Mini 610: Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over!!

[Battle Mage]

Ooh, so im a juror?

excellent. I'll be reading in a bit.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM! Been a while. Welcome to the game, please vote SlySly or Mirth.

Hey man. Sure has! Good to see you again though.

Sorry to say it, but i've read the game, and i'm not inclined to lynch someone solely for being an idiot. Who knows- maybe we have a Vig or something? I'm not saying Mirth and Sly havent been scummy, but i'd like to see more from the latter before we do anything with him. Mirth...well, i'm pretty torn. I'd really like to kill her, but im not sure i can do so on good reasoning. I'm far from convinced that she is scum. If it comes to a choice between her and BG, i'll gladly join the Unanimous Vote. In the meantime, i think we have better options to pursue.

My game analysis is here btw:

Natirasha is right about an early defendant claim being a good idea. I REALLY don’t like the way Mirth is jumping at shadows, and I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that. But then, this is Mirth we’re talking about here. It’s probably unrealistic to expect the same level of ability as you might from other players.
Chiefskye is giving me scummy vibes. Gorrad’s post on the setup confuses me a little. Tajo looks even scummier. Rofl at Post 67. It’s great to be in a game with Gorrad again
Post 76 by Cream could well be a massive slip if Babygirl is town.
Rich’s first post is pretty scummy and probably warrants suspicion. But, it’s a bit surprising to see Mirth so eager with the ‘confirm vote’.
Post 78 is equally inconsistent, as Mirth encourages Natirasha to claim for no reason, DESPITE opposing a claim from BG earlier. Why?
CS supports a claim too, and is reluctant to vote Theo. Again, feels scummy. Tajo votes for Cream. No reason given. Potential distancing? Natirasha’s claim seems genuine. One scenario I could POTENTIALLY see as being a very good play, is Mirth and Natirasha as a scumpair, setting up the whole claim thing, in an attempt to get a safeclaim of that nature into the mix. Just an idea.
Post 84 by Cream is mucho interessant. Same with Post 85, but again, I’m not exactly optimistic about getting anything useful or relevant out of Mirth this game…
Talk about TS 2.0!
CS joins the Cream-Mirth group. Humorous indeed.
He also claims to be able to back up Nat’s claim flavour wise. Would be interesting to wait for flavour counter-claims.
Matt feels town. It is a healthy mix of scummy and just plain irritating that Mirth insists on distorting the facts surrounding the Nat-claim. Jesus christ, did nobody ever teach you to take responsibility for your actions? Whether you meant it or not, you cant deny the facts. Post 99 by CS doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If Nat had softclaimed power, and was actually relatively weak, wouldn’t it be beneficial for her to take the bullet, rather than save her own ass? That is, if you think she claimed genuinely.
Tajo tunnel-visions Cream.
Post 103 by CS is very scummy. Gorrad feels town. I’m hanging off his every word.
Malthusis suggests scum might not have NKs. Don’t understand Gorrad’s post 125 vote for Mirth. Mirth does seem to be jumping at shadows though. And I don’t think she is exactly playing to her town META.
I’m not entirely convinced by Gorrad’s case on Mirth. I mean, scum can slip inside info because they think the town might know already, or shortly know it. On the flipside, I really don’t like the way Mirth attempts to exaggerate the situation the town is in- it strikes me as if she doesn’t really have a grasp on what state the town is in. Malthusis tries to reassure Mirth. Tajo claims CS is town, for no apparent reason. Tajo is still tunnel-visioning Cream. I think a Tajo-lynch could be VERY informative at this point. Tajo also claims to be almost sure that BG is town. Not greatly impressed with Sly’s first bit of content. Nor his buddying with Mirth. Sly’s blatant fishing seems off. But I think he can wait for a bit.

Oh and for my own sake, a random checklist:

Populartajo x 3
Gorrad ??
Matt S
Cream
Mirth
CS

Go figure. Rofl

BM

[Battle Mage]

yup!

[Battle Mage]

there's little she can say to defend herself...

Currently she is saying nothing and that sure isn't helping her defense.

------------------------

this is Mirth we’re talking about here. It’s probably unrealistic to expect the same level of ability as you might from other players.

From my experience playing mafia with her, I have seen that Mirth has greater skill at this game than most.

I guess YOU havent been reading the game as well as you thought.

Don't let the IC status fool you. And definitely don't let the prolific playstyle sway you. As far as chasing shadows and spouting arrogant BS goes, Mirth is like CKD 2.0.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why are you so ready to declare her innocent? She's not even participating at this point, so she's pretty much a null read.

Because you can't possibly prove something that is NOT. That's all...

And you can't prove something that is when there is nothing to either support or deny it with.

Ah...BM...I see you're going to take 509 out on me. Whatever. I don't particularly care, but if you feel like going to personal insults, wait until 509 finishes and have it out with me in that thread please.

509? since when did my comments have any real link to the only game we have shared recently? Granted, my experience of playing with you doesn't give me the greatest optimism about us faring much better this game. In fairness, i expect you share the same opinion of me. But, facts are facts, and you are playing differently here to how i have seen you play before. And don't disregard my comments simply because i don't respect you quite as much as Sly over here seems to. They are perfectly valid and game-related.
Oh and btw, i try not to argue about games once they are over. It's a bit pathetic... 0.o

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

Later on you say I support a claim from him? Yay for misrepresentation.

Yep. I can dig out the post if you want. You said, despite your anti-claim stance before and after that point, 'I don't mind...you might aswell now'.

Soft-claiming is worse than full claiming.

Erm, i dont see how this is really relevant, but lets have a gameplay discussion!
why do you think this?

Keep it in your pants please.

Sorry i just dont like you

in that way

.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Keep it in your pants please.

Sorry i just dont like you

in that way

.

BM

I hope your dislike of Mirth does not affect your objectivity.

Have i voted for Mirth yet? I think you can rest easy. Equally, if i do decide to vote for Mirth, it will not be disregarded due to our history i hope? I'd like any prejudices to be ironed out before we go anywhere.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

You've read my analysis of the game? no? well, try that first, and if u have any concerns, let me know.

From my experience playing mafia with her, I have seen that Mirth has greater skill at this game than most.

No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.

I am sad Theo is no longer in this game. Well, alas.

Kudos for humility. And i agree that Sly buddying up to you isn't doing either of you any favours.

Yeah, it always sucks to lose a lurker.... roflmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.

I was alerting the rest of the town that you are no idiot. Your defense was not my M.O..

technically, misinformation is a scumtell. Face the facts- Mirth hasnt exactly been a shining example of towniness in this game. lol
You havent questionned any of my points exhibiting this, and yet you continue to claim a different view. why is that?

BM

[Battle Mage]

(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

....


285.

[Battle Mage]

No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.

I was alerting the rest of the town that you are no idiot. Your defense was not my M.O..

technically, misinformation is a scumtell.

Mirth is not a novice and has some skills at this game. This is not a defense of Mirth, it is a fact, whether you want to face it or not.

Therefore, you are the one spreading misinformation.

Should we all vote you since you say it is a scumtell?

Experience does not equal Ability. Take me as a classic example. I've played more games than the vast majority of people on this site, but i'm very far from being than all of those people. Just because Mirth is an IC who joined the site a while back, and has a few games under her belt, does not mean that she is a good player, and certainly does not mean that she is beyond reproach.
If somebody cocks up, its our job to point it out and make them feel really bad about it.
Now, im not really interested in a meta analysis of Mirth from you atm. But, what i would like, is for you to put your money where your mouth is, and answer for her play in THIS game, seeing as you seem to think she is gods gift to MS.

BM

[Battle Mage]

509? since when did my comments have any real link to the only game we have shared recently? Granted, my experience of playing with you doesn't give me the greatest optimism about us faring much better this game. In fairness, i expect you share the same opinion of me. But, facts are facts, and you are playing differently here to how i have seen you play before.

Actually, I have no opinion of you. You also have a pretty poor meta on me if you feel like going off meta.

Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.

Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?

Soft claims are worse than full claims as far as I'm concerned in that they lead to endless WIFOM if the soft claimer should live. They are also a way for scum to possibly claim a powerrole and decide later on which role they want to pretend to be.

Equally they can have positive impacts. A townie can absorb a kill by softclaiming a power role. If someone softclaims a power role, the Doc has a good idea of who to protect, and hence we can prevent an NK that way. But, mainly, a softclaim tells us we have a power role claimant, WITHOUT TELLING THE SCUM WHAT POWER ROLE THAT IS.

If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.

Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok lets see. First off, CS's early posts give me very scummy vibes, as i have already said. Post 79 is a killer for 2 reasons. Firstly supporting a claim for no real reason, except to follow the crowd. Secondly, reluctance to vote for Theo, on really dodgy grounds, that seem rather non-commital and forced. Post 99 doesnt make any sense. Post 103 is ridiculously paranoid and anxious to be non-commital.
I believe there may have been more than that. But it's enough to warrant a wagon at this stage.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Just because Mirth is an IC who joined the site a while back, and has a few games under her belt, does not mean that she is a good player, and certainly does not mean that she is beyond reproach.

I didn't know Mirth was IC. Also, IC don't mean shit to me.

You can think Mirth has the ability of a first game newbie if you want, but I know better.

thats nice for you. Personally, i call it as i see it. I'll base my view of Mirth on how she plays HERE.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok lets see. First off, CS's early posts give me very scummy vibes, as i have already said. Post 79 is a killer for 2 reasons. Firstly supporting a claim for no real reason, except to follow the crowd. Secondly, reluctance to vote for Theo, on really dodgy grounds, that seem rather non-commital and forced. Post 99 doesnt make any sense. Post 103 is ridiculously paranoid and anxious to be non-commital.
I believe there may have been more than that. But it's enough to warrant a wagon at this stage.

BM

Post 79- I didn't jump to voting Theo because I wanted to give him a chance to defend himself.

and yet, you said that you were pretty sure your vote was going there anyway.

Post 99- It meant that since Nat's not a really valuable role to Town (if he's telling the truth), then the Mafia killing him might not be a big threat.

erm yes, but why would that make his full claim good?

Post 103- I added the 'I'm not for or against' because I don't want her to perceive it as hostile.

why would that concern you? Talk about over-defensive.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Everything else anyone's said is pretty much noise.

eh? care to elaborate?

BM

=======================================

Page 13 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 2/1) {malthusis}, Joubert, Rishi
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 1/1) populartajo

Not Voting: (6/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Battle Mage, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth

Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

[Battle Mage]

Everything else anyone's said is pretty much noise.

eh? care to elaborate?

BM

The argument between you and Mirth isn't getting anywhere. Natirasha's claim was nobody's fault except Natirasha's. Parts of the argument aren't even relevant to this game.

Wrong. Wrong. And Wrong.

The discussion between Mirth and myself is going somewhere. I'm trying to establish a well reasoned view of her, and whether you believe it or not, talking does help! Natirasha's claim was most certainly NOT solely Natirasha's fault. I get bollocked for my shite play all the time. It's about time somebody else gets the same flak when they mess up. Even if it is Mirth.
And all parts of the argument are relevant to the game, even the meta ones.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...

I'm not going to rely on meta of you, and I really do ask that you and Sly both pay attention to my play in this game and not metas. (BTW, Sly has a scum meta on me, so I'm a tad worried about him defending me in this game, because he should know better.)

So you are playing how you do as scum?

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.

Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?

Way to read, BM. Since when is riding anyone for claiming town USELESSLY asking them for a claim? No, seriously? I call him out on some this is useless, you take that as me trying to get him to claim. No contridiction here, just you not reading. Yes, it's a null tell. A null tell that he should not have reacted to being probed about.

You said he claimed 'townie'. Townie is most certainly not just 'town'. Seriously if you were really going on about him simply stating the obvious, thats even MORE suspicious. Clutch at straws much? And as for his reaction, you cant seriously claim it was surprising. ANYONE would have responded the same. 99% of newbies would have. I probably would have. I expect most people here would have.

If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.

Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.

I asked him because I was trying to get a read on him. Was more interested in his reaction than anything else. You should know this considering how experienced you are. As it's why anybody asks any type of question in this game.

Maybe so. But the question you asked was one that anyone else would have considered outright blatant rolefishing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...

I'm not going to rely on meta of you, and I really do ask that you and Sly both pay attention to my play in this game and not metas. (BTW, Sly has a scum meta on me, so I'm a tad worried about him defending me in this game, because he should know better.)

So you are playing how you do as scum?

I try my hardest to play the same way regardless of my role, but I do happen to jump on everything in the first few pages as either town or scum. Quit looking for meta and pay attention to this game.

Woah woah woah. Hold your horses sonny. You claim that your meta should reveal consistency throughout your play as both town and scum during the early stages of the game. If that is the case, why would you NOT want this information to be verified.

Sidenote: I hardly think you have the right to talk to me about paying attention to the game. No offense! lol

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.

Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?

Way to read, BM. Since when is riding anyone for claiming town USELESSLY asking them for a claim? No, seriously? I call him out on some this is useless, you take that as me trying to get him to claim. No contridiction here, just you not reading. Yes, it's a null tell. A null tell that he should not have reacted to being probed about.

You said he claimed 'townie'. Townie is most certainly not just 'town'. Seriously if you were really going on about him simply stating the obvious, thats even MORE suspicious. Clutch at straws much? And as for his reaction, you cant seriously claim it was surprising. ANYONE would have responded the same. 99% of newbies would have. I probably would have. I expect most people here would have.

As far as I'm concerned townie = protown regardless of actual role. If you haven't noticed, I attacked everyone for everything at the start of this game, so yes, totally grasping at straws to try and get some sort of reaction beynd "oh this game dynamic sucks for town." And no, not everybody would have responded with "no, I'm not vanilla." He is also not a complete newbie, if you've noticed, so don't try to make excuses for him. Bothers me that you are.

How long have you played on MS again? Jesus christ...
I can just about understand you trying to be different and using 'townie' to mean protown in your own mind. But did you really not give any consideration to the fact that you are in a ridiculously small minority?
In a large number of games on site, Moderators even list vanilla players as 'townies'. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to realise this. I didnt even say that you would just trick complete newbies. I thought you meant 'vanilla' too. If you like, we can ask everyone else here what they would have interpreted it as. And of course, responding to a direct role accusation which you made, is never easy. I'm not making excuses for him. I cant see a great deal of alternative responses, that dont consist of us quicklynching YOU.

If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.

Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.

I asked him because I was trying to get a read on him. Was more interested in his reaction than anything else. You should know this considering how experienced you are. As it's why anybody asks any type of question in this game.

Maybe so. But the question you asked was one that anyone else would have considered outright blatant rolefishing.

Yet they didn't. In fact, I got jumped on for my exchange with Malth and not this. Explain why you think this is so please?

The reason 'this is so' is that in numerous subsequent posts after the incident, even up until very recently, you have been consistently stating that it was Natirashas fault for not understanding something which you made deliberately misleading. If it makes you feel better, we can ask people now.

Guys

- What do you take to mean by the word 'townie'? What would you respond if i asked you whether you were a 'townie' or not?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why are you still defending BG/Rishi?

Im not 100% defending her/him.
1. I think that babygirl sounds more like a frustrated townie that like a frustrated scum. DOES ANYBODY ELSE THINK LIKE ME?
2. Im not outguessing the mod but I strongly suspect that the list of jurors, non-jurors and a defendant is not random. It could be, but this game would be a little unfair for scum if we have a scumdefendant in the first day. This is just my opinion.
3. I still think that there are people far more suspect than babygirl. Read my posts for details.

omfg. grow up, and stop playing the martyr. Am i voting for Babygirl? Is babygirl listed as one of my suspects? Is there even a majority voting for Babygirl? Get a grip and do something useful. We arent killing babygirl today, but unless you can give us a better offer, you might be the alternative.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I hate when threads get long like this.
Thx BM.

Hating long games is a scumtell.

BM

[Battle Mage]

omfg. grow up, and stop playing the martyr. Am i voting for Babygirl? Is babygirl listed as one of my suspects? Is there even a majority voting for Babygirl? Get a grip and do something useful. We arent killing babygirl today, but unless you can give us a better offer, you might be the alternative.

Okay, I'm caught up.

The funny thing is one of the things that really caught my eye was this recent post by Battle Mage. It doesn't matter if people are voting for me or not, as I'm the default lynch if people can't agree. There is absolutely no need for any of you to vote for me, especially those on the jury. All you have to do is withhold your vote to keep a lynch from being unanimous to get me lynched. In fact, if I was a scum on the jury, I would probably do one of two things:

1. Try to distract people from the issues so that a lynch doesn't occur.
2. Lurk.

I haven't noticed anyone on the jury being much of a lurker, but with about eight days to deadline, I think we need to determine if there is a player who is a better lynch than I am. Of course, I'm biased being the defendant.

Thats a valid point, but actually, not what Tajo was getting at. He was clearly arguing for you being town, as opposed to arguing for someone else being scum, or everyone co-ordinating better.

A lot of attention has been centered around Mirth. I don't know why, but I am getting a protown vibe from Mirth. Mirth has gotten into arguments with Malthus and now Battle Mage and I think Mirth has made more sense in those arguments.

Ooi, what is your view on Mirth's behaviour during the Natirasha role claim incident?

So,

Unvote

A couple other small points.

I do believe Narirasha's claim, but I will point out that the role is not necessarily a pro-town role.

I don't like SlySly's PBPA of babygirl. I think it was obvious that she disappeared at that point, meaning she wouldn't ever get a chance to defend herself. Also, I think it's fairly obvious that her play was bad newbie play, and so his arguments seem a little ridiculous.

Anyway, my three top suspects are Sly, malth and BM, and it's not heartening for me to see that they are all on the jury. I'd prefer not to claim at this point, but I will if people think it's best.

I think if you were going to claim, it would have been at the very start of the day. Now i think we are pretty much decided that you arent the play, and there doesnt seem to be alot of point you claiming now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And you, who have also been on the site for over a year, should also know about a little thing called reaction testing.

And you, who have been on the site for over a year, should know about a little thing called an avatar. Geez.

Sorry.. in the middle of my read, but couldn't go on without inserting a sarcastic comment. Will have a post up soon.

No But if you want, I'm sure you can form a club with all the other people who want me to get an avatar and try to convince me

Yeh, people without avatars suck!!!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ooi, what is your view on Mirth's behaviour during the Natirasha role claim incident?

I'll need to look at this again, and will respond to this, but I wanted to respond to another point first.

I think if you were going to claim, it would have been at the very start of the day. Now i think we are pretty much decided that you arent the play, and there doesnt seem to be alot of point you claiming now.

Here's the point, though. I am babygirl now. (Man, I never thought I would type that sentence within my lifetime.) Without a unanimous decision, I AM the play. So, I don't think my claim is completely useless. People who aren't pushing for a lynch are pushing for my lynch without having to do anything. It's the perfect weapon for scum. All they have to do is say, "No one seems scummy to me" and sit back and watch as I get lynched by default. They aren't even going to draw any suspicion doing it.

So, right now, in my eyes, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

You obviously aren't understanding me. Whether or not you get lynched is up to the jury. Now, i think all of us have decided that we don't want you dead. So, how do u suppose a claim is going to help? Its not like you can claim to get yourself out of the firing line. You'd only be wasting our time discussing that when we should be thinking about alternatives. I would suggest 1 of those funky lists Mith uses in some of his games might help with that.

Whilst i appreciate your predicament, its not like you've been of any greater contribution to saving your life than we have. So rather than having a go, how about helping yourself?

BM

[Battle Mage]

You obviously aren't understanding me. Whether or not you get lynched is up to the jury. Now, i think all of us have decided that we don't want you dead. So, how do u suppose a claim is going to help? Its not like you can claim to get yourself out of the firing line. You'd only be wasting our time discussing that when we should be thinking about alternatives. I would suggest 1 of those funky lists Mith uses in some of his games might help with that.

Whilst i appreciate your predicament, its not like you've been of any greater contribution to saving your life than we have. So rather than having a go, how about helping yourself?

Okay, in that case, I did misunderstand what you were saying. Or perhaps you weren't making it clear.

As for my lack of contribution, that's kind of a ridiculous argument. I replaced into the game two days ago and just finished my read this morning and have already posted a couple times. Are you just not paying attention?

Of course i'm paying attention. But you can hardly come in here, having posted a few times, and i should note, none of those posts actually being constructive towards saving you, and criticise everybody else for doing nothing. I dont like criticism at the best of times, but when i'm being criticised by somebody who has done no better than i have, then i get a tad irate.

Oh, and dont ask stupid, patronising questions. It's unbecoming, and looks pretty scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Emotional play = scummy play.

Add that on top of the suspicions I had before.

Vote: Battle Mage

=======================================

Page 14 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 1/1) {malthusis}, Joubert
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 2/1) populartajo, Rishi

Not Voting: (6/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Battle Mage, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth

Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

Malthusis and Natirasha are being prodded.

emotional? Who wouldnt be emotional when they are being goaded? You obviously haven't played a game with me before, but feel free to compare my behaviour here with any other game of mine that i have actively participated in.

I've gotta call OMGUS here.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Rishi, I think the consensus is that you aren't the play. That means that the only way you'd be lynched is by default. A claim isn't going to change that unless it's some kind of investigative role or provides other information that can help us later on in the game, in which case you should claim at the last possible opportunity.

BM, when I hear Townie, I think pro-town, not vanilla.

Now, I've heard others go up against SlySly besides myself, how about some more votes there, eh Jurors?

Ok, i concede. Maybe i didnt word that very well. But, i still think, in practice, if someone thinks that townie=protown, and then proceeds to say someone who hints at being townie is letting their ROLE slip, they are quite clearly being majorly inconsistent. Regardless, i guess its time we started discussing who to lynch, rather than whether Mirth is an idiot, or a genius.

By 'go up against' Sly do you mean argue with, or suspect? Because whilst i have disagreed with him, i dont think he is worth a vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So leave the dead horse alone.

You think it's wise to let Rishi off that easy?

Now, I've heard others go up against SlySly besides myself, how about some more votes there, eh Jurors?

Gave up on getting me lynched already? Why?

I personally don't find Sly suspicious enough to vote. I am trying to decide between you, BM, and Nat. I don't believe Nat's claim, but lynching someone who claimed a powerrole day 1 would be incredably stupid. You, well, your play has been rather tunnelvisioned and less than satisfactory, but I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching you either, won't go into why. And BM, well, BM really just bothers me with what exactly he's taking issue with, but that could just be BM being himself...

I'm also really not liking the "BG/Rishi" is town thing coming from Tajo...

I can go for Tajo as an opening vote.

Vote: Populartajo

Did anyone else look into the concordet voting system i suggested we use? Ive also just noticed that its in fact easier to lynch a juror than a non-juror.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The last few pages have been very tl;dr for me, and I only skimmed, sorry.

I am surprised BM is defending me--he has been in games with me before and should know how I act.

Are you saying that i should have a scum meta of you? :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ironically, Mirth feels it appropriate to criticise Nat for not reading the game, when it seems quite apparent that

she is not reading the game either

. I've still yet to see any comments on my suggestion of using the Concordet system, used in Mith's series of large themes. Was nobody reading either of the two posts i've already mentioned it in? Or is there a reason you haven't deigned to comment on it?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Did not comment because there was nothing to comment on. What exactly did you suggest? Before you tell me to go back and reread your posts, you said that maybe we should consider a list like Mith uses, and then you asked if anyone had any thoughts about a concordet voting system a couple pages later. This all means nothing to me as I do not understand the reference of either post, never having been in any of Mith's large games. Perhaps you should actually explain what it is you're driving at?

They arent solely used in Mith-games, thats just where i encountered them. I think they were used at Thespival as well, and events like that. Try reading one of Mith's old games. Just the first few posts. It'll explain what i mean far better than i can.

BM

=======================================

Page 15 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (1/7) {Battle Mage}

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 1/1) {malthusis}, Joubert
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 2/1) populartajo, Rishi

Not Voting: (5/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth

Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

[Battle Mage]

Ok we know lurking isnt going to help town specially in this game.
We have to do something.
Although my vote doesnt mean anything, Id suggest the jury to vote for Cream that he's far suspicious than babygirl.
Reason : he unvotes Theo with no apparent reason.

ChiefSkye4
Cream147
Gorrad
malthusis
Mirth
SlySly
theopor_COD

Do all the members of the jury here think that Cream is less suspicious than babygirl?

One of the most scummy things I've seen posted in a long while.

Explain why this post is scummy and why it doesnt seem to you like an attempt to stop possible scum in the jurors lurking. Now.

thats really quite weak...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok we know lurking isnt going to help town specially in this game.
We have to do something.
Although my vote doesnt mean anything, Id suggest the jury to vote for Cream that he's far suspicious than babygirl.
Reason : he unvotes Theo with no apparent reason.

ChiefSkye4
Cream147
Gorrad
malthusis
Mirth
SlySly
theopor_COD

Do all the members of the jury here think that Cream is less suspicious than babygirl?

One of the most scummy things I've seen posted in a long while.

Explain why this post is scummy and why it doesnt seem to you like an attempt to stop possible scum in the jurors lurking. Now.

Funny, I don't remember you ever using that reasoning in the past.

And I have no idea how a Condorcet system will help us out.

Because as jurors, we need to come up with a lynch we can all agree on. As such, the condorcet method of ordering players in order of suspicion, can be a good way of ensuring that we definitely reach an a satisfactory alternative lynch in time.

BM

[Battle Mage]

right, jurors, please post your lists of favourite lynches. NOW.

BM

*regarding emotional play, seriously, just meta me. I'm always emotional about Mafia games. Even those i dont really care about.
Rishi, please explain how you think Nat's role could be anti-town?

[Battle Mage]

Right so, with only 2 people weighing in, due to the fact both of you have only deigned to name 3 suspects, we are already in a position where the only lynch we can agree on is Populartajo. Not that i have any real issue with that, but i do worry that it gives us little scope for manoevre.

Anyway, i think it's time to start piling our votes on.

BM

*also, Mirth, just get an avatar. I can understand you want to be like me in every way, but such idol-worship can be confusing for some of the newer players.

[Battle Mage]

lol you seem to be under the false impression that i CARE.

[Battle Mage]

they do that already!

you gonna vote for Tajo or what?

BM

[Battle Mage]

We only have a few days. We need a unanimous vote. You are one of the more active people here, and its not like we're gonna get a premature lynch by any means. But, by not voting you are not setting a good example to the less active people.

FoS: Mirth

< and that is how you do bold tags

BM

[Battle Mage]

I know we're not going to get a premature lynch. I'm holding off because I'm not entirely happy with it and I would like more conversation first. Since when is it my job to set a good example for people? This is not a newbie game. It's also not like deadline is tomorrow. We till have a couple of days and I want to use them.

Look at the overall activity of this game. Not everyone is checking in daily. Its your job to set a good example for people if you are town, because A: you want to give townies every opportunity to contribute and B: you dont want to give scum an excuse to NOT contribute.
We need a unanimous verdict to even save Rishi here, so the only way you are going to get an alternative lynch is by convincing Gorrad. at the very LEAST. You have not attempted to do this, and you can probably see why i'm not buying the whole 'i'd like more conversation' bs. It's very easy to paddle that, but if you arent giving anything to the game yourself, how can you realistically ask others to do so?

Offer an alternative. Offer something to discuss. Offer SOMETHING. Don't say nothing, and then claim you are waiting for conversation, in order to perhaps recommence your shadow baiting earlier on in the game. It's very far from helpful, and doesnt show you in a protown light.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The logical play for them would be to lurk and comment the less possible.

Oh I WISH things were that simple. Not only does that open you up for a ton of WIFOM, but it also assumes that the lurking scum juror won't be lynched by his peers for lurking. From the beginning, that whole incident was about keeping babygirl from being lynched.

Find another way.

If I'm worried about lurking, I generally use prods. Then they have to lurk in front of everyone.

I didnt ignore it. She is the defendant, duh.

Are you trying to say that it's excusable for the defendant to lurk?

matt....please cast a vote already. thanks

BM

[Battle Mage]

I know we're not going to get a premature lynch. I'm holding off because I'm not entirely happy with it and I would like more conversation first. Since when is it my job to set a good example for people? This is not a newbie game. It's also not like deadline is tomorrow. We till have a couple of days and I want to use them.

Look at the overall activity of this game. Not everyone is checking in daily. Its your job to set a good example for people if you are town, because A: you want to give townies every opportunity to contribute and B: you dont want to give scum an excuse to NOT contribute.
We need a unanimous verdict to even save Rishi here, so the only way you are going to get an alternative lynch is by convincing Gorrad. at the very LEAST. You have not attempted to do this, and you can probably see why i'm not buying the whole 'i'd like more conversation' bs. It's very easy to paddle that, but if you arent giving anything to the game yourself, how can you realistically ask others to do so?

Offer an alternative. Offer something to discuss. Offer SOMETHING. Don't say nothing, and then claim you are waiting for conversation, in order to perhaps recommence your shadow baiting earlier on in the game. It's very far from helpful, and doesnt show you in a protown light.

BM

I don't think you have the right to levy this criticism at me considering I've spent the first few weeks that this game was going on questioning everybody for everything. Frankly, I'm getting just a tiny bit fed up with the fact that people like Joubert keep popping in, making contentless posts, and ignoring my questions. I also don't like the whole "Rishi is town" assumption that is going on here. None of us (except scum and/or Rishi can know this for sure) so I'm a little suspicious of the whole "save Rishi" campaign that started back when Tajo and a couple of other people somehow magically deduced BG was innocent. So while I don't think Rishi is the best lynch, I don't like the assumption that he's not scum that's going around. I don't like my own personal list of suspects because it's mainly based on the inactivity of half the town. I know that not everyone can check the game every day, but it is not my responsibility to hold their hands and offer them a ready made lynch target because they don't feel like drawing up their own lists of suspects.

And I've decided that I'd much prefer a Joubert lynch to a Tajo lynch, because at least Tajo is trying to participate.

First off, i have the right to do whatever the hell i like. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll come to know and respect the way i play. I don't cower from a fight.
Secondly, it is the fact that you spent the most part of the early stages of the game chasing absolutely f*all that makes me concerned that you arent interested in actually committing to a lynch on good grounds- rather you want to continue to hunt for nonentities in order to fill up the thread and waste the day.

I'll read Joubert's play soon. You'll need Gorrad's thoughts too.

BM

[Battle Mage]

right, jurors, please post your lists of favourite lynches. NOW.

If I had to vote, only one person even stands out mildly to me, and that would be BM, and maybe, maybe, maybe Joubert. And not even that much. Now, BG stuck out to me as scummy, but Rishi is picking up the slack, and I'm not sure what to think about that whole ship now, so I can't wager there.

Quite honestly, I'd be willing to thow my vote to wherever it is needed to be unanimous, but I'd prefer it be BM or Joubert.

I dont suppose this is anything to do with the fact i have attacked and criticised your play? :Roll:

BM

[Battle Mage]

right, so because of CS, we are now forced to choose between 2 sub-optimal candidates. Wonderful. I'll read through Joubert and see whether we convict him or Rishi.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Sub-optimal? I didn't plug people's lists into the condorcet generator, but I think Joubert would've won that vote.

sub-optimal = not one of my ideal targets by a long shot.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ChiefSkye4 wrote:
*blinkblink* It could possibly be the ever looming deadline of, like, 48 hours.

Hmmm, yeah, the deadline is near, that doesn't mean we should act irrational...

Acting quickly is definitly not acting irrationally Joubert

So about participation, for the main part of the beginning of the game, RL was the cause.

I have to agree with Mirth on this that you should have mentioned this if that was indeed the cause.

And so we have, the case on Joubert. For crying out loud. You want him lynched based on this!?!?

right, so because of CS, we are now forced to choose between 2 sub-optimal candidates.

If Joubert isn't your #1 candidate, who is? Rishi?[/quote]

No. Tajo, or CS would be my top choices from what i recall of my read. There isnt a case on Joubert. Nor is there a case on Rishi (except that he can be annoying).

BM

[Battle Mage]

Damnit i really wanna see Tajo hang. I think we'll learn so much from it.
I'm still not feeling the Joubert-wagon ATALL. Firstly, it's pretty much entirely based on lurking, which hardly makes for an effective case. Secondly, if anything, he is giving me town vibes. Thirdly, more than half of the votes on him are of the nature 'i dont think he is that scummy, but i dont want to see Rishi die'. Now lets say he is scum. Im making the assumption that there is at LEAST 1 scumbag on the Jury atm. Most of the jurors so far, have shown attitudes that directly oppose them bussing Joubert. Nobody has defended him either (apart from me apparently). Do you really think all Joubert's scumbuddies would choose to bus him, whilst claiming 'They dont see a case on him atall'??

Rishi, i'd like you to claim please.

thanks,

BM

[Battle Mage]

he probably copied and pasted.
Even YOU dont seem to have the conviction of the Joubert wagon. I get the gut feeling that neither of them are scum, but we have to kill 1 of them.
I await the claim from Rishi.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh, also, Gorrad is voting for Joubert.

You know... I really think that it's fishy that BM is withholding his vote and trying to extract a claim. Can someone demonstrate how it's not?

Gorrad is NOT voting for Joubert. Try, ya know, reading the game.
Hell, even reading the Mod's posts would have told you better.

Of course it's fishy from your perspective. Its your neck on the line. In fact, it's FISHING at its most blatant. I dont see why you want someone to argue that out. Its not like i'm contesting it.

Are you going to claim or not?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Gorrad isn't voting. He didn't unvote.

Since our deadline apparently got pushed back to Monday, I request you don't claim.

assuming his claim doesnt clarify matters, i have an idea which might just save his arse. Of course, if he'd rather listen to you, thats his lookout.

The clock is ticking, comrade.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, i forgot to say: Welcome Sensfan <3

[Battle Mage]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

You mean give him a choice like you are?

No, i mean give me the benefit of the doubt and give him the opportunity to make the choice. And stop fishing from me, when it clearly has no protown incentive.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

You mean give him a choice like you are?

No, i mean give me the benefit of the doubt and give him the opportunity to make the choice. And stop fishing from me, when it clearly has no protown incentive.

BM

So "claim now because I said so" is a choice? I would hate to live in a world ruled by you, BM.

yes. he can claim, or he can not claim. I'm not going to outline the consequences of either action here, just because you said so. At least in a world ruled by me, we would achieve something. In a world ruled by you, the tiniest action taken by the people would be questionned by your good self, and nothing would ever get done. Being firm is sometimes necessary.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

Go ahead and give your idea. I see no reason to claim now.

Lol, you see no reason to claim now? srsly?

Fair enough...

Oh and btw, if you think i'm gonna try and save your ass if you cant even be bothered to put the effort in yourself, you are VERY wrong.

Especially since you never asked Joubert to claim. It means that you're interested in hearing my role, a blatant attempt at information, but not really in evaluating who is a better lynch.

I'd rather not have more claims than we need to. Hence i have asked you to claim. Do me a favour, and dont question my motives until you have given me the opportunity to reveal them. -.-
I've already made it quite clear that i dont want to see Joubert die today.

And I'm sorry that I don't have 18 hours a day to dedicate to Mafia and that I missed the Gorrad thing. I have this thing called, you know, A LIFE.

lol, i dont think you really believe that. LaL?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'd rather not have more claims than we need to. Hence i have asked you to claim. Do me a favour, and dont question my motives until you have given me the opportunity to reveal them. -.-
I've already made it quite clear that i dont want to see Joubert die today.

And I've already made it quite clear that the following facts exist:

1) You suggested condorcet voting and encouraged people to submit their lists.

Indeed. I felt it was the only way we would organise ourselves by deadline.

2) You did not submit a list yourself, nor did you ever compile the lists into a favored lynch, as you said that you would.

I never submitted a list myself because nobody showed any intention of ACTUALLY compiling the lists. I had not stated that i would. The actual purpose of the exercise was to establish who people were willing to lynch. As most people only submitted 3 players, the exercise became farsicle and the result was that we could not reach a decision on which we were all agreed. Something to work on tomorrow i guess.

3) You are not going along with the general opinion of those who have submitted lists and therefore are breaking the implied agreement made when condorcet voting was suggested.

The idea of the condorcet voting system was to establish a lynch we were ALL happy with. I am not happy with a Joubert lynch by any means. I'm quite willing to compromise with a lesser target, but i'm not going to jump at the chance to kill someone who there is NO real case on, and who i feel is most likely town. Thats just how Mafia works.

4) You are now fishing for a roleclaim from me and not from Joubert.

Yup. I think i've made that abundantly clear.

5) You claim to have "motives" that cannot be revealed.

Yep. Well, to be more specific, i have motives which cannot be revealed to YOU.

Do you disagree with any of the facts? If not, and you let me die, then you will have to face the consequences of your actions. If at least two other players asked me to claim (besides you), then I will. But, I don't want to give up the information I have unless absolutely necessary. Right now, I don't think it is.

If you have 'information' i wouldve expected you to claim by now. I've been completely open about how i feel. Why cant you respond in kind?
Time is running out.

And if you think I have no interest in saving myself, then you're just dead wrong.

Do what you will. I don't submit to bullies.

(Yes, the "18 hours a day on Mafia" thing was a joke.)

DEAD wrong? is that a...threat? rofl

Do what you will. I don't submit to idiots.

BM

[Battle Mage]

All right. That's three. I'm not sure why you all want this claim, since I hinted that my claim will be harmful for the town, but here we go:

I'm the judge. I set the jury for the next day by ranking all the people in the game from top to bottom.

It doesn't seem to be an exact science, but there's definitely some influence. The top four people on babygirl's list made the jury, numbers five and six were skipped and then seven through nine made the jury.

Babygirl put herself as Number 5, for the record. I'm not allowed to put myself at the top of the list, for the record.

can you please post the list that Babygirl submitted?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Rishi, there is one concern I have. If BM doesn't shift soon, you may have to claim, especially if you are a power role. However, this isn't in my opinion, the optimal situation. Condorcet voting has told us that Joubert is the preferred conviction. Therefore, from my eyes, we should be convicting Joubert. Joubert should be claiming. Rishi should be staying alive (and therefore not claiming).

thats the problem. Whilst some of you have reached a consensus that Joubert is a good lynch, im just not feeling it. A compromise is one thing. Convicting someone i feel is highly likely to be town, on poor reasoning, is quite another. That said, Rishi has claimed a confirmable power-role.
I need to reread, and i want to see Babygirl's alleged rankings from the previous night, but in the meantime, it's probably advisable that we wait for any

counter-claims

as 'The Judge' seems to be a pretty integral part of the flavour.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Rishi, there is one concern I have. If BM doesn't shift soon, you may have to claim, especially if you are a power role. However, this isn't in my opinion, the optimal situation. Condorcet voting has told us that Joubert is the preferred conviction. Therefore, from my eyes, we should be convicting Joubert. Joubert should be claiming. Rishi should be staying alive (and therefore not claiming).

thats the problem. Whilst some of you have reached a consensus that Joubert is a good lynch, im just not feeling it. A compromise is one thing. Convicting someone i feel is highly likely to be town, on poor reasoning, is quite another. That said, Rishi has claimed a confirmable power-role.
I need to reread, and i want to see Babygirl's alleged rankings from the previous night, but in the meantime, it's probably advisable that we wait for any

counter-claims

as 'The Judge' seems to be a pretty integral part of the flavour.

BM

BM,

I do not feel that a single Jury member should have the right to stop a lynch. If we allow Jury members to stop a lynch because they are 'not feeling it', then a Jury of 2 Scum with a Town defendant will be lynching Town, something we cannot allow. As far as I am concerned, if most (read all but 1 or 2) of the Jury - as well as a good part of the Town - want someone lynched, the Jury members must fall in line and vote for that person. You are not higher than any of us, and I am not willing to give you the kind of leverage and power you seem to want. Vote for Joubert before the Day ends, or I will be gunning for your lynch tomorrow.

Sensfan,

Thats a really poorly thought out analogy. If we force jury members to vote for somebody who the majority agrees, it will only a very small proportion of the town to be wrong for us to concede the game. Also, if people dont give their opinions, we don't learn anything. Let's say nobody supports a Joubert lynch with any real conviction (not that far from the truth, ironically enough lol) but he gets strung up because those who do oppose it, feel obliged to go along with it anyway. What the hell do we learn!?
If he comes up scum, we learn nothing from players behaviour towards him. If he comes up town, we learn nothing from players behaviour towards him. You seem to want us to take pot-shots into the town, by removing a crucial dimension of Scumhunting.

You know me, Sensfan. I'm not afraid to be controversial at the best of times. I certainly won't be told what to do by someone who is no more confirmed innocent than the next guy. Whether i am 'higher' than you or not is irrelevant. We are all equal, and have equal entitlement to an opinion. I'm not quite sure where you got the impression i was going to run the deadline out, but it was unfounded. WAS. Now, i'm not so sure. I don't respond well to being ordered around. Nobody is that edgy about saving Joubert.

You can gun for my lynch tomorrow all you want. But because you carry no more sway than anyone else here, including myself, i'm not taking your threat all that seriously. Especially coming from someone who expects us to follow a policy of minimal scumhunting. rofl

I've asked for any counter-claims. By not responding, you are wasting time. Wouldn't want Rishi's death on your head, would ya?

love,

BM

xxxx

[Battle Mage]

If we force jury members to vote for somebody who the majority agrees, it will only a very small proportion of the town to be wrong for us to concede the game.

BM,

The above sentence is downright wrong, seeing as the lynch in a normal game is controlled by the majority of votes.


Lots of love,

SensFan

xoxoxo


P.S. We may or may not be as 'equal' as you may think, in terms of opinion .

No, the above statement is right, if u assume that in a normal game, scum make up approximately 1/4 of the players at the start. That means that only 1/3 of the town is required to be wrong for us to be screwed. Or more importantly, we need 2/3 of the town to be absolutely correct about who is scum, or we face mislynch after mislynch, after mislynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

can you please post the list that Babygirl submitted?

Absolutely not. I don't even know what purpose this would serve. I told you all the relevant information from the list.

Plus, it would fall under the general rule of not quoting things that the mod has sent.

It would help to validate your claim. I'm frankly not bothered if you die or not at this point, if you are determined to slow us down, and reluctant to give the town the information it needs to confirm you.

What possible reason would i want this information as scum?

And dont pull the 'Mod wont let me' bs. A cop can claim who he investigates, and a doc can claim who he targets. Why wouldnt you be able to claim who BG submitted in the same manner?

There is no way you could be punished for that. Enough excuses. Finish claiming.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Rishi, there is one concern I have. If BM doesn't shift soon, you may have to claim, especially if you are a power role. However, this isn't in my opinion, the optimal situation. Condorcet voting has told us that Joubert is the preferred conviction. Therefore, from my eyes, we should be convicting Joubert. Joubert should be claiming. Rishi should be staying alive (and therefore not claiming).

thats the problem. Whilst some of you have reached a consensus that Joubert is a good lynch, im just not feeling it. A compromise is one thing. Convicting someone i feel is highly likely to be town, on poor reasoning, is quite another. That said, Rishi has claimed a confirmable power-role.
I need to reread, and i want to see Babygirl's alleged rankings from the previous night, but in the meantime, it's probably advisable that we wait for any

counter-claims

as 'The Judge' seems to be a pretty integral part of the flavour.

BM

I don't expect you to vote yet BM, if you want to wait to see if there are any counterclaims, then fine. However, assuming no counterclaims, the choice you are left to make is a simple one. It may be unfortunate, but we have known that this was the case since Chief Skye put on his vote. If the judge is convicted due to your not voting, then on your head be it.

Joubert, a claim from you would be handy.

As much as it pains me to say it, i'll see a potential power role hang, if he is completely unwilling to claim his previous night choice. Why would he be reluctant to claim this, if he was town?

You're probably right about a Joubert claim at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

can you please post the list that Babygirl submitted?

Absolutely not. I don't even know what purpose this would serve. I told you all the relevant information from the list.

Plus, it would fall under the general rule of not quoting things that the mod has sent.

It would help to validate your claim. I'm frankly not bothered if you die or not at this point, if you are determined to slow us down, and reluctant to give the town the information it needs to confirm you.

What possible reason would i want this information as scum?

And dont pull the 'Mod wont let me' bs. A cop can claim who he investigates, and a doc can claim who he targets. Why wouldnt you be able to claim who BG submitted in the same manner?

There is no way you could be punished for that. Enough excuses. Finish claiming.

Will you vote for Joubert if I post the list? You're the one who is stalling the game more than anyone else.

That depends on what the list looks like. Most probably, yes. To put it another way, if you don't post the list, i will not be voting for Joubert.

Clear?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am itching to unvote and vote BM or Sens right now for pushing a claim out of Rishi, but not pushing Joubert to claim. Especially BM for rather obviously trying to push the lynch until deadline and get Rishi lynched.

*sigh*

gg reading comprehension. If you'd read, like, the last 3 or 4 posts, you'd have seen that i have encouraged Joubert to claim. Of course, that does not detract from the fact that your suggestion of treating them as equals, is ill-considered. Deadline isnt for another 24 hours yet. Don't you think i'm getting a fair bit of stick anyway? So tell me, Mirth, why do you think i would invest in a strategy of posting regularly and quite blatantly, refraining from committing to a hammer with time left to go?

Your thought process really needs some work...

BM

[Battle Mage]

You shouldn't have posted that.

My hands were tied. If I wanted to save myself, what do you think I should I have done?

Not given BM any more info that he doesn't need. Note how he didnt mention the plan to save you that he supposedly has

Mirth, you really are quite opaque, are you not?

I'll humour you. How do you think, as scum, i gain from Rishi claiming BG's actual nightchoice?
I'm genuinely intrigued as to what you are thinking. At the moment, everything you say strikes me as really really dumb, and i'm sure you've got SOMETHING intelligent up your sleeve.

I havent mentioned the plan, but i will if necessary. It's irrelevant now anyway, given Rishi's claim, but could theoretically be used later.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am itching to unvote and vote BM or Sens right now for pushing a claim out of Rishi, but not pushing Joubert to claim.

I asked for a claim from both, in one sentence. I did not push either, really, but I did push equally.

Mirth, are you admitting you made a mistake in calling me out?

Dude, wtf? You make it sound like Mirth being wrong about something is special? She's as consistent in that department as the scum NK, but much more regular. I dont see why you are pushing this further.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If we force jury members to vote for somebody who the majority agrees, it will only a very small proportion of the town to be wrong for us to concede the game.

BM,

The above sentence is downright wrong, seeing as the lynch in a normal game is controlled by the majority of votes.


Lots of love,

SensFan

xoxoxo


P.S. We may or may not be as 'equal' as you may think, in terms of opinion .

No, the above statement is right, if u assume that in a normal game, scum make up approximately 1/4 of the players at the start. That means that only 1/3 of the town is required to be wrong for us to be screwed. Or more importantly, we need 2/3 of the town to be absolutely correct about who is scum, or we face mislynch after mislynch, after mislynch.

BM

No, you fail. In a normal game, majority determines the lynch. I see no reason why you should be allowed to veto the majority choice here, saying that there is not enough support for him to be lynched.

Assuming no counter-claims, you will be voting Joubert today.

Umm, firstly, i should note that the jurors do not make up the entirety of the town. I'm not the only one who thinks Joubert is probably town. I just appear to be the one being scapegoated. Secondly, if i disagree with something, i'll say so. The whole concept of the game is such. If you want to complain about the setup, take it to the moderator. Hell, request replacement if you're that wound up about it!

In the words of somebody earlier (Natirasha i believe?):

If Joubert comes up town, on your head be it. Maybe tomorrow you'll learn to shut your mouth unless you have something useful to say. Suggesting dodgy plans, and generally antagonising people is NOT useful, and is best saved for scumchat.

kthxbai.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If we force jury members to vote for somebody who the majority agrees, it will only a very small proportion of the town to be wrong for us to concede the game.

BM,

The above sentence is downright wrong, seeing as the lynch in a normal game is controlled by the majority of votes.


Lots of love,

SensFan

xoxoxo


P.S. We may or may not be as 'equal' as you may think, in terms of opinion .

No, the above statement is right, if u assume that in a normal game, scum make up approximately 1/4 of the players at the start. That means that only 1/3 of the town is required to be wrong for us to be screwed. Or more importantly, we need 2/3 of the town to be absolutely correct about who is scum, or we face mislynch after mislynch, after mislynch.

BM

No, you fail. In a normal game, majority determines the lynch. I see no reason why you should be allowed to veto the majority choice here, saying that there is not enough support for him to be lynched.

Assuming no counter-claims, you will be voting Joubert today.

Umm, firstly, i should note that the jurors do not make up the entirety of the town. I'm not the only one who thinks Joubert is probably town. I just appear to be the one being scapegoated. Secondly, if i disagree with something, i'll say so. The whole concept of the game is such. If you want to complain about the setup, take it to the moderator. Hell, request replacement if you're that wound up about it!

In the words of somebody earlier (Natirasha i believe?):

If Joubert comes up town, on your head be it. Maybe tomorrow you'll learn to shut your mouth unless you have something useful to say. Suggesting dodgy plans, and generally antagonising people is NOT useful, and is best saved for scumchat.

kthxbai.

BM

I'm fine with the concept of the game. I'm not fine with you seeming to refuse to lynch Joubert, and letting a random player die instead.

I'm not hammering Joubert YET if thats what you mean. Since when did using the time we have during the day, become a scumtell. Had we not had this bickering, and Rishi done as i'd said faster, we might not have had to settle for a sub-par lynch today. Lesson learnt i hope, and tomorrow we can really get the game started.

Ftr, i believe Rishi's claim, and no longer want to hear a counter-claim.
I'd also like to request that tomorrow, you DON'T claim who you ranked for the jury. It may or may not be apparent why that is.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Joubert

- your turn to claim buddy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM.

Just to be clear, you will be hammering Joubert today, right?

Sensfan.












Almost certainly, yes. But i'd still like to hear a claim from Joubert.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am itching to unvote and vote BM or Sens right now for pushing a claim out of Rishi, but not pushing Joubert to claim.

I asked for a claim from both, in one sentence. I did not push either, really, but I did push equally.

Mirth, are you admitting you made a mistake in calling me out?

Yes, sorry, still not a fan of you (or Nat) asking for claims from Rishi. I am mostly concerned with BM though.

Ok, so you lumped Sensfan in with me, why exactly?
It wouldnt be to try and make you look less tunnel-visioned would it? rofl

BM: if you think I'm an idiot, I'm not going to dissuade you.

I know you arent!
But, it'd sure be funny to see you try. lol

keep it in your pants.

Oh wow. It's like the second time you've said this, in this game alone. It is truly a testament to your ability at this game called Mafia, that your time spent here on MafiaScum can adequately culminate in a 'penis' joke.

I think you're trying to break the game. If you have a list and can figure out how it works, gamebreaking is theoretically possible.

Do i look like Adel to you? lol
I'm not trying to break anything. But, i am trying to validate as many claims as possible. What makes you think i'd have a better chance of working out how the games works than you or anyone else, anyway?

By the way, Joubert posted after he was already L-1. So he has had no reason not to claim, unlike Rishi. (And Joubert, as to what I asked you, you could go look that up yourself. "Look it up for me" is not an adequate reason to avoid answering.)

Wait, are you trying to tell me that Rishi had a reason not to claim? Jesus, it's non-stop with you isn't it!?
In the same manner as Rishi, Joubert too has a choice. He can claim, or he can not claim. The result of either action is fairly self-explanatory.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't really see why Rishi posting that list was a good thing or a bad thing. It doesn't tell the scum anything more than they already knew. It didn't help the town in anyway either. It didn't help reinforce the claim, because it was easy to forge. BM, make sure you do hammer Joubert before the deadline, taking note of the timezone of the deadline.

If Joubert comes up town, on your head be it.

You copied my 'on your head be it'! How dare you!

Oh, by the way Natirasha, I haven't forgot about your claim of Maya Fey. I look forward to reading Joubert's role pm tomorrow.

Why would he forge a claim that was markedly and deliberately inconsistent with how the jurors had ACTUALLY been decided?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes, sorry, still not a fan of you (or Nat) asking for claims from Rishi. I am mostly concerned with BM though.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I wanted a claim from them for separate reasons, actually.

*BG should have claimed first thing, since she was the Defendant. I expect that tomorrow's defendant claim upfront, since they are the default lynch.

*Joubert needed to claim because he was at Lynch-3, with people clamoring for his lynch. This is just a regular Mafia claim situation.

Much as i tend to disagree with both due to the different nature of this game, in practice you are probably right.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not being tunnelvisioned.

I think you're trying to break the game. If you have a list and can figure out how it works, gamebreaking is theoretically possible.

Do i look like Adel to you? lol
I'm not trying to break anything. But, i am trying to validate as many claims as possible. What makes you think i'd have a better chance of working out how the games works than you or anyone else, anyway?

I have never played with Adel, so I don't understand the reference. I don't know if you'd have a better chance, but you're the only one so gung ho about getting all the info you can out of Rishi.

Maybe that's because nobody else has given his claim due thought and attention.

By the way, Joubert posted after he was already L-1. So he has had no reason not to claim, unlike Rishi. (And Joubert, as to what I asked you, you could go look that up yourself. "Look it up for me" is not an adequate reason to avoid answering.)

Wait, are you trying to tell me that Rishi had a reason not to claim? Jesus, it's non-stop with you isn't it!?
In the same manner as Rishi, Joubert too has a choice. He can claim, or he can not claim. The result of either action is fairly self-explanatory.

BM

Rishi had a perfectly good reason not to claim, and seeing what his role is, t'would have been better if he didn't.

I beg to differ. If he hadnt claimed, he'd have died. I'd have made sure of that. Would you rather we have a dead power role, or an outted power role? Making the assumption that we have some sort of protective role in our midst, i dont think the claim is a bad thing by any means.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't really see why Rishi posting that list was a good thing or a bad thing. It doesn't tell the scum anything more than they already knew. It didn't help the town in anyway either. It didn't help reinforce the claim, because it was easy to forge. BM, make sure you do hammer Joubert before the deadline, taking note of the timezone of the deadline.

If Joubert comes up town, on your head be it.

You copied my 'on your head be it'! How dare you!

Oh, by the way Natirasha, I haven't forgot about your claim of Maya Fey. I look forward to reading Joubert's role pm tomorrow.

Why would he forge a claim that was markedly and deliberately inconsistent with how the jurors had ACTUALLY been decided?

BM

I assume you're talking about the fact that the top 7 weren't picked as jurors. This was said in Rishi's original claim, ergo that list that you were begging for was not in anyway necessary and does not back up his claim at all. If you believed that there was room for doubt with Rishi's original claim, then there is still room for doubt now.

Incorrect.

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

We can discuss this further tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yay, I guess.

We'll see whether it's yay or not when we get to the conviction scene.

indeed. frankly, i'm just praying that Joubert was the lesser of two evils...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Considering he blatantly ignored the request for a claim, I think he might have been.

...you mean... in the same way Rishi did? lol

[Battle Mage]

I am really soured by the way that Day 1 ended. I don't like how Sens and BM forced me into a claim. Also, BM wasn't really defending Joubert, but he was definitely skittish about voting him.

I don't necessarily want to see a claim from BM just yet. But I do have to say it'd take a lot to convince me to move a vote elsewhere.

Actually, i pretty much WAS defending Joubert. There was no real case against him. The fact he was scum is barely relevant to that. Of course, this approach gives u 2 key points to assess. Firstly, would BM-Scum put himself right into the firing line, and be SO controversial on Day 1, in defence of a scumbuddy, who he allows to get revealed that day anyway. Surely the damage of me linking myself to him had already been done, and by NOT hammering, i could have left both our affiliations as WIFOM.
The second point is a less WIFOMy one. Considering how weak the case against Joubert was, how many people pushing his lynch yesterday were doing so from a protown point of view (looking for scummy play OBJECTIVELY) and how many people were doing so from a scum point of view - LOOKING for things to pick up on about him. Lets face it, if you're going to bus, you need some sort of case, or it will backfire. We clearly had large scale bussing yesterday, so who had some doubt in their case, and who was 'SURE' Joubert would come up scum.

I read something overnight that could prove useful today, assuming i am not killed. I'll bring that to the fore later.

First thing i'll say, is that i will be claiming today (within the next few hours). I was sure this was coming (for 3 reasons), so i've already planned how we should play today, and the first thing we need is for me to claim as early as possible. Gorrad and Mirth dying is somewhat of a complication, but my role should hopefully be confirmable at this point anyway.

Another thing i am curious about is the fact we had a double kill. I'm not seeing 2 scumgroups here, but would a Vig have killed Mirth over Populartajo, or hell- ME? lol

Oh and Rishi, you might feel like bitching about my play yesterday now, but you'll see very soon that my play was exactly right, given the knowledge that i have.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If it was a vig that killed Mirth, then stupid vig is stupid. I think we were fairly lucky that Joubert turned up as scum yesterday, as I think we had quite a poor and disorganised day. I hope that today we play a bit better, with the same end result. I'd love to know what role Edgeworth had, but I guess I'll have to wait until the end.

Yeh, i think role speculation on the dead and unclaimed is probably ill-advised, as it will only help scum with fakeclaims etc.
I have 1 potential scenario in which the night actions make sense...and it isnt all that likely. lol
The flavour is also a tad confusing.

Also, remember our little discussion yesterday? soon, all will be revealed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

actually, Nat, please DON'T claim this, until after i've claimed. Again, it could help to confirm me. Same goes for you Rishi btw. Dont claim ur list from last night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, remember our little discussion yesterday? soon, all will be revealed.

Are you referring to this?

I don't really see why Rishi posting that list was a good thing or a bad thing. It doesn't tell the scum anything more than they already knew. It didn't help the town in anyway either. It didn't help reinforce the claim, because it was easy to forge. BM, make sure you do hammer Joubert before the deadline, taking note of the timezone of the deadline.

If Joubert comes up town, on your head be it.

You copied my 'on your head be it'! How dare you!

Oh, by the way Natirasha, I haven't forgot about your claim of Maya Fey. I look forward to reading Joubert's role pm tomorrow.

Why would he forge a claim that was markedly and deliberately inconsistent with how the jurors had ACTUALLY been decided?

BM

I assume you're talking about the fact that the top 7 weren't picked as jurors. This was said in Rishi's original claim, ergo that list that you were begging for was not in anyway necessary and does not back up his claim at all. If you believed that there was room for doubt with Rishi's original claim, then there is still room for doubt now.

yes.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, i think waiting around any more is pretty pointless. Time to claim!

I am the

Judge

. Yeh that's right. The same role Rishi claimed. And my role works in exactly the same way. Each night i submit a ranked list, of who i want in the Jury the next day. I can't put myself top, for some reason i haven't yet figured out. In other words, i have the exact same role as Rishi.

That's the reason i wanted him to claim his list yesterday. Because i had a copy of the list Theo submitted on that night, and i wanted to compare them. I believe at the time i said that i was assessing the claim. In reality, that meant comparing my list, rishi's list, and the actual jurors selected.
Sure enough, the results fitted to the extent that by combining our respective scores with equal weighting, the 6 people (excluding the defendant- which was him) with the highest ranking overall, were the jurors for that day.

My role is also the reason i was interested in a counter-claim (before he claimed his list, which confirmed him in my eyes) in order to see if we had a 3rd Judge to help select the Jury. I think we can now be sure that this is not the case. Joubert's role also strongly suggests the presence of more than 1 Judge- (what scumbag has a role that can only affect 1 player?). It also confirms that Judge's are protown (i did think a scum-judge was possible to counter-balance the effect of a protown judge and a protown defendant selector).

I think i breadcrumbed just about enough. Of course, because Rishi hasnt claimed, he can verify whether my results (which i'll hook out in a sec) correllate with his, in the same manner i did for the first night.

I've also got another theory about our roles. Interesting that the two judges, were the first 2 people on trial. I wondered why we can't place ourselves top. My thought is that, for the first 2 days at least, the judge who ranks THEMSELVES highest, becomes the defendant. (some sort of punishment for being selfish and arrogant?)

So yeh, i think it's best we get that out of the way now. The sooner i'm confirmed beyond some doubt, the sooner we can get lynching another scumbag.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Here is my list from N0:

1. malthusis
2. Mirth
3. Gorrad
4. Cream147
5. Joubert
6. theopor_COD
7. babygirl86
8. ChiefSkye4
9. Natirasha
10. populartajo
11. SlySly
12. MafiaSSK

Also, i just checked my role pm, and my actual rolename is 'Chief Judge'. Did you get that too Rishi?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Last night's choices. I'll explain my reasons later.

1. Rishi
2. Battle Mage
3. Matt_S
4. Gorrad
5. Cream147
6. Natirasha
7. ChiefSkye4
8. Malthusis
9. populartajo
10. SensFan
11. Mirth

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've also got another theory about our roles. Interesting that the two judges, were the first 2 people on trial. I wondered why we can't place ourselves top. My thought is that, for the first 2 days at least, the judge who ranks THEMSELVES highest, becomes the defendant. (some sort of punishment for being selfish and arrogant?)

Actually, my thought was that the person at the top of the list automatically made the jury. But I don't know.

No, i think i can explain that. My theory is that, if you add together the top ranking (1) and the bottom ranking (number of players) you get the 'average' total. Normally, with the jury being comprised of half the players, those above the average are likely to get in, and those below, are not. By allowing judges to place themselves top, their score CANNOT be below the average. As it is, by ranking myself second, i figured unless you placed me bottom of your list, i'd probably be in the jury. The way i see it, there has to be a way of countering that.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I believe BM's claim, actually. I'm the Puisne Judge, which means that BM outranks me. I assume that means that his list takes precedence in case of ties.

If you think it'd be helpful to publish my list from last night, I will, but I can confirm that everything seems consistent so far. If you combine our lists, take out the people who were killed last night and the defendant, the top five people would make up the jury.

So, BM, your play from yesterday actually makes sense.

I'd like to have everyone check in, but then we're going to have to find an alternate lynch to BM.

Yeh i might check that out later. what does 'Puisne' mean?
I dont think you need to reveal your list, but i cant see it mattering either way. I'd like to at least hear what Natirasha has to say about Joubert's pm before we do anything else.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Holy crap. I'm so confused.

I assumed at first that it was the Prosecutor who chose the defendants, but I dunno anymore. As for the bailiff, I have a theory, but it's just baseless speculation, so I won't mention it yet.

*slow, sarcastic clapping*

Thanks for being here, and reading the game Matt. REALLY fulfilling your potential here, arent ya? -.-

BM

=======================================

Page 24 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Battle Mage: (0/5)
malthusis: (0/5)
populartajo: (0/5)
SensFan: (0/5)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/4, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/4, 0/1)
Matt_S: (0/4, 0/1)
Natirasha: (0/4, 0/1)
Rishi: (0/4, 0/1)

Not Voting: (9/9) Battle Mage, malthusis, populartajo, SensFan, ChiefSkye4, Cream147, Matt_S, Natirasha, Rishi

Deadline for D2: Sunday August 3 at 12:00 pm GMT+10
=======================================

[Battle Mage]

Matt, this may clear things up:

Judge: makes a list of people to be jurors.The highest (average) people on the list get to be jurors. (There are 2 ranks, BM is the Highest Rank, Rishi is the lower one)
Prosecuter: I assume they make a list of players to be the defendent in the same manner as the judge.

Matt, what is your idea on the baliff?

that assumes we have multiple prosecutors, and probably a prosecutor corrupter.

BM

[Battle Mage]

yes please. Temp replacement, or week-long deadline extension.

BM

[Battle Mage]

yes please. Temp replacement, or week-long deadline extension.

BM

Or a perm replacement?

why?

BM

[Battle Mage]

hmm, i dont get it.

[Battle Mage]

yeh i just reread a bit, and i'm pretty sure the suspect i noted over night was CS. I'm not going to go into details atm. All i'll say is, from reading her posts in isolation, her play doesn't add up. Might i suggest in order to get some focus here, the rest of the jurors read her posts, and see what they think?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've reread ChiefSkye, and I'd like to ask a question.

(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

Hmm. What made you feel the need to repeat a question which has already been both asked and answered on more than 1 occassion?
In fairness to Rishi, he has given a judgement on CS. You, inexplicably haven't. As such, i'd like to see a basic PbPa from you. Then i'll post my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

BM

[Battle Mage]

In fairness to Rishi, he has given a judgement on CS. You, inexplicably haven't. As such, i'd like to see a basic PbPa from you. Then i'll post my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

I'd rather see you make the case. You are the defendant. I do believe your claim, and I absolutely do not want to see you lynched, but I'm not sure I like the way you're ordering people around.

is it out of character after yesterday? lol

[Battle Mage]

I've reread ChiefSkye, and I'd like to ask a question.

(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

Hmm. What made you feel the need to repeat a question which has already been both asked and answered on more than 1 occassion?
In fairness to Rishi, he has given a judgement on CS. You, inexplicably haven't. As such, i'd like to see a basic PbPa from you. Then i'll post my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

BM

Sorry I didn't make this clear, but my read of ChiefSkye is perfectly neutral. There is nothing I found particularly out of place in her posts. The question, which I quoted because it basically asks the question I want to ask of you, could be more specific I suppose. I could've and maybe should've asked, what doesn't add up about ChiefSkye's play, because I'm not seeing it? If you are incredibly desperate for a point by point analysis, I will give you one later when I've got more time, but a point by point analysis to describe my neutral read I would find annoying to do.

Point by Point analysis? Erm, not quite.
Post by Post Analysis is what i want. A comment on each post of CS's about whether it feels protown, scummy, or just plain odd. Specifically the earlier posts. Recently she hasnt felt as bad to me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've reread ChiefSkye, and I'd like to ask a question.

(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

Hmm. What made you feel the need to repeat a question which has already been both asked and answered on more than 1 occassion?
In fairness to Rishi, he has given a judgement on CS. You, inexplicably haven't. As such, i'd like to see a basic PbPa from you. Then i'll post my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

BM

Sorry I didn't make this clear, but my read of ChiefSkye is perfectly neutral. There is nothing I found particularly out of place in her posts. The question, which I quoted because it basically asks the question I want to ask of you, could be more specific I suppose. I could've and maybe should've asked, what doesn't add up about ChiefSkye's play, because I'm not seeing it? If you are incredibly desperate for a point by point analysis, I will give you one later when I've got more time, but a point by point analysis to describe my neutral read I would find annoying to do.

Point by Point analysis? Erm, not quite.
Post by Post Analysis is what i want. A comment on each post of CS's about whether it feels protown, scummy, or just plain odd. Specifically the earlier posts. Recently she hasnt felt as bad to me.

BM

Sorry, got the term wrong, post by post analysis is what I meant. I will do one...just need to muster up enough willpower. I'm a lazy person.

It's not like i'm asking for alot of work. CS hasnt posted THAT much.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've reread ChiefSkye, and I'd like to ask a question.

(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

Hmm. What made you feel the need to repeat a question which has already been both asked and answered on more than 1 occassion?
In fairness to Rishi, he has given a judgement on CS. You, inexplicably haven't. As such, i'd like to see a basic PbPa from you. Then i'll post my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

BM

Sorry I didn't make this clear, but my read of ChiefSkye is perfectly neutral. There is nothing I found particularly out of place in her posts. The question, which I quoted because it basically asks the question I want to ask of you, could be more specific I suppose. I could've and maybe should've asked, what doesn't add up about ChiefSkye's play, because I'm not seeing it? If you are incredibly desperate for a point by point analysis, I will give you one later when I've got more time, but a point by point analysis to describe my neutral read I would find annoying to do.

Point by Point analysis? Erm, not quite.
Post by Post Analysis is what i want. A comment on each post of CS's about whether it feels protown, scummy, or just plain odd. Specifically the earlier posts. Recently she hasnt felt as bad to me.

BM

You're asking him to do a post-by-post of me, so I wonder if you'd take my request that you do the same, and give me a chance to defend and explain myself, instead of throwing me a vague 'you're scummy'.

Pretty

please.

Actually, not even a post-by-post if you don't want, just what you think is specifically scummy. Whichever you prefer though.

Lol, with all due respect, please KEEP UP. The whole point of getting him to do a pbpa of you, is so that we can contrast it against mine.
Ftr, im not entirely sure begging is a towntell. CS, am i town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I've reread ChiefSkye, and I'd like to ask a question.

(to BM) Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

Hmm. What made you feel the need to repeat a question which has already been both asked and answered on more than 1 occassion?
In fairness to Rishi, he has given a judgement on CS. You, inexplicably haven't. As such, i'd like to see a basic PbPa from you. Then i'll post my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

BM

Sorry I didn't make this clear, but my read of ChiefSkye is perfectly neutral. There is nothing I found particularly out of place in her posts. The question, which I quoted because it basically asks the question I want to ask of you, could be more specific I suppose. I could've and maybe should've asked, what doesn't add up about ChiefSkye's play, because I'm not seeing it? If you are incredibly desperate for a point by point analysis, I will give you one later when I've got more time, but a point by point analysis to describe my neutral read I would find annoying to do.

Point by Point analysis? Erm, not quite.
Post by Post Analysis is what i want. A comment on each post of CS's about whether it feels protown, scummy, or just plain odd. Specifically the earlier posts. Recently she hasnt felt as bad to me.

BM

You're asking him to do a post-by-post of me, so I wonder if you'd take my request that you do the same, and give me a chance to defend and explain myself, instead of throwing me a vague 'you're scummy'.

Pretty

please.

Actually, not even a post-by-post if you don't want, just what you think is specifically scummy. Whichever you prefer though.

Lol, with all due respect, please KEEP UP. The whole point of getting him to do a pbpa of you, is so that we can contrast it against mine.
Ftr, im not entirely sure begging is a towntell. CS, am i town?

BM

Ack. You're right, I must have missed that sentence. Sorry 'bout that. I am reading everything though. Unfortunately, no one is perfect.

I don't know for

sure

if you're town, but I would wager so, yes.

Why would you wager so? what is the case for me being town?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Now I found out some interesting comments after Rishi claimed the Judge (this also confirms him as town) (I knew it x2)

Ok, same question as was posed to CS. Why is Rishi confirmed town? And more importantly, why is he any more confirmed town than me?

For the moment I believe BM's claim (the lists make enough sense to be both false) but Im not sure about his allignment.

So you think it's plausible that the Mafia comprised a Judge Corrupter, AND A JUDGE. 0.o
Wtf kinda setup would that be? The fact is, the Judges are now proven town. I've proven myself because i claimed my full rolename before Rishi, and he verified that his followed a congruent format.

I do find strange that he defended Joubert yesterday

Well, you shouldnt. Firstly, there was no real case for Joubert to be lynched. The scum screwed up big time by bussing him so early on. The only possible good outcome would be that I would get lynched too, but nobody is stupid enough to push a lynch on a confirmed power role, are they?

Oh, wait a minute. You are, arent you?

Secondly, i should note that i am NOT always right. Everybody makes mistakes. Call me out on being fallible if you want, but dont call me out on being scummy, when it's an impossibility.

and I dsilike some reactions when Rishi claimed, like asking counterclaims.

Yes, because i wanted to see if we had any more Judge claimants. At that time, i had no idea whether he was telling the truth or not, because i hadn't seen the list. But i did want to know just how many of us there were. And hopefully, try and lure a scumbag into counterclaiming a role which i could easily confirm/deny.

Also why did BM still not believe Rishi's claim (he was asking for a list to confirm his role) if he got the same role than him?

This game is 'Ace Attorney Mafia'. I'm no genius, but i kinda assumed that the roles would take a certain theme, and of that theme, Judge is a pretty likely role to be found. Tell me, if you are in a game, and you are say, a Roleblocker, and somebody else claims Roleblocker, what is your first reaction? Is it, WOW WE MUST HAVE 2 ROLEBLOCKERS? Probably not. You just aren't sure. Thats the point when you probably ask to find out more about their role, to see if your pm can reinforce/disprove their claim.
The list was obviously the only real way i could confirm his role. And it didnt benefit anyone else in any other way, so i figured it had to be good!

Can he be some sort of Judge scum?

What part of 'Judge CORRUPTER' are you not understanding here? What, do you think the scum have a Power Role, AND a role to invalidate that Power Role?
Grow up.

when I was the hot bitch yesterday.

you never were the 'hot bitch', and you never will be. I look forward to your responses and amended LoS.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Wow. That last post by populartajo was terrible. I'd also like answers to the questions that Battle Mage posed.

I dont find it too terrible.
Ill answer every question later since Im at work now but please reread Matt and tell me what do you all think.
And BM who claimed Judge first: you or Rishi?

he claimed the role. I claimed the rolename. I'd consider the latter to be more confirming, as theres no way i could claim that if it wasnt my role.
I'm not reading Matt until you answer the questions posed to you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Now BM.

Ok, same question as was posed to CS. Why is Rishi confirmed town? And more importantly, why is he any more confirmed town than me?

He claimed to save his ass. And he claimed an important role, so easy to counterclaim in case he were scum. So he's probably town.

Since when was it more protown to claim in order to save your ass than when under no pressure? Are you residing in a parallel universe, where wrong is right, i am scum, and you are town?
I should also note that when Rishi claimed, most of the town had concluded that the jury lists were random/decided by the Mod. If the role didnt even exist, how could it be deemed 'easy to counterclaim'?

Its interesting though that scum didnt kill him and picked Mirth and Gorrad. But I can see the reasoning against strong and annoying players like them.

I kind of agree with you here. Except about Gorrad being annoying ofc. And the fact that your hypothesis is drenched in WIFOM.

Well, you shouldnt. Firstly, there was no real case for Joubert to be lynched. The scum screwed up big time by bussing him so early on. The only possible good outcome would be that I would get lynched too, but nobody is stupid enough to push a lynch on a confirmed power role, are they?

Oh, wait a minute. You are, arent you?

First I agree that there wasnt a case against Joubert and that we were lucky to get him lynched yesterday. Second, if you read good Im pushing Matt's lynch. But to be honest I feel theres something off in your claim. I dont know what yet. For now, yes we can assume that you're town and we'll definitely know sooner or later, since scum already know that you both have a very powerful role in the game.

In what way do you consider the Judge role to be powerful?
Please explain.
You feel there's something off in my claim...
What exactly? And why, if you have doubts, are you happy to assume i am town 'for the moment'?

FoS: Tajo

You just aren't sure. Thats the point when you probably ask to find out more about their role, to see if your pm can reinforce/disprove their claim.
The list was obviously the only real way i could confirm his role. And it didnt benefit anyone else in any other way, so i figured it had to be good!

Yes right now scum do know how that list thing works. I dont know how much that benefits us or them.

I dont understand what you are saying here. In what way does the list claiming benefit scum?

What part of 'Judge CORRUPTER' are you not understanding here? What, do you think the scum have a Power Role, AND a role to invalidate that Power Role?

I was thinking that maybe theres a Judge scum that makes another list so that we can balance things in case of mass claiming, like now. Thats, actually one of the reasons why I still dont totally believe you BM.
And we dont know what a judge corrupter does, do we?

That's why we are waiting for Nat. But, let me perfectly blunt with you here:
We have a dead, scum, 'Judge Corrupter'. We dont know how it works, but theres a pretty big clue in the name. JUDGE. CORRUPTER. Hmm, i dunno, maybe, just maybe, it CORRUPTS THE JUDGES!?
It seems pretty obvious to me, that the Judge Corrupter is the scums weapon against the Judges. Where it acts as a 3rd Judge, representing the scum, or it distorts the lists made by me and Rishi, i dont know. How many 'Judge Scum' do you think we have? How likely is it that we have as many Judge-Scum as Judge-town? 0.o
And perhaps equally importantly, why am i being scapegoated as the second Judge-Corrupter or w/e, and Rishi is considered 100% clear?

Yup, i'm not liking you atall atm. I think as compromise lynches go, you're one of the better ones.

you never were the 'hot bitch', and you never will be.

I was almost lynched yesterday. And Im a hot bitch in RL. Trust me.
Now, reread Matt and tell me if he doesnt seem to you like the perfect scum, caring about this game when necessary and such. Tell me what he said about Joubert. BTW I also remember a player with the same characterisitics that was lynched yesterday and turned up scum. Please understand that scum obviously isnt going to act scummy. They simply dont have to give a damn about this game and(or jump in nice cases (like mine) .
Tajo.

Until you get a grip on the game, I can support your execution today, although my first choice would still be CS, im not really in a position to make demands.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So, yeah...BM is clear, as far as I'm concerned. This means it is even more important than normal to ensure we get a unanimous vote from the jury. I like a Tajo lynch, myself.

I know that others have expressed interest in a populartajo lynch, but what are your reasons for supporting it?

Largely the fact he thinks that Joubert is a Scum Judge Corrupter, AND BattleMage is a Scum Judge...

Whats wrong with that?

rofl. You dont see that its SLIGHTLY nonsensical to have in the Mafia:

1 x Judge
1 x Judge CORRUPTER

Its like having a Mafia Roleblocker, and a Mafia Role-UnBlocker. It's detrimental to it's own cause.

Ugh, on the one hand, Tajo seems like a great mislynch atm, and its hard to see scum being that dumb and easy to kill. On the other hand, thats much what i said about Joubert, and look how that played out!
I'm happy to see Mr Illogical removed from the game today.

Lets see a couple more votes on there. Maybe leave him at -2, until we've heard from Nat. I dont want to leave anything to chance today.

BM

=======================================

Page 27 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Battle Mage: (0/5)
malthusis: (0/5)
populartajo: (1/5) Matt_S,
SensFan: (1/5) Rishi

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/4, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/4, 0/1)
Matt_S: (0/4, 1/1) populartajo
Natirasha: (0/4, 0/1)
Rishi: (0/4, 0/1)

Not Voting: (6/9) Battle Mage, malthusis, SensFan, ChiefSkye4, Cream147, Natirasha

Deadline for D2: Sunday August 10 at 12:00 pm GMT+10
=======================================

[Battle Mage]

Also, i nearly forgot.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY RISHI!

BM

[Battle Mage]

When were you a big issue yesterday? (I definitly didn't think you were)

In fairness, i'd say Tajo experienced a fair amount of pressure yesterday. Whatever his affiliation, he is certainly a popular target.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I do not think it wise to say more until day 3, but think it through. There are three situations here.
1. I'm scum, who doesn't want to tell you what we lost.
2. I was roleblocked.
3. I'm Natirasha, I'm known for lying and fakeclaimed.

I can, however, give my guess to what his role was. Since it's the judge corruptor, I believe it's one of these two things.
a. He corrupts the results of one or more of the judges, invalidating them with his own.
b. He's a scum judge.

Of the two, the first is better from a flavor perspective, but the second is better from a mechanical perspective.

More tommorow(as in, Tuesday).

thats really NOT helpful. Ok guys, anyone who has played with Natirasha before- have you known her to fakeclaim as town?
If this is the case, you should now be honest. If the Mafia dont have a Roleblocker, and you arent one of them, then they now know you have fakeclaimed. The only group who you are keeping information from is the TOWN.

BM

[Battle Mage]

also

Vote: Chief Skye

we're still waiting on Cream's PBPA.

BM

[Battle Mage]

thats really NOT helpful. Ok guys, anyone who has played with Natirasha before- have you known her to fakeclaim as town?

I was in Space Monkey Mafia with Natirasha and, as town, he did fakeclaim. It was a theme, so he named the role correctly. However, he claimed to have powers, though he was basically a vanilla townie.

Unvote, Vote: Natirasha

Natirasha, if you fakeclaimed, I want you to come clean now. It would be helpful for us to know if there's a

MAFIA

roleblocker in the setup or not.

I'm not quite sure i see the vote there. And the edit in italics is mine.

Nat, the clock is ticking.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok i'm willing to let that go for now. My only doubt is...wtf is a 'Spirit Channeler' doing in a game with a trial theme? 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok i'm willing to let that go for now. My only doubt is...wtf is a 'Spirit Channeler' doing in a game with a trial theme? 0.o

BM

Have you never played a Phoenix Wright game?

a what?

[Battle Mage]

ok i'm willing to let that go for now. My only doubt is...wtf is a 'Spirit Channeler' doing in a game with a trial theme? 0.o

BM

Have you never played a Phoenix Wright game?

a what?

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Take a look at the opening post of the thread.

Clearly as i hadnt heard of it...No.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I looked it up. There is a character named Maya Fey and she can "channel spirits." that doesn't necessarily mean that she can speak to the dead, but it's not a huge stretch.

More here:
http://www.court-records.net/chara-maya.htm

could be a safeclaim?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I looked it up. There is a character named Maya Fey and she can "channel spirits." that doesn't necessarily mean that she can speak to the dead, but it's not a huge stretch.

More here:
http://www.court-records.net/chara-maya.htm

could be a safeclaim?

BM

Virtually anything can be a safe claim.

Ok, i'll rephrase. Makes more sense as a safeclaim?

BM

[Battle Mage]

and Cream, where is your PBPA?

[Battle Mage]

No need for a prod. Im sorry. I just got a job and Im busy as hell. I will have time tomorrow.
In the meanwhile, you can see better cases than mine. I am Godot. I work as a Prosecutor, bringing criminals to justice. I make a preferential list of Defendants for the following day.
Bay.

So you and Edgeworth are similar to the two judges. Of course, there was a judge corruptor. You could easily be a prosecutor corruptor using your fake claim.

Where is your PBPA????????


BM

[Battle Mage]

Wait, better question. Why did you think that vollkan wouldn't put scum as the first defendant if you partially chose the first defendant?

Because I sent a list but Volkan changed it. I assumed Volkan had to mess with my list for some reason. I thought that maybe I had put a scum at the top of my list. Do you all want that I share my list?

yes. Presumably your counter-part remains unclaimed, and can confirm you later using it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

When are we lynching Matt=?

Never, I hope.

qft!

[Battle Mage]

mass claim is pointless today. we could still have a protective role out there.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My ChiefSkye4 PBPA

Post 0: Demonstrates knowledge of Phoenix Wright series...then again, her name alone demonstrates that! Makes some boring crappy statements about how we'll get through this blah blah blah blah.

You don’t find something wrong with the whole ‘this is going to be tough’ attitude? It sounds to me like an exaggerated attempt to empathise with the town. In her own way she says nothing, but in a way that makes her seem like a reassuring townie.

Post 1: Says Mirth is 'prolly not' scum. Says game is tough for town.

Yeh, I think this post is pretty fine.

Post 2: Couple of insignificant opinions on soft-claiming and babygirl claiming. I suppose it's worth noting she thought that babygirl claiming was a good idea...

Yep, again, fine.

Post 3: Says it's too early to vote for anyone

Again, no problems here.

Post 5: Seems to attempt to laugh off Mirth's attack on her. Mind you, I completely agree with her. That first post was just...there's nothing you can read in from that except that she knows the series.

Reading through now, I totally agree with Mirth’s point (as you can see above). CS excuses it by saying that she was just saying the same as everyone else…which is kinda the point…

Post 7: Says that Nat should claim. I agree (and I believe stated this at the time) with this. Says that Theo's looking good for her vote. I suppose this could be seen as getting ready to bandwagon, but staying off so as to avoid the public glare, is non-commital what I'm looking for?...meh, I'd say she meant what she said.

Yeh, im not so worried about encouraging Nat to claim here. I’m looking at her comments regarding Theo. She says she finds him scummy…but doesn’t vote him, until he has a ‘chance to defend his actions’. What the hell? It’s like she’s reading off a script of things that a good townie might do, when in practice, a genuine protown player would never do that. Apparently she does this because Nat does. But seriously, what sort of defence was she expecting??

Post 8: Silly post

This post is intriguing and could be very useful later.

Post 9: Continues theme of silly post. Demonstrates sense of humour...seriously, this is the biggest thing I've seen so far. A non-commital attitude towards Nat's claim, and says she will see how everything plays out. That could be interpreted as scummy I suppose...maybe? I'm just reaching here. I'm looking for something scummy about her play.

Yeh, non-commital about sums it up. Not a major thing though.

You’ve stumbled across a few dodgy posts so far, but you haven’t really got to the crux of the suspicion yet. Keep going, this is quite a useful exercise for us both.

BM

[Battle Mage]

mass claim is pointless today. we could still have a protective role out there.

BM

^erm, i thought this would be enough, but apparently not, so here's a more subtle hint:

MASS-CLAIM TODAY IS A STUPID, RETARDED IDEA!

Happy?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Massclaim is bad idea. End of story. Apollo Justice characters could also easily be in this game. Also, I'm here!

I appreciate your support on the Mass claim issue. But can you please do some more of your assignment now? Or if you need more time, i expect

you

to ask the Mod for an extension.

BM

[Battle Mage]

For this game, I really don't see there being a doc role. It just doesn't really fit the flavor. I can see possibly see a bodyguard in one of the numerous cop characters(Gumshoe being the prime example), which is the same as the doc, so whatever I guess.

that doesnt explain why you want to out an investigative role when we may have NO protective roles!

BM

=======================================

Page 30 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Battle Mage: (0/5)
malthusis: (0/5)
populartajo: (1/5) Matt_S,
SensFan: (0/5)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/4, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/4, 0/1)
Matt_S: (0/4, 1/1) populartajo
Natirasha: (1/4, 0/1) {Rishi}
Rishi: (0/4, 0/1)

Not Voting: (6/9) Battle Mage, malthusis, SensFan, ChiefSkye4, Cream147, Natirasha

Deadline for D2: Sunday August 10 at 12:00 pm GMT+10
=======================================

[Battle Mage]

To recap on the mass claim situation, We have 4 people who support a mass claim (Rishi, Natrirasha, Sensfan, and PopularT). We have 5 against claiming (BM, Matt, Malthusis, Skye, and Cream). Now that I think hard about it, was there a bodyguard in AA that could be a Doc type role?

I appreciate your support on the Mass claim issue. But can you please do some more of your assignment now? Or if you need more time, i expect you to ask the Mod for an extension.

Why are you talking about extensions? We still have 14 days left till deadline.

I feel how Rishi did yesterday. I'll take as much time as i need to get us a good conviction today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

but if hes reading then he can answer here.

I really hope, but strongly doubt that the Mod is that stupid.

[Battle Mage]

I'm not convinced yet about populartajo. I don't feel that inattentiveness is a scumtell. Also, if he really is a prosecutor and the other one is dead, I'm not sure how the defendant gets picked. It's possible that there's a Prosecutor Corrupter out there,

meaning that the scum might get to pick a defendant.

If it comes down to it, then I will jump on a populartajo lynch to avoid a BM lynch (since I feel BM's claim is more credible).

that leads to a whole ton of WIFOM. lol

[Battle Mage]

The other prosecutor should claim.

Umm. The other prosecutor is dead.

Really, if you want to save yourself, you're going to have to figure out who is scummy, make a case and show that you care enough about this game to actually make an effort. Otherwise, my vote stays put.

No. Mirth is dead. She was the other townie prosecutor. Assuming you and BM are telling the truth about the lists and claims then its pretty obvious that we have a prosecutor corruptor since my list didnt work as your lists did. I was at the top and now BM is the defendant.
You can see my list and I already explained my motivations for picking the places. Since BM is the defendant today I can see the prosecutor corrupter puting him at the top of his list.
And I already talked why Matt seems the most obvious choice for scum. SensFan is sicnerely earning more points lately.

actually Tajo is right. Let's see if we have a Prosecutor counter-claim.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Populartajo is making shitloads of sense. By his usual standards.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I doubt it.

Assuming it's like the judges(Which seems to be 2 town, 1 scum), then the other prosecutor is dead, and the only prosecutor not claimed is scum. And he would be stupid to counter-claim, because if we kill populartajo, then it will be revealed he is scum. Ergo, there will most likely be no counter.

Dont be silly. Obviously the scum prosecutor isnt going to counterclaim because all you are saying. Thats a bad play for him. So theres no reason to lynch me becuase Im the town prosecutor.
Thats why Im saying that if theres A TOWN PROSECUTOR then claim and secure my lynch. There arent going to be claims becuase theres no other town prosecutor besides me and Mirth.
This isnt too hard.

And that plan works really well if you know that there is only 1 Town Prosecutor and 1 Scum Corrupter. That way there is no Town Prosecutor to counter you, and you can use that as 'Proof' that you are Town.

how would he know this?

I can see that his list makes no sense whatsoever. But then, if he was lying, surely he'd have come up with something plausible? I'd like to think so anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

what makes you think the prosecutor corrupter has a list?

[Battle Mage]

what makes you think the prosecutor corrupter has a list?

a)Mirth was a town prosecutor. I know Im a town prosecutor. We both make lists according to my PM to choose the defendant.
b)I put myself at the top of my list D2. But Im not the defendant. BM is the defendant.
LOGICAL CONCLUSION. Theres someone else messing with my lists. Since the other prosecutor is dead then theres a prosecutor that put you, BM, at the beginning of his list. Since I find impossible to be three townie prosecutors its extemely likely that we have a prosecutor corrupter that put you at the top og his list.

You haven't really answered my question. What makes you think the prosecutor corrupter uses a LIST as opposed to say, directly choosing 1 person to be defendant unless they are below a certain position on your list, or he must directly target you in order to distort your results, at which time he chooses 1 person to be defendant?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Now just watch Cream and CS fail to turn up and hammer.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Now just watch Cream and CS fail to turn up and hammer.

BM

They have 6 days. We just need to make it very clear that, should either of them fail to appear and vote, they will be held accountable.

Should Cream fail to vote, you and Rishi should both put him in the 8th spot of your lists.
Should CS fail to vote, you and Rishi should both put him in the 8th spot of your lists.
Should Cream and CS fail to vote, you should put Cream in the 8th spot of your list and CM in the 9th spot, and Rishi should put CM in the 8th spot of your list and Cream in the 9th spot.

1. If they fail to vote, BM dies and, presumably, cannot submit a list.
2. Stop trying to direct the judges.

lol qft.

[Battle Mage]

Huh. So, just because we don't agree with you, we should get our priveliges stripped? Hm.

Gimme some time, let me think it over. I'll vote PT if I feel it appropriate.

Assuming that by "you", you mean "the Town", then yes.

We went over this yesterday. Individual Jurors cannot be given the privilege to veto any lynches they disagree with. We need to force them to vote for whoever the majority wants lynched, even if they disagree with the lynch. Heck, I would expect you, as a Juror, to hammer your Mason partner, if the majority of the Town wanted him lynched.

Actually, i disagree on the main point of this post. I think individuals SHOULD have the right to oppose a particular execution. My current issue with CS is that she is NOT OFFERING HER OWN OPINION REGARDING AN ALTERNATIVE.

I've never seen such a blatant attempt at killing time in my life. I've said it before, and i'll say it again. She is scum. Cream on the other hand, is probs town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Cream, the sooner u hammer, the happier u will make me. We can get Skye strung up tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

we're now waiting on Matt right?

BM

[Battle Mage]

still happy with a CS or Tajo lynch. I cant see them both as town, and CS's claim sounds very much like a potential safeclaim/fakeclaim.

BM