Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Train Cop

[Not Known 15]

Let`s discuss quests: My opinion:

No one should do quests.

The drawbacks are too severe. In the worst case, the item might even go to scum on top of a townie being 0-xp`d. I see no pro-town way to use the quest mechanics. If someone does, please tell us.

[Not Known 15]

I have tried to come up with a good train cop strategy but everything seems flawed on second look.
VOTE: Disable Strongman
While there may not be many protectives upon us disabling this could be crucial to prevent mafia from targeting someone special without fear of failure.
The neighbourizing is idiotic. It even spends 1 xp, and we need to let players get xp because there is something blocking a lynch and its likely a pacifist(for that, look at XP Mafia I).

[Not Known 15]

By the way, the Quest mech is visibly a parralel to the neighbors mech.

Why do you think Quest is not a pro-town mechanic?

Why IS a mechanic giving mafia
-access to an xp-eating roleblock
-potentially access to 1 free xp when they are chosen leader

pro town if all what happens is that someone gets an item of the leader`s choice?
It MIGHT be protown on Night 1 because theres only 1 xp that can be lost anyways, on second look.
It will be NOT protown later when everyone has potentially more xp, and it can really hurt the town if key roles (such as the NU role who prevents us from lynching) have no xp.

[Not Known 15]

HURT: springlullaby
Enough of this BS.

[Not Known 15]

@NK15 is this vote because springlullaby irritated you or do you have an AI read on her?

They are either overconfident and rude town or powerwolfing scum. The second is a real possibility, and that one is higher than default, so yes, I have a scumread on them. A weak one. If we had access to lynch, which we sadly don`t, a lynch would be highly recommended because them being alive is heavily anti-town.
And about questing: Town should not want that sabotage being around at Night 2+ because losing all stored xp is... too bad at that point. I can get behind the reasoning for a day 1/night 1 quest but after that, the potential damage is just too big.

[Not Known 15]

Being mechanically minded and the fact that she was so involved in the previous game, it is unlikely that she forgot that training can't take place at the same time as an action. If it were someone who wasn't much into mechanics, this would be a reasonable excuse as they may have genuinely just not paid attention the previous game. Mastina is a master mind, however, and very cognizant of the mechanical details.

There were changes, however. The mafia kill was not listed as a bonus action, publicly, at the start of the game.

[Not Known 15]

Yes, but the rule was the same. We just have added clarification here.

From XP1:

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside

any action

.

Additionally, Mastina was a part of the scum team so was aware even if the public wasn't. And the post I quoted from before indicates that she was:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped.

I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

That was more than two years ago... Do you remember all things from two years ago? I see the possibility of it being faked but it isn`t big enough to be scum indicative.

[Not Known 15]

Was the scum kill a bonus action in the previous XP mafia, or just an action? Misreading what a bonus action is could explain the issue if it didn't exist in the past, but this is still a good point to make about mastina.

@Pine, i think you are the authority here when talking about mastina, is that AI for her?

It was usable with any action except train, but it was NOT called a bonus action. Again, it`s several years past. If it is a mistake, it is more likely - more, not very - to come from town. But there is still a chance that it was faked, so.... it averages that one to null for me

[Not Known 15]

For the record- I have joined the quest.

[Not Known 15]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

It will give a false guilty on a town autofarmer, though... and Mafia can choose to risk outing someone even if they have people outside.

[Not Known 15]

so, yeah. Any train cop strategies have a potential miller problem, and bussing makes any results inconclusive. Another good reason to go for Disable Strongman.

[Not Known 15]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

I don't think they would show up as "Training" for the Train Cop then.

and that means town autofarmers produce false guilties.

[Not Known 15]

So I think I came up with a game-breaking Train Cop strategy.

No Capture Version
7 players go on the quest
We decided publically who will be the leader. The leader is free to use any action they choose.
The other 6 questers Train
Each of the 6 non-questers is assigned to Train cop one of the (non-leader) questers.

Capture Version
7 players go on the quest including the captured player.
The leader is decided publically and is free to use any action they choose.
The other 5 questers Train
Each of the 6 non-questers is assigned to Train cop the 6 non-captured questers including the leader. (Alternatively one of the questers remains unassigned)

In this way, mafia can't join the quest without being forced to Train! So at least one mafia will have to remain outside of the quest in order to do the kill. And the others inside the quest will not be able to use their abilities! So mafia has to decide to either A) be a part of the quest or B) use their abilities.

What if mafia is assigned to train cop the mafia inside the quest so they're free to do what they want

Indeed, but that's not the primary goal. The primary goal is forcing mafia to have to either use their ability/kill OR be inside the quest, not both.

Like even if they aren't assigned to their partner, they can still use their ability and simply say that the person they were assigned to trained.

Oh I see, we can't account for that, but it's less likely than is that they'll be assigned to their partner.

What I like about this is that if there is a kill, we know ~100% that it was one of the people outside of the quest that did it. (~accept for the potential of mafia being assigned to their partner)

It sounds nice, however there are several potential problems with it

1) If the 3 scum decide to join the quest, they will have lylo-equivalent voting power for the leader, making it more likely for the leader to be mafia, resulting in a catastrophical failure because they would get xp, gift, and free reins on the kill. The kill part is solved in the captured version, since the captured player cannot strongman (which i assume it would bypass the roleblock by capture?) today for a lack of xp. I also assume that mafia do not start with more than 1 xp. I'm not sure how much i would place my faith in

"Each player starts with 1 XP unless otherwise specified, and players can never have less than 0 XP. Players are always aware of how much XP they have.

"

but... probably they start with 1 xp, or at least most of them do.

2) Any mafia outside of the quest can kill freely and claim that the player assigned to them trained, even if town. There is no valid way to be sure all mafia are placed on the quest, so how do we know what happened? This is also not considering the possibility that mafia outside is assigned to check mafia inside, which would be a really bad result to trust later on.

I think the risk for disaster is too high compared to the benefit. Effort put into mechbreaking the setup is still town points to me though - i don't think scum would try that much to validate a train cop strategy

-Farkran

... and some players cannot afford to train cop because they have a role like pacifist... then we have town autofarmers... if they are suspected we have a false guilty...

[Not Known 15]

.... and a mafia rolestopper/roleblocker could increase the mess even more... the more I think about it the more loopholes for mafia I find...

[Not Known 15]

Setup Specific Rules:

Each player in this game will have a certain amount of XP. XP can be gained by some night actions, and can be spent to power abilities. Each player starts with 1 XP unless otherwise specified, and players can never have less than 0 XP. Players are always aware of how much XP they have.

Sabotaged players are not directly informed that they were sabotaged.

By the way, while i was writing my latest post, i just noticed the contradiction in these mechanics. I asked the mod if players would get an XP report at day start, but he didn't answer, so… i think they don't. They just know how much XP they have at any given time.

However, since the mod also assumes that players wouldn't know if they have been sabotaged or not, i think there is more than one way to lose xp at night.

-Farkran

Last game had a roleblocker that removed xp from training players.

[Not Known 15]

It also contain a scumslip as I did not know scum had a PT.

?????????????????????????

[Not Known 15]

It also contain a scumslip as I did not know scum had a PT.

?????????????????????????

Did you know scum had daychat?

Yes.

[Not Known 15]

15. All private topics have daytalk. Any private topics are welcome to request a Discord server.

[Not Known 15]

15. All private topics have daytalk. Any private topics are welcome to request a Discord server.

It doesn't indicate that scum has a daychat PT.

It says that all PT`s have daytalk.
Mafia have a scum PT in approximately 99% of all games.

[Not Known 15]

Huh? Wouldn't we want scum to bus?

NK15 could you clarify this? Hectic and Farkset I'm heading off for now, be back in a bit

We want to eliminate ALL scum. If bussing causes us to make wrong assumptions that will cost us the game then no, we don`t want scum to bus.

[Not Known 15]

Going through stuff I hadn't read yet.

Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Not Known 15
Ame
Raya36

Could you go over these reads?

Pretty good.

Anyway.

VOTE: Ginngie

This was funny

We want to eliminate ALL scum. If bussing causes us to make wrong assumptions that will cost us the game then no, we don`t want scum to bus.

Why are you assuming that we would treat the busser as cleared? If that were the case scum should just bus every game and ride the credit to end game.


I find the points that Conchord brought up convincing.

Yes. However, my comment was related to a plan, and that plan stood on assuming that if a mafia was caught not training it would mean that the scum is within the rest of the 4 people. Something that could lead to 3 mislynches if that caught scum - who was under suspicion anyways - just jumped under the bus to create a false impression...

[Not Known 15]

^This is really bad.

No, it`s not. Don`t disable lurkers.

[Not Known 15]

So I've been thinking about this and I think it's best I claim. When I die, I become a treestump and the lynch mechanic activates. I've been trying to play in a way so as to draw the night kill, but with two claims now and seeing as FOC's, in particular, suggests a strong PR, I think that's probably not happening. So I'm claiming now to suggest that perhaps vig can aim for me tonight? I think there may be another way to activate the mechanic also because it says it will activate when I die

unless

it's already activated.

Are you insane? Do you want scum to auto - win by roleblocking you without end?

Do NOT join the quest, at least.

[Not Known 15]

Am I accused of spamming? I do not spam because I post content.

I am also forced to defend myself against all the bullshit Fakscum is spewing.

You're both spamming, but at least he isn't being unnecessarily hostile. Hence why I'm happy with my vote - win lose or draw, removing one or both of you D1 is positive for this game's health.

But that`s the problem... we actually can`t remove them entirely... the capture does not lynch them...

[Not Known 15]

HURT: Farkset
The motivation does indeed seem to be hidden here. Probably scum?
Also, the leader on the quest should be me, because I am town.

[Not Known 15]

@Spring @FoC @NK could you address the discrepancies Farkran pointed out regarding your progression? Basically, can you walk us through your thought processes?

There are no discrepancies. About you: Train can be roleblocked. If mafia has a roleblocker they can prevent your role from being upgraded, forever.
About Farkset/springlullaby: Both exhibit questionable behaviour. BOTH. It is extremely likely that they are not town together. There`s a good case against Farkran though, based on what they said not matching what they said later.... about their motivations...
For these reasons, I am obviously not ok with spring being leader.

Leader:Ame

[Not Known 15]

Time to look back on springlullaby and Farkran:
Springlullaby:

^ Dumb.

We are settling the quest thing now.
We do it, I'm the leader.
Profit.

Trying to push through things like this is never going to be frictionless. Why should town do it that way? It increases conflicts meaninglessly...

Pine, why are you voting me? I found two scums already.

Would town really act like this? Have you ever seen an argument like this coming from town - that you found two supposed scum when it`s early on day 1 and they don`t have said they agreed with you???

HURT: Springlullaby
Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.

Also WHY ARE YOU STILL VOTING NEIGHBORIZER???!!!
Why scum WHYYYYY?

If they think that hectic is scum ... why are they acting like this?

^Day 1 is a no brainer for quest, it is totally protown:
- Low XP pool
- Low accuracy for sabotage

Risk/Reward is win for town.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU VOTE ME THE MOST AWESOME LEADER ON EARTH

Exaggerated BS yelling.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

Actually you are right. I misread.

FAKECLAIM!

If you are so focused on getting xp for your role you don`t misread.

<subliminal interlude>

FARK IS SCUM

</subliminal interlude>

^

Translate: I lie and am ad hominem and make bullshit cases but want immunity on flip because spring is gonna flip blue.

<chorus>

Farkscum bell, Farkscum bell
Farkscum all the way
Oh! what scum it is to ride
In a scummity scum open sleigh,
Hey!

</end chorus>

And then it begins. I will not quote the rest but there is much bullshit spam from this point naming farkran "farkscum" without really going much into specifics. But there is absolutely no scumhunt attempt behind it. It looks like they actually want to make this a 1v1 but for which ends? Let`s go to Farkran now...


Farkran:


The reason I switched to there are Ame`s posts:

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Nope. It's literally what you said:

1) distance themselves by

having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby

2) those who are

siding against her

(and the majority) are

pushing a very easy lhf

3) those who are

siding with her

will be

pocketing her

hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think

we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

The difference between post 553 and 656 is extreme

and points to scum forgetting their precise motivations.

Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince

him

in the first place (291 + 384).

Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):

I think it's more likely to flip red though.

(1)

My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,

(2)

a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,

(3)

and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

1

This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.

2

This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.

3

As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.

So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.

So, what does this all mean?
This post will clear it all up:

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

This doesn`t sound hostile at all. Spring almost instantly retracted the claim "in 1 xp" even if the rules wouldn`t forbid it(1 xp from the beginning->you need 1 more xp...), though; extremely out of character for what spring is trying to emulate(would they really re-check based on that flimsy claim without any added reasoning, "that they don`t believe it"?
But if Farkran

told them to retract that in their scumchat

...
That`s right. No one of them has to hold back because there WILL be a scum flip at the end. This is staged.

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

[Not Known 15]

Please refer to the bolded in green from my past post.
NK characterizes me very strongly.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp c)using the bonus xp?

The sabotage may be targeted at the quest leader. It will not prevent any of those things.

Thanks.

Quest Protocol

Synopsis:

After mod clarification, I put forward the following protocol to be followed in order to maneuver the quest mechanic.

Objective:

I. Maximize town's chance of getting a special item every night and using it.
II. Minimize mafia's impact in that process.
III. Use the quest mechanism as an investigative device.

Steps:

1. Everyday, all alive player shall pledge participation to the quest in thread.
> All town players must participate to the quest because it minimizes mafia's impact on leader choice, and diminishes chances of successful sabotage.

2. Everyday, a leader is choosen by town in the day thread.
> Streamline process and avoid messy night discussion during shorter deadline.
> The first leader shall be me, by virtue of me coming up with the idea

and being generally super awesome

.
> At night, the leader shall be privilege target of town PR's protection, at town PR's discretion.

3. Every night, the quest leader shall choose at his own discretion, a person to grant the special item upon.
> This choice is not made public beforehand because of the sabotage mechanic.
> The choice is made public the day after, as a soft investigative device via accountability.

If no objection is put forward

, we shall proceed.

Please confirm that you have pm'd the mod for quest participation in thread.

QUEST LIST DAY 1

Confirmed:

springlullaby

Waiting (lame or scum):

mastina
Pink Ball
Raya36
Pine
Ginngie
Lady Chloe
momo
Flight of the Conchords (secret hydra)
Not Known 15
Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Hectic
Ame

Leader:

springlullaby

There are also multiple instances of me exchanging with others in this thread and discussing the plan, actively asking for input. I will let you verify by yourself.

The mischaracterization is egregious.

Mischaracterization... there is no mischaracterization. You claim you were expecting this not to go well? Really? THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT? To increase the noise? To let others drown the thread with NAI arguments?
You have never stopped pushing for yourself as leader for the N1 quest.
You have not pushed for quests forever because it doesn`t impact what you want, at least not greatly. Yet you still have not ceased to push yourself as leader for Night 1. Your claim was BS - you need more xp, according to yourself.

Enough. This is more evidence that they are scum.

Now, if you look at what`s green... you will see the obvious bullshit they are trying. They are trying to look like something but overexaggerate it too much. What sane town would characterize naming themselves awesome as a reason for something.... cooperative...

[Not Known 15]

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

Simple... because of what Ame found you looked - and look - very scummy. And because I initially thought that probably only one of you was scum, the impression that you probably wanted to give. To resolve that, I took my time to re-read what you both said and found out that it is very likely that you two are scum.

[Not Known 15]

HURT: Springlullaby

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Springlullaby
Time to get rid of the next scum. If correct, lynch the mastina - slot.

[Not Known 15]

Unfortunate Pine. What is gold exactly?

A macguffin which would have made us all bulletproof. Now it’s not a thing because I’m a dumb.

VOTE: Spring

VOTE: Springlullaby
Time to get rid of the next scum. If correct, lynch the mastina - slot.

Do both of you really believe that day 1 was a full on scum theatre between SL and farkset?

Read this:1050



The associative is the following: Who coached/made them to do exactly that(push each other like that)?
Mastina is the most likely answer(they did it last game, and they had to read it... maybe they thought "lets do that again but not involve me"?).

[Not Known 15]

Did you read the FOTC flip? Everyone got one xp today.

I didn't consider that. That makes this statement quite odd then:

I need 2 xp btw, kthanks.

It makes perfect sense if they

lost 1xp due to capture

, though.

[Not Known 15]

Did you read the FOTC flip? Everyone got one xp today.

I didn't consider that. That makes this statement quite odd then:

I need 2 xp btw, kthanks.

It makes perfect sense if they

lost 1xp due to capture

, though.

Although nothing they said about their role and xp makes sense when combined, except them lying to us. Can we lynch this? It has at least 1xp so it can kill tonight.

[Not Known 15]

NK can you do a reread of Spring and Fark in ISO together? I don't think Spring is scum. Her reasoning comes from a place that I don't think scum would be able to simulate. A recent example in particular is 1311. This is the type of theory that I only think comes from genuine confirmation bias.

Spring, I went into your meta some and found that this persona isn't your standard and that you are actually capable of posting normally and politely. Why did you choose this persona this game? I find your abrasiveness and rudeness very unenjoyable and ask that you stop.

No, it can be faked. You said it yourself- they are not like usual. Lying about the own role is scum indicative and anti-town. The interactions with Farkran point to SVS. Disrupting the town is anti-town. If you have a

scummy antitown player

, lynch them ASAP.

[Not Known 15]

NK, I'd rather lynch scum than an anti-town player. I'll case why I believe Spring to be town later.

Please do, because I don`t see it.

[Not Known 15]

How do scum win by roleblocking her? You seriously thought that this was a possibility in the game?

The last xp mafia had such a possibility - the pacifist, if claimed, and roleblocked every night, would not have been able to upgrade which would have enabled lynch only at the time the people could enable vig for 4xp - and that one applied for mafia, too.... and would have forced a town on town vigging.
Luckily this wasn`t possible this time, with Ame getting the xp too fast for Mafia to stop them(not exactly a shining moment of anti-massclaim mechanics, but good for us).

[Not Known 15]

What do you think of NK's Spring + Fark + Mastina theory?

I think I completely missed it. Looks like a poor job from them considering they're the strongest players in the playerlist. Maybe perhaps spring gave up when mastina was force-replaced. Though, still see spring as town due to her voyeur claim

Spring lied about xp requirements. They may have lied about other parts their role, too.

[Not Known 15]

I think she cleared up that she meant that she needed one more xp than she already had, not that she needed only 1 xp. And that's what I understood in the first place so what momo did was scummy lol

Did spring admit to lie about the 1 xp upgrade?

Well, today, spring asked for 2 xp. With 1 xp from the Town Lord and 1 xp as a base... thats 4 xp.... and does not add up under any circumstances. And they have never addressed that... which means they are scum.

[Not Known 15]

Raven, how much xp do you need to upgrade?

[Not Known 15]

And how much xp do you have?

[Not Known 15]

Raven, how much xp do you need to upgrade?

4 XP. Oh and why are you voting me? Same question to Pine.

I`ll answer this when you say me how much xp you currently have.

[Not Known 15]

And how much xp do you have?

2. Can you answer the same questions you’re asking me? I’m curious because I don’t understand why you’d first vote me, then ask me that? If you mislynch me, I obviously won’t be able to either use my current ability nor can I upgrade, so seems like an odd question coming from a slot that’s currently voting me.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

Actually you are right. I misread.

I need 2 xp btw, kthanks.

Also... post 1050

[Not Known 15]

Are you still leader, @Ame,? because with instincts like yours, you should probably be again.

I'm not sure if we're doing the quest. @everyone yay or nay? I personally don't think it's worth it. The item last night, btw, granted the player a double vote for the day. I gave it to FotC.

No way. No quest. This reward when compared to the risk is

abysmal

.

[Not Known 15]

Like look at that post. Without reading it I know it's a great post. Will I read it? No, but that doesn't make it a bad post. I'ts a great post Ame good job

You

won`t read it?

? Why? It isn`t a wallpost.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Raya

[Not Known 15]

9 HOURS left until the day ends. VOTE: Knightmare

[Not Known 15]

The two people who are in my list of potential scum are Raven Branven and Raya. Raven because of the spring associatives with the flipped scum, Raya because they have been very defensive.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Lightning Rod Let`s force the scummiest players to be the LR... after all we disabled strongman for good.

[Not Known 15]

hmmm that claim change by alisae is also suspect...

[Not Known 15]

@NK

[D5] SpringRaven ~= Farkset: 246 is a TMI read from Kerset. He knows Spring is town and so was failing to attribute his play to mafia. @NK

Was it? Don`t forget: Scum vs scum indicates some trickery going on anyways, and with Mastina being part of the scumteam... it might have been staged.

[Not Known 15]

Also Hectic is the last scum. Die evil mario.

VOTE: Hectic

Where is this coming from?

[Not Known 15]

Role Name: Vanilla Townie
Abilities and Cost: None
Actions during each phase:Train Night 2
Anything else relevant:Forgot to train Night 1

XP
Starting XP (from your role PM):1
XP at the end of D1:1
XP at the end of Quest 1:1
XP at the end of N1:2
XP at the end of D2:2
XP at the end of N2:3
Current XP:3

XP needed to upgrade:4
Have you upgraded (yes/no):no

[Not Known 15]

My role is kinda complicated

I'm Town Cleric (hence post 1509) and it kinda works like this:

At the cost of 3 xp, I can make a list of players. If someone from outside this list tries to kill someone inside the list, I'll stop the kill

I trained both nights and upgraded D2: apparently I get to know who I protected now

So scum didn’t no kill then. I understand your confidence in both Raya and Alisae town now. If you stopped N2 kill, then that obviously clears Raya and I do believe Alisae upgraded, But a blocked NK confitowns Raya.

You can read, right?
They said that they trained both nights and upgraded.

[Not Known 15]

My role is kinda complicated

I'm Town Cleric (hence post 1509) and it kinda works like this:

At the cost of 3 xp, I can make a list of players. If someone from outside this list tries to kill someone inside the list, I'll stop the kill

I trained both nights and upgraded D2: apparently I get to know who I protected now

So scum didn’t no kill then. I understand your confidence in both Raya and Alisae town now. If you stopped N2 kill, then that obviously clears Raya and I do believe Alisae upgraded, But a blocked NK confitowns Raya.

You can read, right?
They said that they trained both nights and upgraded.

Raya claimed to gift Ame with 1 XP and I received a “miscellaneous” result, with gave me 1 XP, so who isn’t reading? Not me.

sorry that wasn`t clear enough: It was directed at the stopped N2 kill that couldn`t have happened.

[Not Known 15]

Unfortunate Pine. What is gold exactly?

A macguffin which would have made us all bulletproof. Now it’s not a thing because I’m a dumb.

VOTE: Spring

VOTE: Springlullaby

Time to get rid of the next scum. If correct, lynch the mastina - slot.

Do both of you really believe that day 1 was a full on scum theatre between SL and farkset?

VOTE: NotKnown15

He knows I’ll flip town and he’s set it up, that Knight is clear after my flip.

I never claimed that Knight would be clear after a town flip. Only that they were very suspicious after a scum flip.

That`s something entirely different.

[Not Known 15]

I agree we should probably get rid of everyone claiming to have forgotten to train

Yeah but I haven`t upgraded yet. It`s a 4 xp upgrade so it could be something good or even alignment confirming.

[Not Known 15]

It's gonna be a thunderdome between you and Gina then

You mean the empty slot?

[Not Known 15]

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

1. Because I knew what would happen if I did(what currently happens).
2.I thought about the quest Night 1 and ... didn`t think about that I had to do something despite being VT.
3.I need 1 xp. And even if I`d need 2: Pokerus gives the remaining mafia more xp when they train. That`s bad.
4. I don`t townhunt(except for mechanics). Plus that argument is BS. Calling someone a jester sounds so strange that it may very well be made up for that purpose.
5. When you put them under pressure they gave you a detailed wall of text. Do you see walls like that anywhere else in their ISO?
6.Ginngie has a lot of fluff. Mildly suspicious. I didnt see anything suspicious on TSE so far. The slot has two missed trainings though.. although on second thought they are a VT claim... and that was part of my problem. Momo/Alisae... the lie bothers me. Scummy. Nothing else stands out.

[Not Known 15]

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Unfortunate Pine. What is gold exactly?

A macguffin which would have made us all bulletproof. Now it’s not a thing because I’m a dumb.

VOTE: Spring

VOTE: Springlullaby

Time to get rid of the next scum. If correct, lynch the mastina - slot.

Do both of you really believe that day 1 was a full on scum theatre between SL and farkset?

VOTE: NotKnown15

He knows I’ll flip town and he’s set it up, that Knight is clear after my flip.

I never claimed that Knight would be clear after a town flip. Only that they were very suspicious after a scum flip.

That`s something entirely different.

Let’s not forget this either, because yeah, that’s clearly totally different.

It IS. I don`t clear people anyways except for mechanical reasons.

[Not Known 15]

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

[Not Known 15]

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

1. Because I knew what would happen if I did(what currently happens).
2.I thought about the quest Night 1 and ... didn`t think about that I had to do something despite being VT.
3.I need 1 xp. And even if I`d need 2: Pokerus gives the remaining mafia more xp when they train. That`s bad.
4. I don`t townhunt(except for mechanics). Plus that argument is BS. Calling someone a jester sounds so strange that it may very well be made up for that purpose.
5. When you put them under pressure they gave you a detailed wall of text. Do you see walls like that anywhere else in their ISO?
6.Ginngie has a lot of fluff. Mildly suspicious. I didnt see anything suspicious on TSE so far. The slot has two missed trainings though.. although on second thought they are a VT claim... and that was part of my problem. Momo/Alisae... the lie bothers me. Scummy. Nothing else stands out.

1. Ginnie claimed right away and we didn't push him. Why didn't you claim when I was pushing him for forgetting? The town response would have been something like "Actually to be fair, Ame, I forgot too."
2. My thing is you were very cognizant about the mechanics and whatnot during the day. I can understand Ginnie forgetting because Ginnie and he claimed it right away. You did not. You voted in the quest immediately. It doesn't make sense that you just forgot to train.
5. I specifically asked her to address each part of my case. Saying that she is defensive from that is disingenuous.


WHY ARE YOU USING GRAVE ACCENTS AS APOSTROPHIES

1. Because I would have come under fire myself, and because I have no reason to relieve pressure from someone like Ginngie.
2. I was distracted by a different part of the mechanics. The quest.
5. I read their ISO and it wasn`t as clear as it is now. when I read your post again.

[Not Known 15]

Town:
Not Known 15
Ame
Null:
Pink Ball, Raya36, Pine, Creature, Hectic
Possibly scum:
TSE
Likely scum:
Alisae
Raven

[Not Known 15]

Town:
Not Known 15
Ame
Null:
Pink Ball, Raya36, Pine, Creature, Hectic
Possibly scum:
TSE
Likely scum:
Alisae
Raven

How or can you order your Null reads from most to least town?

I didn`t find anything scum indicative on them. That`s why they are null in the first place. They are also not de facto mechanically cleared, like Ame.

[Not Known 15]

NK, what do you think was the motivation behind Spring "lying" about her XP?

To fabricate an explanation for pushing themselves as quest leader of course. Fark then panicked probably by wrongly assuming 2 xp wasn`t possible and tried to get townpoints by uncovering that lie before someone else stepped in.

[Not Known 15]

I need 2 xp btw, kthanks.

This was on D2, so why tf are NK and ABR sr that?

Because it means that you need 4 xp. But with needing 4 xp the "I made a mistake I don`t need just 1 xp" is even less credible....

[Not Known 15]

I need 2 xp btw, kthanks.

This was on D2, so why tf are NK and ABR sr that?

Because it means that you need 4 xp. But with needing 4 xp the "I made a mistake I don`t need just 1 xp" is even less credible....

Voeyer + Leader = 2. Maybe she forgot she couldn't train as well and that's what she was banking on to get 3 and then realized she couldn't.

XP from voyeur is not guranteed.
No that wasn`t it.

About Hectic - I am checking their ISO now.

[Not Known 15]

@Ame: consider the following.

The sabotage may be targeted at the quest leader. It will not prevent any of those things.

@mod: could you confirm whether quest actions and night actions are resolved separately? aka Potential action of scum/town PR does not affect quest item actions?

@NK based on this, I think she wanted to use gifting the quest item as a guaranteed way of successfully voyeuring and gaining XP.

Ah, well. That`s a possibility, albeit a flawed one.
It, however, still doesn`t explain where that comes from, except from SVS:

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

[Not Known 15]

So I've been thinking about this and I think it's best I claim. When I die, I become a treestump and the lynch mechanic activates. I've been trying to play in a way so as to draw the night kill, but with two claims now and seeing as FOC's, in particular, suggests a strong PR, I think that's probably not happening. So I'm claiming now to suggest that perhaps vig can aim for me tonight? I think there may be another way to activate the mechanic also because it says it will activate when I die

unless

it's already activated.

This looks… dangerous, and misconceived. You said you have been trying to draw the nk, but now you're making a claim that basically validates your survival forever, unless there is specifically a vig in the setup? I mean… it's not even scum motivated, unless scum knows for sure that there is NOT a vig in the setup - you seem to be taking an unnecessary high risk from the town by claiming this, which scum would probably just shut up about, but as town it's a pretty terrible claim, once again unless you know that there IS a vig in the setup. Hmmm.

-Farkran

His reaction to my claim here was similar to the way he reacted to springs

No, not at all. The "I don`t believe this" lacks any reason for not believing that. Where does this come from if it is SVT? If spring is town, farkset as scum accuses town of lying. Without providing any reasons. Out of nowhere.
In the reaction to your claim they are explaining what they claim to don`t like in detail.

[Not Known 15]

Another thing. Hectic couldn't kill last night because he used his 1 XP to kill N1 and he had no buddies to do it last night.

Leader died.

[Not Known 15]

Leader died.

Huh?

Lord, not Leader. Sorry.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Hectic

[Not Known 15]

Those are posts he wrote and he claimed VT?
Why the fuck does he care lmao, he has nothing to hide.

Role Name: Vanilla Townie
Abilities and Cost: None
Actions during each phase: Trained both nights
Anything else relevant: Nein

XP
Starting XP (from your role PM): 1 (note it doesn't give my starting XP in my role PM, they just told me I had 1 in the day 1 start PM)
XP at the end of D1: 1
XP at the end of Quest 1: 1
XP at the end of N1: 1

XP at the end of D2: 1

XP at the end of N2: 2
Current XP: 2

XP needed to upgrade: 3
Have you upgraded (yes/no): Ha
If yes, during which phase: Night 3

The bolded doesn’t make sense in light of FotC flip. Even if sabotage claim was valid, no way should he not have had 2 XP’.

VOTE: Hectic

Sabotage eats all xp - that´s the reason why we don`t do quests.

[Not Known 15]

well, except exp gained that night, which would apply to FotC.

[Not Known 15]

mastina/knightmare was not voting either, spring was voting farkset, farkset was voting spring. Looks like cross bussing to me.

If you lynch me, do the following:
Raven sends all their claimed XP to someone of their choosing(Not Ame). If the person can confirm this, then they are not mafia(they would lack 1 xp otherwise, due to capture). If they claim to have targeted the nightkill

lynch them

.

[Not Known 15]

I'd still like to know why Ali is town and Albert is scum though

[Not Known 15]

NK can't be let anywhere near lylo even if we're wrong.

You forgot that I am a VT who hasn`t upgraded, yet. Even if you don`t want to leave me alive at LYLO why don`t you want to wait one day?

[Not Known 15]

@NK

1. Why did you not state you forgot to train earlier?
2. How did you forget to train?
3. If you are low on XP why are you not voting for Pokerus?
4.

Why are you ignoring that SpringRaven has been spewed town by kerset

5. Where do you believe Raya was acting defensively and based on the examples you give, how do you think she should have reacted to them?
6. What is your read on GinnieSoulEnergy and MomoSae?

Also if you're low on XP why didn't you ask me for XP when I offered at the start of the day?

I don`t need you to give me xp next night. I can train. Then I have 4xp and can upgrade.

@NK15: if you are actually town here, how are you ignoring all of my posting that points to you being dead wrong on my slot? spring was obviously scummy town. I’ve already explained why the involuntary bus theory coming from scum!Farkran of all people makes no sense and spring was very clearly not down with being captured. She was desperate to become Quest leader, so how are you not seeing any of this?

There is one problem with your arguments. Mastina was scum Day 1. Someone who is known to have done crossbussing, and who easily could have mentored your two slots. The asking for quest leader was waaay over the top antitown and based on something that has been disproven. The exchange that led towards it being disproven is also scummy.

[Not Known 15]

NK if you were scum, how would you have approached this game differently?

I don`t know.

[Not Known 15]

NK if you were scum, how would you have approached this game differently?

I don`t know.

Who do you think the best player would have been to make the night kill?

Not Farkran. Either Knight or the third scum(depending on who and what it is).

[Not Known 15]

NK can't be let anywhere near lylo even if we're wrong.

You forgot that I am a VT who hasn`t upgraded, yet. Even if you don`t want to leave me alive at LYLO why don`t you want to wait one day?

Who should we lynch then?

Ideally, Raven.
If not, Alisae because they openly lied about their role
The same reason for not lynching me today also applies to TSE(unupgraded VT claim)
The rest... I need someone to uncover credible reasons for them to lynch there.

[Not Known 15]

In this scenario, you are the third. So based on that, who do you think should have done it?

Probably me because Knightmare was a 1-shot Asceticizer and with Strongman disabled would have been of use later, probably.

[Not Known 15]

Also, NK why wouldn't you have Farkset do the kill?

There was significant suspicion about that slot, and a Watcher is useful for scum. Also, watching would have given them silent XP.

[Not Known 15]

Also, NK why wouldn't you have Farkset do the kill?

There was significant suspicion about that slot, and a Watcher is useful for scum. Also, watching would have given them silent XP.

The NK is a bonus action. With this knowledge who do you think should have done it?

Still me because Farkset was under suspicion (and thus at risk of getting the attention of RB ers and trackers and followers)and a useful role.

[Not Known 15]

OK NK how did you forget the kill was a bonus action?

Didn`t think about it at that moment.

[Not Known 15]

I'll reveal more later. Basically I unlock public game mechanics. One is doctor, one grants xp, and one is a mystery. There was a quest that I haven't read.

@Mod, could you confirm that no mod error has confirmed?

Not all mod errors are serious enough to warrant public admission. But I can confirm that there has not been a mod error that would be mentioned publicly.

I’m not the mod, so I can admit more. I had a choice between three public effects to put in place today - everyone has the ability to gift XP, everyone can spend an XP to bodyguard someone, or everyone can spend one XP to make gold. I could also gift gold to people 1/night. The nice the whole Town has a piece of gold, the

entire Town

would be bulletproof. I predicated my

entire

D1 on getting Disable Strongman passed, then fading away. I needed to survive in order to make night kills extinct.

But nope! I’m a dumbass. The PM saved to drafts instead of sending, so Moriarty randomized my choice and the boring one came up.

I am livid. This was a priceless opportunity, and I cocked it up.

Sorry.

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Creature

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Yes

[Not Known 15]

What is everyone's current XP?
And NK, TSE, Titus are you able to upgrade today?

Upgrade is in progress.

[Not Known 15]

Ame, you said your upgrade was at two xp. But what was that upgrade, actually? The treestump-kill?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

[Not Known 15]

If you want me and Raven to die you have to lynch Raven. The rules are clear enough. The upgrade is shown to me at the end of the phase but it has already happened so I have used all 4 xp for the upgrade and am now at 0 xp.

[Not Known 15]

If you want me and Raven to die you have to lynch Raven. The rules are clear enough. The upgrade is shown to me at the end of the phase but it has already happened so I have used all 4 xp for the upgrade and am now at 0 xp.

You can cancel the upgrade and shoot TSE.

During any day or night, any player may PM us to spend some XP to upgrade their role. Each role has a different unique upgrade, and each role has an upgrade cost that is between 2 and 4 (and is known to the player). When a player upgrades during a phase, they will learn their new role at the end of that phase. Players who upgraded will flip with their upgraded role, but it will not be visible to rolecops.

Too late. Upgrading is, according to this, instant. It`s just that I don`t know what I am until the end of the day.

[Not Known 15]

If he hadn’t claimed to vig Farkset with no CC, I’d 100% be with you on this but scum!Ame can’t kill Farkset or this game is insane.

Wait...
Actually, what happened to Farkset?

They got treestumped.

This means whatever killed them is

not the mafia factional kill

.
There is actually no gurantee that this treestump wasn`t compulsive.
If Ame is scum, what were her options?
Kill a scumbuddy and get towncred...
or kill a townie and not only get less towncred but

also get a permanent unkillable IC into this game

!
Why was Raya the kill?
To obfuscate that Ame is still alive by making a nonsense kill!
And we followed her blindly, like sheep...
VOTE: Ame

[Not Known 15]

why the fuck r u humoring my idea when u were pushing me for lieing bro

There is only one remaining scum.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK

I have 0 xp. So... that means I cannot vengekill.

Didn’t you claim you would train last night? How can you only have 0?

Because I already chose to upgrade this day...

[Not Known 15]

Look, upgrade can be done at any time during the day. You are informed about the result at the end of the day. This means that upgrade is instant, you just have no idea what you are until the phase ends.
Me having 0 xp due to this simply means if you want to get rid of me lynch someone else who is suspect and let them vengekill me.

[Not Known 15]

I would only venge Ame, no one else because he’s scumsiding by lynching obvtown Creature.

You cant. They got a lot of xp due to gifting people.

[Not Known 15]

If you want Ame to die you have to lynch them.

[Not Known 15]

Scum can’t NK their buddies

is this a rule

I’ve never seen a game where this has happened but I want the mod to confirm it just in case. Wouldn’t that make the game bastard?

its how i got my don corleone win in 2017 and ABR did it in that same year. He shot Kuribo and we won the game

So you’re saying it’s actually possible that Ame could be scum here?

What Ame had was not a standard Mafia nightkill. It was a treestump. Even if mafia is unable to perform the standard nightkill on their buddies... then that doesn`t mean that a mafia with a 1-shot treestump is unable to treestump their buddies(especially as treestumping town has negative consequences)

[Not Known 15]

Stop making excuses and just cancel it

I cannot cancel it.

[Not Known 15]

The rules explicitely say that it is instant:

During any day or night, any player may PM us to spend some XP to upgrade their role. Each role has a different unique upgrade, and each role has an upgrade cost that is between 2 and 4 (and is known to the player). When a player

upgrades during a phase

, they will learn their new role at the end of that phase.

[Not Known 15]

And even if I

could

and the mod tells me that it is a bad wording in the rules...

I won`t.

[Not Known 15]

Stop making excuses and just cancel it

I cannot cancel it.

You are lieing

I haven`t tried it, and I

won`t

. It would be pro-scum to cancel upgrade.

[Not Known 15]

That literally just reads as I don’t want to
Even if I make something up along the lines of “you’re lieing” like I did (because knowing SS I think you would be able to cancel it), for whatever reason, you just don’t want to, and I am trying to expose that.

yeah why should I cancel? It just denies town info on flip.

[Not Known 15]

Btw
VOTE: no
Now that I think about it this is better.
today we lynch and if there’s a kill its 1v5
Then another lynch and another kill is 1v3
Then we capture and its 1v2 with the captured person being confirmed town if there’s a kill.

No it is...
today we lynch then there is a vengekill and a nightkill and its 1v4.
then another lynch and a vengekill. Then IF mafia can do another nightkill it is over(dont forget that that one costs 1 xp)
If not it goes to another lynch and a vengekill.
vs.
today we lynch and if there is a kill its 1v5
then another lynch and another kill it is 1v3
then we capture and... the captured person gets killed resulting in 1v2 without confirmed town.
That`s 4 checks plus potentially 2 others... vs 4 checks...

[Not Known 15]

Btw
VOTE: no
Now that I think about it this is better.
today we lynch and if there’s a kill its 1v5
Then another lynch and another kill is 1v3
Then we capture and its 1v2 with the captured person being confirmed town if there’s a kill.

No it is...
today we lynch then there is a vengekill and a nightkill and its 1v4.
then another lynch and a vengekill. Then IF mafia can do another nightkill it is over(dont forget that that one costs 1 xp)
If not it goes to another lynch and a vengekill.
vs.
today we lynch and if there is a kill its 1v5
then another lynch and another kill it is 1v3
then we capture and... the captured person gets killed resulting in 1v2 without confirmed town.
That`s 4 checks plus potentially 2 others... vs 4 checks...

Read this if you want to vote no.

[Not Known 15]

A vengekill gives one player too much control. Why can’t we just normal lynch, if game doesn’t end, wait to see what happened during the night and lynch again?

What? The vengekill is done by confirmed town!!!! Unless I am the investigative and I probably won`t survive we won`t get any meaningful results at night, too.

[Not Known 15]

Woah, so Ame can’t actually be considered mech confitown based on this but still I think that scum would be more likely to kill hostile town > a buddy. I particularly thought scum could never NK a buddy during factional kill. *Mind blown*.

treestump, though....

[Not Known 15]

Role Name: Vanilla Townie
Abilities and Cost: None
Actions during each phase:Train Night 2
Anything else relevant:Forgot to train Night 1

XP
Starting XP (from your role PM):1
XP at the end of D1:1
XP at the end of Quest 1:1
XP at the end of N1:2
XP at the end of D2:2
XP at the end of N2:3
Current XP:3

XP needed to upgrade:4
Have you upgraded (yes/no):no

Excuse me...

[Not Known 15]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

[Not Known 15]

Hmm if I`d get a vengekill I could cancel, especially now that the mod cleared up that my upgrade doesnt flip upon lynch or vengekill tonight.
However, about Ame - I noticed we don`t have a fullclaim from them(what exactly is the upgrade, xp for every round) I want to see that now.

I’m opposed to venge since it doesn’t cancel out scum’s NK, where we can get info based off of unaccounted XP. With venge, yes the game could literally end if correct but far more likely, it just loses us a later free mislynch, so bad idea. I don’t see how venge is anything but proscum.

Why is a vengekill less likely to hit scum than a lynch? You realize that if scum cannot kill the next two times in a row(which is not unlikely) then with the vengekill variant we have SIX instead of four town-driven kills?

[Not Known 15]

What it does is put the power into a single player’s hands and just loses us one additional free mislynch if they get it wrong.

And? Do you really think that this town, as collective, is better at finding scum via lynch than by vengekills?
And there is an additional good thing I just thought about. I have 4 xp. So... everyone tells us their current xp. You lynch me(it`s inevitable anyways), I try to kill someone with 4 (or 5 if no one exists)xp. Only scum should be hit by that kill attempt.
Then it is 1v5, with one lynch and one nightkill.
then lynch, vengekill, 1v3 if nightkill 1v2; another lynch and nightkill.
If it is 1v6 then another person makes a shot like that, and so on...
this is MUCH better than no vengekill.

[Not Known 15]

We can even confirm that somebody didn`t lie about the xp they have! And because scum died Night 1/Day 2 they cannot have gotten ANY xp from their scumpartners(Yes Farkran is a treestump but all treestumps can do is talk, they cannot perform actions).

[Not Known 15]

NK15, who would you shoot?

I`d need to know who has how much xp. Ideally, someone with 4 xp due to what I said above(the kill fails if they indeed have 4 xp, which they will NOT have if they used 1xp for nightkill)

[Not Known 15]

XP list:
Pink Ball -
Albert B. Rampage -
TrueSoulEnergy -
Alisae -
Raven Branwen -
Not Known 15 - 4
Titus -
Ame -


I have cancelled my upgrade

[Not Known 15]

We can even confirm that somebody didn`t lie about the xp they have! And because scum died Night 1/Day 2 they cannot have gotten ANY xp from their scumpartners(Yes Farkran is a treestump but all treestumps can do is talk, they cannot perform actions).

@mod, is it possible for scum to have transferred XP to a buddy?

Yes; through the Gift public mechanic, or if they have a role-based or factional ability that allows it.

There has only been 2 NKs so far and my theory that makes Titus/Hectic’s sabotage likely true, is that based on Knight’s extremely suspicious claim wrt to his XP, it seems to suggest that he did the FotC kill.

Hm. It is very unlikely that xp has been transfered during Night 1. All scum but one were dead at the end of Day 2. However, it is STILL a good idea because non-lying town does NOT get shot. Which means that the scenario you made does not apply:
we can do lynch nokill(unless lying scum), with nightkill to 1:5
then lynch vengekill no nightkill(nightkill would be dumb) to 1:3, then lynch and vengekill.
Thats three lynches and two town driven kills plus one potentially deadly xp invest("do you have 4 or more xp?")

[Not Known 15]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

What? You were opposed to Ame lynching me before. What changed? And you know there’s only one player who can do that, which is of course ABR.

Why do you need me to actually die to confirm me? When did you change your read on me? I’m starting to have doubts on you, because how is this a townie thought or are you that eager to lynch ABR? Because he is the only one who can shoot me.

Nah, you dont understand. If you have 4 xp and I do, and I attempt to shoot you you don`t die.
If you have LESS than 4 xp due to being lying scum...well thats another story.

[Not Known 15]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

Ame, suppose for a moment Raven's town. Would you lynch ABR or NK15? Normally, I would lynch ABR but

I have to have some self preservation knowing there's an innocent on me.

So, you were opposed to lynching ABR when you thought he might venge you but you’re fine with lynching him. if he venges me?

I’m losing my Titus tr now. :/

Do you have 4 xp?

[Not Known 15]

I'm not understanding this plan. What if scum is telling the truth about their remaining XP?

The mafia nightkill costs 1 xp. Night 3 kill was done by the remaining scum.
Plus, even if they didnt lie because they got xp from another source - we are doing this mainly to NOT vengekill someone today because that messes up the numbers and costs us a lynch later on, AND a vengekill.

[Not Known 15]

#toolazytocheck

If Raven has 4 XP, I recommend shooting her to soft confirm her as town.

Ame, suppose for a moment Raven's town. Would you lynch ABR or NK15? Normally, I would lynch ABR but

I have to have some self preservation knowing there's an innocent on me.

So, you were opposed to lynching ABR when you thought he might venge you but you’re fine with lynching him. if he venges me?

I’m losing my Titus tr now. :/

Do you have 4 xp?

Yes, I did request an upgrade but I will cancel it if this is the plan. If I die I obviously can’t use it.

Please cancel. If you are scum you got caught(-1 xp) and nightkilled someone(-1xp). You should be definitely dead if you are scum, and not dead if you are town.

[Not Known 15]

The second part I agree and I'm into it. The first part is what didn't add up 'cause they could tell the truth about their XP and lie about their role. Or lie about "I didn't train last night", or well many possibilities

Yes, but Raven was captured Day 1. So thats 2 xp they need to get somewhere(capture+NK) from in addition to 4 claimed xp...

[Not Known 15]

The second part I agree and I'm into it. The first part is what didn't add up 'cause they could tell the truth about their XP and lie about their role. Or lie about "I didn't train last night", or well many possibilities

Yes, but Raven was captured Day 1. So thats 2 xp they need to get somewhere(capture+NK) from in addition to 4 claimed xp...

It is still possible though! We don`t know if scum gets 1 xp every time their partner dies or something dumb like that.

[Not Known 15]

@NK15, do you want me to vote for you and venge?

I first want to see the xp claims from others and how they fit in.
Why are you still voting no to vengeful?

[Not Known 15]

I think ABR should shoot me. Yes, I will actually die in that case but I think that NK15 is very obviously town now and if ABR flips town, it probably is TSE. What do you guys think?

We risk losing a lynch with a subsequent vengekill if that happens.

[Not Known 15]

Ok then we both can safely choose upgrade. THanks.

[Not Known 15]

Ok.... you know what lynch me and I try to shoot Raven to clear this up for once and for all. I think Raven does not want to be shot here and is desperately trying to deflect. You can trust me with this: I WILL shoot Raven. Ame should not be in range anyways(2xp upgrade, got xp from multiple sources) so if it is her you can only get rid of her with a lynch. Preferably the last lynch in LYLO/MYLO.
VOTE: Not Known 15

[Not Known 15]

Do you all think this was balanced?
Honestly... I see it as townsided if I look at it.

[Not Known 15]

Game swinged towards town because my role was a support one, but could've gone the other way.

I mean I describe a game as balanced when it's not swingy, but I wouldn't call it unbalanced/townsided either. Just swingy. We used the quest mechanic once, for example.

What about the treestump?
Either
- generates an unremovable IC at the cost of a town vote
or
- kills Mafia
Or the Restless Spirit(another unremovable IC)
Or the fact that scum had a really bad hand if town played mechanically well(regarding mechanics) which was not that difficult...(the removal of strongman would have been atrocious for scum even without so many scum dead early, and the quest mechanic was so openly scumsided that any half-decent town would have avoided it past Day 1)