Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Starbuck]

Hi everyone! I was so sad to miss the initial player list, but glad to be here now!

I'll try to have this all caught up today.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 1 to Page 5.

I'm going to go ahead and UNVOTE:

In my experience from playing with midwaybear, he's always scum

Truth!

I know it's RVS, but Dunn voting skitter being too cheery (in the midst of COVID) is lame. The explanation in 17 is just odd and add that to the accusation of skitter being overdefensive, all while still on Page 1. Yeah, Dunn's not winning me over here. Hoping this is more on the reaction test side of things than the scumhunting side because it's weak. Oh man, then it continues on to the back and forth with lilith that, again, seems so serious for Page 2.

This must be a newer-MS thing of taking semantics and blowing them up, as it seems to come from both town and scum. Not quite sure where to sort Dunn just yet, but leaning town-ish given Weakest Link's recent finish. I hate meta, too, but it's still fresh in my mind.

I like that lilith just gives it right back to Dunn. Her stances and words feel genuine.

Do you think he's coming out of the gate swinging on Skitter like this as scum? That just seems pretty bold if you ask me.

+1


Sorry today ended up being a bit all over. More in the morn!

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 6 to Page 8 (Sorry there was a lot to unpack)

How do I say this properly...

Lilith I looked at your back and forth with Dunn and I think you're a bit tunneled/focused on him too much. Like, if Dunn is scum I doubt a lot of the reasons you're calling him scum went through his head and was an action he decided to consciously take as scum. That's just, so much early game when really it isn't needed at all.

What a strange post. You’re talking to me like you know I’m town and you’re talking about Dunn like you know he’s town and you’re trying to defend him but you’re not actually pointing out anything towny about him, it’s a very null defense.

VOTE: clover

I don't like this vote, as it feels overreactive. I read Clover as trying to sort Dunn and Lilith and just taking a different POV. It feels more like Lilith putting words into Clover's mouth rather than asking to him elaborate further.

Ugh, and my predecessor jumped on this wagon. Lame.

I like Clover's follow up in 137.

I don't disagree but the last time I didn't give midway space he was town choked and tunneled all game.

Seriously hoping that this doesn't happen here.

Also, clover ebi is using a lot of emojis. I think this could be because he is nervous and paranoid about his posts.

This is like spring saying that PB is manipulative even with his username or folks trying to figure out TSE's alignment given gifs/pics. It's NAI.

How do I say this properly...

Lilith I looked at your back and forth with Dunn and I think you're a bit tunneled/focused on him too much. Like, if Dunn is scum I doubt a lot of the reasons you're calling him scum went through his head and was an action he decided to consciously take as scum. That's just, so much early game when really it isn't needed at all.

What a strange post. You’re talking to me like you know I’m town and you’re talking about Dunn like you know he’s town and you’re trying to defend him but you’re not actually pointing out anything towny about him, it’s a very null defense.

VOTE: clover

this is a weird reason to vote clover imo
like i'm not sure he's really talking to you like he thinks either you/dunn are town (also didn't he just say on the last page that he was townleaning both of you?)
and i'm also not sure that givng a 'very null defense' is a reason to vote him?

I'm glad someone called this out in the moment.


Tuxedo Mask's entrance in 158 to criticize beeboy's entrance is rather rich given that he's entering the game so late. Glad to see votato call this out, too.

Like he doesn't say that this game is different from scum Dunnstral he's seen. He says that "by nature" Dunnstral scum doesn't play like this. Implying he's almost incapable of it, and it's based on only one game. It feels much stronger than evidence supports.

I was also in the game with beeboy and Dunn that beeboy is referencing and Dunn is acting completely different in these first few pages than he did in that game. It's a fair point to bring up.

beeboy defends himself on this and has far more experience with Dunn than I do, but still same.

Just what I feel is the game was moving fast and revolving around Dunnstral wagon. Beeboy comes in and really try to pull the conversation off game stuff, and then hops in with a defense of Dunn. Neither of these things on their own would have pinged me, but together it feels like a good place to start. Like if Beeboy posted fluff and then hopped on the Dunn wagon I wouldn't feel they were trying to derail, or if they just hopped on with a defense of Dunn it probably wouldn't have stuck out, but the two together feels calculated(?).

Reading it all super belatedly, I didn't get this at all.

beeboy's vote after this is validated.

It is really interesting that you respond to me, and then toss this on at the end. It feels like you're trying to set me up to fail. If I respond then all my posts continue to be about you, and if I change the subject it looks like I'm ignoring your points. I feel if you actually cared about my content outside of you, you could have just asked me a question.

This is a weird response and total appeal to emotion. Of course, you can continue to sort the rest of the players. How is this even a thing?

beeboy this feels like a huuuuuuge stretch. i actually agree with your initial assessment of tuxedo mask's case but you engaged Tux; why is it scummy for him to focus on responding to you?

No your right it isn't, I am getting upset and tunneling him because I see things clearly other people arent. Sorry I'll give him space.

To be fair, you guys went back and forth for a while with no one else talking. Again, reading super belatedly, a tunnel (for me) lasts for a few pages this was like not even a half page. I'm not sure why you feel so defeated here and through the rest of this page.

Not sure how I feel at Nahdia's attempt to wrangle the 1v1, but it seemed to help beeboy, so that's a positive.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 9 to Page 11.

Is fluff posting Ai though is the real question we should be discussing.

It's NAI, just like using emojis that are available on every forum on the web.

a lot of people don't openly admit their pushes are weak early on. It's actually funny sometimes how big the gap between how good the push is and how confident someone is about it. I think he was playing it up in an attempt to sort you, so it doesn't really make sense to see it as town!Dunn backs down and scum!dunn doubles down

I was pushing what was available at the time.

This is fair analysis

Pushing something that's completely NAI, though. There was nothing available and it made no sense. I'm having a hard time believing that you're astounded by the reactions it got.

trying to delineate between these arguments feels pretty forced to me. skitter actively chose to use exclamation points in a way that is uncommon for her.

Yep, that's what I'm on about

Y'all are ganging up because of exclamation points? More weak pushes for NAI things.


So Nahdia votes beeboy without explanation, then gets asked why, and says it's an overreaction to Tux, but doesn't expand on the what.


Fully appreciating MT's case on Tuxedo in 221 and 227. He would have had my vote here, too.

It feels like Tux is trying to make beeboy scum more than he's convincing me why beeboy is scum

Yes, this!

Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

[Starbuck]

Saturday night and yesterday got a bit busy. Will be hoping to finish catching up today.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 12 to Page 15.

Lots of meta conversation that I'm lost on amidst these pages, but I'm slogging through.

I see the whole thing of votato getting frustrated regarding Clover not having scumreads that early. Everyone sorts differently, some scumhunt while others try to sort out who reads as town and go from there. It's a playstyle thing.

In the game I've played with beeboy before he was cool as a cucumber.

+1

I don't know how to feel about Beeboy right now. I feel his reason for defending Dunnstral was fine, but I don't know how to feel about his exchange with me. Some parts feel townie some parts feel scummy. I think its best if I put them on the back burner for now, get distance from my initial read of them. Or else I'm just going to be a tunnely mess.

What felt town and what felt scum? How do you feel now?

I'm not sure what to think of votato having me as logical scum but actually he thought I was town and the logic was wrong. That's weird.

VOTE: lilith

And yes Mr Clover Ebi, I'd like your opinion

What is this Lilith vote about?

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 16 to Page 22

Wow, sorry I'm so late to the party guys. This game is moving fast. I don't like Beeboy's entrance at all. It seems to try and derail the momentum building on Dunn, before swinging into to defend him when he starts posting content. What's up with that? Why did you want people to say hi so much?

VOTE: Beeboy

This post feels kinda disjointed in relation to the gamestate, and I think might have been an attempt to swing attention away from the me/dunn/votato/skitter stuff going on - which I could see either as trying to derail a wagon on a buddy or like.. trying to derail the reads that the four of us were developing there.

Tux, what was your Dunn read when you posted this?

I just needed to note this as the quoted post is Tux's entrance where he calls beeboy out for derailing and is now, himself, getting called out for derailing.

I appreciate this.


No wonder this read-through is becoming slog. I understand re-reading, but folks shouldn't have to endure 12 posts in a row from the same person (i.e. lilith on Page 18). That's just discourteous. Condense it all because it becomes spam/flooding the thread. I'm not sure if this is purposeful yet or not, but I'm noting it.

Is paranoia the only thing stopping you from townreading Lilith Votato? Because if that's the case you should probably have her as town. At least for day 1. (Even though I think she's obvious)

What's so obvious about her? I haven't played with her before.

The more I read from this game, the more confused I get.

Same.

If the former - I think anyone who's played with scum!me (especially you) should recognize this is pretty far out of my scumrange. If the latter, I can pretend I'm still scumreading you if you want.

This kind of comment always feels townie to me, but i just looked through your scumgame (guns and roses iv) and errrr...i disagree. maybe i'm paranoid. i think you seem "townie" based on your fearlessness, but that's a playstyle. why do you say you're out of your scumrange?

But self-meta in and of itself is gross. So why do you get townie out of that? And why would you ask for elaboration on self meta?


Lilith votes Raven out of nowhere on the top of Page 20. I like the spirit, but Raven has been contributing and giving some reads and opinions. If that was just meant to be a push vote, I felt like it could have been utilized elsewhere at this point.


Back and forth between Nahdia and skitter on Page 22 strikes me because skitter shouldn't have to draw reads out of Nahdia and play 20 questions. I'm not sure why Nahdia can't just lay out her reads with reasons, but then she does and they're all rather weak. Like scumreading midway because he has a reputation for being scummy. Wouldn't the false-positive put him towards a town read rather than a scum read?



There are still quite a few quiet people at this point where I'm reading, but it probably doesn't help that there are some loud and overpowering voices. Just looking at the current activity overview (as of 10:16 EDT on 7/6), lilith has 177 posts and the next person below her is skitter with 110. Thinking about thread flooding, as I've seen it come more from scum in my time, than town, it's going to weigh heavily on my read of lilith.

Imo raven saying “The more I read, the more confused I am” feels more like a performative “poor me” than like, a reachout for someone to help get her engaged

This kind of condescension doesn't help either.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 23 to Page 27

I'm mind melding with tux on his other reads and that is bothering me a lot. Outside Nahdia I think their push on me is realistic but wrong, their opening matches a 1 note DM where we agreed our old playstyle were overwelming. Neither of which make Nahdia town but they both justify what they have done.

But we both agree Kanna and MT are playing like town and we both are getting pings from Votato without overly getting a scum read. And we have similar meta pools on all 3 players. Albeit I could be giving Kanna needless space due to noughts and crosses and I may just get slapped one day because of that.

Why is it bothering you? Are you no longer scumreading Tux because his reads line up with yours?

It's not that simple. I feel like the self doubt he expressed was making me think he could just be having a rough time with bad reads. It's not the first time I've been tunneled by town for bad reasons.

I don't think he is town yet but I am moving towards being unsure because I am getting pings elsewhere from Votato and Drusilla

This is a reasonable approach given how unreasonable the situation.

Spoiler: lilith

@Dunn, what makes you think Skitter’s posting is “fake”?
I don’t understand Nadhia at all.

@Votato, what is so scummy about Clover not having any confident scumreads early on D1?

these 3 lines are about completely separate things - so I don't see a coherent thought process behind this post.

The more I read from this game, the more confused I get. I’m liking Votato a bit better now but I still don’t understand why Clover is his #1 scumread.

I have 0 experience with Lillith but nothing she’s posting is particularly pinging me.

Anyone here have meta on Nadhia? I’m having the most trouble trying to parse her.

@Dunn, can you please answer my Skitter question? Thanks.

And thanks @mod for preventing me from undue eyestrain.

Also these

What's wrong with that though? Can she not condense and address all of her thoughts in one post? You're seemingly going after her because you don't like the way she formats.

Why do you feel like they have to be connected?

Now that I'm speaking outloud I just wanna kinda move my vote to here VOTE: midway So his meta is he's scummy as town but...scummy as scum? That could be a really easily used defense and I just kinda want to put some pressure here see where it leads

Yeah, I don't see the logic behind this vote. Pressure for the sake of pressure, but you're not reading him as scum? Just seems like an easy out and a sheeping of Nahdia's read.

I don't get the point of Clover's vote.

Same

I don’t understand a lot of her posts but her tone is coming off as kind of genuine. I was a bit worried about Lillith but her wanting to pressure vote me reads townie.

What about it comes off as genuine?

Why does her pressure vote read town to you?


I'm not really seeing the Nahdia/Raven connection, so I think I'll save that to go back and re-read.


And I just got to my first vote in the game. I honestly thought I would have caught up Friday, but y'all are verbose!

Meh, it just felt like people were defending votato so you tried to inconspicuously unvote while providing that reason(more content). Like trying to subtlety back off.

This seems a weird thing to push. Most players that I come across typically unvote when a replacement comes in. I know I'm the subject of it right now, but seems an awkward stance to take.

i feel like you're trying to tie yourself to raven almost ...

also here, you said it's like nahdia is trying to tie herself to raven - why would scum *try* and tie themselves to their partner?

I've been having this same thought as I've been reading.

[Starbuck]

EBWOP: Got to my first post in the game, not first vote. Jesus, it's late.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck I don't mean to be rude, but is there a reason your catch up is taking so long?

Caught this as I'm sitting back down. It was a holiday weekend, I've had to work, and then there were pages that kept getting added on the back end as I was catching up, thus, making it longer. I made a comment about that in my above posts when I took a look at the Activity Overview. It feels like the thread is getting flooded and it's just unhelpful.

Additionally, I'm trying to read so I know what's happening and not skim because I don't feel that is courteous to all of you. I know we're coming up on deadline, so I'm trying to get there before it hits.

[Starbuck]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 28 to Page 36.

Lilith recaps her stance on Raven at the top of Page 29. I'm still not seeing what she sees here, as it all feels really superficial.

I'm positive there's scum on my wagon. I can't understand anyone who's seriously scumreading me - if you think I am capable of creating this much content with so many different underlying threads going on when I'm scum, then I'm actually super flattered you think I'm that good, but I feel like I'm the most obvtown slot in this game.

I don't like this WIFOM at all. I've seen plenty of scum hide behind valid content. This shouldn't even be a thing. skitter's later agreement (as the 2nd highest producer of content in this thread) of this post is concerning.


Also, if I take a drink for every time someone says "low hanging fruit," I'll be drunk for days. I think we've gotten the point there.


I appreciate skitter's 711 - 714. I needed that laid out for me. I still don't agree on the Raven read, but I can see the partner-y point on Nahdia.


Dunn's jump onto midway at the bottom of Page 29 just proves how much he's skimming/not paying attention.

I'm closing in on 150 posts and no one has complained about that yet; I made probably 30 posts very close together at one point while catching up, and again, no one has complained.. I feel like this is a bit of a flimsy excuse. I want you to post your thoughts because otherwise how are people supposed to read you?

I wouldn't brag about this and I know it's not just you because I've seen it from others, too. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I feel really bad for anyone else who might need to replace in after me because this catch up has been a slog. There's no reason to have 11 or 12 posts back to back from the same person when you can just hit Q+ at the top corner of the post and do a condensed version with your thoughts. You can even highlight certain sentences in a post and reply to those sentences/questions specifically instead of quoting the whole thing. I'm not being sassy here, really. I want to not wade through pages of the same people just continually responding.

On the other side, there's much to be said about constantly needing to be in the spotlight. I'm not sure if that's NAI or not, but it doesn't necessarily make room for those who want to contribute and will be drowned out.

Also until recently I had this sense that you were constantly in "catch-up mode" and not really creating your own content/pushing interactions. It's better now but I also feel like that's at least partly because I started pushing you and you started receiving pressure

This patting on the back feels weird to me.

Just because someone defends another person doesn't mean they are both scum together.

+1

The more midway just throws shade around instead of doing much solving in his posts the more I feel comfortable with my vote on him.

He kinda did the same thing in Weakest Link and turned out to be town. I might reevaluate that if I were you.

I am going to be honest here, this game is a solid balance between being very content dense and me not actually being able to get any solid reads. I am not sure if that says more about the game or me as a player.

I couldn't agree more. I've been delving through these pages so hard, and staying up late tonight to finish, that I think my eyes are crossed currently and I'm still not sure on reads for like 3/4 of everyone. Also, the constant references to meta and outside the game stuff isn't helping my concentration.


Loving what I've skimmed of MT's 871. Going to go back and read it in full a bit later, though. Definite town feels there.



I'm passing out. Rest in the morning. Please don't add like 10 pages.

[Starbuck]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

Sorry, wait, what's your point here?

What I'm saying is if on page 2 Beeboy posted saying hi, and on page 3 posted again complaining no one said hi back it means they are there watching the game unfold but refusing to participate. Page 4 is when they start posting content. What does any of that have to do with day length, time stamps, or me not posting till page 7?

That there was an hour between when the thread opened and when he posted. You can't really go by pages at that point because they were already moving quickly and the game was ONLY AN HOUR OLD. The fact that you still feel "weird" about his entrance, now, just shows that you're trying to hold onto that to possibly push it later when it was a ridiculous case to even start.

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

I think lilith was right to call you out in 402 for trying to derail the conversation that was happening. I'm not sure if I agree with her idea of your motive, but I think you had a motive then and you still have one now or you wouldn't be hanging onto it being "weird."

[Starbuck]

Does anyone else think that the Nahdia wagon is gaining traction relatively fast or is it just me?

I'm feeling it, too, but we are getting close to deadline.

Starbuck is fine so I will continue to let her play out the game for the foreseeable future. I just also believe catch ups are relatively easy to fake as scum so she isn't even into the real 'sauce' yet

I have asked questions and such along the way, but other than Tux, recently, no one has really responded or tried to interact. So that isn't really helpful.

[Starbuck]

So I think I've seen the points on Nahdia, but if anyone on that wagon wants to condense some of that case. I'd be grateful.

Kanna and Raven, can you condense the skitter case for me?

[Starbuck]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

Sorry, wait, what's your point here?

What I'm saying is if on page 2 Beeboy posted saying hi, and on page 3 posted again complaining no one said hi back it means they are there watching the game unfold but refusing to participate. Page 4 is when they start posting content. What does any of that have to do with day length, time stamps, or me not posting till page 7?

That there was an hour between when the thread opened and when he posted. You can't really go by pages at that point because they were already moving quickly and the game was ONLY AN HOUR OLD. The fact that you still feel "weird" about his entrance, now, just shows that you're trying to hold onto that to possibly push it later when it was a ridiculous case to even start.

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

I think lilith was right to call you out in 402 for trying to derail the conversation that was happening. I'm not sure if I agree with her idea of your motive, but I think you had a motive then and you still have one now or you wouldn't be hanging onto it being "weird."

Why does it matter how old the game was? That is completely unrelated to the point I was making. What I'm saying is that by the time Beeboy first posted a wagon on Dunnstral was already going. Beeboy does not comment, just says hi. Then a page later he complains no one said hi back. That means Beeboy is watching the conversation in-game unfold, and is reading close enough to know no one said hi but still doesn't comment on what is happening in the game. What the intention behind that is up for interpretation, but what happened is just an objective reading of the game. I don't see how those actions are relevant to the game being 1 hour old, or me not posting till it was 8 hours old.

There's a lot of assumption from you regarding this and I don't like it.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

[Starbuck]

It has everything to do with the time stamps. You keep referencing the pages like the time stamps don't matter. The fact that you're not acknowledging that the game was only an hour old, at the time of beeboy's initial post, is suspect. It's easy to come in nearly 8 hours later and call him out for saying hi on Page 4 and then make assumptions that he had to be watching and waiting for a whole hour in the middle of a week day. I don't know exactly what beeboy was doing, but I wouldn't get up in arms about someone entering the thread an hour into the game like that and still be hanging on to that now. The sheer fact that you're still defending your stance on this is problematic.

[Starbuck]

I mean Page 2, not Page 4. In the middle of work stuff, but response upon my return.

[Starbuck]

There's a lot of assumption from you regarding this and I don't like it.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

oh it gets worse
@starbuck i think 941 is a townie post. i dont understand what part of it prompted you to vote him

I wanted to see his reaction. I'm still not a fan, but he isn't the elimination today.

[Starbuck]

Are you reading what I'm saying?

I just finished a hefty catch-up. I'm bound to mix something up.

Beeboy said hi on page 2. But the page is irrelevant, what's relevant is his follow up on page 3 where hs says he's upset on no one said hi back. Meaning Beeboy was present, and reading the thread. At least enough to see no one responded to his intro. Now what that means, I don't know, but it IS what happened. Page 4 is when Beeboy finally got involved in the discussion.

Okay, he still got into it within an hour of the thread opening and I think you're being unfair when you decided to pick apart his entrance and not really touch on anything else. It's a pointed attack and it's not a good look. Maybe it's because you're a newer player that you picked such an awful thing to case somebody on, especially because your late entry into the game makes it easy for you to pick that angle.

I'm not making any assumptions because it was all there on the page. Beeboy was posting during the Dunnstral discussion and reading close enough to see people weren't responding to him. If there is something else I am missing please let me know, because I really have no clue what you're talking about.

I think you're assuming beeboy's motives. This whole thread has been moving fast and for this, I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt. I can totally understand his frustration when being pushed for something so inane. Your willingness to not admit that your push was weak, and is still weak, is concerning.

[Starbuck]

@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.

i feel like it's been overexplained at this point, were you following our interactions? basically, i felt like skitter's partner push was agenda-y and there were parts of it that didn't add up which made me think it could be faked. also, raven/nahdia both didn't look good at the time, which would make sense for scum motivation.

This is a perfect summation. I had asked for this, too.

What's wrong with that though? Can she not condense and address all of her thoughts in one post? You're seemingly going after her because you don't like the way she formats.

i mean tbf this is partially why you're shading lilith ...

There's a difference between the way Raven was formatting what she said within one or two posts and consistent flooding of the thread. I wanted to bring it up because it seems unfair to chastise Raven when she just seemed to do a summation of her thoughts. I appreciate her courtesy to the rest of everyone who is playing and I could easily read her thought process. I didn't think it was fair to say to her "well, you don't post in a way that I like, so I'll automatically read you as scum" (or something to that effect). I don't care for backing her into a corner like that.

It's also concerning, given that you're doing it right behind lilith, that you'd point this out. I have felt a sort of tag-team between you and lilith since I started reading, but I was thinking it was because you both might have known each other for a while on site. So I'm trying to separate that from gameplay. However, there's a point when it's concerning that one or two voices seem to be constant. Either you're doing it just because you're responding or you're doing it to purposefully drown everyone else out.

Is the Tuxedo/Starbuck timestamp thing important? when i was skimming earlier i feel like i read the word "timestamp" get brought up like 500 times and i worry that it might be a huge argument over very little

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

Okay I think that Tuxedo failing to consider timestamps = He wanted to throw shade quick is a bit of a reach. Although i suppose you're just saying it's a possibility, which is fair

I agree that his entrance was very odd and disjointed with the thread, and I think he did make it quick without checking over it too hard. I think you're on the right track there -- I interpreted it as scummy then but since i've been getting townpinged by Tux. It's hard to explain, i sort of feel like he's finding it difficult to get into the game -- which could certainly be a sign of scum but also reminds me of myself as town when i dont have the time/will to read through everything perfectly

Not for today, it was just something that I wanted to bring up in regards to Tux vs beeboy. I just think it's rich to get all irate at beeboy's entrance, when the thread was open for an hour, when you're coming in for the first time nearly 8 hours later. It feels like Tux wanted to make a bold statement with his late entry to the thread. He did, but it wasn't a good one because I don't know how you shade someone's entrance when you're entering the game way later than them. Simply, I'm not sure if it points to Tux's noobishness as a player or a bad scum case. Time will tell.

I also don't think failing to consider timestamps = throwing shade real fast. I think he wanted to throw shade real fast and didn't consider how long the game had been open when beeboy posted. The lack of attention to detail there is what bothers me. I think he was looking for an easy way to enter the thread and deliver on something given that he was so late to the game.

[Starbuck]

UNVOTE: Tuxedo Mask

[Starbuck]

Let's see here, I need to take a look closer at a few folks.....

So far I've sorted

Townish
Morning Tweet
Kanna
beeboy
Raven Branwen
Clover Ebi


Needs sorting
Dunnstral (lots of fluff and not really adding anything to any of the conversations going on)
midwaybear (posting enough to stay current, I guess, but definitely staying under the radar)
drusilla (she has less posts than me now, so I figured I'd just go back in ISO and get a feel)
Tuxedo Mask (I'm leaning more null than scum here because his argument and stubbornness are what's keeping me from going back town on him. If he'd just admit that his stance is flawed, even if he keeps at it, that would be better. A little humility goes a long way.)


I feel like there may be scum in one of skitter30 and lilith. Where skitter is saying she seems a lot of defense in Nahdia and Raven, I'm seeing quite the same between the two of them and it's not even my thoughts of the high density of posts which is now being misrepresented. I'm concerned that they are swapping to voting for anyone who dares say something controversial about them, even if it's just a simple "hey, there are 11 other people in the room, you should let them speak, too." I don't think this pairing off thing is typically a good move on Day 1 but there's some real buddying happening and I'm not a fan.

[Starbuck]

Oh I left off Nahdia above, she needs to be in the null-ish pile because she reads one way to me and then another post goes the other way, so I need to ISO her like I need to do drusilla.

[Starbuck]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

Not when you have replacements coming in who are trying to catch up with pages being added onto the back end. I had Tuxedo, I think, ask why it was taking me so long to catch up and it was because I was coming across 11 or 12 posts in a row from you just because you couldn't condense. Spoiler tags are a thing, too. Morning Tweet's big write up in 871 is a great use of the site's features.

@Starbuck, how have we misrepresented your posts? Where did you say that the reason you wanted me to post less was so that other people could speak? Iirc you’ve only pointed at my post count to say that I’m clogging up the thread and could be scum for flooding, and also to shade me saying that I’m obvtown

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

Spoiler: Posts where I've expressed concern:

No wonder this read-through is becoming slog. I understand re-reading, but folks shouldn't have to endure 12 posts in a row from the same person (i.e. lilith on Page 18). That's just discourteous. Condense it all because it becomes spam/flooding the thread. I'm not sure if this is purposeful yet or not, but I'm noting it.

@Starbuck I don't mean to be rude, but is there a reason your catch up is taking so long?

Caught this as I'm sitting back down. It was a holiday weekend, I've had to work, and then there were pages that kept getting added on the back end as I was catching up, thus, making it longer. I made a comment about that in my above posts when I took a look at the Activity Overview. It feels like the thread is getting flooded and it's just unhelpful.

Additionally, I'm trying to read so I know what's happening and not skim because I don't feel that is courteous to all of you. I know we're coming up on deadline, so I'm trying to get there before it hits.

I wouldn't brag about this and I know it's not just you because I've seen it from others, too. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I feel really bad for anyone else who might need to replace in after me because this catch up has been a slog. There's no reason to have 11 or 12 posts back to back from the same person when you can just hit Q+ at the top corner of the post and do a condensed version with your thoughts. You can even highlight certain sentences in a post and reply to those sentences/questions specifically instead of quoting the whole thing. I'm not being sassy here, really. I want to not wade through pages of the same people just continually responding.

On the other side, there's much to be said about constantly needing to be in the spotlight. I'm not sure if that's NAI or not, but it doesn't necessarily make room for those who want to contribute and will be drowned out.

There's a difference between the way Raven was formatting what she said within one or two posts and consistent flooding of the thread. I wanted to bring it up because it seems unfair to chastise Raven when she just seemed to do a summation of her thoughts. I appreciate her courtesy to the rest of everyone who is playing and I could easily read her thought process. I didn't think it was fair to say to her "well, you don't post in a way that I like, so I'll automatically read you as scum" (or something to that effect). I don't care for backing her into a corner like that.

It's also concerning, given that you're doing it right behind lilith, that you'd point this out. I have felt a sort of tag-team between you and lilith since I started reading, but I was thinking it was because you both might have known each other for a while on site. So I'm trying to separate that from gameplay. However, there's a point when it's concerning that one or two voices seem to be constant. Either you're doing it just because you're responding or you're doing it to purposefully drown everyone else out.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up, but it could also be why some folks are so quiet. They probably feel they can't get a word in edgewise anyways.

[Starbuck]

Describing your own meta in defense of your actions in a current game does nothing for me, by the way. You can tell me all day that you do certain things as town and certain things a scum, but that doesn't mean that you won't change it up in the current game that we're playing.

[Starbuck]

Another thought before I head to my garden for a bit, I see quite a few folks stating my catch up is lackluster or other derogatory adjectives, but none of y'all have tried to interact with me or ask me questions. I have plenty of questions and things to comment on in my catch up, but the lack of wanting to interact (like you've already written me off) is problematic, too.

[Starbuck]

To be fair, spring was toxic AF in that game and was also recently banned. I wasn't the only one that she was putting through the ringer and wholly made the game unenjoyable for a number of people.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck I'm still confused, can you explain how my late entry into the game has any bearing on what I said about Beeboys entry?

I missed this earlier.

I've already been over it. I think it's hypocritical of you to chastise someone's entry to the game when you didn't even post the first time until 8 hours after the thread had been open. I think you used it to mask your late entry into the game and to try gain early town cred. Some folks are reading you as town. However, I'm not quite sure on you because you still can't admit that your push there has significant faults and not to mention the opportunism behind it all.

[Starbuck]

midway and Dunn, why are you cross voting each other? Neither of you are going to be the elimination today.

Y'all have been way quiet and just kinda peppering in comments, but not really engaging.

[Starbuck]

skitter, talk to me about Nahdia. I know you linked her and Raven, even if I don't see it, but what else am I missing there?

[Starbuck]

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

i mean it's not like i tried to make a good-faith effort to change posting styles, which was ignored, or expressed my concern over your tuxedo vote/push, which was largely ignored, or anything

starbuck did you respond to this?

No, because it read like sarcasm and statement. Didn't seem like there was anything to respond to other than to continue to go down that rabbit hole when it was already solved.

I do appreciate you condensing, though.

[Starbuck]

skitter, talk to me about Nahdia. I know you linked her and Raven, even if I don't see it, but what else am I missing there?

- i think they're scum on meta
- series of bad, shallow takes
- dislike their push on me

There is waaaaay too much meta talk in this game. Linking quotes from other game threads and continuing down those rabbit holes is such a damn distraction from the game at hand. It's probably why I'm struggling on the last bit of my reads. Y'all are so focused on meta, exclamation points, and such that you can't even focus what's happening here.

I want to know why in THIS GAME that someone is scum.

What bad and shallow takes?
What is disliked about their push?

I know I just read through but if you want to highlight certain posts of your ISO that address that to go back and read, that's cool.

[Starbuck]

@Mod

[Starbuck]

Starbuck where is your head at? Are you open to voting Skitter? I get that you're trying to make sense of this vicious waltz skitter and I have going on, but i cant help but feel a bit ignored.

You're not wrong. I've been trying to sort all of that out and figure out motivations and such. I've agreed a lot with what you, Kanna, and Raven have said. MT has been a great voice of reason, too. While I'm still rather null on you (as I can't quite pinpoint you), I'm okay with trusting both Kanna and Raven as they've reflected a lot of what I was thinking when reading. Hence, no follow ups directed to you. Although, I can see how that can appear that I'm ignoring you, even if it wasn't my intention.

I've been trying to sort skitter and lilith because I feel like the same kind of teaming up, that skitter is accusing you and Raven of, is happening there. The defense that is oozing from both of them, when that has been brought to their attention, doesn't feel that great and is quite OMGUS-y. I don't like how you and Raven are being pushed as buddying, but not skitter and lilith. Not to mention the constant use of meta, and the continuous self-meta statements, which to me is just more and more and more WIFOM. I think it was you who pointed it out earlier that it seems like skitter is setting up for tomorrow's elimination already and that hasn't been sitting well with me either.

I think a resolution of one of the "pairs" here is in our best bet this late in the day. Personally, I think either a flip of you or a flip of skitter would give us good info and if we want to have time to swap depending on a claim, we need to do that now.

So VOTE: Skitter

[Starbuck]

I think it was starbuck who mentioned this, but it’s a good point that a skitter/nahdia flip is good to resolve

I'm fine with one or the other. Given skitter's severe overreaction, I'd much rather that elimination.



Midway, we aren't getting Dunn today. Please pick one of Nahdia or skitter. Either or. We need to figure out this 1v1.

[Starbuck]

Y'all want to compromise on midway? Because I'm down for he or Dunn over all the rest of this.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck what changed between posts 1150 and 1151?
bee boy, I have an undefined more posts here than the scum pt. No need to worry

I just want you to actually participate in what's happening rather than sit back and enjoy the show in your Lazy Boy. Same with Dunn.

[Starbuck]

@Star, these posts were one minute apart. Do you no longer think Skitter and Lillith are tagteaming? I can understand why you might consider wanting to settle on MWB or Dunn but why would you prefer it? How can you change your mind this quickly? And if you think the Skitter/Nahdia thing ought to be resolved, then how does either an MWB or Dunn wagon help to resolve this?

Ftr, I am not a fan of compromise wagons, they far more often than not result in a mislynch.

My mind hasn't changed on lilith and skitter. Not sure where you'd get that from.

I was more chiming in on the lack of anything from MWB and Dunn and one or both seem to be in most people's scumreads, so that would be a viable option, too.

[Starbuck]

I still think it's one of skitter or Nahdia today. I'll gladly switch to Nahdia to help resolve that.

I'm not understanding this belated push on me and it feels severely opportunistic.

[Starbuck]

I would rather vote midway but I think my townreads would rather vote Starbuck if I'm reading the room right? I'm conflicted

Your town reads were also stating that Nahdia was their highest scumread, but are voting for me. So how does that make sense?

[Starbuck]

UNVOTE: Unvote
VOTE: Midway

@beeboy Yes

[Starbuck]

I would rather vote midway but I think my townreads would rather vote Starbuck if I'm reading the room right? I'm conflicted

Your town reads were also stating that Nahdia was their highest scumread, but are voting for me. So how does that make sense?

I've said I'd change to Nahdia but Skitter changed thinking I wouldn't. What part isn't making sense here?

So why didn't you swap then? I would have gone there as well, but skitter decided to be all OMGUS when she's nowhere near elimination.

TBH she's way too testy and out of the two, I'd prefer to eliminate her, but I'd go to Nahdia just to resolve that shit.

[Starbuck]

I feel like your bias since my vote is on you, but if I am going to stick to a lynch I want it to go through since I personally don't have needed info to sort nahdia/skitter today.

My wagon appeared out of nowhere with no one giving any god damn reasons other than they didn't like votato, they didn't like that I just asked for the spam to cease, or they didn't like that they got called out for being hypocritical, so I don't what bias I can have when folks are coming up with horrid reasons or no reasons but jumping on my wagon. It's all OMGUS to me at this moment.

I'd like to feel like I didn't waste my time spending a few days catching up just to be eliminated by opportunistic scum.

[Starbuck]

I think Starbuck and Midway are pretty neck and neck for flipping scum, but Starbuck has said a lot more this game on a lot more subjects.

But it shouldn't be that way. midway's been here since the start, so has Dunn.

[Starbuck]

Quite literally, Tux, you're excusing midway and Dunn for what you jumped all over beeboy for in the first however many pages of the game.

[Starbuck]

Look I don't know Starbuck's life, but the fact their catch up took multiple days feels off. Like you said it was standard catch up, but it stretched from their entry into a game (which was early) all the way to deadline. That feels like a good way to be present while avoiding scrutiny.

It was 4th of July weekend. I did have some plans and some unexpected family shit that popped up. It took me a little while, but I got through and got it done with plenty of time to spare. I basically finished up all of my catch up by Monday night. It's Thursday night now.

I replaced in last Friday. It hasn't even been a week yet. I have more posts than drusilla who is sitting at 19. I've been participating more than Dunn and midway who are just gliding along and they started the game with y'all.

You can't sit here and throw this kinda shade on a replacement and not on those who started the game with you, dude. It doesn't work that way.

[Starbuck]

So basically, I'm suspected because I asked folks not to flood the thread (because that was hindering me catching up) and for trying to work through and give as thorough a catch up as I could even when it became a slog? FFS. I can't win.

And the timing of it feels off like they were trying to set me up as an EOD mislynch, then backed off and said it was a reaction test when others disagreed. Then they still shade me by calling my reaction to the test bad but unvoting anyway.

Ain't no one was going to join me on voting you, Tux. I wanted to say what I wanted to say to you and back that shit up with a vote because what you did was shady and hypocritical, as is what you're doing now.

[Starbuck]

like even what she's been doing in the past few hours - she's basically stated she's fine voting literally any of the popular wagons

I said I'd like to sort you and Nahdia because that resolution feels most important today. If it's Nahdia, cool. If it's you, cool.

But all y'all switched to me, so that resolution looks like it's not going to happen.

I'm sure as hell not voting for myself.

[Starbuck]

I did, though. I wanted to have your reaction in real time to me and not just reading it. I still think your reasoning is scummy and I still do, especially now that you're letting midway and dunn slide by knowing that they are reading the thread, but you aren't calling them out in the same way you called out beeboy.

[Starbuck]

@MOD can you delete that? I thought I cleared my copies and I'm a total idiot.

[Starbuck]

In any case, GG everyone. I really was pissed to come back to a quick hammer when I really did give a lot of time to catch up and be cognizant.

I had tried to /in to be here at the beginning but the game had filled. C'est La Vie.

[Starbuck]

Also, I fingered Tuxedo the moment I got in the game. I can't believe no one took that serious.