Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[springlullaby]

Hi all, glad to play in this game, I love the illustration.

First thing I have to say is don't expect detailed analysis of people's D1 arguments from me, I tried to read everything, it gave me a headache.

That said, here are my observations:

1)D1 discussion was not healthy, too much pushing stuff around, it only served to get the waters very muddy = imo when this happen it's a good sign that scum were out playing.

2) One person stood out to me, lord_hur:
- comment very frequently on the game but doesn't come up with a case of his own
- ask many question with a vague air of accusation, but never seems to infer anything from people's answer
- repeat that he is a newbie

That's enough for me.

Vote lord_hur

On Guardian, I do not see elements which permit to conclude to his alignment with any kind of affirmation that I would endorse, my guts read on him is town, but I think speculation on his alignment is futile anyway. Stoofer's belief that he was scum is noted.

[springlullaby]

1. I am very sorry that I am (arguably with Mr Stoofer) the most active in this game. I will try to make amends as soon as possible.
The problem with your reasoning is, asking a lot of questions and posting what my thinking whenever possible is info gathering. It has nothing to do with exploiting said info. The former has to be public, while the latter is private (until one feels their conclusions or leads are solid enough). But both are essential, and I think I have done my fair share of work globally.
That said, I don't know what you means by having "a case of my own"... Are you blaming me for not knowing for sure that someone is scum ? Because if you mean I didn't give my leads, I just gave them a few posts earlier.

The sarcasm isn't doing you any grace, quantity doesn't equate to quality. Town do not do 'info gathering', town find suspicious people, press charges and judge - this is the meaning of 'coming with a case of your own'. Your vote on Harcker stinks, even more so because of your claim of being new.
1) You indicated that your vote was only half-heartfelt, why vote if you don't want to? Because people you know are town asked maybe?
2) If you are new, you probably don't know that a)not coming up with a case of your own b)being a people's pleaser c)leaving an exit door while casting a vote, are scumtell.

2. Too vague. Any example ? But anyway this is essentially the same as #1

I said a 'vague air of suspicion' and no, it is not the same as 1. Examples? Sure.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#1001978
This post stinks to high heaven, it is I believe totally artificial. A town mind doesn't come up with so many vaguely relevant questions addressed to so many people, it is more likely a post by a scum who want to look busy - especially since you don't seem to be garnering any insight in the game from the answers you got. Other examples abound, look at your own post history.

3. .... what ? I only said I'm a newbie to explain my questions or my behavior. And that surely didn't save me any bashing.

Yes, and it is called playing the newbie card, justification of one's behavior which has been pointed out as scummy by invocation of alleged newbiness. And no, it certainly shouldn't save you any bashing, your newbie game was for something. Are you really not understanding this?


On the whole, I hate your posting pattern. You asks many questions, opening leads all over the place, but never commit to any strong conviction yourself, nor do seem to follow a distinct direction - I think of the people who where pushing stuff around D1, you were the main culprit. I think you are scum.

@SeraphicMirth : did you do write down these notes before or after receiving your role PM ?

Noted.

[springlullaby]

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

Quantify 'come out of nowhere'. Does it mean you don't agree with me? Contrived? What exactly are you implying?

I want a wagon on lord_hur now.

[springlullaby]

The sarcasm isn't doing you any grace, quantity doesn't equate to quality. Town do not do 'info gathering', town find suspicious people, press charges and judge - this is the meaning of 'coming with a case of your own'. Your vote on Harcker stinks, even more so because of your claim of being new.
1) You indicated that your vote was only half-heartfelt, why vote if you don't want to? Because people you know are town asked maybe?
2) If you are new, you probably don't know that a)not coming up with a case of your own b)being a people's pleaser c)leaving an exit door while casting a vote, are scumtell.

2a and 2c are bullshit, but 2b and 1 (which are the same thing) are indeed a scumtell that i noticed before. I can't really explain why I cast that vote. Brainfart I guess. Or maybe I was influenced by Mr Stoofer's experience.

Do you really believe that 2a and 2c are BS? Why? Do you know what scumtell means?
More importantly, are you rejecting the responsibility of your own vote on Stoofer there?

I said a 'vague air of suspicion' and no, it is not the same as 1. Examples? Sure.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#1001978
This post stinks to high heaven, it is I believe totally artificial. A town mind doesn't come up with so many vaguely relevant questions addressed to so many people, it is more likely a post by a scum who want to look busy - especially since you don't seem to be garnering any insight in the game from the answers you got. Other examples abound, look at your own post history.

Oh hell yes it was completely artificial. I started thinking about a few questions, then thought "hey, why not one for every player, I never tried that, maybe I'll get some interesting reactions?". Sounded like a good idea back then, but it totally failed, as almost anyone ignored it. And yes, it ended up completely artificial.

Hm, are you agreeing with me that your post was artificial there? If you are being sarcastic, cut it out, it is not making you easier to understand.
And I'm not liking your answer there, town who have questions usually don't let them go unanswered, they press the matter because they are actually interested in the answers.

Yes, and it is called playing the newbie card, justification of one's behavior which has been pointed out as scummy by invocation of alleged newbiness. And no, it certainly shouldn't save you any bashing, your newbie game was for something. Are you really not understanding this?

Oh, I'm understanding this, but I claim bullshit on it, because it can be applied to any newb. Instead of pointing to it, you should say what scumtell(s?) I was allegedly trying to cover.

Lol, is this a start of an OMGUS I'm sensing? Tell me, are newbies automatically town? See first point of this post for the example you ask, were you or were you not trying to reject the responsibility of your vote on Stoofer's 'experience', implying that you are a misled newbie?

On the whole, I hate your posting pattern. You asks many questions, opening leads all over the place, but never commit to any strong conviction yourself, nor do seem to follow a distinct direction - I think of the people who where pushing stuff around D1, you were the main culprit. I think you are scum.

Yes, I suck at this game. I can't believe it took me 5 games to figure it out.

Is that an open admission of being scummy? What are you saying there exactly? Is that sarcasm again?

@SeraphicMirth : did you do write down these notes before or after receiving your role PM ?

Noted.

You are seriously implying this was not a valid question? The answer completely changes the way you can use the analysis. If she wrote it before she got her role PM, it is unbiased, not if she did it after.

For the motive you invoke to justify why you asked it, I can answer you clearly that no, I do not believe it is a valid question. Tell me, what is the point of mafia game? After you thought about that, answer me, do you seriously believe that there will be people who post game analysis and commit to a vote before they even read their PM?

Are you really that ... clueless?

@others : keep in mind that it's pretty easy to find a few scumtells in that many posts, and she's having an easy time because no one can strike her back since she's replacing a ghost.

Oh, poor little you, life is unfair isn't it?:roll: If you are town, don't whine, it's unbecoming.

To the point, what is the meaning of that paragraph? What it is you are reproaching me exactly there?

--------------------------------
Others thoughts in another post for clarity.

[springlullaby]

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

Quantify 'come out of nowhere'. Does it mean you don't agree with me? Contrived? What exactly are you implying?

I want a wagon on lord_hur now.

Can't really "quantify" out of nowhere. It just seems that you're coming on the attack very strong for having just replaced in. Given the tone of your initial post, the aggressiveness seems out of place and not genuine. I'm not commenting on the merits of your case, but I think that you're faking your emotional response. That is pretty scummy.

I was PMSing, sue me.

That was a joke.

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

------------------------------

I have reread the game a bit, other thoughts.

1) I'm amending what I said about Guardian, if I have no certainty still, I think now that him being scum make more sense than him being town: breadcrumbing cop may attract night kill, but it is also likely to attract doc protection, which make that type of play as miller vastly hazardous. I think Guardian would have thought of that. But that line of thought is still chancy.

2) Up till now Stoofer has done nothing which make me believe he is more scum than town.

3) I can see where the case on Musher is coming from, but I see my case on lor_hur as at least equivalently valid. So I'd like to ask everyone who have not commented to state what they think of lord_hur.

[springlullaby]

Pushing for a quick lynch? Are you kidding me, I'm the only one voting you at the moment.

"overaggressiveness" I think my being agressive is a good thing. You haven't seen me "overaggressive" yet.

"insults" Where?

"heavy word twisting" Where?

And I think the quality of my posts has been constant, but I'll let people judge.

Also, does your last post means you think I am scum?

[springlullaby]

Lord Hur is not scum.

Do I see a soft claim?

I'm not liking your play Hacker.

Votecount please.

[springlullaby]

Nice role fishing there screechingharpy.

SL, I don't know what your intent is, but please remember this is a no-reveal game. If a person claims, he/she will not be confirmed. Everything he/she says will not be taken for sure pro-town talk, even after death. So (though based only on my reasoning, as it's my first no-reveal game) claiming is a lesser strategy than in normal games.

If you think I was rolefishing and that it is scummy, why aren't you voting me? I can assure you that I take full responsibility for everything I post in this game.

What would be the point of doing this type of gambit at L-3, seriously ? Unless you're thinking your little play is going to get me lynched on the spot ? Because then I will take great delight in your disappointment.

What gambit? What are you even talking about? "Take great delight in your disappointment'? Wtf?

screechingharpy, you should think a bit before jumping at the first hint of deceiving playstyle... Most people aren't as mentally twisted as you seem to be (I want to believe you're only playing a role).

?????? Please evidence of my being 'mentally twisted'? When I see scummy playstyle, of course I point it out, why shouldn't I?

Lord_hur, I truly think your play stinks. What is the point of your last couple of posts, beside of calling me 'screechingharpy' that is?

@Singing Librarian - What is the point of info gathering for town if not to come up with cases? I say people who ask many question but who doesn't seem to garner any insight from the answers they got are likely to be scum wanting look busy, what do you say?

Why do you think Lord_hur is town? I see only scummy play from him.

hasdgfas, tvod, chime in please.

[springlullaby]

hasdgfas, musher33, where do you stand?

[springlullaby]

Musher, if you want to claim, then claim and save us the pushing around.

Notice to town: I think hinting at powerole or making threat about claiming to put The Fear of Lynching Blue in people is greatly anti-town in this game because of the non-cardflip. Atm, there is only way to do it: vote the scummiest player.

I'm still happy with my vote but I might be tempted to hammer Musher because your are doing absolutely nothing to make me feel you are town. The only thing holding me back now is that you were that bad a townie in Nice Mafia too.

Answer these questions now, who do you suspect most and why?

[springlullaby]

Also, hasgdfas, why are you not voting?

[springlullaby]

Yeah, sorry, your name is another color.

[springlullaby]

Musher, if you want to claim, then claim and save us the pushing around.

Yay for even more role fishing. You basically said there that what you're hoping to get out of the "pushing around" was his role, and not to get scum lynched.

Unless you have another explanation ?


Also, I've already said that, but I will say it again : claiming is much more risky for town than in a normal game, because of the no-reveal rule. Town will NEVER (unless undo placed a special mechanism) know whether you lied or not, while scum will know your role as normal.

So, town, think twice about it.

But this is only my opinion : who, besides springlullaby, thinks Musher333 should claim and why ?

Way to be thick.

Musher, who did you protect and why. The way you claimed looks way bad.

[springlullaby]

What kind of doc refuse a free protect?

I don't believe this claim, I'm gonna let everyone have their say before switching my vote.

[springlullaby]

Misread that, still, I'm not buying that claim.

[springlullaby]

I'm not liking the way he did it.

[springlullaby]

Hasdgfas, what do you think of that claim?

[springlullaby]

Unvote

I'm rethinking my case against lord_hur, and my view or Musher.


Musher, look closely at your PM and report here once more.

Name?
Profession?
Role?

[springlullaby]

This is L-1 on Musher.

I advise caution now because I myself am starting to believe that claim.

I want that name thing cleared first.

Hackerhuck, I'm not liking your vote, what have people said that convinced you that it's pretty suspect?

Lord_hur, your vote has been on HackerHuck for a while now, but you don't seem to be very concerned to get him lynched, why?

[springlullaby]

Ninja'd, questions still stands.

I'm for name origin claim, I want Hackerhuck to do it before other people.

Town, I'd like you to research the origin of your name thoroughly before claiming.

[springlullaby]

Name origin claim is a good idea because some people have posted suspicious things already. And there is something about Musher's claim that on further reading makes me think he may be genuine.

With 9 people alive, if there is consistency between town names, we can still root out the inconsistent ones by number elimination and examine them further. If there is no consistency, or if there is over consistency, not too much have been revealed since the matter has been brought up already.

[springlullaby]

I didn't buy his claim at first and

you guys are convincing me that it's pretty suspect

.

Hacker, I'd like you to you to quantify the bolded part.

[springlullaby]

This debate over Musher333's claim is fascinating, but at the end of the day it tells us nothing. The fact that his flavour ("physician") is good, tells us nothing. He could be Scum who learns the roles of dead players (not uncommon, see Mafia 45 for an example) or he could have independently thought of this. I don't know why you are all discounting this -- it seems one obvious flavour, and it was his second guess anyway (he started by saying "doctor").

We have

a lot

more informaton on Musher333 than just his claim. Why are you guys ignoring that?

Right now, I feel that the possibility of Musher being doc is somewhat equal to his being scum (somewhat..I still feel a stronger tug towards the scum side of the fence)

If you think you are going to find someone else who you think is more than 50% likely to be Scum... good luck.

I'm not liking the single mindedness here, nor from you nor from HackerHuck or hasfdgas, the problem with the Musher case is that his playing style does sucks naturally and that he has claimed doc.

Right now, I oppose a Musher lynch, and I'm for a deadline extension.

[springlullaby]

I'm going on holidays the 20th, don't know if I'll have internet access. May or may not need a replacement. Notifying you in case I dissapear.

[springlullaby]

Man, why is that everytime you post you ring my scumdar. I'm so not liking your 360 change of attitude toward me considering how you appeared to be upset by me not long ago.

You said you had something on Musher's claim that made you think it was maybe genuine, what is it I want you say.

[springlullaby]

this... 180 change of attitude (360=no change of direction...)

Only in arcdegree wiseass.

Is this an actual question ? (god I hope not, after everything I said on the subject) Is it even a sentence ?

You said that you wanted to say, so what's the matter?

Tell you what, I post a ciphered message with the reason I think Musher's claim may be genuine, then you post yours and I post the cipher.

Of course all this may actually means nothing, but to me it will make clear if you actually have a reason to not support the musher lynch, and not just hinting at thin air to prevent a buddy lynch.

How about that?

[springlullaby]

if the mod allows it of course.

[springlullaby]

You're thick. I just said I didn't understand what you said.

Are you serious?

Is this an actual question ? (god I hope not, after everything I said on the subject) Is it even a sentence ?

I read the 'god I hope not' part as suggestive of you having made some kind of sense out of my question, and only taking the mickey out of my grammar. Why would you lie on something like that?

I tend to believe his claim (about 70% sure).

Not giving any reasons yet.

I was referring to this, have you given all your reasons yet?

[springlullaby]

Try to read one of Musher's game and come again.

If we let Musher go to night:

1. scum kill him - win because it confirms his alignment in case of no cardflip and because it's not a wasted lynch.
2.mafia doesn't kill him - win because he is still there tomorrow to lynch: if he is the true doc, he got one night more to protect people.

[springlullaby]

Btw, googling my name turned up this site, and entering name beginning with 'ka' gave this result: http://www.babynology.com/meaning-kamuzu-m19.html

And Thabit is on that site too, listed a egyptian for 'strong', I think it kind of makes sense for a farmer name. My name is egyptian and kinda make sense along those lines too.

I'm saying this because I strongly oppose a Musher lynch now.

Vote Hackerhuck

I didn't like his position while voting lord_hur earlier, I'm not liking his pushing so strongly for the Musher lynch now.

[springlullaby]

Read the rules before you post anything, don't you dare getting yourself modkilled.

[springlullaby]

Musher, do you really not understand? When you report something you have to paraphrase the Mod's PM as close as you can without actually quoting. Saying that you eat pork is useless to town. My stupidity margin is growing really thin.

[springlullaby]

Musher, I want a full claim grouped in one post. With all the information you want to give, presented in a way that paraphrase the Mod's PM and phrasing as close as possible.

[springlullaby]

You know what, I actually think Musher's grouped claim looks really bad, and am halfway tempted to just hammer and get on with it. On the other hand, I really don't like some of the votes on that wagon.

I'm sticking with my HackerHuck vote for now.

[springlullaby]

I said why I'm voting HackerHuck in the post I'm voting him.

[springlullaby]

I'm against Musher lynch and I already said why, even though he is getting on my nerves thoroughly.

I prefer Hackerhuck lynch, his contribution is on the minimum side and I typically don't like his votes, he does more commenting on the game while agreeing with one wagon or another, then coming up with case of his own.

I understand the suspicion on hasdgfas, though I'm less suspicious of him because there is nothing he said that dramatically ring my 'dar, but the problem is that he contribute even less than Hacker. I think it's an okay lynch.

Stoofer, I think of the people on the Musher wagon is the less likely to be scum. He just doesn't sound like scum. Though I'd like him to unvote Musher if he is town: I already explained that lynching Musher is a bad idea because he is confirmable either by nightkill or by successful protection. I'm not understanding the hardline on lynching Musher because with of the possiblity of no cardflip, letting Musher go to night is just so much better. I'm not liking the 'Dumb Town' argument either, because 'dumb town' is always better than no town, especially in case of possible doc. I'm probably not up to lynch him today.

Lord_Hur I find him fishy, but I think his reaction to the Musher claim is markedly protown. I tend to be willing to write him off as 'playstyle I just don't like'.

[springlullaby]

Stoofer, though I'm kinda sympathetic with the lynch BM the earlier the better sentiment :p, I'm not liking the way you dragged that meta in there. You saying 'I do this as town' doesn't mean you won't do same as scum.

Your vote has been on Musher for awhile now, please post a review of the other players and what you think of them.

[springlullaby]

This is my last post before I go tomorrow.

I'm not hammering Musher, my Hackerhuck vote is sticking.

[springlullaby]

Akil got the nicest illo!

I'm really sorry I flaked out and missed a night action (though I would have tracked Hackerhuck, so no big help there).

I think town was a tiny bit underpowered because no cardflip is very very disadvantageous to town. Maybe a forensic type role wouldn't have gone amiss.

I was totally suspicious of Stoofer entering in the game because of his thingy on Guardian, but the no result on him made me pussy out of that position. Next time I m a tracker know better.

Thanks Undo for hosting the game, the illustrations were superb, and the atmosphere of paranoia well engineered.