Mini Theme 2145: The Weakest Link Game over

[Raya36]

I thought you believed scum had something to mess with the quiz?

What Spring, Raya and I were going over towards the start of the day was scum had a 1-shot Tamper in order to prevent town from chain getting successful groups. By having more then 1 tamper it becomes stacked against town since 2 guaranteed failures combined with the low odds of getting an all town group makes the mechanic too scum sided.


By running it back if it fails we know the group has scum because they shouldn't have 2 tampers.
Or the group succeeds, we gain the power role + random conf town (the one who gains the PR).

Or scum was in the 1st group. Which is why i think spring is scum still.

I honestly don't think so because they would have known who was getting the chain and the no kill suggests they targeted the BP. Just a theory though I guess

[Raya36]

Why did you decline the quiz?

Because I think your scum and would rather see you lynched.

I thought you believed scum had something to mess with the quiz?

What Spring, Raya and I were going over towards the start of the day was scum had a 1-shot Tamper in order to prevent town from chain getting successful groups. By having more then 1 tamper it becomes stacked against town since 2 guaranteed failures combined with the low odds of getting an all town group makes the mechanic too scum sided.


By running it back if it fails we know the group has scum because they shouldn't have 2 tampers.
Or the group succeeds, we gain the power role + random conf town (the one who gains the PR).

Or scum was in the 1st group. Which is why i think spring is scum still.

I honestly don't think so because they would have known who was getting the chain and the no kill suggests they targeted the BP. Just a theory though I guess

Scum either shot unwnd (would clear scum in theory but the failed attempt still lingers), there is a role that protected someone, or scum didn't shot.
I'm leaning on the second option.

Oh the possibility of a protective role completely slipped my mind

[Raya36]

Also for the team I'm happiest with a team that doesnt include Midway, TSE (because then we would have to give him the chain and then midway would get it), ND, or Spring.

I'd be happiest seeing Unwnd, Farside, Bee (if Unwnd wants to use his role for that), PB, StarBuck.

[Raya36]

oh wow. Now unwnd has fallen prey to the group think. Why are my actions "fundamentally" scummy? Can you give me actual reasons like Raya did, so I have something to refute?
Also, Raya, I don't think my reads are that noncommittal.

Its not your reads as a whole. It's just the way you say them. Like if they didnt work out right away you'd have room to change.

[Raya36]

Bruh is having weak reads really scum-indicative? Maybe I'm actually uncertain. Why else do you SR me?
pedit: can you pull up some examples where I did that? I'll try to explain what I was thinking.

I'll respond to this tonight when I have my laptop. don't let me forget

Also for the team I'm happiest with a team that doesnt include Midway, TSE (because then we would have to give him the chain and then midway would get it), ND, or Spring.

I'd be happiest seeing Unwnd, Farside, Bee (if Unwnd wants to use his role for that), PB, StarBuck.

Are you like brain dead?

Assuming I get chosen for the team.
Midway is already dead and flipped.
When they flip Town you vote me as Chain Leader.
Simple.
Do it or your scum.

I'm fine with you on the quiz. But then we need to give you the chain which means you'll immediately give it to midway. Unless you've changed your mind on that and will let us put midway in the bottom 2.

actually she seems townie now...
I'm still semi-confident that scum is in this pool of six(five)
{Titus, raya, farside, dunn, ND}. I don't really think Pink Ball is likely to be scum anymore because of the reaction test. I disagree with farside that it felt fake. Also, his feelings about being pressured to solve seem legit.

I seem townie now or is that referring to someone else?

[Raya36]

Mod: Do all town, regardless of role, pass a quiz by PMing you?

Yes.

Am I reading into this too much or does this answer go directly against Bee's claim?

[Raya36]

Bruh is having weak reads really scum-indicative? Maybe I'm actually uncertain. Why else do you SR me?
pedit: can you pull up some examples where I did that? I'll try to explain what I was thinking.

If you think unwnd is poor scum, then shouldn't you have been happy cuz you caught scum. I agree that

the outburst was pretty weird.

@midwaybear
Do you have any reads?

I think

beeboy and Starbuck could both be town.

The disagreement just may be in the way they play the game and not because one's actions were scum motivated.

I'm

a bit wary of TSE and unwnd

, but I'm not confident in anything yet.

I log on and I see there are 8 new posts, but they are all from you.
pedit: I can

sorta see it being town motivated idk

. Does seem a bit over the top though, but that's like you this game

farside, unwnd, tse, starbuck all give me doubts.[/b] And then I can't give it to PB or Cakez who I think are town(mostly Cakez). NDMath has posted way too little, and not that much substance. I can see myself giving it to Dunn or beeboy then. I like Dunnstral's posts because he seems critical of things others were saying, and veered away from sheeping, so VOTE: Dunnstral

i guess unwnd can change beeboy's quiz once, but that doesn't seem that useful.
I prefer keeping cakez
TSE is

probably

scum now

Unfortunate that mafia got a JOAT...

I wanted to say that ABR is the scummiest player, but his anger feels genuine

and I agree that we definitely did not use the mechanics in our favor yesterday. I agree with ND that we should decide the quiz team

after not before

passing the chain. ABR is still on my radar of suspicion though.
I also disagree with the Raya scumreads. I think a lot of people have been saying that she makes the "safe" reads which I don't exactly agree with. She was townreading Cakez before he became obv town, and I can't really see any necessarily "safe" reads.

when you vote someone for chain leader, they become BP. Scum know this. They did NOT try to kill unwnd.

Unless there was no scum in the neighborhood but it failed because ____? Power roles

Is it really likely there's a PR that allows scum to fail a quiz without even having to be on it? That seems to overpowered to me because not only does it gain scum an advantage but it also causes a lot of town confusion and makes us believe someone on the quiz is scum.

I'm honestly gonna just go with scum is on the quiz

I like this quote because some people(like Dunnstral and beeboy) were trying to suggest that scum were outside the quiz team. That's super unlikely, and suggesting that seems more scum motivated than town motivated.

@Pink Ball. Yesterday, you said that I was scum upon a SirCakez scum flip.
Also, we don't really know that beeboy is town, so I do not really support him on the quiz team. unwnd is safely conf town though.
I think the quiz team should be me, unwnd, farside, Raya

argh, I can see both sides here.

I feel like scum gambited, but then again unwnd was an obvious nk choice...

I don't really have a read on you.

ABR was at best an anti town distraction and at worst, scum.

You haven't really made me reconsider.

I bolded all the spots that came across as non-committal to me.

[Raya36]

actually she seems townie now...
I'm still semi-confident that scum is in this pool of six(five)
{Titus, raya, farside, dunn, ND}. I don't really think Pink Ball is likely to be scum anymore because of the reaction test. I disagree with farside that it felt fake. Also, his feelings about being pressured to solve seem legit.

I seem townie now or is that referring to someone else?

Midway, I don't think you responded to this

[Raya36]

2439 is valid, I think 2420 is a misleading question; Titus is asking if all town pass the quiz through the process by pming, not if all town can pass the quiz by pming

Ok that makes more sense. Misinterpretation

[Raya36]

My theory, shall it be accepted, is that spring is scum. ABR was loud, vocal, and wrong. Scum wanted him alive and had Spring do it because they feared that ABR would be left out due to toxicity, thus losing a townbeard.

Let's see who ABR suspected.

Dunnstral
Cakez
Pinkball
Raya
TSE

that was my team.
TSE is a stubborn guy but that doesn't change his role card.

This is a team I will approve.

I don't care if I have to deny 3 times, if you put forward a dealbreaker team then it's no deal and no quiz tonight.

There should be at least one scum in here, if my theory holds. My eyes jump to Dunn and SirCakez.

I don't like these posts. This doesn't feel like real analysis.

Can you elaborate on this please? I'm honestly liking Titus for town now

[Raya36]

Spoiler: Raya

If you think unwnd is poor scum, then shouldn't you have been happy cuz you caught scum. I agree that

the outburst was pretty weird

.

This is just me agreeing with Cakez that TSE was overreacting. I don't really see how it reads like hedging.

I think beeboy and Starbuck could both be town

. The disagreement just may be in the way they play the game and not because one's actions were scum motivated.

What did you want me to say? Yeah it was a "weak" read, but it was also less than 200 posts into the game.

I'm a bit wary of TSE and unwnd, but I'm not confident in anything yet.

I legit said "I'm not confident in anything yet". You can't force reads out of someone. When I first read the argument, and I felt that TSE was overreacting, but perhaps there was something that unwnd did that made him so frustrated. Now when I reread it, it's funny

I log on and I see there are 8 new posts, but they are all from you.
pedit:

I can sorta see it being town motivated idk

. Does seem a bit over the top though, but that's like you this game

TSE had just quoted something from a scum player in one of his previous games. I actually thought the quote could potentially come from town which shows the disconnect between TSE and the rest of the game. This was more of an on the spot reaction, and the wishy washyness was probably because I knew it came from scum but I thought it could also come from town.

farside, unwnd, tse, starbuck all give me doubts

I'm guessing this is what you wanted in bold. I had the chain at that moment. I originally wanted to pass it to Starbuck, but after rereading I found that both starbuck/farside and unwnd/TSE gave me doubts because I wasn't sure if theirr arguments were TvT.

i guess unwnd can change beeboy's quiz once, but that doesn't seem that useful.
I prefer keeping cakez

TSE is probably scum now

I said this because it was pretty clear unwnd and cakez both were town. I originally thought unwnd/TSE was w/v which is why I said TSE was probably scum. I don't think so anymore because this seems to be meta.

I wanted to say that ABR is the scummiest player, but his anger feels genuine

and I agree that we definitely did not use the mechanics in our favor yesterday. I agree with ND that we should decide the quiz team

after not

before passing the chain. ABR is still on my radar of suspicion though.

Yeah, I see where this comes across as non-committal because I say that he is scummy, but that his anger felt genuine. I mean that was just my thought about him, and I ultimately still SR him. I don't see how the second bolded part is relevant.

argh, I can see both sides here.

I feel like scum gambited, but then again unwnd was an obvious nk choice...

Not sure what you wanted to see here. I still don't know whether scum gambited with a no kill or that they just were off-team. I'm leaning towards gambit just because I still don't really like Dunn/you/farside.

I don't really have a read on you.

ABR was at best an anti town distraction and at worst, scum

. You haven't really made me reconsider.

I said ABR was super anti-town, and I honestly couldn't really read it. He was almost to the point of openwolving, and I don't think scum are that obvious.

Besides having a problem with these statements being non-committal (which I still think most are), my next problem is if you were town you should be taking a stance whether you're confident or not. If you're town you want to put pressure on people to get a read on them. Saying such non-committal statements won't get that reaction and therefore won't gain you as much info.

[Raya36]

unwnd (5)- unwnd >beeboy>Raya36>farside22>Starbuck

Chainless:(7)- Titus, Dunnstral Pink Ball, , NDmath, TrueSoulEnergy, midwaybear,

OK. SO now that the quiz has been denied we can have three options.

1) A quiz team of 4 from the chainless
2) A quiz team of 2 who are chained, and 2 who are not.
3) Run back 2 of the same people from the last quiz, along with 2 new ones.

Me personally, I don't want to run back the same people if that's not evident. This makes Dunn and Spring not eligible for the first option. For option 1, I assume most people would agree with Me, Beeboy, xx, xx. For the second option, those eligible would be Pink Ball, TrueSoulEnergy, midwaybear and Titus. The problem with the second option is that two of those players were already denied, so I doubt that anyone would agree to option number 2. Option 3 is feasible, but I will only agree to the terms based on consensus.

I'm ok with 2 or 3. 1 isn't a good idea. Those who are chainless are chainless for a reason. I do not want NDMath, Midway or Spring in the team. I'd prefer no TSE but I would still accept.

[Raya36]

Just ask who approves of: you+beeboy+x+y

Then select 2 people you think are the likeliest town.
Making town fail past the second team on the ground that no consensus can be reached on the members is scum motivated.

Because the quiz auto fail, and a power up goes to scum.

I do not approve of Beeboy. I forgot to add him to my list of no.

[Raya36]

The problem with running me+beeboy is that I cannot guarantee the other two people will simply pass, and then beeboy is never allowed to be on the quiz again. Beeboy is a slot scum

wants

to keep around. This is my problem just going with me+Beeboy because then you have a giant hole and scum has more room to sneak in when it's going to count more. This is the time to be risky and be willing to make a mistake.

I'm scared that if we happen to have an all town team then scum could roleblock you and then Beeboy fails the quiz. I think it was Beeboy who mentioned this? The joat could be a roleblocker

[Raya36]

I just realized 2 and 3 sort of intertwine, given that 2 of the chained were on the last quiz and 2 of them were not. The only people who aren't chained right now are Dunn/Spring (from last quiz).

Would still like thoughts.

To summarize (I can find any relevant long posts)

*long post on how easy it is to turn 1 successful group to a game with only successes by picking the same people over and over*
*long post on how a 1 shot tamper makes that fair for scum, 2 tampers is too strong*
*long post on how you being shot despite being BP could imply the above was used*

By using the same people we know scum can''t have 2 tampers so 2 fails = scum in the group.
Or scum is forced to hit pass for us and we win the power role, either outcome is $$$$$

I'm stupid and spell a quiz team out for me with this in mind. I don't really want Dunn or Spring, I think I would like to see them down the chain more.

Unwnd, Farside, Starbuck, Raya.
Assuming your town and we ignore Dunn and Spring this is the only group that fits my strat within your requirements.

I honestly think this is a team that passes the quest.

[Raya36]

Replace farside with pink ball

No. Maybe starbuck but not Farside

[Raya36]

Approve Quiz Team

[Raya36]

replace farside with ND then
im town, so are Raya and ND. unwnd is conf town

So I'm town...

But I chose Unwnd since I think he's town and we would gain a lot more info from him than we would giving it to Beeboy who was the alternative option.

What do you mean by this? Was his reaction EOD not enough to convince you he’s town?

Anyways, Raya is making me reconsider, so the only person I’m comfortable “recycling” would be farside. Remaining 3 can be me, unwnd, ND.

Then I'm possibly scum...

ok, I see why those might ping your scum radar. That is a problem for me.
I think Raya is scum, so I'll try to pull up some quotes. Also, isn't it also good to find townreads too? I gave some earlier and we can talk about that.

Then I am scum...

actually she seems townie now...
I'm still semi-confident that scum is in this pool of six(five)
{Titus, raya, farside, dunn, ND}. I don't really think Pink Ball is likely to be scum anymore because of the reaction test. I disagree with farside that it felt fake. Also, his feelings about being pressured to solve seem legit.

Then when you go to make a case on me you can't and say I'm town.


Can you explain the progression here because from my POV this is what I can assume

[Raya36]

I'm very confident this team passes. And if it doesn't I trust our PoE to figure out who scum is between the 4 of us

[Raya36]

The problem with running me+beeboy is that I cannot guarantee the other two people will simply pass, and then beeboy is never allowed to be on the quiz again. Beeboy is a slot scum

wants

to keep around. This is my problem just going with me+Beeboy because then you have a giant hole and scum has more room to sneak in when it's going to count more. This is the time to be risky and be willing to make a mistake.

I'm scared that if we happen to have an all town team then scum could roleblock you and then Beeboy fails the quiz. I think it was Beeboy who mentioned this? The joat could be a roleblocker

This is why

[Raya36]

Beeboy and Unwnd being on a failed quiz together gives us no info because it could mean one of:

1. Scum was on the team and failed it
2. The team was all town and the joat was a roleblocker and Unwnd was roleblocked

[Raya36]

Having beeboy+Unwnd just adds another variable which means we actually can't say for sure that scum was on the team. I get that 1/2 is better than 1/4 but we just can't use the 1/2 if we don't know that scum was on the team for sure. Also if you look at it from my perspective it's still 1/2 for me. I know I'm town and I'm confident unwnd is town. My PoE would just be farside and StarBuck

[Raya36]

Ok my bad. It was starbuck not beeboy who said it

[Raya36]

The problem with running me+beeboy is that I cannot guarantee the other two people will simply pass, and then beeboy is never allowed to be on the quiz again. Beeboy is a slot scum

wants

to keep around. This is my problem just going with me+Beeboy because then you have a giant hole and scum has more room to sneak in when it's going to count more. This is the time to be risky and be willing to make a mistake.

I'm scared that if we happen to have an all town team then scum could roleblock you and then Beeboy fails the quiz. I think it was Beeboy who mentioned this? The joat could be a roleblocker

I thought an RB just blocks a night action in the game, I didn't think about a vote.

If we put Bee in the team then get Unwnd to make his vote a pass. Then Unwnd gets roleblocked. Beeboy fails

[Raya36]

What if it doesnt fail lol

Then I get blamed for the day 1 quiz

I don't think about it like that. If it fails that could mean scum tampered the first time. It says nothing about you. Only the people on the team

[Raya36]

Im sensing fear amoung scum here.
If everyone recalls spring had the idea that if scum even allowed the quiz to go through it confirms a town member now she is worried about being framed for it.
I think no one ahould or would instanta town read the group suggested.
Saying that is a fallacy.

This is a good point to keep in mind

[Raya36]

NDMath has 18 posts. I am definitely OK with him being at the bottom of the chain.

Yes sir
On another note, I really don't want beeboy to die. He's the guy keeping us together.

When was BeeBoy dying suggested?

[Raya36]

I want Titus and spring as the last two, and me cutting the cord

I'd rather not Titus and someone knew should be the second last on the chain.

[Raya36]

new*

[Raya36]

@Raya, what made you change your ABR scum read?

A lot of my read was based on sporadic behavior but that honestly isn't unlike him from what I've seen. While he was playing quite aggressively I never got the feeling from him that he was pushing for mislynches. I don't think he was really going after highly scumread players. It seemed he was forming his own reads instead of going for some easier potential mislynches. I'm also concerned about how he seemed to be an overall consensus scumread which points towards scum also pushing for him. I think he was just going to be a mislynch. He was also very vocal about his reads which I wouldn't expect from highly scumread scum since that gives more info on a flip

[Raya36]

my next problem is if you were town you should be taking a stance whether you're confident or not. If you're town you want to put pressure on people to get a read on them. Saying such non-committal statements won't get that reaction and therefore won't gain you as much info.

How is this even alignment indicative?! That’s more of a play style thing.

Is that actually your playstyle though or is it just how you're acting this game since you're scum? If it's your playstyle can you link me to some of your town games that you do this in

[Raya36]

So the first thing I notice in your town game is that about 200 posts in you say you scumread 3 people whereas here all your reads are non-committal and not confident. 250 or so posts in you state your 3 scumreads and you give reasoning for all. Very different than your play here still. You had a decently large case about 700 posts in. You were making confident statements about players being scum. I'm actually not seeing any of the unconfident reads you're giving in this game. Also your posts were much longer and more solvey.


In your scum game:
You definitely do take more confident stances than you do here. But in the spoiler I put all of the quotes I found that resemble your non-committal play here.

Spoiler:

"I can see why there's momentum gathering toward him, and I am now suspicious of him"
"Big Chief has the potential to be really helpful, but I'm really split."
" I have a suspicion about DK, so I guess I'll trust DK for now?"
"While this normally would be suspicious, clidd's arguments made sense."
"Normally inactivity is a sign of mafia, but I don't really get a mafia type feeling."
"Also, votato seems a bit opportunistic"
"I think Knightmare has been pretty suspicious recently. I don't know what to think of it because he seemed like a locktown early game..."
"I don't really like the way clidd posts sometimes, but that's sorta harsh."

"readlist
townlean-DK,knightmare
null town-votato
null-freddie
null scum-Lil Singham
scumlean-spring"
(my point being no hard scum)

"knightmare started more cautiously which I like. One thing I didn't like was how he basically associated himself with Baezu"
"I liked his early day contribution and what he thought of everyone else. Although some of the points he made were bad"

"Spoiler: my thoughts about knight,votato"
This one is kinda long but basically it explains all the TvS/TvT/SvS interaction possibilities

"I get a weird feeling from your slot"
"Idk I never really liked freddie, but I know he is new. I don't really want to give him a pass though because we are in lylo"

[Raya36]

If anyone else feels like skimming his iso in those two games just to make sure I'm not tunneling and seeing what I want to see that would be great

[Raya36]

I'm seeing that too Titus, I just like meta to back it up sometimes

[Raya36]

Proposed quiz is me, farside, Unwnd, Starbuck under the plan to run it back again but with Unwnd who is almost for sure town.

I think it's Titus, Dunnstral, Pink Ball, TrueSoulEnergy, midwaybear who are chainless

[Raya36]

Right, and spring

[Raya36]

Can we leave midway for bottom 2?

[Raya36]

Can we leave midway for bottom 2?

stop tunneling. I already responded to your argument about my "wishy washy" reads.

I disagree and still think the meta-check supports you being scum this game

[Raya36]

Happy birthday TSE

[Raya36]

I think the chain should go Spring-Pinkball-TSE-Titus/Midway

I wish spring could have been bottom two but that's not possible anymore. TSE can decide because I feel that would give everyone a more clear read on him whereas we already let PB decide before. Titus is in the bottom two mainly by PoE (I don't want PB or TSE there) but I am also a tiny bit concerned with Titus saying over and over again how they're going to die and stuff like that. He seems overly concerned about getting the chain. Which is really throwing me off because everything else is making me think he's town. Obviously I want midway lynched

[Raya36]

I know spring wants Titus/PB as the bottom two though so idk how likely it is she'll change her mind and give the chain to PB

[Raya36]

I agree with Titus that she's probably doomed, and I don't think that's bad. It's good actually. Really good.

Do you think it's AI that she keeps repeating that she's doomed?

[Raya36]

Wasn't somebody else doing the 'I'm doomed' routine in this game earlier?

Not that I can remember?

[Raya36]

Vote: midwaybear

This is scum

[Raya36]

Obviously I want midway lynched

This is scum

[Raya36]

So it's just TSE, PB, and Titus left

And I don't even want any of them lynched

[Raya36]

At least TSE gets to decide like I wanted

[Raya36]

Tomorrow we need to be more organized with the chain. The problem is we leave all the scummiest players to the end and they make scummy decisions

[Raya36]

Wasn't somebody else doing the 'I'm doomed' routine in this game earlier?

+1

At least TSE gets to decide like I wanted

On the plus side, I think it might help my read on him and the flips are going to help reads on others. Hell, I'm getting a lot from how this chain has been passed today. In all actuality, despite the chance of losing PB, we stand to learn a ton through this day.

Yeah, the chain passing certainly says more about a player than a regular vote would but I'm still not happy with the bottom 2

If midway actually is town I think spring just buddied him so she would get the bottom 2 she wanted

[Raya36]

Tomorrow we need to be more organized with the chain. The problem is we leave all the scummiest players to the end and they make scummy decisions

You put scummy people in the middle or beginning it's the same results.

Yeah I guess you're right ://

[Raya36]

Alright that sounds good enough to me

[Raya36]

I'm quite confident no matter who is chosen there will be a town flip

[Raya36]

I'll be real if we keep reading into the clap I'll say it.
I didn't clap in my confirmation, I just said I read the rules.

[Raya36]

Good game everyone and thank you for nodding Maria.

In case nobody saw from the dead thread I did check farside and got that she didn't fail the quiz. My role allowed me to select a player and see if they passed or failed the quiz. I chose Starbuck the next quiz and planned to roleclaim and give my results the next day