Mini Theme 2145: The Weakest Link Game over

[NDMath]

Shouldn't we be controlling who that second-to-last person is?
Because if scum is third-to-last, controlling it means they don't get a chance to save a buddy, when that is a position where scum is highly likely to select a buddy.

[NDMath]

I townread TSE/BeeBoy/Dunn.

Pinkball tunnelling on Sircakez and Raya is interesting?
Not a huge fan of the way Sircakez ended mechanical discussion.
My top townreads are the same as raya's, so either they're apparent or raya has a Town mindset. I'd assume apparent.

[NDMath]

FoS Counter

midwaybear (3) - Raya, Beeboy, NDMath

Dunnstral (1) -

Farside

Albert (1) -

Farside

Pink Ball (1) -

Albert

SirCakez (1) -

NDMath

[NDMath]

NDMath are you Chess from the MU mash?
Or do you have no idea what I am talking about lmao.

Ty fam =)

I know him more or less. I'm not him though.

[NDMath]

bruh, I need to work on getting townread easier. Why TR TSE? His posting has been weird and I don't think the images are particularly towny.

I toneread his images as townie.
Checked his iso and that's the extent of the read. It's still early though.

[NDMath]

If I town read someone I'm gonna town read them. It doesn't matter if it comes off as 'safe' or if that person doesn't think they should be town read.

I townread TSE/BeeBoy/Dunn.

Pinkball tunnelling on Sircakez and Raya is interesting?
Not a huge fan of the way Sircakez ended mechanical discussion.
My top townreads are the same as raya's, so either they're apparent or raya has a Town mindset. I'd assume apparent.

Im really torn about you right now.
Can you tell me why you think pink is tunneling or why it's interesting? I consider tunneling more then a few post and this is early game chat.
Can't say I'm a fan of buddy up to raya.

I said tunnelling because he was more or less chanting while being serious.
It's interesting because it's unusual but I felt they were making a couple valid points.

bruh, I need to work on getting townread easier. Why TR TSE? His posting has been weird and I don't think the images are particularly towny.

I toneread his images as townie.
Checked his iso and that's the extent of the read. It's still early though.

Nvm you already answered that. Can you explain why the images are townie if possible?

I'm probably biased to townread images.
I liked how they fit context and felt natural. Basically just tone.

So someone tell me, those 9 posts of severe overreaction at the top of this page is a town TSE? Or no? Because good lord.

I think so. I agree with his point about shading coming from scum, and those posts were regarding his frustration around that and umwnd. It also just looks like a lot because he spread it across 9 posts when most people would put something similar in 2-3.

I though Unwnd seemed town

I’d completely disagree.
What makes you read them as Town?
Their posts are just shade. That’s it.

I think our disagreement is that his posts were shade. I get that his post about you is hard to defend to because it wasn't specific but your posts were more or less just fluff and images at that point. I feel the same only I don't think its AI so not worth posting about.

What I found town was his post about NDMath. I was having similar thoughts about that post and also a little suspicious of it once someone pointed out he seemed to be budding me. Only thing I didn't agree with is that a town read on you is safe.

Budding's part of my play style. Though I wasn't trying to with that post.

Post your lynch pool guys.

unwnd, sircakez, starbuck, midway

@beeboy btw I'm not chess. Just know him somewhat.

[NDMath]

Budding's part of my play style. Though I wasn't trying to with that post.

Buddying is part of your town playstyle or do you mean scum?

Play style. I'm generally more concerned about my townreads not being hung than my scumreads being hung. It's also easier for me to gage whether I'm alienating myself from the thread or not when there's someone who townreads me enough to change their read in such a case.

As chain leader, I'd like the following:
- nominate your towniest read atm.
- nominate your scummiest read atm.
Please, thanks.

Opposite of midway...
T: TSE
S: unwnd

Honestly, I don't think spring not passing the chain is too big of an issue atm.

If they spend have the day not passing the chain or proposing a group, everyone else is going to have to make a mildly rushed decision is the only concern I see.

[NDMath]

Deny Quiz

My opinion is that we should wait to decide quiz until we have only 3-4 people unchained so we don't have unnatural hangproofs.

Pleasant surprise to finish reading.
I'm passing to TSE once I confirm quiz wasn't hammered.
Since I question who else will pass to him and I don't want him in bottom two.

If something was directed at me say it again since I missed/forgot it.

[NDMath]

@NDMath pass it to farside/starbuck who can pass it to the other. We can't lynch them today.

If I am gone someone ensure this happens.

I am ensuring that happens for you.
VOTE: farside

[NDMath]

I believe the claim. I don't see what was wrong with it beyond weird phrasing.
Utility wise, if they use it tonight and quiz fails we have a pool of four people instead of five where we know scum exists.

If sircakez is town, which he seems to be considering he's defending unwnd more than anyone else and that's not what scum would/should be doing in his position, I need to hit the reset button on my reads.

[NDMath]

Would that suggest the order in which they pass the quiz matters or something like that?

[NDMath]

That would make no sense given that a least one chain leader is BP during that night/day. I wouldn't be surprised if the mod created a day vig or will be having a day vig ability as a prize at some point.

Hmm, what? These two sentences aren't contradictory.

The BP serves as protection against potential maf kill.

The prerequisite conditions are :
- previous chain-leader is not scum
- the quiz team is selected correctly
- the quiz team decides correctly

A potential vig is, as far as I can tell, obtained via quiz.

The prerequisite conditions are :
- the selecting chain-leader is not scum
- the quiz team is selected correctly
- no tempering of the quiz via pr

What you are suggesting, if I understand correctly, is that NK/DK from mafia would be counterbalanced by vig.
BUT the conditions to obtain a vig are too hard to correctly accomplish against pre-existing NK/DK, so it does not balance out.

But if you consider that NK/DK are both obtained via the same mechanism for scum, or town, then it balances out perfectly.

Unwnd should definitely be on the quiz team, I don't see how that is debatable.
-If town this is good.
-If scum he'll be able to put a buddy on anyway.
And considering the chainleader was selected to lead town not be tested.


My biggest scumread is Albert. I don't see town asking for an entirely new group since then it'll just fail to a different scum. And overall his attitude about the game doesn't come off as natural.
Of the people on the quiz I scumread starbuck, but that read isn't really compatible with the Albert one.

[NDMath]

I don't see why we would assume that information is definitive when the reward for passing the quiz is so absurdly powerful (conf town + power role), it definitely feels like pass/fail takes priority over the information behind who is in the team from a game design point of view. Are you all just assuming MariaR, the list mod whose been dedicated to this game for years wouldn't realize the quiz creates conf town?

The thought process being it sure would be unreasonable if scum could tamper with this is incredibly wack to me. It makes perfect sense given town can tamper with scums ability to fail the quiz... :/

I edited my post to account for your criticism. I stand by everything in this post, the reward for passing the quiz is nuts, by passing the quiz a singular time we win the game.


conf town group of 5.
lynch + kill on conf town

quiz group of 4 (still conf town)
lynch + kill on conf town

quiz group of 3 (still conf town)


The game is just won on the back of a successful quiz group round 1 since we create conf towns and power roles all game? What part of this do you guys not see.

Okay, I hadn't thought that through. Then it's just wifom as to if scum was on the quiz or not?

Didn't you argue this couldn't be the case when you were arguing unwnd was town though, or am I misunderstanding something?

I’m pretty busy and have no clue if I have the chain.
If I do.

VOTE: Midwaybear

Lol you.

[NDMath]

Accept Quiz Team

I agree with the above post about TSE.
Pinkball should be town especially with their eod 1.

Now that I've proposed a team, I want everyone to tell me who I should proxy my vote on tonight.

I think you should save it but I definitely understand using it on me.

The night isn't long. What if NDMath fails to even PM the mod

If I ever claim to do something like that, know with certainty that I'm scum.

[NDMath]

I went to go read NDMath in ISO to see if I can't get a better feel for him and dude only has 14 posts in the game out of 80 something pages now. That's blowing my mind.

Anyways, some questions and observations for you, ND, if you would be so kind:

I townread TSE/BeeBoy/Dunn.

Have these reads changed any? If so, why?

TSE less so right now with how confident he is of his scum team theory which makes little sense to me and that he keeps dragging it out while not even keeping up with the game enough to know whether or not he has the chain.

I appreciated your response to me RE: TSE and his spam in 305. You were one of the only people to answer that question for me and helped put me on the path to keeping TSE at null/leaning town for the most part, so far. I'm trying not to get caught up thinking he's scum due to his playstyle being quite abrasive, even though he's screaming my name from the rooftops now.

In that same post, you quoted ABR asking for a lynch pool and you listed - "unwnd, sircakez, starbuck, midway." Can you give your reasons for who you listed then, if that list has changed, and why?

Day 1 TSE was my top town read and I was understanding his vision of the game better then, which was a factor of unwnd and sircakez. I also hadn't like either of their tones, and they had been my scum reads of the group. Cakez became townie when he was at bottom 2, and unwnd's claim is a rather bold claim for scum. Midway I've never seen much of a reason to townread. I scumread a couple of your early catch ups and was uneasy about you being on the quiz team.

You voted to deny yesterday's quiz based on.....

My opinion is that we should wait to decide quiz until we have only 3-4 people unchained so we don't have unnatural hangproofs.

You obviously don't feel the same today because you already voted to approve. Did that change because you're on the quiz team or for other reasons?

I gave up on that since chain leader has full control at that point and I wouldn't be able to change unwnd's mind at that point. In addition I like this team more than the first.

I do think you following with the plan, and giving the chain to farside, gives you town points. You could have just done whatever you wanted, but you acted on behalf of the greater good.

I believe the claim. I don't see what was wrong with it beyond weird phrasing.

It's interesting because you put Unwnd in your lynch pool, but then came out believing his claim. There's been quite a bit of questioning surrounding his claim from those I view as town and those I view as scum. What was it about it that made you think he was genuine?

The majority of the questioning was from the weird phrasing. Looking past that it's a bold scum claim since it mechanically narrows the number of people on a quiz.

Moving onto Day 2....

My biggest scumread is Albert. I don't see town asking for an entirely new group since then it'll just fail to a different scum. And overall his attitude about the game doesn't come off as natural.
Of the people on the quiz I scumread starbuck, but that read isn't really compatible with the Albert one.

Albert was no where mentioned in your posts on Day 1. Why the sudden change? I'm not so worried about me, as you mentioned me above, and I hope you give insight to your reads.

I first scumread him for the weird exchange where he got the chain from spring, at which time there wasn't much point in expressing the read. Titus is null for me currently.

If I ever claim to do something like that, know with certainty that I'm scum.

I appreciate this.

A thing to note.
Farside and Starbuck refuse to interact with each other in an actual interaction.

What are you talking about? I was interacting with farside all Day yesterday and last night in the Quiz PT, and it's time that I interact with those that I don't read as town.

You guys we’re both in quiz PT?

You can't be this disconnected

I'm doubting my TSE read now since I don't get why he's so confident on both starbuck and farside after being wrong day 1 and then not really knowing what happened.

[NDMath]

Chain Order 2.1

unwnd

(5)

- unwnd >beeboy>Raya36>farside22>Starbuck

Chainless:

(7)

- Titus, Dunnstral Pink Ball, , NDmath, TrueSoulEnergy, midwaybear,

Quiz Team 2.1

Purposed Team

(4)

-

unwnd, NDmath, Pink Ball, TrueSoulEnergy

Approve

(5)

- TrueSoulEnergy, Raya36, NDmath, Titus, unwnd

Decline

(5)

- beeboy, farside22, springlullaby, midwaybear, Starbuck

Not voting:

(2)

- Dunnstral Pink Ball, ,

Deadline is in: (expired on 2020-06-18 00:17:43)

I would prefer bottom three of titus/midway/tse with Dunn as the 'true leader' (whatever that term was for pink ball yesterday).
TSE in there so that midway is an option.

Midway/TSE might be w/w here.
The way TSE is overly sure of midway!Town and planning to immediately pass him the chain makes sense as w/w, as it would block out a scum hang and it's blatantcy aims to deter us from thinking two wolves would interact like that.
They are also both proposing teams that were entirely on the first quiz with little rational, which supports the theory that all scum were off quiz and they have a 1-shot manipulative ability.

[NDMath]

Why do you scumread me?

Probably group think.
There isn't much I consider townie in your posts. The Albert to you to Dunn chain pass yesterday but then specifically focusing on Dunn to me, I don't really understand. I've already stated that your TSE interaction is looking w/w. Making a scum team entirely out of quiz 1 people, especially not including spring, looks crazy for you to actually believe. Your 'desperation' to be on the quiz today also looked bad.

[NDMath]

Mod: Do all town, regardless of role, pass a quiz by PMing you?

Yes.

Am I reading into this too much or does this answer go directly against Bee's claim?

Reading into it too hard.

[NDMath]

I think pink ball is a good choice. He’s been under the radar, but he doesn’t feel scummy(Nd)

Good job, you've finally got a firm scum read.

Approve quiz team

Let's see this go through. Another deny is proscum IMO.

I don't get why the chainleaders keep saying denying is Proscum? There's nothing to back that up, and info can be gathered for late game from split approve/denies.

What if it doesnt fail lol

Then I get blamed for the day 1 quiz

This makes me want to deny because I definitely see it happening if this quiz fails.
Though I townread Raya+Farside and feel this team does probably pass.

Gonna hold onto my vote since if I'm deciding vote I suddenly become relevant.

[NDMath]

He’s passing it to Dunnstral
If not, he’s giving it to Pink Ball
Mark my words

You are so smart.

I wanted NDMath dead because if this was somehow negligence then the slot that is least active by a large margin gains massive scum equity.
So NDMath is just always scum. Either by quiz 1 being all scum or by being the one most likely to not submit a kill / see a thread update.

That is a bs reason to scumread me.

Which of Pinkball and Dunn are gonna be our chain decider so I can pass to the other?

[NDMath]

VOTE: Dunnstrall
Pinkball gets to be the decider again.

[NDMath]

I'm inclined to believe Raya had a 'clear' night 1 because they surprised by the quiz failing. There first readlist had everyone as town besides spring. I'm inclined to believe their 'clear' was farside because of this post and that they passed the chain to farside day 2.

I'd like to see the quiz group made up of these players:

PB
Unwnd
Farside
TSE
Myself or Dunn

I would assume we can not put today's hang into the group.

[NDMath]

Farside is town? Wow!

I am equally amazed.

I assume it checks if a person sabotaged.

[NDMath]

It's a more natural reaction the more people you know didn't sabotage.

[NDMath]

It indicates they townread farside more than SB or Dunn in addition to the chain pass.

[NDMath]

@Mod What happens if we lynch one of the 3 players in the list today? And can mafia choose to nokill tonight?

A third will be put in by random draw. And no they may not.

Forced kill is interesting. Especially if we were to get two mafia in that pool.

Pb: you need to pass the chain and I'm pushing players to tell me whom they are going to chain. Would you chain sb?
Nd: who would you chain and who do you want hurt/bottom 2?

HURT: Spring, TSE, Starbuck
Swap spring with midway if we hang spring first.
I would pass the chain to someone on the quiz team. Outside of that Beeboy/Dunn.

[NDMath]

Confirming that I am best friends with Dunn.

Decline Quiz Team

Should be swapped for farside-dunn-me

HURT: Midway, TSE, Starbuck
Poe Pool is these three and the neighborhood, and it makes sense to resolve the neighborhood first.

[NDMath]

Approve Quiz Team

VOTE: unwnd
(Midway-TSE-Spring)

@unwnd hold onto the chain until quiz team reaches majority approval.

[NDMath]

NDMath, help meee

I'd say pass TSE the chain and then pat yourself on the back for a chain well passed.

Spring/pinkball should be t/s because of the neighborhood.
Spring/starbuck should be t/s because of n1 quiz + interaction.

So it's a good hang regardless of flip.

[NDMath]

No redactions.

Shout out clidd for ruining the super-analytical team.

Was fun. We probably would of lost if unwnd hadn't saved himself day 1.

Can we learn what the quiz prizes would have been if the game would have lasted longer?

[NDMath]

thanks!
Dunn, why did you claim best friends?

We had each passed to each other, and townread eachother.
If he was hung I was very likely to be hung next.
Added bonus it gave us immediate control of the quiz.