Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok, reading through the thread now:
First of all, Zind is totally an A-list celebrety.Capricious wrote: Let us discuss why the kill was made on an unknown player, and not on B-list celebrities such as Zindaras and Skruffs, or even a D-list celeb like Y. I feel that if the scum were solely composed of relative newbs, they would target a strong player, not only because it would be a good play, but that the weak always want to get to the strong.
Secondly, I'm not sure why everyone jumped all over Capricious for this post; considering nothing else had happened yet, this is not a completly invalid line of reasoning to start out with until something better comes along.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Rotten Snitch wrote:Mizzy I don't think it is just empty fingerpointing. The game only identifies vanilla townies. We may be correct in assuming that there is a cop, seer, or investigator who was able to get a read on someone Night-0. Although right now it may seem like empty accusations but I'm sure there could be truth behind one of them.
Just a thought.fos:Rotten Snitchfor anti-town cop speculations.
Skruffs: Was your early attack on Zindy serious?
On the other hand, this Capricious posts feels less pro-town
Capricious wrote:
Don't threaten, if you want to voice your opinion through a vote, do so. Votes leave us with more evidence and track record later. That post just makes you look scummy because anything I reply with can be struck down by you as not on par with "excellent contribution". Thereby giving you what would appear to be a solid reason to slip a vote to others.
Nothing wrong with threatening to vote, or saying you might vote, or whatever else. This feels OMGUSy to me.
And capricious gets wierder as the game goes on...the whole investigative roles-wolfbane-stuff is bizzare.
Ok, read up to the end of page 5 now...time for dinner, be back in a little while.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Skruff's warewolf role speculation stuff just feels a bit wierd to me. FOS, although I can't really explain why.
Also, this post kind of bugs me:
...Skruffs wrote: zindaras is not off the hook and needs to be analyzed mercilessly throughout the game (As I am pretty sure he will outlast me)
Huh...so, no majority at deadline means no lynch? Ok, that changes things a bit, I will make sure to place a good vote after I finish my re-read.
Not a big fan of Rotton Snitch's suggestion of a Skruffs-Zindy connection; I don't see that at all.
ALso:
Uh,huh? You think he's trying to...pull attention away from you in order to get you lynched?Rotton Snitch wrote:
Mizzy- I actually don't think Skruffs is trying to pull the attention away from me. I think he is waiting on a better time to bring the heat back on me. I don't know what his intentions are now but he was too quick to write me off like he did. I will admit that my previous posts seemed scumy although it was not my intent. I saw something in Skruffs posts. Although it was WIFOMy on my part I apologize. I still get a tingle when I read Skruffs posts.......call it love.... or call it suspicion.
On a side note, while I don't agree with basically anything Skruffs said, oddly enough my meta on him makes me think that irrational early-game agression for bad reasons isn't a scum tell from him, heh. Pretty neutral on Skruffs right now.
Capricious voted himself to avoid a no lynch? Uh...that's kind of strange. Could you explain why you think that's a good move, Capricious? On the other hand, if he was scum, he might have just lurked and it might have caused a no-lynch here, if I'm understanding the rules right, whihc means that him posting and voting himself might be a weak town tell here. (Or, I guess the word I'm looking for is, an "anti-scum" tell). Odd.
Oddly enough, if Capri expects to get lynched today or tommorow, I could see Capritown deciding that lynching himself is better for the town then a no-lynch, and I can't imagine capriscum ever deciding that lynching himself is better then a no lynch. Unless he's capriscum pulling a WIFOM thingy here.Mizzy wrote: 1) Capritown > Gets bored and doesn't care > Votes for self > Hurts town by aiding his own mislynchI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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So...how does this deadline work, exactally? Are we in danger at the moment? Because my current instint is to leave my vote where it is, on Rotton Snitch, unless we need me to move it in order to avoid a no-lynch. Is that going to happen soon?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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...Skruffs wrote:Mizzy and (zind) are scum, but would prefer to lynch mito help case on zind
Yos is 'fine' and pretending to be town while ignoriing looking at serious things?
(Case against zind was inflamed by others, etc)
Uh, the only "serious" thing about the so-called "case against zind" was that it makes you look bad. Did I miss something, or should I be paying more attention to how it makes you look bad?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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"well shucks howdy folks"?Skruffs wrote: Yos: If something looks bad, I should be questioned on it. You are a smart man, you can figure things out. I understand you just replaced in but something about your "Well shucks howdy folks" strikes me as an act. I don't really like it.
You do look bad, at several points in the game, and I think I already pointed them out. Especally, your attacks on Zinderas makes no sense at all. It seems like it's all "I'm going to be suspicious of Zinderas because I saw him as scum once and he kinda scared me". If there's more to your case on Zindy then that, I'm not seeing it.
The only thing that's in your favor at this point is that I have a meta on you that you're often irratiaonlly agressive and paranoid for bad reasons, especally towards players you precieve as good. It's not a helpful or a pro-town way for you to act, but it is a way I've seen you act while town before, so I'm not counting it as strongly against you as I would against most people.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I think it's fair to say that I pretty much completly disagree with everything Sir T said all game, except for his vote on RS.Zindaras wrote: Yossy, what do you think of the meta-ing that Sir T did on me at the start of the game?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmm...Elmo wrote:Um. Andy's vote on Snitch and behaviour around Capri (I think?) irks me; I had more than that, but I can't call it to mind right now. With Y.. I don't know, really. Zindy said "he feels off", I only really have a vague feeling at the moment.. I guess he doesn't seem to have engaged with the game much, and I don't really dig Skruffs being his main suspect at this point. I'm just curious as to what you think, I guess. Ugh, off to bed for me.
Well, in the early game, Andy looks pretty agressive, he got off to a start doing what looks like real scumhunting-ish stuff pretty fast, and that tends to give me good vibes. He's slowed down lately, he hasn't really contributed much content recently, though. I don't see anything especally scummy from him.
Y seemed to focus on Capi for most of the game, then he kind of shifted over to Skruffs for reasons I don't really understand. Y, could you explain why he's your main suspect right now? (Also, re-reading Y's posts, that thing about easter was great. )I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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/here
Yeah, this isn't going anywhere.vote:CapriciousThat's lynch -1. I don't want to see anyone hammer today, since we've got the requisite 6 people posting so we won't hit deadline today, but he needs to either claim or somehow otherwise convince people he's town, and he needs to do it now.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Post...
ANd I'm only the 3rd person to post today, and it's alrady 4:18.
If it looks like we're not going to get the full 6 people today, then someone will need to hammer Capi in order to avoid a no-lynch; I'd do it myself, if I wasn't already voting for him. Capi, if you want to avoid dying within the next few hours, you need to show up and defend yourself, and you need to do that RIGHT NOW.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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It's not so much because I think he's especally likely to be scum, not much more so then anyone else anyway. It's more that, at this point, it looks like that unless he starts defending himself better or unless something else happens, the day appears that it is going to end in either a no-lynch or a capi lynch. I'd rather see a capi lynch then a no-lynch, and I'm also hoping that the added pressure will encourage him to come back and try to defend himself or claim or something, and to do it fast.Zindaras wrote: I would like to ask all the players currently voting Capricious: "Why are you voting Capricious?"
If you think he's scum, explain. Extrapolate. Because I personally simply don't really see any reason why I should be voting Capricious right now.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Why's that?Zindaras wrote:
So, these things really really tick me off, Yossy.Yosarian2 wrote:Eh.I was never a big fan of the capi lynch,but I tend to think that the way he barely posted for days and refused to answer simple questions while he was the biggest wagon in the game with a deadlinemade his lynch necessary.
I suppose it would have been clearer to say "the Capi wagon"
I'd like to hear his response/defense here about it before I say anything else.
What do you think about the fact he didn't leave time for Capri to claim?Yosarian2 wrote:I don't have a problem with him hammering. The way he did it, and the precise timing, was odd, and I'd like to hear what he has to say about that today.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, yes, and I made that 100% clear yesterday. You're acting like I'm being hypocritical here, when that's the exact same thing I said before we lynched him. I would have loved to have a better bandwagon yesterday, but it just wasn't going to happen.Zindaras wrote: "Hi, Capri wasn't scum and I didn't really like lynching him even though I voted him."I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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My main suspect had been RS, which is who I was voting for before I voted for Capi.Zindaras wrote:
I didn't like it yesterday either, but I was obviously focusing on Andy's decision to hammer back then.Yosarian2 wrote:
Um, yes, and I made that 100% clear yesterday. You're acting like I'm being hypocritical here, when that's the exact same thing I said before we lynched him. I would have loved to have a better bandwagon yesterday, but it just wasn't going to happen.Zindaras wrote: "Hi, Capri wasn't scum and I didn't really like lynching him even though I voted him."
You're not particularly hypocritical, I just see you claiming that Andy's lynch was "necessary", when I see it completely and utterly differently. The only necessary lynches are scum lynches. The only reason to lynch someone is because you think they're scum (barring deadline issues). You see, I see you saying that no other lynch was going to happen, but I see you claiming you would've preferred someone else. I see Skruffs saying that he's just ensuring a Day 1 lynch. I see Y claiming Capri's not his main suspect. I see Andy, where I'm not sure what he was thinking. But, if you look at the "real" vote count, you see something interesting (before Andy's hammer):
2 Capricious (eldarad, hasdgfas)
1 Andycyca (Elmo)
1 hasdgfas (Capricious)
1 Mizzy (Skruffs)
1 Skruffs (Y)
1 Y (Zindaras)
4 Unvote (Mizzy, Rotten Snitch, Andycyca, Yosarian2)
I have no idea where you would've put your vote because I don't think you ever said anything about your main suspect (and I'm skimming because I want sleep), but, basically, the people who just wanted to assure a lynch? They're the ones who got Capricious killed.
When I voted for Capi, there were, I think, 4 votes on him, no one else had more then 1 vote, and we'd already been in a "any day could be deadline" situation for, what, a week or more? Something like that? And there was absolutly no momentum pushing in any other real direction.
At that point, I only saw the day ending in 1 of 3 ways:
1. A no-lynch happeneing when inevitably sooner or later we don't have 6 people posting in a day. Could have happened at any time.
2. Capi showed up and started doing a better job defending himself, answering questions and/or claiming, doing a good enough job that the people currently voting him would leave the wagon and go elsewhere
or
3. Capi got lynched.
That was the only 3 possibilities, and I wanted it to be either #2 or #3. By the way I voted for him, you can probably tell that I was primarally hoping to scare him enough so he'd defend himself or claim or something, but was also willing to see him lynched if he wouldn't do that. And when he posted after my vote, he continued to ignore me, continued to refuse to even try and explain his actions or whatever.
Basically, I was hoping that if he was town, that he'd give me an everyone else a reason to unvote him so we could move on, and he just refused to do it, for reasons I still don't understand. So, yeah, I think the fact he was not at all defending himself at that point made his lynch inevitable. And while I only though there was, say, a 40-45% chance he was scum, that's still better then a no-lynch if those are my two options.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yup, pretty much. A mislynch is always partly the fault of the guy who gets lynched and partly the fault of the pro-town people on the wagon. In this case, I think a very large part of the lynch was due to Capi's complete failure to defend himself.Zindaras wrote: I don't think this is the correct way to treat it. You're basically blaming Capri for his own lynch.
I basically did everything in my power to get him to respond, to defend himself, to give us a reason to go after someone else. There is an entire series of my posts where I consistatnly kept trying to ratchet up the pressure on him in the hopes of getting some kind of reaction we can use, and he just kept ignoring me.
I wanted him to answer that question before we said anything else; I wasn't going to give any more possible pro-town justifications for his action for him to hide behind, I wanted HIS reasons, BEFORE some townie gave him reasons. And then I kept ratching up the pressure, notch by notch; that usually works to make a person start dealing with the issue, to start responding to points made against him and all that, but for some reason, he just ignored it all. Here's the progression:Yosarian2 wrote: You know, before we debate this any more:
Capi, could you explain exactally why you thought voting yourself was a good idea?
Yosarian2 wrote:Capri needs to answer my question ASAP, and if he wants to claim he should do it now. We're going to screw up and miss a deadline eventually, we don't have time to waste here.Yosarian2 wrote:If you keep ignoring my question, Capi, you're probably going to get lynched quite soon, FYI.Yosarian2 wrote:/here
Yeah, this isn't going anywhere. vote:Capricious That's lynch -1. I don't want to see anyone hammer today, since we've got the requisite 6 people posting so we won't hit deadline today, but he needs to either claim or somehow otherwise convince people he's town, and he needs to do it now.Yosarian2 wrote:Post...
ANd I'm only the 3rd person to post today, and it's alrady 4:18.
If it looks like we're not going to get the full 6 people today, then someone will need to hammer Capi in order to avoid a no-lynch; I'd do it myself, if I wasn't already voting for him. Capi, if you want to avoid dying within the next few hours, you need to show up and defend yourself, and you need to do that RIGHT NOW.
I made it quite clear exactally what he had to do if he wanted me to not vote for him. I needed a real response from him, an explination, a defense, something with some meat to it that I could sink my teeth into and rip apart use to figure out his alignment. If he had done that, if he had convinced me he was pro-town (and I think I made clear I was willing to be convinced), I would have not only unvoted him, I would have turned around and defended him, and tried to get the town moving in a different direction. But there was just no way to do that without a defense from him, without something that would help me figure out his alignment one way or the other to the point where I was confident enough of it to do a move like that, and then use to convince others of it. I can't defend someone who's not going to defend himself, and I can't really start another wagon that deep into deadline-any-second-terratory unless I can really explain both to myself and others why it's so much better then the current wagon that it's worth trying to dismantle the whole thing and starting over and run a really high risk of hitting a no-lynch instead. I needed SOMETHING to work with, and he just wouldn't give it to me no matter what I did, no matter how clearly I tried to communicate exactally what he needed to do in order to not be lynched. So, yeah, perhaps it sounds harsh, but I do blame him for his own lynch.Yosarian2 wrote:
It's not so much because I think he's especally likely to be scum, not much more so then anyone else anyway. It's more that, at this point, it looks like that unless he starts defending himself better or unless something else happens, the day appears that it is going to end in either a no-lynch or a capi lynch. I'd rather see a capi lynch then a no-lynch, and I'm also hoping that the added pressure will encourage him to come back and try to defend himself or claim or something, and to do it fast.
That being said, that dosn't mean that there weren't any scum on the wagon, of course. At the moment, I'm thinking Eldred; it feels like he's massivly over-reacted to some fairly reasonable and vauge posts by Mizzy, to the point where he's giving me a "scum who knows he's pushed a bad wagon" vibe. It's kind of a gut thing, but it's the best I've got at the moment, sovote:EldredI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Really not liking Rotten Snitch again here. Along with my day 1 reasons, today it feels like all he's doing is lurking and making excuses for lurking. He hasn't said much about the wagon yesterday or what could be gained by it, he didn't response to the Mizzy/Eldred debate, or to anything else really, and he hasn't given any hint about who he thinks is scummy.fos:rotten snitchLooks to me like he was trying to fly under the radar, Mizzy called him on it, and now he's in defensive mode. Rotton Snitch, I need to hear what YOU think. If you had to pick, right now, who would you say is most likely to be scum in your mind?
On a side note, there's nothing inherently wrong with looking for connections based on who avoids commenting on who else; scum often do carefully avoid commenting on each other. However, you can't really go on just that alone; it's more useful as something to look for once you've found a scum, or when a person avoids commenting on the main issue of the day, because individual townies obveously often just dosn't bother commenting on other specific individuals when there's no real reason to comment on them.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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That was the first real thing you've said all day, Rotton Snitch, you only did it in response to pressure about your lack of contrabution, and you were incredibly vauge about it. If you think Skruffs is scum, could you explain why? Same with Mizzy or Zindy. What have they done that makes you think they're likely to be scum, exactally?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I'm not sure why "vaugeness" in this case is a scumtell. She didn't like the wagon yesterday, and dosn't like it today in retrospect; isn't that kind of how you would expect a pro-town person to respond in that situation? She was discussing the wagon, which is only logical since that's the main thing we've talked about today, and has basically been venting her opinions on it in general. Could you show me exactally what it is she's said that you think scum would be more likely to say then town?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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How am I "subtly goading Mizzy"?Skruffs wrote: Yos seems to be subtly goading Mizzy, which I really don't like.
I've been mistrustful of Yos ever sinec Open 14, though, so I'm hyper sensitive to his playstyle, even if I can't really understand it.[/quote]
Heh...yeah, you pretty much do attack me in every single game we're in together.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Anyway, we need to wagon someone, and we need to do it now, we've got no time. Why are so many people not voting? Are people so afraid of another bad bandwagn that we're just going to no-lynch today? What the heck?
I'm still thinking either Rotton Snitch or eldarad is fine. I'm actually a bit more suspicious of Rotton Snitch at the moment
unvote
vote:Rotton Snitch
I don't really like the Mizzy wagon, but we need to move SOMEWHERE. Everyone needs to get in here and vote, and they need to do it now.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Uh, we have half a week until deadline, and the biggest bandwagon is exactally two people. I'm not saying we need to hammer someone right now, but we need to start moving towards a lynch, hopefully with time and inclination to be able to back off and go somwhere else if we want to. We need to start moving towards a lynch NOW, so we AREN'T forced to either no-lynch or fire off a quick "it's deadline lets lynch someone now" situation.hasdgfas wrote:
Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.Yosarian2 wrote:Anyway, we need to wagon someone, and we need to do it now, we've got no time. Why are so many people not voting? Are people so afraid of another bad bandwagn that we're just going to no-lynch today? What the heck?
I'm still thinking either Rotton Snitch or eldarad is fine. I'm actually a bit more suspicious of Rotton Snitch at the moment
unvote
vote:Rotton Snitch
I don't really like the Mizzy wagon, but we need to move SOMEWHERE. Everyone needs to get in here and vote, and they need to do it now.
As for the current conversation, I don't have any specific problem with it, other then it's not moving us any closer to a lynch. Mizzy didn't like the wagon yesterday, but dosn't seem to really suspect any one person on the wagon. Fine, but why are we dewlling on it so much? People need to either make a case based on the Capi wagon, or make a case based on something else, but we need to be making cases.
Deadline could come as early as 3 days from now, and we've got no real leads from today, no bandwagons or reponses to wagons, and very little in the way of attacks or defense. Sy it's day 4 and you're re-reading today. Is there anything that's happened today so far that's going to help you figure out player X's alignment once you know player Y's and player Z's alignment? I don't really think so, because no one's attacking anyone else, so no one's defending anyone else, so there's no connections or scumhunting or "X was right about Y being scum, X is probably pro-town", or "A attacked B, but it looks like a bus" or anything like that.
Basically, no, I don't like the way today is going so far, because it's not going anywhere. Seconly, no, we do NOT have "pleanty of time"; we're only assured of 2 weeks per day, and we've already used up most of that without getting anywhere. Yes, "more information is better", but if no one's voting and no one's attacking anyone, then we're not really GETTING much information. We need to actually start moving somewhere, and we need to do it now.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I made my thinking yesterday quite clear, thank you. If you have a problem with my thinking, then respond to the post where I explained exactally what I did yesterday and why.Rotten Snitch wrote:What I do not like about the wagon and it’s riders is that Yos suspected me day 1 and day 2 but was ok with a “vote someone else because nothing is gonna change it” and Skruffles suspected Mizzy and Zindy day 1 and 2 but again “vote someone else because nothing is gonna change it” this kind of thinking is going to lynch another Townie today, IMO it is scum thinking.
(shurg) I've explained why I think you're suspicious. You have not convinced me I'm wrong. After thinking about it, and after some of Eldred's more recent posts which felt a little less scummy, I came to the conclusion that I was happier with lynching you then lynching Eldred, although I wouldn't mind either one and I think there's a good chance that the two of you are scum together.
Take a look at Yos’s post 484 and then his new post 589 he has mentions that my posting is suspicious and such but has not really gone after me or questioned me at all. Content to switch votes and lynch but not content to aggressively pursue a suspected scum???? Although Skruffs has been more aggressive towards Zindy and Mizzy he is showing the same characteristics.
You've hardly said anything of content, and now you're attacking her for posting too much content?I do find her amount of posts a little suspicious.
When you post so much it kinda discourages some to not bother reading and separating the facts from the BS. I personally am too lazy to re-read 24 pages and 115 of her long life draining posts to call her on anything. If this is an attempt to intentionally distract / dissuade / and overwhelm then she has completely beaten me. My belief of her possible scuminess is more of a gut feeling and if it boils down to a town win I will waste a day of my life to analyze all of her posts and interactions.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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hasdgfas, I still would like you to explain why you would see a mod post saying we have half a week until deadline and your reaction is to actually attack me for trying to encourage people to vote, and to tell me we have "pleanty of time". Why aren't you voting, exactally? Do you really think that you not voting for anyone right now is the correct pro-town move for you to do in this situation?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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You're pretty much completly wrong there. There was one thing that could have prevented a Capi lynch, and that would have been Capi defending himself, and I did everything I could to ask, to cajole, to pressure, and to threaten him in order to do that. If he wasn't going to defend himself, then the 3 people already voting for him weren't likely to leave the wagon, and without those 3 the odds of us sucessfully putting together a good wagon on someone else within the time constraits were slim to none.Rotten Snitch wrote:I'm more wondering about Yos's statements. I looked back at the previous day's voting. Yos states that he would be happier with my lynch and then moves his vote to Capri. He then states yesterday and today he did not want to lynch Capri but it was an inevitable wagon and nothing was going to change it. Although during this whole time you did nothing to try to change it. You went along with it and badgered Capri to defend himself and so on to justify your vote.
Anyway, I already explained all of this. If you really care about why I voted capi, go back and respond to that post. But it looks more like you're just trying to attack me because I'm attacking you, you're trying to find some kind of leverage you can use to undermine here, and that makes me think you're scum.
And what were you doing at the time, exactally? Were you trying to get a different wagon going? Were you trying to convince us Capi was a bad lynch? Were you trying to get the town to change directions? No. You weren't voting anyone at all. You were making vauge, wishy washy statements like this:In the end you voted him because he was the easier lynch. That is not town thinking.
Where you said that you like the case againsst Capi, but that it was "too soon" to be asking for a roleclaim; where you said that he was acting "odd", but you didn't have enough meta on him to know if that meant anything or not. Basically it looks to me like you were happy with a Capi lynch (after all, you did just say you "agreed" with the case on him) but you didn't want to be directly associated with it yourself.Rotten Snitch wrote:Some of my thoughts now that I am back. Again I apologize for being gone, if anyone has been to Ft. Polk, LA they will agree that my week sucked
Anyway, I have done a partial read through and some things have come to my attention.
I will agree that Capri is a little odd in his posting. I have never played with Capri so I can’t say if this is usual or not. I do not really like his post 293
I agree with everyone else in that this was a horrible waste of time.pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concluders
I DISLIKE how you are asking if Capri has claimed. We have been making the deadline so far each time and as far as I know. In post 347 you are looking for a claim and it is no where near the chopping block for Capri yet.
I LIKE: his case he has presented on Capri and I agree with most of it. I just think the above point is a little off-ish, too soon to be asking for a roleclaim.
Mizzy I don’t like your WIFOM in post 323. You jumped down my throat so far you could touch my harbles for WIFOM. Yet it is ok when you do it because you are aware and saying so? It is still WIFOM and very two-faced. Muddying up the waters…..
Y your post 412 agrees with my previous posting on Skruffs defending me to bring it up against me later. I also agree that he could be fencing with everyone to stir up the pot later. Although I have to admit it is just the way Skruffs is. Damn him!
And then you said this:
Where you seem to AGREE that a Capi lynch was pretty much inevitable (I'm assuming that's what you meant for saying that you doubt the wagon will swing, right?) and say attack Capi was not being active enough (basically, for not defending himself, right?)Rotton Snitch wrote: Post......
I hate to say it I agree.
with a deadline being strung out this is getting difficult as people lose interest in posting to keep it alive. I doubt with a 24 hour deadline the wagon will swing.
Capri you really should be active right now.
So everything that I've said today, everything that you're now trying to claim is scummy, you apparently agreed with at the time. And you certanly never did anything that looked like you were trying to find a better wagon yesterday, or gave any sign that you thought the capi wagon was bad, or anything. It looks like you didn't really care if there was a capi lynch or a no-lynch, that either one would be fine with you.
confirm vote:Rotton Snitch
Seriously, why is no one else voting for this guy here?
Were you doing anything to try to change the wagon? It dosn't look like it to me.I believe Andy's hammer was essential because we were at a point that we were posting just to keep day 1 from deadlining. But when Yos voted Capri there was still good conversation. The bandwagon could have been changed.
Pro-town people need to be willing to agree, to compromise, and to come together to form a consensess. I am still convinced that based on what I knew, everything I did yesterday was the best pro-town move i could do at the time I did it.I'm almost convinced that Yos was just setteling for one of the two townies and didnt really care. There was a wagon and an deadline and he felt comfortable switching his vote although I was a more favorite scum choice for him.
Although you're right about one thing; I should have trusted my gut instint more and attacked you harder yesterday before settling on the Capi wagon, because I'm increasingly certain you're scum.
A valid case? You look scummy, you feel scummy, and have done so all game. Your actions involving the Capi wagon feel scummy, as I explained above, and they certanly contradict the argument you're trying to make against me now. I've seen basically no sign so far that you've done anything to try to help the town accomplish anything. You're attacking me for things I've already explained, and doing so while totally ignoring the explinations I've already made.I also want to know why you still havent put a valid case on me day 2?
Besides, even without all that, at this stage in the game a gut feeling is enough. If everyone who's pro-town should be voting right now for whomever they think is most likely to be scum, and I think they should, then people should be willing to do that even if it's just based on a gut feeling.
Hiding behind my vote on you? Why would I have to "hide" behind any vote, when almost no one else is voting at all?Are you hiding behind your vote on me waiting for another bandwagon to jump on?
And no, I'm not "looking for another bandwagon to jump on". I'm always open to be convinced, but right now, I'm pretty sure today we need lynch you.
Is that supposed to be attack on me?Or even the deadline? You do seem pushy to start a bandwagon before deadline.
Why AREN'T you pushy to start a bandwagon before deadline? Why weren't you yesterday?
Um, yeah, deadline lynches aren't as good as lynches where you have more time, and that's WHY we need to start bandwagoning NOW. Actually, we should have started bandwagoning people like a week ago, but now's better then nothing.Is it easier to get a townie lynched on a deadline bandwagon like yesterday buddy?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In this situation, I think it is anti-town to not vote, yeah. Figure out who you think is most likely to be scum, and put a vote on them. If it's a tie between two or three people, then vote for one of them and be willing to change your mind.hasdgfas wrote: Why am I not voting? I can't decide whom to vote for right now. I was going to vote Mizzy, but I've seen other things today that make me think differently. It's not an anti-town move necessarily to not vote.
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In this situation, I do think it is anti-town to not be voting right now, although since almost everyone is doing it it's not really a huge black mark against you at the moment. Basically, look back at the game, figure out who you think is most likely to be scum, and vote for that person. Give an explination if you can, or vote on gut if you can't. If it's a tie between two or three people, vote for one of them.
Basically, we really need to be focusing right now on figuring out who we want to lynch today. That needs to be the focus. And in order to do that, people have to start taking positions.
If nothing else, if all we're doing is the free-floating vauge type of discussion that's characterised most of today, then that makes it a lot easier for scum to hide, since they don't really need to commit to anything.
Continue your discussion with Mizzy about the Capi lynch if you want, but you also need to start trying to figure out who you, personally, think needs to die today.
We can try, but that seems like a real gamble to me to count on us being able to do that indefinatly. What happens when just too many people happen to not get online on some random Sunday? Then we randomally no-lynch, and we start off tommorow in exactally the same place, with exactally the same information, but one less good guy and possibly with less chances to lynch the scum because we wasted one.The reason we still have plenty of time is the fact that the deadline mechanic just means we have to talk in order to not no-lynch. We can make this day as long as we want it to be by talking.
Towns that accidently no-lynch (basically, that just fail to lynch) generally seem to do very poorly from that point on in my experence; they get demoralized, people start posting less, the game starts to seem pointless to everyone, and it's basically a downhill slide from there into an ignoramous "scum won because town couldn't get their act together" type of loss. That's been my experence in the past; look at how the town completly fell apart in Lights Out II after failing to lynch one of the days for example.
I understand that we're probably going to go into "extra innings" again today, and that's ok, but we don't want to stay in that precarious state for too long, we certanly don't want to try and count on our ability to stay in that state for long.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, if you thought he was a better lynch at that moment then anyone else seemed to be, you should have voted for him. Period. If you thought someone else would be a better lynch, then you should have been voting for them. The town wins by lynching, and no lynch is ever 100% accurate on day one, to even think it should be is absurd; you just have to do your best.Rotten Snitch wrote:I was in agreement with the reasoning for the Capri lynch but am against your motives. I did not know the alignment of Capri and when I agreed that he should be more active it was a truthful comment. I did not place my vote because I did not believe he was scum 100%. I do not know the reasons for his inactivity but it did seem as though he was avoiding the majority.
The fact that you were semi-suppoting the wagon, using wishy washy posts and vauge comments, but never actually joined it, makes me think you're probably scum, since that's a common way for scum to act; they want to lynch a townie, but they don't want to get their own hands dirty in the process.
And yeah, it did seem he was avoiding answering questions, and I was trying to force him to do so. That was the whole point.
What the hell? I DON'T WANT A DEADLINE WAGON ON DAY 2. I WANT TO LYNCH SOMEONE BEFORE WE GET TO THAT POINT IF POSSIBLE. People who aren't voting apparently want us to go to a deadline wagon; either that or they want a no-lynch, which is even worse.What I am attacking you for is the deadline wagon you want day 2.
Or, is it just that you're attacking me because I think you're scum? Because that's what it looks like.
If "everyone" thinks there's no reason to even start to put a wagon together right now, then "everyone" is wrong. How does it help us to sit around and twiddle our thumbs for another week or two or three without doing anything?Everyone else has discussed the mechanics of the deadline and all have agreed that as long as we have conversation, then there is no reason to rush a band wagon.
We got in that situation on day 1 because no one was willing to commit to a bandwagon until we were like a week past deadline.I feel as if we rush a bandwagon then we will be stuck in the same situation as day 1.
IF you don't think you should be lynched, then you need to convince me you're town, or convince me that someone else is scummier then you are. This whole "Oh we shouldn't be bandwagoning anyone because bandwagons might lead to town lynches" thing you're trying to do here is not helping your case.
Uh, what? If Capi had defended himself well, I would have left the wagon and found someone I thought looked scummier. He probably would not have been lynched in that case.You can say "There was one thing that could have prevented a Capri lynch, and that would have been Capri defending himself" Well Capri defending himself does not mean he will not be lynched, you were using that as an excuse to join the wagon.
Anyway, you don't need an "excuse" to join a wagon. Random lynch is better then a no-lynch, so you should almost always be voting for someone, especally when a deadline is approaching, and you need to be willing to join a wagon even if you're not 100% sure of it if it seems to be the only way the town is likely to get a lynch. That's how a pro-town person should act. Note that that is NOT how you acted; my actions during the Capi wagon, while not perfect, were more helpful to the town then anything you've done all game.
If you defend yourself well, if convince me you're town, then yes, I'll stop voting for you, absolutly I will. You certanly haven't convinced me you're town yet, in fact your reactions so far have made me more convinced of your scumminess then anything, but it's possible you'll change my mind, people often do.Let me ask you this: if you start a wagon on me and I defend myself will you continue to push it? Or are these just empty words to defend yourself from yesterday?
Of course, I'm more suspicious of you then I ever was of Capi, so your job there is a lot harder then his would have been, but it's in your best interest to try at this point.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Newb, yeah, but more likely newb scum then newb town I think. His day 1 stuff was very wishy washy and noncomittal, makes me feel like he wanted to support the Capi wagon without being a part of it, and the only time he's done anything day 2 has been generally in response to being attacked, and none of it really feels right to me.Zindaras wrote: A quick skim of Yossy's case on Snitch doesn't really convince me, I'm mostly getting complete newb vibes from him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, I'm a bit confused by exactally how this works; the days are going to be 11pm-11pm, and we need 6 people to post between that time? Except today it's 8pm saturday-11pm sunday we need 6 people?Ether wrote:For this dayphase, deadline checks will be made at 8:00 pm Eastern instead of 11:00 pm. (8:00 pm Eastern = starting now.) Starting right now as opposed to giving you a 21-hour extension would be harmless, I think, but Ididsay today's deadline would be made at 11, and I wouldn't want a switch to affect you.
So, um, if I see five posts after this, I'll edit this post into a deadline cutscene. Proceed.
Anyway, mostly just posting to try and make sure we have 6 people posting in the Sunday time-frame, if I understand that right.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, what? Why should I join a wagon on someone I'm not that suspicious of, when I think I have a pretty good idea is scum is sitting right here?Rotten Snitch wrote:Yos - Maybe you dont see it but I really don't think you have come up with a damning enough case on me. You are so desparate for a day 1 repeat so try the bandwagon on someone that has a few vote on them already.
Thats what you did yesterday.
BTW, I don't really care if you don't think the case against you is "damning enough". It's the best thing I have to go on right now, and I think it's pretty good, so that's what I'm going with. Convince me my case is wrong, or convince me someone else is a better lynch today then you are, and I'll move my vote. This kind of post, though, is not helping your case.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Again, yeah, I probably should have pushed harder to lynch you yesteday, since you're scum. But again, if you have a problem with the way I acted yesterday, go back and respond to the post where i explained why I acted the way I acted yesterday. I really laid it out there in great detail; and strangly, you didn't say a word about my behavior yesterday until I started attacking you. And you keep trying to make obliqe references to the bandwagon yesterday in order to defend yourself here, which is odd, since the way I'm acting today (IE: just pushing for your lynch and not joining the wagon) is the way you're attacking me for NOT acting yesteday.Rotten Snitch wrote:So your actions yesterday were not proof enough? You were suspicious of me yesterday and yet you jumped on the Capri wagon to "get him to defend himself" Yet he didnt and you stayed voting him. He hung and you went back to me.
That's not "all I have said". And no, you're not arguring against my case on you, you're trying to confuse the issue of the wagon on you with the the issue of the Capi wagon yesterday.Again I'm arguing your actual case on me. All you have said is that I give off scumminess.
Look, we're going to lynch someone today. Right now, I'm pretty sure it should be you. If you want to change my mind, athen you need to either convince me I'm wrong about you, or convince me that someone else is a better lynch for today then you are. That's how mafia works.Convince you someone else is scummy so you can move to their case? Why so you can use someone else's accusations to get another townie lynched?
And by the way, why are you assuming that whoever you'd make a case against would be a "townie"?
Accusing you but not accusing you? No, I'm pretty much just accusing you. Here, watch:You have been accusing me but not accusing me all game.
YOU ARE SCUM. SCUM SCUM SCUM. DIE SCUM DIE.
There, you see? This is me accusing you.
No, I'm trying to get other people to follow me so we can lynch a scum. Not really sure what you mean about "trying to get others to come up with a case on you". I think I've already given got more then enough reason to lynch you, I don't really need anyone else to make a case against you.You have been trying to get others to come up with a case on me so you can piggy back.
So, you're voting me beacuse I haven't suceeded in lynching you yet?Yet in two whole days you have not actually come up with a case on me that would sway the other townies onto your deadline bandwagon.
Vote: Yosarian2
Also note the possible slip there with that "other" townies comment. I guess you already know I'm pro-town, right?
Uh, everyone should be making cases now, yeah. But I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "guilt free"; today, I think we need to lynch you, and I'm becoming more and more convinced you're going to come up scum so I'm not really worried about "guilt".For trying to get others to make cases so you can join your deadline bandwagon guilt free. (for reference see Capri's lynch)I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I have made a case, Rotton Snitch. I think the way you behaved around the Capi wagon yesterday, supporting it in wishy washy terms but not joining it, is just the way I would expect a scum in your position to act. And, to top it off, after you tried to push that wagon without being on it, now you're attacking me for being on it. It's pretty much a textbook example of scum behavior.
Also, you've done very little all game that looks designed to help the town, you've mostly only acted in response to being attacked yoursef. Everything you've done all game feels off-kilter and self serving. Frankly, that'd be more then enough reason already for me to want to lynch you, is just the vibe I'm getting from your posts in general
And rather then respond to my accusations against you, you OMGUS attack me instead, and continue to ignore what I've said and pretend that I'm attacking you for no reason. I've explained why I voted for Capi yesterday, and you keep either misrepresenting or ignoring everything I've said. And yet, you never had a problem with my attsck on or my vote for Capi yesterday, and you didn't have a problem with it today, UNTIL I started attacking you in earnest, at which point you apparently started looking for something to attack me with. Again, that's the way a scum acts; a mafia member dosn't care about finding scum, obveously, but he needs to look like he's trying to find scum, so instead of actually looking for scum a mafia member often tries to get people lynched who look like a threat to him; or if he can't get them lynched, he tries to discredit them. And again, even besides that, the way you've tried to defend yourself feels scummy; instead of responding to my points, you ignore them, try to confuse the issue, and pretend I haven't made any point, and try to attack me in any way you can think of.
The thing you seem to not be getting is that the reason I wanted Capi to defend himself was so I could figure out his alignment. You can tell a lot about someone's alignment based on how they defend themselves. And right now, your defense feels like that of a scum who knows I'm right and so is trying to do everything but answer the valid points I have raised against him.
You have not done one single thing yet this game that feels pro-town to me. Nothing you've done looks or feels like a real attempt to find scum. You're very when under attack but when you're not under attack you're quiet. Basically, you act like I normally expect mafia members to act.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Rotten Snitch wrote: Yosarian2: I think I have already presented my case about Yos and right now I do think he is very scummy. He counters accusing me of an OMGUS vote. He has been voting me all game and making snips to get the attention back on me. I have noticed this since the beginning of day two when he dropped his vote on me again. He has been climbing up my scum ladder ever since my idea about the Skruffs Mizzy Zindy possibilities and now that I have voted him he comes in and calls me out for OMGUS. Basically saying that I would not be allowed to ever vote him because it would be an OMGUS vote as long as he was accusing me.
Your vote against me looks like OMGUS, because you seem to have been very intentionally voting for me and attacking me INSTEAD OF responding to my case against you. You are trying to attack me in order to avoid having to defend yourself. That's what makes it an OMGUS attack, and that's very, very scummy.
And no, you really haven't given any kind of case against me that makes sense. You keep making vauge and incorrect statements about my motives during the Capi lynch without explaining why you're attributing those motives to me, you ignore about 75% of the statements I make (I assume because you know I'm right and can't respond to them), but the key thing is that if you found my Capi vote scummy, YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID SO AT THE TIME. At the time, you seemed to be totally in favor of people voting Capi; you only tried to attack me for that after I started seriously attacking you today, and from all appearences, because I started seriously attacking you today.
I really need some other people to explain why they're not voting for RS here, because he seems so incredibly obv scum to me, I don't understand why I'm the only guy voting for him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Um, RS, I'm pretty sure that that first mod post was just flavor; I highly doubt that Ether was giving us any information through thoses night scenes.Rotten Snitch wrote:Skruffs the fact that she was outside my doorstep meant I could not have done anything to her.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Zindaras wrote:Yosarian: I'm not voting Rotten Snitch right now because I'm getting a lot of newbie-vibes from him, rather than newbie-scum-vibes. I'll reread about your argument soon. Would you care to offer your opinion on Snitch's other opinions, though?
Zindy: Yeah, I know that you had already at least given your reason for not voting RS yet, and I appriciate that; I was mostly asking everyone else, since most people haven't commented at all on my case here yet.
But sure, I'll comment on his analysis:
His comments on Skurffs remind me of his comments on Capi yesterday; very wishy washy; it feels like he wants to encourage others to vote Skruffs but dosn't really want to do it himself, with comments like
I disagree with him on Eldred, I'm not really sure why he says he has a pro-town read on him.If he was right here in front of me playing a meat world game I would have probably voted him but I am still undecided yet
I really dislike his stance on Mizzy; again, it's a wishy-washy "attack but I don't know" kind of thing. I especally hate his last line, which was
I don't see how Mizzy and Skruffs' bickering implies that "one or both of them must be scum"; in fact, I think there's a decent chance that they're both pro-town.Rotton Snitch wrote:I am leaning towards scum only because the constant bickering between her and Skruffs. One of them in my opinion must be scum or both.
He pretty much just asks you why you're not voting Skruffs, that's about all he has to say about you here. Which i guess is a reasonable question, but it also fits into the "trying to support a Skruffs bandwagon without being on it" vibe I got from his Skruffs comments earlier.
He says he has mixed feelings from Y; concludes that he has a "townish feel" from him. (shrug)
Tends to think hasdgfas is most likely pro-town. Now that, I tend to agree with, actually.
Ends up voting Andy for lurking. Again, (shrug). I'm never opposed to a good lurker hunt.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, I think you could be town, even though I disagree with a lot of what you've done and said so far, because I've seen you act as town in a way similar to how you've acted in this game. It's nothing I'm confident about, becuase I can't recall playing with you often when you were scum and so I don't really have a feel for what your scum meta is, but I don't think you're epsecaly scummy at the moment.Skruffs wrote: Secondly: You seem to be implying, at least, that you think it's possible me and Mizzy are both town. IS this based on analysis of me in this game or because of meta of how I act in other games, or am I going too far in saying that you think I Am town?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Huh? I know this was not your main point, but that line confused me; lately, I've actually had the feeling Y might be trying to protect Rotton Snitch.Skruffs wrote:. If I am lynched and show as town, you still won't be interested in the lines of suspicion of ANY of the players I suggested - instead you will be going after Rotten Snitch, regardless of my alignment.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Y: You've never commented directly about RS or about my case on RS; about the only time you've said anything about him were comments implying that he might be town.
Y wrote:I don't know about RS, but Skruffs did get my attention for being weird and irrelevant.
And then when I asked you to clarify, you just said:Y wrote:I think Skruffs is the best lynch. I really can't decide between Yos and RS. I'm not ruling out the possibility of both of them being town, fighting each other blindly.
Which feels a bit iffy to me, like you're trying to avoid actually comitting yourself to anything. I note that whenever you discribe my attacks on RS, you so so in such a way as to imply that me and RS are about equally scummy, which might be something you're trying to subtly suggest to the town , while I tend to thing the truth is more like "Yos made a logical case against RS, RS OMGUSed him back".Y wrote:
Nope. I'm not sure about the situation, therefore I don't want to ignore that possibility, which I believe no one pointed until now.Yosarian2 wrote:
You really think that's the most likely possibility here, Y?Y wrote:I really can't decide between Yos and RS. I'm not ruling out the possibility of both of them being town, fighting each other blindly.
You could also be two scum distancing, but it seems to me that if you were, you probably crossed the line attacking each other.
Also, the whole "Oh, they might both be town" thing seems wierd to bring up unless you've actually got some kind of gut feeling or something that makes you think that's a real possibility; especally as most people right now aren't voting for either of us, I don't think it's likely that's something that no one's brought up.
Basically, none of that is anything really solid, it could easily be offhand comments on your part, but it's enough to make me think that if RS does come up as scum I'll want to take a closer look at you tommorow.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah, you do keep saying that, and that's exactally the thing that's giving me a wierd vibe. You keep trying to equate my attacks against RS and his attacks against me, in such a way that seems likely to get other people to kind of overlook the whole thing and move on to something else; perhaps I'm biased, but that dosn't seem fair at all to me, I really don't understand how you can look at my attacks on him and his OMGUSy reasonses and say "Oh well, look at those two go at it, I wonder which one is scummy".Y wrote:I'm saying that I can understand both of you and your accusations, and I'm not sure yet who is scummier.
ANd I realize that in this post you do mention that you think RS is a little scummier then me, but that was only after I called you on it and suggested a possible link.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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You realize that dosn't make any sense, right? Pro-town people will and should be trying to pick apart other people's posts to figure out who's scum and to make cases against them. "Picking apart your posts" is hardly a scumtell.Rotten Snitch wrote: Again not using you as an excuse I am using you as an example, my posts have been picked apart by You and Yos to be exact. Which is also why I have been suspicious of you two.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Uh, I explained what I was doing there about a dozen times. And no, I wasn't "just trying to get Capi to offer a defense"; we NEEDED him to offer a defense, because I was NOT going to explain HIS actions for him before he explained them for himself. And if you actually look, I spent a LONG time trying to get some kind of reaction out of him before finally voting him.eldarad wrote: For Day 2, Yos takes over from Mizzy, although he did do a little bit of groundwork late on Day 1 with his insistence that the Capri wagon was the only game in town (although he also says that he was trying to get Capri to offer a defence).
I never said that. I never implied that. I never even thought that. I just said that that post of yours looked scummy, and it did.Once the debate between Mizzy and I starts to hot up, Yos positions himself to create an either/or situation. Once I vote for Mizzy:
His next post goes a step further with a vote based on 'gut.' But, to me, it just looks like he's trying to produce a situation where townies think 'well, either Mizzy or Eldarad are scum, so we should lynch one of them'Yos wrote:fos:eldredDidn't like that last post of his.
Here is the post in question:
That was scummy for several reasons:eldarad wrote:
So your reasoning for Capri being town is that he was too stupid to be scum? Since when was intelligence linked to alignment?Mizzy wrote:I said that his play(s) was/were town to me; I have a very strong pro-towner read on him. I couldn't see a scum playing the way he did, and maybe it's just me but the case on him was so weak, there's no way I'd back something like that.
Now you're implying that everyone on the Capri wagon was settling for a mislynch. That gives you scope to attack everyone on that wagon for mislynching.Mizzy wrote:And what, I'm supposed to just be okay with a probable mislynch just because we have strict deadlines? I know a no-lynch is horrible but I don't want us settling for mislynches either.
I was trying to lynch scum yesterday.
Most people were trying to lynch scum yesterday.
You were trying to stay out of trouble yesterday.
Yes you are. Every post you've made today has been criticising the Capri wagon, criticising the people on the Capri wagon, bemoaning our lynch of a poor innocent villager...Mizzy wrote:And yes, while I feel that my hands are clean, I'm also not holding it over anyone's head.
Really? You think that refusing to provide a defence constitutes a valid defence? Or is this just another excuse to attack the Capri wagon?Mizzy wrote:Well, the argument that Capri didn't try to shake his wagon is a bit of a cop-out reason for things, if you ask me. Just because the person you're beating on doesn't fight back, it doesn't make it okay to beat on them.
vote Mizzy
1. It seemed like in every single part of your post, you delibratly warp and twist what Mizzy is trying to say. Like, she said "He wasn't playing like I would expect a scum to play like", which is a perfectly reasonable argument, and you respond with"So your reasoning for Capri being town is that he was too stupid to be scum?" which isn't anything like what she said. And you keep doing that, over and over again in that post; the whole post just gives off a bad vibe because of the amount of misrepresentng you crammed into it. She never said that "everyone on the capi wagon was heading out for a mislynch".
2. You seem to be making excuses for your own actions, in a scummy kind of way that feels off to me.
3. You seem to be attacking her, because she didn't like a bandwagon on day 1 that turned out to be a bad bandwagon, and because she said so again on day 2. This whole thing feels like a pre-emptive strike on your part, like you were trying to undermine her in order to protect yourself from her attacking you, which again is scummy.
4. And while it's a minor point, something about the phrase "bemoning the loss of a poor, innocent villager" just sets off alarm bells in my head; it just feels like something a defensive scum would say in that situation
So when I said your post was scummy, when I voted for you, it had nothing to do with any kind of "well, either eldred or Mizzy is scum". It was because you looked hella scummy, combined with me thinking that if there was scum on the Capi wagon, that you came off looking worse then anyone else on the wagon. I would have been glad to explain it to you then, but interestingly, you never asked why I suspected you back then, you just seemed to accept my comment that your post was scummy.
And again, you're not making any sense here. Rotton Snitch has always been a suspect of mine. The fact that Skruffs attacked him as well is hardly even relevent, considering that I don't really agree with Skruff's logic on the case and considering that Skruffs has attacked something like 4 or 5 people so far and I don't really agree with as far as any of the other people he's attacked go.Unfortunately for Yos, the debate kinda died down and other debates kept on going despite his intervention. But that's OK, because the Skruffs-Rotten Snitch still provided a possibility for a either Skruffs or Rotten Snitch lynch decision, based on Day 1 and - to a lesser extent - Today.
Correct. I wasn't fond of the Mizzy wagon then, and I'm not fond of it now, mostly because there's not really a case for lynching Mizzy that makes sense to me.So...Yos thinks we NEED to bandwagon someone. But he dislikes the Mizzy wagon.
Yup. And I still do. I still think there's a very high chance that the mafia in this game is (Eldrarad, Rotton Snitch, +one other), and I'd be quite happy lynching either of you.Instead, he thinks we should lynch either Rotten Snitch or Eldarad, and changes his vote from me to RS for emphasis.
Yup. We needed to bandwagon then, and we need to bandwagon now.Another exhortation to bandwagon, but he doesn't want to get too far off-message
[quite[Mentions again how we are racing against the deadline clock, and is next vote confirm-votes RS.
The rest of Yos' posts Today are attacking RS, but he also pulls up other people who attempt to suggest that RS might be town (Y, for example).[/quite]
Well, if I think someone might be linked to my main suspect, I'll mention it, sure. I won't act on it until I definatly find out RS's alignment, but it's still a good way to get reactions out of people now to use later, and it's worth mentioning now just in case I get nightkilled tonight. So, what's wrong with that?
Uh...I'm trying to get people to bandwagon people that I think are scum. I've never "tried to limit coversations" at all, and I'm willing to go elsewhere if the case merits it, but so far it hasn't.This focus on (trying to) limit conversation/bandwagons to a small number of people suggests to me that Yos is scum trying to use the deadline mechanic to his advantage.
Why, because I'm attacking your scumbuddy?So I'm going to start a shiny new bandwagon
vote Yosarian
Care to humor us and actually respond to my case, and explain what you don't like about it?Eldred wrote:On top of that, I find Yos' case on RS totally unconvincing, and I now believe it has only been pushed to further the 'either/or' agenda.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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