Mini 610: Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over!!
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Battle Mage Jester
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Ooh, so im a juror?
excellent. I'll be reading in a bit.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Hey man. Sure has! Good to see you again though.Gorrad wrote:BM! Been a while. Welcome to the game, please vote SlySly or Mirth.
Sorry to say it, but i've read the game, and i'm not inclined to lynch someone solely for being an idiot. Who knows- maybe we have a Vig or something? I'm not saying Mirth and Sly havent been scummy, but i'd like to see more from the latter before we do anything with him. Mirth...well, i'm pretty torn. I'd really like to kill her, but im not sure i can do so on good reasoning. I'm far from convinced that she is scum. If it comes to a choice between her and BG, i'll gladly join the Unanimous Vote. In the meantime, i think we have better options to pursue.
My game analysis is here btw:
Natirasha is right about an early defendant claim being a good idea. I REALLY don’t like the way Mirth is jumping at shadows, and I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that. But then, this is Mirth we’re talking about here. It’s probably unrealistic to expect the same level of ability as you might from other players.
Chiefskye is giving me scummy vibes. Gorrad’s post on the setup confuses me a little. Tajo looks even scummier. Rofl at Post 67. It’s great to be in a game with Gorrad again
Post 76 by Cream could well be a massive slip if Babygirl is town.
Rich’s first post is pretty scummy and probably warrants suspicion. But, it’s a bit surprising to see Mirth so eager with the ‘confirm vote’.
Post 78 is equally inconsistent, as Mirth encourages Natirasha to claim for no reason, DESPITE opposing a claim from BG earlier. Why?
CS supports a claim too, and is reluctant to vote Theo. Again, feels scummy. Tajo votes for Cream. No reason given. Potential distancing? Natirasha’s claim seems genuine. One scenario I could POTENTIALLY see as being a very good play, is Mirth and Natirasha as a scumpair, setting up the whole claim thing, in an attempt to get a safeclaim of that nature into the mix. Just an idea.
Post 84 by Cream is mucho interessant. Same with Post 85, but again, I’m not exactly optimistic about getting anything useful or relevant out of Mirth this game…
Talk about TS 2.0!
CS joins the Cream-Mirth group. Humorous indeed.
He also claims to be able to back up Nat’s claim flavour wise. Would be interesting to wait for flavour counter-claims.
Matt feels town. It is a healthy mix of scummy and just plain irritating that Mirth insists on distorting the facts surrounding the Nat-claim. Jesus christ, did nobody ever teach you to take responsibility for your actions? Whether you meant it or not, you cant deny the facts. Post 99 by CS doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If Nat had softclaimed power, and was actually relatively weak, wouldn’t it be beneficial for her to take the bullet, rather than save her own ass? That is, if you think she claimed genuinely.
Tajo tunnel-visions Cream.
Post 103 by CS is very scummy. Gorrad feels town. I’m hanging off his every word.
Malthusis suggests scum might not have NKs. Don’t understand Gorrad’s post 125 vote for Mirth. Mirth does seem to be jumping at shadows though. And I don’t think she is exactly playing to her town META.
I’m not entirely convinced by Gorrad’s case on Mirth. I mean, scum can slip inside info because they think the town might know already, or shortly know it. On the flipside, I really don’t like the way Mirth attempts to exaggerate the situation the town is in- it strikes me as if she doesn’t really have a grasp on what state the town is in. Malthusis tries to reassure Mirth. Tajo claims CS is town, for no apparent reason. Tajo is still tunnel-visioning Cream. I think a Tajo-lynch could be VERY informative at this point. Tajo also claims to be almost sure that BG is town. Not greatly impressed with Sly’s first bit of content. Nor his buddying with Mirth. Sly’s blatant fishing seems off. But I think he can wait for a bit.
Oh and for my own sake, a random checklist:
Populartajo x 3
Gorrad ??
Matt S
Cream
Mirth
CS
Go figure. Rofl
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Battle Mage Jester
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I guess YOU havent been reading the game as well as you thought.SlySly wrote:
Currently she is saying nothing and that sure isn't helping her defense.Joubert wrote:there's little she can say to defend herself...
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From my experience playing mafia with her, I have seen that Mirth has greater skill at this game than most.Battle Mage wrote: this is Mirth we’re talking about here. It’s probably unrealistic to expect the same level of ability as you might from other players.
Don't let the IC status fool you. And definitely don't let the prolific playstyle sway you. As far as chasing shadows and spouting arrogant BS goes, Mirth is like CKD 2.0.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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509? since when did my comments have any real link to the only game we have shared recently? Granted, my experience of playing with you doesn't give me the greatest optimism about us faring much better this game. In fairness, i expect you share the same opinion of me. But, facts are facts, and you are playing differently here to how i have seen you play before. And don't disregard my comments simply because i don't respect you quite as much as Sly over here seems to. They are perfectly valid and game-related.Mirth wrote:
And you can't prove something that is when there is nothing to either support or deny it with.Joubert wrote:
Because you can't possibly prove something that is NOT. That's all...Mirth wrote:Why are you so ready to declare her innocent? She's not even participating at this point, so she's pretty much a null read.
Ah...BM...I see you're going to take 509 out on me. Whatever. I don't particularly care, but if you feel like going to personal insults, wait until 509 finishes and have it out with me in that thread please.
Oh and btw, i try not to argue about games once they are over. It's a bit pathetic... 0.o
You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!Mirth wrote:
I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?Battle Mage wrote:I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:
Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed".protown
ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??
Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it wasyouwho forced him to claim.
Yep. I can dig out the post if you want. You said, despite your anti-claim stance before and after that point, 'I don't mind...you might aswell now'.Mirth wrote: Later on you say I support a claim from him? Yay for misrepresentation.
Erm, i dont see how this is really relevant, but lets have a gameplay discussion!Mirth wrote: Soft-claiming is worse than full claiming.
why do you think this?
Sorry i just dont like youMirth wrote:Keep it in your pants please.in that way.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Have i voted for Mirth yet? I think you can rest easy. Equally, if i do decide to vote for Mirth, it will not be disregarded due to our history i hope? I'd like any prejudices to be ironed out before we go anywhere.SlySly wrote:
I hope your dislike of Mirth does not affect your objectivity.Battle Mage wrote:
Sorry i just dont like youMirth wrote:Keep it in your pants please.in that way.
BM
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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You've read my analysis of the game? no? well, try that first, and if u have any concerns, let me know.Mirth wrote:
Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?
Kudos for humility. And i agree that Sly buddying up to you isn't doing either of you any favours.Mirth wrote:
No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.SlySly wrote:
From my experience playing mafia with her, I have seen that Mirth has greater skill at this game than most.
I am sad Theo is no longer in this game. Well, alas.
Yeah, it always sucks to lose a lurker.... roflmao
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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technically, misinformation is a scumtell. Face the facts- Mirth hasnt exactly been a shining example of towniness in this game. lolSlySly wrote:
I was alerting the rest of the town that you are no idiot. Your defense was not my M.O..Mirth wrote: No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.
You havent questionned any of my points exhibiting this, and yet you continue to claim a different view. why is that?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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....ChiefSkye4 wrote:Mirth wrote:
(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?
285.
Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Experience does not equal Ability. Take me as a classic example. I've played more games than the vast majority of people on this site, but i'm very far from being than all of those people. Just because Mirth is an IC who joined the site a while back, and has a few games under her belt, does not mean that she is a good player, and certainly does not mean that she is beyond reproach.SlySly wrote:
Mirth is not a novice and has some skills at this game. This is not a defense of Mirth, it is a fact, whether you want to face it or not.Battle Mage wrote:
technically, misinformation is a scumtell.SlySly wrote:
I was alerting the rest of the town that you are no idiot. Your defense was not my M.O..Mirth wrote: No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.
Therefore, you are the one spreading misinformation.
Should we all vote you since you say it is a scumtell?
If somebody cocks up, its our job to point it out and make them feel really bad about it.
Now, im not really interested in a meta analysis of Mirth from you atm. But, what i would like, is for you to put your money where your mouth is, and answer for her play in THIS game, seeing as you seem to think she is gods gift to MS.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...Mirth wrote:
Actually, I have no opinion of you. You also have a pretty poor meta on me if you feel like going off meta.Battle Mage wrote: 509? since when did my comments have any real link to the only game we have shared recently? Granted, my experience of playing with you doesn't give me the greatest optimism about us faring much better this game. In fairness, i expect you share the same opinion of me. But, facts are facts, and you are playing differently here to how i have seen you play before.
Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.Mirth wrote:
I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.BM wrote:
You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!Mirth wrote:
I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?Battle Mage wrote:I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:
Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed".protown
ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??
Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it wasyouwho forced him to claim.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?
Equally they can have positive impacts. A townie can absorb a kill by softclaiming a power role. If someone softclaims a power role, the Doc has a good idea of who to protect, and hence we can prevent an NK that way. But, mainly, a softclaim tells us we have a power role claimant, WITHOUT TELLING THE SCUM WHAT POWER ROLE THAT IS.Mirth wrote: Soft claims are worse than full claims as far as I'm concerned in that they lead to endless WIFOM if the soft claimer should live. They are also a way for scum to possibly claim a powerrole and decide later on which role they want to pretend to be.
Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??Mirth wrote:If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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ok lets see. First off, CS's early posts give me very scummy vibes, as i have already said. Post 79 is a killer for 2 reasons. Firstly supporting a claim for no real reason, except to follow the crowd. Secondly, reluctance to vote for Theo, on really dodgy grounds, that seem rather non-commital and forced. Post 99 doesnt make any sense. Post 103 is ridiculously paranoid and anxious to be non-commital.
I believe there may have been more than that. But it's enough to warrant a wagon at this stage.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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thats nice for you. Personally, i call it as i see it. I'll base my view of Mirth on how she plays HERE.SlySly wrote:
I didn't know Mirth was IC. Also, IC don't mean shit to me.Battle Mage wrote: Just because Mirth is an IC who joined the site a while back, and has a few games under her belt, does not mean that she is a good player, and certainly does not mean that she is beyond reproach.
You can think Mirth has the ability of a first game newbie if you want, but I know better.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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and yet, you said that you were pretty sure your vote was going there anyway.ChiefSkye4 wrote:
Post 79- I didn't jump to voting Theo because I wanted to give him a chance to defend himself.Battle Mage wrote:ok lets see. First off, CS's early posts give me very scummy vibes, as i have already said. Post 79 is a killer for 2 reasons. Firstly supporting a claim for no real reason, except to follow the crowd. Secondly, reluctance to vote for Theo, on really dodgy grounds, that seem rather non-commital and forced. Post 99 doesnt make any sense. Post 103 is ridiculously paranoid and anxious to be non-commital.
I believe there may have been more than that. But it's enough to warrant a wagon at this stage.
BM
erm yes, but why would that make his full claim good?CS wrote: Post 99- It meant that since Nat's not a really valuable role to Town (if he's telling the truth), then the Mafia killing him might not be a big threat.
why would that concern you? Talk about over-defensive.CS wrote: Post 103- I added the 'I'm not for or against' because I don't want her to perceive it as hostile.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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eh? care to elaborate?Matt_S wrote:
Everything else anyone's said is pretty much noise.
BM
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Page 13 Votecount
Non-Jurors:
**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)
Jurors
ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 2/1) {malthusis}, Joubert, Rishi
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 1/1) populartajo
Not Voting: (6/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Battle Mage, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth
Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
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Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Wrong. Wrong. And Wrong.Matt_S wrote:
The argument between you and Mirth isn't getting anywhere. Natirasha's claim was nobody's fault except Natirasha's. Parts of the argument aren't even relevant to this game.Battle Mage wrote:
eh? care to elaborate?Matt_S wrote:
Everything else anyone's said is pretty much noise.
BM
The discussion between Mirth and myself is going somewhere. I'm trying to establish a well reasoned view of her, and whether you believe it or not, talking does help! Natirasha's claim was most certainly NOT solely Natirasha's fault. I get bollocked for my shite play all the time. It's about time somebody else gets the same flak when they mess up. Even if it is Mirth.
And all parts of the argument are relevant to the game, even the meta ones.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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So you are playing how you do as scum?Mirth wrote:
I'm not going to rely on meta of you, and I really do ask that you and Sly both pay attention to my play in this game and not metas. (BTW, Sly has a scum meta on me, so I'm a tad worried about him defending me in this game, because he should know better.)Battle Mage wrote: Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...
You said he claimed 'townie'. Townie is most certainly not just 'town'. Seriously if you were really going on about him simply stating the obvious, thats even MORE suspicious. Clutch at straws much? And as for his reaction, you cant seriously claim it was surprising. ANYONE would have responded the same. 99% of newbies would have. I probably would have. I expect most people here would have.Mirth wrote:
Way to read, BM. Since when is riding anyone for claiming town USELESSLY asking them for a claim? No, seriously? I call him out on some this is useless, you take that as me trying to get him to claim. No contridiction here, just you not reading. Yes, it's a null tell. A null tell that he should not have reacted to being probed about.BM wrote:
Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.Mirth wrote:
I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.BM wrote:
You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!Mirth wrote:
I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?Battle Mage wrote:I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:
Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed".protown
ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??
Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it wasyouwho forced him to claim.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?
Maybe so. But the question you asked was one that anyone else would have considered outright blatant rolefishing.Mirth wrote:
I asked him because I was trying to get a read on him. Was more interested in his reaction than anything else. You should know this considering how experienced you are. As it's why anybody asks any type of question in this game.BM wrote:
Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??Mirth wrote:If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Woah woah woah. Hold your horses sonny. You claim that your meta should reveal consistency throughout your play as both town and scum during the early stages of the game. If that is the case, why would you NOT want this information to be verified.Mirth wrote:
I try my hardest to play the same way regardless of my role, but I do happen to jump on everything in the first few pages as either town or scum. Quit looking for meta and pay attention to this game.Battle Mage wrote:
So you are playing how you do as scum?Mirth wrote:
I'm not going to rely on meta of you, and I really do ask that you and Sly both pay attention to my play in this game and not metas. (BTW, Sly has a scum meta on me, so I'm a tad worried about him defending me in this game, because he should know better.)Battle Mage wrote: Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...
Sidenote: I hardly think you have the right to talk to me about paying attention to the game. No offense! lol
How long have you played on MS again? Jesus christ...Mirth wrote:
As far as I'm concerned townie = protown regardless of actual role. If you haven't noticed, I attacked everyone for everything at the start of this game, so yes, totally grasping at straws to try and get some sort of reaction beynd "oh this game dynamic sucks for town." And no, not everybody would have responded with "no, I'm not vanilla." He is also not a complete newbie, if you've noticed, so don't try to make excuses for him. Bothers me that you are.BM wrote:
You said he claimed 'townie'. Townie is most certainly not just 'town'. Seriously if you were really going on about him simply stating the obvious, thats even MORE suspicious. Clutch at straws much? And as for his reaction, you cant seriously claim it was surprising. ANYONE would have responded the same. 99% of newbies would have. I probably would have. I expect most people here would have.Mirth wrote:
Way to read, BM. Since when is riding anyone for claiming town USELESSLY asking them for a claim? No, seriously? I call him out on some this is useless, you take that as me trying to get him to claim. No contridiction here, just you not reading. Yes, it's a null tell. A null tell that he should not have reacted to being probed about.BM wrote:
Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.Mirth wrote:
I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.BM wrote:
You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!Mirth wrote:
I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?Battle Mage wrote:I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:
Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed".protown
ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??
Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it wasyouwho forced him to claim.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?
I can just about understand you trying to be different and using 'townie' to mean protown in your own mind. But did you really not give any consideration to the fact that you are in a ridiculously small minority?
In a large number of games on site, Moderators even list vanilla players as 'townies'. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to realise this. I didnt even say that you would just trick complete newbies. I thought you meant 'vanilla' too. If you like, we can ask everyone else here what they would have interpreted it as. And of course, responding to a direct role accusation which you made, is never easy. I'm not making excuses for him. I cant see a great deal of alternative responses, that dont consist of us quicklynching YOU.
The reason 'this is so' is that in numerous subsequent posts after the incident, even up until very recently, you have been consistently stating that it was Natirashas fault for not understanding something which you made deliberately misleading. If it makes you feel better, we can ask people now.Mirth wrote:
Yet they didn't. In fact, I got jumped on for my exchange with Malth and not this. Explain why you think this is so please?BM wrote:
Maybe so. But the question you asked was one that anyone else would have considered outright blatant rolefishing.Mirth wrote:
I asked him because I was trying to get a read on him. Was more interested in his reaction than anything else. You should know this considering how experienced you are. As it's why anybody asks any type of question in this game.BM wrote:
Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??Mirth wrote:If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.
Guys- What do you take to mean by the word 'townie'? What would you respond if i asked you whether you were a 'townie' or not?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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omfg. grow up, and stop playing the martyr. Am i voting for Babygirl? Is babygirl listed as one of my suspects? Is there even a majority voting for Babygirl? Get a grip and do something useful. We arent killing babygirl today, but unless you can give us a better offer, you might be the alternative.populartajo wrote:
Im not 100% defending her/him.Mirth wrote:Why are you still defending BG/Rishi?
1. I think that babygirl sounds more like a frustrated townie that like a frustrated scum. DOES ANYBODY ELSE THINK LIKE ME?
2. Im not outguessing the mod but I strongly suspect that the list of jurors, non-jurors and a defendant is not random. It could be, but this game would be a little unfair for scum if we have a scumdefendant in the first day. This is just my opinion.
3. I still think that there are people far more suspect than babygirl. Read my posts for details.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Hating long games is a scumtell.populartajo wrote:I hate when threads get long like this.
Thx BM.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Thats a valid point, but actually, not what Tajo was getting at. He was clearly arguing for you being town, as opposed to arguing for someone else being scum, or everyone co-ordinating better.Rishi wrote:
Okay, I'm caught up.Battle Mage wrote: omfg. grow up, and stop playing the martyr. Am i voting for Babygirl? Is babygirl listed as one of my suspects? Is there even a majority voting for Babygirl? Get a grip and do something useful. We arent killing babygirl today, but unless you can give us a better offer, you might be the alternative.
The funny thing is one of the things that really caught my eye was this recent post by Battle Mage. It doesn't matter if people are voting for me or not, as I'm the default lynch if people can't agree. There is absolutely no need for any of you to vote for me, especially those on the jury. All you have to do is withhold your vote to keep a lynch from being unanimous to get me lynched. In fact, if I was a scum on the jury, I would probably do one of two things:
1. Try to distract people from the issues so that a lynch doesn't occur.
2. Lurk.
I haven't noticed anyone on the jury being much of a lurker, but with about eight days to deadline, I think we need to determine if there is a player who is a better lynch than I am. Of course, I'm biased being the defendant.
Ooi, what is your view on Mirth's behaviour during the Natirasha role claim incident?Rishi wrote: A lot of attention has been centered around Mirth. I don't know why, but I am getting a protown vibe from Mirth. Mirth has gotten into arguments with Malthus and now Battle Mage and I think Mirth has made more sense in those arguments.
I think if you were going to claim, it would have been at the very start of the day. Now i think we are pretty much decided that you arent the play, and there doesnt seem to be alot of point you claiming now.Rishi wrote: So,Unvote
A couple other small points.
I do believe Narirasha's claim, but I will point out that the role is not necessarily a pro-town role.
I don't like SlySly's PBPA of babygirl. I think it was obvious that she disappeared at that point, meaning she wouldn't ever get a chance to defend herself. Also, I think it's fairly obvious that her play was bad newbie play, and so his arguments seem a little ridiculous.
Anyway, my three top suspects are Sly, malth and BM, and it's not heartening for me to see that they are all on the jury. I'd prefer not to claim at this point, but I will if people think it's best.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Yeh, people without avatars suck!!!Mirth wrote:
No But if you want, I'm sure you can form a club with all the other people who want me to get an avatar and try to convince meRishi wrote:
And you, who have been on the site for over a year, should know about a little thing called an avatar. Geez.Mirth wrote: And you, who have also been on the site for over a year, should also know about a little thing called reaction testing.
Sorry.. in the middle of my read, but couldn't go on without inserting a sarcastic comment. Will have a post up soon.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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You obviously aren't understanding me. Whether or not you get lynched is up to the jury. Now, i think all of us have decided that we don't want you dead. So, how do u suppose a claim is going to help? Its not like you can claim to get yourself out of the firing line. You'd only be wasting our time discussing that when we should be thinking about alternatives. I would suggest 1 of those funky lists Mith uses in some of his games might help with that.Rishi wrote:
I'll need to look at this again, and will respond to this, but I wanted to respond to another point first.Battle Mage wrote: Ooi, what is your view on Mirth's behaviour during the Natirasha role claim incident?
Here's the point, though. I am babygirl now. (Man, I never thought I would type that sentence within my lifetime.) Without a unanimous decision, I AM the play. So, I don't think my claim is completely useless. People who aren't pushing for a lynch are pushing for my lynch without having to do anything. It's the perfect weapon for scum. All they have to do is say, "No one seems scummy to me" and sit back and watch as I get lynched by default. They aren't even going to draw any suspicion doing it.Battle Mage wrote: I think if you were going to claim, it would have been at the very start of the day. Now i think we are pretty much decided that you arent the play, and there doesnt seem to be alot of point you claiming now.
So, right now, in my eyes, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Whilst i appreciate your predicament, its not like you've been of any greater contribution to saving your life than we have. So rather than having a go, how about helping yourself?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Of course i'm paying attention. But you can hardly come in here, having posted a few times, and i should note, none of those posts actually being constructive towards saving you, and criticise everybody else for doing nothing. I dont like criticism at the best of times, but when i'm being criticised by somebody who has done no better than i have, then i get a tad irate.Rishi wrote:
Okay, in that case, I did misunderstand what you were saying. Or perhaps you weren't making it clear.Battle Mage wrote: You obviously aren't understanding me. Whether or not you get lynched is up to the jury. Now, i think all of us have decided that we don't want you dead. So, how do u suppose a claim is going to help? Its not like you can claim to get yourself out of the firing line. You'd only be wasting our time discussing that when we should be thinking about alternatives. I would suggest 1 of those funky lists Mith uses in some of his games might help with that.
Whilst i appreciate your predicament, its not like you've been of any greater contribution to saving your life than we have. So rather than having a go, how about helping yourself?
As for my lack of contribution, that's kind of a ridiculous argument. I replaced into the game two days ago and just finished my read this morning and have already posted a couple times. Are you just not paying attention?
Oh, and dont ask stupid, patronising questions. It's unbecoming, and looks pretty scummy.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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emotional? Who wouldnt be emotional when they are being goaded? You obviously haven't played a game with me before, but feel free to compare my behaviour here with any other game of mine that i have actively participated in.Rishi wrote:Emotional play = scummy play.
Add that on top of the suspicions I had before.
Vote: Battle Mage
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Page 14 Votecount
Non-Jurors:
**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)
Jurors
ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 1/1) {malthusis}, Joubert
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 2/1) populartajo, Rishi
Not Voting: (6/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Battle Mage, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth
Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================
Malthusis and Natirasha are being prodded.
I've gotta call OMGUS here.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Ok, i concede. Maybe i didnt word that very well. But, i still think, in practice, if someone thinks that townie=protown, and then proceeds to say someone who hints at being townie is letting their ROLE slip, they are quite clearly being majorly inconsistent. Regardless, i guess its time we started discussing who to lynch, rather than whether Mirth is an idiot, or a genius.Gorrad wrote:Rishi, I think the consensus is that you aren't the play. That means that the only way you'd be lynched is by default. A claim isn't going to change that unless it's some kind of investigative role or provides other information that can help us later on in the game, in which case you should claim at the last possible opportunity.
BM, when I hear Townie, I think pro-town, not vanilla.
Now, I've heard others go up against SlySly besides myself, how about some more votes there, eh Jurors?
By 'go up against' Sly do you mean argue with, or suspect? Because whilst i have disagreed with him, i dont think he is worth a vote.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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You think it's wise to let Rishi off that easy?Mirth wrote:So leave the dead horse alone.
I can go for Tajo as an opening vote.Mirth wrote:
Gave up on getting me lynched already? Why?Gorrad wrote: Now, I've heard others go up against SlySly besides myself, how about some more votes there, eh Jurors?
I personally don't find Sly suspicious enough to vote. I am trying to decide between you, BM, and Nat. I don't believe Nat's claim, but lynching someone who claimed a powerrole day 1 would be incredably stupid. You, well, your play has been rather tunnelvisioned and less than satisfactory, but I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching you either, won't go into why. And BM, well, BM really just bothers me with what exactly he's taking issue with, but that could just be BM being himself...
I'm also really not liking the "BG/Rishi" is town thing coming from Tajo...
Vote: Populartajo
Did anyone else look into the concordet voting system i suggested we use? Ive also just noticed that its in fact easier to lynch a juror than a non-juror.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Are you saying that i should have a scum meta of you? :SNatirasha wrote:The last few pages have been very tl;dr for me, and I only skimmed, sorry.
I am surprised BM is defending me--he has been in games with me before and should know how I act.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
Ironically, Mirth feels it appropriate to criticise Nat for not reading the game, when it seems quite apparent thatshe is not reading the game either. I've still yet to see any comments on my suggestion of using the Concordet system, used in Mith's series of large themes. Was nobody reading either of the two posts i've already mentioned it in? Or is there a reason you haven't deigned to comment on it?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
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They arent solely used in Mith-games, thats just where i encountered them. I think they were used at Thespival as well, and events like that. Try reading one of Mith's old games. Just the first few posts. It'll explain what i mean far better than i can.Mirth wrote:Did not comment because there was nothing to comment on. What exactly did you suggest? Before you tell me to go back and reread your posts, you said that maybe we should consider a list like Mith uses, and then you asked if anyone had any thoughts about a concordet voting system a couple pages later. This all means nothing to me as I do not understand the reference of either post, never having been in any of Mith's large games. Perhaps you should actually explain what it is you're driving at?
BM
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Page 15 Votecount
Non-Jurors:
**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (1/7) {Battle Mage}
Jurors
ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 1/1) {malthusis}, Joubert
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 2/1) populartajo, Rishi
Not Voting: (5/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth
Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================
Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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thats really quite weak...populartajo wrote:
Explain why this post is scummy and why it doesnt seem to you like an attempt to stop possible scum in the jurors lurking. Now.Gorrad wrote:
One of the most scummy things I've seen posted in a long while.populartajo wrote:Ok we know lurking isnt going to help town specially in this game.
We have to do something.
Although my vote doesnt mean anything, Id suggest the jury to vote for Cream that he's far suspicious than babygirl.
Reason : he unvotes Theo with no apparent reason.
Do all the members of the jury here think that Cream is less suspicious than babygirl?ChiefSkye4
Cream147
Gorrad
malthusis
Mirth
SlySly
theopor_COD
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Because as jurors, we need to come up with a lynch we can all agree on. As such, the condorcet method of ordering players in order of suspicion, can be a good way of ensuring that we definitely reach an a satisfactory alternative lynch in time.Matt_S wrote:
Funny, I don't remember you ever using that reasoning in the past.populartajo wrote:
Explain why this post is scummy and why it doesnt seem to you like an attempt to stop possible scum in the jurors lurking. Now.Gorrad wrote:
One of the most scummy things I've seen posted in a long while.populartajo wrote:Ok we know lurking isnt going to help town specially in this game.
We have to do something.
Although my vote doesnt mean anything, Id suggest the jury to vote for Cream that he's far suspicious than babygirl.
Reason : he unvotes Theo with no apparent reason.
Do all the members of the jury here think that Cream is less suspicious than babygirl?ChiefSkye4
Cream147
Gorrad
malthusis
Mirth
SlySly
theopor_COD
And I have no idea how a Condorcet system will help us out.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
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right, jurors, please post your lists of favourite lynches. NOW.
BM
*regarding emotional play, seriously, just meta me. I'm always emotional about Mafia games. Even those i dont really care about.
Rishi, please explain how you think Nat's role could be anti-town?Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
Right so, with only 2 people weighing in, due to the fact both of you have only deigned to name 3 suspects, we are already in a position where the only lynch we can agree on is Populartajo. Not that i have any real issue with that, but i do worry that it gives us little scope for manoevre.
Anyway, i think it's time to start piling our votes on.
BM
*also, Mirth, just get an avatar. I can understand you want to be like me in every way, but such idol-worship can be confusing for some of the newer players.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
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lol you seem to be under the false impression that i CARE.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
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they do that already!
you gonna vote for Tajo or what?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
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We only have a few days. We need a unanimous vote. You are one of the more active people here, and its not like we're gonna get a premature lynch by any means. But, by not voting you are not setting a good example to the less active people.
FoS: Mirth< and that is how you do bold tags
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Joined: January 10, 2007
Look at the overall activity of this game. Not everyone is checking in daily. Its your job to set a good example for people if you are town, because A: you want to give townies every opportunity to contribute and B: you dont want to give scum an excuse to NOT contribute.Mirth wrote:I know we're not going to get a premature lynch. I'm holding off because I'm not entirely happy with it and I would like more conversation first. Since when is it my job to set a good example for people? This is not a newbie game. It's also not like deadline is tomorrow. We till have a couple of days and I want to use them.
We need a unanimous verdict to even save Rishi here, so the only way you are going to get an alternative lynch is by convincing Gorrad. at the very LEAST. You have not attempted to do this, and you can probably see why i'm not buying the whole 'i'd like more conversation' bs. It's very easy to paddle that, but if you arent giving anything to the game yourself, how can you realistically ask others to do so?
Offer an alternative. Offer something to discuss. Offer SOMETHING. Don't say nothing, and then claim you are waiting for conversation, in order to perhaps recommence your shadow baiting earlier on in the game. It's very far from helpful, and doesnt show you in a protown light.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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matt....please cast a vote already. thanksMatt_S wrote:
Oh I WISH things were that simple. Not only does that open you up for a ton of WIFOM, but it also assumes that the lurking scum juror won't be lynched by his peers for lurking. From the beginning, that whole incident was about keeping babygirl from being lynched.populartajo wrote:The logical play for them would be to lurk and comment the less possible.
If I'm worried about lurking, I generally use prods. Then they have to lurk in front of everyone.populartajo wrote:Find another way.
Are you trying to say that it's excusable for the defendant to lurk?populartajo wrote:I didnt ignore it. She is the defendant, duh.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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First off, i have the right to do whatever the hell i like. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll come to know and respect the way i play. I don't cower from a fight.Mirth wrote:
I don't think you have the right to levy this criticism at me considering I've spent the first few weeks that this game was going on questioning everybody for everything. Frankly, I'm getting just a tiny bit fed up with the fact that people like Joubert keep popping in, making contentless posts, and ignoring my questions. I also don't like the whole "Rishi is town" assumption that is going on here. None of us (except scum and/or Rishi can know this for sure) so I'm a little suspicious of the whole "save Rishi" campaign that started back when Tajo and a couple of other people somehow magically deduced BG was innocent. So while I don't think Rishi is the best lynch, I don't like the assumption that he's not scum that's going around. I don't like my own personal list of suspects because it's mainly based on the inactivity of half the town. I know that not everyone can check the game every day, but it is not my responsibility to hold their hands and offer them a ready made lynch target because they don't feel like drawing up their own lists of suspects.Battle Mage wrote:
Look at the overall activity of this game. Not everyone is checking in daily. Its your job to set a good example for people if you are town, because A: you want to give townies every opportunity to contribute and B: you dont want to give scum an excuse to NOT contribute.Mirth wrote:I know we're not going to get a premature lynch. I'm holding off because I'm not entirely happy with it and I would like more conversation first. Since when is it my job to set a good example for people? This is not a newbie game. It's also not like deadline is tomorrow. We till have a couple of days and I want to use them.
We need a unanimous verdict to even save Rishi here, so the only way you are going to get an alternative lynch is by convincing Gorrad. at the very LEAST. You have not attempted to do this, and you can probably see why i'm not buying the whole 'i'd like more conversation' bs. It's very easy to paddle that, but if you arent giving anything to the game yourself, how can you realistically ask others to do so?
Offer an alternative. Offer something to discuss. Offer SOMETHING. Don't say nothing, and then claim you are waiting for conversation, in order to perhaps recommence your shadow baiting earlier on in the game. It's very far from helpful, and doesnt show you in a protown light.
BM
And I've decided that I'd much prefer a Joubert lynch to a Tajo lynch, because at least Tajo is trying to participate.
Secondly, it is the fact that you spent the most part of the early stages of the game chasing absolutely f*all that makes me concerned that you arent interested in actually committing to a lynch on good grounds- rather you want to continue to hunt for nonentities in order to fill up the thread and waste the day.
I'll read Joubert's play soon. You'll need Gorrad's thoughts too.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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I dont suppose this is anything to do with the fact i have attacked and criticised your play? :Roll:ChiefSkye4 wrote:
If I had to vote, only one person even stands out mildly to me, and that would be BM, and maybe, maybe, maybe Joubert. And not even that much. Now, BG stuck out to me as scummy, but Rishi is picking up the slack, and I'm not sure what to think about that whole ship now, so I can't wager there.Battle Mage wrote:right, jurors, please post your lists of favourite lynches. NOW.
Quite honestly, I'd be willing to thow my vote to wherever it is needed to be unanimous, but I'd prefer it be BM or Joubert.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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right, so because of CS, we are now forced to choose between 2 sub-optimal candidates. Wonderful. I'll read through Joubert and see whether we convict him or Rishi.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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sub-optimal = not one of my ideal targets by a long shot.Rishi wrote:Sub-optimal? I didn't plug people's lists into the condorcet generator, but I think Joubert would've won that vote.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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malthusis wrote:
Acting quickly is definitly not acting irrationally JoubertChiefSkye4 wrote:
*blinkblink* It could possibly be the ever looming deadline of, like, 48 hours.
Hmmm, yeah, the deadline is near, that doesn't mean we should act irrational...
I have to agree with Mirth on this that you should have mentioned this if that was indeed the cause.So about participation, for the main part of the beginning of the game, RL was the cause.
And so we have, the case on Joubert. For crying out loud. You want him lynched based on this!?!?
If Joubert isn't your #1 candidate, who is? Rishi?[/quote]Malthusis wrote: right, so because of CS, we are now forced to choose between 2 sub-optimal candidates.
No. Tajo, or CS would be my top choices from what i recall of my read. There isnt a case on Joubert. Nor is there a case on Rishi (except that he can be annoying).
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Damnit i really wanna see Tajo hang. I think we'll learn so much from it.
I'm still not feeling the Joubert-wagon ATALL. Firstly, it's pretty much entirely based on lurking, which hardly makes for an effective case. Secondly, if anything, he is giving me town vibes. Thirdly, more than half of the votes on him are of the nature 'i dont think he is that scummy, but i dont want to see Rishi die'. Now lets say he is scum. Im making the assumption that there is at LEAST 1 scumbag on the Jury atm. Most of the jurors so far, have shown attitudes that directly oppose them bussing Joubert. Nobody has defended him either (apart from me apparently). Do you really think all Joubert's scumbuddies would choose to bus him, whilst claiming 'They dont see a case on him atall'??
Rishi, i'd like you to claim please.
thanks,
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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he probably copied and pasted.
Even YOU dont seem to have the conviction of the Joubert wagon. I get the gut feeling that neither of them are scum, but we have to kill 1 of them.
I await the claim from Rishi.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Gorrad is NOT voting for Joubert. Try, ya know, reading the game.Rishi wrote:Oh, also, Gorrad is voting for Joubert.
You know... I really think that it's fishy that BM is withholding his vote and trying to extract a claim. Can someone demonstrate how it's not?
Hell, even reading the Mod's posts would have told you better.
Of course it's fishy from your perspective. Its your neck on the line. In fact, it's FISHING at its most blatant. I dont see why you want someone to argue that out. Its not like i'm contesting it.
Are you going to claim or not?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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assuming his claim doesnt clarify matters, i have an idea which might just save his arse. Of course, if he'd rather listen to you, thats his lookout.Mirth wrote:Gorrad isn't voting. He didn't unvote.
Since our deadline apparently got pushed back to Monday, I request you don't claim.
The clock is ticking, comrade.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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rofl.Mirth wrote:Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.
Or...NOT.
Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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No, i mean give me the benefit of the doubt and give him the opportunity to make the choice. And stop fishing from me, when it clearly has no protown incentive.Mirth wrote:
You mean give him a choice like you are?Battle Mage wrote:
rofl.Mirth wrote:Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.
Or...NOT.
Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.
BM
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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yes. he can claim, or he can not claim. I'm not going to outline the consequences of either action here, just because you said so. At least in a world ruled by me, we would achieve something. In a world ruled by you, the tiniest action taken by the people would be questionned by your good self, and nothing would ever get done. Being firm is sometimes necessary.Mirth wrote:
So "claim now because I said so" is a choice? I would hate to live in a world ruled by you, BM.Battle Mage wrote:
No, i mean give me the benefit of the doubt and give him the opportunity to make the choice. And stop fishing from me, when it clearly has no protown incentive.Mirth wrote:
You mean give him a choice like you are?Battle Mage wrote:
rofl.Mirth wrote:Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.
Or...NOT.
Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.
BM
BM
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Lol, you see no reason to claim now? srsly?Rishi wrote:
Go ahead and give your idea. I see no reason to claim now.Battle Mage wrote:
rofl.Mirth wrote:Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.
Or...NOT.
Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.
BM
Fair enough...
Oh and btw, if you think i'm gonna try and save your ass if you cant even be bothered to put the effort in yourself, you are VERY wrong.
I'd rather not have more claims than we need to. Hence i have asked you to claim. Do me a favour, and dont question my motives until you have given me the opportunity to reveal them. -.-Rishi wrote: Especially since you never asked Joubert to claim. It means that you're interested in hearing my role, a blatant attempt at information, but not really in evaluating who is a better lynch.
I've already made it quite clear that i dont want to see Joubert die today.
lol, i dont think you really believe that. LaL?Rishi wrote: And I'm sorry that I don't have 18 hours a day to dedicate to Mafia and that I missed the Gorrad thing. I have this thing called, you know, A LIFE.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Indeed. I felt it was the only way we would organise ourselves by deadline.Rishi wrote:
And I've already made it quite clear that the following facts exist:Battle Mage wrote:I'd rather not have more claims than we need to. Hence i have asked you to claim. Do me a favour, and dont question my motives until you have given me the opportunity to reveal them. -.-
I've already made it quite clear that i dont want to see Joubert die today.
1) You suggested condorcet voting and encouraged people to submit their lists.
I never submitted a list myself because nobody showed any intention of ACTUALLY compiling the lists. I had not stated that i would. The actual purpose of the exercise was to establish who people were willing to lynch. As most people only submitted 3 players, the exercise became farsicle and the result was that we could not reach a decision on which we were all agreed. Something to work on tomorrow i guess.Rishi wrote: 2) You did not submit a list yourself, nor did you ever compile the lists into a favored lynch, as you said that you would.
The idea of the condorcet voting system was to establish a lynch we were ALL happy with. I am not happy with a Joubert lynch by any means. I'm quite willing to compromise with a lesser target, but i'm not going to jump at the chance to kill someone who there is NO real case on, and who i feel is most likely town. Thats just how Mafia works.Rishi wrote: 3) You are not going along with the general opinion of those who have submitted lists and therefore are breaking the implied agreement made when condorcet voting was suggested.
Yup. I think i've made that abundantly clear.Rishi wrote: 4) You are now fishing for a roleclaim from me and not from Joubert.
Yep. Well, to be more specific, i have motives which cannot be revealed to YOU.Rishi wrote: 5) You claim to have "motives" that cannot be revealed.
If you have 'information' i wouldve expected you to claim by now. I've been completely open about how i feel. Why cant you respond in kind?Rishi wrote: Do you disagree with any of the facts? If not, and you let me die, then you will have to face the consequences of your actions. If at least two other players asked me to claim (besides you), then I will. But, I don't want to give up the information I have unless absolutely necessary. Right now, I don't think it is.
Time is running out.
DEAD wrong? is that a...threat? roflRishi wrote:And if you think I have no interest in saving myself, then you're just dead wrong.
Do what you will. I don't submit to bullies.
(Yes, the "18 hours a day on Mafia" thing was a joke.)
Do what you will. I don't submit to idiots.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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can you please post the list that Babygirl submitted?Rishi wrote:All right. That's three. I'm not sure why you all want this claim, since I hinted that my claim will be harmful for the town, but here we go:
I'm the judge. I set the jury for the next day by ranking all the people in the game from top to bottom.
It doesn't seem to be an exact science, but there's definitely some influence. The top four people on babygirl's list made the jury, numbers five and six were skipped and then seven through nine made the jury.
Babygirl put herself as Number 5, for the record. I'm not allowed to put myself at the top of the list, for the record.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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thats the problem. Whilst some of you have reached a consensus that Joubert is a good lynch, im just not feeling it. A compromise is one thing. Convicting someone i feel is highly likely to be town, on poor reasoning, is quite another. That said, Rishi has claimed a confirmable power-role.Cream147 wrote:Rishi, there is one concern I have. If BM doesn't shift soon, you may have to claim, especially if you are a power role. However, this isn't in my opinion, the optimal situation. Condorcet voting has told us that Joubert is the preferred conviction. Therefore, from my eyes, we should be convicting Joubert. Joubert should be claiming. Rishi should be staying alive (and therefore not claiming).
I need to reread, and i want to see Babygirl's alleged rankings from the previous night, but in the meantime, it's probably advisable that we wait for anycounter-claimsas 'The Judge' seems to be a pretty integral part of the flavour.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Sensfan,SensFan wrote:
BM,Battle Mage wrote:
thats the problem. Whilst some of you have reached a consensus that Joubert is a good lynch, im just not feeling it. A compromise is one thing. Convicting someone i feel is highly likely to be town, on poor reasoning, is quite another. That said, Rishi has claimed a confirmable power-role.Cream147 wrote:Rishi, there is one concern I have. If BM doesn't shift soon, you may have to claim, especially if you are a power role. However, this isn't in my opinion, the optimal situation. Condorcet voting has told us that Joubert is the preferred conviction. Therefore, from my eyes, we should be convicting Joubert. Joubert should be claiming. Rishi should be staying alive (and therefore not claiming).
I need to reread, and i want to see Babygirl's alleged rankings from the previous night, but in the meantime, it's probably advisable that we wait for anycounter-claimsas 'The Judge' seems to be a pretty integral part of the flavour.
BM
I do not feel that a single Jury member should have the right to stop a lynch. If we allow Jury members to stop a lynch because they are 'not feeling it', then a Jury of 2 Scum with a Town defendant will be lynching Town, something we cannot allow. As far as I am concerned, if most (read all but 1 or 2) of the Jury - as well as a good part of the Town - want someone lynched, the Jury members must fall in line and vote for that person. You are not higher than any of us, and I am not willing to give you the kind of leverage and power you seem to want. Vote for Joubert before the Day ends, or I will be gunning for your lynch tomorrow.
Thats a really poorly thought out analogy. If we force jury members to vote for somebody who the majority agrees, it will only a very small proportion of the town to be wrong for us to concede the game. Also, if people dont give their opinions, we don't learn anything. Let's say nobody supports a Joubert lynch with any real conviction (not that far from the truth, ironically enough lol) but he gets strung up because those who do oppose it, feel obliged to go along with it anyway. What the hell do we learn!?
If he comes up scum, we learn nothing from players behaviour towards him. If he comes up town, we learn nothing from players behaviour towards him. You seem to want us to take pot-shots into the town, by removing a crucial dimension of Scumhunting.
You know me, Sensfan. I'm not afraid to be controversial at the best of times. I certainly won't be told what to do by someone who is no more confirmed innocent than the next guy. Whether i am 'higher' than you or not is irrelevant. We are all equal, and have equal entitlement to an opinion. I'm not quite sure where you got the impression i was going to run the deadline out, but it was unfounded. WAS. Now, i'm not so sure. I don't respond well to being ordered around. Nobody is that edgy about saving Joubert.
You can gun for my lynch tomorrow all you want. But because you carry no more sway than anyone else here, including myself, i'm not taking your threat all that seriously. Especially coming from someone who expects us to follow a policy of minimal scumhunting. rofl
I've asked for any counter-claims. By not responding, you are wasting time. Wouldn't want Rishi's death on your head, would ya?
love,
BM
xxxxShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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No, the above statement is right, if u assume that in a normal game, scum make up approximately 1/4 of the players at the start. That means that only 1/3 of the town is required to be wrong for us to be screwed. Or more importantly, we need 2/3 of the town to be absolutely correct about who is scum, or we face mislynch after mislynch, after mislynch.SensFan wrote:
BM,Battle Mage wrote:If we force jury members to vote for somebody who the majority agrees, it will only a very small proportion of the town to be wrong for us to concede the game.
The above sentence is downright wrong, seeing as the lynch in a normal game is controlled by the majority of votes.
Lots of love,
SensFan
xoxoxo
P.S. We may or may not be as 'equal' as you may think, in terms of opinion .
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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It would help to validate your claim. I'm frankly not bothered if you die or not at this point, if you are determined to slow us down, and reluctant to give the town the information it needs to confirm you.Rishi wrote:
Absolutely not. I don't even know what purpose this would serve. I told you all the relevant information from the list.Battle Mage wrote: can you please post the list that Babygirl submitted?
Plus, it would fall under the general rule of not quoting things that the mod has sent.
What possible reason would i want this information as scum?
And dont pull the 'Mod wont let me' bs. A cop can claim who he investigates, and a doc can claim who he targets. Why wouldnt you be able to claim who BG submitted in the same manner?
There is no way you could be punished for that. Enough excuses. Finish claiming.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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As much as it pains me to say it, i'll see a potential power role hang, if he is completely unwilling to claim his previous night choice. Why would he be reluctant to claim this, if he was town?Cream147 wrote:
I don't expect you to vote yet BM, if you want to wait to see if there are any counterclaims, then fine. However, assuming no counterclaims, the choice you are left to make is a simple one. It may be unfortunate, but we have known that this was the case since Chief Skye put on his vote. If the judge is convicted due to your not voting, then on your head be it.Battle Mage wrote:
thats the problem. Whilst some of you have reached a consensus that Joubert is a good lynch, im just not feeling it. A compromise is one thing. Convicting someone i feel is highly likely to be town, on poor reasoning, is quite another. That said, Rishi has claimed a confirmable power-role.Cream147 wrote:Rishi, there is one concern I have. If BM doesn't shift soon, you may have to claim, especially if you are a power role. However, this isn't in my opinion, the optimal situation. Condorcet voting has told us that Joubert is the preferred conviction. Therefore, from my eyes, we should be convicting Joubert. Joubert should be claiming. Rishi should be staying alive (and therefore not claiming).
I need to reread, and i want to see Babygirl's alleged rankings from the previous night, but in the meantime, it's probably advisable that we wait for anycounter-claimsas 'The Judge' seems to be a pretty integral part of the flavour.
BM
Joubert, a claim from you would be handy.
You're probably right about a Joubert claim at this point.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%