Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[SlySly]

Someone's hunch is without merit. Pretty much been on unexpected V\LA, will contribute more soon after a read through.

[SlySly]

The Meaty Post...

I apologize to all for my absence. Real life has been throwing me some curveballs as of late and I have been doing my very best to get a good bead on each and everyone of them. Unfortunately, having to bat these unwanted and unexpected pitches, these balls have severely eaten in to my ability to post and stay on top of my Mafia games. In fact, I requested to be and was replaced in a game just last week due to my time constraints at the time. Things have lightened up tremendously and I should now have the time required to contribute to my games as is expected.

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@Lord hur

I am not a fan of early role speculation. It appears you are of the newbie variety so you not understanding how early role speculation gives the scum a great advantage might be somewhat understandable.

Lurking is sometimes not lurking. This is very much the case for a player who has never posted in the game. You have absolutely no way of knowing if that player is lurking or just not around to contribute therefore is a null tell. I would find a player that popped in every now and then just to throw down a quick vote or FoS then fall back into lurk mode much more suspicious than I would a player that has never posted.

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@Mr. Stoofer

I find your Post 30 suspicious. This post puts the pressure on a newb to elaborate on role setup very early in the game. This action, IMO, is one only scum would partake in. Taking your legendary mafia status into consideration, which I am drawing on from the posted context of some of your apparent fans in this game, I find the action even more scummy than I would from a newb or relative newb. If your legend is well earned, you are well aware that early role speculation is very anti-town and pro-scum.

You are overly defensive in Post 32 and top it off with an OMGUS vote on tVoD.

In post 89, you falsely accuse tVoD of jumping on a bandwagon, a bandwagon that only exists in your scummy imagination, that only he was a part of, seeing how he was the ONLY person voting on that person at that time. He very clearly pointed this out to you. I couldn't help but notice how you have conveniently avoided commenting on it.

I like how in Post 96 you buddy up to Guardian and then continue on in Post 105 to make it known that you support your new buddy's idea of voting off someone that hasn't posted. That is rather oppotunistic, especially how you had called for such in depth investigations and reasoning behind each of tVoD's FoS's. You gave absolutely no reason for your voting suggestions. Then again you call for my lynch in Post 131 still having no reason for it. I'm sure it will be very entertaining watching you "try" to convince everyone that your actions so far have been in any way pro-town.

I hope I read through fast enough for you.


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@tVoD

Other than your early heat on Mr. Stoofer, I have not seen major contributions from you in this game. I initially got pro-town vibes from you but as the game goes on, I get the feeling that you may be breeding confusion. Confusion breeding is not pro-town. I am not convinced you are purposely doing this, but the possibility remains.

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@hasdgfas

I agree with your Post 50. Pointing out scumminess is pro-town.

Your Post 82 is right on. Shin does redeem himself later, though. Ah, the power of discussion.

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@Guardian

Have you played a game with me before using a different name? You seem awfully fixated on me, from your very first post all the way up to your very recent, and very insistent that I am scum with absolutely no reason for such claim.

Your Post 92 is among the most ridiculous posts I have ever read. You go so far as to actually try to build a serious case against someone for an obvious joke from the random stage. It was seriously entertaining but I hope you don't seriously think you have convinced anyone of such ridiculousness.

Could you please point out the scummy behaviour of mine that lead to your FoS on me in Post 92?

I hope rubbing up to your scum buddy in Post 97 was all you had hoped it would be.

The only group I am a part of is the town. I had nothing to do with 007's death and I assume no one else in the town did either.

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@HackerHuck

Your initial defense of Mr. Stoofer in Post 58 had me a little suspicious. Your posting since then, especially your Post 100, have seemed much more pro-town. As mentioned earlier in this post, more discussion is a very pro-town thing. Things have a tendency to work themselves out in a mix.

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@Shin

Your Post 117 is very pro-town. How can anyone argue with wanting to further discuss things to make the most informed voting decision?

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@Musher33, Singing Librarian, PyroDwarf

From all of your posts combined, not one thing jumped out at me from any of your posts worth commenting on. If I have missed something important, please point it out to me and please don't take this post as my dismissing any of your contributions as I am not intending it that way.

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After reading the discussion, it seems obvious to me that the following are well justified.

vote: Mr. Stoofer

HoS: Guardian

[SlySly]

@Musher

Honestly, at the moment, I am more interested in hearing why Mr. Stoofer called tVoD's lone vote a bandwagon than I am in hearing tVoD's answers to, IMO, less important questions.

Maybe I have missed something though. Is there an important question that has been asked of tVod that has not been addressed by tVod?

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@Guardian

You and Stoofer were both buddying up to each other in the posts I pointed out. That, combined with your completely meritless suspicions of me, combined with your plentiful agreeance of many points that Stoofer has made that I disagree with are why I find you as the most likely scum buddy of Mr. Stoofer.

How is me answering your silly question with a serious answer silly?

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@Mr. Stoofer

How is it a scum tell that lord_hur appeared to have more information about the setup than others? I totally disagree with your statement about this topic in Post 152. In fact, I get the feeling that your statement is a scum tactic trying to get lord_hur to reveal more about his role to your scumminess.

Let me drum up a hypothetical for you...

Let's say lord_hur's role is Bugs Bunny and Bugs Bunny is a power role of the town that has night actions. Wouldn't lord_hur's role give him more information about the setup of the game than some of the other players in the game without lord_hur being scummy for having such role information?

Would he not know that Bugs Bunny existed where the rest of us didn't?

I'm sorry, I don't find having that kind of info as scummy.

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@PyroDwarf

I agree with your statement in 129 that non-active players are better replaced than lynched.

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@tVoD

Making eloquent post is icing on the cake. Icing is not required. What is most important is the cake.

At some point, you just have to move on from pointless babble. It sounds to me that you are stuck in a few different battles over apples and oranges that are not really relevant or helpful to the town. Just my opinion.

If you meander too much in your posting and continue to fight over things that don't really matter, that can sure make townies think you are scum trying to create confusion. I have made this same mistake in the past and got mislynched because of it. You have to remember, scum like fighting with townies over things that don't matter, especially when they think the townie is the one coming off as stupid or wrong.

I have a really hard time following some of your posts, even after re-reading them. I get the feeling I am not the only one in this game having the same problem with your posting style.

[SlySly]

@Guardian

I never said anything was intentional. Your generalizing scum buddy statement has some merit. My vote on Mr. Stoofer is enough for the moment so I will downgrade your suspicion level...

unHoS:Guardian

but, still...

IGMEOY:Guardian

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@tVoD

I understand what you are saying now.

The caption of Stoofer's quote painting, in Post 30, amounted to "I think lord_hur knows more than I do about the game setup and possibly more than the rest of the players, too." Whether or not this is a new idea, I don't care. What I want to know is the motive behind the quote painting. There are many reasons scum would do this and only a few why town would. The few town reasons I can think of would have been followed up aggressively with focus that Mr. Stoofer never even hinted at trying to deliver. He just hung these possibly town damaging quotes out on his hook like a big fat worm just waiting for anything to bite to continue his town power role fishing trip.

I get the feeling that lord_hur's newbness claim is genuine. If I didn't buy into lord_hur's newbness, I could see this exchange as some possible distancing between these two in an attempt between scum buds to get the early role speculation snowball rolling. It is not beyond possibility that lord_hur's newb-card is craftily being played out with scummy intent.

In which post can I find Mr. Stoofer's reaction to your "if it is merited is" comment?

[SlySly]

I've just done a read through on everyone and... hasdgfas is posting regularly elsewhere on the site but hasn't posted here for 3 days. In my book that is more than enough to warrant

unvote; vote:hasdgfas

.

Posting in one game and not in another does not warrant a vote in any way. There are many understandable reasons for this type of thing.

I still think thevampireofdussledorf has to die, though (if he is not scum he doesn't deserve to live).

Nice of you to so clearly state your desire to lynch tVoD even if he is town. That's mighty scummy of you.

[SlySly]

But it is not anti-Town to want to kill a player who is hurting the town regardless of their alignment.

I don't care who agrees with you, this is scum logic. Though mislynches happen, I would prefer to never lynch a townie, regardless of their play style.

Beside, tVoD is not hurting the town in any way that I can see.

[SlySly]

I'm playing by sense of smell at this point.

To me, this sounds like another way of saying, "I don't have a good reason so I am going to take a shot in the dark."

I feel like this is going to come back and bite me in the but later, and people are gonna be like "well if you were really town why weren't you trying so hard to be really townie and good and stuff?" and I don't have a good answer for that.

It seems to me that you are saying that you know you don't have a good reason for your action and you have the sense that your action is going to draw a negative response from the town.

Well, imo, if you are going to do something that will cast you in a negative light to the town, you better have a good reason and be able to answer when called on for it. If you don't do the reasonless act of negativity in the first place, the town would not have been forced to confront you for it.

Nevertheless,

unvote; vote: hasdgfas

I just have a strong intuition he's scum, I still like my case I proposed (and if you don't you can just eat it), and I don't particularly want to lynch my previous top suspects.

You have posted more than 20 times since you last mentioned, hasdgfas. Are you talking about the extremely flimsy case you presented in post 92?

That case basically said hasdgfas was scum because he used pronouns in the random stage and answered a question that was addressed for someone else and that he supposedly lead tVoD.

Well, the first 2 parts of your 'case' are a joke, at best. The 3rd part of your 'case' is an opinion that I don't share. I don't see how hasdgfas was leading at tVoD at all. Maybe I missed a post, though I doubt it. If you are not pro-town enough to quote it, you could be pro-town enough to point out the exact post number you are referring to, when making claims about others questionable play, so it is easy for the town to understand what you are talking about.

You have popped in and placed a vote on a person that I believe to have contributed many pro-town posts throughout the game, using a very old case against him, that you have not mentioned in a long time, while knowing that you are going to be V\LA for some time.

This to me is a VERY scummy action. You had almost cleared yourself of any suspicion in my mind and then you go and pull this. Mr. Stoofer's consistent scumminess is the only thing keeping my vote off of you.

FoS:Guardian

[SlySly]

HackerHuck,

Do you think it is scummy when a player avoids answering questions?

[SlySly]

Usually. Are you implying that I've been avoiding your questions?

Not at all.

Read my posts and see who I have asked questions of and who has avoided answering those question and I think you will see things in a better light.

It is not only my answers that one of the people in question has avoided answering.

[SlySly]

Sly: I'm curious. Why are you asking Huck in particular this question?

Because he pointed out that I was attacking and voting for the people that he saw in a scum light and then turned around and invalidly voted for me. I took that as him inferring my voting and suspicions were without merit. So, I wanted to know if he felt that question avoidance was scummy.

slysly, who hasn't been answering questions?

Mr. Stoofer for one and you for two. Do you really think "Oh Snap!" was a contributing answer post in response to my question to you?

[SlySly]

I don't like how you are pussyfooting around my question.

You have only asked me one question and I answered it directly. There was no pussy footing around.

I always try to answer questions, so if there is one I haven't answered I have obviously missed it so you need to repeat it.

You have repeatedly 'obviously missed' questions from multiple players. It is not our duty to keep repeating questions for you to avoid. It shouldn't take 3 reminders to get you to answer something.

[SlySly]

Here is a question for you: list every question I have failed to answer.

Since you insist...

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What bandwagon is this. I am the only one to have a vote on lord_hur at the moment as everyone else unvoted, how is this a band wagon.

Mr Stoofer why do you wish to have on record you want to lynch someone who has not posted yet in this game?

@Mr Stoofer do you wish to comment on my post or would you rather ignore it?

Why was it a new point that lord_hur was scummy?
What is of more pointitude is what makes him appear to have more information, appear to be in the informed minority; appear to be scummy?

@Mr Stoofer why do you think I am hurting town.........please explain this

Ok, I dont deserve to live thank you kind sir but by your explanation you were happy to let me live another day if someone else who (you deem) deserves also not to live would be easier to lynch?

Also where did hasfgad stand on your list when you voted for him and where does he stand now?

I conceded you a point on that, is that terribly wrong?

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Would he not know that Bugs Bunny existed where the rest of us didn't?

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At least you didn't ignore this one, you just didn't answer it. I would like you to answer it when you get a chance.

Why?

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Stoofer, what are you talking about with guardian? Are you trying to imply that you have more information than the town?

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Is it because Guardian didn't explicitly "insist"? Or is it because he wanted to just get off the issue? Or is there another reason?

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Trying to save Guardian much?

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These are reminders that you never answered post 90.

In post 89, you falsely accuse tVoD of jumping on a bandwagon, a bandwagon that only exists in your scummy imagination, that only he was a part of, seeing how he was the ONLY person voting on that person at that time. He very clearly pointed this out to you. I couldn't help but notice how you have conveniently avoided commenting on it.

Honestly, at the moment, I am more interested in hearing why Mr. Stoofer called tVoD's lone vote a bandwagon than I am in hearing tVoD's answers to, IMO, less important questions

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184 posts later and you finally take the time to answer post 90.

Now, to answer tvod's question: a bandwagon consists of more than just votes. When I said that you were joining lor_hur's bandwagon (or whatever I said), I meant that you were joining in with those who were attacking him.

I, for one, have never heard anyone call attacks a bandwagon unless it was backed up with a vote. You are really reaching with this.

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I hope my list is comprehensive enough for you, Mr. Stoofer. I hope I haven't missed any.

[SlySly]

Why is it suspicious for us to not answer questions?

It gives the impression that you don't want to answer the question(s) to avoid incriminating yourself.

In the real world, people miss questions.

Also, in the real world, scum avoid answering questions.

[SlySly]

Why is it suspicious for us to not answer questions?

It gives the impression that you don't want to answer the question(s) to avoid incriminating yourself.

In the real world, people miss questions.

Also, in the real world, scum avoid answering questions.

Granted,

consistently missing questions can be indicative of ulterior motives

, but on a case by case basis, missing a question the first time it is asked, especially in a larger post, is nothing to fuss about, and is solved by repeating the question.

Selective quoting for the loss.

fos: SlySly

Oh Snap!!

Not.

You are too much, Guardian. The part I left out was the part where you validated my opinion because I really wasn't seeking your approval of my opinions because your scumminess is already obvious and I am not trying to get scum on my side. Thanks for pointing it out, though. Now others can see that you do, in fact, agree with my opinion whether you admit it to yourself, or not.

I know he's your scum buddy and all, but do you find Stoofer suspicious, even in the slightest, for letting 184 posts pass before answering something brought up to him in, at least, 4 different posts?

[SlySly]

I don't feel the need to be chasing down a whole bunch of other posts to see what you were getting at.

I thought that was part of the game. I am constantly chasing other's posts trails to see if they are lying about what they are saying. I didn't know until now that you are too lazy to do such.

I have clearly pointed out Mr. Stoofer's avoidance of answering questions in 292. I figured Guardian's "Oh Snap!" post was so obvious it didn't need to be pointed out.

It's a rather easy way to make a poor case, because you are counting on the other people to not be bothered to dig up the same things you researched.

Read my 292, if that is not too much to ask of you, and tell me if you really believe I am trying to use the method you are referring to here. I did the digging for everyone since it seems I am one of the few in this game willing to do so.

I could be like Stoofer and Guardian and just vote or state they would support a vote for someone with absolutely no reason. Would that be more to your liking and make it where you found me less suspicious?

In fact,

Stoofer

and Guardian

, should we vote Shin out now since he has not posted in forever?

I know he hasn't done anything especially scummy so far in the game, but since you two were both in support of an opportunistic vote on me earlier in the game when I was not around to defend myself, I was wondering if you wanted to try to do the same to Shin now that he apparently isn't around to defend himself.

Why did you take the long route and not just say - "Stoofer didn't answer this question: [question here]"?

Because there were so damn many instances of such behavior. My way was actually the short way. I guess I'm lazy, like you, too, from time to time.

I've done it before, but if someone repeatedly asks the question, I'll probably answer it.

Is 3 times enough or are you like Guardian and think the avoider should get a free pass unless the questioner just keeps on badgering the avoider by repeating his question over and over?

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Question already asked by me, and answered in post 111, last part.

Thank you for pointing that out to me. In re-reading 111, your question and his answer were a little cryptic to me and I must have missed it on my first read through. Other than confirmation, I wasn't really a part of this game until post 120 which was after this. By the time I got to 111, I was probably ready to post and may have been rushing through the last of the posts to get into the game. Even though, my question was formed in a different way than your 111 was and his answer to my question would have had to have been very clear, had he chose to answer it. Had 111 read clearer, I wouldn't have asked him the Bugs Bunny question in 160. In fact, I had to read it twice even after you pointed it out to get the meaning from it that you were pointing out as your question and his answer were a little bit tVoD-ish, as far as clarity goes.

In your opinion, shouldn't Stoofer, knowing that I had just rejoined the game, have kindly either a) answered my newly formed question, or b) pointed out that he had already answered a differently formed question of similar content in 111?

Do you think he should be given a free pass for all of the other questions he has avoided answering, or do you think it is less scummy of him to just ignore everyone's questions?

[SlySly]

This is what I consider pussyfooting around the topic.

Usually. Are you implying that I've been avoiding your questions?

Not at all.

Read my posts and see who I have asked questions of and who has avoided answering those question and I think you will see things in a better light.

It is not only my answers that one of the people in question has avoided answering.

Use as many pronouns as possible and not be clear at all about what the questions are and whether they are relevant.

You know, I just re-read your response here and I had to re-respond. You didn't ask what the questions were or who was avoiding them. You just asked if I was suggesting that you were the one doing it. I answered your question very clearly and completely with "Not at all."

I didn't have to, but I offered up some extra content and you tried to turn it on me. That is a wee bit suspicious in my book.

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can we all settle down, take a deep breath, and lynch tvod?

Does your scumminess ever stop?

My vote won't change today unless you reach L-1 and it is obvious that Mr. Stoofer is going to slip through.

Quit trying to lead the vote just because you see a bandwagon forming. All us townies whose eyes are open can clearly see your are reaching for a quick mislynch.

[SlySly]

In your opinion, shouldn't Stoofer, knowing that I had just rejoined the game, have kindly either a) answered my newly formed question, or b) pointed out that he had already answered a differently formed question of similar content in 111?

Well, you sorta answered your own question. Mr Stoofer would have done that if he was playing "kindly". Judging by his play in this game, this is not the case.

I asked your opinion of what Mr. Stoofer should have done. You did not give it in your response, any reason for that?

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To ignore a question when it is written in a completely comprehensible manner is scummy. Doing it under the guise of "ignoring me" is no less scummy.

QFT

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That must have taken a lot of hard work, SlySly, but is in fact a load of crap.

It did take some work, yes. Load of crap, no. Though it now appears you did answer a few of the questions I pointed out, there are still plenty that you didn't.

I am not the only one who thinks this:

I believe slysly has a decent point about Mr Stoofers reluctance to answer questions

He actually answered a load of questions though (

even if he did leave some out

)

I really don't care about the answer to most of those questions, what bothers me is your consistent ignoring of others questioning. In fact, you ignored another question of mine about Shin very recently.

As far as your insisting to not answer tVoD's questions, that is total crap. First, refusing to participate in one area of discussion is anti-town whether you are frustrated with the other player or not. Second, you really aren't standing firm on your insisting to not answer his questions as now you are selectively answering some of his questions while ignoring some of his others. Am I going to have to make that list for you too or will you admit that you are still answering

some

of his questions and not others?

Don't forget, it is not just tVoD and Guardian's questions you have avoided.

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I am sure you will agree that lord_hur has hardly been pro-Stoofer in this game

You should not be so quick to assume what I agree with. lord_hur has been pro-Stoofer in my eyes more than once in this game, including recently.

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To everyone other than Guardian and Stoofer:

Did anyone else pick up on Guardian's alluding to be a cop?

I think this could be a gambit the two (or 3) of them are pulling that they discussed in night 0 to setup Guardian's fake miller claim.

Here's why...

I am annoyed that you virtually claimed Cop at the start of this game and you are now backing off from that.

I didn't pick up on G's virtual Cop claim. Maybe I am just dense or maybe my late entry to the game kind of helped me forget about night 0 somewhat. The possibility of G hinting that he was a Cop never entered my mind.

Guardian usually starts off the game messing about a bit,

posting in haikus

.

Funny that Stoofer mentions this just before Guardian points out his scumcrumbing earlier in the game...

Like I said, it's about that thing, and also about how he made a very reaching interpretation of lord_hur's setup speculation.

Side Note:

M

eh,

I l

iterally

l

ike...

e

h...

r

eally feel I'm playing badly this game. So um... I'll try to play better? Mmm. Nighty night.

Side note = claim, first letters = miller. Put that together -->
Claim: Miller.

Stoofer also implies that the other person that has recently been acting suspicious, HackerHuck, also picked up on the claim. Maybe HH was part of a 3 way scum discussion with G and Stoof.

HackerHuck obviously noticed that something was up because he asked Guardian how why he thought SlySLy was probably the other scum in [100] and [102].

I didn't know what a miller was before G's claim. I'm sure Mr. Stoofer does with all his mafia experience, both playing and modding.

Here's what the wiki has to say about it...

A Miller (sometimes called an Outsider) is typified as a member of the town with an air of corruption and/or suspicion surrounding him. Thus a Miller acts like a normal Townie in every way except for one important feature: whenever a Cop investigates a Miller, the Moderator returns a guilty result, even though the Miller is pro-Town.

Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.

Guardian tries to cover the holes of his fake claim just like a good little minion of Mr. Stoofer should. He even admits that his role doesn't specify that he is a miller, but he full claimed it anyway.

Maybe it is because I subconsciously feel like scum, but I'm not, because best I can tell, I am a miller. My role PM says I am a townie, but it is not an exact copy of the townie role PM.

I could be crazy with this thinking but if only Hacker and Stoofer picked up on this virtual Cop claim of Guardian's, I could be on to something. There is definitely evidence there. I will be convinced if either Hacker or Stoofer change their Guardian vote if he gets nearer to being lynched.

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If we let him through how do we know he isnt scum and the cop shouldnt investigate him, sounds like an i am scum don't investigate me post.

QFT

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Guardian, millers are bad news for the town because investigations of them return guilty even though they are town, of course you already know that since Stoofer told you in night 0.

[SlySly]

Why does that make them bad news? I don't see where the bad news is coming from. If I never get investigated, how's it bad news?

Wouldn't be such bad news had you not claimed miller. You really weren't under any pressure to claim. Now we all know that if you are investigated, you will return guilty if you are scum or if your claim is true. That, IMO, is bad news for the town.

Wow, paranoia.

I do own a tin foil hat. Time will tell if I am wearing it unneededly in this instance.

I think that it is pretty reasonable to infer that a JEWISH player in this game who isn't scum is a miller.

After reading my role PM again, I think it is pretty reasonable to infer that any Jewish player in this game is scum.

ROFL at me needing to be told what a Miller is by Stoofer. I think I've mod'd about 5 games on this site, and have played over 20.

Duly noted. I didn't hear your fan club at the first of this game as I did Stoofer's.

SlySly's post is even more odd to me cuz it doesn't have him voting for me, despite him agreeing on all t his stuff.

Did you miss my post about my vote not going to change unless you reach L-1?

[SlySly]

No, that's an odd stance to take though.

Not really, I still think Stoofer has been the scummiest in this game so far, though, other than the non-contributing lurkers, you have played the worst.

I would prefer to lynch Stoofer but I won't hesitate to hammer you as you are a close 2nd on my scum list. I doubt any investigations will be wasted on you at this point in the game.

[SlySly]

were I scum, why unclaim?

You never unclaimed. You never claimed Cop, you just hinted at it.

were I scum, why so obviously breadcrumb a guilty day 1, that I knew to be false?

Miller is the perfect thing to breadcrumb for scum who is acting like a Cop. It gives you an out.

look at SlySly's case, and consider lynching him deeply. I'd support considering lynching him today!

I realize it seems very tempting and good to lynch me right now, but that won't result in dead scum.

We now all know an investigation on you will return a guilty. Any investigations on me will return innocent.

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Musher, I count him at L-2. HackeHuck voted on him twice.