamma over the other 2 higher for a reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you're scumreading me for questioning posts that are definitely questionable, then just come out and say it.

- Daenerys

Why are you so quick to jump to conclusions?

I’m simply questioning what I would like to understand.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re on that list of people who aren’t fully red pushing me, I think it’s fair of me to question you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, so Gamma is a top red read, not a 3rd. Non ordered tiers.

Just making sure. There was potential for you to go along with them being ranked, and I probably would have pushed harder.

But see how I drop the point?

Don’t feel like having the circular conversation, and now I have time to think about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re on that list of people who aren’t fully red pushing me, I think it’s fair of me to question you.

Okay, then ask me questions instead of being like "ooh I feel like there's wolves in some

unnamed

people."

You still haven't actually responded to my questions, btw.

- Daenerys

Eh, I wasn’t really thinking about who was on if. More I just knew there were multiple. It also helps because people like to overreact to that kind of thing, similar to yourself, and emotion is nice to read.

I actually have begun to see a mindset that could be coming from town, so it did help in reads already.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re on that list of people who aren’t fully red pushing me, I think it’s fair of me to question you.

Okay, then ask me questions instead of being like "ooh I feel like there's wolves in some

unnamed

people."

You still haven't actually responded to my questions, btw.

- Daenerys

To be fair, I probably haven’t read the questions, and skimmed the posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL

Also, I understand why people would town read tris, at least after where I was in my catchup when I made that post which is why I wasn't going to bring it up quite yet. The main point from my initial post regarding Tris was the timing of whoever said they were townie vibes, because that came before I started to be able to see some town sides in Tris, but then we got positioned onto tris moreso than my actual questioning of this

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

The post was actually me pushing something off about Ampharos, not Tris.

when you were questioned on your tris read, you said it was really an ampharos read, but in 121 you said that tris "screamed" scum. Why would you say that directly after 120 if you weren't using 120 to develop your tris read? What else in tris's ISO, then, were you calling scummy?

It feels like FL is like weirdly positioning himself around both ampharos and tris with 120/121

- Daenerys

Oh, this. I remember now. I did respond to it, i just didn’t answer it in a way you liked.

Trying too hard to look for things that just aren’t there.

And yo, that was days ago and early, I don’t remember. I’m way past that now, and frankly, I just did it. There wasn’t really that much of a reason to any of it more than I’ve said back then.

Just simply how I felt in the moment,simple as that. didn’t really care to go super deep since it was so early in the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL if I hypothetically had to gladiate in the next 6 hours and not 3 days what would you suggest I do?
Catching up now I know I missed a lot a busy few days.

And if you don’t do it within that time period, it goes away?

[Flavor Leaf]

If I had to, I would go Pooky, but I’m biased because he’s going against me in a way where if he’s town, he’s gonna make it so I have a hard time solving correctly, and if he’s scum, he’ll get to coast through the game probably. Also, selfishly, if I had that ability, I would want to gladiate someone who I knew would get killed over me, because if you Gladiate someone and you end up being the kill, I don’t know if it’s really worth it, if that makes sense.

Use it in a way you think will help you solve the game if you are town, and will help you disrupt the game and give your team momentum if you’re red.

I’m trying to be unbiased

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, this. I remember now. I did respond to it, i just didn’t answer it in a way you liked.

Trying too hard to look for things that just aren’t there.

And yo, that was days ago and early, I don’t remember. I’m way past that now, and frankly, I just did it. There wasn’t really that much of a reason to any of it more than I’ve said back then.

Just simply how I felt in the moment,simple as that. didn’t really care to go super deep since it was so early in the game.

I’m trying to understand things I don’t understand.

Can you answer what about tris’ ISO “screamed” scum to you at that point in the game?

- Daenerys

The question seems forced because that was one of the first things I talked about regarding that post.

It felt like they were trying to set game narrative up. I remember because I brought up Gamefic earlier in this game, then Gamma Emerald came and asked how much the lexicon of terms I’ve made has grown since they’ve been gone.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL if I hypothetically had to gladiate in the next 6 hours and not 3 days what would you suggest I do?
Catching up now I know I missed a lot a busy few days.

And if you don’t do it within that time period, it goes away?

I lose something that isn't the gladiate that I am not willing to lose.

Dang, well, do what you gotta go.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why?

It was Tris’ post that screamed red to me, but I didn’t red read her because of it. Ampharos has an exact opposite read in such an early part of the game, which I made sure to note.

Ampharos has since been town reading by me.

I’m not sure if you’re purposefully not understanding, because I’m pretty sure this has been out there in some form if you check and look

[Flavor Leaf]

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

It’s gotten exaggerated for sure, but I definitely didn’t like the tris posting to my early posts, then i brought up by talking about Ampharos.

I think people are focusing too much on this tris thing. I literally wasn’t even gonna bring it up based solely on tris’ posts, and I don’t even have tris as a scum read right now

[Flavor Leaf]

I have plenty of darkness, this is true, but it’s not in an informed minority type of way.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL I don’t understand how you can say someone’s posts scream scum but not scumread them. Can you explain what your read on tris is and why?

- Daenerys

Why?

Just because someone comes across as scummy doesn’t make them scum, just like someone coming across as town, doesn’t make them town.

If anything, Mafia usually acts townier than town does, and on something that early in the game that you’re choosing to create into a much bigger deal than is seems forced. If you happen to be town, then it is not forced, but even though with you doing something scummy, doesn’t mean I think you are scum.


Especially early game.

[Flavor Leaf]

so you are a serial killer?

That’s still informed minority, just not group scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I guarantee you, if I were Red here, you wouldn’t

[Flavor Leaf]

When it makes sense that they’re more likely town or mafia.

I have plenty of reads and analysis, I’ve even been posting that’s just because I’m not going this guy scum this guy town on everything doesn’t mean I don’t have reads.

I look at the gamestate, why is this person being pushed as scummy, are they actually scum, or did scum take advantage of momentum somewhere, where did scum set up a role block.

I am a late game powerhouse, and will have hard analysis, and full solves, and my style early sets that up well because it stops me from getting tunneled early. Acting like you have strong reads allows scum to abuse said reads, so I throw in reads when I have them which helps more with NKA and to an extent, VCA. I put together the different actions that a player will do throughout the game, and some of them, hell most of them, can be scum leaning, but say they have one thing that makes them almost undeniably town, that almost makes all their scummy actions look townier which in retrospect you can look back and see what gamestate alterations happened at the time to catch scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s a reason the players who know me have brought up little things to my defense, I imagine they see some of the same things I am with the people questioning my playstyle. It’s extremely forced.

I’m actively playing the game, I have been stating analysis, and hell, I even stated town reads.

I just haven’t pushed scum reads majorly because I’m not confident with full sending.

When I push something, it will gain momentum. It just will, might be momentum against the push, but there will be action around it, and I’m not comfortable pushing something quite yet.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay I attempted to read that but comprehension is pretty low

I’m not, like, questioning lack of reads or actions on your part like you seem to be insinuating. I’m questioning the development of a read on a specific person - do you have a read on tris?

- Daenerys

Yeah, I do, it’s just not a town, Mafia, or neutral read.

[Flavor Leaf]

They made that initial post I didn’t like.

Multiple people went against it, interesting note.

2nd highest amount of posts in the game

And I didn’t hate the way they talked when we were talking back when.

That’s my read on tris.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am trying to figure FL out but to some degree, the Pooky read isn't the worst I just don't understand what FL is doing and it bothers me.
There are limited moments when I feel like he is trying to solve compared to him just talking to player because he can. He basically feels a lot more reactive then proactive with his solving this game and it's a yikes to me.

I scum read "who are the neighbors" in particular. Feels like one of those manufactured posts to get the super-easy "but that would have been brought up in the scum PT" read. It was a page 1 claim brought up on many pages afterward.

just my playstyle. I feel I'm bringing a lot of discussion to the table, to be honest, if only because people will talk about me. That's an invisible effect I have on the game.

The second part, meh, I understand that. I just don't pay attention a lot of times. I could find instances in this, or you could ask players who know me like Auro/nancy/gamma, if you even need that to be further developed

[Flavor Leaf]

damn it, I'm gonna get so pocketed by Tris. I feel it now.

[Flavor Leaf]

hello flavor leaf. whatever your alignment, i expect much of the game to revolve around you.

Ughhh...does this mean this was a pocket attempt on me? Like, I'm a performer, it's not hard to see I like the attention. I feel like this kind of mindset could explain why it felt off to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

ugh. i'm gonna be light SRing Ampharos for the whole game, partly in reaction to the townreads she's accruing. what makes this difficult is she's working with a different site culture than what i'm used to. and her play looks high-level, which isn't AI but does always succeed in pressing the paranoia button.
i agree with her takes, i think. to echo her thoughts on Flavor Leaf, i need to see her really push something.

Interesting. Keeping my eye on both that stated really need to see them push. This kinda makes me second guess my Amph. I wasn’t seeing it as high level looking play, not bad or anything, but this means Ampharos could be coming across completely different to some people, and that may be by design.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, I’m curious.

@Kaname - VOTE: 1Ampharos?

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m cool with the dnd hydra.

If they’re red, they’re absolutely not gonna be able to deep wolf this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Which makes me think they’re green gonna get misexecuted.

[Flavor Leaf]

BEF, you’re kinda in the lean scum-neutral area for me if only because I’m not town reading you, which makes me think there’s an issue there, so it’s less than neutral. The dnd vote didn’t help.

[Flavor Leaf]

I almost feel like you saw the posts between my slot and their slot earlier, and while I was posting and around, you decided to push there and get momentum from me swinging that way.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, I’m going back and looking at BEF’s posts and it comes off as super red.

I’ve seen BEF town games a lot, i feel like I should be able to town read you

[Flavor Leaf]

I almost feel like you saw the posts between my slot and their slot earlier, and while I was posting and around, you decided to push there and get momentum from me swinging that way.

Could this post be deciphered to suggest that DnD and I are of different alignments?

Hmm, i guess it could be.

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys could still be green green, but yeah, i don’t think you guys at red red

[Flavor Leaf]

I have a surprise.

VOTE: 2 Pooky

[Flavor Leaf]

you wanna get day-viged?

Trust me, this is a good thing, boo

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, actually. Back to square one.

UNVOTE: 1 Ampharos
UNVOTE: 2 Pooky

[Flavor Leaf]

I have a surprise.

VOTE: 2 Pooky

this is far less exciting and appeals to my ego much less than your Ampharos vote.

pedit: ah, so that's how it is.

I was causing some intrigue. I’d still go Ampharos if ya think we got something.

[Flavor Leaf]

DandD and Gamma Emerald wagons both at 3 then?

Gamma wagon dissipating, that’s interesting.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was causing some intrigue. I’d still go Ampharos if ya think we got something.

how much is my opinion worth to you?

I don’t know. About the same as the other people I don’t have a precise read on yet.

I’d rather town read you than paranoia null read you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I find the way contemporary mafia is played with "reads" and "solves" to be very lol

can we just kill the bad guys

Solves are fine later in the game when the equation is actually solvable.

[Flavor Leaf]

Did somebody say L-1?

VOTE: 1: DnD
VOTE: 2: Ampharos

[Flavor Leaf]

Tris and Venus/Mars/Pluto come across as the worst on the wagon, i wanna say irregardless of what DnD flips.

DrP also looks wolfy.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Pooky's pretty clearly town, as is Hayasaka. Gamma is Wolfy if DnD is town, but townie if DnD is wolf.

Had no clue Not Mafia was in this game.

Kaname Date is generally townie, but there's some paranoia I have there, but I wanna go ahead and call them town.

BEF is kind of the same as Gamma. If DnD is town, Gamma vs BEF probably should be up for wagon tomorrow.

Jjh, I don't know. I town read them. They are in a good spot to coast if they are Red, though. If they are Red, theyre positioned as the most dangerous on their team for sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Pooky's pretty clearly town, as is Hayasaka. Gamma is Wolfy if DnD is town, but townie if DnD is wolf.

Had no clue Not Mafia was in this game.

Kaname Date is generally townie, but there's some paranoia I have there, but I wanna go ahead and call them town.

BEF is kind of the same as Gamma. If DnD is town, Gamma vs BEF probably should be up for wagon tomorrow.

Jjh, I don't know. I town read them. They are in a good spot to coast if they are Red, though. If they are Red, theyre positioned as the most dangerous on their team for sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

I always hammer if someone puts to L-1 faster than expected. It's a good time to go to day 2 anyways, and DnD wasn't doing much for me, so I thought it was good.

I'm not jester.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were Jester, I'd be playing scummier not jester-like. One of the games I've created literally uses a jester mechanic as well, so i know how to play jester and have been annoyed I havent gotten to roll it on site ever.

[Flavor Leaf]

You're the one who kept bringing up the jester.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why do you think there's even a jester in this game? That's leaving possibilities in the setup open for people to take advantage of.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not Mafia wins more scum games than you want him to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, he could be scum, but yeah, it's NAI. I consistently read him as town when he is scum (not recently, but over the years, it's happened multiple times, but im not exactly sure on what games, or id link some)

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: 2 DnD

On the off chance that it’s still L-1.

However, if I did hammer, my second vote wouldn’t go through on the Vote count because hammer would have happened before, I guess. :shrug:

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, complete lack of commenting on tris slot, who I feel was the momentum swing vote onto DND.

[Flavor Leaf]

It looks like WIFOM for us to search through later if they’re scum rather than anything that’s gonna help us find scum if they’re town.

They basically went

“Scum is on our wagon.” Which is fine in its own right.

[Flavor Leaf]

Attacking Pooky and I is super weak also.

VMP and Tris had far worse votes than us, and I plan to look into that more if I’m not killed.

Worst case scenario is an all town wagon on a townie, but then players like DrP and N_M will be coming into play.

[Flavor Leaf]

The lack of defense is the biggest thing.

A reason I was happy to end the day when I did. Information.

@Hayasaka - why are you saying it’s a bad kill? I personally believe that, even if they’re town, that it was a pretty good kill. I mentioned them being off earlier, a lot of people were scum reading them, and them posting didn’t really help too much. If we we’re going to kill somebody off, I feel that was a rather good Day 1 target.

I think you’ve been townie, but that’s what’s worrying me about you right now, especially if DnD flips town. You would be coming off as TMI’ing almost.

You’re also not explaining why it was bad, rather than just stating it, which is subconscious Gamefic.

[Flavor Leaf]

What do you mean don’t get a lot on a town flip? They’ve had conversations with multiple people in this game. On top of being a slot that was being off putting, I disagree hard that this wasn’t a solid day 1 kill, even if they flip town.

[Flavor Leaf]

You brought up NM as a counter? Absolutely not. That gives nothing on a town flip

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, GG, I win by killing DnD.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don't see what you think I am not arguing against?
When the entire premise behind this wagon is you don't really have much of one.

Sailors - They called me scum + a single game of meta
Gamma - Complaining his vote was never counted.
Tris - I scum read the lynch bait.
Pooky - I'll sheep Tris
Flavor Leaf - This isn't a bad lynch imo

Keep in mind this isn't an attempt at diving anyones cases. This is just my memory of why people are voting them.
But reading this the only acceptable vote is Pooky's and Tris' because from an isolated standpoint I can see why they wouldn't hand wave a lot of Cakez posting the same way I am doing.

I do still SR D&D
I'm just being petty about not voting anything else until I get treated properly by the mod

I reread and it looks like someone in this game could have taken your vote away, which could raise their scum level, I guess.

That’s why I decided to use my second vote to make sure this went through.

[Flavor Leaf]

Should I say?

Idk. For what it’s worth, if I’m correct about that assumption, I do town read the player with the knowledge of that being something that happened.

If it didn’t happen, I’m probably lean town null on the player

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, but if I say it with enough conviction, and explain in bits and pieces later, it does the same thing

I’m not scum pushing you for TMI’ing. That is the difference. I’m bringing it up as a thing to remember to help supplement an eventual case on you, if that’s even necessary. A case was unnecessary, a reminder is good enough.

[Flavor Leaf]

already solving with them being town in my own world.

There’s your issue; it’s Day 1 yo.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do that too.

I think DnD vs Gamma was TvS, and I think Gamma is the town. Gamma being concerned about the missing vote is something, the only issue I might have with it is if they knew all along that their vote was missing, and thus overemphasized it. I’ve definitely taken my own vote away as scum before.

Idk if Gamma would do that, though, especially this early into the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Should I say?

Idk. For what it’s worth, if I’m correct about that assumption, I do town read the player with the knowledge of that being something that happened.

If it didn’t happen, I’m probably lean town null on the player

wait do you have an idea of who did it?

Oh, if it’s true, I know exactly who did it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t steal your vote, Gamma. I wouldn’t steal your vote, regardless of alignment, I’d want you with your vote

[Flavor Leaf]

Yo

[Flavor Leaf]

VMP, it was the timing of your votes in comparison to the momentum the wagon brought.

Pre flip, why is Tris ever a town read for voting where they did, VMP?


@Haya - I’ll do a search for them later. I started doing it as town way before i did as scum.
I have a hard tendency to derail wagons when they’re at L-1, as both alignments, to both alignments.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna look back at my 1v1 with DnD.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

Why?

It was Tris’ post that screamed red to me, but I didn’t red read her because of it. Ampharos has an exact opposite read in such an early part of the game, which I made sure to note.

Ampharos has since been town reading by me.

I’m not sure if you’re purposefully not understanding, because I’m pretty sure this has been out there in some form if you check and look

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

It’s gotten exaggerated for sure, but I definitely didn’t like the tris posting to my early posts, then i brought up by talking about Ampharos.

I think people are focusing too much on this tris thing. I literally wasn’t even gonna bring it up based solely on tris’ posts, and I don’t even have tris as a scum read right now

FL I don’t understand how you can say someone’s posts scream scum but not scumread them. Can you explain what your read on tris is and why?

- Daenerys

Why?

Just because someone comes across as scummy doesn’t make them scum, just like someone coming across as town, doesn’t make them town.

If anything, Mafia usually acts townier than town does, and on something that early in the game that you’re choosing to create into a much bigger deal than is seems forced. If you happen to be town, then it is not forced, but even though with you doing something scummy, doesn’t mean I think you are scum.


Especially early game.

Okay I attempted to read that but comprehension is pretty low

I’m not, like, questioning lack of reads or actions on your part like you seem to be insinuating. I’m questioning the development of a read on a specific person - do you have a read on tris?

- Daenerys

Yeah, I do, it’s just not a town, Mafia, or neutral read.

Yeah, went back to read my 1v1 with DnD, and even then I was constantly confused at what they were asking and saw that they were forcing their stuff. I knew something was off there. I’m gonna go and look for some associations.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, I do believe one of the scum is in DrPepper or Not Mafia. Strictly based on lack of posting and DnD seeming to be one of the slots trying to do something, to the point of forcing analysis.

Deep wolf is in Tris, VMP, Jjh, Ampharos, Kamane probably.

@VMP - dont take it the wrong way, please. I town read most of this list individually, but grand scheme of it all.

[Flavor Leaf]

BEF or Gamma could be pulling a pocket on me, but if that’s the case, I’m not going to be able to see it past my town reads. BEF’s posting on this page made me town read him further, that being said, he’s talking about me in ways that I like, which is the easiest way to get me to town read you, however, BEF knows me well enough to know this and such I know can take advantage of it.

That is my read on BEF. I like most everything he says, and generally want to see him as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

DnD was obsessed with knowing why FL had a SR on tris. So this intrigues me.

honestly in a vacuum this strikes me as more indicative of FL town than tris scum

which intrigues me

I thought about that but then... I know it's pure speculation but I don't think scum!FL would have hammered his partner like that. Because at that time even though I was for the DnD fade, I think it could have been derailed and I didn't get the feeling that DnD resigned to the fade before the hammer.

ScumMe would have successfully derailed that wagon without people even realizing I was the one to derail it.

Stop pocket, hot pocket.

[Flavor Leaf]

@VMP - I see what you’re talking about and that goes right in hand with Kamane being okay with momentum onto Ampharos, which I was also okay going, but it didn’t go anywhere.

I also do believe that if KD is scum, Ampharos is town.

[Flavor Leaf]

That being said, DrP is probably where I’d like to go this day.

A less active slot is good to go after that scum flip, I feel.

[Flavor Leaf]

Claim. You’re going down today. If you don’t have analysis, give us some more puzzle pieces, please

[Flavor Leaf]

Just because you’re MIA, and like, yeah, you’re like 100% going to end up the wagon.

If you’re town, just claim now, and we can potentially go Not Mafia

[Flavor Leaf]

Hmm...Not Mafia or one of Kamane/Ampharos would be where I’d say scum is if you are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hmm...Not Mafia or one of Kamane/Ampharos would be where I’d say scum is if you are town.

Tris could be here as well. Jjh, maybe, but they were the first one on DnD.

[Flavor Leaf]

What’s your night role?

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: 1 Ampharos
VOTE: 2 DoctorPepper

[Flavor Leaf]

FL - who am I venging?

Not Mafia - Lurker troll, possible scum
Ampharos - deep wolf possibility if Kamane isn’t scum
Kamane - deep wolf possibilty if Ampharos isn’t scum

Kamane has some weird associations in regards to DnD, but they explained themselves, but if they are scum, these are absolutely true associations caught

[Flavor Leaf]

So essentially, pick your shot. I kinda want to see how they react to you shooting them as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not to defend NM but I can't read him for shit. He played like this as both alignments in my past 2 games with him.

I don’t have a scum read on him, I have a null read on him, and I’ve lost way more times to scumNM than I’d like to admit.

Shoot Kamane/Ampharos then, if we even end up killing you here.

Hayasaka wants to use their Gladiate, though, so like...it does make sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I don’t really remember how he is as a player, but if he’s scum, he’s played with his posts well today.

However, I don’t think that it is impossible by any means for him to still be scum, but I’m not like sold on going him, but the vengeful townie claim did exactly what it was supposed to do if he is scum.

I can see scum be a little more hesitant into letting DrP be killed today, so scum points for Kamane/Tris in that regards.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m kind of working to town read people still rather than scum read. I’m not going to be able to definitively say anyone’s for sure scum here today. Nature of the day 1 scum kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, my way too early probably not correct solve was

One of DrP-Not Mafia as scum
One of Kamane-Ampharos as scum.

I’m not sold on it, but if I’m right, I’ll be super happy post game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I know everyone’s pushing a town read on me, but I kind of hate it. I feel like if I’m not correct with my solve (tris/Jjh are alternates) then I’m not going to be reliable later because I’m going to be getting blindsided by a pocket somewhere

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m tinfoil looking into a Kamane-Ampharos pairing

[Flavor Leaf]

maybe i missed it on a sleepy skim, but: FL, how did you arrive at a "one in KD/Amy" world?

This has been here since Day 1

It’s the way Kamane tried to push you and i helped and nothing happened

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m tinfoil looking into a Kamane-Ampharos pairing

is it

that

tinfoil, FL?

pedit: apparently my interactions with D&D were bad. i can sort of see it from the outsider's perspective, but i trust FL about as far as i could throw him. i don't like his outward paranoia about being wrong here.
the argument i'm scum with D&D i think ignores that i should have been prepared for that scumflip.

A little bit.

I don’t think anyone’s paired you two up. I’ve been separating you guys most of the game, without thinking about it

Also, i don’t have that much paranoia, it’s more just i don’t have enough to fully think you’re 100% scum or vice versa.

BEF is where my paranoia lies

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m always performing

[Flavor Leaf]

Any chance DrP is a jester?

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I don’t really remember how he is as a player, but if he’s scum, he’s played with his posts well today.

However, I don’t think that it is impossible by any means for him to still be scum, but I’m not like sold on going him, but the vengeful townie claim did exactly what it was supposed to do if he is scum.

I can see scum be a little more hesitant into letting DrP be killed today, so scum points for Kamane/Tris in that regards.

You keep pushing KD, why is that?

Cuz i think they have a chance at being scum moreso than the others.

I feel like I’ve answered this multiple times, between his and ampharo

[Flavor Leaf]

Any chance DrP is a jester?

Why do you think this?

~M

Pooky got me thinking about possibility of a jester in this game, and Gamma said they are also Devil, which is a flipped flavor. Full disclosure, I am the Fool, and I'm not jester, so before I was thinking it wasn't possible. What if DrP is vengeful townie claiming to win here. I doubt it will end game, but seems sus.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just game state and the wagon momentum. I feel like townAmpharous should have gotten more momentum on them, which could explain why DnD didn’t have defense. One of the lurkers, and the one that couldn’t get steam.

Ampharos was absent during the DnD wagon as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

Really something’s just kind of off to me.

I feel like I should have been able to start a wagon on Ampharos, but instead, the momentum shifted to DnD, and that’s just this kind of weird dynamic that I’m not sure how to think about.

So Kamane/Ampharos are my leading scum candidates, however I don’t think they’re scum together, but it’s not impossible

They’ve both done townie things as well.

This also leads me to believe Jjh could be a partner of theirs based on Jjh’s possible setup towards me earlier with that one post he made

[Flavor Leaf]

Kamane because them and I were voting Ampharos, and Kamane also disappeared during DnD momentum

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t necessarily think they disappeared on purpose, it just happened while they weren’t around

[Flavor Leaf]

you know what? proud of FL for getting a good night's sleep for once

think imma just check back in tomorrow

Yeah, i fell asleep at 9pm, waking up at 4am, so at least 7 hours tonight!

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we conftown Amp after those series of posts? I tried to find something scummy and came up with zilch.

Eh, i got some scum vibes from it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

do it no balls

i have no idea

yes. unless you gladiate a player i don't townread. then it's good play.

the only offwagon i confidently TR is Hayasaka. let me see if i can remember what my other reads this game actually are.

Hmm, I guess I missed those.

@Amy, @KD , why are you encouraging gladiate over a regular execution? I agree with Tris that it’s suboptimal unless you have a wagon with excessive resistance and yeah, don’t like either’s reaction to the gladiate.

~M

i'm only convinced he's town because elimming him is the correct play. assuming scum is aware of that, claiming vengeful is just a shortcut to Pepper being eliminated.

if i were to say the claim makes him town and therefore we should elim someone else, then the claim no longer makes him town because i've just given reason for scum to make the claim.

So, you think we should either execute/Hya gladiate Pepper and have him venge NM/Amy/jjh, correct?

I wouldn’t support jjh. Not opposed to NM. If Amy flips scum, than Tris is probably spewed town from that, since extremely unlikely to have an SvS hood and obviously vice-versa.

@Amy, can we get a current readslist please?

And what is your current read on Tris?

~M

@Amy, do you have any other games - preferably both a towngame and a scumgame I could look at?

~M

@KD, @Ampharos, why isn’t it concerning either of you that your strongest scumread is voting identically to you?

@Amy, any particular reasons you continue to ignore every single question I keep asking you?

~M

@Amy

~M

One more question @Amy, which you will probably continue to ignore and think I probably won’t notice is:

Why do you have absolutely no reaction whatsoever to either Tris voting you or FL sr you?

~M

tris's vote i didn't notice

FL's suspicion i'm aware of and am still parsing. probably going to require some backreading to form a coherent thought on it. still largely trying to get a feel for FL as a person/player so i can calibrate my "how would i expect him to behave as town" sensors

mm

gamma's probably town for that flavorclaim, actually

and i honestly think FL may be town too?

so where am i getting bamboozled

I’m a null Poe read, but then i get towned which makes sense considering I’m pushing there.

I also don’t like that in conjunction Not Mafia is the vengekill choice, but they scum read KD, not necessarily NM.

I feel like they were trying to get town read with that cluster of posts, and you know, town a,Pharos needed to do that too, so I can see it.

But it’s definitely not at the level where I’m gonna straight up call them town. I’d prefer KD venge to an Amy venge right now however

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is NM a scum read and not a null lurker?

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we conftown Amp after those series of posts? I tried to find something scummy and came up with zilch.

Eh, i got some scum vibes from it.

:/

Gamma, don't just do a smiley to a singular post that is more buzzworthy when I clearly explained my thoughts on it right after.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

do it no balls

i have no idea

yes. unless you gladiate a player i don't townread. then it's good play.

the only offwagon i confidently TR is Hayasaka. let me see if i can remember what my other reads this game actually are.

Hmm, I guess I missed those.

@Amy, @KD , why are you encouraging gladiate over a regular execution? I agree with Tris that it’s suboptimal unless you have a wagon with excessive resistance and yeah, don’t like either’s reaction to the gladiate.

~M

i'm only convinced he's town because elimming him is the correct play. assuming scum is aware of that, claiming vengeful is just a shortcut to Pepper being eliminated.

if i were to say the claim makes him town and therefore we should elim someone else, then the claim no longer makes him town because i've just given reason for scum to make the claim.

So, you think we should either execute/Hya gladiate Pepper and have him venge NM/Amy/jjh, correct?

I wouldn’t support jjh. Not opposed to NM. If Amy flips scum, than Tris is probably spewed town from that, since extremely unlikely to have an SvS hood and obviously vice-versa.

@Amy, can we get a current readslist please?

And what is your current read on Tris?

~M

@Amy, do you have any other games - preferably both a towngame and a scumgame I could look at?

~M

@KD, @Ampharos, why isn’t it concerning either of you that your strongest scumread is voting identically to you?

@Amy, any particular reasons you continue to ignore every single question I keep asking you?

~M

@Amy

~M

One more question @Amy, which you will probably continue to ignore and think I probably won’t notice is:

Why do you have absolutely no reaction whatsoever to either Tris voting you or FL sr you?

~M

tris's vote i didn't notice

FL's suspicion i'm aware of and am still parsing. probably going to require some backreading to form a coherent thought on it. still largely trying to get a feel for FL as a person/player so i can calibrate my "how would i expect him to behave as town" sensors

mm

gamma's probably town for that flavorclaim, actually

and i honestly think FL may be town too?

so where am i getting bamboozled

I’m a null Poe read, but then i get towned which makes sense considering I’m pushing there.

I also don’t like that in conjunction Not Mafia is the vengekill choice, but they scum read KD, not necessarily NM.

I feel like they were trying to get town read with that cluster of posts, and you know, town a,Pharos needed to do that too, so I can see it.

But it’s definitely not at the level where I’m gonna straight up call them town. I’d prefer KD venge to an Amy venge right now however

I explained not even all the posts they made, which I could do more, I just got lazy. BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

[Flavor Leaf]

there are probably 3 wolves left

my PoE is effectively 4 people atm

this means i'm PROBABLY misclearing someone - presumably someone in that second tier, unless VMP are playing a very very strong wolfgame

if i'm not i'll gladly accept the inevitable postgame adoration and fawning but let's take it one step at a time

If you want me to go deeper, this post I didn't feel like bringing up because it's setup spec, but this is a 13 player game, with potential 3rd parties.

In no shape or form should someone feel there is effectively 3 wolves left. This is political and sets up a gamefic that there's possibly more scum than what there really is.

Whether or not, Ampharos did this on purpose is what we can discuss, but people were spouting and acting like that string of posts by Ampharos was townie, and I don't feel anybody but me actually read what they posted.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hayasaka
BrightEyedFish

Venus Mars and Pluto

DoctorPepper
Gamma Emerald
tris

Not Mafia
Jjh927

Kamane Date
Ampharos


Roughly where I'm at right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

you might be able to combine the DP and NM groups, but something about me doesn't like Jjh here, but i might be biased based on where he's stating his reads are at.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we conftown Amp after those series of posts? I tried to find something scummy and came up with zilch.

Eh, i got some scum vibes from it.

:/

Gamma, don't just do a smiley to a singular post that is more buzzworthy when I clearly explained my thoughts on it right after.

I just find hard to trust that your solving is genuine rn

convenient timing after Jjh posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

especially considering you should know that my scum game "solving" is far more genuine than my town solving is, if only because the style I choose to play as scum looks more like stereotypical solving than when I am town, and I really don't care if people see my solving as genuine or not. Post game, it will be proved to be completely genuine.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not confident you’re scum rn which probably means you’re Town, but I’d appreciate if you could maybe just do some ISO summaries of your current suspects, but don’t just point out things you dislike, call out whatever stands out good or bad on the slot

Frankly, I'm posting more for myself rather than for anyone else right now. I don't really care to look back at ISO's this game. I've read the game, and have been here to comment on most everything in real time, even if it's a little delayed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like yeah, I wanna work with people to see their solves, but nobody's really doing anything, so I'm gonna take it upon myself to post my reads. I'm not even confident in Ampharos as scum, I'm just leaning there more than anyone else. I don't have strong scum reads nor do I expect to this day phase. It just doesn't matter on that level yet. There are future day phases for that, and I'd rather get hit at for 2 reasons. 1: The less suspicion on me the more scum have to make it a point to kill me off. 2: If I do end up dying, you're seeing my at face value level thoughts, almost unfiltered, which I would hope would be following. I feel like people forget that I'm very capable of coming up with solves based on my scum performances.

I've been talking about scumAmpharos since mid Day 1, and even early Day 1 when Gamma vs Ampharos slightly happened, so I really don't understand that mindset.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't believe I've been staying quiet about my Ampharos read, I even went after Kaname Date for a little bit just to see if I could see things from a different perspective.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hard disagree.

10:3 easily

[Flavor Leaf]

9:4 means scum have over half the required amount of votes from Day 1 on any wagon, which is insanely damning.

Also, if you’re to assume I were scum double voter (i forgot what your read on me was, tbh, but I don’t think you were town reading me?)

That would mean if I was a scum double voter, scum would have 5 votes on Day 1 with 13 players.

In a 4 scum world, I should absolutely never be anything but a town read for someone. That’s like IC status.

This did get me thinking, though, and a double vote is strong, so depending on everyone else’s roles, I can’t necessarily count out the 4 scum possibility.

However, there was a weird meta a couple years back where there were 4 scum in 13p games, and it was just insanely rough.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, 4 scum and DnD still goes down Day 1?

I like that you brought up your mindset regarding that there, though. Makes me care a less about the original post being an issue

[Flavor Leaf]

13p role madness, if balanced well, should almost always be in the ballpark of 9 town 4 nontown, imo; you can make an argument that i should have specified "nontown" to avoid counting out the existence of 3rd parties but like. whatever.

i can't even fathom what possible benefit scum!me could get from trying to OVERrepresent the number of wolves in the game, unless she were trying to widen the PoE - and i think the absolute dearth of true scumreads i have sort of disproves that line of thinking

if anything, i've seen wolves UNDERrepresent antitown numbers to breed complacency, but assuming the reverse is kinda nonsense when the entire rest of my play runs counter to that

Also, I’ve definitely done the over count the amount of wolves in a game.

Multiple benefits.

1: Allows the General gamestate to assume and look for teams that could be there in a higher quantity, messing with associations. This is especially powerful if 2 scum are down, and it’s presumed 4 scum when there are only 3.

2: Possibility for a disconnect which makes a player come off as less informed, and thus, townier. There’s a lot of different ways to do that. Unfortunately, I do this kind of thing a lot as town, which people say looks fake when really I’m just someone who smokes weed and reads the game, and derps out.

I could probably shout out more, but I’m lecturing

[Flavor Leaf]

You and KD were 2 high profiles off of the DnD wagon and absent during the momentum swing, so I feel like I shouldn’t have to explain why i scum read the pair individually

[Flavor Leaf]

Moreso than I have

[Flavor Leaf]

damn it Auro

[Flavor Leaf]

I hate it when you post exactly what I wanna hear.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oi, I thought Nancy was Venus, Auro was Mars, and Shiro was Pluto this whole time

[Flavor Leaf]

For what it’s worth, I hate it less when Nancy says exactly what I want to hear.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s kinda funny, though, while reading those posts, I was thinking “Wow, Auro and Nancy really have started to sound like each other. Auro’s posts feel just like Nancy’s.”

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, been digesting for a minute now, my BEF paranoia has completely went away if you noticed him at the top of my reads list. His seeing Ampharos as townie then going “yeah, it went away with 1053” kinda just screams town to me. Idk if it did when I first read it, but it’s what I’m thinking.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oi, I thought Nancy was Venus, Auro was Mars, and Shiro was Pluto this whole time

That’s pretty hilarious. Especially confusing my posting with Shiro and also considering that me and Shiro hydra’d in two of your games.

I thought it was you and Auro that were Venus and Mars for some reason. It’s been a bit, first game since like April/May.

[Flavor Leaf]

I knew at one point

[Flavor Leaf]

I already said earlier.

I’m always performing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all, if you think I’m any less talkative if we were to play in person, you’d be wrong! If anything, I talk more.

[Flavor Leaf]

But I still do have those quiet moments of sitting back and thinking, but in the midst of game time, let’s go

[Flavor Leaf]

I agree with the goes well with their playstyle on KD. If it wasn’t them, I’d scum read the slot for those few posts I questioned before alone.

Like while I think those were scummy, that’s why they’re on my low list, but they responded extremely well every time, even with their last post about understanding why i have the read on them, and it just seems like it would have to be some strong scum play to be that well with their response almost every time, so that’s why I’ve been pushing Ampharos over them. Gives more time for me to read someone I know decently well to hopefully correctly town read if they are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

Scum make jokes too

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, if NM and I were on a scum team together, good game, it was over before it started.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, if NM and I were on a scum team together, good game, it was over before it started.

Because he wins much more scum games than he should, as I stated earlier, but it’s still strats that brings the results.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tris/Jjh could be the team

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

i'm currently looking at a pool of {Amy, not_mafia, drP, and maybe jjh}

could Amy and not_mafia be together? amy has been pushing n_m, which seems dangerous at this point if they're mafia. maybe it is dr pepper. or i'm fooled somewhere else (or jjh)

NM isn’t doing anything to advance the game and therefore if he’s scum and higher than rand chance he is, I think whomever his buddy is if true would probably be bussing him here.

My main issue with NM venge isn’t that I tr him but it provides no info but I’m not opposed to it either.

I’m less sure on Amy because of her recent posts but I’m currently tr everyone else in the game more than her.

~M

the problem i have with that is that it would leave her having to go it alone for the rest of the game. and from a position where she's under scrutiny

Yes that is possible but it’s also possible for scum to want to bus their deadweight buddies if that is the case. I’ve seen more than a few games where scum has bussed their entire team. That’s the main problem with the NM slot, no player in the game looks connected to him in any way but nothing he’s doing is town indicative either.

~M

If you’re basing your reads strictly based off of associatives, no player in the game has any with NM but he’s not done anything townie, so how do you parse that?

~M

i'm not basing my reads strictly based on associatives. i'm just thinking about them a little bit.

it does actually bother me that no one is really pushing away from not mafia. actually maybe Flavor Leaf is doing that subtly. What if Flavor Leaf/Not Mafia? it could explain the bus the other day actually. because if Amy gladiates onto not_mafia, that's still a mafia dead, but that way he gets towncred.

I think scum!FL would be more likely to bus NM here. According to Auro in one of his recent scumgames he bussed his entire team, so him being reluctant on NM is probably town indicative. “Amy gladiating into NM”? How does FL get towncred here or am I missing something?

~M

Yeah, Mastina and I had crazy good synergy that game and got a really nice clean victory.

I personally think that was one of the strongest/cleanest scum victories I’ve ever had.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tris/Jjh could be the team

You think NM is town then?

~M

No. He’s done nothing. Doesn’t make him scum either. He’s in the POE, though because I have town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

Scum make jokes too

do you think that was a scummy joke?

If they are scum, then yes.

If they are town, then no.

Both answers are equal in that specific situation.

Other things I’ve brought up, multiples times, might I add, are still the reason for me seeing them as likely scum. If they are actually town, then fine. This is an annoying hold up that seems super forced

[Flavor Leaf]

Tris/Jjh could be the team

You think NM is town then?

~M

Also this is an annoying comment as well because I’ve given multiple team suggestions and thoughts on stuff.

I brought up earlier one of DrP/NM with one of Kamane/Ampharos.

I played with the idea of KD/Ampharos team.

And also Jjh/Tris, both players that I have also stated were in my POE.

It’s Day 2, I’ll be able to solidify reads more and what I feel is more likely with more stuff in the game.

Like, I’m pretty sure I’ve brought all this up, so it’s annoying when people try and nitpick one little thing out of my comments like this and that tris comment.

The answer to the questions have been there, and I’m straight up willing to drop certain reasonings on players for believing my reads list is at least decently accurate on top of the fact that I have multiple reasons I find solid for almost every player in the game, that even if I still think that leans towards one way or another, I will actively not use certain aspects in cases if I feel that it’s just gonna be a hold up issue, like the “is it a scum joke?” Line.

I will literally take that away from my reasonings for leaning scum on Ampharos because by no means is that a main reason for the read, it’s just a sprinkle. The ice cream sundae is still there, I can’t see the bottom flavor yet, though. Haven’t eaten enough of it yet.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m casually annoyed, not seriously annoyed, if that makes sense.

Like I don’t mind that I’m annoyed, but I’mma be obnoxious back to the obnoxiousness, and that’s just mafia

[Flavor Leaf]

I personally think the Not Mafia kill is kinda lazy, and we could have just faded him to begin with if that were the case.

Shooting in Ampharos/KD gives more info and just as likely to hit scum, really

[Flavor Leaf]

That being said, NM isn’t a terrible vengekill in itself, I just don’t think it’s the premiere. Top 4 vengekills, though, so it’s fine.

I’m not going to straight up “vote” for NM, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

JJH should start seeing me as town eventually

[Flavor Leaf]

Unless he gets a giant case of Flavor Fever

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact that I have a fairly weak resistance appearing should be enough to see that NM and I aren’t scum together. There’s a very real possibility that NM gets vengekilled, and if that happens and he did flip scum, scum me would be screwed. I would arguably say a scumNM flip screws me, which kinda sucks, but at the end of the day, if he’s scum, that’s 2 scum dead, I have faith town could find the last one even if I’m misfaded.

Essentially, as scum with NM, I’d have to hard defend him here.

I also am a confirmed double voter, DND wagon doesn’t go through if I were scum this game. It just doesn’t.

[Flavor Leaf]

Stop trying to make things that aren't things be things

Flavor Fever’s real, been a thing for years.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can make fetch happen

[Flavor Leaf]

Believe it

[Flavor Leaf]

@DrP - you can kill JJH too, and I’d be happy with that. He’s been trying to discredit me for a while for some reason

[Flavor Leaf]

He doesn’t even converse about the analysis sides of things.

[Flavor Leaf]

Here’s my thing, if DrP and NM are both town, that’s the best case scenario for scum because they’re 2 inactive slots, and future days can still focus on an Ampharos vs KD dynamic, or JJH/Tris get extra coasting time.

I do believe this day phase both JJH and Tris have been coasting. Yes, they’ve popped in from time to time and made some strong statements, but that’s exactly how I would expect scum to coast.

I’m almost okay saying that I think the rest of the scum team is within those 6 players (let’s say 5 players, because I don’t think DrP is scum) with my only possible outlier right now is in Gamma Emerald potentially scum.

That’s a decent sized POE, but we’re getting rid of 2 slots this phase.

JJH might even be chainsawing me because I’m pushing Ampharos.