Mini 543 - Election Day - Game Over!

[Qman]

/confirmed

My question would be relating to opening the polls: Is that a majority call, or can one person open the polls themselves?

[Qman]

I'm home now, I'll catch up when i wake up tomorrow.


Holidays, fun and hell all in one fun bundle!

[Qman]

On a somewhat quick readthrough, a few things stand out.

Farside and hasdgfas: Tenuous link at best with the immunity trade, worth noting? yes. Worth making a big deal out of? Not currently.
Akonas: Seems really quick to pull the trigger and try to form a bandwagon.

I think for the moment, I'd have to agree that open voting is in our best interest. With closed voting until after the vote, scum can hide or push a vote one way without us really being able to tell (at least on day 1). With open voting you are pretty much locked into a vote unless you really want to stand out for moving your vote during the actual vote. My only real concern with this tactic is the runoff elections if we hit deadline before we all agree.

On immunity: I've come to the conclusion that immunity really isn't worth discussing until we have a good idea who our top lynch candidates are as until then we are really just blowing smoke with it

My 2 ":)

[Qman]

No need to prod me I'll post tonight when i get off work. Woo

[Qman]

I am currently rereading to do a post on my views of each person. it will be up by tommorrow night, though might make it tonight.

[Qman]

Okay, so I've really had a hard time getting into the game, seeing as how most of it had been backwards play. I'm not really comfortable with it, but I think I've managed to get my head wrapped around it.

I do this by in effect ignoring the entire immunity aspect up until it starts to actually matter (ie. Deadline is nigh). Meaningless as it is in a mafia setting, I am sorry I've neglected this game, it's not something I like doing.

Moving on to my views on each person:

opie:
Pushed the mechanics side of the talk early on, and has turned to some mild scumhunting. He isn't appling pressure, more seems to be watching. Hmmm. I find the exchange with Shanba worth noting, just for what it is

Neutral

Shanba (replaces mcpaltp) :
Makes some fairly decent points about opie's play up until post 92, however I'm not really buying an opie as scum case at the moment. I think I understand where Shanba is coming from in game thorey in general. I really don't have a firm read though.

Neutral

hasdgfas:
Likes to cry WIFOM at others. Worse than Holy! (RE: Post 52) In general his posts make me uncomfortable. The question about closed/open voting while legit is one that I don't think a townie would have asked.

Suspicious

Elias_the_thief (replaces Boggzie) :
No real read. Boggzie seemed a little jumpy but... Nothign to really go on. Maybe a very slight scum dip, overall

Neutral

ibaesha:
Nothing really of note. Blah. Meta in other games lends credence to the reason for lurking.

Neutral

Holy:
Likes hamsters! Good! Rubs the Totem of WIFOM! Bad! (This isn't nearly as bad as hasdfgas' response) (RE: Post 51) Does decent scumhunting. I don't like the manner but that might just be personal taste.

Slightly Pro-Town

Rigel: Few posts, really a neutral read. he's lurking but not in a manner that comes off to me as scummy. Hmm. I need to think about this.

Neutral

farside22:
Gettings a strong protown vibe. Asks direct questions, has a good grasp and ability to be direct was

valid

attacks and points. He and the spelling impaired guy (hasdfgas hereafter H-man) have a short talk about H-mans question about open/closed voting. I agree that the question H-man asked was much more pro-scum than pro-town.

Pro-Town

Akonas:
Post 39: Suggests trying to find a way to exploit the mechanic of hidden voting. Self Immunity attempt, which I see as a null tell. Did react a little strongly to farsides critisim. Seems to favor an overreactionary stance. Stated that he thought he and opie looked like a pair, which I didn't see at that point, nor have since. Probably the bigest problem I have at the moment is he's taking shots and the player I currently consider to be the most pro-town.

Suspicious

QuickBen : Suggests not having transparent voting (player run vote count) due to forcing the mafia to spread votes, and preventing unity. Later retracts this. I really can't get a read off it because it struck me as a good idea at the time. He feels slightly good in the posts afterwards.

Slightly Protown

@Farside22: My writeup from a few days ago, I forgot about and didn't do it. mea Culpa.

Town to me:
Farside
Hole
Quickben

That being said

Immunity Farside22

Scummy to me:
Hasdfgas
Akonas

I have one suggestion and one open invitation:

Invitation:
Ask me about this post, if you want me to explain or expand on something I will. It's late and I wanted to get this up before I go to bed so it is a little short. This will also help me stay involved in the game something I to this point haven't been able to do.

Suggestion: With one week left until deadline I'd like to request that people post who they would vote for at deadline as it stands. This will do two things: A.) Put very tangible pressure on people with high vote tallies, and B.) start making it the transparent process that we are looking for. I can track these votes myself and can post a summary. To distingush it from run of the mill bolding, I'd ask that you both bold and put it in italics so it stands out more.

Mine would be for

Hasdfgas

[Qman]

@holy and farside: I really do agree with two suspects, but I didn't want to come off as fishing for people to point the finger at if my main suspect didn't wash.

2-3 suspects also smacks of political primaries and makes me giggle with glee as I'm a political junkie.

I'm not sure I see your point with akonas, but again it could be a play style thing. He's played in a style i tend to not like. I'm willing to give it a closer look.
As far as meta, I don't like meta gaming and in general find it useless on my end. Blame IH for that I guess.

Also in my experience the first person to scream WIFOM is scum more oft than not. Here's looking at you H-cow.

[Qman]

@akonas correction noted, it was more the pairing of

yourself

with someone than who it was with that concerns me. I don't see a link between you and Holy either.

@Elias: As far as Akonas: This more a gut feeling, but again the playstyle can throw me off it has before, that is why I don't like it. He's a pretty good distance behind Hasdfgas for my vote really.
Also Elias, why do you think the case against Hasdfgas is silly? He certainly hasn't acted pro-town.

[Qman]

Obviously I'm fine with my vote for farside22. And I understand the votes for Shanba. But the votes for QuickBen and Qman have me scratching my head.

Holy said my avatar was cute. Duh. (That's really the whole reason as far as I know, since the vote won't change who gets immunity I'm not that worried.)

I'd be okay not lynching cow and lynching Akonas instead as they are my top two. We can always just lynch Hcow tomorrow if it comes to that, he will be my top suspect going into night though.

[Qman]

Will post after the Super Bowl.

*placeholder*

[Qman]

What happened to Qman's promised post, along with Elias and Shanba and Gorgon? Unfortunately, we don't really have anything on ibaesha/Gorgon, as ibaesha posted just about nothing.

Booze (Sunday), Work and Classes (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.)

Reading through at the moment.

[Qman]

Post written as I start from the lynch from yesterday, it might be a bit fractured:

Okay starting with the day start (and a little into the voting)
As much as the case against hasdfgas was a little “loose” it seemed to be the best lynch for the day with the DL coming and we got scum, partly on luck.

I’m a little confused as to why Rigel was targeted as he wasn’t the most pro town appearing player.

On Rigel:
I find only one substantive post where he draws the connection between a prior game and Hasdfgas and Spider Jerusalem. The connection paid off in the Hasdfgas lynch, maybe he got capped for that, as I really don’t see a good reason to kill him in just looking at his posts.

Page 10:
Opie makes a few interesting points here, but I don’t buy all of them. I do agree that farside22 seems to be pro-town, evidenced by my immunity vote for him. Seeing the end results of the day I need to go back and re-evaluate my thoughts on Akonas, prompted by opie and Elias’ posts. The fact that Akonas pushed as hard as he did and as long as he did on a scum doesn’t feel like a buss to me.

Page 11:
I agree with post 250 almost word for word.
@Opie I really don’t buy the farside/hasdfgas connection. I’m not feeling it really though I can see where you are coming from.
@Holy After two nights I’d have to tentatively agree, there is likely only one killing group.
@Farside22 post 271: If the mod randomized it, it is entirely possible that the scum roles are assigned to the same people. Unlikely but possible.
@Quickben I don’t get a big scum vibe off you here, but your…. ignorance, I guess of things directed at you bothers me. Scum does tend to go "What?, who? me?"

Page 12:

Holy, why do we have to ask?

I'm just replying farside's concerns about me, at the same time curious for the different treatments directed to QB and me.

Because you shouldn't have to be asked and every time he comes to say something I have to prod him to say anything more. You've been around and I know you well enough that I shouldn't have to ask you anything. I saw you in another game you usually have something to say so that is why I'm treating you differently then Quick Ben who I've never played with before.

Quote for the F’n win. You shouldn't have to be asked a question to participate. Yes I recognize the hypocrisy lying under this as I’ve done it myself in several games.

I’m really not comfortable with Elias, I hate when people go “HI WIFOM”, even when it is pointing out the fallacy. Beyond that he is pushing my top pro town player in farside. However I don’t really find Elias voting for Hasdfgas that suspicious given the deadline that was upcoming and his previous posts in the days leading to it.

@holy post 293: Interesting thought that came out of reading this post was seeing if I could fit the scum setting themselves up as the top two candidates to be chosen from. I’m not sure I buy that theory but it raised my eyebrows. Was this actually what you were thinking gives a reason Akonas isn’t scum Holy?

@farside: Please clarify what you meant by this Post #297

The case wasn't complete BS and most people felt it wasn't enough to vote against him. I really don't get you defending the reason's when he was scum in the first place.

I don’t really get what you are saying here.

Page 13:

@post 304: Good post.
I’m equally unhappy with Akonas just posting a meaningless “vote” without expanding.

@post 306

You thought the case on hascow was bs, but I don't understand why you thought it was bs.

maybe because it was built mainly on gut and a game mechanic question?

I agree with this assessment of the hasdfgas lynch.

I think you only going against me because someone pointed out a connection of hascow voting and agreeing with me.

I am "going against you" because I believe your posts show a strong connection to a proven scum.

Meh. I'm not fully on board with Elias here, scum could have drawn a connection to a townie for just that reason. I still think faraside22 is protown.


Shortlist in no particular order: Elias, Holy, QB.

[Qman]

shortlist of scum? if so, why am i on it?

Those are the people I need more time to feel out. If I had to choose today I'd choose to vote for someone on that list.


You make some valid points about what has gone on so far. I don't *think* you are scum, but I'm very uncomfortable with your current playstyle and attitude, with with the abrupt refusal to give a more expanded list of what you see in players other than Farside. I don't like anyone who tunnel visions. That

uncomfortable

feeling is why you are on it. I am leaning towards you being a pro-town player gone off the path in your attacks on farside but I'm not sure yet.

[Qman]

@holy post 293: Interesting thought that came out of reading this post was seeing if I could fit the scum setting themselves up as the top two candidates to be chosen from. I’m not sure I buy that theory but it raised my eyebrows. Was this actually what you were thinking gives a reason Akonas isn’t scum Holy?

I don't quite understand what did you mean with the top two candidates theory actually

I wasn't sure if you were floating the idea tht the scum intentionally put themselves in a spot where they were the final two cantidates. No matter whom we lynched in that situation would be scum and help clear the other. I was curious if that was what you were saying or not. From your response, I don't think it was what you meant.

[Qman]

Need replacement: QB.

I am still giving QuickBen a couple more days to post before seeking replacement.

He's been offsight for two weeks, but it's your call

[Qman]

I still see farside as more town than anyone else, so

immunity farside

[Qman]

You know I don't really have alot to say about the elias and farside debate rather than my gut tells me they are both town. It's interesting to watch how other people react to it though, I don't really like the tone of MGM's posts either. It just feels wrong.

I'll post again tommorrow, my laptop (My only computer) took a nose dive last night due to its harddrive. Tomorrow my wife gets back and I can hijack hers instead of posting from work.

[Qman]

Qman, Akonas ... what gives you the impression that Elias and farside both appear town?

I've said from early day 1 amost that farside has seemed town, her poss just have that feel to me. Elias on teh other hand is really hammering after someone and trying to scumhunt. Even though I think his target is town I view his hunt for scum as a pro town act. In the end they are both gut calls, but I'm about as sure as I can be that farside is town, and I like how elias is scumhunting, regardless of the target, he's putting effort into it. That said even thier interactions against each other haven't tripped any real scum warnings for me, normally in a discussion of the type they had, someone trips up. I didn't see anything that indicated scum to me.

[Qman]

In general I really dislike it when people can't reread a game, It's a cheap out and something I feel is done by people with something to hide. Very much not happy with Shanba at the moment.

Scum Shortlist:
MGM (Really, quickben, but what can ya do)
Shanba

[Qman]

In general I really dislike it when people can't reread a game, It's a cheap out and something I feel is done by people with something to hide. Very much not happy with Shanba at the moment.

Scum Shortlist:
MGM (Really, quickben, but what can ya do)
Shanba

So, I'm scum because I don't want to reread? What about Akonas, who recently stated he couldn't be bothered to read? What about MGM? Also, does the fact that I've decided to contribute anyway in no way influence this? I want the answers to these questions so I understand your thought process before I rip into this, because I see so many holes here I keeping thinking of cheese.

Scum? Maybe, I've seen it used a feeling out process. Suspicious? Maybe not, but it is worth noting. Annoying as hell? You are god damned right.

You've been more vocal is saying "I'm trying to reread but i just can't finish it. Tell me what I need to know" This is an attitude that I have a problem with across the board. It's not just you. Your statements stood out to me more than the others. I understand where you are coming rom, I've got a game right now I just am sturggling to get involved in. It happens to me to so I'm probably being a bit of a hypocrite, but it's one of my pet peeves, along the lines of people going "But I'll town because I say so." Just irks me pretty bad. I appreciate that you've started to contribute, or at the least want to. I also understand that your playstyle requires someone to build your thoughts around so if you choose me for that well... I can't stop ya.

About Akonas, I must have missed that post as I don't recall seeing that(Yes I notice the minefield I'm laying for myself here by saying that but I can't help it), but if that's true he'd slide up into my list as well as he was there yesterday as well.

I don't know why Farside put me down voting two people (??) and I'm far from really wanting to string you up, but with a deadline coming I feel given the game system, I should list 2-3 people I'm considering.

[Qman]

Can anyone who is up to speed on the game thrawl through Spider Jerusalem's games to see who he played with in the past? Early on day one someone made a comment about SJ's death and I'm interested in finding out who exactly they tried to implicate.

I've gone over hasdgfas's posts to see which connections I can draw between him and remaining living players. I'm going to assume that scumbags tend not to lynch their buddies when it's not necessary and, of course, that they'll try to distance themselves from each other. Also, some scum don't talk about their buddies at all to avoid being linked to each other.

Not linked:

opie:

hascum agreed with opie and even considered giving him immunity. No disagreements or distancing.

farside22:

hascum agreed with farside multiple times. no scum connections to be found.

Akonas:

not linked at all. If they were buddies, killing off akonas would be totally pointless.
Gorgon (replaces ibaesha)

Unsure:

Shanba (replaces mcpaltp):

asked for replacement, said nothing else. neutral.

Mgm (replaces QuickBen):

I know I'm innocent, but for completeness sake, I'll add myself to this list. One single comment Quickben. Negative, but not enough to make a case.

Elias_the_thief (replaces Boggzie)

Holy

No comments at all:

Qman:

per the avoiding buddies theory above, this one is interesting to note. No comments at all about Qman by hascum.

Coupled with what I've read so far I think Holy and Qman are possible buddies for hasdfas aka cow.

So let me get this right, you are saying I'm scum because... I'm not linked with hascow because he didn't say anything to me? He didn't say anything of note to Gorgon (Ibeasha), or Elias (Boggzie) either why are they not on that same list, or even under the same catagory as each other?


Color me confused.

[Qman]

I don't really buy the case on Opie myself, I've been keeping an eye open in his direction but... I dunno, the *feel* is a little off. I'll keep looking - but I'm still more leaning to MGM.

[Qman]

I'm rereading to decide between MGM and Opie, figured I'd post that before the deadline hits and the thread locks. I want to look closer at what farside is saying about opie before i decide and that'll take a fresh look at the whole of the game

[Qman]

LOL! XD

Allright, I don't need a confession, I'm pretty sure Mgm is scum.

Open Polls

Obviously, yesterday lynch tendency was on Mgm or Opie, and last night my Vote was bought by the Politician, which I believe that a Politician means scum.

We are now 5 townies VS 2 scum, so I need all the townies to co-operate because now I know that the scum can buy a vote. And if anyone thinks that a vote bought to take down Opie and saved Mgm didn't means Mgm is scum, tell me right now of why.

Yes, I noticed that although my vote not bought by the politician, Opie still lynched with 1 vote difference, but it didn't change the fact of yesterday tendency and our clueless result might be.

I"m virtually certain that MGM is town now that Akonas turned up cop. I suspect his N0 investigation was Quickben, as that was his first immunity vote (after the joke immunity). I read that immunity as a breadcrumb. This is just my quick answer to Holy's post and looking at Akonas' early posts in each day. I'm going to look at all of his posts here shortly for a more complete read.

I'm really not comfortable with your desire to quickynch someone the cop may have breadcrumbed as innocent, and would vote for you right now because of it. That said your claim of someone that can buy votes is really interesting. Did anyone have this happen to them in Day 1's vote?

[Qman]

[quote="farside22]
I remember seeing him give immunity to QB day one did you see if he ever suspected MGM. I do remember him questioning Holy and seemed to imply that MGM wasn't the play in a sly way when talking with Shanba.[/quote]

He kept asking MGM what MGM thought.... I'd like to think that implies trust in MGM, via an investigation. Again, I'm pretty sure MGM is cop cleared at this point.

I'm not sure what his N1 investigation was as his first post naming names says:

2 people brought up the post you did where you put me and hascow together as partners. Have you changed your mind in regards to that? Do you still feel it is a pattern you saw that others are bringing up?

I'm not particularly suspicious of you at the moment, no. I think you've been acting fairly townlike.

At first I thought it an odd thing for the Mod to put two people as scum in a game that was scum

I'm sorry? I don't quite understand.

Hrm. After rereading, I really dont see why anyone would want Rigel dead. For one, I'm fairly certain now that Akonas is not scum, and that was who Rigel was after in his few posts. If anything, scum would want him around to puch the Akonas wagon.

I agree; on the other hand, they may be killing him to make me seem like scum getting him off me. Either way, I think it was stupid; I was suspicious of Rigel meself.

Holy's last few posts bother me. She's not really saying much; I'd like to see longer posts with more commentary. More substance. Same goes for QuickBen and anyone else who isn't posting; do a reread. What do you think of the current accusations?

So in it he says both he says farside is "acting fairly townlike", and was suspicious of Rigel.

I don't know which one he checked out, but I'd learn towards a Rigel investigation from the wording in the post.

[Qman]

Damn broken tags

[Qman]

Gorgon - is your opie vote only a lurker vote? If not, what are your other reasons?

A belated reply to this ...

My vote was mainly a lurker vote, but also for pressure/reaction testing. I didn't particularily like opie's reaction, which is why I ended up voting for him during the polls. I must admit that it was a half-hearted vote, though. I found day 2 confusing, and had a difficult time of sorting things out. Hopefully I'll do better today.

Obviously, yesterday lynch tendency was on Mgm or Opie, and last night my Vote was bought by the Politician, which I believe that a Politician means scum.

We are now 5 townies VS 2 scum, so I need all the townies to co-operate because now I know that the scum can buy a vote. And if anyone thinks that a vote bought to take down Opie and saved Mgm didn't means Mgm is scum, tell me right now of why.

Now this is interesting. A number of thoughts arise.

1) Why did this 'politician' not buy votes on the previous nights? Because he most likely didn't, since we probably would have heard about it.

2) Remember that we only have Holy's word for the existence of this politician, especially if no one else can testify to having their votes bought. This could be a ploy by Holy to get Mgm lynched. Her eagerness to open the polls is suspicious in this regard.

3) This role, if it exists, doesn't look very protown, so it's not that unreasonable to assume it's scummy.

My thoughts on your points:

1.) We don't know he didn't buy a vote D1, he could have bought a vote and put it where the original voter used it. Just something to keep in mind before we run up Holy over the claim itself.

2.) Agreed

3.) It could be either pro-town or anti-town depending on how it's used. I'm thinking a pro town mayor type role that gets two votes but takes one from someone else. I agree that the role is more likely to be anti-town than pro town though.

[Qman]

He voted for holy and FOS holy, but did try I notice to get QB to talk more. Here is what Akonas said to Gorgon in response to Gorgon's findings.

Gorgon: How about Holy? I think she's doing some similar lurky things; what do you think?

I don't know what you are getting at here, are you trying to say Akonas investigated Holy? I don't think he did, but if you do please elaborate on why you have reason to think so.

[Qman]

Okay so I've done a bit of weighing in. I'd like to see more people weigh in, instead of us all staring down yet ANOTHER deadline and scrambling for a lynch.

Come on people, post, talk!

[Qman]

I know I'm going to hear something on this, but my two cents on the possible vote mover.
If one exsisted I would ask why they didn't (if it was a scum role) use it day one vote to possible cause a tie or help hascow out? Not everyone seemed certain about hascow and if they thought he was in trouble wouldn't scum have moved someone's vote to someone else to help him out?
I'm still suspicious of Holy, but most of it comes from Arkonas comments. Even though I don't believe he had a guilty on her I think he was highly suspicious of her.

I'd go so far to say (and have) that Akonas investigated 2 of the following three: Rigel, Farside, and Quickben.

I'd put the odds of a Quickben Night 0 investigation at 99.99%, with Rigel about 60% and farside around 40% for Night 1.

The point here is: I'm pretty sure the following list wasn't investigated:

Shanba
Qman
Gorgon
Elias
Holy

Now, this really might just be stating the obvious, but unless someone is seeing something I'm missing, *I* feel relatively safe with my belief that Akonas was suspicious of Holy but that it doesn't do squat for us beyond that - as there isn't anything leading me to think that's due to an investigation.

I'm not saying that means she isn't scum, but Akonas being the cop shouldn't make his suspicion of someone carry more weight if there isn't a breadcrumb to back it up, and I don't see one.

[Qman]

Just to bump this and make my thoughts clearwhere I'm standing suspect wise

Possible Scum
Holy

Midrange in decending order
Farside
Elias
Gorgon
Shanba

Town
Mgm

I'd be willing to lynch holy or farside at this time, though a Holy lynch is much prefered.

Since I know I'll be asked, the reason I list farside second is I feel she engineered both lynches and I think we'd gain some valueable information out of knowing her alignment. That said, it isn't my prefered lynch nor something I'm really going to push for at the moment.

[Qman]

[quote="farside22]

How does my lynch gain you valueable information based on my alignment? What exactly does it tell you except my alignment? Does it tell you who is scum since I'm not? I'm just confused by your logic.[/quote]

*Stews a moment*
Okay Farside, seriously um... saying you aren't scum really doesn't do a damn thing. Scum are going to say they aren't scum. FEH. Touching on a pet peeve of mine.

Realize while YOU may know your alignment, the rest of the town doesn't.

If you are scum you bussed H-cow on a flimsy arguement and we can go back and look at your interactions with others assuming there are more than 2 mafia if needed. Also the speed and manner of the opie lynch you engineered would have more relevance as to the reasons behind your push. This applies to town or scum.

Please do note that I said it wasn't my prefered course of action. Id rather you stay alive. If we end up lynching for informational purposes, I believe yours would be the best

for that purpose

. I also understand that we might not be in a situation where we can afford informational lynches which is the main reason I don't really want you lynched.

People have wanted top twos all game long, so i gave my order of preference. However you haven't got a lock on the #2 slot yet.

[Qman]

Go us for broken tags!

I now it's a bad situation for you, and yes that particular fight is one that is nigh unwinable. To clarify, my problem is your statement "since I'm not (scum). Offhand references to being town are silly, and I generally ignore it. If anything it can work against you with me. Saying flat out "I'm a vanilla townie" is different and doesn't bother me near as much as the offhand references do.

[Qman]

Go us for broken tags!

I now it's a bad situation for you, and yes that particular fight is one that is nigh unwinable. To clarify, my problem is your statement "since I'm not (scum). Offhand references to being town are silly, and I generally ignore it. If anything it can work against you with me. Saying flat out "I'm a vanilla townie" is different and doesn't bother me near as much as the offhand references do.

Go broken tags on us.
Seriously can I just say I got slammed in two different games for claiming vanilla townie and it just got fustrating.
Back on subject I know my pushing the opie wagon was one thing, but I don't believe I really pushed the hascow wagon. It was one of those things I just noticed about him. Opie I pushed becuase I found his comments from day one to day 2 inconsistant. I felt really sure when he didn't really answer things being stated even more telling.
I'm not sure about Holy's comments and I'm still waiting on Gorgon. I just found your list very opposite in terms of my suspect and yours. Why is Elias behind me on your list. Why is your list in the order it is in?

As for my list, I assume you aren't asking why Holy or MGM are where they are so lets look at what I have.

Farside - Informational reasons as stated.
Elias - A close run between Elias and Gorgon for "middle of the middle" This also relates to you, as elias was hammering at you and knowing your alignment would affect my thoughts on him.
Gorgon - See above, really no major difference between the two, some small things but... *shrug*
Shanba - Of these four I'm pretty sure Shanba is town, he's seriously got a pro town feel to him both from past days and from his posts today on the vote stealing topic, and is unlikely to earn my vote today.

You, Elias, and Gorgon are this little pack of people with slight differences overall that I could go either way on. Of the three I think lynching you would give the most information to the town. I could see myself changing one off the other two to my top spot, but at the rate Holy is staying on my scum-o-dar, I'm not all to worried about a second suspect right now.

[Qman]

Easter weekend over, pretty much just got home, catching up now.

[Qman]

As for my list, I assume you aren't asking why Holy or MGM are where they are so lets look at what I have.

Farside - Informational reasons as stated.
Elias - A close run between Elias and Gorgon for "middle of the middle" This also relates to you, as elias was hammering at you and knowing your alignment would affect my thoughts on him.
Gorgon - See above, really no major difference between the two, some small things but... *shrug*
Shanba - Of these four I'm pretty sure Shanba is town, he's seriously got a pro town feel to him both from past days and from his posts today on the vote stealing topic, and is unlikely to earn my vote today.

I'm sorry but yesterday you felt this way.

You, Elias, and Gorgon are this little pack of people with slight differences overall that I could go either way on. Of the three I think lynching you would give the most information to the town. I could see myself changing one off the other two to my top spot, but at the rate Holy is staying on my scum-o-dar, I'm not all to worried about a second suspect right now.

Okay since the second part of the above was the second part of the post that the first part came from, i assume that's a formatting error. If not, let me know.

Qman, Akonas ... what gives you the impression that Elias and farside both appear town?

I've said from early day 1 almost that farside has seemed town, her post just have that feel to me. Elias on the other hand is really hammering after someone and trying to scumhunt. Even though I think his target is town I view his hunt for scum as a pro town act. In the end they are both gut calls, but I'm about as sure as I can be that farside is town, and I like how elias is scumhunting, regardless of the target, he's putting effort into it. That said even thier interactions against each other haven't tripped any real scum warnings for me, normally in a discussion of the type they had, someone trips up. I didn't see anything that indicated scum to me.

Now what you seem to be saying my alignment leads you to believe Elias is scum for attacking me. Does those who are not scum hunting are trying to find scum look scummie at all. I find it odd that you have them at the bottom of the list of people of potentional scum.[/quote]


This post was before you got the Opie mislynch rolling, and Akonas turning up cop made me reassess alot of the game, remember how I voted Day 2 for the now cop confimred townie? hmmm? If you ask me having your vote on a cop confirmed townie requires a reassessment after the fact.

Look --- Holy is at the top of my list for her start to today, then there is the 3 pack of you gorgon and elias, MGM is confirmed town, and I storngly suspect Shanba is town as well. Your orchestraing a mislynch out of the blue at the end of day 2 really doesn't sit well with me and now you aren't pure and clean anymore. You have pretty much pushed both lynches, (At least I remember you as the driving force in the H-cow lynch, if anyone else doesn't correct me) and I never really like one person being able to do that, the day 1 lynch could have been an opportune bus of a partner with no clear suspects that day. I know I'd learn alot from your alignment, I suspect others would as well.

[Qman]

Finally I got a chance to read.
Many weird grammar on my posts :p

@Qman: so, what is this 'more than a slight' difference you found that you cannot agree on me?

The way you opened day 3 really bothers me, you clearly didn't look to see if the cop breadcrumbed anyone and made what you must have known would be a futile move to push an MGM lynch, a confirmed townie. I'm not sure I understand why you did that and for now, you are at the top mainly for that.

[Qman]

ALso on Holy, her posts #511, and 525 are so riddled with wrong.


Holy using to much WIFOM does two major things A.) Makes what you say look uncredibile and B.) Is generally seen as a scummy thing when overused.

All townies will have small elements of WIFOM in thier arguements, yes. The keyword there is SMALL. Yours have huge amounts, and townies using to much WIFOM generally ends up with the townie swinging from a noose.

[Qman]

OK, for starters, why aren't we pseudovoting?

Players post

Pseudovote: Name

and we do the votecounts ourselves.

Once we have a lynch majority, all town players commit to voting for the vote leader.

This would allow us to play, effectively, normally, and analyse players' play.

Immunity: MGM

Also, I do feel farside said some rather scummy things in the dialogue with my predecessor (who, fortunately, seems to have played a fairly good pro-town game). However, my current top suspect would be Qman. No real effort ever to push the game in a given direction, just pops up occasionally with his list of all the players (which I maintain is a scummy device) to make it look like he's contributing.

We have been psudovoting, pretty much. At least we were Day 1 and most of Day 2.... today... not so much. Agreed it would be a good idea.

On your immunity vote... why MGM? I know this might seem like a stupid question but I think MGM is the last person we should immunity.

Anyone voting for MGM at deadline is either an idiot or scum, and since the game isn't over the scum can't mislynch him alone. Giving him immunity seems a tad redundant at this point. Plus, from Akonas' death we already know that immunity doesn't carry over into the night like a doc protection, because Akonas just ended up dying night 2.

That said Immunity: Shanba.

At at your suspicion of me... okay, fine by me. It's bullshit to say I've only popped up with lists and you know it, but everyone needs a top suspect.

[Qman]

OK, for starters, why aren't we pseudovoting?

Players post

Pseudovote: Name

and we do the votecounts ourselves.

Once we have a lynch majority, all town players commit to voting for the vote leader.

This would allow us to play, effectively, normally, and analyse players' play.

Immunity: MGM

Also, I do feel farside said some rather scummy things in the dialogue with my predecessor (who, fortunately, seems to have played a fairly good pro-town game). However, my current top suspect would be Qman. No real effort ever to push the game in a given direction, just pops up occasionally with his list of all the players (which I maintain is a scummy device) to make it look like he's contributing.

I felt Elias and I were just arguing based on hascow. I liked Elias after everything was said and done. I admittedly made a case against Opie and unfortunetly it turned out against me. I really thought I had something on him.
As for votes we did that and then people started flaking off. Can I ask a question because it really doesn't make sense to me and I want someone elses imput on the subject. Does Qman's comments about voting against those to find out alignment make sense? I mean to me it sounded like he didn't think Elias or I was scum one day and now has us as #2 and #3 as possible suspects. Saying one alignment would say what others may be. Sounds like he is posting an order on who to vote out, but doesn't say anything about the non posters?
Plus second question is what are your thoughts on Gorgon and Shanba who have been less then ideal in scum hunting?

I second the immunity

Immunity: MGM

If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside I can change the catagory you are in to a randomized list of neutrals, but worth watching.

Informational lynches can be very helpful in some situations. Not in all, but some.

The two people I won't vote for today are Shanba and MGM. Accept it. Be one with it. I have me reasons and I'm sticking to them. Everyone else in on the table.

[Qman]

Damnitall

Immunity Shanba

[Qman]

OK, for starters, why aren't we pseudovoting?

Players post

Pseudovote: Name

and we do the votecounts ourselves.

Once we have a lynch majority, all town players commit to voting for the vote leader.

As holy noted (+1 alignment) this idea stinks. I'm not going to go with a majority bandwagon if I don't agree with it. Playing normally also means voting for whom you want to vote for and seeing where peoples votes land at the end of the day matters quite a bit to me, even if it isn't on the lynchee. I'd rather not force peope to pull thier votes in the manner you seem to be suggesting.

[Qman]

@Fonz to clarify, how are 4 lists out of 36ish posts before today a lot of lists? that's 1 in 9 posts having then and the only one that could be called a pure list post was the first one, which was a catchup post since I'd neglected the game.

Before you get nit pickky I'm not counting the posts when I re-list a list because someone asked me about it, counting those as list lurking is retarded.

[Qman]

I'm voting for Immunity for MGM because right now I just don't trust anyone in this game. I don't think it is dumb to vote this way if I don't really trust anyone else to give immunity to.

I find that to be a prefectly reasonable argument.

I do think MGM is safe from a lynch today, so I don't see the value in making him ... safer? from it unless I find no one else I consider town.

[Qman]

The way you opened day 3 really bothers me, you clearly didn't look to see if the cop breadcrumbed anyone and made what you must have known would be a futile move to push an

MGM lynch, a confirmed townie

. I'm not sure I understand why you did that and for now, you are at the top mainly for that.

Things are looking up. It's quite likely Akonas investigated me, but let's not call me confirmed just yet.

Well that's true, you could be a godfather/role thats guilty but investigates innocent, nor can we catagorically prove Akonas investigated you ...but I'm not willing to go after your neck today.

[Qman]

Well, obviously not every post you've made has been a list. But I've very much gotten the impression you're trying to blend into the background here and not draw too much attention to yourself. Who's got reason to do that? Hmmm.

Fair enough.

[Qman]

What exactly did you mean with this:

"and townies using to much WIFOM generally ends up with the townie swinging from a noose"

, btw? That I'm looking like a townie which lead my own lynch, or other townie lynch? '~'
You said I might be scum, and now I'm a WIFOMer townie? Just confess there! :p


I'll continue tomorrow morning, I need sleep now >.>

I didn't say were scum or a townie using WIFOM, i was making the point that IF YOU ARE TOWN, and you end up being lynched, it will be because of the excessive amount of WIFOM you've been using. No more, no less.

If you want me to tell you were I stand on you, yes I think you are scum.

[Qman]

I didn't say were scum or a townie using WIFOM, i was making the point that IF YOU ARE TOWN, and you end up being lynched, it will be because of the

excessive amount of WIFOM you've been using. No more, no less.

Gah! POINT IT! Which is it that lead you to think it is WIFOM, explain your thinking/reason, if not you're just ending the discussion there.

As soon as I have the time to sift through the game I will, I dont right now (I work 12 hour days on the weekends, it'll probably have to wait till monday)

[Qman]

On your immunity vote... why MGM? I know this might seem like a stupid question but I think MGM is the last person we should immunity.

Anyone voting for MGM at deadline is either an idiot or scum, and since the game isn't over the scum can't mislynch him alone. Giving him immunity seems a tad redundant at this point. Plus, from Akonas' death we already know that immunity doesn't carry over into the night like a doc protection, because Akonas just ended up dying night 2.

That said Immunity: Shanba.

For the record, I didn't say voting MGM immunity was stupid/scummy/idiotic, i said anyone voting MGM for lynch was idiotic/stupid/scummy.

[Qman]

At the start of the game there was the whole discussion that we should wait to give immunity to whichever person was least scummy.

Granted, you don't need to save me from a lynch today, but if there is a tie I'll be giving the deciding vote. I think that makes it a good move, rather than a bad one.

I agree with the basic point you have, but I don't think there is a snowballs chance of you getting lynched, so I'd rather the other person I think is town not get lynched as well. I don't mind if you get the immunity... I just don't see the point.

[Qman]

At the start of the game there was the whole discussion that we should wait to give immunity to whichever person was least scummy.

Granted, you don't need to save me from a lynch today, but if there is a tie I'll be giving the deciding vote. I think that makes it a good move, rather than a bad one.

I agree with the basic point you have, but I don't think there is a snowballs chance of you getting lynched, so I'd rather the other person I think is town not get lynched as well. I don't mind if you get the immunity... I just don't see the point.

The problem with this, of course, is that if there's a real danger of that player being lynched, that means there's several players who will disagree with you vehemently on this.

The big word there is "if" in the statement "if there's a real danger".

My comments
1.) I can't really see any danger of MGM being lynched. I do understand what you are saying here though... but getting 4 (or three, with the vote swapper mobing a vote) people to vote for the likely cop innnocent investigation just isn't going to happen in my opinion.

2.) If it there is any realistic chance that MGM is going to be lynched, I'll switch my immunity vote to him to ensure he can't be lynched. I don't really see this as a problem right now though.

[Qman]

I've had very limited time on site as of late, I'm working to catch up now. Making my post on Holy's WIFOM will require a re-read. It's still being worked on.

[Qman]

So two things.

1.) I'll make my promised post tomorrow
2.) I'd like to formally request a one week extension on the election day, so skruffs can catch up. This would mean pushing it back to off all days, tax day, I think.

[Qman]

So two things.

1.) I'll make my promised post tomorrow
2.) I'd like to formally request a one week extension on the election day, so skruffs can catch up. This would mean pushing it back to off all days, tax day, I think.

I already extended Election Day one week. Did you mean another week?

whoops, hadn't noticed.

[Qman]

OK.

Holy's top suspect is shanba.

Qman is most certain Shanba is town out of pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Mgm (who needs prodding btw).

Would either care to explain?

Okay for this one I can't point to any one or two posts by Shanba. I think he's been very consistant and level in his arguments and hasn't really pinged much for me. He was straight-forward and explained why the double voter would most likely be town when Holy was saying it was a scum role. He's put pro-town information out there, and has challenged confusing or misleading statements/

All in all he hasn't felt forced to me, and I just get a good pro-town vibe from him. I had a problem with his attitude early Day 2, but that was more a personal dislke for his play than anything else. He's also be pretty good at poking holes in everyones arguments, something I tend to believe is more protown then scummy; as scum you want people confused or playing on false logic.

[Qman]

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Sure they would, for that exact reason. WIFOM

@Holy:

How would it be pro-town to vote for yourself for immunity?

A townie knew that him/herself is innocents but didn't have insight of his/her other innocents ally, we didn't know who to trust but ourselves of course. I didn't say it was a pro-town move, but he might be just didn't trust anybody at all for now (yes, I doubt scum would do that as the first, but after this whole discussion maybe they might do that someday), that's it.

Scum would do the same thing.

Yesterday, near deadline, around page 9 and 10, I found the wagon was between hasdgfas and Akonas, the possibility of Akonas and hasdgfas lynch was somewhat 50-50 on the air. But with hasdgfas himself (that turned out indeed was the mafia) supporting the Akonas lynch and then with his vote history on Akonas, I don't think that Akonas is the mafia because the high probability that Akonas's the one who might be lynched with hasdgfas' vote-to-lynch effort contribution.

Distancing? I understand we now know Akonas was a cop but at the time this was WIFOM.


Noticing on a re-read Holy makes a lot if “I suspect this person, but I’m not sure. I’m might change my mind/be convinced otherwise posts.” A lot of waffling and willingness to listen, but she doesn’t really stand firm on her own cases either.

Hm, quite interesting case from farside there. If Opie couldn't answer satisfyingly, I might end-up with voting him today. Farside's right, Opie seems like just following people along so far. With this, if Opie turned out scum, maybe I'm wrong about Shanba, I guess.

Waffle more. More than anything your language use bothers me up to now, you use a lot of fence riding phrases.

Then she comes out of the gate with the Open Polls because of a vote move, reasoning it must be MGM, because her vote was moved off him.

LOL! XD

Allright, I don't need a confession, I'm pretty sure Mgm is scum.

Open Polls

Obviously, yesterday lynch tendency was on Mgm or Opie, and last night my Vote was bought by the Politician, which I believe that a Politician means scum.

We are now 5 townies VS 2 scum, so I need all the townies to co-operate because now I know that the scum can buy a vote. And if anyone thinks that a vote bought to take down Opie and saved Mgm didn't means Mgm is scum, tell me right now of why.

Yes, I noticed that although my vote not bought by the politician, Opie still lynched with 1 vote difference, but it didn't change the fact of yesterday tendency and our clueless result might be.

She then rereads and pulls back on the above, after people explain why the vote mover is almost certainly a pro town role. The long term full game fence sitting bothers me, and there are other moments of WIFOM I didn’t pull. It might just be her playstyle, but if feels to me like Holy straddles the fence for a while, then comes down on one side, the gets back on it, then goes for the other side.

[Qman]

@Skruffs a little more than a "hmm" please

@Shanba I'm pretty sure you are town, I don't see that changing in the near term. I'm hoping to keep you from being lynched because I think it's a bad lynch.

@Holy, so my case on you, and my belief you are scum, would make you think I'm scum if shanba turned up town? Interesting.

[Qman]

@farside, I only pulled the highlights, but she has been WIFOM heavy. I said that WIFOM tends to get townies lynched if overdone, and she comes after me for it, and says it's only WIFOM in the guessing mind? What the hell does that mean? I don't like how she's played and would gladly lynch her as I think she is scum.

I find your buddy up to fonz interesting. He's made 6 posts in 18 days, two of which were the "hi all" and the "no i messed up" to the mod.

Here are all of Fonz's posts.

Re-read coming.

Meaningless

OK, for starters, why aren't we pseudovoting?

Players post Pseudovote: Name and we do the votecounts ourselves.

Once we have a lynch majority, all town players commit to voting for the vote leader.

This would allow us to play, effectively, normally, and analyse players' play.

Immunity: MGM

Also, I do feel farside said some rather scummy things in the dialogue with my predecessor (who, fortunately, seems to have played a fairly good pro-town game). However, my current top suspect would be Qman. No real effort ever to push the game in a given direction, just pops up occasionally with his list of all the players (which I maintain is a scummy device) to make it look like he's contributing.

Goes after me a bit, and brings up the fact that the should be psuedo voting (Which we kinda havbe been, but not in the form he proposed)

OK, for starters, why aren't we pseudovoting?

Players post

Pseudovote: Name

and we do the votecounts ourselves.

Once we have a lynch majority, all town players commit to voting for the vote leader.

If I'm the minority which not agree with the vote leader result, why should I follow it? :p

The idea is to try to make the game as 'normal' as possible. The election day mechanic allows for lynches by plurality rather than majority, which is scum-favouring, and is open to manipulation by the politician, ditto, and we also have the issue of when the best time to claim is. Should a pro-town power role risk being lynched to keep his/her role a secret? If we garner a majority, give a day or two for claim, then all vote to open polls, that issue is eliminated.

If we try to work out what will happen in election day beforehand, demand that everyone votes the way the town has agreed, and lynch anyone who diverges, then the process is far less open to manipulation- the game becomes, in effect, a normal game of mafia.

At at your suspicion of me... okay, fine by me. It's bullshit to say I've only popped up with lists and you know it, but everyone needs a top suspect.

Well, obviously not every post you've made has been a list. But I've very much gotten the impression you're trying to blend into the background here and not draw too much attention to yourself. Who's got reason to do that? Hmmm.

More on the psuedovotes, and reasoning behind it, which is fine. I don't really think I've been hanging around in the background more than anyone else. *shrugs* But okay.

At the start of the game there was the whole discussion that we should wait to give immunity to whichever person was least scummy.

Granted, you don't need to save me from a lynch today, but if there is a tie I'll be giving the deciding vote. I think that makes it a good move, rather than a bad one.

I agree with the basic point you have, but I don't think there is a snowballs chance of you getting lynched, so I'd rather the other person I think is town not get lynched as well. I don't mind if you get the immunity... I just don't see the point.

The problem with this, of course, is that if there's a real danger of that player being lynched, that means there's several players who will disagree with you vehemently on this.

See my posts after this, I won't let MGM get lynched if I think it's reasonable, but as of right now I don't think he's really in danger.

OK.

Holy's top suspect is shanba.

Qman is most certain Shanba is town out of pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Mgm (who needs prodding btw).

Would either care to explain?

I explained. This post really isn't dogging anything or pressing any points.

No, I meant Mgm. Apparently i was mistaken.

And there's his oops post.

Where the hell is this dogging and pressing? Let me be clear, I'm not going after Fonz here, I just think you are trying to magnify what he's done to be all warm and fuzzy with him.

Holy or Farside will get my vote.

[Qman]

Do you seriously believe scumbags are going to try to give their buddies immunity?

At whom, and in what context is that intended?

[Qman]

@Qman - most of my feeling for the fonz comes from the argument Elias and I had. I don't have the best past with The Fonz, but I realized the one person I felt good with should get immunity. I disagree that we shouldn't give it to a person we are sure is town, but I think it is too early to worry about that right now. Why Shanba for immunity?

I'm not really sure how to address your statement "I disagree that we shouldn't give it to a person we are sure is town". A couple posts ago you said you agreed with it, and switched from MGM whom you seem to think is town, to Fonz... now you don't agree with it? So you are still voting Fonz? Which is it? How can you be more sure Fonz is town than MGM at the current point?

My stance is MGM doesn't need the immunity today as he is the worst lynch possible, so I don't see the value to the town in giving it to him unless we can't agree on someone else. I'd rather protect someone I strongly believe is town, and that is why Shaba has my immunity vote right now. The only two people I'd be comfortable with getting immunity are Shanba/MGM, and I'll vote according to that.

I've addressed why I feel Shanba is town, if you want to know read back a few posts

[Qman]

Just a note: I'd like to see where I was flip flopping, I've stuck with my decisions to the best of my knowledge and don't remember jumping around. I'd just like to see where I was, as I don't think I did. Farside is still at the top of mine, nothing today or last night changed that.

[Qman]

Just a note: I'd like to see where I was flip flopping, I've stuck with my decisions to the best of my knowledge and don't remember jumping around. I'd just like to see where I was, as I don't think I did. Farside is still at the top of mine, nothing today or last night changed that.

Two things caught my attention rereading. First you seemed to figure out Shanba and some comment you made I realize now look like you may had figured out he was the politician. Sorry I don't have time to share the quote with you folks, but Q-man explains his reasoning on Shanba based on Shanba explanation of the vote system that Holy was screaming about. Now I have yet to hear anything remotely from q-man in regards to why I am scum, but seeing how he went for holy and now is after me with nothing at all confirms my suspicion. Like I said most of it was the vote for Holy that caught my eye.

On Shanba, yes I had a good idea he was the Pol, I wasn't sure but I wasn't surprised. That is the reason I didn't think he was a good lynch yesterday. I didn't want to just say "Because he's the pol, people!" when saying why I didn't suspect him. I tried to be circumspect about it.



I've said a few times why you made me uncomfortable. The primary one being YOUR flip flopping day 2 and rather bad case that led to the opie lynch.

As for my vote for Holy, I wasn't the only one, even with Shanba moving your vote 3 others though she was the best lynch.

Pretty much you suspect me for the same thing I suspect you for. Horray.

[Qman]

Why did you vote for Holy, though?

And

The Fonz, did you expect QMan to get many votes other than yours, last night?

Catching up a bit here.

I voted holy because I thought she was the best lynch. Oops. I laid out my reasons well beforehand look back in my posts if you'd like to see them again. It sucks that she was town, but even I can't be perfect.

[Qman]

Another bump.

I'm still curious abou why The Fonz was voting QMan - when it didn't appear anyone else was intending to. I'm thinking maybe he was distancing.

If no one else is voting him why would he promote it? There are 5 players left at this point. Scum wins (if there is 2 scum) if we don't find the right person.

He made his suspicions of me pretty clear in my eyes, I don't know how you missed it. I would have been shocked if he hadn't voted for me honestly. If he hadn't I'd have assumed the only reason for that was a vote move.

[Qman]

Er... I DID promote it? I mean, I didn't go BabyJesus on him, but I made it fairly clear he was my number one suspect.

See my above post, which I made before reading this.

As an aside I'm sure enough that Fonz is town at this point to vote for him to be immune.

Immunity: The Fonz

[Qman]

I don't follow what you are trying to say farside.

If nobody else was voting Qman, but he intended to - because he wanted Qman lynched - why wouldn't he promote it?

yes why promote it. There are 5 players doesn't that mean lylo at this point? Why promote lynching your partner if you are scum. I'm the only one really looking at q-man and you. Mgm doesn't seem to have an opinion and you are looking at the Fonz. If you believe they are partners would you be up for lynching q-man?

See this REALLY doesn't help my belief that you and Skruffs are the scum. That wording is classic "Shall we go after him for the win?"

[Qman]

No, i saw it, it's just you know... wrong, so I ignored it by and large.

[Qman]

The fact that you have to ask the fonz disturbs me on a couple leve,s as he's made it clear it is me.

[Qman]

I'm assuming I've been left alive for the same reason you put 'cleared' in quotation marks. Akonas isn't alive to confirm that is the case.

Also, killing Shanba was probably important to gain control of the votes, perhaps enough to leave me for later. Question is: did the scum know Shanba was the politician? If they did, it makes this scenario a lot more likely. I remember someone saying they knew it, but saying they didn't kill Shanba. Does anyone remember who that was?

I didn't say i

knew

Shanba was the poll, but i did say i was

pretty sure

that he was, if that is what you are referencing.

[Qman]

This is a combined response to Mgm asking wwhy i thought Shanba was the Pol, and farsides last post.


Okay so this is how we were set up yesterday when I sorted out that Shanba was most likely the Poll, along with my comments on each player.

Alive:
The Fonz - Was elias at the time, and didn't read as a power role, but I wasn't sure I was toying with the idea he might be the pol. I'm pretty sure Fonz is a vanilla, versus power, townie after last day and nights cycle, plus early today.
Mgm - probable cop-investigated, probably innocent, don't give a power role vibe and didn't get involved in the vote mover alignment debate.
Skruffs - Gorgon was worthless and didn't comment, he also was just unclear early in the day and skruffs seemed to be ducking saying anything at the end of the day. Scummy vibes. I discounted him as the poll.
Holy - Had the vote moved the night before
farside22 - suspect #1 (after holy)
Shanba - Gave a well reasoned explanation for the pol being town and reading it it struck me that he likely was the pol.
Qman - I know I'm not the poll

That leaves me looking at Shanba and (elias)Fonz as possible people to be the pol.

That was just the day, I felt it was obvious come night that the pol was shanba, after the vote pattern.

Alive:
The Fonz - voted me, vote stayed where it was said it would be. It was also the only vote on me when i cold have ended up with 4 (Farsides, fonz's holy if she voted me, and a moved vote) For this reason i didn't think he was the pol.
Mgm - ??
Skruffs - not feeling really townie, i couldn't picture gorgon as a pro town power role so I ruled this out.
farside22 - stated clearly a skruffs/qman vote, but ended up on holy.
Shanba - ??
Qman - i know it isn't me

I thought there were only 2 possible people from the vote pattern, MGM and Shanba. When matched with my day thoughts... well... let say i was zero percent surprised when shanba turned up as the pol.

Just simple reasoning would give the scum a 50/50 shot at it, without accounting for the fact that the scum know who the scum are, and a 33% chance at worst.

@farside why should scum have killed MGM? I can think of three reasons right away to not kill a probable cop investigation.

1.) If he is a godfather role, it's hard to kill yourself as scum.
2.) To leave him alive because by his lack of dying he becomes more suspicious. See above.
3.) I'd think that trying to off the pol would be more important than killing a confirmed townie. Double voting in the hands of a good player is brutal for scum.

Your assumption and apparent argument that they should have done this, because it's what I'd do, so both I can't be scum, and the person that defended Shanba must be scum is just screwy and filled with holes. That person that said Shanba looked good as town was me, by the way, not "Someone" and if I could reason out that shanba was probably the poll I'd suspect the mafia could do the same.


To say that another way, your last post seems to be saying "I can't be scum, because I'd have killed MGM. He's alive, so stop looking at me!"

[Qman]

My point to q-man is that you noticed it. Do you know anyone who would keep a power role alive who has played this game? Townie is not confirmable. A power role is.
Do you really believe Mgm is GF?

You seem to have this idea that just because I admit i noticed it, that no one else could have noticed it and kept their mouth shut. You are running with blinders on.

I doubt MGM is the/a GF, but ignoring the possibility is plain ignorant.

[Qman]

with Shanba dying instead of me, I don't even think it's evidence against me, at least not at this stage.

I think his point was more, using you still being alive as evidence against someone that isn't you is questionable, at best.

[Qman]

The game was almost cracked open on Night 2. Qman wasn't sure if he could target the person with immunity with his kill. He basically said that, if he could kill Akonas, he would. If not, he would kill Shanba.

If Akonas lived that night, he could have claimed cop and been able to clear Mgm, farside22 and Holy. It would have almost guaranteed victory for town.

Why Akonas didn't use his immunity votes to point out his innocent investigations (except for Day 1), I'll never know. If he cleared farside22 before dying, the last couple days of this game would have been altered dramatically.

Agreed. I was virtually certain Akonas was the cop at the end of day 2, it really woulda sucked if he wasn't nkable.

I really had figured out that shanba was the pol. I was kinda iffy on killing him, as i thought it'd get me lynched, as it did.

I figured I was toast once Shanba turned up Pol, and after driving to Holy mislynch so I tried even harder to tie myself to Farside in non-obvious ways, something I'd been trying to do all game.

[Qman]

Wow, I survived just by being alive at the final polls???
>.> That's interesting.

I had a really, really hard time 'interacting' the final tday because I had to make fonz suspicious by towninizing farside22... I couldn't switch on her because it would have made me look suspicious, so I had to kind of ignore fonz.

Everything I attributed to fonz was actually the exact same situation me and QMan were in the night beforel we could have won by voting farside22 but if all the other players were voting him it would have completely outed me as a liar.

Think Survivor.

When you are immune, the other two people can only vote for each other. Ergo your vote is the deciding vote. No matter who you voted for, it would result in a win. Once you got immunity town was toast.

[Qman]

Think Survivor.

When you are immune, the other two people can only vote for each other. Ergo your vote is the deciding vote. No matter who you voted for, it would result in a win. Once you got immunity town was toast.

Erhm!

Immunity Skruff

Hmm. I did negate the random immunity rule, but I guess intentional immunity is still okay.

No idea what you are saying there.

[Qman]

QMan and me wasn't really sure who to kill the first night I Replaced in... I wound up sending in a kill on Shanba just because he always winds up getting ridiculously suspicious of me the closer to endgame we get in these kind of games.


I don' tthink it was mentioned that he was a likely power role. >.> It was either "Well MGM is probably cleared" and "Shanba's been razzing on me lately", or something like that.

If i saved my night PM's I'd pull it up, but I think i mentioned it. Maybe i'm just misremembering the heavy innuendo i placed that he was the pol in thread though.