Mini 2110: I hate Mafia (Day 8)
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This game is good, because now you win if you get lynched, and if you lose, you get to play a lot more of the game!
On a completely unrelated note, I'm a Mime, please don't lynch me.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I very much intend to make it to the end of the game without being lynched, don't worry about trying to sort me, please.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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VOTE: Farkranis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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That's pretty wasteful of the shot, I think.In post 16, Rautherdir wrote:@Mod: Can the day-vig self-target?
p-edit
Not self-voting because self-voting doesn't tell anyone anything?is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I see what you mean.In post 18, Rautherdir wrote:It guarantees the shot happens on town though. At LYLO the mimes will control almost half of the votes, so it might become necessary to use it in that way.
This is probably town.In post 19, Gyro Zeppeli wrote:I am vanilla townieis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Actually, I'm gonna say this feels gut townie, but it's not mechanically AI, I don't think.In post 19, Gyro Zeppeli wrote:I am vanilla townieis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I think we need some of each.In post 25, Farkran wrote:In post 13, Enter wrote:This game is good, because now you win if you get lynched, and if you lose, you get to play a lot more of the game!
On a completely unrelated note, I'm a Mime, please don't lynch me.
We have two opposite claims here, one is obviously "stupid" (not in its offensive meaning, just that it makes no sense to scumclaim, so i assume the poster is either lying on purpose or being wifomy about it), the other is "lamisty".In post 19, Gyro Zeppeli wrote:I am vanilla townie
I think this calls for the question: how do you think you should play pro-town in this game?
I think narrowing down the pool of players open for a lynch is very beneficial for town, so both of these claims are pro-town, in my opinion.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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What agenda does this push?In post 26, Venmar wrote:
probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?In post 12, Farkran wrote:...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?
highly sus the way this post was made
How does this oppose a town win-con?
In what way is this scummy? Like, what do the Mimes get out of this post that town doesn't?
There are three mimes, so if a mime volunteers, then at least one of the three other people is town.In post 27, Farkran wrote:
I get the lywin vig lynch, but i don't get the other part. I think you mean we get to lywin with 1 vig + 3 volunteers + 3 other people. What if a mime volunteers?In post 23, Rautherdir wrote:So, change of plans, we'll lynch the vig on LYWIN. We could also have three other players to volunteer to never get lynched as long as a mime isn't killed. I guess I'll be one of them so I can explain how that works later on in the game.
Also, I think I just figured out how to break the setup.
Right.In post 28, Farkran wrote:
It's also in the best interest of town, though? Anyways i was more wondering why no one thought of that, rather than suggesting everyone shouldIn post 26, Venmar wrote:
probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?In post 12, Farkran wrote:...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?
highly sus the way this post was madeis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I did?In post 31, Venmar wrote:@farkran; yeah but if its in the best interest of both alignments then its a pointless gesture and doesn't prove anything other than getting townie points by trying to point it out
why not vote him then, do you actually think farkran is town?
This is a bad vote, regardless of what alignment you think Rautherdir is.In post 32, Venmar wrote:also rautherdir is town imo based on gut and how hes conducting himself,
vote: rautherdir
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Wait no I voted Farkran. Nvm.
No, I'm not moving my vote from Farkran to Gyro, Farkran seems townier based off first impressions.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I think you're either just attracted to one playstyle over another when we definitely need both, or you're intentionally trying to twist Farkran's NAI play into something AI. There is nothing in this post that makes Farkran's post look scummier (although you trying to push a post that's NAI certainly makes it look like you're trying to do so).In post 37, Venmar wrote:
its kind of pointless to use the "what do mimes get out of this post that town doesn't" because the way this game works means town and mimes will be acting virtually the same in their goals since its the goal of both to get lynched. fundamentally, pushing a town win-con is also pushing a mime win-con when that goal is getting lynched. so everything we do will benefit both.In post 33, Enter wrote:
What agenda does this push?In post 26, Venmar wrote:
probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?In post 12, Farkran wrote:...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?
highly sus the way this post was made
How does this oppose a town win-con?
In what way is this scummy? Like, what do the Mimes get out of this post that town doesn't?
therefore its more productive to look at the context of how someone acts instead rather than the action itself. in this case i think farkran trying to make voting for oneself look like a townie thing to do feels more like a mime trying to find a reason to look townie, rather than a townie trying to do the same. by comparison, i think rautherdir's approach has been more townie thinking than farkran since he's trying to plan out the game rather than find a way to make easy actions look inherently townie or mimey.
...
was farkran townier than gyro when you made your farkran vote?Enter wrote:Wait no I voted Farkran. Nvm.
No, I'm not moving my vote from Farkran to Gyro, Farkran seems townier based off first impressions.
Well, considering Gyro hadn't posted when I voted Farkran, yes.
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Venmar is making a terrible first impression.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Yes. I nominate Venmar to also be part of that group.In post 43, Rautherdir wrote:But seriously, we need 4 other people (but not the vig) to volunteer to not get lynched today, and then I'll explain how this will work. I'm assuming Enter volunteered.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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There's a difference between me having a gut town read on Farkran, and there being a logical reason his post is AI or not.In post 48, Venmar wrote:
this is basically just you disagreeing with how im reading the game. you think farkran's post wasn't AI, which is dumb, whereas i think it was. pushing a playstyle/tactic while trying to imply that such an action would be AI, should tell you something about the player.In post 38, Enter wrote:I think you're either just attracted to one playstyle over another when we definitely need both, or you're intentionally trying to twist Farkran's NAI play into something AI. There is nothing in this post that makes Farkran's post look scummier (although you trying to push a post that's NAI certainly makes it look like you're trying to do so).
not to mention that you clearly think farkran is townie, so you thinking his first post being NAI doesn't make much sense, otherwise why would you vote him?
i've also already specified im focusing on the context behind the playstyle, not the playstyle or action itself. if you want to be dumb, then go for it.
You failing to present any form of solid argument why Farkran's post is AI doesn't make me dumb, though.
I see...
this was actually poor wording by me, i apologize, but my intention was to point out that farkran had only made one post by the time gyro made his "townie" post. i was trying to gleam if you thought farkran's one singular post at the time was still townier than the gyro post you heralded as probably town.In post 38, Enter wrote: Well, considering Gyro hadn't posted when I voted Farkran, yes.
Why would it suck to be me? I'm doing great.In post 49, Venmar wrote:
lol it sucks to be you huhIn post 39, Enter wrote:Venmar is making a terrible first impression.
You seem to be taking this all very hard, probably a bit harder than you should, and that's interesting to me.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I'm not disagreeing with how you're reading the game, BTW, I'm disagreeing with how you're presenting the game. You're implying that Farkran's post is mechanically AI, and it isn't. You're trying to frame Farkran as scummy with no reason other than you twisting the context.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I think Venmar's process is flawed at the very best, lacking at its worst. His reasons for his reads seem artificial and he seems to be looking for reasons to have reads on me and other players.
I'm not convinced Fakran is town. I don't feel particularly strongly about the matter. Just because I oppose a stupid argument that someone is scum does not mean I think that person is really strong town.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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By lacking I mean completely absentis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I could see paranoid townie, maybe.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Your argument that I'm a mime is stupid, because I'm already a mime. And I'm not defending Farkran, I'm attacking you.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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You should hard scum read and that shouldn't excuse bad arguments for why a player is scum.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I think seeing the attacks on the relatively ridiculous case from Venmar aren't a defense of you so much as they're an attack on one of the cases against you.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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It doesn't make you not town, just not scum at least in the way he seems to be trying to be accusing you of.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I don't think anyone is anywhere near obvtown, FTRis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Considering that I was the very first person to come up with the ideaIn post 66, Venmar wrote:
eh i'd lean notIn post 61, Farkran wrote:@Venmar do you think Enter is town?
for the record i don't actually mind volunteering to being part of the no-lynch group as long as enter is in it.
as well as the first person to volunteer
this is remarkably petty
but also kinda funny in a not laugh out loud kinda way.
alright whatever i see this isn't actually all that helpful.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Just posting here because Venmar has absolutely no control over what I do. I'm staying until end game because I want to not because anyone else is trying to make me. So there. I can be petty too.
Actually I'm kinda pissed that he said that as if I didn't come up with the idea or volunteer myself to be the first one. I don't know why. It really doesn't matter, but I've been thinking about it for hours and I'm still mad about it.
Wow I hate this game so much.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I'm probably one of the pettiest people alive.
I don't know how on earth it escalated from me asking how does Farkran's vote push a mime Wincon into Venmar making claims left and right out his rear about "people should have a read on both me and Enter right now" "I have reads on Enter, Farkran, etc" right now. Oh wait, yes I do.
Venmar, dude, I asked you a question. You don't have to make stuff up to justify your reasoning, you can just say "I just didn't like it."is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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VOTE: Venmar
I actually don't care what his alignment is, I think everyone else in this game I either know or has been relatively agreeable so far, and I find I usually only have difficulties with one or two players a game anyways, so I'm gonna push this for a bit until we work things out or he gets lynched. I think the odds are in our favor that he's town and if he's a mime then we can afford to take one hit. It should become pretty obvious who his buddies are anyways if he's a mime, but I kinda doubt it and I really don't care long run. We're gonna win this game anyways, so. *shrug*is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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No. No reads right now. Nothing's strong enough yet for me to share really, it's just gonna be a bunch of fence-sitting.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I'll give you more as far as reads later, probably. Oh darn we're on 6 pages already. Alright well it's time for me to head out. I'm probably going to be significantly less spammy in days to come, unless someone wants to pick a fight with me again in which case I will be very involved.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Last post for now, I promise, unless someone asks me a question in the next like... five minutes or so.
By fence-sitty here I mean that I haven't seen anything from anyone that makes me feel particularly stable in my read of them, and I've found that sharing reads early, quickly, and often leads to vertigo because they're often really weak and then I get stuck pushing a lynch I don't really believe in -- nobody likes that, so I stopped doing it. In theory. There are a couple other pro-town reasons for this, too, but I don't like sharing some of them in the open particularly because it makes their effect somewhat weaker. This being said I will probably try and be more deliberate about trying not to reveal what my instantaneous read is on any particular player at any particular moment - questions that might seem to give that away should not be taken as indicative of my read on said player.In post 126, Enter wrote:No. No reads right now. Nothing's strong enough yet for me to share really, it's just gonna be a bunch of fence-sitting.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I think you're reading things that aren't there, and that's fine cuz I might have been doing a little of that, too.In post 139, Venmar wrote:i think you need to take a step back enter. i wasn't personally attacking you, and i'm not making things up out of malice or just to spite you. last thing i want is for you to be unduly upset. but you came at me pretty hard and as far as i can tell, you really blew my read out of proportion and now became upset over it. i was content to leave my initial read of farkran as the slight sus ping it was, and it was just a ping, i've already said that farkrans more recent posting is a lot better, you're the one that really wanted to hammer me down to a hard scum read. i gave you my reasoning, which fine, you disagree with, but it's unfair to say that i am "making things up", which i'm not, and then throw a tantrum as if i attacked you personally, which i didn't, and it's childish to put the burden of that tantrum on the game.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Let's pretend for this game that I'm a mime -> my alignment is not in question. I think this makes it somewhat easier to figure the game out due to the smaller pool of players to read and the fewer possible vanity wagons.In post 142, Venmar wrote:enter are you genuine about your mime claim? are you actually claiming mime? because i've been reading this game as of so far just entirely ignoring that as a jokeis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Pretending that me calling you out as someone who should stay behind when you had made no move to do so on your own prior is the same as you saying you will only stay behind if I do when I had made it very clear in my first couple posts of the game that was the only thing I was going to do is ridiculous on a whole nother scale. I was trying to make sure a very slight scum read didn't get lynched, you were trying to make it seem like you had any sort of control over what I do.In post 139, Venmar wrote:also, enter, for the record, if you're going to be upset about me wanting you to be a volunteer alongside me, just remember you did the same thing first to me:is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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this is dismissive and presents gamma as doing something he's not.
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Ah yes, my favorite - mod confirmed town players are the only players with reads worth having.In post 176, Map Wolf wrote:I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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What? Why do you put more weight on lynching your strongest TR on day 1? It would seem it would be more important in future days, policy lynching seems like it's probably better earlier in the game than later.In post 166, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.
And I am very much for policy lynching. I think policy lynches have won games before, and they're undervalued and underappreciated ways to better manage the game from a town perspective.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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+1In post 183, Wake1 wrote:
Hardly.In post 176, Map Wolf wrote:I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.
I'm ConfTown, not informed.
I'm townreading this guy.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I thought the goal for most people in this game was to get shot.In post 185, Wake1 wrote:
I'd shoot you if you didn't after my uncontested reveal.In post 184, Enter wrote:
+1In post 183, Wake1 wrote:
Hardly.In post 176, Map Wolf wrote:I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.
I'm ConfTown, not informed.
I'm townreading this guy.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Have you ever experienced a policy lynch before, or is this merely a theoretical opposition?In post 189, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
Well, I’m not a fan of pls as you know, unless very extreme circumstances and I don’t really see what Venmar has done to even warrant a policy lynch?In post 180, Enter wrote:
What? Why do you put more weight on lynching your strongest TR on day 1? It would seem it would be more important in future days, policy lynching seems like it's probably better earlier in the game than later.In post 166, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.
And I am very much for policy lynching. I think policy lynches have won games before, and they're undervalued and underappreciated ways to better manage the game from a town perspective.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I see. I think you should try it. I have done so recently and I think games are so much better when you don't stress the whole time about only lynching purely because a player must be scum.In post 192, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
I was in a game where a player literally refused to ever vote but nevertheless continued to prod dodge, so we lynched him because the mechanics were votes heavy and a non-voting slot was a threat to the game - which is as close as I’ve ever gotten. Like I said, I’m not a fan without a damn good reason and you still haven’t explained why Venmar would even be deserving of one.In post 190, Enter wrote:
Have you ever experienced a policy lynch before, or is this merely a theoretical opposition?In post 189, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
Well, I’m not a fan of pls as you know, unless very extreme circumstances and I don’t really see what Venmar has done to even warrant a policy lynch?In post 180, Enter wrote:
What? Why do you put more weight on lynching your strongest TR on day 1? It would seem it would be more important in future days, policy lynching seems like it's probably better earlier in the game than later.In post 166, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.
And I am very much for policy lynching. I think policy lynches have won games before, and they're undervalued and underappreciated ways to better manage the game from a town perspective.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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VOTE: Rau
I support this plan. Also I'm a mime, so don't shoot or lynch me unless it's a last resort sort of deal.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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People leaving Rau wagon make me nervous.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I don't want Farkran dead. They're probably town and I'd rather have them around because I work well with them, I think, and I'd rather have town that is more obviously town for later when lynching is slightly more difficult.
Rau's contribution is purely mechanical. I don't expect to see any addition as far as solving from that slot later in the game - he seems like the type of player to have a solid mechanics based understanding of the game but I'm not certain about his ability to read people. In addition, I fear that he will likely get shaded later due to this fact, his style seems very much to be one that would be easy to come off as scummy due to his tone, so this is a good day 1 lynch.
Venmar is also a good lynch because I don't trust him. We can bite a mime bullet early easier than a mime bullet later, and I don't want him getting in the way. I don't like his process and I think regardless of his alignment he could be dangerous to town later.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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It's important to remember that lynches on players of the correct alignment will be significantly easier this game than they will in other games because a majority of players someone would pick are likely to be town.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Rautherdir's plan is good because if all the mimes stuck together we now have a 100% chance of winning the game. If the mimes are split, I'm pretty sure we still have a pretty solid chance to win (although I don't know if it's any better than the one we have before his plan. This is another point towards lynching him first - if he flips mime, we know there are mimes in both groups and his plan is dumpstered. If he flips town, I think it's relatively likely that we manage to win this following his plan (or slightly altered versions of it depending on the situation).is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I'm a mime traitor, so I'm really not sure who the other mime partners are right now, but I have a few guesses and I'll out them when I figure it out.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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I really wish someone was here to talk to, but I guess it's ok that there isn't?is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Right.In post 360, DrDolittle wrote:354 is a big commitment and im not sure that mimes would do that
So killing Rau is a pretty solid choice at this point.is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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VOTE: Hectic I think this is the next best place to go, but I'm pretty ok with pretty much anyone except myself in the second group (Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, and DrDolittle) for varying reasons. I'd rather keep Farkran with me for a while longer if people are ok with that, but that's kind of selfish of me so I don't really care all that muchis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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democratic vig?
what are your thoughts on who should be voted?is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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just so we can see where everyone stands, I'd like everyone to, in their next post, point out the next player they'd like to see lynched from this list: (Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, and DrDolittle) or vote for siad player with maybe a little short blurb on whyis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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I'd also prefer it if we waited at least 48 hours before hammering just so we can discuss a little bit (i know this is pretty unlikely, but I think preparation will help us quite a bit in the long run)is cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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like ideally we get input from everyone before hammeringis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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well considering we've only had 4 people total post since the flip, they didn't necessarily know which side we would choose.In post 376, DrDolittle wrote:my only issue today is that from scum pov if we follow rauth, the game is deterministic, and the fact that they are not swarming out veto-ing the plan suggests that there is mime in the volunteer group.
but it does not mean that we still shouldn't follow the plan, so shrug.
that said i don't think i intend to follow the plan in it's entirety. even if we lynch all of the other four players from rauth's list on this side, i don't want myself lynched. don't worry we won't follow blindly - most of us are capable human beings taht will appply thoughtis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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like the only person opposing the plan right now, ironically, is you.
i know that's one of the weird catch-22s of mafia (of which there are many - "i resist this lynch because there hasn't been any resistance to this lynch", etc) but i do want to say that it's quite possible that you and I are both mimes
i intend to play my mime like i want town to win, so it makes sense that you would be the only person opposing this
all i'm saying is it seems rather foolish of you to only bring this up now, and i do want to point out that you also refused to point out the reason you voted farkran - you've been talking about how to treat the vig and the amount of resistance the plan is getting, neither of which are specific reads on players, and tbh that doesn't look all too good on your partis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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i'm a mimeIn post 378, DrDolittle wrote:why dont you want yourself lynched?
also if i die right now i don't get to enjoy any of the mafia game and i really just wanna be part of the whole solving process and everythingis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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ok i'm not actually a mime, but like it's fun to say that i am and in the end it doesn't really matter because i shouldn't be a topic of lynching anyways
because one less person in the lynch pool makes this just slightly easier for towna nyways, i thinkis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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like let's say that people wanted me lynched right now
and let's say that there was another town wagon
now there's a question about whether or not one of us is scum and it gives scum an opportunity to push a third vote or soemthing stupid like that
and because town can't decide between two town members, now we lynch scum instead because scum was easier to lynch
i'd like to avoid situations like that i think it's just optimal if i stay out of the lynch poolis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies
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at least that's how i see itis cancelled. Apologies to all who signed up.[/color]-
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Enter for the homies