Mini 2123: Greatest Idea IX - Game Over

[EspressoPatronum]

The following cards have been discarded:

Player Name	Discard
TemporalLich	Werewolf Tracker
Titus	Alien Bulletproof Lover
TrueSoulEnergy	Town Compulsive Bodyguard
EspressoPatronum	Mafia Ninja
GlowingOvineChimes	Vanilla Townie
BBmolla	Tentacled Townie
Kerset	Serial Killer Alien-Immune
Non lmh	Vanilla Townie
Sujimichi	Mafia Goon
Untrod Tripod	Hirsute Goon
Yshtola Rhul	Town Cop
SirCakez	Werewolf Cop
Cat Scratch Fever	Alpha Werewolf

I like these discards: Kerset, CSE

I dislike this discard: Yshtola Rhul


@BBmolla - good to see you in this game! Can you walk me through why you think cops are bad in this setup?

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]
If I had the choice of a scum role, I would have picked it.

Sadly, I did not roll a single alignment other than town in all three setups. It's quite distressing, actually.
[...]

Can you tell me what cards you rolled in the other two setups?

As it stands, I do not believe that you didn't roll scum in any setup.

[EspressoPatronum]

Upon further reflection, the Alpha WW discard by CSE isn't as good as I initially thought it was. It's only good as a role if you pair it with a WW alignment card. WW Alpha is redundant in every other case bcz non-WWs don't appear guilty to seers.

I don't think it's a bad discard, but I no longer think it's a +town discard. I'd lump it in with the other scum discards.

[EspressoPatronum]

The following cards have been discarded:

Player Name	Discard
TemporalLich	Werewolf Tracker
Titus	Alien Bulletproof Lover
TrueSoulEnergy	Town Compulsive Bodyguard
EspressoPatronum	Mafia Ninja
GlowingOvineChimes	Vanilla Townie
BBmolla	Tentacled Townie
Kerset	Serial Killer Alien-Immune
Non lmh	Vanilla Townie
Sujimichi	Mafia Goon
Untrod Tripod	Hirsute Goon
Yshtola Rhul	Town Cop
SirCakez	Werewolf Cop
Cat Scratch Fever	Alpha Werewolf

@GlowingOvineChimes, @BBmolla, @Non Imh, @Yshtola Rhul

You all discarded town. What card did you use for alignment?
No need to go into roles yet.

Nb - thank you @TSE for claiming your alignment card already. I'll put you down as VT alignment.

[EspressoPatronum]

Espresso, why no comment on Cakes discard?

[...]
I don't think [CSF'd discard is] a bad discard, but I no longer think it's a +town discard. I'd lump it in with the

other scum discards

.

I've been looking at most of the scum discards as roughly the same - etter than a town discard but not necessarily AI. Kerset's jumped out as +town though because it would be an amazing scum ability for maf/WW/SK but less useful for town.

If I had to rank the others in terms of how much I like them, I'd say:
Great:
Kerset - SK alien immune

Good:
TL - WW tracker
Cake - WW cop

Null:
Suji - maf goon
CSF - alpha WW

Bad/not useful for our info:
Titus - alien BP lover
UT - hirsute maf goon

[EspressoPatronum]

The following cards have been discarded:

Player Name	Discard
TemporalLich	Werewolf Tracker
Titus	Alien Bulletproof Lover
TrueSoulEnergy	Town Compulsive Bodyguard
EspressoPatronum	Mafia Ninja
GlowingOvineChimes	Vanilla Townie
BBmolla	Tentacled Townie
Kerset	Serial Killer Alien-Immune
Non lmh	Vanilla Townie
Sujimichi	Mafia Goon
Untrod Tripod	Hirsute Goon
Yshtola Rhul	Town Cop
SirCakez	Werewolf Cop
Cat Scratch Fever	Alpha Werewolf

@GlowingOvineChimes, @BBmolla, @Non Imh, @Yshtola Rhul

You all discarded town. What card did you use for alignment?
No need to go into roles yet.

Nb - thank you @TSE for claiming your alignment card already. I'll put you down as VT alignment.

Espresso what's the point of this line of questioning? Pretty easy to BS what card you used for alignment no?

Per Micc's setup, there's a limited card pool. By asking your alignment cards, I'm asking you to commit to certain cards. This necessarily eliminates those cards from others' claims +/ will put people in counterclaim scenarios.

Easy if you're telling the truth, but much more difficult if you're lying. If it's the latter, we may be able to catch people with it later on the game.

[EspressoPatronum]

Oh @Espresso

I think Titus had a interesting discard too.
But at the same time it’s questionable.

They discarded Alien Bulletproof Lover.
I’m wondering why exactly they chose to discard it.
Like Town Bulletproof Lover. Is like really good.

I read up on lovers in Greatest Idea on the maf wiki... if my understanding is correct, ALL people with the lover modifier get matched together.

I'm any case, I had a lover draw in I think setup A + I chose to discard it. Imo, with so many potential kills every night, lovers become even worse that normal games.

[EspressoPatronum]

Upon further reflection, the Alpha WW discard by CSE isn't as good as I initially thought it was. It's only good as a role if you pair it with a WW alignment card. WW Alpha is redundant in every other case bcz non-WWs don't appear guilty to seers.

I don't think it's a bad discard, but I no longer think it's a +town discard. I'd lump it in with the other scum discards.

Just for the future.
It’s CSF.
(Cat Scratch

Fever

)

Good catch. Thanks!

[EspressoPatronum]

TSE: I got two VT's in the setup where VT was my discard. 33 should tell you I didn't only have one VT on that setup, and it can't be 0 otherwise I wouldn't be able to discard a VT

If you're scumreading me because logic eludes you then you're most likely

either scum or won't help in LyLo anyway.

pedit: the alignment card push seems towny

I don’t like the way your going about all this.
And what if I said

“Bolded”

actually applies to you.

You do realize there are

13

VT cards in this setup right? It is definitely possible I got two VTs and you got a VT in Setup A (which isn't this setup, otherwise you'd see me having a VT discard).

You trying to "no u" me feels pseudo-OMGUSy because of that

FYI - your draws in the other setups do not impact this one:

[...]
[*]Three separate setups will be generated for this game. The setup with the best overall balance between factions will be used as determined by the game moderator.
[*]For each setup, the cards numbered 1-140 in Micc's Great(est) Idea Card List will be shuffled, and three are given to each player. Each card represents an alignment and role.

[EspressoPatronum]

Has anyone played with anyone else from this game in other games?

I've played with BBmolla, Titus, TL, TSE, and UT.

Hbu?

[EspressoPatronum]

Wild card can be town or benign 3P

But I think Nom is scum anyway based on votes

If Non Imh really used the wild card for alignment, his alignment would've always been town, not randomized.

... that's not how the wild card works

You can just ask Micc. He has clarified this in a past game.

I highly doubt Non actually used wild card as his alignment without knowing how it works. He's scum.

The role setup post says this:

"Wild Card:
When the game begins, you will draw a fresh card from the remaining deck. You will have the win condition, factional abilities, and special ability of that card. You will flip as Wild Card [ability] turned [alignment] [ability] if you are killed. This card is vanilla when used as an ability card in Greatest Idea Mafia. You may have multiple abilities from using this card as your alignment and another card as your ability in Greatest Idea Mafia."

Given that the deck starts with 80 town and ~57 scum/non-town, there's actually a decent chance that Nom rolled town.

[EspressoPatronum]

Does anybody have any questions? It appears this game has stalled out.

I'm assuming it's bcz it's the weekend.

[EspressoPatronum]

I agree that Nom's L-1 on TL was hasty. Not a good look.

It should go without saying, but docs/protectives should prioritize TL bcz of the watcher claim.

[EspressoPatronum]

Cop isn't a suspicious discard imo. Cop only works on mafia and not other scum factions iirc

You're right, but it's still good bcz of how many potential maf cards in the deck. Same goes for seer with WWs.

Town Cop sucks in Greatest Idea

Why?

@Kerset, Nooe. I like town too.

Lots and lots of false negatives.

Which false negatives are you referring to?

The town list only includes one miller-like role for each investigative and one investigative-immune role for each major scum faction (GF/Alpha). On the other hand, there are 18 possible maf and 1 Miller WW for the cop, and 18 WW + 1 hirsute maf for the seer.

Have I missed any?

[EspressoPatronum]

The following cards have been discarded:

Player Name	Discard
TemporalLich	Werewolf Tracker
Titus	Alien Bulletproof Lover
TrueSoulEnergy	Town Compulsive Bodyguard
EspressoPatronum	Mafia Ninja
GlowingOvineChimes	Vanilla Townie
BBmolla	Tentacled Townie
Kerset	Serial Killer Alien-Immune
Non lmh	Vanilla Townie
Sujimichi	Mafia Goon
Untrod Tripod	Hirsute Goon
Yshtola Rhul	Town Cop
SirCakez	Werewolf Cop
Cat Scratch Fever	Alpha Werewolf

@GlowingOvineChimes,

@BBmolla

,

@Non Imh

,

@Yshtola Rhul

You all discarded town. What card did you use for alignment?
No need to go into roles yet.
[...]

[EspressoPatronum]

is it normal in this setup to just straight up ask people their alignment and expect a response?

I mean, a central part of the setup is the card draws.

Discarding town is sus, so I don't see why it's strange to expect them to explain said discards by way of saying their alignment card.

Do you disagree?

[EspressoPatronum]

is it normal in this setup to just straight up ask people their alignment and expect a response?

I mean, a central part of the setup is the card draws.

Discarding town is sus, so I don't see why it's strange to expect them to explain said discards by way of saying their alignment card.

Do you disagree?

what exactly do you expect to learn by asking people what their alignment is?

It potentially forces scum to make a claim that can be counterclaimed, as stated earlier:

The following cards have been discarded:

Player Name	Discard
TemporalLich	Werewolf Tracker
Titus	Alien Bulletproof Lover
TrueSoulEnergy	Town Compulsive Bodyguard
EspressoPatronum	Mafia Ninja
GlowingOvineChimes	Vanilla Townie
BBmolla	Tentacled Townie
Kerset	Serial Killer Alien-Immune
Non lmh	Vanilla Townie
Sujimichi	Mafia Goon
Untrod Tripod	Hirsute Goon
Yshtola Rhul	Town Cop
SirCakez	Werewolf Cop
Cat Scratch Fever	Alpha Werewolf

@GlowingOvineChimes, @BBmolla, @Non Imh, @Yshtola Rhul

You all discarded town. What card did you use for alignment?
No need to go into roles yet.

Nb - thank you @TSE for claiming your alignment card already. I'll put you down as VT alignment.

Espresso what's the point of this line of questioning? Pretty easy to BS what card you used for alignment no?

Per Micc's setup, there's a limited card pool. By asking your alignment cards, I'm asking you to commit to certain cards. This necessarily eliminates those cards from others' claims +/ will put people in counterclaim scenarios.

Easy if you're telling the truth, but much more difficult if you're lying. If it's the latter, we may be able to catch people with it later on the game.

[EspressoPatronum]

what exactly do you expect to learn by asking people what their alignment is?

And to be clear, I'm asking for their alignment

card

.

[EspressoPatronum]

I used town retired marine for alignment

Thanks, GOC!

[EspressoPatronum]

Cop isn't a suspicious discard imo. Cop only works on mafia and not other scum factions iirc

You're right, but it's still good bcz of how many potential maf cards in the deck. Same goes for seer with WWs.

Town Cop sucks in Greatest Idea

Why?

@Kerset, Nooe. I like town too.

Lots and lots of false negatives.

Which false negatives are you referring to?

The town list only includes one miller-like role for each investigative and one investigative-immune role for each major scum faction (GF/Alpha). On the other hand, there are 18 possible maf and 1 Miller WW for the cop, and 18 WW + 1 hirsute maf for the seer.

Have I missed any?

It gets false negative on 37 cards. And accurate positive on 18.

False negative meaning a not guilty when they are not town.

Cop is really fucking meh in Great Idea variants

I see. I misinterpreted your initial post as meaning false positives.

You're looking at cop/seer as a tool to clear town rather than find scum. From that perspective, I agree with you. The are several false negatives in that case.

From the false positive perspective, however, I see only 2 scenarios for each major scum faction (WW/maf):
1. The 'Wrong Place Wrong Time' modifier adds a false positive for every faction.
2. Miller/Hirsute

Both get accurate positives on 19 cards. Alpha and GF are minus one, but miller WW and hirsute goon are plus one.

If you look at cop/seer from both perspectives, it's more of a middle ground. Very reliable with a 'guilty,' but not very reliable with a 'not-guilty.'

I think you didn’t count Aliens or third party

I didn't count alien or 3p because there's far fewer of them than maf/WW. Maf and WW each have 19 cards, whereas aliens have 9 and 3ps have 10. I therefore consider the FBI agent and conspiracy theorist as being far worse than cop/seer.

[EspressoPatronum]

Would someone pick really pick Alien here? The main buff of powerful ability is denied here but weakness remains.

My previous question remains.

How do aliens normally work? I've never seen them in a game before.

[EspressoPatronum]

You are like mafia but you are only allowed to make fractional kill once.

That's how they are in this game, yeah. I was more asking about the buffs you said they normally get.

Do you mean that in picking alien alignment, you lose out on the possibility of getting their powers?

[EspressoPatronum]

You are like mafia but you are only allowed to make fractional kill once.

That's how they are in this game, yeah. I was more asking about the buffs you said they normally get.

Do you mean that in picking alien alignment, you lose out on the possibility of getting their powers?

[EspressoPatronum]

Sorry about the double post.

[EspressoPatronum]

Espresso, why no comment on Cakes discard?

[...]
I don't think [CSF'd discard is] a bad discard, but I no longer think it's a +town discard. I'd lump it in with the

other scum discards

.

I've been looking at most of the scum discards as roughly the same - etter than a town discard but not necessarily AI. Kerset's jumped out as +town though because it would be an amazing scum ability for maf/WW/SK but less useful for town.

If I had to rank the others in terms of how much I like them, I'd say:
Great:
Kerset - SK alien immune

Good:
TL - WW tracker
Cake - WW cop

Null:
Suji - maf goon
CSF - alpha WW

Bad/not useful for our info:
Titus - alien BP lover
UT - hirsute maf goon

Would you explain to me how you arrived at your ranking list based on the announced discard?

First off, this ranking list is specific to those who discarded scum (myself excluded for bias reasons - if you like the list, I invite you to sort me into it). I haven't fully decided how the indication scum discards compare to the town discards, but on a whole, I'd say town discards are more concerning than scum discards.

My 'great' and 'good' categories are roles that I think scum would benefit from keeping, and the 'bad/not useful for our info' are roles that scum/nobody would not want to keep.

I'll start with the bad.

- Titus - alien BP lover. As I've stated earlier, the 'lover' condition pairs you with ALL other players who are lovers. I read through Micc's setup info to confirm this. Even though BP is good, the lover condition is terrible in this game bcz of how many potential kills can happen per night. This is a bad card for both scum and town, as picking it can potentially increase your chances of dying by a significant margin.

- UT - hirsute mafia goon. An objectively terrible card for any faction, but it's really bad for mafia. The maf goon would get guiltied from seers AND cops. There are few cards worse than this imo, so we can't glean much info from this discard.

'great' and 'good'

- Kerset - SK Alien Immune. Being immune from another faction's kill is an amazing power for scum. When I made this list, I wasn't aware that aliens get only 1 or 2 kills in this game mode, so perhaps not as great as I originally thought, but it's still powerful for scum. I don't see town caring about it as much since there's still 4 other factions (maf/WW/SK/and even town) that can kill them. Scum taking this means they're only vulnerable to 3 other factions.

- TL - WW tracker. A tracker is great for scum, as it helps them hunt for enemy scum factions. It's less reliable than a specific investigative, but it can still narrow down options.

- Cake - WW cop. Same as above. Helps you hunt for mafia. As a note, this role would only be good for non-mafia scum teams. While that decreases the overall strength of the card for scum from an objective point of view, there are still 38 scum cards that would benefit from this (WW/alien/3ps).

Null

- Suji - mafia goon. It's good and bad. On the one hand, this would be a good card for maf to choose as alignment, allowing them to pick a more powerful ability/role card. On the other hand, it's a vanilla card, so I'm not surprised you discarded it.

- CSF - Alpha WW. This suggests to me that CSF is unlikely to be WW for two reasons: 1) it could have been used an alignment card, and 2) an alpha WW makes a great WW pairing. Other than that, we don't get much information from this card, as it's useless for every other faction except WW.

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]
If I had the choice of a scum role, I would have picked it.

Sadly, I did not roll a single alignment other than town in all three setups. It's quite distressing, actually.
[...]

Can you tell me what cards you rolled in the other two setups?

As it stands, I do not believe that you didn't roll scum in any setup.

I agree. The chances of that are so slim

Why do you think Yshtola Rhul would lie about this? This is posed to both EspressoPatronum and GlowingOvineChimes.

The chances of rolling all-town in all 3 setups is so low. My disbelief of Yshtola was initially guided by intuition, but I decided to go the extra mile today and try to math it out.

If my math checks out, the chances of picking all 3 town in any one setup is about 18.3%. Picking all 3 town in all 3 setups is ~0.006%.

[EspressoPatronum]

Thank you. That was helpful, and it makes sense to me.

A couple of questions:

1. - UT - hirsute mafia goon. An objectively terrible card for any faction, but it's really bad for mafia. The maf goon would get guiltied from seers AND cops. There are few cards worse than this imo, so we can't glean much info from this discard.

   If we cannot glean much information from this discard, and it would make sense for any faction to discard it, why do you have it as bad?
   
   

2. - TL - WW tracker. A tracker is great for scum, as it helps them hunt for enemy scum factions. It's less reliable than a specific investigative, but it can still narrow down options.

   How is Tracker better than Watcher in this regard? I would assume in a game like this, there are going to be a lot of roles with potential actions that will be able to be tracked and not just from a Mafia alignment.
   
   
3. What differentiates "not useful for our info" and "Null?"

I normally like to respond by breaking up the quote, but doing so ruins your list formatting. I'll respond by number instead.

1. The category is 'bad/not useful for our info.' The '/' is meant to represent OR.

2. What do you mean by 'better' here? From a role strength sense, I'd say watcher is better. A watcher who watches a NK target will see all who visited, giving us a pool to lynch within. A tracker who tracks someone who visits the NK target gives us only one of many possibilities.

From a discard perspective tracker is a better discard because watcher is stronger.

From a list ranking perspective (ie. Does TL's discard make it a great/good/null/bad discard), I'm not sure yet. On first thought, I'd put a watcher discard in with the 'good' discards, as it falls with the other investigatives.

3. Null discards have some good and some bad qualities, so they don't fit in any of the other categories.

[EspressoPatronum]

My question was not as to the probability of this occurring, but why you believe Yshtola Rhul would lie about it. What benefit does she gain given that, as you have shown, the probability of this occurring can be shown to be quite low?

Ahh, I see. I have no idea why she would lie about it and/or what she would gain. This was one of those, 'until given reason to believe otherwise, I do not believe you' scenarios.

For what it's worth, I consider her claim believable now because she willingly gave the draws she had in the other scenarios + the alignment she used in this one.

[EspressoPatronum]

okay, I'm just going to claim
I'm jk compulsive hider

********
VOTE: Nom Imh

L-1

********

You claimed wild card alignment, meaning one of JK/compulsive hider was assigned as your new alignment (and you got to keep its ability).

Since you did not claim weak JK, that leaves 3 options for your JK draw: Town JK, maf JK, WW JK. 2/3 chances you drew scum on the JK draw.

Compulsive hider is a town and WW option. 50/50 chance you drew scum there, too.

Aside from the mechanical reason for voting you, your ISO contains very little substance regarding your thought process, and your votes on TL and Yshtola suggest that you're looking to push through easy wagons.

[EspressoPatronum]

Suji = scum trying to fire up a counterwagon?
I don't buy non imh's claim it came out in a sketchy as fuck manner.

Do you disbelieve the truth of the claim or the alignment of the roles?

[EspressoPatronum]

I would also like to add that Nom should have known to do a complete claim in light of the Wild Card alignment draw. For example: "I drew town compulsive hider after the wild card, and I have the Werewolf JK for an ability." Leaving it vague protects Nom from getting counterclaimed bcz we can't tell what cards Nom used.

[EspressoPatronum]

then finally answer 237

Why are you asking Titus to answer 237? I thought you wanted CSF to answer that.

In any case, what answer do you expect from, "are you trying to fool us?"

[EspressoPatronum]

The question that should answered is 172. The question you mention is reminder that 172 is awaiting.

173 should be able to help answer your question in 172. Disregard if you need the answer from CSF.

If Titus thinks that "If Non Imh really used the wild card for alignment, his alignment would've always been town, not randomized." then he can feel free to argue with me. If not then he shouldn't say that i am wrong.

She hasn't said that you're wrong.

Sequence of events:
1. Titus hammered
2. You said ppl who don't understand mechanics lolhammer
3. Titus said that's a scummy and/or newbie comment
4. You asked Titus to answer your question posed to CSF.

Am I missing something, or are you talking to Titus as if she's CSF? If you're aware it's Titus, why are you shading her understanding of the mechanics? Although Titus' ISO is fairly sparse, I see no indication that she doesn't understand the mechanics.

[EspressoPatronum]

Sorry folks, I'm quite behind rn. I have some social functions over the next few days that will limit my game time. I'll catch up when I can!

[EspressoPatronum]

I didn't like the way he disappeared. It would make sense if he were scum that he wouldnt want to chime in nor hammer [...]

Sorry about that. A good friend was visiting for a few days + I didn't make time to play.

I'm here now though!

[EspressoPatronum]

I think we should do an alignment reveal today.

I'm feeling good about Suji, PB, and GOC*, so we should leave their alignment claims until the end. I propose we start with CSF and/or Kerset's alignment claims.

*Already claimed an alignment.

[EspressoPatronum]

Not sure why there were no scum kills but if it was due to a protective- good job! Keep it up!

As for my reads today, I think suji and CSF are definitely town, kerset and pb are most likely town so that leaves espresso and sircakez as scum

Thoughts?

What makes you think CSF and Kerset are town?

I have a role-related reason to believe Sircakez has a reduced chance of being scum, so I'm interested to see why you think he's scum. More importantly, what faction?

[EspressoPatronum]

From 3 kills to 1 is a bit odd. Would SK kill only on n1?

It's especially weird when you consider that any one night could yield up to 4 factional kills + a few more ability kills (vigs, for example).

Given that UT bloodsucked N1 and PB blocked UT N2, we can reasonably remove the WW factional kill from the N2 speculation.

We can also cross out the alien factional due to its 1-shot nature and the low probability of aliens being in this game.

That leaves maf+SK factionals and town killing roles. In those 3 most likely possibilities, we know 1 kill went through.

[EspressoPatronum]

Have you already claimed your alignment card, EP?

No. I intend to do so today:

I think we should do an alignment reveal today.
[...]

[EspressoPatronum]

Strange that my quoted post # didn't show up. The above quote is from 479.

[EspressoPatronum]

Alignment: town FBI agent.
Role: town rolecop.
- I have checked SirCakez and PB.

Popcorn to Kerset.

[EspressoPatronum]

Alignment card: Black goo

Role card: VT

Black goo is not a listed card in the deck.

Consider my vote on CSF. I will make it official after the mass claim.

[EspressoPatronum]

Lmao, I'm almost certain CSF lied about her cards using this: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ia/RolePMs

If she was paying attention to the setup, she would have known to at least lie using Micc's page, which is slightly different from the wiki page. viewtopic.php?f=115&t=81167

[EspressoPatronum]

Requesting that GOC, PB, and SirCakez are among the last to claim.

GOC and PB(as TSE) have both claimed alignment already. In addition, I know the roles of PB and SirCakez. We'll get more value from the massclaim if we leave these 3 to the end.

[EspressoPatronum]

In addition, I know the roles of PB and SirCakez. We'll get more value from the massclaim if we leave these 3 to the end.

In which order did you check them?

Cakez on N1, PB on N2

[EspressoPatronum]

May as well dayvig CSF no?

I agree! Dayvig CSF

Agreed.

[EspressoPatronum]

Then I probably blocked

both UT's actions

and CSF could go either way. That would confirm my theory that you're scum and not a vig, baby seal

As a note, using bloodsucker prevents the factional kill, so UT had only one action to block.

Kerset brought this up earlier + Micc's setup says the same:

Keep in mind that bloodsuck prevents fractional killing

[From Micc's setup:] Bloodsucker:
During the Night Phase, you may target another player. That player will become a Treestump and be killed. That player will be allowed to continue posting in the game thread, but will not have the ability to vote. This ability cannot be used during a Night Phase where any member of your faction is using a factional nightkill ability.

[EspressoPatronum]

Happy birthday, Micc!

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm also still thinking EP might be scum. He says hes a rolecop but if he were mafia, he would know who is town and everyone just revealed their roles so hes Scott free

Two points:

1) town rolecop is one card (#80 on the list). That'd be a super risky claim, especially since I claimed it before most others claimed their role.

I'm assuming that's why TL and CSF claimed VT -- it's easy to get away with.

2) While it's hard for me to now prove my role, I can still be used to validate existing claims. For what it's worth, I made a comment earlier about SirCakez having a reduced chance of being scum. My thought process there is that picking the seer power as WW is terrible, so he's almost certainly not WW.

As a note, the rolecop doesn't tell me the specific card, just the role itself. For instance, SirCakez came up as a seer but not the WW seer card. Same with PB -- I got Roleblocker with no specific affiliation.

[EspressoPatronum]

Erm just because Kerset is confirmed dayvig doesn't confirm alignment..
[...]

Agreed.

Role =/= alignment in this game mode

. With the exception of the 4 blacklisted combinations listed by Micc, ANY role can pair with ANY alignment.

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm assuming that's why TL and CSF claimed VT -- it's easy to get away with.

TemporalLich claimed Town Watcher.

He claimed VT as alignment

[EspressoPatronum]

Can I get a summary on claims please? I didn't pay much attention since I was getting back to Chile (we did it by the way!! Got extremely lucky)

I'm compiling them all together + will post a big list combined with Micc's card deck.

Eta tonight or tomorrow.

[EspressoPatronum]

2) While it's hard for me to now prove my role, I can still be used to validate existing claims. For what it's worth, I made a comment earlier about SirCakez having a reduced chance of being scum. My thought process there is that picking the seer power as WW is terrible, so he's almost certainly not WW.

Why did you not assume he could have been a Mafia Seer? I would think that it would be a beneficial power as that alignment.

I said 'reduced chance of scum' (meaning any evil faction) because I assumed he would not be a WW seer. He very well could be a mafia or SK seer.

For context, here's my original comment before claims:

Not sure why there were no scum kills but if it was due to a protective- good job! Keep it up!

As for my reads today, I think suji and CSF are definitely town, kerset and pb are most likely town so that leaves espresso and sircakez as scum

Thoughts?

What makes you think CSF and Kerset are town?

I have a role-related reason to believe Sircakez has a reduced chance of being scum, so I'm interested to see why you think he's scum. More importantly, what faction?

[EspressoPatronum]

Tbh mafia aligned RB would be absolute bomb this game. Why is PB town again?

I can't see a world where the right play for mafia!PB is to CC mafia!TL on D2. In such a high kill power game, it seems like scum numbers mean everything here.

[EspressoPatronum]

Titus might as well full claim, too. We know she's town, but knowing her alignment card could possibly help us down the line.

[EspressoPatronum]

Titus might as well full claim, too. We know she's town, but knowing her alignment card could possibly help us down the line.

Didn't micc give her full role at the flip?

Unless I'm mistaken, we know that Titus has a town alignment, but we don't know what her card is.

Titus has been killed by a Bloodsucker Night 1. She is a

Town Follower

turned

Town Treestump

.
BBmolla has been killed Night 1. He was a

Survivor Conspiracy Theorist

.
Yshtola Rhul has been killed Night 1. She was a

Town Mason Cop

.

It is now Day 2.

Votecount 2.00

Not Voting (9) -

TemporalLich, Pink Ball, EspressoPatronum, GlowingOvineChimes, Kerset, Sujimichi, Untrod Tripod, SirCakez, Cat Scratch Fever

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2020-03-26 14:00:00).

[EspressoPatronum]

Summary of Claims

TemporalLich:

Align - unknown mafia
Role - mafia watcher
Discard - WW tracker

Titus

Align - unknown town
Role - town follower
Discard - alien BP lover

Pink Ball/TrueSoulEnergy

Align - VT
Role - unknown roleblocker
Discard - town compulsive BG

EspressoPatronum

Align - town FBI agent
Role - town rolecop
Discard - mafia ninja

GlowingOvineChimes

Align - town retired marine
Role - town vigilante
Discard - VT

BBmolla

Align - unknwon survivor
Role - conspiracy theorist
Discard - tentacled town

Kerset

Align - VT
Role - one-shot dayvig
Discard - SK Alien-immune

Non lmh

Align - wild card (town compulsive hider)
Role - unknown jailkeeper
Discard - VT

Sujimichi

Align - town JOAT
Role - town watcher
Discard - maf goon

Untrod Tripod

Align - unknown WW
Role - alien bloodsucker
Discard - hirsute goon

Yshtola Rhul

Align - town gravedigger
Role - town mason cop
Discard - town cop

SirCakez

Align - town conspiracy theorist
Role - mafia seer
Discard - WW cop

Cat Scratch Fever

Align - unknown WW
Role - alien one-shot mass redirector
Discard - alpha WW

Micc's deck

Town Cards (80)

1.

Vanilla Townie

Nom Imh discard
2.

Vanilla Townie

GOC discard
3.

Vanilla Townie

TSE/PB alignment claim
4.

Vanilla Townie

Kerset alignment claim
5. Vanilla Townie
6. Vanilla Townie
7. Vanilla Townie
8. Vanilla Townie
9. Vanilla Townie
10. Vanilla Townie
11. Vanilla Townie
12. Vanilla Townie
13. Vanilla Townie
14.

Town Cop

Yshtola discard
15. Town Cop
16. Town Seer
17. Town Seer
18.

Town FBI Agent

EP alignment
19. Town FBI Agent
20.

Town Conspiracy Theorist

SirCakez alignment claim
21.

Town Conspiracy Theorist

BB role
22. Town Conspiracy Theorist
23. Town Bloodhound
24. Town Miller
25. Hirsute Townie
26.

Tentacled Townie

BB discard
27. Watchlisted Townie
28. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
29. Town Lover
30. Town Lover
31. Town Cop Lover
32. Town Seer Lover
33. Town Mason Lover
34. Town Mason
35. Town Mason
36.

Town Mason Cop

Yshtola role
37. Town Mason Seer
38. Town Mason Doctor
39. Town Doctor
40. Town Doctor
41.

Town Compulsive Bodyguard

TSE/PB discard
42.

Town Watcher

Suji role claim
43. Town Tracker
44. Town Roleblocker
45. Town Jailkeeper
46. Town One-Shot Vigilante
47. Town One-Shot Vigilante
48.

Town One-Shot Dayvig

Kerset role
49. Town One-Shot Paranoid Gun Owner
50. Town Supersaint
51.

Town Compulsive Hider

- Nom Imh's alignment 2
52. Town Bulletproof Lover
53.

Town Vigilante

GOC role claim
54. Town Weak Fruit Vendor
55. Town Fruit Vendor
56. Town Compulsive Childkiller
57.

Town Jack-of-all-trades

Suji alignment claim
58. Vengeful Townie
59.

Town Retired Marine

GOC alignment claim
60. Ascetic Townie
61.

Town Gravedigger

Yshtola alignment
62. Town Nymphomaniac
63. Town One-Shot Governor
64. Town Innocent Child
65. Town Treestump
66. Town One-Shot Kingmaker
67. Town Weak Jailkeeper
68. Town Vanilla Cop
69. Town Compulsive Visitor
70. Town One-Shot Commuter
71. Town Cop-of-all-Trades
72. Town One-shot Gladiator
73. Town Lynchbait
74. Town Psychiatrist
75. Town Reloader
76. Town Parrot Role
77. Town Motion Detector
78. Town Voyeur
79.

Town Follower

Titus role
80.

Town Rolecop

EP role

Mafia Cards (19)

81.

Mafia Goon

Suji discard
82. Mafia Goon
83. Mafia Goon
84. Mafia Goon
85.

Mafia Seer

SirCakez role claim
86.

Hirsute Goon

UT discard
87. Mafia Lover
88. Mafia Doctor
89. Mafia Watcher
90. Mafia Tracker
91. Mafia Roleblocker
92. Mafia Jailkeeper
93. Mafia Strongman
94.

Mafia Ninja

EP discard
95. Mafia One-Shot Bulletproof
96. Mafia One-Shot Dayvig
97. Mafia Godfather
98. Mafia Cupid
99. Mafia Reflexive Doctor

Werewolf Cards (19)

100. Werewolf
101. Werewolf
102. Werewolf
103. Werewolf
104.

Werewolf Cop

SirCakez discard
105. Werewolf Miller
106. Werewolf Mason
107. Werewolf Doctor
108. Werewolf Watcher
119.

Werewolf Tracker

TL discard
110. Werewolf Roleblocker
111. Werewolf Jailkeeper
112. Werewolf Strongman
113. Werewolf Ninja
114. Werewolf One-Shot Bulletproof
115. Werewolf One-Shot Paranoid Gun Owner
116.

Alpha Werewolf

CSF discard
117. Werewolf Supersaint
118. Werewolf Compulsive Hider

Alien Cards (9)

119.

Alien Bulletproof Lover

Titus discard
120. Alien One-Shot Unlynchable
121. Alien Prober
122. Alien Vanillaiser
123. Alien Silencer
124. Alien Psychotrooper
125.

Alien One-Shot Mass Redirector

CSF role
126.

Alien Bloodsucker

UT role
127. Alien Sympathiser

Self Aligned Cards (10)

128. Lyncher (target to the left)
129. Lyncher (target to the right)
130.

Survivor

BBmolla alignment
131. Survivor Mason
132. Survivor Compulsive Bodyguard
133. Serial Killer One-Shot Unlynchable
134. Serial Killer Two-Shot Bulletproof
135. Serial Killer Mafia-Immune
136. Serial Killer Werewolf-Immune
137.

Serial Killer Alien-Immune

Kerset discard

Alignment Changing Cards (3)

138. One-Shot Townie
139. Underdog
140.

Wild Card

Nom Imh alignment 1

NOTES:

- Nom Imh's role was one of the 3 JK cards (town/WW/maf), but it is unclear which one.
- TL claimed VT alignment but had an unknown mafia card for alignment
- CSF claimed black goo for alignment but had an unknown WW card for alignment
- UT had an unknown WW card for alignment

[EspressoPatronum]

@PB I think your earlier no-lynch strat is better. If you keep the killing roles RB'd, it'll allow me to investigate the roles to validate role claims. Meanwhile, Cakez will be able to scan for more WWs. Suji's watcher can be a possible failsafe if the the night isn't deathless.

I learned my lesson from our close call with the 3ps in MM2. Better to play it slow than risk the game over being too hasty.

[EspressoPatronum]

So, in conclusion!!

We no lynch today; EP rolecops Suji, I roleblock Ovine; if Suji is actually a watcher, I'd say bot him and sircakez are conftown, along with Silver Bullet of course, and we lynch Ovine; if EP says Suji is lying, we lynch Suji.

That's what will give us the most information today I think.

Kk, sounds like a good plan to me! I'll check Suji tonight.

VOTE: No Lynch

You get bonus points for committing to the Silver Bullet nickname

[EspressoPatronum]

Titus fullclaim?

I am the dead treestump.

Right, but can you tell us your alignment card in the offchance it can help us?

[EspressoPatronum]

Visiting fam for the next day or so. My activity will be low.

Unless I'm told otherwise, I'll be proceeding under the assumption that we're no-lynching + I'm rolecopping Suji.

[EspressoPatronum]

Confirming that Suji is a watcher

[EspressoPatronum]

It's between Suji and Kerset for me

I think it's Kerset. His EOD didn't feel right.

No-lynch was clear

[EspressoPatronum]

Oops, I hit submit too early.

No-lynch was clearly the right play* and he tried pushing GOC.

[EspressoPatronum]

uh yea, if you see contradiction here then it means that word 'sheep' has different meaning in our dictionaries. I can use term follower, if sheep bothers you.[...]

Follower makes a lot more sense in context. Thanks for clarifying.

Also because agreeing with the best alternative doesn't mean you're not thinking in other alternatives, is just that you came to the same conclusion after thinking which is the best course of action.
[...]

Agreed. I tend to view the leader/follower dynamic as more of a teamwork relationship. This is especially true when you're trying to do collaborative solves -- the louder player(s) air their ideas, then the rest of the group can help make them better.

Imo, going against the group for the sole purpose of not being a 'follower' is less helpful to town than working with the group. It's also better to fully explain your stance instead of just calling people out. I talked a lot about this in my recent TM20 game, but I'd be happy to go into it deeper here, too.

[EspressoPatronum]

Sheeping is analyzable content tho

I disagree. That is common tactic in Assassin in the Palace, which prevents assassin from winning

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure why the specific example of Assassin the Palace contradicts the general assertion that "sheeping is analyzable content."

Sheeping, lurking, hyperposting.... these behaviours all go to effort, and they can absolutely play a role in determining a player's alignment.

[EspressoPatronum]

pinky if you want anything then question from

They only thing that bothers me is why would scum gamble. It wasn't certain whenever suji watches EP or GOC. Pink would be slightly safer pick and he got highly cleared. We got 5 ppl, 4 after lynch. If vig uses his ability then he will prevent lylo from happening under 33% raw chance of winning. He wasn't important enough to risk instalosing, assuming that there was a risk.

remains open (i am not attacking you, in case you find me hostile)

Re 705 - I think we're looking for an alien.

It'd make sense for aliens to kill the vig claim asap, as aliens get one factional kill per game vs the vig's infinite. It'd also help explain why there was only one kill on N2.

[EspressoPatronum]

Glad to see people coming around to Kerset. I'm heading to sleep now, but I'll make my vote official tomorrow.

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]
And EP well I love him with all my heart but his ISO is underwhelming.[...]

Oof. I thought I was doing some good work.

Sorry to disappoint -- I'll take a closer look at the game tomorrow before settling on a vote.

[EspressoPatronum]

So I didn't end up taking a closer look. Nothing is happening though, so I'm down to just process this out.

VOTE: Kerset

[EspressoPatronum]

lameee i give you riddle and you run away from it.

I love me some riddles. Hit me with it.

Here's one from me: what runs around a field but never moves?

[EspressoPatronum]

Lol, that's fantastic. In true MM2 fashion, the roleblock + no-lynch combo can secure the win.

Let's do it!

[EspressoPatronum]

I'd prefer Kerset, but I'll consolidate on Suji.

[EspressoPatronum]

VOTE: Suji

[EspressoPatronum]

I wasn't RBed

[EspressoPatronum]

I didn't do anything last night because I've checked PB and Cakez, and Kerset used his dayvig publicly.

I have received no messages about being roleblocked, so I assumed I was not roleblocked. If I were scum trying to hide this +/ had no night actions, I would have just waited until after PB claimed it.

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm also still thinking EP might be scum. He says hes a rolecop but if he were mafia, he would know who is town and everyone just revealed their roles so hes Scott free

EP probably doesn't have any night actions

See below:

Not sure why there were no scum kills but if it was due to a protective- good job! Keep it up!

As for my reads today, I think suji and CSF are definitely town, kerset and pb are most likely town so that leaves espresso and sircakez as scum

Thoughts?

What makes you think CSF and Kerset are town?

I have a

role-related reason to believe Sircakez has a reduced chance of being scum

, so I'm interested to see why you think he's scum.

More importantly, what faction

?

Alignment: town FBI agent.
Role: town rolecop.
- I have checked

SirCakez

and PB.

Popcorn to Kerset.

In addition, I know the roles of PB and SirCakez. We'll get more value from the massclaim if we leave these 3 to the end.

In which order did you check them?

Cakez on N1, PB on N2

Why would I say that about Cakez if I didn't know he was a seer?

[EspressoPatronum]

EP's just sloppy whichever his alignment is. He should have rolecopped anyway, just to prove or disprove bring RBed. That's true of either alignment.

Yeah, looking back on it, I was just so sure we had it on lock + didn't expect to get into a RB claim situation.

I'll be sure to submit an action in future games.

[EspressoPatronum]

Exactly what Titus said. SirCakez is absolutely town because of how he started the day.

Why did you start the day saying you weren't roleblocked instead of saying you didn't act last night? That's odd.

Because I mistakenly thought you get a message when you're roleblocked.

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm not advocating a lynch on anyone yet.

Why did you feel the game was solved yesterday?

PB is my top town read + I agreed with the efficacy of his plan.

In addition, the night kills (or lacktherof) suggest we're looking for an alien. I think Kerset is said alien.

[EspressoPatronum]

SirCakez, do you trust PB?

I am pretty clear lynching not!PB = PB's team wins.

Kinda? I really don't like how they've come out today but before today I did.

Who claimed survivor???

pls no nightkilling me
I am a cute survivor, i am just trying live peaceful life.

[EspressoPatronum]

VOTE: Kerset

Time to lock this one in.

[EspressoPatronum]

Sorry, all. I'm here! Nothing really new to add.

My thought is this -- if it's not Kerset, we pretty much lose.
- if PB is SK, we 100% lose.
- if Cakez is SK, there's a high chance we lose.
- if either is alien, we tie the game even if they get to the end

While I think alien best explains the lack of kills, maf/SK is a possibility. Imo, Kerset is still the most likely maf/SK.

[EspressoPatronum]

I was roleblocked last night.

[EspressoPatronum]

We don't have to worry about SK or maf anymore, so my alien suspicion is right.

We have to lynch right to win, but lynching wrong will at least net a tie.

[EspressoPatronum]

I did indeed, but I'm not sure what to do with Kerset not flipping scum.

I'll take some time later today to do an ISO on both of you. I encourage you both to so the same.

[EspressoPatronum]

I will; have done it before but I want to be 100% sure. I'm probably end voting you so if you want to 1v1 someone it will have to be me, or if I'm wrong we just lose but I don't think I'm wrong.

The only offsetting thing here is the existence of an alien but I

thought the same thing that Ovines said about your rolecop claim

.

I addressed this earlier. If you're going to try suggesting I'm not a rolecop, you need to answer the question below (bolded and highlighted for convenience).

I'm also still thinking EP might be scum. He says hes a rolecop but if he were mafia, he would know who is town and everyone just revealed their roles so hes Scott free

EP probably doesn't have any night actions

See below:

Not sure why there were no scum kills but if it was due to a protective- good job! Keep it up!

As for my reads today, I think suji and CSF are definitely town, kerset and pb are most likely town so that leaves espresso and sircakez as scum

Thoughts?

What makes you think CSF and Kerset are town?

I have a

role-related reason to believe Sircakez has a reduced chance of being scum

, so I'm interested to see why you think he's scum.

More importantly, what faction

?

Alignment: town FBI agent.
Role: town rolecop.
- I have checked

SirCakez

and PB.

Popcorn to Kerset.

In addition, I know the roles of PB and SirCakez. We'll get more value from the massclaim if we leave these 3 to the end.

In which order did you check them?

Cakez on N1, PB on N2

Why would I say that about Cakez if I didn't know he was a seer?

In addition, I claimed rolecop earlier than most others claimed their role. Fake claiming a single role (such as rolecop) would open me up to a counterclaim.

[EspressoPatronum]

Summary of Claims

TemporalLich:

Align - unknown mafia
Role - mafia watcher
Discard - WW tracker

Titus

Align - unknown town
Role - town follower
Discard - alien BP lover

Pink Ball/TrueSoulEnergy

Align - VT
Role - unknown roleblocker
Discard - town compulsive BG

EspressoPatronum

Align - town FBI agent
Role - town rolecop
Discard - mafia ninja

GlowingOvineChimes

Align - town retired marine
Role - town vigilante
Discard - VT

BBmolla

Align - unknwon survivor
Role - conspiracy theorist
Discard - tentacled town

Kerset

Align - VT
Role - one-shot dayvig
Discard - SK Alien-immune

Non lmh

Align - wild card (town compulsive hider)
Role - unknown jailkeeper
Discard - VT

Sujimichi

Align - town JOAT
Role - town watcher
Discard - maf goon

Untrod Tripod

Align - unknown WW
Role - alien bloodsucker
Discard - hirsute goon

Yshtola Rhul

Align - town gravedigger
Role - town mason cop
Discard - town cop

SirCakez

Align - town conspiracy theorist
Role - mafia seer
Discard - WW cop

Cat Scratch Fever

Align - unknown WW
Role - alien one-shot mass redirector
Discard - alpha WW

Micc's deck

Town Cards (80)

1.

Vanilla Townie

Nom Imh discard
2.

Vanilla Townie

GOC discard
3.

Vanilla Townie

TSE/PB alignment claim
4.

Vanilla Townie

Kerset alignment claim
5. Vanilla Townie
6. Vanilla Townie
7. Vanilla Townie
8. Vanilla Townie
9. Vanilla Townie
10. Vanilla Townie
11. Vanilla Townie
12. Vanilla Townie
13. Vanilla Townie
14.

Town Cop

Yshtola discard
15. Town Cop
16. Town Seer
17. Town Seer
18.

Town FBI Agent

EP alignment
19. Town FBI Agent
20.

Town Conspiracy Theorist

SirCakez alignment claim
21.

Town Conspiracy Theorist

BB role
22. Town Conspiracy Theorist
23. Town Bloodhound
24. Town Miller
25. Hirsute Townie
26.

Tentacled Townie

BB discard
27. Watchlisted Townie
28. Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie
29. Town Lover
30. Town Lover
31. Town Cop Lover
32. Town Seer Lover
33. Town Mason Lover
34. Town Mason
35. Town Mason
36.

Town Mason Cop

Yshtola role
37. Town Mason Seer
38. Town Mason Doctor
39. Town Doctor
40. Town Doctor
41.

Town Compulsive Bodyguard

TSE/PB discard
42.

Town Watcher

Suji role claim
43. Town Tracker
44. Town Roleblocker
45. Town Jailkeeper
46. Town One-Shot Vigilante
47. Town One-Shot Vigilante
48.

Town One-Shot Dayvig

Kerset role
49. Town One-Shot Paranoid Gun Owner
50. Town Supersaint
51.

Town Compulsive Hider

- Nom Imh's alignment 2
52. Town Bulletproof Lover
53.

Town Vigilante

GOC role claim
54. Town Weak Fruit Vendor
55. Town Fruit Vendor
56. Town Compulsive Childkiller
57.

Town Jack-of-all-trades

Suji alignment claim
58. Vengeful Townie
59.

Town Retired Marine

GOC alignment claim
60. Ascetic Townie
61.

Town Gravedigger

Yshtola alignment
62. Town Nymphomaniac
63. Town One-Shot Governor
64. Town Innocent Child
65. Town Treestump
66. Town One-Shot Kingmaker
67. Town Weak Jailkeeper
68. Town Vanilla Cop
69. Town Compulsive Visitor
70. Town One-Shot Commuter
71. Town Cop-of-all-Trades
72. Town One-shot Gladiator
73. Town Lynchbait
74. Town Psychiatrist
75. Town Reloader
76. Town Parrot Role
77. Town Motion Detector
78. Town Voyeur
79.

Town Follower

Titus role
80.

Town Rolecop

EP role

Mafia Cards (19)

81.

Mafia Goon

Suji discard
82. Mafia Goon
83. Mafia Goon
84. Mafia Goon
85.

Mafia Seer

SirCakez role claim
86.

Hirsute Goon

UT discard
87. Mafia Lover
88. Mafia Doctor
89. Mafia Watcher
90. Mafia Tracker
91. Mafia Roleblocker
92. Mafia Jailkeeper
93. Mafia Strongman
94.

Mafia Ninja

EP discard
95. Mafia One-Shot Bulletproof
96. Mafia One-Shot Dayvig
97. Mafia Godfather
98. Mafia Cupid
99. Mafia Reflexive Doctor

Werewolf Cards (19)

100. Werewolf
101. Werewolf
102. Werewolf
103. Werewolf
104.

Werewolf Cop

SirCakez discard
105. Werewolf Miller
106. Werewolf Mason
107. Werewolf Doctor
108. Werewolf Watcher
119.

Werewolf Tracker

TL discard
110. Werewolf Roleblocker
111. Werewolf Jailkeeper
112. Werewolf Strongman
113. Werewolf Ninja
114. Werewolf One-Shot Bulletproof
115. Werewolf One-Shot Paranoid Gun Owner
116.

Alpha Werewolf

CSF discard
117. Werewolf Supersaint
118. Werewolf Compulsive Hider

Alien Cards (9)

119.

Alien Bulletproof Lover

Titus discard
120. Alien One-Shot Unlynchable
121. Alien Prober
122. Alien Vanillaiser
123. Alien Silencer
124. Alien Psychotrooper
125.

Alien One-Shot Mass Redirector

CSF role
126.

Alien Bloodsucker

UT role
127. Alien Sympathiser

Self Aligned Cards (10)

128. Lyncher (target to the left)
129. Lyncher (target to the right)
130.

Survivor

BBmolla alignment
131. Survivor Mason
132. Survivor Compulsive Bodyguard
133. Serial Killer One-Shot Unlynchable
134. Serial Killer Two-Shot Bulletproof
135. Serial Killer Mafia-Immune
136. Serial Killer Werewolf-Immune
137.

Serial Killer Alien-Immune

Kerset discard

Alignment Changing Cards (3)

138. One-Shot Townie
139. Underdog
140.

Wild Card

Nom Imh alignment 1

NOTES:

- Nom Imh's role was one of the 3 JK cards (town/WW/maf), but it is unclear which one.
- TL claimed VT alignment but had an unknown mafia card for alignment
- CSF claimed black goo for alignment but had an unknown WW card for alignment
- UT had an unknown WW card for alignment

[EspressoPatronum]

That VT claim by TSE/PB....

[EspressoPatronum]

PB as an alien roleblocker explains why Ovine died when he did.

If we were all out of scum by that point, PB had no excuse to block Ovine beyond that one night. We would have had a vig going uncontested all the way to lylo, meaning an alien would almost certainly lose.

Better to go for a tie than a loss, I suppose.

[EspressoPatronum]

@PB - You 'risking' the game by roleblocking me two nights ago also doesn't add up.

If Kerset was non-alien scum and you were town, you were 100% dead. They would have lynched me as a result (bcz Cakez' last message was to block Kerset), and scum!Kerset would have won.

If I was non-alien scum, your roleblock was unnecessary, as blocking Kerset would mean someone else died (either you or Cakez). That would have cleared Kerset + allowed you/Cakez to vote me.

But instead you took a random 'hero' play and set me up to die in lylo*


*I suppose it's lynch or tie, so LyTi?

[EspressoPatronum]

VOTE: Pink Ball

Half of me wants to give you the tie for the effort.... but the other half wants the W.

[EspressoPatronum]

Oh so you're claiming I didn't roleblock you two nights ago?

I believe that you did, but I'm saying you would only do that as scum bcz you knew it wouldn't have game-losing repercussions.

It would have been more accurate to say "the [reasons] for you 'risking' the game by roleblocking me two nights ago also [do not] add up."

[EspressoPatronum]

Alien PB can't win because he already shot Ovine.

[EspressoPatronum]

Alien PB can't win because he already shot Ovine.

So you're claiming I decided to go for a tie instead of trying to win. That wouldn't be towards my win condition, and I'm pretty sure Ovine was townlocking me so why would I do that?

904

[EspressoPatronum]

Yeah, you've played a phenomenal game. At the end of the day, I don't know what your thoughts were at the end.

The best I can do is guess on the lack of kills. Doing so suggests you're an alien. It's possible you started playing to not lose vs playing to win.

[EspressoPatronum]

It's also tough to recover here because you've been throwing light shade on me for the last few in-game days. I dismissed it as paranoia, but it's clear you've planned this for a while.

Nancy Drew did the same thing to me in CoaLITion.

[EspressoPatronum]

Everyone has submitted their card choices and I've decided that we will be using Setup C. I'll put together role PM's and have them sent out today.

It was not explicitly mentioned in my setup information, but all players in this game have Multitasking by default - that is, players are allowed to submit any number of actions they have access to during a given phase.

This is consistent with all Greater Idea games I've run and has been edited into my Setup Information post.

[EspressoPatronum]

Timing of Ovine's death make absofuckinglutely no sense for alien!SilverBullet. Let the vig make one or more mistakes and kill her after LyLo. Alien got only one shot, why use it there?

Also there's another hole in your theory: where is Ovine's shot in that night? Did she shoot herself? Or did I block her AND killed her at the same night? I don't think that's even possible my sweet EP, and you would know that.

Fake townslip.

[EspressoPatronum]

@PB you sprinkled in enough pro-EP posts that I let these slip by.

What we're going to do is fullclaim, and I'll judge you on how good you solve the setup EP.

All three cards, which one was used as alignment, as role and discarded.

CSF you start.

Reasons on why everyone could be scum:
1. EP: being a rolecop says nothing about his own alignment. He can just confirm everyone's alignment and look townie because of not lying but that wouldn't really help to solve his own slot. His lack of interactions on D2 is compelling.
2. Kerset: sorry dude I haven't payed enough attention to your slot to even consider you scum. The vig shot is cool but it just confirms you're not a werewolf which I'm pretty sure are not a main concern. Also claiming VT as alignment is boring.
3. Suji: this is my wildcard scumread. He apologized for not confirming SirCakez visting TL on N1 before. I fucking HATE this for two reasons: 1, pretty convenient watching TL who is an already flipped scum, seems like trying to get not!mafia reads on himself; and 2, because Suji says "I don't want to share my N1 result" that involves SirCakez, but actually asks Ovine to follow the massclaim. If you don't want to share your N1 target 'cause you want to see if your result will say the truth, why not asking your target to follow the massclaim? To me, it makes perfect sense that the mafia team did actually had some kind of guilty on CSF and TL tried to frame her, so Suji would be lying about his role.
4. Ovine: enough said, her reaction to TL being soft guiltied on D2 was bad, her survivalism seems bad, her N1 shot was bad... And the fact that there were 3 kills on N1 and 1 on N2 makes me believe that Ovine is a scum vigilante and since we lynched her partner, now the scumteam has only 1 shot and not 2.
5. Sircakez: makes no sense as scum unless partner with Suji and TL which makes no sense balance wise.
6. Silver Bullet: literally got both mafia and werewolf members destroyed, unless you guys think I'm a 3rd party which I'd be townsiding as fuck right now so what's the point.

I hate this game, I hate being wrong.

But fuck me, I reread D2 and Suji would make sense only as alien. I may have overestimated Kerset 'cause their interactions with TL on D1 and 2 are awful.

And EP well I love him with all my heart but his ISO is underwhelming.

I want Kerset dead now lol and I'm going down with my boat with this one

VOTE: Kerset

Bad choice EP

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

"Damn it I was so sure it was Suji.

So if Kerset is telling the truth, my best shot is targeting EP; they think I'm roleblocking Kerset, so if I die we lose, but if Kerset dies, it means SirCakez made the shot and if no one dies, EP made the shot. But scum would always try to shoot anyone but Kerset if they believe Kerset is a survivor 'cause they win if they shoot town, so I'm obviously the target and I have to be right.

roleblock EP

If Kerset is the remaining scum tho, they'll have a cool LyLo trying to define if I roleblocked Kerset or EP. Let's see how it goes."

This is what I wrote when I roleblocked EP. I don't know what Kerset was doing if they aren't a survivor, but at least we have a liar busted.

P-edit -- I was blinded by the praise and true-OGness.

[EspressoPatronum]

@Cakez -- PB said it. You were the optimal target for scum!EP. I've laid out everything that stood out on my reread. It's in your hands now.

I didn't choose the life of tarnishing the Silver Bullet's game - it chose me.

[EspressoPatronum]

First post you quoted: there's no shade in there? I was praising your mechanical solving capacity and I never judged you for not solving the game actually so like, anti shade?
Second post: I'm literally stating every single player's scumminess. Like, your case on "you have shaded me the entire game" makes sense for Suji, not you. And I decided to lynch Suji, not you. Get over it.
Third post: your ISO is underwhelming, am I wrong about that one? Only legit shade and it's before saying that I think Suji makes sense as Alien and voting Kerset. Once again, would make sense for Suji, not you.

Perhaps I'm mixing up shade with "dropping hints/avenues of scumreading." If it's a more negative connotation, I didn't mean to suggest that.

I meant that you've been building up to a mislynch on me for a long time.

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]
Fourth post: it's from the last day. Last day I didn't shade you, I scumread you. That's different. IF I WERE AN ALIEN I WOULD'VE LYNCHED YOU YESTERDAY AND WIN WITH THE SURVIVOR TODAY.

You just keep making me look even more town, EP.

You

did

try to lynch me yesterday. You only let up once Cakez and Titus said they were suspicious.

[EspressoPatronum]

ALERT

939 is the smoking gun, and PB confirmed it in 936.

[EspressoPatronum]

Regardless of how this turns out, I'm happy the 1v1 was with you.

GG either way, PB.

[EspressoPatronum]

PB fully tried for a speedlynch yesterday to clinch the game.

You were right to suspect him yesterday, Cakez.

[EspressoPatronum]

Lmao, all that and Cakez was an alien?!

Good game, all! It was a blast right up until the end. Hats off to PB especially - you had an amazing game!

[EspressoPatronum]

I thought Kerset was just the last scum so my plan was to then get PB mislynched somehow in the final three so I could kill espresso and win
But I was wrong q.q

We would have killed each other at night if you voted PB

I was also considering trying for a PB lynch yesterday but was too scared of coming across as scummy if I backtracked on him being town.

[EspressoPatronum]

Thank you so much, Micc!

Great learning experience and I thoroughly enjoyed it!

Echoing this!

Great job, Micc. I had a great time.

[EspressoPatronum]

Subject: Mini 2123: Greatest Idea - Mafia Thread

I'm thinking about shooting TSE for being likely scum

other worthy nightkills (we're ideally looking for scum who isn't an easy lynch or a strong townie):

SirCakez (would be bad for us regardless of alignment)

Yshtola Rhul (strong townie)

like

what was I doing to give this impression?

81 felt really town.