Mini #553: Over!


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Post Post #126 (isolation #0) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:37 pm

Post by Imat »

I don't think zyrc actually posted anything, but if he did get a random vote off before deciding to throw an innocent into reading through 6 pages of...One very long discussion...Anyways, just in case,
Unvote
.

As it stands I haven't really seen scummy behavior, at least, nothing that guarantees scum, from any of the players. I, personally, don't like the bandwagon approach, it seems to me that it can be taken advantage of too easily. Therefore I won't vote for either Matt_s or Khel without a good idea of their scumminess. I need further evidence, particularly from those who aren't posting, before deciding.

To all the bandwagonners who didn't supply any reason: Really? Shameless bandwagon? For shame.
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Post Post #132 (isolation #1) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:19 pm

Post by Imat »

FoS: Matt_S


Despite large amounts of evidence, all of which he agrees with, saying that CoolBot is Scum, Matt still maintains his vote on Khel, whom he used to agree with and recently bandwagonned against. He had a rather pitiful excuse to vote for Khel too, considering right before he said he wouldn't vote Khel for the lynch because he believed him to be Town, and, correct me if I'm wrong, a power role. This seems suspicious to me, and I'll let Matt answer to that.

As for CoolBot, I'll have to reread what he has said, pick up on what you two have seen.
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Post Post #134 (isolation #2) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:33 pm

Post by Imat »

I though you were voting Khel? Did you unvote from that? If so, I remove my suspicions.

Oh, wow, forgot what happened after that, when it went from Khel and Matt split to all Matt. Sorry about that, and
UnFoS
.
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Post Post #145 (isolation #3) » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:45 pm

Post by Imat »

CoolBot has show himself to be shady in this game, I don't know if he warrants a vote, but his quick bandwagon hops do strike me as trying to get a quick lynch over with, perhaps anxious for the night to arrive. However, I haven't been looking much at his posts because I was paying more attention to Matt and Khel at the time. I'll have to look at CB's posts specifically.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #4) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:05 pm

Post by Imat »

Ah, finally got the chance to reread CoolBot's posts. His recent posts do seem somewhat...Defensive, would be the proper word, though who wouldn't be when faced with several votes. However, they are not as suspicious as I had first said because he hasn't tried to turn it around onto anybody else, he maintains his own innocence without trying to push blame onto the first person he sees.

Also, rereading his "Bandwagon Hop," he didn't really hop. He had voted Khel originally for the same reason you all did, the Mass Claim. Then, after reading the copious amounts of evidence for and against the Mass Claim, he felt that it wasn't a good idea, but neither was it a scummy idea. When he decided this and then looked at how Matt agreed with this idea but then changed his vote with a rather wimpy excuse, he swapped to Matt, I believe only the second vote on the wagon and probably one of the few with any good reason.

CoolBot, you'd better not be Scum, cuz I just poured through your posts looking for any sign of scumminess and didn't find any. If you are scum, that'll look really bad for me.

Also, I reestablish my
FoS: Matt_S
, his actions all seem very scummy to me, perhaps too much so to just forget about.
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Post Post #157 (isolation #5) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Post by Imat »

What I mean by Matt's wimpy excuse is that he spent several posts first explaining why he felt Khel was scummy then trying to explain why these actions, upon further thought, were not scummy, yet he jumped onto the wagon anyways and voted, despite having somewhat defended him. To say, with the vote, that he's "Too fishy to let go," seems somewhat contradictory to Matt's previous arguments, so I can see why CB jumped to Matt at this point.

Also, thanks for pointing out the number, it does mean he knew it was a wagon and jumped on anyways. However, as previously stated, I believe he explained his reasoning for hopping.
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Post Post #166 (isolation #6) » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:38 am

Post by Imat »

Ting, why do you think Matt is unnamed? If he were scum, he'd want to break up a potentially game winning name claim long before it showed his guilt. I believe he rejected the idea of a mass claim on the first page, mere posts after it was suggested. It may not matter to an unnamed scum because they can claim unnamed, not their role, and the claim will, luckily for Matt, die down quickly. However, a Named scum will be just as likely to claim unnamed to move attention from himself. Also, he seemed to want to reel others onto the Khel wagon before swapping with a flimsy excuse, one which I've already explained, onto the wagon himself. He wanted a majority to make sure Khel's lynch went quick. If that doesn't scream Scum, I don't know what does. He wants Khel to burn for trying to oust the Scum right away using what was, at the time, not too bad a plan. We know now that it wouldn't have worked, but neither Khel nor Matt knew this at the time, Matt just seemed to want to end it quickly.

CoolBot, following the same logic, also claimed unnamed. Its possible we've just uncovered two Scum. However, I've convinced myself that Coolbot isn't Scum, a dangerous position to have on any player, so I won't take action on him yet.

In the meantime,
Vote: Matt_S
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Post Post #167 (isolation #7) » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:39 am

Post by Imat »

Sorry, forgot this: This vote was mainly used to get to explain some of the actions Ive discussed, get him to talk.
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Post Post #176 (isolation #8) » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:22 pm

Post by Imat »

ting =) wrote:@Imat.
If his townness was inclusive of his unnamedness, he would have to be named town. Which he said he isn't. Even if I ignore all that though, he's still exhibited the most suspicious voting pattern. Until I find greater reason to suspect someone, I'll keep my vote on coolbot.
I won't argue the CB vote anymore, if he wants to lurk he'll just look the worse for it, sticking my own neck out for some random player doesn't strike me as a good move anymore. However, what I defended him on in the past still stands, so I personally won't vote for him unless I see something really scummy.

What I said about Matt also stands, however, so my vote won't change from him until, again, scummy behavior is seen.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #9) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:21 am

Post by Imat »

There are plenty of characters not in the Fellowship that had names, many of them had major roles too. Faramir, Arwen, Elrond, etc.

What is suspicious is that CoolBot hasn't told us of these other names in the past, even though he has said hes not in the Fellowship and is named. To not defend this easily reinforced arguement seems somewhat...odd...I'll be keeping a closer eye on his posts, specifically dealing with names, when I reread...
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Post Post #191 (isolation #10) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:44 pm

Post by Imat »

Actually, I think I'll
UnVote
, 5 out of 7 votes is too close for me, I felt like we haven't had nearly enough discussion to put somebody at that level.
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Post Post #193 (isolation #11) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:28 am

Post by Imat »

My vote was on Matt_S, I didn't want some uninformed Townies to come in and hammer out those last votes. While 2 uninformed townies (Due to replacements and such) is unlikely, 3 is much less likely than that even. So I unvoted so we can have more discussion. Things I want discussed: CoolBot's not giving examples of names outside of the fellowship but still pro-town, even though its an easy thing to give examples for. I also want to hear more from some of the unknown Townies out there, such as Destructor. Those are, currently, the things I want answers to. I realize that Matt has nothing to answer for ATM, so another reason to unvote.
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Post Post #225 (isolation #12) » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:38 am

Post by Imat »

The Nothings Changed Vote Count!


Votes required:
7 to lynch


4, Matt_s
-
massive, Khelvaster, Coolbot, Talitha

1, Coolbot
-
ting =)

1, Eljcko
-
Destructor


Not Voting:
6, Qman, Petunho, Matt_S, eljcko, crazy_vlad, Imat


Gondor, Rohan, Elves (All of them), Dwarves, Hobbits. All of these are valid areas. Lesser known names hide out in all of them, though they are much lesser known in some cases.

About Spindax, AKA Qman: I also find his little knowledge weird, but not necessarily a scum move. Qman may seem to be delaying his responses and posting with little real info to be a lurker, but thats all conjecture ATM.

Matt_S has shown some Scummy behavior in the past. Now he seems just defensive, not very offensive in the Scum-Hunting way. I have not seen any recent votes by him or posts that actually give evidence for another players innocence. Possibly a response to early votes which caused him to retreat from outright accusations.

CoolBot has shown himself to be persistent against the bandwagoned players. Perhaps looking for an easy place to park his vote, perhaps genuinely believing in the Scumminess of the target. Even now, when Matt_S has explained himself, CB wants answers for answered questions. Perhaps he needs to reread, but he seems to want a quick lynch in any case.

Talitha also joins the Bandwagon, without much in the way of evidence, though none of us had much evidence. Now, however, she keeps her vote. She claims her vote can be easily switched, but I'm not sure whether or not thats the case.

Massive has gotten away with hanging back, IMO, but he hasn't seemed Scummy. He seems to be a valid Scumhunter and attempts to dissuade players from voting based on bad evidence.

Ting has shown himself to be Town. Not Scum, as some may still believe, but Town. Perhaps not a Power-Role, but not Scummy in any way.

eljcko almost seems to protect Matt or avoid him. Perhaps he truly believes Matt's innocence, perhaps he knows something we don't know. All I know is what hes posted.

That concludes my list, to catch up myself mostly. Argue with what you want. I tried to keep out my own views on who is Town and who is Scum for obvious reasons, some may have slipped. I believe I'm caught up now...
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Post Post #231 (isolation #13) » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:09 pm

Post by Imat »

Hes Town and hes in the Fellowship, whats there to miss? I don;t think thats what he meant, however, because he said before hes not in the Fellowship, or at least unnamed...
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Post Post #248 (isolation #14) » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:57 am

Post by Imat »

Ting, could you explain your suspicions of eljko? I haven't really gotten any vibes from him, either way, so I'd like to see what I missed.
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Post Post #268 (isolation #15) » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:55 pm

Post by Imat »

Sorry, I was watching certain players at the time and really only had thoughts on them, at least, any specific thoughts. I'll read over your responses and finish up my list, hopefully I'll fine something more there than I found elsewhere...
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Post Post #304 (isolation #16) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:54 pm

Post by Imat »

Welcome to the game Mert.

I don't really like how Talitha is playing the game. Something about her recent posts seems underhanded, I think I'll have to check out the rest of her posts to compare.

The eljcko vote for his absence doesn't sit well with me either. Something is up with Talitha.
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Post Post #307 (isolation #17) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:31 pm

Post by Imat »

I never said lynch her for it, I said something about her posts didn't sit right with me. A couple off posts isn't enough to condemn anybody, but tomorrow I'll explain some of my suspicions.
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Post Post #312 (isolation #18) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:36 pm

Post by Imat »

I meant tomorrow IRL, then got busy...

So, Onto my suspicions that I couldn't explain: Until now...

#173: After repeating an arguement that I had just made and that others had either agreed or disagreed with beforehand, votes Matt_S. Not mentioning that others had suggested the same thing was Scummy, voting Matt_S was, IMO, the right choice at the time.

#181: You could take this either way, but I took it as a plus. She mentions that CB never actually claimed un-named, just that he said he didn't have a name in the nine.

#192: Infamous "I prefer to miss out all the dragggging out of nothing and just head straight to the lynching of the hapless townie (or the hapless scum, if we get lucky.)" I don't think this was the best way to state it, but Talitha was definitely in support of a lynch before a deadline was set. However, the fact that she doesn't want a long day brings up my suspicions again.

#199: Says she hasn't been given a name but is all in favor of a Name claim...Knowing that she can't claim at all and therefore will not be effected by it.

#215: When given the quote "And, my thoughts on Matt_S's role remain undecided. He may be vanilla, he may be scum. He shows flashes of both," she replies " So let's lynch him (Matt_S) and find out."

#218: Explains her lynch Matt comment with "Anyone have any better candidates?"

#240: Jumps on Qman for a vote that had little evidence behind it. Unwarranted overreaction, IMO.

#242: Explains she would vote Matt, even though he could be either side, because his Townie claim makes him a safe lynch. I don't agree with this at all, but it comes down to circumstance.

#277: Votes Vlad out of "Annoyance mostly," but also because " am still too brain-dead to properly evaluate the case on eljcko." I don't get this at all. Vote someone for annoyance and some unnamed suspicions because you don't want to review valid suspicions on another player? As I said, I don't get it.

#290: Explains the "Don't care what alignment we lynch" by saying "Scum would care if the Town lynches Town or Scum." Doesn't really explain it, kind of makes you look worse. If Matt is Town, but you still want to lynch him because you "Don't care what alignment he is," it makes you look Scummy because Scum know hes Town. This doesn't explain in the least why you "Don't care what alignment the lynchee is." Then admits that Vlad isn't even suspicious and unvotes him.

#293: Mentions a possible Matt safe claim, kind of admits it really is possible, but disregards it because we are no longer discussing Matt.

#294: Good Point: Wants to know why Qman doesn't want to include the Names in Scumhunting. Bad Point: Role fishes the doubly replaced player.

#302: Explains off the role fishing by claiming it was a joke...Can't tell whether it was or not...Loses her suspicions of Qman when he answers her questions satisfactorily, but then Votes eljcko because theres "No reason not to." Again, it looks as though she doesn't care who we lynch, she just wants to be on the BW when it happens.


So, to explain what this mess means, Talitha has openly stated she doesn't care who we lynch, she just wants a lynch, and can't really give a good explanation for these comments. Also vote hops (Just twice) with no real reason, two of them on BW's and one of them for suspicions by other players at the time. She hasn't really explained any of her reasoning and maintains that she can't be bothered to do so until later...Which has yet to come, apparently. These are where my suspicions stem from, I guess I had put it together subconsciously long before I put these pieces together. From what I've seen, this is the biggest evidence in the game. I'm sure we all think that about our evidence, but this, I'm hoping, is enough to persuade others.

So, in honor of Talitha,

Vote: Talitha


No better place for it.
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Post Post #317 (isolation #19) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:57 am

Post by Imat »

Really Talitha?

Ok, #294 Revisited: I really don't know whether you meant what you said or not, but you're explanation of it as "A lame joke" was thoroughly unconvincing.

#199 Revisited:
Talitha wrote:I havent read the last few posts properly but wanted to post re the name claim.

I wasn't given a name when i replaced in, and I assume that the other replacees don't have names either. This doesn't mean that people who are original players shouldnt claim... I will mull over that for a while.
blatant misrepresentation? I took "My not having a name doesn't mean others shouldn't name claim" as you being in favor of it. That may not have been what you meant, but its what I took it as and an easy interpretation to see.

#173 Revisited: By repeating others arguments we don't really see your own opinions...Ordinarily I'd agree that yes, you being new gives you some leeway, but I haven't seen much else in the way of hunting since then.

#277 Revisited: ATM I don't have an opinion either way on eljcko. I won't support his lynch because I don't believe in it, but I won't try and stop it either: I don't have that power. And I am interested in Scum hunting, more so than I've seen in you. Thats one of the many reasons I voted for you.

#302 Revisited: Since you didn't put in a post number...Anyways, I didn't say you voted eljkco for his absence. Is that why you voted him? Because otherwise I saw you vote him because "No reason not to." Again, it seems like your desire of a lynch overrides all logical thinking. Otherwise theres really no explanation for your actions.

I've noticed, Talitha, that you constantly vote people for no reason and show a general lack of participation in hunting. When people question this, you reply with something to the effect of "I'm too tired/not caught up/I'm a replacement, bear with me." Nobody else has shown such a blatant disregard for who we lynch and for what reason.
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Post Post #347 (isolation #20) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:06 am

Post by Imat »

For reference in day 2: Shaka says Matt didn't quote him. This doesn't confirm Matt as either side, since he did paraphrase but he may have been able to get at the jist of the Town PM with his post, making him either Town or Scum. Again, Shaka's deletion does NOT confirm him either way.

Also for reference day 2: Ting, why do you find us three the most suspicious?

And finally, in case of NK: I'm still looking at Talitha with suspicion. I made a case against her, it was, admittedly, very weak, but there are still some play style things I've noticed. Mostly, I can't really find much in the way of Scum Hunting from her.
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Post Post #354 (isolation #21) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:32 am

Post by Imat »

Ummm...3 deaths? Wow, thats changes things. I was expecting a straight up Mafia versus Town game, the SK scares me. However, the third kill confuses me. I really don't want anybody to claim, but I think we either have another SK or a messed up Doc. I have no idea how common CPR Docs are, or if anybody would blindly protect as one, but I don't think the Mod would put in three killing groups either...

And Matt, why Talitha wanted to kill you to find out your alignment in general was one of the reasons I was looking at her. But I'm glad nobody listened to me, I have a habit of finding Scumminess in Cops it seems...

So, next question...Do we want to figure out who may have killed who, or will that become a useless discussion? It may yield results, but it may also take time and not deliver any new information...
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Post Post #358 (isolation #22) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:22 pm

Post by Imat »

Yeah, Khel, I think you misread something. Talitha was the Cop, Vlad was the SK, CB was the GF. Your logic makes no sense unless you made a mistake somewhere...
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Post Post #374 (isolation #23) » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:54 pm

Post by Imat »

ting =) wrote:
Imat wrote:I don't think the Mod would put in three killing groups either...
We
have
three killing groups. There were 3 nks. The mafia obviously have one. Depending on how the kills stack, crazy vlad probably made the other nk. That leaves one more nk unaccounted for.
I though perhaps we'd have some kind of CPR Doc role, where he can either protect or kill. In a game this small I wouldn't expect to have three killing groups, so I thought of something else that may work.
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Post Post #402 (isolation #24) » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:49 am

Post by Imat »

Sorry for inactivity, I lost internet for the past week. I'll read what I've missed, give some thought, and if you have any questions feel free to ask them.
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Post Post #412 (isolation #25) » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:14 pm

Post by Imat »

I've fallen way behind in this...I'll admit part of it is due to more interest in other games, but most of it is due to time constraints. However, I'll attempt to start paying more attention to this game first off with a reread and a general suspicions overview. Then hopefully I'll be ably to contribute as much as I should.
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Post Post #430 (isolation #26) » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:51 am

Post by Imat »

Just a few words on Matt_S's early game performance: Does not seem Town to me. On the first page he hints at the secret his role PM contains, saying its why a mass claim wouldn't work. Nobody picks up on the nature of the secret, he hints harder. Then he states "I'll probably be NKed" in the same post as "To all vanillas: be VERY careful about how much you reveal from your pm. We can use this info to prove innocence later on." If you claim Vanilla, why would you be so worried about being NKed? "I don't see a power role voting someone who claims to fear for the power roles' safety." You weren't actually worried about Khel's safety during the Night? Did you know he wouldn't be the target? Then you FoS Ting and GSGold because they "Don't know the same things I (Matt) do." Succeeded by your suspicions of an evil Mod. I find it funny that you argue for Khel being a Power Role but don't even consider anyone else to be. Perhaps Khel is the Townie and Ting and GSGold are the PR's...(Power Roles, not Post Restrictions...). But the worst part of post 28 is your completely noncommital accusations of Coolbot. To me, they looked like preparation for the need to distance in the future. Then theres the business of waiting for another Townie to come forward with the secret. Sounds a lot like you didn't quite know the "secret" that you yourself claimed and wanted someone else to bring it to light for you, to verify you. The minute the flavor is extinguished, however, you state that Vanillas have no names. This does not confirm you in any way, I'm sure the majority of games have nameless Vanillas. Its a filler role.

All that leaves me at a
FoS: Matt_S
pending complete reread of him, not just up to the loss of flavor post. If I had to say from that alone, however, I'd say either Massive or Khel is a possible Buddy, if there are even three Mafia when we had an SK.

Matt, from what I gather from the first few pages, you seem to be against the ideas of a Safeclaim. Why, now, do you seem to support them? Especially since they could blend in with the nameless Townies.

More to come!
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Post Post #439 (isolation #27) » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:51 pm

Post by Imat »

Matt: Almost finished with the second part of my reread of you, then I'll answer your questions and explain what you may think is unclear. Tomorrow, look forward to it.
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Post Post #454 (isolation #28) » Sat May 03, 2008 2:28 pm

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Matt: A continuation:
Post 71: Again, this is such a pathetic vote. You give so many reasons for Khel being a Power Role, you even say your gut tells you he is a PR, then yu vote him with the flimsy excuse "I guess he is too fishy to let go..." Whats worse, this comes from CoolBot's persuasion. I can't see Town falling for CB's cased after defending somebody so much. I can see Scum looking at their partner's easy case and following their lead.
Post 75: You say we sould vote for Khel because he'sthe best case. Two big things worng with that: 1. You are undecided either way, and 2. Zyrc is lurking, which you openly say you'll give him a free ride for. Usually Lurkers tend to be better cases than someone with no strong feeling either way, wouldn't you say? Also in this post you sa that Khel is associating Fellowship with PR's. Which isn't necessarily true. Certainly if we ony have 2 or 3 Fellowship members Khel would do so, but personally I think he was thinking, and he stated this himself several times, that the game was a 9-3 Town to Scum ratio, so having all 9 Town in the Fellowship wouldn't be unheard of. He was trying to break the game, to find Scum though the easiest method, not to out PR's. Also, is it aother typo which made you say a Townie WOULD try a mass nameclaim on D1? Because that would mean you're leaning Khel for Town, yet you still vote him. Nvm, you explain it as a typo.
Post 82: Once again you say a Mass Nameclaim "would probably benefit the Town more," yet you say you don't know why someone would call for a Mass Nameclaim or why Khel did, specifically. This seems to me like oyu'r trying to accuse someone with blame you don't truly believe. Which is something Scum do, not Town.
Post 89: Not much here really, just speculation on my part: You feel the need to summarze your argument against Khel once again. Was this to try to get others to believe your case? Or were you havng your own doubts about it? The action seems Scummy, but not terribly so. And once again you ompletely miss Khel's point in asking for people outside of the Fellowship. You seem to do that a lot.
Post 91: Bad. Very bad. You unFoS Eljcko after having an off-topic discssion with him, then you UnVote Khel becaue you don't want the day to end too quickly. I can understand you Unvoting ifyou didn't believe your case anymoe, or even if he had votes on him, but you fet others would knowlingly quicklynch him if you kept your vote on him. So, beside the obvious fct that if you'reworried about a quicklynch, chances are others are as well and won't do it. However, on the offchance that people do vote him, they wouldn't vote to lynch. Scum might, if they wanted to out themselves for practically nothing, but Town has he same ideas as other Town. Your Unvot was completely unnecessary and, IMO, very Scummy.
Post 101: See posts 102 and 103. Yea, I'm referring you to posts by two players, Massive and Khel, who both completely disagree with your logic.
Post 112: You say you wanted answers from Khel, yet you needed to be sure others wouldback you up. Are you so uncertain of your case at this point that yu can't possibly accuse him by yourself?
Post 130: Can't see this as Town or Scum, it was a bad post either way. If youre Town, which means you weren't lying about being a nameless Vanilla, then CB's not saying he doesn't have a name is just as supicious as you not saying you don't have a name. Which is what you did, BTW. On the other hand, why throw your partner under thebus so quickly with so little pressure? Hence why I can't see this coming from either pespective, quite honestly...
Post 168: Again, you ned anoth player's support to vote somebody? Why not just act on your suspicions, take the lead. If we allwaited for someone else's support, the game would never getanywhere.
Post 174: I lol'ed at. "Other than me voting you and saying you were suspicious, what makes you think I wanted you to get lynched? " Usually finding someone supicious AND voting them is pretty telling of your desire to see them lynched, at least at that point in time. What makes you hink people want yu lynched, they don't vote you and take great pais not to look into your actions?
Post 183: Are your suspicions of Khel gone by now? Because once again you're defending him.
Post 217: After numerous cases against you and suspicionsrunning rampant, you questio why a player wants you lynched? Why question it? The answer is pretty obvous...
Post 232: You state opely that Fellowship implies Town and vice versa. This is completely diferent from your idea of the Fellowship earlier, when you said Fellowship had to be Power Roles, which is what you accused Khel for trying to exploit. When did your view on this change?
Post 252: deleted by the Mod, but you post a summary o your role PM. Its possible that you expected the Mod to delete this post and so did't worry about the content. Its possible you guessed at the basic jist of the PM, since this was a summary. Its also possible that you are a Townie and truly though summarizing your Role PM wouldn't gt you in trouble with the Mod and would clear you. Personally, I want to believe the latter is the most likely, but your actions beforehand force me to rethink the validity of it. FTR, I can't remember what was posted in this post, just that you summarized your PM.
Post 275: Say you're waitig for a votecount, but don't post for another two days. i something come up IRL? I'm not really accusig you here, it just seems wierd. Like when I said I'd post tomorrow a few days ago and then things came up...
Post 285: You want to drop the whole name thing. I can see this from an Unnamed Vanilla, or from Scum in general, unless they do have Safeclaims.
Post 328: You condemn Eljcko for not having a name, yet you can't see why people thinking you're Scummy for claiming unnamed?
Post 340: "I could have quoted my safeclaim." Now we know why you believe Scum to have safeclaims. Its because you have a Safeclaim! Which inevitably implies you are Scum.
Post 353: Did you form any conlusion based on the fact that I voted Talitha for what I thought was Scummy behavior?
Post 355: Why do you think a Vig wouldnt kill CoolBot? Wasn't he one of the top suspects of Day 1?
Post 373: Ah, this explains it. You felt he looked less Scummy than the other two...

Well, that sums up the latter part of my reread...No onto explanations from before...
Ok, here it is: I expect Scum to go after Power Roles first, which is a valid assumption. Each claimed Vanilla gives them one less target to worry about when guessing at the PR's. Also, you state you think you'll be the NK, so why wouln't I assume you thought Khel wouldn't be the NK? Unless, of course, you are the fourth killing group and had already decided to kill Khel...
Is funny how you completely missed my point that Vanilla's could have no names and you guessed at that fact, due to the huge frequency of unnamed Townies. Again, its all about how much you can get away with, and your hints make it seem more like you're guessing at the secret instead of kowing it.

Much of that post, 431, seems like Stawmaning (That is the right term, right?). You sem to ignore most of my points in favor of those you can stop quickly and easily.

Vote: Matt_S


Also,
Mod:
I am officially requesting replacement, if its not too much trouble, due to the onset of Tests over the next few weeks. I'll try and play until you can find a replacemnt for me, but just know that I won't have as much time for awhile.
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Post Post #457 (isolation #29) » Sat May 03, 2008 8:27 pm

Post by Imat »

I have, actually. I've analyzed your posts in the past, just not all of them together. I've pointed at your weak argument for voting Khel several times, for example.

So here comes an important question: If you won't vote somebody who you think others will vote for, and you won't vote someone if you don't think others will vote them, then when will you vote someone? And if these contradictory statements on your part hold true, why did you vote so much yesterday?

And no, you didn't answer to all my posts. You convenietly ignored the fact that I was calling you Scum trying to guess at a reason for the Nameclaim not to work, even though you completely recognized that most Townie roles don't have names. So, there it is. I'm saying you're intelligent Scum who can make a resonable deduction. You seemed to miss that particular point when you went over my other analysis.

And again, if you like pressure votes why did you unvote Khel who had one vote on him instead of keeping pressure on him? Either you believed him to be a Power Role, which is silly because you said many times before that that you didn't, or you didn't actually want pressure on him.

I'm trying to hunt Scum here, Matt, and you fit the bill. Comng out with OMGUS doesn't refute the evidence I've stated. True, I've looked at it from the MattScum perspective, but I hardly think the MattTown perspective will hold up.

And thank you Shaka. If you can survive with a mostly inactive player, I'd be glad to stick around. This game, however, needs more activity if it is to survive...
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Post Post #462 (isolation #30) » Sun May 04, 2008 3:03 pm

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Ok Shamrock, that was pretty bad. None of that is evidence of my Scumminess, mostly because its so incorrect. From the top:

Yes, me saying CoolBot was defensive, but thats understandable and even not Scummy makes me think he's Scummy...Where does this even come from? I say hes not Scummy, so I obviously think he is? This is crazy talk.

As for the changing of my mind: Notice how I had pretty much just come int the game at that point. I hadn't finished reading yet, just wanted people to know that I was working on it. If you still findit suspiious that I didn't find the time to completely read before posting even once, I'm gonna be forced to vote you. Make sense? Didn't think so.

Then you mistake this sentence to, trying, and failing, at pointing out flaws in my arguments. I said CoolBot had large amounts of evidence. CoolBot. Not Matt. Another point down the drain.

Once again "I've convinced myself CoolBot is Town" does not mean I think he's Scum. Where you get this, I'll never know, but its another blatant misrepresentation of my words. I don't like it one bit.

How is my analysis of Post 285 not saying anything? Matt is either a Townie or Scum, and heres why. Sure, its not a big paragraph, but it says something. Again, you're saying things that aren't correct.

And my analysis of Post 340 was sarcasm. Sure, say what you will about it, but does it honestlyseem like I'd make a comment like hat in all seriusness? I thought the exclamation point would at least give some sort of clue to those who don't get sarcasm in print...

Final note: Yes, some of it was nitpicking. Notice they usually begin or end with "This doesn't mean much." The important details, the ones which I felt make him voteworthy, didn't begin or end with such a line.

The strawmanning: I dunno if its the right term, but he ignores the several points which obviously imply he's guessing at something, I believe I even came right out and said nameless Townies, then comes out and says "Why didn't you mention Nameless Townies before?" I felt like he was either completely misreading my post, which is what you've done just now, or he was trying to downplay the significance of guessing at nameless townies. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but thats what it felt like.

Truly, Shamrock, a wickedly aweful post. I can't believe any player would misread my posts so completely.
FoS: Shamrock
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