Mini 574: Portal Mafia: HUGE SUCCESS

[Ether]

I'm vaguely thread-literate, though my reads are kind of in flux. (read: meh, lynch whomever.)

For the sake of placing a vote, I'll

unvote; vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

for a.) already having a vote on him and b.) sneaking that "sneaky 4th vote" into his reasons for voting Flameaxe on

page 8.

The other two reasons would be valid...but due to Flameaxe's meta I'd see Flameaxe more as a policy "shit-we-have-48-hours" lynch than as a #1 suspect.

Having said that, I agree that Ever needs to give his opinions. Gogogo.

He spends his efforts voting flameaxe, with a completely hypocritical reason. He even contradicts his own point by saying flameaxe has made a few good points and that a lot of people are posting one-liners.

To me, this is scum trying to make themselves look good after the lynch happens.

Filtering my predecessor's posts indicates that his most recent vote was on M-M, not Flameaxe--just, apparently unvotes are mandatory. (Now, you

did

filter Akonas's posts on your own to make sure he was indeed low on content, right?)

[Ether]

Tajo's hyperdefensiveness doesn't bother me. His one-twos did--but they were so over the top that they read more as an attempt to intimidate people off of the Gorradwagon than to get Gorrad lynched as town and prepare a Patrick/Incognito/Miztef lynch for tomorrow. Especially because he didn't vote Gorrad himself. If Gorrad's town, I can't see the one-twos as sinister, either.

Too hurried to read into Gorrad's wagon now, but I probably won't anyway without some alignments or results from him or a chance to interrogate him or something.

As for YWN, my answer is again "no, not really." Wait,

did

we ever get out of him why he voted Incognito instead of Flameaxe?

How's what I

have

done?

I could go for Ether as well, albeit with some guilt because she's just replaced in.

You know, I'll have settled into perfectly readable behavior by Day 2.

[Ether]

I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

Basically I agree with a Gorrard lynch. I havent liked for a while and his buddys (Flameaxe and scotmany) seem to have taken a vacation to brawl lands.

But, I'd like a VC before, please.

I see your point on this bit. Eh. I'd go along with a Tajolynch, I guess, but it still seems odd that a newbie would try to throw doubt on you and then get so

surprised

by the recoil.

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)
You can add this to the current schedule of town or simply ignore it, but I think at this point of the game is a pretty interesting suggestion.

I don't think that this these groupings can clear anyone.

Answer Patrick's question.

For clarity's sake, I did isolate them, are you saying that may have clouded my view?

I asked because you accused my predecessor of hypocrisy over his reason for voting Flameaxe--but a glance through Akonas's posts would have shown that he was trying to vote M-M at the time, and just making an observation.

(Incidentally, hypocrisy is not a scumtell.)

I have made it clear throughout the game that one main reason for my suspicion on flameaxe is the 4th vote thing, so there was no "sneaking" involved at all on my part. And since I have never played with flameaxe, I don't see the meta arguments defending flameaxe holding water.

The use of the word "sneaking" was just to make me look ironic and witty; this defense does not counter my actual point, which is that you're still using a random fourth vote as an attack on someone two weeks into the game.

Even if you haven't played with Flameaxe, other people have. (This doesn't really prevent you from being stubborn town, but I still don't like it.)

I'm selling: Ether for just replaced into game,

Did you seriously just try to paint me as a mercy lynch?

Like,

seriously?

Wagons:
I'm buying: Flameaxe for reasons discussed tons of times before
I'm selling: Ether for just replaced into game, populartajo for his recent sufficient defense
I could be buying: Relative non-contributors, most notably scotmany and the jester

Buying/selling should be switched here:

Ether 2 (Gorrad, Miztef)
Machiavellian-Mafia 2 (scotmany12, Ether)
populartajo 2 (Patrick, Incognito)
Flameaxe 1 (Machiavellian-Mafia)

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, Flameaxe, populartajo, The Jester, Your Worst Nightmare

[Ether]

I did not know that, actually, but I didn't explicitly request a List. Still give opinions on a wider variety of people.

(On a note unrelated to my own vote, hypocrisy continues to not be a scumtell.)

[Ether]

Tajo, still who's scum?

No, I believe in replacements having a clean slates unless there is overwhelming evidence against predecessors. Since obviously there isn't for Akonas, I don't find you suspicious right now and thus don't support your lynch.

Oh. Um. I misinterpretted "selling"; fair enough.

What makes you think he was just surprised and not some other such emotion?

I'm unsure what you're getting at. His "hey, don't take this so seriously!" is sloppy enough to make me think he wasn't anticipating a backlash, which I find townish, but I don't think that that answered your question.

Ether: I'm liking him. I'm thinking pro-town for now. No lynching him (hence,

unvote

)

(I am a girl Cake Core.)

Tajo: good lynch for today, there has been inconsistencies in his play and evidence for scummy behavior.

Again, what inconsistencies? what scummy behavior?
Im not a good lynch. seriously. You came late to the party.

[...]

Pattern? Can you explain what do

you

think, whats

your

case against me?

Alright, because tajo is at least being active and useful, I will not go into further detail about his lynch.

You should answer him.

You should answer Patrick and me, too.

unvote; vote: Miztef

; I'll still be around to secure a lynch.

[Ether]

You should answer Patrick and me, too.

For clarity's sake, I did isolate them, are you saying that may have clouded my view?

I asked because you accused my predecessor of hypocrisy over his reason for voting Flameaxe--but a glance through Akonas's posts would have shown that he was trying to vote M-M at the time, and just making an observation.

Sorry--in question form, why did you miss the Machiavote?

1. If you are against lynching Ether, why do you stil lhave vote on her?
2. From are first and third paragraph, it seems like you are willing to along with any lynch without firm conviction. Do you find no one worthy of a lynch right now?

Actually, I'd say he answered those two just fine by changing his vote.

Can someone link to an example of the Miztef meta?

[Ether]

I'm typing this from the library, and I'm aware that this header makes me sound just like Ether.

Nice sig.

Reading through what I've missed, I'm starting to find all the current candidates less appealing.

I feel the same. I got through Communiqué with my anti-Miztef mindset intact, but then Incognito had to go and bring up Pooky's game. That's...okay, yeah,

unvote

.

Miztef should explain his progression better, though. ¬_¬

Vote: MM

That makes 5, and I don't think people voting MM would vote Miz instead.

Odd conclusion. Ever was attacking Miztef just a few posts ago, Gorrad doesn't appear to have even seen the wagon yet, and a quarter of the town doesn't have votes out.

M-M, claim.

[Ether]

vote: scotmany12

I am not going to touch Miztef or Incognito today. A Tornadolynch would be an acceptable compromise, though.

I would not be lending my vote to a Flameaxe wagon. I know he hasn't really contributed much in typical Flameaxe fashion, but I'm actually getting a decent vibe coming from him and the stances he's taken with some of the arguments.

Please elaborate on your meta at some point.

Incognito, as I haven't covered him yet, has been very agressive, and towards the wrong people. Major scum vibes.

No.

[Ether]

I'm also surprised by the kill, but it doesn't really change my strategy. There's only so far a claimed protective role that clears people can go. (Also, in this instance, I do believe M-M due to Jester's unnecessary vote in 261.)

I doubt there's a cult. I tend to think cults are stronger than mafia, so implementing one just so it can be immune to investigative roles on top of everything else seems cruel. (Actually, there's an ongoing game that might or might not fly in the face of this, but I still don't think

Glork

would do it.)

Ever, who's scum?

[Ether]

Incognito and Tornado didn't bicker.

Explain why?

Aggressiveness is not a tell (unless there's an Incognito-specific meta I don't know of). Inaccuracy is certainly not a tell on Day 1, and it's sketchy later.

So Miztef starts playing scummy/wishy-washy all the time, and suddently he's town in all games he's in. Am I missing something?

Pooky's game implies Miztef is backwards.

Tornado doesn't actually seem to be around, by the way.

[Ether]

I am tempted to join the Flamewagon.

Pooky is PookyTheMagicalBear, the mod of that game Miztef was scum in.

It is highly, highly unlikely that there is a cult; anticipation of one will not affect my play and should not affect yours.

[Ether]

I don't get Incognito's vote.

(Yes, I'm aware that we're on the same wagon.)

[Ether]

Eh? I thought I covered this already: Post 295

Ah. Your timing in 352 was and still is unclear, though 295 is valid.

While I wouldn't oppose a Scotlynch, I'm going to

unvote; vote: Flameaxe

.

[Ether]

I do believe I'm about to be prodded.

So, uh, yeah, Flameaxe should claim. And follow up on this, though I don't really expect him to do that.

I really just dislike people using their own metas as defenses. Its borderline WIFOM for me. Simply saying this is how I always play as town is just, eh, not good.

Nah. When it's something like "I always lurk," then things get complicated, sort of. He's

saying

what he does differently as scum, and checking his games will show that to be accurate. In fact, in that case, other people checked the games and responded the same way before he posted that.

I think if another pro-town power role comes up, we should seriously consider which are anti-town or not.

...meh, remind me to respond to this later.

Theoretically, M-M could have been roleblocked, which would also explain the nightkill. I am only pointing this loophole out--I don't actually want to lynch either of them. Really. So there you go.

I would wager that there is either 4 scum, or 3 scum and a sk.

You would.

[Ether]

His last post was Friday premorning. So he's prodbait anyway.

[Ether]

I thoroughly agree with the massclaim.

But if it's all the same to you, I'd like to go after Guardian and Incognito.

[Ether]

I'm a roleblocker. I blocked Tornado/Guardian on Night 1 and Ever on Night 2.

I knew when Gorrad came out with his information today that Incognito was the second killer. I wanted to make sure he'd actually claim vig, but I do pretty much believe him.

[Ether]

Ether, what did you mean by "other" killing role?

The killer of Jester (obviously not mafia) and presumably Ever (likely lynch candidate).

Ether, what made you target Sir Tornado on Night 1? I noticed in your Post 7 that you mentioned that you could go for a Tornado lynch on D2, but I don't remember you mentioning much about him during D1.

It's because he didn't post. I expect scumbags to send their most under-the-radar member to kill.

I wanted to again point out something odd about Ether going last -- if she was scum considering a RB fake claim, she gets a lot of town cred if she makes up a RB result on whichever of me or Incognito was not the killer, and says "see, I *knew* the other was a killing role". By dint of her having gone last, she hasn't proved she *knew* anything.

I was not trying to prove myself.

I'd say Guardian is scum based on the hider claim alone, but I can't spell this out beyond "MeMe fakeclaimed hider in some game I've never actually read once and Shanba did it too in ScumChat." So, um, let's move along.

What's the plan? Scum-hunt.

Don't bother. We can break this game.

We no-lynch. Guardian hides with me. I block YWN. (Alternatively, I block Incognito, who tries to kill, to show that I'm not blocking Guardian.) Gorrad checks Guardian.

That should clear me outright and establish that either a.) Guardian is scum or b.) there's a gunsmith-immune godfather. Things could get messy if Incognito is a serial killer, but I think that's unlikely; keep in mind that if we successfully lynch mafia and the game's not over yet, he's toast.

[Ether]

No, Gorrad, that's much worse. The point of Guardian hiding with me is that it clears me. And even if I keep Incognito from killing

me

, that doesn't rule out me being a kill-immune godmother. I'd have to stop him from targetting a third person to prove anything. Honestly, I'd rather block YWN and let the rest of you draw conclusions based off of Gorrad's and M-M's actions consistently going through, but I'll target whomever the town wishes.

Unless I'm missing something, my plan

does

take gunsmith immunity into account as well as anything can. If we establish that I'm blocking YWN, then he's cleared if there's a kill. And Guardian hiding with me clears me.

[Ether]

Ether, your plan seems to ignore the scenario of Incognito being an SK.

Meh. My list of priorities is {clear/condemn {Ether, Guardian} > doublecheck {Miztef, YWN} > have lynch left over for Incognito just in case}. The scumhunting which you advocate so vocally leads me to believe that Incognito is town.

Is there something in his play which is causing your dissent, or are you just trying to scare us?

If we no lynch, we could lose up to 3 people tonight -- mafia kill, SK kill, and one of them targeting you, who I'm hiding with. That would, at worst, result in 1-1-1 tomorrow.

See above. (I'm not going to bother arguing over whether prisoner's dilemma is fatal to the town or not; I acknowledge that we can't imagine what sorts of horrible serial killer buffs Glork might have thrown in.)

I'm not sure me saying if -- and who -- I'm hiding with before we go to night is a good plan at all.

Of course it's a good plan. I need clearing, so you're gonna clear me. Simple.

And even if Incognito is a vigilante, and you, Ether, are a mafia roleblocker, for instance, me hinding with you would kill me, and you could block incognito and kill him -- or allow him to kill a townie, and kill another.

If you hide with me and die overnight and I survive, then I'll get lynched the next day.

And seriously, if I were a mafia roleblocker, why would I have left Gorrad alone for two nights and M-M for one in the first place?

I'm very dubious about abandoning scum hunting and no lynching today.

Ahahahaha. Sure you are, you poor cornered scumbag.

[Ether]

Seriously can we just lynch Guardian today?

I'd be cool with that.

[Ether]

vote: Guardian

[Ether]

or considering any other options.

This is a load of fish-shaped solid waste, and you know it.

[Ether]

Also, I

finally

got to use that line. I despaired when Flameaxe died.

[Ether]

I've already broken the game, Guardian. The possibility of IncogSK is the only thread you're still hanging by, and it's very, very weak.

I am still perfectly willing to no-lynch, as long as it's under the arrangements I've provided. But I think lynching you accomplishes the same thing faster.

Incidentally--Incognito, you know those little paper-shaped icons in the top-left corner of every post? That's the URL you want.

[Ether]

Miztef, what are your thoughts on no-lynch?

By the way, Incognito is even more obvobvtown because he's voting Guardian. If he were a serial killer, no-lynch would be the safer route for him.

[Ether]

So, uh, yeah, still voting Guardian. The "the last scum is everything-immune" sentiment is idiotic. (For a few seconds, I was taken aback that he hasn't tried to use that to get out of hiding with me yet. But that's the only way he can get out of being roleblocked, so he's still scum.)

No it wouldn't. Because he knows that by doing exactly that, he'd make you believe he is viggean and not SK.

And even so, no-lynch WOULDN'T be the safer route for him anyway. The quicker he disposes of people, the less likely people start doubting his claim. And the more easier and faster his job becomes (being the last one alive).

If Guardian is lynched as mafia today and the game doesn't end, Incognito will be lynched next, no questions asked. If he's a serial killer, his only chance to win is to keep the last mafiate alive until LyLo.

I would like to know HOW she was able to determine that, and why she only revealed it AFTER you yourself said you were a viggean.

Process of elimination. Like I said, I wanted to see if Incognito would claim the kills without knowing that I would get him lynched/blockspammed if he didn't.

You're also ignoring how I claimed a role that did nothing N1, and Hid N2 -- that fits in perfectly with Ether's claim, that I had no way of knowing anything about.

You wouldn't have been told you were roleblocked. Hiders don't get results. It's irrelevant.

[Ether]

Glork has requested that I sing for Portal.

So. Uh.

♫

Lynch, lynch, lynch
Lynch that scumbag Guardian!

♫

[Ether]

There's probably a lesson to draw here about fakeclaiming power roles that can be used in a productive way. Guardian's target would both inevitably survive the night

and

be cleared. 'Course, I had a dangerous clearing-people-stopping-kills role and I was the other person who needed some level of confirming, and no one saw that coming.

Guardian's gunsmith-immunity is absolutely hilarious.

Aside from that, everything I have to say has already been said by Patrick.

[Ether]

Oh, yes.

This game was too separated from its theme, I thought. Our claims didn't even bring up flavor; the only manifestation was YWN.