Mini 610: Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over!!

[Matt_S]

Hello all. It's a nice feeling replacing into a game without any real reading required.

1. What do you think of this setup?
2. Is this game tough for town?
3. Is Mirth town or scum? Yes, no, I dont know?

1. It's an interesting idea, but the randomness makes it a little tough.
2. That depends on the setup, but it appears so.
3. Attacking someone for sympathizing with the default lynch is unhelpful, but I'm reserving judgment.

[Matt_S]

a) note my actual comment about sympathizing. (You call that an attack? Seriously?)
b) we dont know how the default lynch is determined and cannot be 100% that she will be the lynch because the jury may choose to lynch someone else
c) how do you purpose getting conversation out of enough people to perhaps have a viable lynch for today that isnt the default?

a. I consider a post which asks if someone is scum to be an attack.
b. All I know is that seven specific people will have to agree if they want someone else to die. I think that's a pretty crappy position to be in, and I'd definitely consider that a default lynch. Whether there's a reason she was chosen as the defendant, that's just baseless speculation at this point. There's no reason to believe that she's any less likely to be town than anyone else, so I don't really know where you're going with this.
c. There's plenty of ways to start discussion that don't involve accusing the first person to post in your first post.

You can call it forced all you want, I'm trying to get you off the hook.

[Matt_S]

I'm really not happy with people claiming at this point, especially people who aren't the defendant. I'm not saying I support the defendant claiming, but if anyone would claim unprovoked, it should be babygirl86.

Thats my point. Theo could or couldnt be scum. Cream in the other hand seems to be so sure after you've voted for him. Also I cant compare both of you for two principal reasons : a)first vote on someone is more town than scum b)you've been attacking everything that moves since the beginning of the game. See the difference with Cream?

You seem to be jumping to a big conclusion about Cream there. And I highly disagree with reason A.

[Matt_S]

Ok you're free to disagree but why is Cream so sure about theopor? Any ideas? Why did he jump against him and not against other minor cases?

I didn't see any certainty about theopor. All I saw was certainty that unexplained votes for the defendant were bad.

[Matt_S]

Wow. We lucked out on Nat's role. The speed at which he full-claimed is disconcerting, but I'm thankful for what it was.

Nat, I've got a little request. Please ask Vollkan if you're allowed to quote their PMs. The usual rule is no quoting YOUR PM, and I'd like to see if this is a loophole.

Actually, the rule says "Never quote anything I PM you". So no posting their PMs unless there's a weird exception in the role

[Matt_S]

I agree that the mafia probably have some sort of gimp to match our difficulty of lynching. It could be no night kills, or it could be a small group. However, we won't know until tomorrow.

[Matt_S]

Matt: actually we might not know based on what could interfere with a kill. And maybe this method of voting is handicapping the town because the town might be overpowered? Who knows. Bothers me that he brought it up though. (It seems to me that the defendant thing is just mod induced to ensure this game doesnt drag on to all eternity though)

True, I should have said tomorrow is the earliest we can have any idea. I'm more bothered with the fact that you suspected inside information, but that's just from my personal experience. I've had a mafia traitor and a serial killer accuse me of inside information, compared to just one townie, in a single game.

[Matt_S]

People, I'd like you all to re-read the Mirth-Mal conversation again. Doesn't it just sound of being put-on?

Sorry, I don't see it that way at all.

[Matt_S]

No, I believe that we should take good, hard look at Malthy AFTER a Mirth lynch. I'm near-positive one of those two are scum, so I chose one of them to zero-in on. Mirth is more annoying, so I chose her.

Fixed. And this is a good way for scum to set up a mislynch either today, tomorrow, or both.

[Matt_S]

This whole "put on" thing seems kind of put on. Nobody saw it that way until Natirasha brought it up. It seems to be nothing but a distraction.

[Matt_S]

I find theo's lurking to be disturbing since he wanted to start conversation so badly yet is not saying a thing anymore. And these baseless accusations being flung back and forth are the perfect camouflage for scum trying to hide in the shadows. I don't think it's a coincidence that only half the town is posting during this put on conversation.

[Matt_S]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I just haven't had too much to say. I'm pretty sure that babygirl is innocent, I'm getting real frustrated townie vibes from her posts (and I don't blame her, though she could be more constructive and do a bit of scumhunting). My number one candidate for scum at the moment is mirth, but I don't feel particularly strong about that.

Just to clarify about my unvote popular, if someone is not my number 1 candidate, I prefer to not have my vote on them, unless there is a good reason to having my vote on them as a pose to the scummiest player.

Hmm... Your reason is poor, and popular's reason is poor. Popular is trying to get the pressure off Mirth, which I dislike. Cream is acting noncommittal, which I dislike. I'll

FOS them both

.

[Matt_S]

Also, if you have any decent case against someone then we should push it because for now babygirl is not a decent lycnh.

The fact that you're pushing this alternative using only Cream's unvote, while ignoring babygirl's unvote, is what's poor. What makes Cream a decent lynch and not babygirl?

[Matt_S]

Also, if you have any decent case against someone then we should push it because for now babygirl is not a decent lycnh.

The fact that you're pushing this alternative using only Cream's unvote, while ignoring babygirl's unvote, is what's poor. What makes Cream a decent lynch and not babygirl?

Im assuming volkan didnt put a scum in the first trial.

Trying to outguess the mod? There's no reason to believe the defendant wasn't picked randomly.

[Matt_S]

Gorrad, did you choose BG to be the defendant and if so, why?

What the heck is up with the fishing?

Vote SlySly

.

[Matt_S]

Gorrad, did you choose BG to be the defendant and if so, why?

What the heck is up with the fishing?

Vote SlySly

.

I'm just asking about his inferences. I don't see any reason to suspect that the mod is not in control, even if by a random method, of who is the defendant. Now if it were part of my role PM, I would know otherwise. Gorrad has been insistent on making this possibility clear to the jury. Since he is and has been pushing this point so intensely, I felt the time to ask him about had arrived.

If he says "yes I picked babygirl", what does that get us? Pretty much just a claim. It says nothing about his or babygirl's alignments.

[Matt_S]

If he says "yes I picked babygirl", what does that get us? Pretty much just a claim. It says nothing about his or babygirl's alignments.

I guess you missed the "if so, why?" part of my question.

And what answer do you expect? There's only two possible answers to why anyone would pick a defendant for day 1. It could be arbitrary, or it could be based off inside info. I find it unlikely that it's the latter, and if that's the answer you expect, that's just even more uncool.

[Matt_S]

Zomg, smiley attack! Hello BM.

[Matt_S]

Post 103- I added the 'I'm not for or against' because I don't want her to perceive it as hostile.

Being neutral just to avoid negative attention? That's bad.

Everything else anyone's said is pretty much noise.

[Matt_S]

Everything else anyone's said is pretty much noise.

eh? care to elaborate?

BM

The argument between you and Mirth isn't getting anywhere. Natirasha's claim was nobody's fault except Natirasha's. Parts of the argument aren't even relevant to this game.

[Matt_S]

What do you take to mean by the word 'townie'? What would you respond if i asked you whether you were a 'townie' or not?

It depends on context. I interpret it as a protown person sometimes, but in the context of a roleclaim, townie=vanilla townie. I usually use the former just because there's no easy noun form of "protown person", unlike how scum means "antitown person". Plus that also simplifies things to townies vs scum. If you were to say townie only referred to vanilla townies, then I'd have to ask how scum doesn't solely refer to mafia goons.

[Matt_S]

Ok we know lurking isnt going to help town specially in this game.
We have to do something.
Although my vote doesnt mean anything, Id suggest the jury to vote for Cream that he's far suspicious than babygirl.
Reason : he unvotes Theo with no apparent reason.

ChiefSkye4
Cream147
Gorrad
malthusis
Mirth
SlySly
theopor_COD

Do all the members of the jury here think that Cream is less suspicious than babygirl?

One of the most scummy things I've seen posted in a long while.

Explain why this post is scummy and why it doesnt seem to you like an attempt to stop possible scum in the jurors lurking. Now.

Funny, I don't remember you ever using that reasoning in the past.

And I have no idea how a Condorcet system will help us out.

[Matt_S]

That was the first time that you mentioned scum lurking. You were trying to keep babygirl from being lynched by getting the jury to vote someone else before, yet now you say that you did that to keep scum from lurking on the jury. Surely you see the difference between "don't lurk, lynch someone else" and "I don't want scum jurors lurking." Your motives seem to be changing. So, why do you think asking the jury to vote for someone is the best way to handle lurking? And why is that even excusable when you ignored babygirl's lurking?

[Matt_S]

The logical play for them would be to lurk and comment the less possible.

Oh I WISH things were that simple. Not only does that open you up for a ton of WIFOM, but it also assumes that the lurking scum juror won't be lynched by his peers for lurking. From the beginning, that whole incident was about keeping babygirl from being lynched.

Find another way.

If I'm worried about lurking, I generally use prods. Then they have to lurk in front of everyone.

I didnt ignore it. She is the defendant, duh.

Are you trying to say that it's excusable for the defendant to lurk?

[Matt_S]

Oh right, there was another page. I'm not a juror, but a populartajo or SlySly lynch would be my choice.

[Matt_S]

Ah, right, I forgot all about Joubert. I'd support that lynch as well.

[Matt_S]

No one has told me why am I scum.
I dont see why I am at many tops.

You believe that babygirl/Rishi is town despite no real reason.

My miniscum list
1. SlySly
2. Joubert
3. Populartajo

Going any further would be stretching my limits, since nobody else sticks out so much. So everyone else is a distant fourth pretty much.

[Matt_S]

Proxy your vote to someone, if the mod allows vote proxies.

[Matt_S]

Oh, and I'll be gone for a couple days starting right before the deadline (assuming I can convert timezones properly), but I'm just a lowly nonjuror.

[Matt_S]

Now I have to get out something of my chest. Ive been bothered by Matt posting. I cant quote exactly what makes me feel this way. It probably has to be with the small posting and the subtle attacks he usually makes. I can be wrong but I had to write it.
.
.
.
And Matt votes someone for apparent fishing. I dont see, again, Slysly as scum doing that. Gorrad joins. Fos them both.
.
.
.
CONCLUSION: We should be looking either Matt or Cream and maybe Gorrad or BM.
Possible townies IMO : Natirasha, Mirth, Rishi, Slysly.
Unvote. Vote : Matt

That seems to be the entirety of popular's case against me. You could apply the first post to Joubert, but he doesn't mention that. The second point is that SlySly's fishing wasn't scummy, which I don't see. Or maybe it's just that Gorrad agreed with me. I kind of figured asking if someone made a particular action would be some pretty damn bad fishing.

I also see that BM's not following his own idea. We're running out of time. He also complains about the shortness of some people's lists, despite my experience with similar voting systems telling me that unlisted candidates are considered tied for last. There's no point to the previous sentence except to show my offense to BM's statement.

And I haven't fully read everything yet, but I'm not counterclaiming. Chop chop people.

[Matt_S]

Yay, I guess.

[Matt_S]

I see a few possible suspects at this point. One is populartajo because of the "babygirl is innocent" thing, SlySly/SensFan because of asking Gorrad if he picked the defendant, and Natirasha for the whole "put on" thing between Mirth and Malthusis. I'm leaning SensFan at this moment, but I think the first thing to do is decide if we want BM to claim.

[Matt_S]

Holy crap. I'm so confused.

I assumed at first that it was the Prosecutor who chose the defendants, but I dunno anymore. As for the bailiff, I have a theory, but it's just baseless speculation, so I won't mention it yet.

[Matt_S]

Matt, this may clear things up:

Judge: makes a list of people to be jurors.The highest (average) people on the list get to be jurors. (There are 2 ranks, BM is the Highest Rank, Rishi is the lower one)
Prosecuter: I assume they make a list of players to be the defendent in the same manner as the judge.

Matt, what is your idea on the baliff?

I wonder where the judge corrupter fit into all of this. My theory is that the bailiff was a bodyguard or something.

It's now clear that we definitely need to find a new lynch. First, we hear from Natirasha, then everyone else comes here and chit chats.

[Matt_S]

CS did have a few moments that struck me as odd, such as the "put on" thing again. However, I'd have to say that CS is below my previous suspects. It was just a quick reread of CS, so a good case could change my mind.

[Matt_S]

Will your analysis just be an argument with Cream, or will it actually highlight why CS is scum?

[Matt_S]

BTW Im still thinking Matt is scum. Too much active lurking for my taste but he quickly jumped against me when I was the hot bitch yesterday.

Could you actually point out some explicit reasons I'm scum? Saying that I actively lurked is a nice accusation to throw on someone when they have fewer posts than you. And accusing me of calling you scummy isn't much of a case.

Jumped against Slysly for rolefishing when I can see the reasoning behind that question. Gorrad was almost breadcrumbing his role.

It's still rolefishing. And could you please point out where Gorrad almost breadcrumbed the role of Bailiff. SlySly tried to get more info from Gorrad for no apparent reason. That's scummy. Not to mention that you called Gorrad scummy for the same reason, and we all know how that turned out.

Also, Post 538 is a blatant ignoration of what was going on in town about Joubert at that moment.

This part is what makes me think you haven't even been reading. Post 538 isn't about Joubert. It was about you, and part of it was how you didn't get what was wrong with Joubert. Yet now you talk as if you are an expert in the field of why Joubert was scum.

The only option now is to

Vote populartajo

. I'll go ahead and preempt you by saying that I've been suspicious of you before you were suspicious of me.

[Matt_S]

Could you actually point out some explicit reasons I'm scum? Saying that I actively lurked is a nice accusation to throw on someone when they have fewer posts than you. And accusing me of calling you scummy isn't much of a case.

I already said that the perfect scum would lurk, wouldnt care about this game and let town kill themselves since theres a default lynch. Can you tell me what you said about Joubert yesterday?

Yeah, I said I forgot about him since he had 10 posts at that time in the day. Then I placed him on my suspect list. Now how is that relevant to why I'm scum? And again, please point out times where I actively lurked rather than just accusing me. You say that I lurked, didn't care about this game, and let the town kill themselves. Those are pretty big accusations there.

It's still rolefishing. And could you please point out where Gorrad almost breadcrumbed the role of Bailiff. SlySly tried to get more info from Gorrad for no apparent reason. That's scummy. Not to mention that you called Gorrad scummy for the same reason, and we all know how that turned out.

Matt, that wasnt rolefishing. Gorrad was making too much sense when he explained how the defendant was going to be picked like he knew something else we didnt know. 230 and 232 are nice examples. I share what Mirth thinks in 239. Also, what does SlySly gain as scum with unnecesarry attention?
Jumping against him tells me two things : a)you're scum and found a "perfect" easy target or b)you dont use much logic when thinking. Snce I know you, you already know what option Im finding more probable.

Asking if someone has a particular power is fishing, whether you agree or not, and whether Mirth agrees or not. And if you'll reread 239, even though Mirth didn't call it fishing, she said, "I don't like that Sly just asked that though, either." What does SlySly gain from the attention? Well, if people defend him, he doesn't get any attention. What does town gain from the information he asked for?

This part is what makes me think you haven't even been reading. Post 538 isn't about Joubert. It was about you, and part of it was how you didn't get what was wrong with Joubert. Yet now you talk as if you are an expert in the field of why Joubert was scum.

Of course I reread. My point is that everyone is talking about Joubert, the lynch of the day, and you only mention him in

That seems to be the entirety of popular's case against me. You could apply the first post to Joubert, but he doesn't
mention that.

Did you try to say that I left Joubert out of my analysis for some reason?

You missed the part where I already put Joubert on my scum list, as well as the part where I had just came back from vacation and was responding to an attack against me. And no, I'm not saying that you left Joubert out for a reason. It could be that you did have a reason. But right now I'm calling you a hypocrite.

[Matt_S]

My posts are short and exact? I try not to randomly extend my writing unless I'm doing an English paper. I don't post frequently? I post more than once a day on average, and you'll find it difficult to get me to post more unless you ask questions of me.
32: You call it a subtle attack, I call it trying to get someone not to act crazy.
91: You call it a subtle attack, I call it a dislike of people spontaneously claiming and an obvious attack.
118: Yes, this is obviously me being scum rather than not realizing Gorrad's reason for asking and then feeling like an idiot afterwards.
134: And this is simply commenting on someone else's idea.
137: I don't get why you say that everything I do is a subtle attack. It's obvious to anybody who reads it that it's designed to be an accusation.
163: Yes, this is going against someone who made an arbitrary connection between two people.
168: Yes, go on.
193, 195, 197: Yes yes, I attacked you early on.
238: Finding someone who picks the defendant would be a pretty important thing for scum. SlySly was trying to find out if Gorrad was this person. I can't explain it better than that.
299: Yes. Go on please.
357, 365, 388: Yes, you're an easy target so I must ignore you at all costs.
390: Oh, using bold now? Yes, I picked the people who came to my mind as scum.
392: No, I didn't forget that I'd support a Joubert lynch. I forgot Joubert was even in the game.
427: Yes, I put Joubert on my list. It should have been obvious from his post count why I wouldn't mind him dying.
And yes, I go on vacation to see relatives who I see once a year if I'm lucky, and am gone for three days.
538: Why is everything I do subtle? Me mentioning your lack of bad things to say about Joubert was anything but subtle.
556: You pushed a case against someone else just because you thought babygirl was innocent, with no real reason to think that.
594: Yes, I state that I'm open minded. What is your problem with that?
630: My reason wasn't that you were the only option. My reason was everything I said in that post. But what's the only option to end a post like that? A vote.

[Matt_S]

Yeah, I don't see how you can believe one judge claim and not the other. The name puisne judge implies a judge higher up, and Rishi has confirmed that BM's claim fits what he knows. If you wanted, you could disbelieve both claims. That'd be logically consistent, but probably not wise.

[Matt_S]

Natirasha's new claim is something that's very hard to prove. However, it's something I'm willing to believe for now.

[Matt_S]

ok i'm willing to let that go for now. My only doubt is...wtf is a 'Spirit Channeler' doing in a game with a trial theme? 0.o

BM

Have you never played a Phoenix Wright game?

[Matt_S]

ok i'm willing to let that go for now. My only doubt is...wtf is a 'Spirit Channeler' doing in a game with a trial theme? 0.o

BM

Have you never played a Phoenix Wright game?

a what?

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Take a look at the opening post of the thread.

[Matt_S]

Heck, I would have given that link earlier if I had realized nobody knew anything about the games. I've at least played the Justice For All. And there's also a second judge who appears in the third game, so the two judges thing is believable for that reason. More importantly, this second judge is Canadian in the North American localization(according to the wobsite), and the term Puisne Judge is used in Canada(according to wikipedia). I can't recall the main judge being called anything special, but I think most trials take place in a district court, and district courts use the title Chief Judge(according to wikipedia).

[Matt_S]

Even if I didn't believe Natirasha's claim, I'd still prefer populartajo.

[Matt_S]

When are we lynching Matt=?

Never, I hope.

[Matt_S]

When are we lynching Matt=?

Never, I hope.

What happened? Do you believe my claim?
....
Also 676 feels strange for a player like Matt. Am I right? That "heck, I would have given that link earlier" doesnt sit well.

I can't say I'm convinced by your claim. Could you post your list?

And could you explain your feelings about post 676 rather than giving more vague reasons?

[Matt_S]

Wait, better question. Why did you think that vollkan wouldn't put scum as the first defendant if you partially chose the first defendant?

=======================================

Page 29 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Battle Mage: (0/5)
malthusis: (0/5)
populartajo: (1/5) Matt_S,
SensFan: (0/5)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/4, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/4, 0/1)
Matt_S: (0/4, 1/1) populartajo
Natirasha: (1/4, 0/1) {Rishi}
Rishi: (0/4, 0/1)

Not Voting: (6/9) Battle Mage, malthusis, SensFan, ChiefSkye4, Cream147, Natirasha

Deadline for D2: Sunday August 10 at 12:00 pm GMT+10
=======================================

[Matt_S]

I don't support a mass claim. I think we still have a protective role.

[Matt_S]

I don't support a mass claim. I think we still have a protective role.

Why?

Because.

[Matt_S]

I find it slightly unnerving that my three suspects all support a massclaim. I also find it interesting that three of the four people who support a massclaim have already claimed. I also would like to point out that popular hasn't shared his lists yet. The second sentence is irrelevant, but it's an interesting look on things.

[Matt_S]

My suspects were you, Natirasha, and SensFan. ChiefSky would just be a compromise lynch. I'm curious about something. Why were you in the middle of your list on day 1? It's also kind of odd that BM was so low on your list. From what BM and Rishi talked about, it sounds like the lists worked like a borda count.

My best guess about Gorrad's role is nothing more than speculation. Natirasha, if you don't have anything else planned tonight, could you check out what Gorrad's role was?

[Matt_S]

...

Where's Rishi and Natirasha in your day 2 list?

[Matt_S]

Also Natirasha why did ChiefSky jump one spot in his list? I think sharing this INFO is 100% protown, right? Also, how do you think a spirit channeler fits in all this "law" flavor?

I don't understand this. I don't have a list to share.

Also, way to not understand the source material.

Yeah, this sounds like populartajo hasn't payed very close attention today.

[Matt_S]

I can start a debate here but (assuming Im scum) why shouldnt the town prosecutor countercliam?

Because he could be killed?

[Matt_S]

You've accused me of active lurking, yet other people have fewer posts than me. Why do you suspect me over anyone else?

[Matt_S]

You've accused me of active lurking, yet other people have fewer posts than me. Why do you suspect me over anyone else?

Like who?

Cream, malthusis, Sensfan/SlySly, ChiefSkye?

[Matt_S]

As I said before I dont see Malthusis as scum since Joubert attacked him sincerely D1.

How can you judge whether it was sincere? And Joubert hardly mentions him at all.

Chiefsky is also absolutely townie in my book.

When and how did this happen?

[Matt_S]

There's also the fact that he appears in the middle of his Day 1 list. I asked about this, but my next question of the missing people seems to have distracted him from that.

[Matt_S]

Again you accuse me of lurking. I have done no such thing. However, if my vote really makes you that uncomfortable, then I'll

Unvote

just for you. There are few people I'd be willing to lynch today other than you.

[Matt_S]

The only thing I was saying is that its dumb to lynch me when I am a confirmed role with no counterclaims.

Confirmed? Since when?

We have to lynch Matt. His relation with Joubert is too scummy.

I wonder sometimes where you get your definition of scummy.

[Matt_S]

Why am I scum?

Your insistence that babygirl was town for no good reason, and trying to push the jurors onto Cream for no good reason. And I'd also like to point out that you claimed to believe both Natirasha and Gorrad were scum, yet saw fit to push for Cream's wagon instead.

[Matt_S]

ChiefSkye is probably the only alternative I see right now. If people aren't feeling the popular lynch, I could go with that. And if someone else can think of a good alternative, then I'd consider them as well.

[Matt_S]

Shall I leave the deed a little longer, to give us all a bit more time to talk, yes?

It seems everybody has forgotten my condescending unvote of populartajo.

[Matt_S]

Vote populartajo

. If there's any objections to this lynch, speak up.

[Matt_S]

I've lynched plenty of claimed power roles without counter claims. The point remains, you came up with radical ideas and seemed to believe with great certainty that babygirl was town, so much that you decided to push the Cream wagon, despite having great certainty that Gorrad and Natirasha were scum. And your great certainty about Natirasha being scum somehow vanished because Natirasha claimed. Your defense is that my reasons aren't scum tells. My defense is that your reasons against me aren't scum tells. That's not a very logical defense to use, is it? Your fate rests in Cream's hands. He can either hammer you, or he can switch to ChiefSkye or someone else. I'd happily listen to other cases, but unfortunately there haven't been many. If it really makes you happy, I'll

Unvote, Vote ChiefSkye

right now and check in later in case I need to switch my vote. The effect is the same, but it will at keep you from blaming me for everything.

[Matt_S]

Matt, stop trying to either draw attention away from tajo (if he's Scum), or distancing yourself from the lynch (if he's Town). A minute ago you vote him. He comes up with some bullshit OMGUS attacks and you unvote?

It stops the headaches. That's all I care about at the moment.

[Matt_S]

Just vote him. Now.

Otherwise, I will assume that you are against a tajo lynch.

I'd like to be able to keep up with this game for the remainder of the day without getting headaches, so I'll wait at least an IRL day before deciding. I don't let other people bully me into voting.

And Matt I apreciate what you are doing. I really hope its because you are town with an inexplicable headache. Can you point where I though Nat was scum? I remember I though Gorrad was my second suspect but I dont remember about Nat. I simply pushed Cream's because he was my top suspect.

Natirasha was above babygirl in your day 1 list, so you had to have suspected him at some point on day 1, even if you didn't say it at the time.

=======================================

Page 35 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Battle Mage: (0/5)
malthusis: (0/5)
populartajo: (3/5) Natirasha, Rishi, ChiefSkye4,
SensFan: (0/5)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (1/4, 1/1) populartajo, Matt_S,
Cream147: (0/4, 0/1)
Matt_S: (0/4, 0/1)
Natirasha: (0/4, 0/1)
Rishi: (0/4, 0/1)

Not Voting: (4/9) Battle Mage, malthusis, SensFan, Cream147,

Deadline for D2: Sunday August 10 at 12:00 pm GMT+10
=======================================

[Matt_S]

Just vote him. Now.

Otherwise, I will assume that you are against a tajo lynch.

I'd like to be able to keep up with this game for the remainder of the day without getting headaches, so I'll wait at least an IRL day before deciding. I don't let other people bully me into voting.

And Matt I apreciate what you are doing. I really hope its because you are town with an inexplicable headache. Can you point where I though Nat was scum? I remember I though Gorrad was my second suspect but I dont remember about Nat. I simply pushed Cream's because he was my top suspect.

Natirasha was above babygirl in your day 1 list, so you had to have suspected him at some point on day 1, even if you didn't say it at the time.

No. I sent Vollkan D1's list in night zero before the game even started. I already said that D1 list was random.
You guys arent reading what Im posting, are you?

You said yourself that you thought babygirl was picked as the defendant because the two above her in your list, Gorrad and Natirasha, were scum. This obviously leads to you suspecting Natirasha.

Just vote him. Now.

Otherwise, I will assume that you are against a tajo lynch.

I'd like to be able to keep up with this game for the remainder of the day without getting headaches, so I'll wait at least an IRL day before deciding. I don't let other people bully me into voting.

Pick one. Now.

I support a Tajo lynch.

Vote: Tajo

I do not support a Tajo lynch at this point.

Stop trying to combine the best of both worlds.

That's a false dichotomy. I don't have to be voting populartajo to support lynching him instead of BM, especially when I'd also support a ChiefSkye lynch and also want others to name what they'd support instead of getting straight to the killing.

[Matt_S]

I just reread Matt's post where he changed votes, and wow...talk about diverting the responsibility of the lynch. This line is what I'm talking about:

Your fate rests in Cream's hands.

Yeah, because at the time popular was at L-1, and yours was the only vote that could lynch him. Similarly, his fate now rests in my hands since everyone else is already voting for him. However, it angers me that few people tried to pursue anyone else. I've even tried to give you an out by voting ChiefSkye, but you don't even consider it. We should have done condorcet.

Vote populartajo

.

[Matt_S]

You couldn't even keep track of your own logic.

[Matt_S]

And if you're the vig that killed Mirth, then you're not too good at it . Nothing personal, PT.

He's not the Vig that killed Mirth.

At least, not if my information is correct.

Was that really necessary?

[Matt_S]

I was hoping to get more from populartajo than just a go town post, but I do agree that his reaction makes a ChiefSkye lynch look better.

[Matt_S]

SensFan: Is there a particular reason you won't consider a ChiefSkye lynch today?

ChiefSkye: Claim now if you want. I don't particularly care as long as you don't do it 10 minutes before deadline. I'll probably be here every day.

[Matt_S]

Unvote

. We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Matt_S]

SensFan: Is there a particular reason you won't consider a ChiefSkye lynch today?

Other than the fact I believe Tajo is Scum?

Weren't you the guy who was always saying that jurors have to listen to the town?

[Matt_S]

SensFan: Is there a particular reason you won't consider a ChiefSkye lynch today?

Other than the fact I believe Tajo is Scum?

Weren't you the guy who was always saying that jurors have to listen to the town?

I said I thought they should be forced to, yes. Why?

Because most people here right now appear to think populartajo shouldn't be lynched.

[Matt_S]

My bad, I was thinking you were a juror instead of Natirasha.

Nowhere near the majority have checked in and removed their support from the Tajo wagon.

Let's see, there's me, Rishi, populartajo, and ChiefSkye. I think that 4 out of 9 is close enough to a majority to warrant continuing the day.

[Matt_S]

Double post: And Cream never fully supported the wagon to begin with. That makes 5, which is a majority.

[Matt_S]

My bad, I was thinking you were a juror instead of Natirasha.

Nowhere near the majority have checked in and removed their support from the Tajo wagon.

Let's see, there's me, Rishi, populartajo, and ChiefSkye. I think that 4 out of 9 is close enough to a majority to warrant continuing the day.

I never said we should quickhammer Tajo right now. All I said is that I still fully believe he is Scum.

No, but what you did say is what I quoted, which is that the people against the populartajo wagon wasn't close to a majority, which I clearly refuted.

[Matt_S]

It's time to scrape the bottom of the bucket.

Vote malthusis

. He has made no attempt to scumhunt today, and supports the popular lynch because he doesn't want BM to get lynched. He doesn't even strongly suspect populartajo, and makes no attempt to find someone he can suspect.

And if it gets down to it, I believe populartajo's role would be more useful for the town than ChiefSkye's claimed role, so I'd support the ChiefSkye lynch over the populartajo lynch.

[Matt_S]

Matt - Would you be willing to jump on a CS lynch to prevent a BM lynch? Or is malthusis the only person you're willing to lynch?

I'd definitely lynch CS over BM.

To someone who's played the third game, is there a reason that Franzisca would be a vig?

[Matt_S]

Paraphrasing:

I've made some significant changes to my whip, covering it in poisoned diamond shards so it can deal fatal damage. I only had enough materials to use the whip twice, though, before it becomes a mundane whip again.

That fits with the flavor of the kill, so I'll believe it.

It sounds like this will probably come down to populartajo or ChiefSkye. I'll get on a few hours before the deadline and make sure my vote is where it needs to be.

[Matt_S]

Why Matt, Natirasha and SensFan CANT think Im town. Look for a scum in this group.

Considering I've been pushing two lynches other than your own, that's a big misrepresentation.

It really doesn't sound like any other lynch will happen, considering Cream's absence. I'll hammer after dinner in about 2 hours.

[Matt_S]

Cream, if you have the time for this game then read me and then you'll realize that theres no REASON to think Im scum. Reread and find scum.

An actual defense would do better. You can't even keep up with your own logic. You don't recall ever suspecting Natirasha, but according to you, you believed both Natirasha and Gorrad were scum because they were above babygirl on your day 1 list. There's plenty of reason to like your lynch better than a BM lynch.

Plus, the only person we'd have a chance of lynching other than you would be Natirasha, since he doesn't seem to want to lynch ChiefSkye, one of the only alternatives. You have a few minutes before the hammer.

Unvote

.

[Matt_S]

Cream, if you have the time for this game then read me and then you'll realize that theres no REASON to think Im scum. Reread and find scum.

An actual defense would do better. You can't even keep up with your own logic. You don't recall ever suspecting Natirasha, but according to you, you believed both Natirasha and Gorrad were scum because they were above babygirl on your day 1 list. There's plenty of reason to like your lynch better than a BM lynch.

Plus, the only person we'd have a chance of lynching other than you would be Natirasha, since he doesn't seem to want to lynch ChiefSkye, one of the only alternatives. You have a few minutes before the hammer.

Unvote

.

Im tired of defending myself.
MATT, MY D1 LIST WAS RANDOM. THE GAME HADNT STARTED. ALL THE POSITIONS IN THAT LIST MEAN NOTHING.
The majority of town have decided that my lynch isnt worthy. The only one going against everyone is Natirasha. I have no idea why.

This is a sack of lies. You said yourself that you believed babygirl was chosen as the defendant because the people above her were scum. Guess who was above her? Natirasha and Gorrad. Now, you have no recollection of believing Natirasha was scum.

You have a few minutes before the hammer.

Unvote

.

Did you miss the part where you have no choice but to hammer him?

But I do have a choice of when I hammer him, and I'd rather do it in as epic a manner as possible, so I'm setting it up.

We're in the same situation than yesterday with the only difference that youre lynching a claimed town prosecutor. Ive already said that theres another prosecutor there. IM 100% SURE. Since we have two claimed judges, a vig, a prosecutor and a "defendant doctor" I suggest inmediate masslcaim. I know Matt and Cream are here.

For what purpose? I'll humor you for a while and await your answer.

[Matt_S]

This is a sack of lies. You said yourself that you believed babygirl was chosen as the defendant because the people above her were scum. Guess who was above her? Natirasha and Gorrad. Now, you have no recollection of believing Natirasha was scum.

What? When did I say this? THIS IS A SACK OF LIES.

Really? You had said before that the mod wouldn't put scum as a defendant in the first trial, and explained it with this:

Wait, better question. Why did you think that vollkan wouldn't put scum as the first defendant if you partially chose the first defendant?

Because I sent a list but Volkan changed it. I assumed Volkan had to mess with my list for some reason. I thought that maybe I had put a scum at the top of my list. Do you all want that I share my list?

It sure sounds like you thought Natirasha and Gorrad were scum.

[Matt_S]

The maybe part and the assuming doesn't change the fact that you believed it at one point. You constantly stated that the mod wouldn't place a scum defendant in the first trial, and you explained why you thought that after you claimed. Now again, what good will claiming do today when one of our jurors doesn't appear to be online?

[Matt_S]

The maybe part and the assuming doesn't change the fact that you believed it at one point. You constantly stated that the mod wouldn't place a scum defendant in the first trial, and you explained why you thought that after you claimed. Now again, what good will claiming do today when one of our jurors doesn't appear to be online?

I thought about it at one point but that doesnt mean its the right answer. To be honest we arent totally sure how the list thing works so I cant be 100% sure about it. Its what we call usully an hypothesys.
Now the "I dont think Vollkan placed a scum as a defendant" is another different option.
Theres nothing wrong with claiming at this point since almost everyone has. That way we can a)confirm you are scum or b)confirm you are scum.

And SensFan Im not talking to you.

So you hypothesized that Natirasha and Gorrad were scum. I'd consider that suspecting him. Now if you're going to try and be condescending, at least use proper spelling. Again, what will claiming today do that claiming tomorrow won't do better?

[Matt_S]

Again, what will claiming today do that claiming tomorrow won't do better?

And another question. Do you honestly expect me to lynch BM instead of you?

[Matt_S]

It seems populartajo isn't online anymore.

Vote populartajo

. I think I missed the epic timing though.

[Matt_S]

I'd like Cream to claim now. I'll claim after that.

[Matt_S]

That's exactly what I expected. I'm Ema Skye, the watcher. Night 1, I watched Rishi and saw you target him. This is why I thought there was a protective role yesterday and didn't support a massclaim. Night 2, I watched you in case the scum found out your role, but nobody targeted you. Since Rishi is confirmed, and SensFan is either a vig or the serial killer, this puts the mafia among Natirasha, malthusis, or me. Now it's up to who you guys believe. I'll

Vote malthusis

at this point.

[Matt_S]

Yes, I suppose if you don't believe me, then you could not believe Cream as well.

Unvote, Vote Natirasha

. The choice for today is between me and him, since at least one of us is a liar.

[Matt_S]

>.>

Malthusis, are you not going to comment on the claimed existence of two other investigative roles?

[Matt_S]

Natirasha's obviously mafia pushing for a mislynch. Tracker/SK is the dumbest role I've ever heard, and the potential for 3 kills a night is ridiculous, especially considering that the town can't no lynch. Natirasha and malthusis are almost surely scumpartners. First, I will outline why Natirasha is full of crap.
1. He's pushing a Me/Cream pair, despite validating Cream's role with his "claim". Or he's claiming that the mafia have a roleblocker and for some reason chose to block him.
2. He claims that he didn't kill because people suspected him. That's bull. Offing as many people as fast as possible is how a serial killer wins.
3. Tracker/SK. What the hell?
4. He's obviously trying to defend malthusis' claim by claiming investigation immunity.

Now let's do what SensFan says.

[Matt_S]

I still don't see any reason not to lynch Natirasha. It's basically a me vs. him thing, so it's everyone else's choice. However, Natirasha is claiming that I'm now a mafia watcher, despite saying earlier that I killed Gorrad night 1.

[Matt_S]

Mafia Watcher can't kill?

I never said that. But you do think I'm a mafia watcher, despite only tracking me to Gorrad. So you either think I watched Gorrad despite my supposed scum team killing him, or that I watched and killed him for another dumb reason. You only accuse me of being a mafia watcher so that you can try to accuse me of fake claiming something with a power I can back up. If I had really been a mafia watcher, you would have tracked me to whoever I watched as well as Gorrad.

[Matt_S]

It's simple, really: You can only kill or watch.

K.

Now let's get to your stance on Cream. Do you believe he's a doc or do you believe he's scum?

[Matt_S]

It's simple, really: You can only kill or watch.

K.

Now let's get to your stance on Cream. Do you believe he's a doc or do you believe he's scum?

I am willing to believe he is the doc.

So you think I am alone as scum. Now, why would the town want to lynch me, who you claim is lone scum, over you, who I claim is scum with a living buddy?

=======================================

Page 41 Votecount

Non-Jurors (2)

**Cream147: (0/4)
malthusis: (1/4) SensFan

Jurors (4)

Matt_S: (1/3, 0/1) {Natirasha, }
Rishi: (0/3, 0/1)
SensFan: (0/3, 0/1)
Natirasha: (2/3, 1/1) {Matt_S, Rishi} malthusis

Not Voting: (1/6) Cream147

Deadline for D3: Saturday September 13 at 16:00 GMT+10
=======================================

[Matt_S]

It's simple, really: You can only kill or watch.

K.

Now let's get to your stance on Cream. Do you believe he's a doc or do you believe he's scum?

I am willing to believe he is the doc.

So you think I am alone as scum. Now, why would the town want to lynch me, who you claim is lone scum, over you, who I claim is scum with a living buddy?

You can still have a buddy out there. You think that just because it's possible you and Cream aren't partners, that you can't have one at all? That's one mistep in logic unless I'm missing something here.

Who could it possibly be if it's not Cream? Rishi, the pretty much confirmed judge? SensFan, the vig or the serial killer? Malthusis, your buddy?

[Matt_S]

Yet you believe that there is a cop.

[Matt_S]

No post for nearly 3 days? Is there a reason for this monstrosity? Matt is scum, I don't see why people are letting him get a free ride today! He should've been vigged over ChiefSkye last night, he should have been the defendant today! Natirasha is also scum, but there is no chance that Matt is an SK, whereas the possibility exists with Natirasha.

Is there any real reason you believe I'm scum that I can defend against? And do you really believe we'd have mafia, serial killer, and vig in a game with lynches like this?

(Unvote), Vote: Matt

Why?

SensFan, the vig or the serial killer?

I lol'd that you are suggesting that I might be the SK

to the claimed SK

.

But I know and he knows that he's not the serial killer.

[Matt_S]

Is there any real reason you believe I'm scum that I can defend against? And do you really believe we'd have mafia, serial killer, and vig in a game with lynches like this?

Um...question. I attempted to kill Rishi last night. Who was killed? BM and CS.

Now, CS was killed by Sensfan(Am I right here? You make it sound like that's true, but you've never outright said it).

That leaves one kill left uncounted for. Now, unless you are suggesting that we have busdriver or something, then where does that leave us?

The obvious answer is that you're mafia who's lying your ass off. No kill is unaccounted for.

[Matt_S]

No post for nearly 3 days? Is there a reason for this monstrosity? Matt is scum, I don't see why people are letting him get a free ride today! He should've been vigged over ChiefSkye last night, he should have been the defendant today! Natirasha is also scum, but there is no chance that Matt is an SK, whereas the possibility exists with Natirasha.

Is there any real reason you believe I'm scum that I can defend against? And do you really believe we'd have mafia, serial killer, and vig in a game with lynches like this?

To your first point, your erratic behaviour on the lynch of popular yesterday, trying to distance yourself from that lynch as much as possible tells me that you are scum. You have actively lurked all game, don't deny it, you have. That is, until you yourself were brought under suspicion.

As to your second point, you put forward a good point. Way to bus your scumbuddy.

First of all, very few people seemed to actually like the popular lynch. Most people seemed to support it because they though others supported it. That made me mad. Second of all, no, I haven't actively lurked. How is your activity level any different than mine? And if it isn't any different, how are you not being a hypocrite?

[Matt_S]

I was deathly afraid that I would be killed night 2 before I could confirm Cream. I was praying day 4 that a.) Cream wasn't scum with a special power, and b.) everyone would notice malthusis' lack of a result. However, it wasn't until I read SensFan's post that I recalled he had already claimed an innocent on Cream. I was in a tight situation on day 2. Rishi and BM were pretty much confirmed townies, and I suspected Cream was the doc. I wouldn't want to kill Natirasha because I wanted to see what information he would claim given what we would know the next day. My original plan was to watch a dead guy and see if Natirasha targeted them, but when I asked, I was told I could only watch living people. That left populartajo, malthusis, ChiefSkye, and SensFan. The pick of populartajo turned out to be inconvenient, but the results of people claiming put me in a good situation if I could just survive the night. When I was night killed I was happy because it was my first death as a townie. And it saved me from potentially being mislynched.

It was an overall good game, but not something I'd like all the time.

[Matt_S]

I contend that I wasn't active lurking. I'd say I was on par with most people in this game in terms of content.