Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[Karnage]

so please be gentle with me

I will not be gentle!

VOTE: TLDNE

[Karnage]

This is my first game in a couple years so

I request the same gentleness

.

And you shall receive it!

Day vig: acryon

[Karnage]

pagetop

VOTE: nom

[Karnage]

I thought you weren't gonna RVS?

How do you know their vote is RVS? mine isn't

p-edit: wow, I like it

[Karnage]

I should correct myself. My vote isn't random. its Low Information

[Karnage]

Karnage on a scale of 1 to 10 how scared are you of my scumgame?

a 5 I guess

I pegged you for scum in the bug game but I had the benefit of seeing 4 or 5 flips before I had to form a read. I'd imagine it would be more difficult to repeat that if I had to do it in real time

[Karnage]

I’d like to hear your thoughts on nom too.

I don't like the 2 naked votes then a "pagetop"

I would like to see them get more involved in the game

[Karnage]

Literally just completed page 1 and you had an issue with someone's involvement in the game already?

uhh... yeah

[Karnage]

Since it sounds like you have experience with her, do those early posts ping you for meta reasons?

Nope. I'm terrible with meta so I generally disregard it

[Karnage]

ok, given that the pagetop occured on like ... page 2, what are you expecting her to be doing here at this point?

idk but something...

they were clearly paying enough attention to the game to know they could grab the pagetop so why not post something relevant to that first page?

[Karnage]

ok, given that the pagetop occured on like ... page 2, what are you expecting her to be doing here at this point?

idk but something...

they were clearly paying enough attention to the game to know they could grab the pagetop so why not post something relevant to that first page?

actually i want to expand on this a bit because its not so much the pagetop but instead the fact it followed the 2 naked votes. I just don't like that nom is actively not participating if that makes sense

p-edit: ok. is auro a gimmick account or something?

[Karnage]

wrt nom i wanna know why she changed her vote to me

this goes to the point I'm trying to make.

[Karnage]

i'm not sure it does without knowing why she did it

Ok. I think you get what I mean overall though so I'm not going to beat a dead horse

[Karnage]

Something_Smart, have you not considered that there is a mechanical reason to want to be on the wagon as town?
To take up a slot that scum could have taken; thus forcing them to stay off of it?

Not gonna lie this is something I hadn't thought of until this post but it makes a ton of sense

[Karnage]

I don't see scum!acryon. I looked through his ISO and it looks fine to me.

[Karnage]

Have you not noticed me forming a townbloc already, consisting of you, Karnage and Nomnomnom?

I'm flattered but I don't think I'm comfortable with any townbloc quite yet.

[Karnage]

Hey @Karnage, I'd like to hear where you're at in this game as well. It seems like you haven't said much since defending acryon and that's honestly all I can find in your ISO since RVS. Do you have any reads? What are you thoughts on the Allomancer wagon?

- Smarter

I haven't done much since RVS so you are spot on there

I'm starting to change my mind on nom. I think what I get as scum vibes might just be a play style/conf bias thing. I think you and auro are likely town and so you're town read there is making me reconsider things. when I re-read with a town!nom mindset I can see why you read them like you do

skitter on the other hand looks worse now. I need to go back and look at her ISO but I didn't like her reaction to eve and her all but ignoring the allo wagon

[Karnage]

UNVOTE:

[Karnage]

Seems you think it's the latter?

thats where I'm leaning, yeah

[Karnage]

If Allo is in fact L-1, I think someone should hop off just to be safe.

Town - BBmolla
Lean-town - The Limit Does Not Exist, Karnage, nomnomnom, SausasaurusRex
Null - Eve (moved down), GuiltyLion (moved up)
Lean-scum - Allomancer, skitter30
Scum - Auro

Some additional thoughts:
skitter30 - I am really back and forth on this slot. I didn't like what I saw as playing dumb, and the rebuttal to that was so-so. I wasn't sure on the Allo post I mentioned before and Karnage confirmed I'm not alone there, but it also feels unfair to push too hard on that right now when I felt basically the same way (although I didn't verbalize it).

Auro - I started to put Auro into lean-town, and then realized I had no idea why, and I think a lot of others are doing the same. I started to dig into his posts again and realized he has basically done and said nothing for a long time (the last 14 posts at least, and many before that were fluff). He basically hasn't gotten involved in anything and seems far too happy to stay on the sidelines.

VOTE: Auro

24 hours ago in 173 you said "Auro’s thought process feels town."

How did you get from there to top scum read?

[Karnage]

24 hours ago in 173 you said "Auro’s thought process feels town."

How did you get from there to top scum read?

meh re-reading your posts I guess you address this nvmd

[Karnage]

So where does that put the townbloc?

[Karnage]

{

1/0

, Nomnomnom, Karnage, Crayon} two more slots to go

funny (at least i think it is, I haven't done any math above algebra in 20 years so theres a chance I'm completely wrong and don't actually get it)

[Karnage]

I'm completely serious about the townbloc: I will try my best to make sure everyone in my townbloc townread each other, form a consensus scumread, and vote there.

Would you be willing to stay OFF the wagon if possible?

[Karnage]

They'll look -slightly- better, but that's only if they don't fight the townbloc, and sure -

I invite scum to take the 2/5 risk of doing that then

.

+1

[Karnage]

VOTE: BBMolla

having potential scum be checked should be a lot more useful to you than yourself being cleared

I'm confused?

your voting BB but critizing auro? or am i interpreting this wrong?

[Karnage]

VOTE: BBMolla

having potential scum be checked should be a lot more useful to you than yourself being cleared

I'm confused?

your voting BB but critizing auro? or am i interpreting this wrong?

Karnage saw what he did there too

I think you are confused too

[Karnage]

I think I'd prefer an allomancer lynch than eve but I'm going to take another look at each of them

[Karnage]

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

[Karnage]

Eve!

maybe but I need to go back and look at skitter again first

[Karnage]

Skitter should never be a D1 lynch especially with a cop in the game.

I know how awesome skitter is but I don't think this is a sound policy and it cheapens your whole plan about people being off wagon since according to this traffic analyst should be on skitter (which means they wouldnt be on you)

[Karnage]

What? No, I think the Traffic Analyst should literally roll a die to decide who to cop.

Ok so if its at least semi-random, why does a town cop preclude a skitter lynch?

[Karnage]

fwiw i'm not calling for a skitter lynch, I just said I wanted to take another look at their ISO

[Karnage]

apologies. i'll be back later to get caught up.

allo is likely town imo

[Karnage]

christ there's a lot to catch up on

[Karnage]

re: allo

calling him town was inaccurate. my 453 better reflects my view

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

[Karnage]

If we are lynching between allo and eve I'd prefer to lynch allo. Lynching eve removes the WIFOM for scum on deciding whether or not she needs to be night killed

[Karnage]

this game is getting away from me. anybody want to tell me where we're at right now?

[Karnage]

yeah, town lynched you for the lulz. Were you town or scum?

I'm not THAT far behind

[Karnage]

I'm sorry I didn't have a good last couple of IRL days so I couldn't bring myself to really do anything here.

I will try to get back with it today

[Karnage]

Maybe Karnage would be a better lynch.

Thats understandable

The progression of null->town->null of his Allo read feels disingenuous

But that's not. The last "null" read was me saying I'd lynch allo over eve, not a change in my read

[Karnage]

VOTE: Eve

This vote does not jive with your ISO to this point

honestly I'm kinda skipping everything at this point and I just want a flip all this stuff is meaningless to me. Just make someone flip I'm sick of this.

But does scum really say this? besides I've had this thought as town a lot of times

[Karnage]

It could be theater, and based on nom's experience level, I wouldn't put it past her. Maybe she actually did lose track of the game as either alignment, but if you're town you make an effort; what you don't do is blame other people for making the game hard to read. But if you're scum it's a lot easier to just do that, not take responsibility for falling behind, and avoid having to put together a story.

It COULD be theater but I'm just saying I've been there as town so it should probably be NAI.

[Karnage]

But to be fair, I think there's a difference between what you two are doing. You have taken responsibility for falling behind; she is blaming others. You are opening yourself up to criticism and scrutiny; she is passing the buck.

I'm not talking about the falling behind, i'm talking about just wishing we would just flip somebody already.

"opening yourself up to criticism and scrutiny" could easily be faked by scum

p-edit: fair enough

[Karnage]

i'm kinda most skeptical of where she accused me of slipping because i really don't think there's any universe where she actually believes that

I read it as being a joke

[Karnage]

I'm not big into meta but I know nom is competent as scum. I don't think scum!nom makes these "mistakes"

[Karnage]

i dont' think town!nom plays this way either tho

fair enough, I don't remember if I have any experience with town!nom

[Karnage]

I'm fine with being off wagon

[Karnage]

So when the cop gets a clear on a player, how are they supposed to communicate that without exposing themselves? and if they get a guilty, do they come out with it right away? if not, when?

[Karnage]

but if Allo was likely town per your 575 then why would you lynch Allo at all?!

I was positing on if i had to lynch either allo or eve who would I lynch.

i'm kinda most skeptical of where she accused me of slipping because i really don't think there's any universe where she actually believes that

I read it as being a joke

this is possibly worse still though, how could you see it as a joke? Like best case "totally checked out and disengaged town taking a potshot" maybe, but there's no 'joke' there?

sarcasm can be a joke.

I'm trying not to confbias myself in my Karnage/nom tunnel but
a) all these Karnage defenses of nom and
b) nom reverting from the really thoughtful/observant player of earlier this game

just seem to fit it so well from my POV? why are we entertaining the idea of lynching Allo/Eve at this point still? I'm fine with Allo in the copbloc, I don't feel Skit really needs to be in there anymore.

I think my dream rn is a Karnage lynch with nom/Allo/Molla/Saus off wagon, tho most importantly nom/Allo, happy to defer the Molla/Saus/other slots to whoever other people want to put there.

nom vs skitter feels like SvT here but I'm not sure which is which.

So much about how I'm scum but for some reason you aren't voting me? why is that?

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Karnage]

You do realize he's just stating his preference, but implies he'll go with consensus, right?

I'm not a fan of the pronoun game

[Karnage]

You do realize GuiltyLion is just stating his preference, implying GuiltyLion would just go with consensus, right?*

sure but I don't see that it matters. If I'm scum, why settle with whatever the consensus is?

[Karnage]

Because unless he knows for a fact, sometimes the right play as town is to push that gut-feeling until later. It's not always in the best interest of town for everyone to just push their individual gut read. You have to trust the others you think are town as well.

I get that in principle and I agree except that we aren't pressed up against the deadline so why not push your read?

p-edit: maybe I'm confused about the game state. what is the current "consensus"?

[Karnage]

I mean have we settled on who we are lynching and its just a matter of who is on/off the wagon?

[Karnage]

He is pushing you, no? I don't at all think pushes require votes to carry any weight.

except when you aren't voting at all

[Karnage]

I wouldn't lock it in place that we're deciding on a lynch and wagon right now, actually.

He is pushing you, no? I don't at all think pushes require votes to carry any weight.

except when you aren't voting at all

I mean, what is a vote anyway but an expression of desire to lynch? Instead, directly expressing that desire achieves the same function, no?

I guess I'm just operating on a completely different wavelength.

If there is no consensus of who we are lynching and he really thinks I'm scum why not vote? No, I don't think expressing your desire to lynch achieves the same function in this situation.

[Karnage]

also I am voting Karnage in spirit but I imagine I still haven't earned wagon privileges yet

GL said he would be voting you except he was respecting the townbloc/copbloc stuff, which I think was fair enough reason not to vote you at the time

- Smarter

aahhh, I missed that I guess

[Karnage]

UNVOTE:

[Karnage]

I'm cool with not being on the wagon

[Karnage]

Karnage, I hope that you'll be able to devote more time towards the game now?

Gonna try

[Karnage]

Yeah...

So who put the brakes on the Allo wagon and in what manner did they do it? That's where I'm looking.

Why would scum try to derail the wagon if they picked up on that?

[Karnage]

karnage do u have some reads you'd care to share?

Nothing that's worth more than random chance.

[Karnage]

... it's day2 and we've had flips already
i'm kinda not sure how you don't have any reads at this point ...

I have some reads but I just don't think they're worth much. I think TLDE, auro, and acryon are town. Eve is probably town too.

That leaves scum in skitter, GL, BB, and SR.

Gun to my head I'd say SR is town and BB idk. I'd prefer to lynch either skit/GL today

[Karnage]

Yeah the problem is we have multiple slots providing close to nothing, making this game very difficult to parse.

True and I'm part of the problem unfortunately

VOTE: Eve

Is eve one of the slots you were referring to? If so, why vote her and not me or a different slot?

[Karnage]

I'm sorry guys. I've tried to sit down and get into this game but I just can't. I don't know if I'm burnt out or what. I think its best that I step aside and hope somebody else can do a better job. May have to take a break from mafia for a bit. Hope to see you all again some time in the future.

@mod: I'm sorry but I would like to replace out