Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[hasdgfas]

vote: Y

Y not?

[hasdgfas]

Y should I?

Don't ask him, you fool. Of course he'll say not to bandwagon him.

[hasdgfas]

voting for a self-voter, eh elmo? How often do you find them to be scum?

[hasdgfas]

It's page 3.

I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.

unvote, Vote: Mizzy

You can definitely find reasons for early votes. You can't just throw early pages out the window because "it's the random voting stage." If someone doesn't find something out of it, it will never turn into anything useful.

[hasdgfas]

It seemed to me like you were saying "Let's not worry about the early pages" when you said:

Damn, we went from fun little random votes to "I think such and such is scum and here's why." What the hell?

It's page 3.

I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.

That seems to me to be saying that the early pages don't matter because it's hard to find scum during them. While that may be true, I feel that it's important to get out of the "random voting stage" as early as possible. Saying that it's page 3 and we have no basis to think anyone is scum is, to me, like saying that those pages don't matter very much and we shouldn't pay attention to them. So any misrepresentation of you was simply because that's how I viewed your post.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

Capricious, if you want to discuss it, then discuss it. And you definitely can't meta yourself based on that one game. I'm

this

close to voting you right now. I need to see some excellent contribution in order to keep from voting you.

[hasdgfas]

Ah, but if I had voted you would be calling me scummy for putting a fourth vote on you for little reason. If you had less than 3 votes on you currently, it would have been a vote, but putting you at L-2 at this point is a bit harsh

[hasdgfas]

this is false, contrary to popular opinion,

I do not believe

L-2 and L-1 votes are scummy just because they are L-2 and L-1. The scummiest votes,

I believe

are the keystone votes, the votes that propel the wagon to a point of no return. This may be even the 2nd or 3rd vote, or it may be a later vote.

The key here is that you believe that. My feeling is that a wagon shouldn't get to L-2 unless someone is really scummy. You simply believing that the 2nd or 3rd vote is scummier doesn't mean that it's correct.

I didn't vote for you previously because:
a) It would have been L-2
b) I didn't have a good, solid reason to get you to that point

I think that an L-2 vote should have good reasoning behind it, just because of how close it gets someone to a lynch.

[hasdgfas]

Seriously, I don't see where Capri connects you, and the divergence of opinions between Capri and Y looks like distancing as much as the Capri/Cow pair.

Since disagreeing/arguing always is distancing

[hasdgfas]

Adding to this discussion, while sometimes it is unavoidable to use WIFOM, townies should try their hardest to refrain from using it on purpose in any situation.

Adding a little something to andy's quote:

And since WIFOM can be avoided, adding it

purposefully

is anti-town at its minimum.

If you say something that you don't know is WIFOM and you state it, then other people can point it out. But if you throw in something purposefully, it ends up confusing the townies in a way that is similar to what mafia are trying to do. Simply, don't do that as a townie. If you do, it can be very scummy.

[hasdgfas]

POst tomorrow.

I hate it when people do this.

FoS: Zindaras

[hasdgfas]

Caprcious's posts 192-195 are a load of crap. You can't seriously pass that off as the best contribution you can muster, in addition to 194 being full of Craplogic(TM). I'm very confident in you being scum, because if you were town, I feel you would have found other things to comment on besides just what you did. There has been lots of discussion since your previous posts, and

that

is what you comment on?

vote: Capricious

Can someone point me to the case against Andycyca? Because I really don't see it.

[hasdgfas]

"feel" is the best and only basis there is.

what are you talking about?

[hasdgfas]

Unless I'm totally missing the point of all that, Andy's vote is immovable.

[hasdgfas]

How did you form that conclusion?

He's unvoted previously, when he unvoted and then voted Rotten Snitch.

So if it turns out that his vote IS immovable, you have a lot of explaining to do for knowing that for no reason.


Wow I'm in both flavor scenes.

Please re-read and note that two different people are attempting to move Andy's vote to 'Unvote' but don't. What other conclusion would you come to? It was my first thought after seeing that the flavor says that they couldn't move it.

[hasdgfas]

No lynch would definitely be bad, but the only person I'd be happy lynching is Capricious because he hasn't really contributed as much as I think he's capable of.

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas

: I can certainly see why you'd think that he can contribute more than he is/has, but can I ask why that makes you feel okay with lynching him? Seems like a bit of a cop-out lynch. Granted, any lynch is better than no-lynch, but I would seriously prefer going for a lynch and not a mis-lynch. Do you feel Capricious is scum? If not, why are you willing to lynch someone you don't think is scum?

I'm okay with lynching him because from his posts, what I've gathered is that he tries to say as little as possible while seeming to contribute. Let me pull out some examples:

Sir Tornado is in this game?

I am confident RS and Mizzy are town

Skruffs is also solid town

hi

Then there are a bunch of posts that are, to me, full of crap:

Elmo is a good town for defending someone (me) for their vague comment:
"feel is the best and only basis there is" in spite of some lumped together turtles.

Someone is

town

for defending someone else's vague/strange comment?

Unvote, Vote: Capricious

need a lynch, but come to your senses and lynch Andycyca day 2

A self-vote in addition to saying we should lynch Andy day 2, but he doesn't give any reasoning.

"feel", what more is there?

"feel" is the best and only basis there is.

This just makes no sense at all. Sounds like a scum cop-out to giving reasons to me.



So basically: Yes, I feel he's scum. He's been pushing an andycyca lynch without explaining why andy is scum. (A relatively common scum tactic from what I've seen, argument through repetition). Many of his posts have been extremely contentless when he could easily have contributed more in many of his posts. When he does contribute, his logic seems more like scumlogic than townlogic.

vote: Capricious

[hasdgfas]

Oh, and hasdgfas, I think you were already voting for Capri.

haha, whoops, misread the previous VC

[hasdgfas]

pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concluders

But you're not creating

anything.

You're the one tagging along. Your big comment here just says that you're admitting to be scum.

[hasdgfas]

So Capricious, what exactly is your case on me? Are you only suspicious of me because I posted a large case on you? If not, could you point me towards your case on you if you have one?

[hasdgfas]

Capricious still hasn't told us about his suspicions on myself or Zindaras, making me think that it's only there to look like he's contributing.

[hasdgfas]

A lynch is almost

always

better than a no-lynch. That way you can analyze voting patterns and other things from the lynch. It also gives us less people to find the mafia from in later days. There are certain instances in which no lynch is good, Day 1 is never one of those instances.

Has Capricious claimed?

[hasdgfas]

Eldarad, hasdgfas, Skruffs, I'd like ze case on Capri as justification for your votes from each of you.

No offense Elmo, but are you reading the game? I posted my case on Capri when Mizzy asked for it a page or two ago.

[hasdgfas]

It's page 3.

I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.

unvote, Vote: Mizzy

You can definitely find reasons for early votes. You can't just throw early pages out the window because "it's the random voting stage." If someone doesn't find something out of it, it will never turn into anything useful.

No pro-town presence in this post. Had hascow only pointed out that he believes early pages are useful, it would be a null tell. But he didn't, he used this as an explanation for his vote. I see no reason to change votes to Mizzy just based on this. You can't honestly believe that if Mizzy were scum, she will throw her hands up and surrender on this issue, one that is a debatable one.

I always find it anti-town when someone says that the early pages aren't a basis for finding scum because that's a totally false statement. It's a perfectly legitimate reason for voting for someone. I find it scummy when someone says that. You may disagree, but I'm not budging on that issue.

It seemed to me like you were saying "Let's not worry about the early pages" when you said:

Damn, we went from fun little random votes to "I think such and such is scum and here's why." What the hell?

It's page 3.

I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.

That seems to me to be saying that the early pages don't matter because it's hard to find scum during them. While that may be true, I feel that it's important to get out of the "random voting stage" as early as possible. Saying that it's page 3 and we have no basis to think anyone is scum is, to me, like saying that those pages don't matter very much and we shouldn't pay attention to them. So any misrepresentation of you was simply because that's how I viewed your post.

1st part: antagonizes Mizzy, tries to get town to feel that Mizzy is careless and scummy

2nd part: patches relationship up "simple misunderstanding"

Hello Mr. Misrepresentation! I'm not antagonizing Mizzy, I'm talking to her about what I saw in her post. In case you didn't notice, she said something to me about it previously and how she didn't understand where I was coming from. I'm clarifying. Antagonizing?

Seriously?

unvote

Capricious, if you want to discuss it, then discuss it. And you definitely can't meta yourself based on that one game. I'm

this

close to voting you right now. I need to see some excellent contribution in order to keep from voting you.

Establishes that hascow is voting based on contribution, not who he feels is scum.

Strawman. Classic case. I never said this vote was based on contribution. Saying you're going to discuss something, then not discussing it is scummy, that's the reason that I said it the way I did. If you truly had something you were going to discuss, your following contribution would be excellent, which is why I was giving you the benefit of the doubt right now. I've seen people say that and come back with excellent contribution. I've also seen people say that and come back with total crap. If you're going to say that and not discuss it at that time, you need to come back with something good or it's scummy.

Ah, but if I had voted you would be calling me scummy for putting a fourth vote on you for little reason. If you had less than 3 votes on you currently, it would have been a vote, but putting you at L-2 at this point is a bit harsh

Again:

1st part: antagonizes Cap, tries to make town believe that he erred

2nd part: patches relations up

Again, antagonizing? Seriously? According to this, anytime people disagree, it's antagonizing the other person.

Seriously, I don't see where Capri connects you, and the divergence of opinions between Capri and Y looks like distancing as much as the Capri/Cow pair.

Since disagreeing/arguing always is distancing

Honesty shines through in this post. Of course, he wasn't distancing himself from me, and he feels righteous to point this out.

I really hate it when people call it "distancing" every time that two people disagree and get into a discussion/argument in-thread. It's not always distancing, it can sometimes be a townie arguing with a townie or a townie arguing with a scum. Yes, sometimes it can be scum arguing with scum, but your basis behind calling it distancing shouldn't be just an argument.

POst tomorrow.

I hate it when people do this.

FoS: Zindaras

Purpose for this?

People who make posts like that are actively lurking. They make it look like they're contributing by saying that they'll contribute soon, but often, the other players just forget about it and let them continue refusing to contribute. While it's done by both scum and town, my feeling is: If you make a post in-thread, it should have some game discussion in it. I'm not a perfect example of this, but I try.

Caprcious's posts 192-195 are a load of crap. You can't seriously pass that off as the best contribution you can muster, in addition to 194 being full of Craplogic(TM). I'm very confident in you being scum, because if you were town, I feel you would have found other things to comment on besides just what you did. There has been lots of discussion since your previous posts, and

that

is what you comment on?

vote: Capricious

Can someone point me to the case against Andycyca? Because I really don't see it.

Easy way to buddy up

I haven't seen a case on him. How exactly is that buddying up? Other players have said that as well.

Yes someone is town for defending another town's vague comment. At the time, it would be putting themselves in the spotlight to be a lawyer to another play, particular when a number of players had already expressed disdain and confusion toward the comment. He was risking having to explain himself for it. Scum prefer to avoid.

False blanket statement. Scum often defend a player's vague comment so that player can have a warm, fuzzy feeling about the scum later. I believe it's called "buddying up." Something you happened to accuse me of doing, as a matter of fact. Why are you exempt from it but when I do something that can barely be called buddying up at all, you use it as a case against me?

Incidentally, hascow's examples of my contributions are nice, I have named several players who I feel are solid town, a bad scum play without me even being prompted to do so.

Naming several players who are solid town is a bad scum play? I disagree, it's good scum play, because it can often get townies to post who they think are the most town, leading to an easier NK for the scum. It's bad town play for the same reason.

I will argue that the eight words "I am confident RS and Mizzy are town" hold more contribution in them than half of this game.

But when you have no reasoning behind it, that's simply not the case at all. It can barely even be considered contribution because you're not providing background. I can say "I'm confident [insert name here] is scum" like I did a few posts ago about you. However, Mizzy wanted more of a case with actual reasons. You need reasons for it to actually be useful. In fact, saying that in that way is something that scum would be more likely to do because they know who is town, and could say it while being correct.

PPE:

voting for a self-voter, eh elmo? How often do you find them to be scum?

Interesting how he is voting for a self-voter, what could possibly have caused the shift in opinion?

Thanks for strawmanning again, Capricious. I'm not voting you because you're self-voting. I have other reasons behind it. Elmo didn't appear to have any so I called him out on it.

[hasdgfas]

I always find it anti-town when someone says that the early pages aren't a basis for finding scum because that's a totally false statement. It's a perfectly legitimate reason for voting for someone. I find it scummy when someone says that. You may disagree, but I'm not budging on that issue.

Except that I didn't say that the early pages aren't basis for scumhunting; I said I didn't think that anyone could say

for sure

who is scum and who isn't on page 3.

Right, which is what I was responding to in the post Capricious quoted, but he seemed to think I was antagonizing you. I totally understand where you're coming from now.

[hasdgfas]

It's a policy lynch/lynch policy in the sense that I think self-voting is an indicator of being scum, and my policy is to lynch scum.

Eh, I've seen just as many town do it as scum. It's stupid, and not terribly pro-town, but that doesn't make it scummy in my eyes, I suppose.

Yes, it is mostly stupid, but I've seen both scum and town do it to try to avoid a lynch, so while we shouldn't necessarily vote someone for self-voting, we shouldn't necessarily get off someone's case because they've self-voted to get them closer to a lynch.

[hasdgfas]

hi guys

[hasdgfas]

Capri needs to answer my question ASAP, and if he wants to claim he should do it now. We're going to screw up and miss a deadline eventually, we don't have time to waste here.

[hasdgfas]

I DISLIKE how you are asking if Capri has claimed. We have been making the deadline so far each time and as far as I know. In post 347 you are looking for a claim and it is no where near the chopping block for Capri yet.

Capri is at L-2 and we're in the deadline block. If he doesn't claim, we're just prolonging this for no reason. If he claims something we believe, we have time to find someone else to lynch. Prolonging it, while supposedly helping us have more discussion, just seems to be. "Hi, where's Capri?" That's not helping anyone. He needs to claim so we can get somewhere.

[hasdgfas]

Deadline post.

[hasdgfas]

To me, it appears the Capri really doesn't care about defending himself, or he'd be doing more of it. I'm already voting him, or I'd probably hammer. He

still

hasn't claimed, and he definitely needs to do that to, IMO, have any chance of avoiding the noose.

Although this is an interesting deadline mechanic, it gets less fun when it turns into what we have here, a bunch of people pretty much showing up saying that more people need to say something.

[hasdgfas]

According to Y's post, the major driving force behind lynching Capri was because he was doing some stupid shit. Not that he was doing scummy shit. What gives with that? If we lynched every moron, we'd have more ghost-towns than anything.

Lurking isn't scummy? Using wrong/baseless accusations to put suspicion on people isn't scummy? What about not adding real info for discussion, while trying to appear as if he does?

You can't say he wasn't scummy. I saw him doing the same mistakes he did here when he was my scum partner. What I got from his play style (And you can clearly see it in post 38), is that he tries to get rid of the stronger players and remain with the weaker ones. You can definitely see that in Newbie 546 (Post 106 on that game, in particular).

But the same can be said for other people in this game, too...lurking, posting no content, making shit up to drive suspicion on other targets...which has been my point all along. You guys held Capri to a standard that you won't hold anyone else to. You said he was scummy for it, but what about everyone else who's done it, too? It's all hypocritical.

Except that there haven't really been other people who are doing those same things. If you could provide examples of people who are doing the same thing, maybe it would help your point a bit more.
Making things up to drive suspicion is

scummy

. There needs to be something concrete there and Capri wasn't giving us good reasons to suspect people.

[hasdgfas]

Andy's hammer: bad, but understandable. I'm not saying it's excusable, but it's understandable. I really wish he had provided reasoning as to why he thought Capri was scum and/or needed to be lynched instead of simply hammering.

a fatwa is what now?

This was supposed to be in my last post but disappeared:
skruffs: Seriously? You find people to be buddying because they don't

quote

each other? That is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Why is it necessary for each person to directly address each other person, anyway?


471 I need to read a couple more times, but it's quite interesting to me as of right now.

This was supposed to be in the last post too:
Mizzy's attitude towards the people on the Capricious lynch is really scummy to me. Mizzy wasn't doing anything to get a lynch, and it looked like she wanted to no-lynch, which wouldn't have helped anyone except the scum. She wasn't doing anything to get the wagon off of Capri either. She didn't have another target for us. To me, it seemed like she wanted to be off-wagon so as not to come under suspicion and so she could hold it over our heads today, while she was actually fine with Capri getting lynched because she's scum and knew he was town. If she actually was serious about not wanting him lynched, she could have provided another option for us instead of saying "he's town, don't lynch him" then today saying "I told you so" which is actually a scumtell and leads me to a

FoS: Mizzy

I thought I had posted more in this game recently Plus, the plethora of insanely large posts recently makes me a bit wary of perusing them, because I don't want to take that kind of time.

[hasdgfas]

Mizzy, maybe the reason you're coming under suspicion is because you deserve it. Sometimes the "easy" target can be the right target. Going after someone you find scummy is what you're supposed to do, no matter how many other people find them scummy. "I told you so" is most definitely a valid scumtell. I've caught people from it before, so calling it crap is wrong.

413 is not really that good of a post. Again, examples. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like you're doing anything to get the wagon off of him.
445 is pretty much the same thing. You're stating your opinion. I don't see you doing anything to move the wagon away from him. It seems like you just want to say that you don't like the lynch, but don't actually

do

anything to get it off of him other than say that you don't like it.

Except that there haven't really been other people who are doing those same things. If you could provide examples of people who are doing the same thing, maybe it would help your point a bit more.
Making things up to drive suspicion is

scummy

. There needs to be something concrete there and Capri wasn't giving us good reasons to suspect people.

RS and Skruffs have actually both done it and have both been under fire for it. If you would like some quoted examples, let me know...I'll take
some time and go back and grab them.

Wait, so first you say that we haven't held others to the same standard, and then you say that they've both been under fire for it? Which is it, exactly? Also, quoted examples would be lovely.

[hasdgfas]

The case against me consists of one real point...the fact that I was not on the wagon that mislynched a townie. Not a very strong case, honestly. I thought you were better than that, Has.

You weren't on

any

wagon. You didn't vote for anyone at the end of day 1. While you may think there's only one real point, I feel there are multiple points.
You weren't on the wagon, which really isn't my main point at all.
You weren't voting for anyone, which, especially with these deadline rules, is a vote for no-lynch, not what we want to do at all.
The "I told you so." You may not like it, but it is scummy.
You really didn't try to get the wagon to go anywhere else. If you want people to not lynch someone, get the pressure off of them by applying it to someone else. Sitting back saying "he's town, he's town" won't help at all. Sorry.
You may think my reasons are crap, and you're entitled to your opinion on them for sure, but don't misrepresent the case by saying there's only one main real point, when there are multiple real points, even though they may not be ones that you agree with.

[hasdgfas]

Somewhat in-depth analysis of 471:

You're not particularly hypocritical, I just see you claiming that Andy's lynch was "necessary", when I see it completely and utterly differently. The only necessary lynches are scum lynches.

An excellent point. They are technically the only necessary lynches. I agree that it wasn't a necessary lynch. Capricious was my main suspect, however, so I thought it was a good lynch, especially since he didn't seem to care enough to defend himself.

You see, I see you saying that no other lynch was going to happen, but I see you claiming you would've preferred someone else. I see Skruffs saying that he's just ensuring a Day 1 lynch. I see Y claiming Capri's not his main suspect. I see Andy, where I'm not sure what he was thinking.

Interesting observation. It is true, from what I can see, and not really a good thing to be doing at all. Since there's no "hard deadline" in this game from what I can tell, you still can try to convince people to switch suspects if you don't like the wagon of choice at the time. Don't just resign yourself to the lynch of someone that you think is time because "it's necessary." It isn't. Make a good case on someone else and a better lynch can happen.

But, if you look at the "real" vote count, you see something interesting (before Andy's hammer):

2 Capricious (eldarad, hasdgfas)
1 Andycyca (Elmo)
1 hasdgfas (Capricious)
1 Mizzy (Skruffs)
1 Skruffs (Y)
1 Y (Zindaras)

4 Unvote (Mizzy, Rotten Snitch, Andycyca, Yosarian2)

I have no idea where you would've put your vote because I don't think you ever said anything about your main suspect (and I'm skimming because I want sleep), but, basically, the people who just wanted to assure a lynch? They're the ones who got Capricious killed.

Interesting again. It seems like just because the most discussion was about Capricious before the deadline insanity votes, that was why Capricious was the one chosen. Those who just jumped on to ensure a lynch could probably have convinced the town to jump onto a different suspect if there was a good case, but nobody seemed to care enough. I wonder why that is.

[hasdgfas]

Oh, and just so everyone knows, here's my current scumdar, on a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 is scummy and 1 is town:

hasdgfas - 7
eldarad - 7
Skruffs - 5
Andycyca - 5
Rotten Snitch - 5
Y - 3
Zindaras - 2
Yosarian2 - 1

Interesting. The people who jumped onto the Capri wagon with pretty much no reasoning are less scummy than eldarad and I, who had both been voting him for a while, and , coincedentally(sp?), are both suspicious of you right now.

[hasdgfas]

Oooh, Skruffs is on the defense when there was no attack. Why so jumpy?

Mizzy, if you're trying to say that he's being overdefensive, just stop and get off of that line of thought.

[hasdgfas]

That's my point: You're saying that, while doing the opposite.

Like I said before, if I were attacking someone, you'd see FoSes and votes from me. Just because you say what I am doing is attacking doesn't make it so.

Just because it doesn't look like attacking to you doesn't mean it's not.

[hasdgfas]

Anyway, we need to wagon someone, and we need to do it now, we've got no time. Why are so many people not voting? Are people so afraid of another bad bandwagn that we're just going to no-lynch today? What the heck?

I'm still thinking either Rotton Snitch or eldarad is fine. I'm actually a bit more suspicious of Rotton Snitch at the moment

unvote

vote:Rotton Snitch

I don't really like the Mizzy wagon, but we need to move SOMEWHERE. Everyone needs to get in here and vote, and they need to do it now.

Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.

[hasdgfas]

471 I need to read a couple more times, but it's quite interesting to me as of right now.

Recheck, did you respond to this?

Yes, you quoted it later in this post.

This was supposed to be in the last post too:
Mizzy's attitude towards the people on the Capricious lynch is really scummy to me. Mizzy wasn't doing anything to get a lynch, and it looked like she wanted to no-lynch, which wouldn't have helped anyone except the scum. She wasn't doing anything to get the wagon off of Capri either. She didn't have another target for us. To me, it seemed like she wanted to be off-wagon so as not to come under suspicion and so she could hold it over our heads today, while she was actually fine with Capri getting lynched because she's scum and knew he was town. If she actually was serious about not wanting him lynched, she could have provided another option for us instead of saying "he's town, don't lynch him" then today saying "I told you so" which is actually a scumtell and leads me to a

FoS: Mizzy

What do you think of Rotten Snitch's non-voting?

Yesterday, today?

Somewhat in-depth analysis of 471:

You're not particularly hypocritical, I just see you claiming that Andy's lynch was "necessary", when I see it completely and utterly differently. The only necessary lynches are scum lynches.

An excellent point. They are technically the only necessary lynches. I agree that it wasn't a necessary lynch. Capricious was my main suspect, however, so I thought it was a good lynch, especially since he didn't seem to care enough to defend himself.

You see, I see you saying that no other lynch was going to happen, but I see you claiming you would've preferred someone else. I see Skruffs saying that he's just ensuring a Day 1 lynch. I see Y claiming Capri's not his main suspect. I see Andy, where I'm not sure what he was thinking.

Interesting observation. It is true, from what I can see, and not really a good thing to be doing at all. Since there's no "hard deadline" in this game from what I can tell, you still can try to convince people to switch suspects if you don't like the wagon of choice at the time. Don't just resign yourself to the lynch of someone that you think is time because "it's necessary." It isn't. Make a good case on someone else and a better lynch can happen.

But, if you look at the "real" vote count, you see something interesting (before Andy's hammer):

2 Capricious (eldarad, hasdgfas)
1 Andycyca (Elmo)
1 hasdgfas (Capricious)
1 Mizzy (Skruffs)
1 Skruffs (Y)
1 Y (Zindaras)

4 Unvote (Mizzy, Rotten Snitch, Andycyca, Yosarian2)

I have no idea where you would've put your vote because I don't think you ever said anything about your main suspect (and I'm skimming because I want sleep), but, basically, the people who just wanted to assure a lynch? They're the ones who got Capricious killed.

Interesting again. It seems like just because the most discussion was about Capricious before the deadline insanity votes, that was why Capricious was the one chosen. Those who just jumped on to ensure a lynch could probably have convinced the town to jump onto a different suspect if there was a good case, but nobody seemed to care enough. I wonder why that is.

I can hardly disagree with your observations, but I'd so like to hear just a little more than this. Do you think that, given this, it is truely so odd to go crack down somewhat on the people who didn't actually put their money where their mouth was? Do you think that is a scumtell? Then what do you think of Skruffs/Y/Yosarian?

It's only a scumtell if they do it merely for getting a lynch, the way a couple of them did. Those who voted for Capri who didn't find them scummy and who also didn't give good explanations should absolutely be scrutinized. Yosarian's explanation was acceptable to me, but the others haven't really given good reasons for why they felt they needed to vote for Capri.

[hasdgfas]

Yesterday, today?

Both.

I feel like RS has had plenty of good reasons to vote for someone. He's expressed suspicion of multiple people. I'm feeling like he just wants to throw suspicion around without being accused of something if a lynch happens. I'm not reading really closely to get this conclusion, but it seems that way to me by glancing over his posts.

hasdgfas, I still would like you to explain why you would see a mod post saying we have half a week until deadline and your reaction is to actually attack me for trying to encourage people to vote, and to tell me we have "pleanty of time". Why aren't you voting, exactally? Do you really think that you not voting for anyone right now is the correct pro-town move for you to do in this situation?

Why am I not voting? I can't decide whom to vote for right now. I was going to vote Mizzy, but I've seen other things today that make me think differently. It's not an anti-town move necessarily to not vote.
The reason we still have plenty of time is the fact that the deadline mechanic just means we have to talk in order to not no-lynch. We can make this day as long as we want it to be by talking.

[hasdgfas]

A quick skim of Yossy's case on Snitch doesn't really convince me, I'm mostly getting complete newb vibes from him.

Newb, yeah, but more likely newb scum then newb town I think. His day 1 stuff was very wishy washy and noncomittal, makes me feel like he wanted to support the Capi wagon without being a part of it, and the only time he's done anything day 2 has been generally in response to being attacked, and none of it really feels right to me.

I agree with Yosarian2. This was the feeling I've gotten from him as well. Something is off.

[hasdgfas]

Well, yeah, but we're used to people with too many male hormones, not to people with too many female hormones.

Besides, I'm pretty sure you're not a terror in real life. Just terrific. ^_^

You understand the ancient art of pleasing pissy women!

Anyway, back to scumhunting. I'm still undecided about Rotten Snitch and Skruffs both. As you all might remember, RS had grabbed my attention early on for his and Skruffs' odd dynamic, which started from Skruffs pulling needless RL meta information into the game and RS seemed to feel the need to distance the two of them. Certain things do stand out, especially D2, and I definitely could see a RS/Skruffs pairing. I can also see, though, both of them being annoying pro-towners. That's why they are still "undecided" on my scumdar list.

Mizzy, which do you find more likely for each of them? Annoying pro-towner or scum?

[hasdgfas]

hi

[hasdgfas]

This is an excellent question. Skruffs, please do this for us.

[hasdgfas]

welcome back, Mizzy.

[hasdgfas]

These long posts are going to take a while for me to read.

[hasdgfas]

Deadline post.

Tired.

same here. getting through the essay posts takes a lot of energy.

[hasdgfas]

COW

Your last input into the game was over a week ago, when you asked Mizzy if me or Rotten Snitch was more likely annoying pro-town or scum. You did not follow up and have (thankfully) been posting almost every day but haven't been contributing jack. You didn't post yesterday. If you don't pump up your act a bit I am going to think that ALL of the players currently arguing are all pro-town and you're just watching us attack each other. Don't be a scummy lurker.

Skruffs, in case you haven't noticed, since then there have been lots of ridiculously long posts. Those are hard to get through quickly, especially when it's the last week of classes and then finals week. I apologize for not contributing, but I don't really have enough time right now to fully read every post recently. I'm not trying to lurk, but it's really hard when you have to read mini-essays every other post and study for finals.

[hasdgfas]

All right, I've got a couple things to say since I just did a mini-reread of stuff since my last "real" post. This is mostly going to be about RS, just as a heads-up. I'm writing it right now. I'll post what I can in a little while.

[hasdgfas]

All right, I've got a couple things to say since I just did a mini-reread of stuff since my last "real" post. This is mostly going to be about RS, just as a heads-up. I'm writing it right now. I'll post what I can in a little while.

RS post 44 is pretty much full of craplogic. So what if Yosarian hasn't actually convinced anyone else to vote for you? He's voting for you, yet you accuse him of trying to piggyback? That makes no sense at all.

RS post 46. Please don't post inside the quote. It makes it much, much harder to read your points. But anyway, I don't really like this post either. He says that Yosarian jumped onto Capri quickly, but he didn't. Yos gave Capri plenty of time to defend himself before voting for him and yet you accuse him of jumping on quickly? No. Nice try though. Yos hasn't attacked you? Are you seriously trying for that? An accusation is an attack, and he's been accusing you a lot. You're defending yourself, but he's picking apart your posts. That's what he's supposed to do.

RS post 57. Again, don't post inside the quote. Wishy-washy can be quite scummy, because it makes you think that you don't have opinions on people. OMGUS isn't scummy when you have good reasons behind it, but you really didn't, so it just looks bad.

RS post 60. Unnecessary claim and scummy.

Therefore,

vote: RS

I just haven't liked your contribution that much. It's seemed rather.....off.

[hasdgfas]

eldarad, I really hate when people do the "I'll post real content tomorrow." I'm not saying I haven't been guilty of that, but people have wanted you to respond for a few days now. Why couldn't you just split this up into multiple parts so you could get at least a few things out?

[hasdgfas]

LOL what's wrong Yos…night killing me didn't work?

Zindy - I do not know why we went to deadline no-lynch. Looking back at the thread we were at 3/5 and then within 20 minutes of Ether’s post Andy and Skruffs posted.
Ether said we had 4 more hours until deadline but I was under the impression we made deadline.
I think (but could be corrected by Ether) that it was a present to us. No lynch and no night actions maybe? Now we are kind of back at day 2 again and we do not have a deadline looming.

If this is the case then thank you Ether

This is total crap. I'm liking a lynch of you again, just like yesterday.

Major FoS: RS

would be a vote, but that'd be L-2 on the first day of day 3, and I'm not sure we want that.

[hasdgfas]

Rs: why, why, why, why, why, why?

Evidence please. What it looks like to me is that you believe they're scum because they believe you are. Bring out some quotes and search through them to find what's suspicious about them, because I believe them much more than you at this point.

[hasdgfas]

Has- I know you believe them much more than me. Which is good!

Are you saying you're scum?

Unfortunately, this has been a very fun game for me and I really love Mafia Scum but I am not about to wade through 850 posts (151 alone of just Mizzy’s) and burn and hour or more of my life to find quotes that can pinpoint my gut feeling. Which they will end up picking apart and will probably change nothing. Again going on gut here. Sorry. I know this may make me seem even scummier and my motives to the best of my knowledge right now are very pro-town believe it or not. Nothing but endgame conversation can show if my gambit played off.

RS, if you care about the town and want the town to win, you should be able to find enough comments to make a case on one of Mizzy/Yos. I have things to do in life as well, but I try to at least find a few things to say when accusing people.

Also, what gambit?

[hasdgfas]

Yup! And it also means that if scum noticed one or two players idle at that point, they could have no killed to set up a wifom. I'm kind of sad that you would push the point.

....

I agree that it is likely to be a 3 person scum group, but considering the only roles revealed have been townies, there's no way to say WHAT we are arguing against, so.

Well, we also had a Gaoler die. While we don't know what the scumgroup(s) are composed of, since we've had a maximum of one death pernight, we can assume at this point only one group since there's been nothing to contradict that. If there are 2 deaths some night, we can think about it again, but at this point why are you on mizzy for this?

[hasdgfas]

RS, again, why are you saying we're in LYLO?

I'd like to see an answer to this question as well.

[hasdgfas]

I will not say anything because if I am right then it could help the scummies.

-_-
bad idea, RS. Not saying anything helps the scum A LOT more than whatever it is that you might say.

[hasdgfas]

Skruffles you of all people should know I would never kill Strappado

Real convincing there, RS.

[hasdgfas]

I believe skruffs too, since I received something night 1.
I'd rather not say what it is right now, however.

[hasdgfas]

Plus, in your scenario, things still don't necessarily turn out well.
If I claimed to be cop, I'd be NK'ed, show up in the Night message as a villager and so my 'innocent' on RS looks really odd.
If I claimed to be a one-shot cop, it's not obvious that I would be NK'ed as a one-shot cop who has used his shot is a VT. And I wouldn't even be confirmed until either me or RS died. Which, since the scum have no incentive to kill either of us (since it clears the other), could drag on for a while.

That is crap. Why would you claim cop or one-shot cop when all that happened was you received an item to give you an investigation?

[hasdgfas]

I want a lynch soon.

Assuming 3 mafiosi, every single town player needs to post to avoid the no lynch thing, if the mafia choose to lurk. I know that I'll probably lose internet access for a day, or forget, so I really don't want to rely on the deadline shenanigans.

Sigh.

vote: eldarad

I'm not sure if I've missed something or not, but why are you voting eldarad?

[hasdgfas]

Since I think my post at 10:51 doesn't count I'm going to post here for deadline.

[hasdgfas]

Or it's possible scum get a 'kill' every night in the form of an itema nd are going to use all of them at once.

FoS: Skruffs

[hasdgfas]

This is just my opinion, but I feel like the item discussion is distracting us away from scumhunting. Items probably don't tell us anything about the alignment of a player, and unless someone has an item that helped them find scum (good job Eld for the whole RS thing) then I think we should ignore the items and just scumhunt the old-fashioned way. Panic in the streets only helps scum.

Good call.

[hasdgfas]

Don't you FOS me, "Cow who has been lurking"... If we're in secret lylo because hte mafia has an unfair advantage and we have no way of knowing, at least I can say I brought up the idea and gloat about it forever.

Why do you think there were FIVE ITEMS that had not been used yet in teh game? Stacking items makes perfect sense.

Stacking items does make sense, but claiming that the scum get their kills from the items when we have no evidence either way seems a bit odd to me.

[hasdgfas]

eldarad, so now you're backtracking about the RS innocence? Why didn't you fully explain it earlier as opposed to saying 'I got a one-shot cop on RS he was town.' Why putz around the issue like that?
Also, moonshine. Think about werewolves and how they're usually found out, and then think about the item again.

[hasdgfas]

Working but posting for deadline.

[hasdgfas]

Eldarad, you have I think two votes now, and you are still just defending yourself. If you provided a good alternative and voted and made a case I'd consider switching.

Eldarad isn't providing any cases or good alternatives to himself. Nor is anyone else, really.

Sitting around and debating item crap and then possibly missing a lynch is a bad idea.

I expect people to vote eldarad OR present a strong reason why we should lynch someone besides eldarad in their next posts.

Just sitting around debating peripheral setup speculation stuff is NOT beneficial at this point in the game, when we could easily miss a lynch as happened in an earlier day.

~Guardian

I agree with this post.

vote: eldarad

Eld: tell us why we shouldn't lynch you, or you'll almost certainly get lynched.

[hasdgfas]

I'd prefer hearing some more from Andy before I help finish the day.

I endorse this product and/or service.

[hasdgfas]

I would like to hear from Andy's replacement before I can decide if he's scum or not.

MOD:

Is it possible to delay deadline because of the replacement?

Mod has no access until the weekend according to V/LA

[hasdgfas]

as opposed to a regular day, I actually think that a no-lynch won't be such a bad thing, if the alternative is to kill some one just for the sake of killing some one. Especially if the possibility of no NK is as real as in this game, after the last two nights.

Lynching scum, of course, would be much better.

The possibility of a no kill is the REASON we don't want to miss a lynch today.

Remember how I had a list of 4 people, and said that 3 of the 4 of them must be scum? If we lynch every day, and the scum miss at least one more kill before the end of the game, then we have 4 lynches left, and are therefore basically guarenteed to win.

Also, it is starting to seem like you're really trying quite hard to delay or prevent an Eldred lynch here...

I agree with Yosarian2

[hasdgfas]

Oooh.
Yos just shot WAY up there....

For what, exactly?

[hasdgfas]

Happy birthday, Ether!

[hasdgfas]

Wait... if we lynch Eldarad, Guardian *won't* Die tonight?
What are you getting at, Yos?

Skruffs, seriously? What are

you

trying to get at with that post? How could you think that was implied?

[hasdgfas]

Predictable kill after the way yesterday ended.

Reading up.

[hasdgfas]

Why was it a predictable kill, cow?

Well, with the way Yos had gone after eldarad pretty much the entire game, it was pretty much a given that they weren't scum together.

[hasdgfas]

The three most plausible scums left are me, Y, and hasdfgas, and, well, I know its not me. Y didn't really seem interested in the eldarad wagon, tried to derail it by going after yosarian.

Skruffs seemed to be attacking yosarian quite a bit as well, which I found a bit odd. I know people find him to be somewhat cleared, but that really made me suspicious.

[hasdgfas]

I'm willing to state what items I received if it is deemed to be the correct move. I do think, however, that claiming some items might not be a good idea.

[hasdgfas]

Oh, I don't think eldarad fabricated anything. I think he received an item and couldn't decide what to do with it.

What makes you think that?

[hasdgfas]

What makes you think that?

Its a fairly creative claim for little appreciable gain.

What makes you think that claiming an item and usage isn't gain? I noticed that, who was it, Skruffs and Zindy I think?, are now considered partially cleared for the wolfsbane incident or w/e that was. Maybe he was trying the same thing.

[hasdgfas]

Cow is still rather suspicious, from the whole "yos was an obv kill" statement.

Except that he was. I don't get how that's suspicious.

I'm concerned that being in a lylo situation, scum might push for a mislynch. The mizzy-tspn-y chain, I needc to examine that.

Of course scum are going to push for a mislynch. Why would you think otherwise? What are you trying to say here?

[hasdgfas]

*cough y is scum cough*

Is there

anything

implausible about a y-mizzy-eldarad group? I'm feeling like I can take that to the bank.

I don't know. How about you try to convince us of it since most people are thinking you're the scummy one.

[hasdgfas]

Hasdfgas, this is why you need to vote for y. As mizzy just put it, either me and y are buddies, or me and you are buddies.

If me and y are buddies, then the possible scumgroups are me and y, or mizzy and y.

Y being the common denominator, so please vote for him. If I'm his scumbuddy, I won't miss him one bit.

This makes no sense to me at all. I'm not worrying about "common denominators", I'm worrying about finding scum. You appear to be flailing around to find anything you can to try to save yourself.

Re: the bolded part. If you and Y are buddies, then mizzy/Y can be a scumgroup? How, exactly?

[hasdgfas]

Y and mizzy are the scum. Please don't mess it up.

There still isn't

evidence

, TSPN. You're doing this, basically mathematically right now, and that's not how we're supposed to be doing it. Find proof of scumminess. Stop giving us your BS.

[hasdgfas]

/post

[hasdgfas]

doot de doo

[hasdgfas]

So, um, anyone care to talk about anything?

I really would like TSPN to come back and talk, because he's currently my top suspect.

[hasdgfas]

deadline post.

too tired to make a real one, but I should be able to at some point today.

[hasdgfas]

Let's lynch TSPN, and lynch him before we mess up this deadline block madness.

Not so much with this. Is there any particular reason you think mizzy is town? Because she's not.

See, you keep saying this, but I haven't really seen you point out much

actual behavior

that will help convince us. I saw more convincing evidence from you about Y.

Why is mizzy scum, TSN? Please explain.

[hasdgfas]

I received an item n1 as well, which means there were 2 given out that night somehow.

[hasdgfas]

Did you miss the parts where I was very against him but refused to act on that because I wasn't sure if it was my thoughts on him being scum or if my feelings were just OMGUS based? Because I expressed multiple times that I thought he was suspicious.

You expressed multiple times that you thought he was suspicious, but didn't vote for him until you absolutely had to? You're right, that's something scumbuddies never do.

Cautious townies do that too, TSN.

[hasdgfas]

hi guys.

[hasdgfas]

I have a busy day today. Hopefully I can say something useful when I get back from work tonight.

[hasdgfas]

I really haven't seen a good defense from TSN. He just seems to be attacking Mizzy without extremely good reasons.

[hasdgfas]

Posting.
Not willing to possibly mislynch on the given options, I Would rather nolynch and see what the night brings.

Do you think TSN is a mislynch? If so, why do you think that?

Could you explain how nolynch will help?

[hasdgfas]

hasdfgh: Have you used your item yet? Was it useful?

I don't technically "use" it, it gets used without my knowledge, but I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been used yet, or I'd most likely be dead right now.

However, tonight I will probably be able to determine if there's another inventor floating around. No, I won't go more into it right now. If that makes a difference in any of today's decisions, I don't know, but it might be useful.

[hasdgfas]

Is Skruffs & TSPN possible?

Sorry for the double post, but yes, I have to wonder if Skruffs and Zindy weren't distancing in the beginning and now I wonder if Skruffs made HIS item up to "clear" Zindy.

I've been wondering that for a little while with the way Skruffs has played. Nobody else has really cared though. I think I mentioned it previously, actually.

Also, I'd be happy with a Y lynch.

[hasdgfas]

We're probably in LYLO, probably two scum left, probably two people to vote TSPN to get him lynched.

My logic says that at least one scum is on that group.

I don't like this post. Could you explain it a little better?

[hasdgfas]

One thing that hasn't been asked yet that I really am curious about...TSNP, Skruffs and Y...what are your excuses for allowing a No Lynch to happen?

Skruffs is dead, so I'll answer instead. It's because I'm an idiot and was sure I had already posted that day.

[hasdgfas]

I'd like to hear from those who allowed the no lynch to happen why they think that play was pro-town and helpful.

Well, it wasn't, but then again, it wasn't my intention to cause a no-lynch.

I'm not looking at you here. I'm looking at hasdgfas and Mizzy.

Neither of them has responded as of yet.

Hey Guardian, I responded to this already. Look back a little bit.

[hasdgfas]

I've been saying that I think TSPN is scum since yesterday. About you, I'm not saying you're definitely scum, but that you're not completely confirmed and we shouldn't ignore the possibility.

if you think TSPN is scum, why are you not voting him?

[hasdgfas]

Did anyone receive anything last night?

[hasdgfas]

Because hasd is

lurker

really busy and TSPN is scum and Y didn't want to be hammered? I hope?

Fixed and I'm sorry
This game keeps leaving my mind for no good reason.

[hasdgfas]

I've got to think I was the target for NK last night. Could be wrong, but to me that makes by far the most sense. Can anyone explain why hasd is alive? Maybe the werewolves just didn't get a kill last night, or NO killed?

I figured if he died and showed up town, it was definitely TSPN. But with both still alive I am unsure, and leaning hasd a bit since TSPN was so active in pushing for Y's lynch. I am pretty much not at all interested in lynching Mizzy today.

I can probably explain why I am still alive. The item I got night 1 was a bandage. basically, when I'm targeted for a NK, my death is delayed. I lost the PM, so I'm not sure whether it's the end of the day or the end of the next night.

[hasdgfas]

/obligatory post and not hammer post. I will have thoughts soon.

[hasdgfas]

Bleh, I played terribly. Sorry all.

Honestly Ether, with no possibility of cross-kills and only one real power role, I feel that this was stacked against the town. We had to make four correct lynches as we didn't have a chance for scum to turn up dead in the morning, and that's really hard to do.

Interesting deadline mechanic, but I'd like some changes. It turned into "/post. /post. /post" and nothing happened. Not a good thing. I've probably got more to say later.

Great work Guardian. Due to the fact that town had no hint of an SK, you did have a bit of an advantage, but you played well as town anyway. I think that's it for now. I've probably got more to say later.

You going to mod something else soon Ether?

[hasdgfas]

You going to mod something else soon Ether?

I promised I'd mod a sequel to Meta uPick. Feel free to join that; someone's gonna need to send a guideline that keeps lurkers like Flameaxe and SSK in line.

pre-/in?