Mini 2064 - Giffy-Q (Game Over!)

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Varsoon because he will scumread if I don't. Or if I do.

[RCEnigma]

This pressure is gonna make me full claim.

[RCEnigma]

Hello

Vedith town \o/

I think this is a bad read. Vedith claiming town certainly means scum or third party. Though I do believe he's punched a gorilla.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, I thought Varsoon voting me would pseudo confirm him but he did the same in OK2. I need a new test method.

[RCEnigma]

Incomplete but ok list actually

[RCEnigma]

I liked serious enter, heart on his sleeve enter. But I appreciate that he realizes he can't Lynch me. At least not today.

[RCEnigma]

I e developed my scummy town play so that's a thing.

[RCEnigma]

Do you believe prince, Dunn, mariar have a neighborhood?

[RCEnigma]

Do you believe prince, Dunn, mariar have a neighborhood?

Why is this a relevant question? Nya~

VOTE: enter

Next question was going to be why is enter voting Varsoon when there is a 6 man pool that has a high probability of containing scum and of those 6 from his point of view he can remove himself from that pool.

Before someone argues that scum might not be in the neighborhoods. Sure, but they might. I'd rather hunt in 6 than in 12 slots.

[RCEnigma]

But I like his recent vote so.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Prince

[RCEnigma]

Put em up.

[RCEnigma]

Rip Varsoon. Hola wisdom.

[RCEnigma]

The dankest timeline.

[RCEnigma]

That's a +town avatar.

[RCEnigma]

Read not available. Only really disliked one post. We aren't even in the game yet.

[RCEnigma]

That's where I'm trying to get us.

Do you have anything on anyone?

The way I figure it, if you haven't sorted her yet, her wagon isn't a bad place to do it.

Townleans on Vedith and Chara. No scumreads.

[RCEnigma]

I'll change my vote when I see something scummier than a double claim. Of anything it needs to be policy lynched, I'll never see it as town.

Besides that I am always conservative with my votes. You saw that in our newbie game, it isn't an alignment indicative thing I just don't generally vote swing.

[RCEnigma]

Ok, which part of my neighborhood theory? It doesn't hold any weight since there is only 1 real neighborhood. But humor me.

[RCEnigma]

I made that post before Pink ball denied the neighborhood existed. You can't retroactively make my observations on a later exposed fake claim scummy.

Furthermore it absolutely makes sense that we would have a higher chance of picking 1 scum from 6 slots. Any town in those 6 slots can eliminate themselves and the probably 1 of the other slots being scum is 1 in 5 and up to 50% likely from their point of view. As opposed to hunting between 12 other slots which has less than a 10% chance of being scum in isolation. I did 0 actual math these are just approximations but you see my point.

Also if you really think that's scummy then what is my motivation there? If my partner(s) is in one of the proposed neighborhoods it's weak distancing at best. If they aren't then I'm simultaneously spewing 6 slots as town. I may not be good at playing scum but thats a disrespectful estimation of my play.

[RCEnigma]

Well the very fact you said we should look on these 6 people instead of generally in the game. Let alone that the second set was outright denied by the other people.

I coukd understand saying that something was fishy between the two people(the one that claimed it and the one that denied it) but the rest? It's totally irrelevant and I find it fishy you want us to focus on the six.

Let me rebuttal with this. Have you sorted all 12 slots outside of your own yet?

A readslist would be nice to know what you think of everyone.

[RCEnigma]

Furthermore it absolutely makes sense that we would have a higher chance of picking 1 scum from 6 slots. Any town in those 6 slots can eliminate themselves and the probably 1 of the other slots being scum is 1 in 5 and up to 50% likely from their point of view. As opposed to hunting between 12 other slots which has less than a 10% chance of being scum in isolation. I did 0 actual math these are just approximations but you see my point.

i can tell you didn't do any math, because a random subset of 12 players could have 1 scum in it, or it could have none.
so it doesn't really make sense. i'm not holding it against you, though!

What? Idk how you assume it could have 0 scum since the game is going. Assuming you're town a random subset of 12 excluding you has 3 to 4. At least 3, always.

[RCEnigma]

Didn't get what you meant. That's semantics though. You could choose 10 slots at random and there could be 0 scum there. I maintain that as a starting point, sorting 6 players is far better than sorting all 12 from a starting point of 0 reads.

[RCEnigma]

Shiro couldn't give an actual reason why it was scummy but I guess.

[RCEnigma]

Didn't get what you meant. That's semantics though. You could choose 10 slots at random and there could be 0 scum there. I maintain that as a starting point, sorting 6 players is far better than sorting all 12 from a starting point of 0 reads.

how about you start by sorting 3?

This wasn't about my reads.

[RCEnigma]

I like prince a little better now tbh.

[RCEnigma]

Better than I did previously.

[RCEnigma]

I liked Vedith's townblock. Not the people in it but the reasoning behind it. Townleaned you on tone, you seemed pretty happy to have the game going.

[RCEnigma]

And I guess I scumread shiro since her scumread seems fabricated. I don't think she believes me pushing the neighborhoods is scummy because one ended up being fake afterwards. That seems weird to me.

Those are my 3 reads then. I probably got an A not to brag.

[RCEnigma]

I asked why she thought it was scummy and she said it's because enters neighborhood was fake. ??

I don't think his town block was serious either but it was town to me how he presented it and why. You probably have a better read on Enter than I do, i only played one game with him so my read is objective and his playstyle is different from that game anyways. I do think he's capable as scum though.

[RCEnigma]

Furthermore it absolutely makes sense that we would have a higher chance of picking 1 scum from 6 slots. Any town in those 6 slots can eliminate themselves and the probably 1 of the other slots being scum is 1 in 5 and up to 50% likely from their point of view. As opposed to hunting between 12 other slots which has less than a 10% chance of being scum in isolation. I did 0 actual math these are just approximations but you see my point.

Also if you really think that's scummy then what is my motivation there? If my partner(s) is in one of the proposed neighborhoods it's weak distancing at best. If they aren't then I'm simultaneously spewing 6 slots as town. I may not be good at playing scum but thats a disrespectful estimation of my play.

1. I've seen all town neighborhoods: Especially considering there is only one neighborhood of 3, it is very likely that you would know from your scum buddies that they aren't in any neighborhoods => you say safe to push

2. You're using bad math/bad logic again, like you did in newbie when you were scum.

{scum:town} in neighborhood is just as likely to be proportionate to {scum:town} in game, or completely non-existent in the neighborhoods, given that it's happened before. You're pushing off a logical fallacy

Which is all fine, saying neighborhoods can be all town doesn't make them all town though. The pushback against hunting within that block of 6 at the very least, makes me think twice.

[RCEnigma]

I want to say maybe RCE is town and just insanely bad with probability

And Shiro kinda town too. Those reads would be maybe in between Vedith/Prince and MariaR/PB

The newbie I was in he was using bad numbers to justify bad play as well.

I’m assuming he flipped town there?

Because it really looks like he’s trying to solve. And I don’t mean to be patronizing in saying that but there’s no nicer yet clear way to say it I don’t think.

No, he flipped scum.

In fact he looked a lot like this, used a lot of numbers, tried to look like he was solving, and convinced me he wasn't scum in the process. :/

I don't really remember using numbers, just broken logic I couldn't justify explaining.

[RCEnigma]

I'm actually super comfortable with wisdom being town and I think our blocks are pretty similar. I'll put Vedith in mine though since he put me in his.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Blackjacks

I will say at the moment Vedith/Renais are like the lowest in my townreads, Enter/Wisdom are at the top and don't think they are together as scum if one ends up being wrong.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, I feel you pulled this outta nowhere. What's the thought behind this pairing?

[RCEnigma]

Just people you find individually scummy? Maybe.

[RCEnigma]

Fwiw I don't think Enter really scumreads me, but he won't townread me because he'll be afraid he's losing to scum!me again.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, fair. I only voted because I thought the point that none of the Hydra had shown any effort was good. Also, Dunn likely gets invested like night 1 if we have any so I probably wouldn't vote there anyways.

[RCEnigma]

The post I voted in isn't that relevant I just didn't want to naked vote.

[RCEnigma]

Possibly. But I think the way people are tying Maria to Dunn makes him a better invest target. Do you disagree?

[RCEnigma]

In almost all cases yes but that's personal preference probably.

[RCEnigma]

Also, Dunn likely gets invested like night 1 if we have any so I probably wouldn't vote there anyways.

what kind of logic is this

if someone is likely scum you lynch them, you dont wait for cops if they even exist to catch them

I personally don't think he's scum. I haven't read them at all and don't recall any if their posts.

However if I have two slots I scumread equally with equal equity and one has a better chance of identifying an additional slot then sure I'd go with that.

[RCEnigma]

In almost all cases yes but that's personal preference probably.

So in the context of Dunn's ISO, what do you think of 508?

Sure, scummy. If that's your argument for why I should be voting Dunn over Blackjacks then sorry but no.

[RCEnigma]

How can you not think he is scum if you haven't read his posts >_>

Am I obligated to scumread bad posts?

[RCEnigma]

The difference between blackjacks and dunn is that dunn has tried to affect the game. In a very underwhelming way but you can see possible agenda there

Blackjacks have posted nothing game related

Does that make Blackjacks less likely scum?

[RCEnigma]

Oh nevermind you did answer me!

All aboard!

Also Pink Ball, myself, and Blackjacks are in a neighborhood together.

I deny this.

VOTE: Enter

What else would I imply by denying a neighborhood claim? I'm not in any neighborhood whatsoever.

Gonna discuss this with Prince/Maria, not sure how to feel about Enter lying about neighborhoods

Is this what you mean by affecting the game? This is Dunn's only real game post. I don't know how this seems agenda driven.

[RCEnigma]

Yet all of the content generated around Dunn is about Maria's ability to read him. Not about Dunn's content itself. Which is still weak, he's not with slaxx... probably. But to say any of that is agenda driven is meh.

[RCEnigma]

I ceded on slaxx. The way people are talking about Dunn's level of play makes it seem unlikely to me that Scum!Dunn's opening play is rolefishing Varsoon. I don't see it as rolefishing but, semantics I guess.

The Maria one is interesting though. I'll ho back and read it in context.

[RCEnigma]

Wisdom, I read the "...probably" as a huge out.

I haven't given actual thought to the interaction yet. But surface level it looks like you aren't together.

[RCEnigma]

Lol I even like more people on the Dunn wagon than the Blackjacks wagon.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: RCE

Dismissive is another good way to describe your attitude towards me that game.

@PR TBH I don't really know blackjacks but if what you're saying is true you might be overthinking it. Ofhrz has been active elsewhere on site for the past little while now. Might be scum team is just counting on the wagon to fall off because of no content to it.

Ehh you were pretty much IC we had to play around. Still don't think you have a reliable read on me based on one game I repped into.

[RCEnigma]

I'll refute the read on ofhrz as I've seen them lurk as either alignment but I don't know the other 2.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE:

So Blackjacks was on L-1 via slaxx vote briefly. It wasn't announced but slaxx moved to Eevee pretty quick so meh. Maybe I'm not seeing the obvtown thing because he's pushing me as a team with dunn.

On the other side of the coin I'm not a fan of the slots borderline towning me in a group with shiro. I don't find her townie.

Also think there is a lot of subtle pocketing going on, I just don't know where.

[RCEnigma]

That may be a bad phrasing thing. I'll grab people's lists but I mean throwing me and shiro in the same categories.

[RCEnigma]

Eh, maybe a misread by me. I thought Chara was putting us in a nullish pool together and Slaxx did the same previously though that read has probably changed since then. So I'm wrong there.

[RCEnigma]

I spew enter as town.

[RCEnigma]

RCE was one of my biggest question marks this game and I believe I have found a meta tell that will determine his alignment with 100% accuracy.
I'm verifying it further because I'd feel really stupid if I came in declaring this sure of a read and was wrong. More to follow.

Not to call you a donkey but...

[RCEnigma]

Idk what sound donkey's make.

Wee-snaw.

[RCEnigma]

Shiro likes my jokes so I'm heavily considering retracting my scumread.

[RCEnigma]

Jokes don't translate well on mafiascum it seems.

[RCEnigma]

To elaborate I think Shiro is scum but I like them as a person.

[RCEnigma]

The NGNL avatar helps.

[RCEnigma]

Something happen to Maria's post restriction?

[RCEnigma]

Ty.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I'd agree with that.

[RCEnigma]

If you keep pushing this fake tell I'm taking it as a scumclaim Renais.

[RCEnigma]

Because I'm town ergo the tell doesn't exist.

[RCEnigma]

If it doesn't exist it's fabricated. Why would town need to fabricate a tell to push a lynch?

[RCEnigma]

The only way you aren't scumtelling isnit you're actually Elsa lol.

[RCEnigma]

It's fake news you've even claimed to verify. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're just scum and not actually bad.

[RCEnigma]

Vig me then lol.

[RCEnigma]

That doesn't inspire confidence.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, with Maria maybe.

[RCEnigma]

The only way you aren't scumtelling isnit you're actually Elsa lol.

What does this mean?

If prince is Elsa this kind of play is nai.

[RCEnigma]

Here's the point I'm trying to make btw

How serious does pretty much anyone take it if someone says yo I have this 100% meta tell and it says your scum you die now

Especially me being some random

I don't think town RCenigma takes it all that seriously

Where as scum he's scared and wants to discredit it hence the fake yada yada yada yada.

I'm literally turning into RC just with a shitty town game.

[RCEnigma]

Err radiant, not me. The other RC.

[RCEnigma]

Ah. Not making any comments on who PR is,

But the play is NAI.

Probably town indicative, if anything.

I follow the process and could kinda guess at what he was doing as he did it, so I'm not surprised it turned this way.

I think I somewhat agree with the results? I've run similar gambits before but it's been so long that I'm not sure how reliable this specific one is.

Meh, I trust your read. I'm mafia drained I think.

[RCEnigma]

Still a v confusing post

Attacking all my scumreaders, defaulting to ate, conspiracy theorizing. The RC things. I just don't have the drive to follow through and turn any of it into a town positive as of now.

[RCEnigma]

That unvote sketches me out a lot.

Pretty sure Shiro is town.

[RCEnigma]

ask RCE about dismissive arguments pls

Lol I've traumatized him.

Maria what was the tell?

[RCEnigma]

My only issue with Enter at the moment is that his read is me being dismissive with slots and he hasn't really questioned why I've actively been buddying up to him.

Still think he is town, wisdom/enter/shiro/Chara. It's kinda weird most of my townreads scumread but I feel they are wrong with ok-ish intentions if jIcompare it to the way PoR approached trying to read me which was already angled.

[RCEnigma]

OK i changed my mind on MariaR.

Vote:Enigma

If he flips scum, enter is likely scum with him. I really don't like enter saying, yes

he is playing yo his scum game but yada yada

.

what does this mean

My only issue with Enter at the moment is that his read is me being dismissive with slots and he hasn't really questioned why I've actively been buddying up to him.

Still think he is town, wisdom/enter/shiro/Chara. It's kinda weird most of my townreads scumread but I feel they are wrong with ok-ish intentions if jIcompare it to the way PoR approached trying to read me which was already angled.

you buddying me is the only thing keeping me from lynching you right now

i didn't see scum you do it

Fair enough lol.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm on second thought that doesn't quite feel right. I did a fair bit of buddying in our game together. Not with you specifically but still.

[RCEnigma]

Nice win!! But remember kids, suicide is never the answer!

[RCEnigma]

I don't think I even would have thought of self shooting to dodge the bus driver. Very well played.