Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[skitter30]

hey all!

hectic that flavor is super great!

@mod i am regularly vla on fridays and saturdays!

VOTE: lilith!

[skitter30]

indeed!

[skitter30]

now why is being cheery vote-worthy?

[skitter30]

ok, why is that a fake persona over:

- me being in a good mood this morning?
- me writing p much the exact same rvs post that i've written in nearly every game i've played in the past several months?

[skitter30]

i mean ... it was post 9, what do you think i ought to have gotten into at that point?
(and i would argue that making a thing with you over my rvs post would be 'getting into things')

my rvs posts usually go:

Spoiler:

{hey all!}

{sometimes game specific comment rvs-y type comment}

{vla}

{vote}

{possibly gameworthy/ai thing if i saw something at that point}

-
if you would like to argue that that's not what my rvs posts look like you're either underinformed or misrepping me, but we don't have to quibble over this if you don't want to

[skitter30]

meh we can start here
VOTE: dunn

[skitter30]

- not reacting defensively
- your push on me is vapid
- i'm kinda intersted that you're framing my vote on you as 'trying to form a cw' over 'think your entrance is scummy'

[skitter30]

- i didn't actually read votato's post till after i posted my vote on you
- not reacting defensively! i would love for you to point to where you think i'm being defensive over just shutting down a meh push on me!

[skitter30]

I think you overexplained youself here which felt overdefensive

i mean, i thought your push one me was bad, and i explained why. not sure why you're spinning that as overdefensive

I’m happy with my dunn vote although votato is a close second

why vota?

[skitter30]

early townpings on lilith!
(tentatively)

@ lilith u answered the vota thing !

[skitter30]

i'm in an 'exclamation point'-y mood today!

[skitter30]

i would love to hear arguments why it's ai though

[skitter30]

i mean, i'm not sure that i'd equate 'being in an exclamation-point-y mood' with 'putting on a fake persona', and even if it did, i'm not sure why it's scummy

[skitter30]

i actually can see vota wk'ing dunn here

[skitter30]

and tbf i do sometimes keep an early/rvs vote on until i find something better to vote, so i don't find keeping the vote on to be that weird in this context @lilith

[skitter30]

hey!

[skitter30]

I don’t think that’s what’s happening here though - votato seems to be simultaneously calling dunn probtown while keeping his options open to scumread dunn. I don’t think it’s a case of “haven’t found a better vote,” he pretty explicitly said he’s still voting dunn because he could be scum.

idk i've certainly done very similar things like this so this bit in particular i don't find ai
like i voted someone, thought they were scummy, recognized a scenario where they might not be, didn't know where else to vote, so just left my vote on

[skitter30]

either way, a dunn vote is the vastly superior vote at this time imo

[skitter30]

i'm not sure i agree with that assessment of scum!dunn

[skitter30]

oh @beeboy, sorry

[skitter30]

i think his push on me is bad and i have a hard time seeing town!him think that those are legitimate reasons to push me

[skitter30]

like it just feels very hollow and i think he's aware of that
if he had backed down and said something like 'yeah i just picked something dumb to push you for to propel the game out of rvs' i would have been fine with that and probably dropped it, but he doubled down, which makes me think he's treating this as a legitimate/valid reason to scumread me, and i have hard time seeing him actually believe that

also hi mt!!!

[skitter30]

a lot of people don't openly admit their pushes are weak early on. It's actually funny sometimes how big the gap between how good the push is and how confident someone is about it. I think he was playing it up in an attempt to sort you, so it doesn't really make sense to see it as town!Dunn backs down and scum!dunn doubles down

if he was planning on backing down because it was a fake push i would have expected that to have happened already
i don't think it's a push made in good faith
i also dislike his reaction to lilith's push on him

@clover: yes, it's a real vote. i don't think he actually believes this push and i think the fact that he doubled is scummy

[skitter30]

How do I say this properly...

Lilith I looked at your back and forth with Dunn and I think you're a bit tunneled/focused on him too much. Like, if Dunn is scum I doubt a lot of the reasons you're calling him scum went through his head and was an action he decided to consciously take as scum. That's just, so much early game when really it isn't needed at all.

am i tunneled/focused on dunn too much?

[skitter30]

How do I say this properly...

Lilith I looked at your back and forth with Dunn and I think you're a bit tunneled/focused on him too much. Like, if Dunn is scum I doubt a lot of the reasons you're calling him scum went through his head and was an action he decided to consciously take as scum. That's just, so much early game when really it isn't needed at all.

What a strange post. You’re talking to me like you know I’m town and you’re talking about Dunn like you know he’s town and you’re trying to defend him but you’re not actually pointing out anything towny about him, it’s a very null defense.

VOTE: clover

this is a weird reason to vote clover imo
like i'm not sure he's really talking to you like he thinks either you/dunn are town (also didn't he just say on the last page that he was townleaning both of you?)
and i'm also not sure that givng a 'very null defense' is a reason to vote him?

[skitter30]

Also, clover ebi is using a lot of emojis. I think this could be because he is nervous and paranoid about his posts.

do u have experience with clover?

[skitter30]

I looked at your iso again and it seems very reasonable/open. You're talking to others and taking other angles that don't involve Dunn. I don't think you're tunneled atm.

i'm not sure what the difference is between me and lilith then?
lilith has definitely taken other stances too

if anything i would maybe say i'm tunneled on dunn since lilith has moved on and was open to voting votato and i've been doubling down

[skitter30]

ok thanks @clover

townpings on clover and mt
lilith is town but i think her push on clover is unfounded
dunn is scummy
gutscum on midway but i couldn't possibly quantify why at this time

i don't think i have reads on anyone else yet, but i may have forgotten someone

[skitter30]

Wow, sorry I'm so late to the party guys. This game is moving fast. I don't like Beeboy's entrance at all. It seems to try and derail the momentum building on Dunn, before swinging into to defend him when he starts posting content. What's up with that? Why did you want people to say hi so much?

VOTE: Beeboy

oh dear

was this the point of the exclamation points? to gauge reactions to them?

literally cuz i was in a good mood. not sure why people are attributing more to it than that

[skitter30]

or if they just hopped on with a defense of Dunn it probably wouldn't have stuck out,

but the two together feels calculated

(?).

i disagree and i don't get what you're trying to say either
like i think the entire argument doesn't make much sense

=

scumposting.

VOTE: Clover Ebi

i'm not sure that scum make a point of not picking a side there tho?
like it would have been p easy to just say 'skitter is scum' and vote me, or say 'dunn is scum' and vote him
whereas by saying he explicitly does not scumread anyone in that group he's kinda making the obvious pushes harder to hop onto, if that makes sense

uhhh actually i misread it. i thought it said you were getting no pings on anyone, not that you were townreading them. my impression was that you were excusing yourself from forming reads

VOTE: beeboy

eh ok
why vote beeboy?

overreaction to tux.

didn't think it was an overaction

=

i think beeboy is townie
i'm having gutscumpings on nahdia rn

=

Then skitter/lilith/votato reacted to it like crazy and it kept going

bad reaction

Yep, that's what I'm on about

you still haven't explained why 'exclamation points being uncommon for me' and ' being a vote-worthy behavior

[skitter30]

i don't especially want to rehash this again
but that doesn't really mean anything either

also gut townpings on mt

[skitter30]

VOTE: nahdia
I want to try this but i note that dunn is still scummy

[skitter30]

talk to me about nahdia? i have a hard null read there.

feeling off

[skitter30]

- posting feels 'flat'
- don't really like the clover push
- don't really like the beeboy push/vote, and in fact i kinda agreed with the beeboy side of the beeboy/tux thing, so the fact that nahdia is using that to push beeboy is slightly worrying

[skitter30]

and suddenly beeboy is smearing him as "centering all his content around this 1v1" (I explained why this doesn't make sense)

tbh i feel like this is more you smearing beeboy than beeboy smearing tux
like he's right, tux was largely engaging wrt beeboy and not doing much else
i'm not sure i agree with the connotation (i.e. that it's scummy taht tux is doing such) but i'm also not sure it's scummy of beeboy to say this either, because i can understand why beeboy felt that way

also i feel like 188 is a townie reaction to what you said about beeboy's push, no?

also you're right in that you dropped your clover push, i retract that part of my push

[skitter30]

as i said to midway, no, 188 isn't towny. scum will often back down and try to appear cordial. not saying town can't too, but i can 100% see that coming from scum!beeboy if my assessment up till then had been correct.

i feel like scum continue pushing that tho?

[skitter30]

super busy day, i'll try to get around tonight, but if not, then tomorrow

semi vla cuz i'm moving

[skitter30]

catching up

i'm not sure i'm really vibing the scumreads on tux or clover
i'm also not sure i see the kanna townreads

=

i think assuming people are town kinda leads to complacency and insufficient critical examination. if thats your playstyle then ??? but ive never seen it before and feel that its more likely a scumslip

i've seen a few different townies just treat everyone as town until they know otherwise
or, failing that, talking to everyone as if they're town just to be polite
i'm not sure where you're seeing a scumslip here?

=

What do you think of clovers "I can't form scum reads" typically that's scummy because scum just know everyone is town so it can be hard on them.

i actually have a similar vibe rn, so i empathize with it.
there's a few people i actively think are scummy (i.e. dunn and nahdia), and a few people that i actively think are town (i.e. you, mt), and then a bunch of people that are annoyingly in the middle that i don't have a good feel for yet

=

Skitts gave me townvibes in our previous game enough to hold me off of her wagon when it really should've been obvious :X She has a handicap where i set her a bit down in my reads on purpose cause i think regardless of alignment she's going to trick me at least once or twice

=

ok new post !

[skitter30]

I do not really get the votes on nahdia right now btw. The stance on beeboy's frustration with tux was fine to me. I can sorta see what they mean by that, but I still think beeboy is overall more townie. I don't really see why scum would try to paint it as a 1v1 especially if there wasn't a lot of momentum at the time.

their tone is off + i feel like they were using the beeboy/tux thing to initiate a meh push on beeboy that lacks merit and conviction

=

Nahdia seems to be talking about out of both sides of their mouth.

I don’t understand Nadhia at all.

can i interest either of u in voting nahdia?

[skitter30]

I'm not sure what to think of votato having me as logical scum but actually he thought I was town and the logic was wrong. That's weird.

VOTE: lilith

And yes Mr Clover Ebi, I'd like your opinion

yeah i think that votato logic / mis-speak probably doesn't come from scum tbh
i also dislike this lilith vote, but i'm also not sure scum!you makes it

also i have gut townpings on drusilla

[skitter30]

This feels like her method to shade/vote whoever she wants.

I'm not seeing any anger in her posts. She doesn't feel snarky - she's slimy, she seems to h ave an agenda to push

she has more 'heft' here than i've seen from her in recent scumgames
there's an over-arcing thought process that follows/flows from post to post that i dont' think she's fully capable of faking as scum

and to elaborate on what i said before:
i think this push is bad but kinda unlikely to come from scum since lilith is a fairly popular townread and it's a strange place to push here when there's multiple easy/more lynchbaity options
and i think scum!you would maybe back off if beeboy is telling you he thinks she's town, and you're doublilng down

[skitter30]

What has drusilla posted that pinged you as town?

i don't know how to articulate this super well but i'll try

it's not like an individual post but like holistically i think that her posts kind of 'go together' as a coherent thougth process. and it's one that's a bit different from the consensus set of opinions. like she's thinking on a parallel, but different, track than the rest of us and it strikes me as townie because she has a unique approach to the game

i don't know if all of her thoughts are ending up in thread but i like that she can produce answers like the one in the post that follows that belie a broader thought process connecting disparate posts/thoughts, so that makes me think she's trying to solve

@Drusilla what do you think of Tux disengaging? Is more the question I wanted to know why you asked. Sorry that was unclear. What is your answer to that question?

oh sorry. it felt unnatural to me, and i asked morning tweet because she is familiar with him and had just made a comment about him.

idk if that makes sense but i'm also not sure i can explain it better. it makes more sense in my head than how i conveyed it here

[skitter30]

if lilith is scum here suddenly the game makes a lot more sense.

i don't think she's scum here + how would the game make more sense if she were?

[skitter30]

votato talking about townblocks all the time feels like buddiyng. not to mention admits he's apathetic as town and has the second-highest posts?
midwaybear gives all kinds of thoughts/analysis and then says they have no reads in 355.

man these are really surface-level takes ...

[skitter30]

That’s interesting, @votato, are you usually this engaged as town? But I don’t understand, Nahdia. Why does talking about townblocks read as buddying to you? This is my problem with you in a nutshell, you make one statement I can kind of agree with, then combine it with another that leaves me scratching my head.

ok so like overall what do you think of them ... ?

[skitter30]

This kind of comment always feels townie to me, but i just looked through your scumgame (guns and roses iv) and errrr...i disagree. maybe i'm paranoid. i think you seem "townie" based on your fearlessness, but that's a playstyle. why do you say you're out of your scumrange?

i think i have a p good sense for her scumrange at this point, and i think she's out of it

[skitter30]

I guess there might have been some underlying thread that she just hasn’t explained yet but I’d like to hear what that is

they're random enough questions + she's persistant enough in trying to get teh answers that i think she has some reason for asking them and that it would help her resolve {whatever point she's thinking of when asking the questions}

it's mroe the persistence in trying to get an answer that feels townie to me and reinforces the notion that there's some underlying thought process taht she's trying to clarify, if that makes sense

[skitter30]

also i think i might know who the main is and the posting style is consistent of what i would expect from town!them if i'm right

[skitter30]

Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

raven's not great. idk how much experience she has but she's p clearly having trouble getting into the game and is taking a lot of wishy-washy stances; in particular i noted her doing that on nahdia. i can see them being partners

i think i wanna focus on nahdia; i'm p sure that their posting this game does not resemble town!nahdia posting.
whereas raven is just kinda bad but idk if that's a playstyle thing or not

i kinda want to force raven to take an opinion on nahdia

@raven do u scumread or townread nahdia? if you scumread them, can u vote them ?

[skitter30]

Yeah I feel you - I’m not gonna argue that you’re wrong, I just want to see for myself what that thread was before I’m prepared to agree on that read

ya fair, i was just elaborating cuz i sometimes find that rambling on about a read enables me to figure out how to articulate it better, and i think the persistance is part of what's contributing to the townread

can i interest u in voting nahdia btw?

[skitter30]

that's reasonable, and if later in the day i need more help with the nahdia wagon i will be taking u up on that !

[skitter30]

my reads are, in fact, surface level. that doesn't make them also not accurate statements that can indicate scum. i'm looking for scum motivation, and it's there in those posts i point out.

it's just more like ... there's a lot of things that's taken place itt
and i dont' inherently disagree that you've made valid points

my problem is more that out of everythiing that's happened those are the things you chose to comment on? it just feels really shallow and like vague surface-level observations that you've thrown out to make people look bad than actually like you're using these things to sort people. these observations don't seem to be going anywhere and given the lack of a broader scumreads they feel disjointed if that makes sense

[skitter30]

i mean i see what you're saying here skitter. but it's day 1, there's no mechanical foothold in this game, and it's a bigger table by my standards. im gonna plead with you not to read too far into my disengagement. what do you want me to comment on?

maybe can you share 3 spicy reads (excluding beeboy)? i think that would help give me a sense for where you're holding rn

[skitter30]

also i disagree that beeboy has been caught for wrong reasons ... i dont' think he's been caught at all really tbh

[skitter30]

hmmmm
can you also give like a sentence for each of those explaining why? doens't have to be elaborate or anything

[skitter30]

i think, as scum here, it's probably very easy to just shove at me. but the way you're engaging seems less like "feeling out for a good mislynch" and more like an actual effort to sort me!

midway i'm tentative on because apparently he has a reputation for being scummy. i was back modding a game he was in where i kind of saw that. i would like to pressure that slot though. dunnstral i was fine with early because his initial vote was RVS and latching onto the tiniest reasons then is fine. but he's stubbornly held onto the read when i and others have asked him to go back and recontextualize it.

morningtweet was kind of gut. there was one post in particular that made me think "oh this person is actually trying to sort". 334.

i guess i just like ... idk
it's not like these reads/thoughts are impossible to come from town!you so much as i'd kinda expect there to be more .... heft maybe? or weight? or for them to be less shallow?
like i guess i think it's just more likely for scum!you to be approaching the game this way

also i disagree with your dunn read in that i think the fact that he's doubling down is low-key townie for him

mafia is weird because i dont like being scumread but it's also a lot easier to sort people when they're pressuring you. at least, i think so.
i shoul read lilith huh?

also i guess like if you're town do u think it would be easier for u to show ur towniness if i wasn't voting for you? i could back off a bit if u think that would give u room to be townie cuz we still have a lot of time but in a vacuum i think i still want to be voting u

[skitter30]

that you're pushing LHF that is. not that you are.

in raven?
i kinda very much disagree with this take ...

[skitter30]

also that's also nahdia/raven partner-y

[skitter30]

Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

which is it. do you need more content from our slots, or do you think we're scum?

VOTE: lilith

...

[skitter30]

i changed my mind on midway, i think i'm gut-townreading them

[skitter30]

Bleh, I don't like this post. It seemed you were building up to a scum read on me in your catch up. Where did it go? Was it just because in your catch you saw that people weren't pushing me anymore?
VOTE: Lilith

i rather dislike this progression too

[skitter30]

I don’t have a very good history of correctly reading Skitter, so I wanted to understand this better, because I’m obviously not seeing that.

we have any history ?

[skitter30]

i never really got the vibe that she was building to a scumread/vote on you tbh
like it's not like there's a vote on you she ought to have made but didn't imo

and i think the bits she wrote about beeboy were more indicative of how she was reading beeboy than how she was reading you

[skitter30]

do we have a different definition of LHF or something? what i mean is like, she's pushing the same people she says she needs more content on as scum. the reads feel "easy".

i mean she also explained why she's scumreading her, it's not like she's just going like 'meh skitter isn't here so i'll vote her' or something

[skitter30]

Why do you think Nahdia and me look like partners? @Skitter? Because I’m genuinely trying to sort her and don’t want to possibly mislynch a slot that I’m still confused about? I don’t understand a lot of her posts but her tone is coming off as kind of genuine.

because you're making a Big Deal of equivocating over your nahdia read + now nahdia is defending you too

[skitter30]

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

i feel like you're trying to tie yourself to raven almost ...
and if lilith is trying to take an easy read ... why not vote you given that i'm urging her to?

[skitter30]

@skitter, why is doubling down in the first 2 posts scummy, but doubling down in the bottom one townie? what is your read on dunnstral/has it changed?

that's a good question

basically, his rvs vote on me seemed like bs, and he doubled down so it seemed like he was trying to fabricate a push out of nothing.
whereas later, with his lilith read, given how lilith was perceived in thread at the time, it seems like an inoppurtune push for scum to make there as it was a fairly unpopular take, so it seemed townie to me

[skitter30]

@mod per the ban thread i think votato needs to be replaced

[skitter30]

raven i'm acknowledging i see your posts but i'm heading to bed so i'll get to them tomorrow

[skitter30]

Yes because her tone seems genuine to me, what’s wrong with that? Is she? It reads more than she’s concerned about us both being LHFs in this game. Do you disagree that either of us would be easy pushes to make?

- it's more the fact that you keep making a Big Deal over the fact that you don't know how to read them and that you're making a point of making this known. it feels kinda fake.
- I dont' think they're lhf
- you might be (@nahdia in a vacuum i think raven might be lhf but i don't think lilith is approaching it from that angle)

[skitter30]

So, are you townreading him now? What do you think of my votato read?

i'm not fully over his rvs push on me (i still think it's scummy) but i don't want to push him anymore

Taking another look at the game, his posting strikes me as very clearly manipulative and I’m not wrong to fos players who place a suspicious amount of focus on LHF. It reads to me as if votato voted me because his preferred Clover wagon wasn’t gaining enough momentum, so I’m good with this vote.

i dont' particularly agree with this vote, and i'm not sure i would characterize his posting as being manipulative either
and i don't think that's why he voted you

[skitter30]

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

@ raven posts like these feel partner-y

[skitter30]

i don't really see the raven/nahdia link and it feels weird how she's portraying it that way like in these posts:

a) raven is making a point of making it known that she can't commit to a read on nahdia
b) nahdia is defending raven from being pushed
c) what do you think of the fact that lilith also sees the associative?

she also seems to be talking nicely about people who i think are influential/hard to push in this playerlist (beeboy/lilith) + potentially drusilla, if they're town/partners. the response is going to be they're townie sure, but it seems convenient.

i mean ... they're townie so like what do you want me to say? call them scummy?
also multiple people have to the conclusion of town!beeboy and town!lilith. are these scummy reads in general or is it just scummy for me to have them?

this post pinged me at the time as being possibly tmi because this was not a good reason to townread beeboy

it was a good reason to twonread beeboy; i don't think scum back down there the way he did.
and i think it's scummy of nahdia to use that to push him

has your read on dunnstral changed then, skitter?

i don't wnat to vote him anymore

[skitter30]

Hi everyone! I was so sad to miss the initial player list, but glad to be here now!

I'll try to have this all caught up today.

hello!

[skitter30]

Catching up, but on mobile rn, so bear with me

[skitter30]

Yes, I have been talking about it a lot which Nahdia mentioned as well and my response to you is the same as what I posted to her. I don’t see why you think that’s “fake” though

Because i think that the degree to which you're focusing on her is strange

[skitter30]

Can you tell me why? You keep saying that she’s trying to “tie” herself to me and “defend” me and I agree with Kanna as I don’t see how she’s doing either one of those things with that post. Why is calling us both lhfs read as “partnery” to you at all. I don’t get it.

They look like they're trying to lump both of u into the same category, one which ought not to ne pushed. Like they're saying that *neither* of you ought not be pushed here for that reason

[skitter30]

raven does mention not knowing how to read nahdia a few times, but i'm not seeing it as obviously partnery? what would be the scum motivation? why does that make them partners?
for b), i'm not seeing that. can you link those posts?
and c), lilith isn't pushing this connection like you are. the way you're doing this feels agenda-y, i think

A) the associative is more on nahdia's side than raven's
B) i'll requote in a sec
C) i think me and lilith have a similar take on this issue and i disagree that i'm being agenda-y

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

i dont know how one reads Raven' posts as disconnected when they all seem to follow a very clear progression. like, she's devoid of content, yes, but it's all rather consistent content. she outs a few scattered thoughts as the game progresses, but there are two consistent arcs:
her confusion on how to read me
and her read on votato, which she updates as she goes.

I mean, I feel like I've developed decent reads on everyone who I've interacted with, so who's left? people who I haven't talked to, which is pretty much equivalent to low-content

so you're townreading everyone you've interacted with?

i dont know how one reads Raven' posts as disconnected when they all seem to follow a very clear progression. like, she's devoid of content, yes, but it's all rather consistent content. she outs a few scattered thoughts as the game progresses, but there are two consistent arcs:
her confusion on how to read me

Already mentioned that I think her confusion comes off as performative

and her read on votato, which she updates as she goes.

And I don't think the votato read/progression is a valid one. 467 is like, leading up to scumreading both votato and you. She agrees with your push on votato but questions it at the same time.

I mean, I feel like I've developed decent reads on everyone who I've interacted with, so who's left? people who I haven't talked to, which is pretty much equivalent to low-content

so you're townreading everyone you've interacted with?

No - what I mean is that I feel like the people who I still need more content from to sort are mostly in the low-content end of the playerlist. Also I feel like I've followed up with most of those people in one way or another (see 512 - this includes drusilla, MT, raven, and midway)

whether or not the confusion is performative or the votato progression is invalid, it's consistent. which i point out because you referred to her posts as "disconnected". and i dont see how you could have come to that conclusion

do we have a different definition of LHF or something? what i mean is like, she's pushing the same people she says she needs more content on as scum. the reads feel "easy".

i mean she also explained why she's scumreading her, it's not like she's just going like 'meh skitter isn't here so i'll vote her' or something

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

i mean, there are a lot of slots you just havent spoken on. why the extra effort to sort me in particular?

@raven that is

@ kanna these taken together feel partnery to me

[skitter30]

it's like i said in the post. it's not scummy, but it's convenient; i'd expect you to want this kind of footing as scum.

I mean ok ...
I'm not just not going to have those reads because they happen to be viewed as convenient

[skitter30]

i feel like you're trying to tie yourself to raven almost ...

also here, you said it's like nahdia is trying to tie herself to raven - why would scum *try* and tie themselves to their partner?

I'm not sure if they're svs or svt. I'm very confient that they arent tvt tho and that there's scum in the pair

[skitter30]

my other game is over i can focus up here

skitter, do you have much of a read on raven independent on her being partners with me at this point?

Not particulalrly, no

Hey, remember how in botc i said you were town cuz that game looked too different than your recent scumgame?
This looks like your recent scumgame

[skitter30]

Honestly if someone else voted you I probably would have, but you have a solid point I should just do it anyway.
VOTE: Drusilla

I think she's town

[skitter30]

I'm positive there's scum on my wagon. I can't understand anyone who's seriously scumreading me - if you think I am capable of creating this much content with so many different underlying threads going on when I'm scum, then I'm actually super flattered you think I'm that good, but I feel like I'm the most obvtown slot in this game.

re: Raven/Nahdia wagons, they have 0 traction somehow! literally it's just me and skitter voting them.. if they are in fact low hanging fruit, then scum should have been all over those wagons.

Indeed !

[skitter30]

literally how? i was wary of lilith's reads because they seemed convenient & i didn't understand the reasoning. but looking closely at her posts, it did raise the question i asked of her. what about that screams partner like, at all?

You're right. The more i think of it it's wk-y and not really partner-y

I'm very confident there's at least one scum in that pair. For a while i thought it was svs but i think it's svt now and that raven likes being defended by you

[skitter30]

knew this was coming. i'll tell you the exact same thing i told you in BOTC: they're completely different games. in botc, the setup allowed me to enter with a specific plan and there were mechanics i could base all my reads on. in this game, that doesn't exist. you can't expect the same level of engagement when it's literally just a matter of scumhunting versus explaining/extrapolating from heavy mechanics. im a mechanically oriented player.

Tbh this is a large basis for the scumread, and i couldnt really bring this up until now

I think that you're lacking the interest/drive/wim/charisma that you had in your towngame, in a way similar to how you lacked it in your scumgame

And i can cite the mbos game too now. You just have more 'weight' as town, and you're more involved. As scum you just feel ... shallow. Like you're around but not motivated to hunt. And i think that's what you're doing here, and i think it's scummy.

I dont think the lack of mechanics is an adequate explanation really. You still scumhunted in botc

[skitter30]

skitter, when you say "raven likes being defended by [nahdia]," is that implying that raven is the S in the SvT? How can nahdia be WKing raven then?

no, nahdia would be the s in that scenario

[skitter30]

@Skitter, what will you do if Nahdia flips town like I think she likely will? tunnel me because you don’t seem to be too interested in looking at any other possibilities? Why are you not considering the possibility that you could be wrong and that Nahdia and I could both be just town?

Nahdia is correct to question why either you or Lillith continue to push this narrative about us somehow being linked, when there have been no flips. I think it’s kind of premature and not terribly productive to be focusing on associatives before we’ve even had a single flip. At this point in the game, it makes way more sense to be trying to form individual scumreads, don’t you agree?

a) if nahdia flips town, i will reevaluate at that time. i see little reason to townread them, and nobody is really explaining why i'm wrong so ...
b) you defend them. they defend you. i'm kinda baffled that neither of you see the partner-y associatives
c) i'm focusing on nahdia rn, and am trying to get them flipped. i'm not sure what else you want from me. i'm noting an associative. i'm not pushing for your lynch rn because of it

[skitter30]

i'm kinda getting bored about bickering with nahdia/raven about whehter or not they're partners, and i doubt it's going to go anywhere until at least one of them flips scum, so rn i want to concentrae on wagoning nahdia

[skitter30]

you're comparing >24 window of time in which i was in a 9 person game to a 13 person game. like, i do get your read. i think the meta is a valid push. but all i can say is it's wrong in this case. in mbos i was immediately engaged and wagoned and like i said, that makes it a lot easier to read people. there were also fewer slots to keep track of. and i have scumhunted here.

idk what the first sentence means
and like ... from my pov you're not really showing me why i'm wrong other than ... telling me that i'm wrong
like i don't see town!you here much at all
and i kinda immediately engaged and voted (and tried to wagon) you here, so i'm not sure what the difference is

[skitter30]

.... so why is raven liking being defended towny? skitter do you usually try to read for partners on d1?

overindexing on finding partners early is scum mindset imo. sure, some town can do it. but for scum, having partners and considering how you're distancing/associating with them is at the forefront. this is actually what got me caught in the large normal you're referring to!

and considering you admit to not individually reading raven despite all this content based around her, and that the way you're pivoting from SvS to TvS is nonsensical, it's a huge red flag.

gonna go back and reread/case bc i was townleaning earlier but the last time you were pushing me for whacky reasons and i softed up on you, you ended up being scum!

a) i didn't say that i thought raven was townie, don't put words in my mouth. i said that you guys look like svt, which is not at all the same thing
b) i try not to look for partners day1 but i sometimes end up doing that to my dismay ...
c) i'm kinda baffled that i'm getting this much pushback on the you/raven thing, which makes me think i'm on to something ...
d) i think that you're scum. more than that, i am very confident that you're scum. i think that there's something very wacky in how you're engaging with raven, and it makes me think there's at least one scum in the pair. the more i thought about it, i settled on tvs over svs, and i'm not sure why it's a nonsensical read or a red flag
e) and yes, i'd love to hear more about why i'm pushing you for whacky reasons, and why you think i'm scum here.

[skitter30]

i was only in mbos for... 22 hours? idk im not going back to look. i remember it being less than 24 hours. i think my carrot is pointing the wrong way!
and yes that's the problem with meta. there is no way for me to tell you that you're wrong other than tell you that you're wrong. i can point out the differences in the scenarios but if you don't agree with them well, you'll just have to update your meta for next game!

mbos was more of a side bit, i'm really focusing more on botc, and specifically more on the past couple of days and how you were proactive in trying ot move the game along and how you reacted when auro tried to scumread you

a) ??? paraphrase is "i thought it was svs but raven liked being defended so maybe it's tvs". im not sure how else to interpret that.

i'm saying that i think the dynamic between the two of you has at least one scum. if there's *only* one scum, raven's the townie. that doesn't mean i'm townreading her on her own play (i.e. i don't inherently think she's townie), but rather that the circumstances around her slot might mean she's townie,to clarify

the basic premise is this: i think that your mind instantly went to "partners" rather than white-knighting when you admit to not even having an independent read on raven is SUPER telling of your mindset. that's a major logical leap.

i mean the associative started with her refusing to make a read on you. at that point i should have read that as you wk'ing her because ... you hadn't even mentioned her at that point iirc

later on you started defending her, and on balance it's starting to look to me like you took advantage of lilith lumping you together to defend her and yourself by proxy. but that's not how it started and telling me that i should have recognized you wk'ing her at that point is silly

[skitter30]

i have a sick headache so i'll be around tomorrow

[skitter30]

@Skitter, you’re getting “pushback”, because you are so tunnelled on Nahdia, you are ignoring any signs that point against your read on her. 754 doesn’t sound like a scum reaction to being pushed. I don’t understand how you’re not seeing that.

i'm not confbiased and i'm not tunneled. i just very strongly believe they're scum

[skitter30]

From what post(s)?

i'm not actually sure. i just took another look at their iso and i'm not getting those vibes again

[skitter30]

I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots.

i think you're dismissing the validity of my push my calling me confbiased and tunneled

[skitter30]

MT makes me really uncomfortable with how hard she is townreading me for reasons I can’t find

i feel p good with mt town actually
also there's a lot of people who are townreading u p hard, why does mt ping you in particular?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

Not confident on this. I might switch to MT or Star depending on their catchups.

@Skitter, do you currently have a read on me independent of your read on Nahdia?

trying to decide if you're town who tends to townread people who give you townreads and scumreading people who don't, or if you're scum desperately trying to squash scumreads on you

[skitter30]

to be honest, after reading the defense compilation i can see the white-knighting argument, but the fact that the partner thing was pushed so strongly makes me feel like that's fabricated. like there's a disconnect between seeing something that can be pushed as scum vs pushing for the right reasoning, which i felt for that beeboy argument (even though skitter disagrees). there's also been multiple cases of defense, but i'm not sure why skitter calls out this one specifically. nahdia/raven were relatively open to being voted so i can definitely see scum doing something like this, but not really town.

i think that there is some link between nahdia and raven, by virtue of lumping themselves into the same category and defending themselves as a group (and they're both doing this).

i'm not sure if it's:
- scum/scum who feel that since the partner associative got caught out they need to vehemently deny it
- or one of them is scum and is utilizing that link to say that: 'hey, this is a non-scummy behavior. multiple people (including people that i know to be townies!) are doing this'. this is what i meant by tying themselves to one another. i currently think we live in this universe. i think nahdia has seen that raven is getting flak for similar things that they are, and is defending *both* of them together in an attempt to minimize what they're being scumread over. and i think raven likes being defended so is just taking nahdia's side and defending them back.

i'm not really sure how else to articulate what i'm seeing here, or what part you're not understanding/finding scummy

[skitter30]

felt a bit detached(?)

i agree that it's detached but i'm not sure it's anything more than being busy (it seems like they just don't super have time for this game)

[skitter30]

still think drusilla is townie
not particularly impressed with the wagon on me

[skitter30]

I feel like other people who are townreading me can point to a post and say “here’s why I thought this post was towny/here’s why it makes me think Lilith is town.” MT’s townread of me is basically “skitter thinks she’s town and she has a lot of content.” I can’t tell whether she’s actually read any of my posts and thought they were towny, which really bothers me because I feel like she’s just trying to blend in with the other people who are townreading me.

ah ok , that makes sense
but i don't think that mt's read on you has anything to do with me at all, as far as i can tell

[skitter30]

Well, I don’t see you expressing suspicion on anyone else. Are you tr everyone but me and Nahdia? Assuming we’re both town, who else do you currently sr?

people i townread: lilith, drusilla, mt, beeboy
people that are maaaaaybe townie: clover
people that are maaaaaaybe scummy: dunn, kanna, midway
people aren't townie: you, nahdia

people that i'm unsure on: starbuck, tux

[skitter30]

i'm largely unimpressed with starbuck's catchup

[skitter30]

Skitter can be there too I think, I like Skitter.

can i interest u in voting nahdia with me?

[skitter30]

Why am I not townie and again, I want just a read on me alone. Let’s imagine Nahdia isn’t in this game, how do you read me?

i realized i know your main so lowkey townie unfortunately

[skitter30]

Sure. Can you give me the run down?

-meta-wise i think this looks a lot more like thier scumgame than their towngame
- pushes are shallow
- i don't understand their read on raven or their read on me
- beeboy push was bad

[skitter30]

oh i was right on drusilla's main!
i think she's town !

[skitter30]

whoa that's a good post

[skitter30]

It feels to me like they need to block out that what skitt’s is saying is making sense in order to actually be able to scumread her-- so this pings me.

yeah this is kinda my vibe
they're both acting like i'm coming from mars when i think my conclusion/push is fairly reasonable? idk it's weird

[skitter30]

What's wrong with that though? Can she not condense and address all of her thoughts in one post? You're seemingly going after her because you don't like the way she formats.

i mean tbf this is partially why you're shading lilith ...

[skitter30]

i did not finish writing about skitter before i hit submit. i was talking about unsettlement. in mbos, skitter was pushing me for a reason i felt was... kind of strange and bad, though maybe not entirely invalid. it turns out, she was scumthere and was being opportunistic. in this instance, she is pushing me more on meta, which i actally think is, perhaps more believable. and as i have said previously, her actual content i hve townread. but in mbos i came around to thinking her content was towny too, and it was not to be...

a) reading drunk!nahdia is amusing!
b) is the main reason ur voting me rn because i formed an associative without forming an individual read on raven?

[skitter30]

Do you have any other reasons to have drusilla as such a good tr?

i guess not really? can i just chalk it up to a soulread? i'm just having a really hard time seeing scum!her post this way

[skitter30]

i think starbuck is kinda scummy
i dislike their 'timestamp' take

[skitter30]

i have looked again at midwaybear's ISO, in search of a counterwagon because i do not want to be lynched and maybe skitter isn't happening? there are parts of it i really dont like, but there is also content i look at and think "yes, i agree". but i suppose agreement a townread does not make. or, should not anyway. not alone?

if anything i think that midway is a bit of a lhf push ...

[skitter30]

There's a lot of assumption from you regarding this and I don't like it.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

oh it gets worse
@starbuck i think 941 is a townie post. i dont understand what part of it prompted you to vote him

[skitter30]

it's an easy push to make

[skitter30]

i mean, im not pushing midway. im looking for other places we could coalesce besides myself. same reason i spent some time reading drusilla. forgive me for the survival mode, but....

i mean it's an easy place to try to get people to coalesce on ... but fair wrt survival mode

and i think the meta is valid - it worked for me last time so

-

i think kanna is probably town but i disagree with most of her takes

-

Tux/Star aren't scum together with there interactions and

i agree with this ^

-

Okay, he still got into it within an hour of the thread opening and I think you're being unfair when you decided to pick apart his entrance and not really touch on anything else. It's a pointed attack and it's not a good look. Maybe it's because you're a newer player that you picked such an awful thing to case somebody on, especially because your late entry into the game makes it easy for you to pick that angle.

i really don't think tux's approach to beeboy was unfair or unreasonable given that beeboy at taht point indicated that he was reading the game (he knew that nobody had responded to his 'hi' post). i'm not sure i agree with his take, but i believe it's a real one that he actually believes

do you think he's scummy for taking this approach? do you think he's making it up? because unless the answer is 'yes' i'm not sure what you're trying to get out of this engagement

-

It's also concerning, given that you're doing it right behind lilith, that you'd point this out. I have felt a sort of tag-team between you and lilith since I started reading, but I was thinking it was because you both might have known each other for a while on site. So I'm trying to separate that from gameplay. However, there's a point when it's concerning that one or two voices seem to be constant. Either you're doing it just because you're responding or you're doing it to purposefully drown everyone else out.

a) i disagree that i'm flooding the thread (i would argue even that i'm toned down a bit in comparison to how i usually play, and i'm trying to do so further with posts like these instead of 6 multiposts since you've stated that it bothers you repeatedly)
b) i feel like i have a good sense for what lilith's scumgame is and since i think she's town here i want to work with her

[skitter30]

I’m also a bit concerned about the confidence Skitter seems to have on certain slots like Drusilla’s and some others for example. @Skittter, do you have meta on Drusilla. Why are you so confident she’s town?

Also Skitter, you seemed to change your read on me when you claimed to recognize my main. While I thought that was good, because it pointed away from you confibiasing me, you never explained how this affected your read on me. Is the reason you haven’t yet responded to my question regarding that, because you don’t think you can answer it without outing me? What about thinking you recognizing my main made you flip your read on me? If you can give some reasoning on that, it would help.

i have like two games with dru (albeit on other accounts). i already said this but i don't know why i so confidentally think she's town ... i just kinda do? like she just feels townie to me

wrt my read on you, i think that you/nahdia contains one wolf, and it hink it's more likely nahdia. i think you're probably in your town meta

[skitter30]

to answer tuxedo's earlier question on him vs starbuck, i dont really get a lot from it either way. the thought process tux lays out makes sense even if i dont buy into all of it, and starbuck's frustration meanwhile seems genuine. the one thing that read iffy to me is starbuck voting tux and then later calling it a reaction test. skitter caught that too which, bleh! we're getting to the end of the day, as she acknowledges, so it'd be cool if she could actually take some stances on people who might be today's elimination.

i dislike starbuck's push here and would potentially be open to voting her
i'm also not sure that you aren't going to be today's vote.

like i would compromise on a few other people at deadline (star, dunn) but i'm still hoping it'll be you

[skitter30]

i would reassess there, yeah

[skitter30]

the fact that you don't feel tvt to me

[skitter30]

idk what to say. that's just how i form reads sometimes, and that's how your pair feels to me rn

[skitter30]

you weren't forming reads like that in BotC!

like, when you were reading Raven and I as partners (for reasons I refuted and you accepted), fine. but now to hold onto "there's 1 scum i nthe two of you" just looks to me like you're lining up lynches. WHY is raven scum if im town? we don't feel tvt to you if you're scumreading me, obviously. but if it turns out im town and your read was therefore wrong, why should that mean you start aiming for raven?

i mean it's not like botc is a standard game of mafia or anything
(i also very strongly remember saying that i didn't think elbirn/drixx were scum together early game, but i digress)
i can pull examples of reading pairs if necessary

i didn't say i would automatically push raven. i said i would reassess there.
you're building a lot of assumptions into your current push on me using things i didn't actually say.

again: i don't think you feel tvt. i think between the two of you you're the scum and have pocketed raven. if you flip town i would reassess my read because obviously i'm going wrong as i currently think you're scum. that's not the same thing as saying i would vote out raven tomorrow, and i take issue with you saying that i'm trying to line up lynches here.

like i'm not sure what you want me to do here. if i'm wrong i'm planning on reassessing the read because obviously it was based on assumptions that were faulty. there's not yet been evidence that i'm wrong yet tho

[skitter30]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I

’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

like does this not look like a werid reaction to anybody else ... ?

[skitter30]

it was flipless, that obviously affects how teamreading is affected ?

[skitter30]

@Skitter, you seem to want your cake and eat it too here. If you honestly think this is my town meta, then you shouldn’t keep pushing this illogical narrative.

And why is Star a viable alternative wagon for you? I don’t find her scummy. Also why you were correct in your opinion on her Lillith post style thing, why didn’t you say anything when Lillith was doing the same thing to me?

i don't knwo what else you even want me to say, i'm not even pushing you right now

star's catchup is lackluster, and i rather dislike their push on tux

dunn's one townie act (i.e. voting lilith at an inauspicious time) at this point no longer outweighs the scummy things they've done

[skitter30]

star's catchup is lackluster, and i rather dislike their push on tux

also the consistent shading of lilith

[skitter30]

lilith i would switch to starbuck if we're approaching deadline and we need my vote but i would much rather nahdia

[skitter30]

How? Skitter is saying she’s tr me off of meta and still not not walking back her one scum in Nadhia/me theory in the event of a Nahdia townflip. She’s on the one hand is claiming that she would recesses if Nahdia flipped town but she has given no INDEPENDENT reason for thinking I could be scum other than that.

again, i don't think that i said that indepenantly i thought you were scum. in fact, i think i said that if i had to give a read on you indpendantly it would be low-key townie. i'm like 98% certain i know your main, and it's largely a meta read

despite that, there's a weird af associative between you two, and it strengthened after i initially called it out because you two keep defending each other and pushing back on people who push either of you. i no longer think that you're *both* scum because tying yourself to each other is p risky, but i think that you've been pocketed by nahdia and that you like being defended by her so you townread her back and defend her in turn. and nahdia is thus incentivized to keep defending you because by lumping themselves with you they have a defender and can say that other people reading them wrong since they're doing the same things that other townies are doing, right?

i feel like i've said all of this like 19000 times now and i don't know how to explain it better at this point

[skitter30]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

it depends what era you're from.
current people hate walls, older players hate spamposting, it's an eternal struggle between the two camps

[skitter30]

I think it’s very interesting that you’re sr both Nahdia and Star who aren’t tr you but not Drusilla? And what happened to Dunn aa a counter? You seemed to have dropped that entirely.

What is the difference between Nahdia/Star and Drusilla? Answer: Drusilla isn’t pushing me. That said, I strongly disagree with her Kanna read.

wut
it's not like i townread people because they're townreading me

dru not pushing you doesn't make sense as a reason to townread her? i don't even know what you're saying here

[skitter30]

I'm seeing quite the same between the two of them and it's not even my thoughts of the high density of posts which is now being misrepresented. I'm concerned that they are swapping to voting for anyone who dares say something controversial about them, even if it's just a simple "hey, there are 11 other people in the room, you should let them speak, too." I don't think this pairing off thing is typically a good move on Day 1 but there's some real buddying happening and I'm not a fan.

i think that this is a remarkably uncharitable way to view how me/lilith are interacting and it feels like an attempt to frame a mutual townread as something scummy

[skitter30]

@Skitter How do you feel about joining us on a Starbuck wagon. Also, could you see in a world where Raven/Nahdia are TvT that your logic doesn't make sense in there eyes or do you think all your points have been on point/they should have no problem with it?

yeah i'm trying to disengage but i feel like they keep dragging me back into it ... :/

i guess it's possible that there's some universe where i'm tunneled but i really don't think that's the case

wrt starbuck - like i told lilith earlier, i vastly prefer nahdia but if it collapses (you just switched yoru vote off of nahdia, right?) or my vote is needed at deadline i'd switch there

[skitter30]

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

i mean it's not like i tried to make a good-faith effort to change posting styles, which was ignored, or expressed my concern over your tuxedo vote/push, which was largely ignored, or anything

[skitter30]

I not saying it is but that is one thing that differentiates her from Nahdia and Star, correct? She has not really given any kind of read on my slot yet.

are you seriously positing that i'm townreading dru because she hasn't given a read on your slot?
i don't understand what you're even trying to say here

[skitter30]

First she reads us as partners, despite having no independent read on Raven. Then I point out the issue there, so she decides I'm WKing her. And now at the very least, we can't be TvT. She townreads Raven (though has also thrown some random shade like in 1033) but if I flip town, she'll apparently reassess Raven.

I get that you think this spat is clogging up the thread here but like, the deadline is coming and I know who I want to push down that well.

yes, i changed my mind on thinking whether or not you're svs. i settled on tvs, with you being the s. i'm not sure how any of this is inconsistent or what you're trying to imply is scummy here.
like you're implying that there's some sort of contradiction between 'scum!you wk'ing town!raven' and 'can't be tvt' when i think this ... basically restating the position in different words? like i'm not sure what the problem is or why you're acting like this is some sort of new revelation that came out of nowhere.

and yeah, if you flip town i'll need to reasses ... ? obviously i'll have been wrong in that universe. i don't presently think i'm wrong, but if the underpinning assumption of how i'm viewing the game is inaccurate obviously i'll need to take a step back to try to figure out where i went wrong. i'm also not sure why you're shading me for stating that.

i also don't want this to clog up the thread but you keep dredging it back up and saying that it's scummy when i think i've been as clear as i know how to be.

[skitter30]

skitter, talk to me about Nahdia. I know you linked her and Raven, even if I don't see it, but what else am I missing there?

- i think they're scum on meta
- series of bad, shallow takes
- dislike their push on me

[skitter30]

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

i mean it's not like i tried to make a good-faith effort to change posting styles, which was ignored, or expressed my concern over your tuxedo vote/push, which was largely ignored, or anything

starbuck did you respond to this?

[skitter30]

Now though towards the end of the day, skitts dislikes Starbuck who I am reading more the opposite way. That's what is starting to make me doubt myself. And I'm liking Nahdia's recent posting / reactions. So now im more unsure abt this wagon

What are you liking about starbuck?

[skitter30]

sorry i have a phone call, will be back soon

[skitter30]

I was more townpinged by Nahdia's hesitation to really switch to anyone as well, specifically onto midway who i think is town-- what do you find weird about it?

Also, if Nahdia is the scum in the TvS, what does Raven's reaction matter?

i'm confused. i don't think nahdia is really hestitant to switch 'to anyone as well'; they've fairly clearly indicated that they're motivated by survivalism and would push for any wagon they could get

and i'm highlighting that i think that raven is pocketed

[skitter30]

No, because it read like sarcasm and statement. Didn't seem like there was anything to respond to other than to continue to go down that rabbit hole when it was already solved.

I do appreciate you condensing, though.

- you're complaining that me and lilith are flooding the thread. i pointed out that i attempted to change posting styles to avoid annoying people, which you did not acknowledge.
- you're also complaining that people were not engaging with your catchup. i did, and explained my issues with your tuxedo push, which you failed to engage with
- i also attempted to engage with you on me/lilith, which you also didn't really respond to

so i'm not really sure if most of your complaints are valid, and if you're not going to follow-through on people trying to engage with you, a lot of what you're posting just reads as shade

[skitter30]

im gonna explain this AGAIN!

you saying 'can't be tvt' is in fact different from you saying im scum and raven is town, bc it implies that if im town, raven is scum. even though you have her as town. i understand that me being town means you've been wrong and you have to make a general reassessment. that's not the problem. the problem is it looks like you're already mapping out that reassessment before ive even flipped. you framing me and raven as not tvt suggests that you have a reason for thinking raven is scum if im town. but as far as ive read,

you don't

. THAT'S the sticking point. that in addition to the fact that you're overindexing on partner reads, which as ive pointed out, is indicative of scum mindset.

again, the not tvt read is largely cuz rn i think you're scum. if you flip town i'll reassess. i don't know how else to get this across more simply

[skitter30]

There is waaaaay too much meta talk in this game. Linking quotes from other game threads and continuing down those rabbit holes is such a damn distraction from the game at hand. It's probably why I'm struggling on the last bit of my reads. Y'all are so focused on meta, exclamation points, and such that you can't even focus what's happening here.

I want to know why in THIS GAME that someone is scum.

What bad and shallow takes?
What is disliked about their push?

I know I just read through but if you want to highlight certain posts of your ISO that address that to go back and read, that's cool.

- i don't know how to ignore meta
- their push on beeboy was bad in taht the reasoning didn't make much sense and felt disengaged from how i was viewing the thread at the time
- after they received pushback they came back with some really vapid scumreads that were undeveloped and just felt like they were throwing things out there to try look like they were forming reads 484
- i think that nahdia doesn't like my push on them and is not trying to understand what i'm saying or how i'm approaching the her/raven thing, and has been trying to reframe what i'm saying in a 'gotcha' sort of way
- i think that they're buddying raven and using her defense of them to try to get people to back down from pushing them.

[skitter30]

The defense that is oozing from both of them, when that has been brought to their attention, doesn't feel that great and is quite OMGUS-y.

again i tried to engage you on that and you never really responded so like ...

[skitter30]

i'm realizing that today is going to be a p weird/busy day and i'm not sure i'm going to be around again today
(but i should be able to check in before deadline tomorrow morning)

i vastly prefer nahdia but i think that the people i'm kinda counting on to make that vote happen are trendign towards starbuck
VOTE: starbuck

[skitter30]

clover if you switch to nahdia i'll switch back there too

[skitter30]

I much much much prefer starbuck over midway
like i don't get why the midway wagon is even happening, whereas i have some significant issues with starbuck that i feel like she is not trying to address, but is rather brushing them aside

like even what she's been doing in the past few hours - she's basically stated she's fine voting literally any of the popular wagons

[skitter30]

i mean ideally i would want nahdia but i don't know if that's necessarily viable anymore

[skitter30]

I would have gone there as well, but skitter decided to be all OMGUS when she's nowhere near elimination.

this is a remarkably biased and inaccurate framing of my vote on you

[skitter30]

midway is like the quintessential lhf deadline wagon and i'm not super into this, i don't get where it's coming from, and i think it's just like .... a easy way of the phase without resolving any of the major conflict

i don't like it and i don't want to vote there
like if i wake up tom morning and he's at l-1 and my vote is needed for a hammer i'll vote but i don't want to otherwise

[skitter30]

like even what she's been doing in the past few hours - she's basically stated she's fine voting literally any of the popular wagons

I said I'd like to sort you and Nahdia because that resolution feels most important today. If it's Nahdia, cool. If it's you, cool.

But all y'all switched to me, so that resolution looks like it's not going to happen.

I'm sure as hell not voting for myself.

i mean i think you basically being ok with either me or nahdia is scummy

[skitter30]

What part of midway sticking to Dunnstral all game makes you want to defend him?

i honestly have approximately no idea what midway's reads are but this just feels like a compromise wagon that isn't going to really help resolve anything

[skitter30]

tux is really townie, in case that wasn't obvious
i'm also losing my dru townread a bit

pedit yes exactly

[skitter30]

so a deadline wagon on midway as a counterwagon to starbuck?

yeah exactly

[skitter30]

i don't even know why he's being wagoned

and it doesn't resolve any of the me/you/star/lilith/raven mess ...

[skitter30]

it's okay skitter i understand i wanted to continue our tradition of executing each other day 1 too

indeed!
i didn't even realize it was a tradition at this point !

[skitter30]

¶

Votecount 1.23

[5] midwaybear:

Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi, Nahdia

[3] Starbuck:

Tuxedo Mask, skitter30, lilith2013

[2] skitter30:

Kanna, Raven Branwen

[1] Dunnstral:

midwaybear

[2] Not Voting:

drusilla, Morning Tweet

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section. Joint mod iso.

@dunnstral

I think it was starbuck who mentioned this, but it’s a good point that a skitter/nahdia flip is good to resolve

I'm fine with one or the other. Given skitter's severe overreaction, I'd much rather that elimination.



Midway, we aren't getting Dunn today. Please pick one of Nahdia or skitter. Either or. We need to figure out this 1v1.

like this post and the following posts. i'm not sure when she became really passionate about the skitter/nahdia thing and she seemed to focus on the "resolving" point more when i said it.

p-edit: aaaaaa VOTE: Starbuck

and then how she randomly was like 'oh yeah mid or dunn would be good too ... '

[skitter30]

i too am a werewolf and i am fairly certain lunacy is a town of werewolves.

was anyone in a pt with starbuck and/or lilith?

Fuck it. I am too. I wasnt in a pt with either, and thought star was like opposing scum ... felt p awful when she flipped because i thought i just voted out my unknown partner

And i had pegged lilith as actually being town but she wasnt. Lilith and star p obviously didnt know each other's alignment, with how they were acting yesterfay.

Also i think i figured out the flavor finally

A vt/townie is flavored as a ww

And the people who are flavored as town are actually the mafia/scum. Eventually realized that the town wincon wasnt in the op and hectic wont tell me it., and wouldnt answer some of my questions trying to pin it down

Also apparently for the purposes of my wincon i think that star had the same wincon as me.

[skitter30]

There's one persom who i think slipped having actual town flavor too

[skitter30]

I'm in a pt with someone else tho, so maybe we're neighbors? Idk

[skitter30]

god dammit hectic.

awoo.

also i feel so damn vindicated lol

[skitter30]

Oh yeah maybe we are. Maybe i shouldnt have said that. I actually dont know. We're both ww's tho.

Man yesterfay's associatives and motivations are majorly fucked up

[skitter30]

I'm in a pt with someone else tho, so maybe we're neighbors? Idk

do you have a reason to assume you aren't masons?

I thought i was a 2man scumteam who couldnt kill. It was bizarre

[skitter30]

Ok i gotta bounce but i'll be back later today. Everyone might as well claim ww/not ww flavor, but i suspect not ww flavor is actually scum so they'll prob just claim ww too but eh doesnt hurt

[skitter30]

i had a theory going that like, maybe there were multiple werewolf teams and we would alternate who had the nightkill?

We were told explicitly we didmt have an nk in our pt ok really gotta bounce, nahdia i wanna commiserate with you later about how we deathtunneled each other

[skitter30]

Can everyone claim if they have ww flavor or not, and if they're paired or not?

I think that would help a lot

[skitter30]

yes absolutely.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

I was so sure you werent acting townie ... and then after star flipped i started wondering if perhaps the reason so many people were off is cuz we all thouggt we were scum

[skitter30]

Same

[skitter30]

There's one persom who i think slipped having actual town flavor too

who?

Wanna let everyone check in first.

So the question becomes if we're masons or not ... ?

[skitter30]

I think nahdia selfed, or at least tried to
I feel so damn vindicated after that day1

I was under the impression in my ot that we were of the same alignment, and i'm p sure on play they thought we were aligned together. They would have responded differently to some things that were said in the pt if they didnt think we were aligned.

The game seems weird if there's 5 masonries tho?

Also i'm just going to note that the non-ww wincon is being deliberately hidden from us so we dont even know what we're trying to do ...

[skitter30]

I guess my current guess is that two of the pairs are just pairs of non-ww's

[skitter30]

ARGH! MY PLAN!

I told Nahdia how I planned to approach the day if everyone was Wolves. So now it won't work. Unless there isn't a Mafia chat or something.

uh so you admit that you are mafia?

They claimed to be paired.

I guess my current guess is that two of the pairs are just pairs of non-ww's

so 4 scum?

I guess setup wise yes but i'm not sure i actually sr tux, if that makes sense

[skitter30]

I wanna know how people feel about Raven/Nahdia now that Nahdia is outted. It looks pretty bad to me

...

[skitter30]

both related to special setup mechanics. Maybe the setup not having special mechanics is changing how he opens -- Obviously that doesn't change how he did stand out as townie in those games but it makes me wonder

I thought mt slipped here thinking mechanics/flavor was not unusual

[skitter30]

I wanna know how people feel about Raven/Nahdia now that Nahdia is outted. It looks pretty bad to me

...

Wait Skitter don't look at me like that please I would've flipped with you I promise

People were scumreading me so hard day1 for saying this ...

[skitter30]

Yeah i dont think its relevant anymore but that's what i thought at the time

[skitter30]

Ngl for large portions of day1 i was wondering if everyone was scum cuz everyone was so scummy ....

Pedit yeah i think he's townie too. I wont vote my partner here ever either

[skitter30]

I'm fine with just voting nahdia here but i dont want the day to end until everyone checks in

[skitter30]

I can find a decent reason to believe every single player is a wolf except for Raven now. Oops

Shes my partner

She's town (ww, whatever), i'd bet the game on it

That's partly why yesterday became such a mess because a throwaway line ended up being a 20p fight where i was going out of my way trying to give a firm sr on her while still pushing nahdia

[skitter30]

drusilla - clover ebi
nahdia - tuxedo mask
morning tweet - kanna
dunnstral - beeboy
skitter - raven branwen
midwaybear

yes?

Who were star and lilith paired with, then. Couldnt be each other ...

[skitter30]

Everyone betting their partner is a WW sure is great (^:

I'm very confident she thought we were aligned together

[skitter30]

Ah... I get it.
Tuxedo is scum and they were paired with the 2 dead players not each other.

Ah. Ok.

[skitter30]

Who were star and lilith paired with, then. Couldnt be each other ...

mafia i am assuming who then claimed eachother. that's why i asked.

Big oof and maybe lilith claimed to her partner too ...

[skitter30]

Nahdia/midway dont make sense together based on eod

[skitter30]

Raven is ww

[skitter30]

And mid only makes sense with nahdia if they didnt know mid was aligned with them

I'm currently partial to the tux/nahdia theory

[skitter30]

Raven is ww

Why?

pedit: Mid is playing like a WW

She absolutely believed we were a bizarro 2man scum team in our pt and thay we were aligned together

[skitter30]

Raven is ww

Why?

pedit: Mid is playing like a WW

She absolutely believed we were a bizarro 2man scum team in our pt and thay we were aligned together

Like she very very obviously really believed it

[skitter30]

I absolutely refused to commit to a raven sr no matter what configuration of raven/nahdia i was pushing
(Which nahdia was right to call me out on)

[skitter30]

I think bee/dunn are town

[skitter30]

I think bee/dunn are town

I am a werewolf don't make me morph on you.

Ww i meant obvs

[skitter30]

nahdia, although you are caught scum, i am enjoying the posts you are currently making

i'm basically at:
- me and raven are town
- kanna and mt are town
- dunn and beeboy are town

nahdia is scum

(by town i mean ww's, and by scum i mean whatever faction nahdia is part of)

and then the rest are in clover/tux/midway/dru by poe, with tux being my priority tom

i've only kinda been skimming so i don't feel entirely informed what the argument with clover/tux has been

[skitter30]

I don't think you understand that both me and Drusilla

can you walk me through why you think this?

[skitter30]

pretty much same. like i said as soon as BotC ended i was like "and skitter outs a meta read on me in 3... 2..." cause i knew i was struggling to be as engaged. i actually started to worry you WERE a wolf with me just in like, a different partnership. i was thinking about ways i could try to subtly soft werewolf.

also i just want to say that i think i can read you off of meta now

[skitter30]

ya

[skitter30]

skit·ter /ˈskidər/ verb move lightly and quickly or hurriedly. "the girls skittered up the stairs" draw (bait) jerkily across the surface of the water as a technique in fishing.

[skitter30]

I don't believe beeboy and Dunnstral are this unaware, but Skitter says I'm wrong so I'm still probably gonna lynch Tux

?

[skitter30]

Tone change from yesterday to now is not AI

?

The game feels so much more ... normal now?
like it felt bizarre yesterday and i was coming to the conclusion that there were multiple scum pairs because so many people/things felt off

and now it just feels like a normal game of mafia