Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[ThAdmiral]

Vote: jester

Long posts! Quickly everyone - bandwagon! We must kill it now before it is able to fight back and confuse us with lots of words!!!

[ThAdmiral]

I think he was joking the whole time and is still joking now.

So

vote: near

Too much joking!!!

[ThAdmiral]

I love resaults.

[ThAdmiral]

I doubt it will work now that you've basically admitted you are doing it as a somewhat of an experiment...

but what the hey!

unvote, vote: scigatt

[ThAdmiral]

unvote

For the bandwagon to work it had to actually be a bandwagon, not just two votes. Someone had to be the third vote on and that person was me.
Like I said - it wasn't as effective as it could have been as people cottoned on to the fact that it was just an experiment.

Unless things change drastically, I'd say he's not going to be today's lynch.

I don't think he'll be the lynch for today.

I think it's statements like these, and also other ones where neko warned people to start taking the game seriously and/or start posting more that lead to cephrir feeling neko was leading the town a bit, which is understandable.
On the other hand I pretty much agree with everything neko said in that analysis post so I don't have a problem with it.

[ThAdmiral]

I see your point about Xtoxm not posting content, just like ThAdmiral. Thing is, a lot of players post one-liners and not contribute anything to discussion (including myself sometimes). But what really separates Xtoxm and TA in my eyes, at least for now, is that TA was jumping bandwagons for the sake of it. And that puts TA that much higher on the scumlist.

I would say players like Xtoxm are just harder to get reads from, which of course, is an advantage to scum, who obviously don't want anyone to try and figure out their alignment. But I am more concerned about TA's bandwagon attempts, covered up to look like pro-town experiments.

This argument would hold water if there was actually a chance that the bandwagon would have actually ended up in a lynch of scigatt. This was never the case though.

[ThAdmiral]

Xtomx is very curt.

Is he always this concise?

I say, Xtomx - are you being brief on purpose or is this just the way you go about your business usually?

[ThAdmiral]

That's only what you say. Scum will hop on wagons and hope that it leads to a lynch eventually. And what better way to do it than to vote the players with more votes than others and call it an experiment?

So essentially because I was specifically the

third

person to vote I am to get all the suspicion for the wagon, and the person who stated that they wanted to start a wagon, the person who followed that person and the person that put the

fourth

vote on the wagon (while also calling for other people to vote) gets no suspicion?

I think you are being a bit to caught up in mafia lore (i.e. third on a wagon is scumzors) and also being a bit single minded.

[ThAdmiral]

They get

less

suspicion than you, who also bandwagoned earlier.

And take a look at your post.

I doubt it will work

now that you've basically admitted you are doing it as a somewhat of an experiment...

but what the hey!

unvote, vote: scigatt

"Hey I doubt your experiment will work but I will still vote and hope that it will lead to a lynch!"

Well you've chosen to interpret it that way and I guess I can't change your mind.

[ThAdmiral]

Yvonne, thAdmiral, do you have opinions on anyone besides each other?

Yep.

I also don't like peers "gut" vote. It seems to me that he can't think of anything to say and is just using this as a cover to vote for someone without having to back up why.
It is also interesting to note that he chose to vote for the same person neko is voting, given that neko (more than anyone else) appears to have been accepted by most as town.
This is even more interesting given that his post prior to his vote he mentioned something about a possible scum-pair of neko and xtomx. Which he also didn't feel the need to elaborate on.

out of interest - @Cephrir: can you name a few of the players that play with their gut?

@ jester: can you point to a game where a mafiate has been sarcastic and at the same time been "instrumental in getting townie after townie lynched"?
I'm not the biggest fan of sarcasm on the internet either (although I find that clever people generally can pick it up) but I don't really think it's a scum tell.
Reckless behavior (which near has displayed) is somewhat of a scum tell, and covering the real reason of a vote (with jokes or manipulated analysis) is definitely a scum tell, but I don't really think near has done this.

[ThAdmiral]

Well at the moment i may have to vote for near to ensure my own safety. I wouldn't be that unhappy with a vote on him though.

I'd probably like to vote peers if I could.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you think Near is scum?

Not really but I think he's probably a better choice than most. Basically all he has done is try to draw attention to himself by looking scummy. His only real posts of any length discuss the definition of sarcastic vs. ridiculous, or something like that.

Why do you feel you can't vote peers?

I never said I couldn't - I may in fact - but I will let him respond to the comments that have been made about him first.

Do you think you are on the verge of being lynched?

Probably not but I am only one vote off being lynch leader and if it comes down to it I would rather myself staying alive than someone else I don't know the alignment of.

Remember, as of yet there is no deadline. We have plenty of discussion time.

True. Unfortunately not many people are doing much discussing.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you think Near is scum?

Not really but I think he's probably a better choice than most. Basically all he has done is try to draw attention to himself by looking scummy. His only real posts of any length discuss the definition of sarcastic vs. ridiculous, or something like that.

This implies you think there are better candidates. Who are these candidates. I am assuming one of them is peers. Who else? And why?

Peers is indeed one.

I don't like yvonneseer much for her apparent single mindedness (other than a random vote every single one of her posts is about me!).

I also didn't like how malthusis basically admitted he was parroting other people's views, but he's being replaced now so I am not going to attack his replacement because of what he did.

[ThAdmiral]

@ jester: can you point to a game where a mafiate has been sarcastic and at the same time been "instrumental in getting townie after townie lynched"?

Yeah. It was a major factor in Mini 466, of which I was a part. Two of the scum in that game delighted in making sarcastic fun of several players and led the town on a three-day festival of lynching townies with it before the town figured out what the hell was going on at the last second.

I had a read through that game and it seemed less like sarcasm than two mafiates being quite chatty with each other.
I do appreciate you actually giving me an example, though.

[ThAdmiral]

I just had a read of the rules and found that day will only end if there is a voting majority (i.e. 7 votes) and if a deadline is reached without a majority day ends in a no-lynch.
In that case I don't really consider myself to be in danger at them moment (I am used to playing in games where if the day goes to deadline the person with the most votes is lynched, which on day one can often be as little as three votes).

@ Marmalade: You said in a previous post that you would be discussing your voting intentions. Given that your most recent post focussed on yvonne and cephrir are we to take it that you intend to vote one of these?

[ThAdmiral]

My intention with requesting deadline is that a lynch take place not to enforce a no-lynch.

I think if a deadline were set there would be a lynch.

If there wasn't that would be pretty pathetic as

half the town would be inactive

.

Hey! Looks like I've got a lot to look over.

I'll post my responses by tomorrow afternoon. Bear with me.

Hey, Xtoxm.

Really?

To me looks like there's really not all that much here.

Lots of people are lurking

As you yourself point out -

half the town is basically absent

!

Which makes your request for a deadline suspicious...

FoS: Xtomx

[ThAdmiral]

I've been liking dizzyizzy's play since she came in.

+ 2 town points from me.

[ThAdmiral]

Posting at a good rate, saying logical things and mentioning stuff that I was thinking.

I've just found myself agreeing with pretty much everything she's said.

[ThAdmiral]

I haven't already voted yvonne.
And I think I've given her enough chances to try and convince me she was playing in a pro-town way.

vote: yvonne

[ThAdmiral]

I think the main problem seems to be that she responds to the prods but then doesn't say anything else.
Which makes her seem more scummy.

[ThAdmiral]

Yes, everyone please feel free to point out how I haven't been pro town, since yvonne seems incapable of doing this herself (even though she is 100% certain about it).
At least then I will be able to defend myself against something rather than simply facing unsupported accusations.

Also, yvonne, if you were in our situation and someone was intentionally lurking - how would you respond to that?

[ThAdmiral]

I normally don't like long posts followed by a vote, as this is often a ploy used by mafia to conceal a simple bandwagon hop, but in this case the reasoning contained within the post seems sound, and there is also the extenuating circumstance of it being Jamesthephox's first post - hence the length (phew, long sentence!).

His post also got me thinking - do you reckon it would be a good idea if we were all to do a list of the players and our thoughts on them?
I know this is sometimes frowned upon as mafia can use it as a guide on who to kill (i.e. the person most people think is pro-town), but I think it would help the game, and discussion, get moving without the need of a deadline to compel us.

[ThAdmiral]

I normally don't like long posts followed by a vote, as this is often a ploy used by mafia to conceal a simple bandwagon hop

Huh? Since when? I have never heard of this, and I entirely disagree. Long posts full of reasoning are often a protown thing to do, with lots of analysis so that everyone can follow you line of reasoning to a vote.

To expand on my original statement - I normally don't like long posts (generally listing all the alive players and the way the poster feels about them) which rehash things that have already been said by other players and then finish with the vote going on the person who already has the most.
Jamesthephox's post, however, wasn't like this. Although he did end up putting his vote on the lynch-leader he brought up new arguments and his logic was sound.

However, I do agree with the first part of your suspicion towards ThAdmiral. The vote on Near for self-preservation was odd to me (stated in my other post). I feel that in the first day, pro-town players should be less worried about themselves and should be more worried about finding scum. If a suspected pro-town player is killed, it actually helps town find mafia than if a suspected pro-town player lives to another day.

I agree in theory, but in reality I enjoy the actual

playing

of mafia just as much (or even more so) than simply winning, and this requires me to stay alive in games. So I try to do that as much as possible.

I get a scummy gut feeling from him, I guess. And I don't really have any other candidates who might be scum...

Vote: ThAdmiral

Ugh, three people voting for me for little more than "a feeling". Frustrating and hard to argue against, so I wont.
I hope, and trust, there are enough people in this game that actually use logic that this wont be a problem.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm not necessarily for a yvonne-replacement lynch, but the way we are playing essentially rewards someone for just disappearing if the heat gets too much to handle. If this is the case the mafia are going to have an easy game.

[ThAdmiral]

So if my maths are correct that is 4 votes on me with 0 reasons supplied.

[ThAdmiral]

Ecto sounds logical and well spoken.

Which is a breath of fresh air in this game.

unvote

257. What don't you have against ThAdmiral? Why have you hardly mentioned him at all?

Posts like this are stupid and I'm getting sick of them.

[ThAdmiral]

ecto is yvonne's replacement and I assume votes carry over.

As to your second question I can't help you there...

[ThAdmiral]

vote: Ectomancer

. His play since replacing Yvonne has done nothing to allay the suspicions that Yvonne developed, and I feel he's had adequate opportunity to give me a better impression. He hasn't.

This is just wrong.

Is that a claim?

Yvonne's behaviour didn't appear to be consistent with what I said - despite what was being said about her, she never once tried to change strategy from doing nothing but saying "Vote for ThAdmiral" to attempting to convice people it was the right move. If she had definite knowledge he was scum, I'd expect a change of strategy when she realised hers wasn't working. That didn't happen.

That, or since I've been posting whilst ill for the past week and a half, I completely forgot which game was which and had no idea of the which set-up I was posting about. Your choice, but I prefer the other explanation, personally.

This is both

wishy-washy

, and

fishy

.

I don't agree with that gamble...but okay.

And I don't understand what this means. Can you elaborate on this?

[ThAdmiral]

I'd also like to point out, although this could just be coincidence, that the Yvonne(ectomancer), Neko, Scigatt trio seems to all have jumped on Xtoxm.

Snix, that trio theory of yours is positively silly.

I like that someone's already looking for a scumteam rather than just a single mafiate though.

[ThAdmiral]

Clearly your analysis of my actions can be considered to be at best flimsy given how much apparent attention you've been paying to me. Given that there's a helpful little icon right to the left of every post I make, getting the gender wrong is just bad form.

Clearly this response could be considered to be at best flimsy.

vote: Ectomancer

. His play since replacing Yvonne has done nothing to allay the suspicions that Yvonne developed, and I feel he's had adequate opportunity to give me a better impression. He hasn't.

This is just wrong.

That's your opinion. Mine is that it is right.

We'll find out who's right when he's lynched

.

First of all your simply

wrong

because he was clearly playing in a more active and therefore more pro-town way to yvonne, and so your suspicion is unfounded (however if you want to try to continue on this line of argument can you point out specifically why you thought he "didn't give (you) a better impression"?).
Secondly -

getting a bit ahead of yourself

?

Is that a claim?

Yvonne's behaviour didn't appear to be consistent with what I said - despite what was being said about her, she never once tried to change strategy from doing nothing but saying "Vote for ThAdmiral" to attempting to convice people it was the right move. If she had definite knowledge he was scum, I'd expect a change of strategy when she realised hers wasn't working. That didn't happen.

That, or since I've been posting whilst ill for the past week and a half, I completely forgot which game was which and had no idea of the which set-up I was posting about. Your choice, but I prefer the other explanation, personally.

This is both

wishy-washy

, and

fishy

.

I wouldn't call either of them

wishy-washy

or

fishy

. They'd both fall under

flippant responses to an ill-concieved attempt to wagon, representing the low regard I hold for anything he says

.

Another weak response by saying that you didn't really mean what you said.

It seems to me you really don't have a leg to stand on.

@Neko: can you stop editorialising and actually start getting your hands dirty by seriously attacking someone? Your last vote was on xtomx a month ago and from your posts you seem to lack any real conviction that he's scum. You also haven't really explained why your vote is still on him as far as I can tell.

[ThAdmiral]

Fair enough, but I haven't had any reason to remove my vote. Can you explain what you mean by editorializing? I'm trying to keep discussion going, asking questions and whatnot. Would you like me to repost my thoughts on xtoxm every other time I post? I'm not sure what you want from me, exactly. If you're wondering if I'd still like to lynch xtoxm, the answer is yes. When the answer is no, I will let everyone know by voting somebody else.

By editorialising I mean making comments on the general play without actually getting in to any detailed discussions or arguments with anyone.

Although I think that prodding people with questions is good (i.e. protown) it seems like you're happy to sit back and comment on what's going on without really getting involved yourself. You just seem a bit aloof.

Until then, I am going to keep my vote on him and questioning others to see if there are other possible candidates. I'm not so narrow-minded that I think he's the only possible candidate for today, which is exactly why I'm not just yet fighting for his lynch. I want to make sure I don't think there is a better candidate first.

See this is one of my main problems - why are you so dependent on what other people think to decide on who your lynch candidate should be? You seem to have a pretty good grasp of what's going on in this game - go after someone yourself.

I will start pulling for his lynch if/when I think the time is right. But, I think we still have much discussion to do. If the day ends and you still think I've held a soft vote on xtoxm, then you, and anyone else, can hold me to it. But I think by the end of the day you'll figure out my playstyle.

Fair comment - if this situation comes up I certainly will.

Is there a particular reason you would like me to not vote xtoxm?

I don't want you voting for xtomx if you don't really think he's scum and just can't think of anywhere else to put your vote.

Also, am I to assume that your answer to my earlier question for you is that you are now suspicious of Yvonne?

I think you mean dizzy with the second question, and yes, she's been becoming more suspicious with every post she's made recently. Which is a shame because I thought she started out pretty well.

Have you been "seriously attacking someone" more than I have?

Well I went after yvonne mainly - but I think for the amount of posts you've done in this game, and I think it's fair to say you are the main contributor, I don't think you've done enough actual scum-hunting - just discussion encouraging (which as I said before was good in its own way).

[ThAdmiral]

Also you still didn't really address why you are voting for xtomx. The last time you mentioned it you said this:

We all jumped on xtoxm because he is the scummiest person here. That, or people just want to join the most justified wagon. Details to follow.

I'd like those details now if you please...

[ThAdmiral]

So, I was pretty convinced Yvonne was scum. That's why I was voting for her. Then Ecto comes along and gives the gut-feeling. Honestly, I wouldn't be voting for him were it not for Yvonne's behaviour, but since they are the same role, it's hard to ignore.

Answer me this - what is the number one reason you are voting ecto: the gut feeling or the fact that he replaced yvonne?

@ Neko - thank you for replying to my questions. Your response leads me to believe that you simply go about things differently to myself and many others. As you say yourself "scum-hunting is not just attacking someone. I see the discussion as scum-hunting".
I am interested in seeing how you play as the game progresses.

[ThAdmiral]

You seem to be desperately clinging to the Ecto/Yvonne-wagon, but you have nothing to back it up.

Agree. It does seem like the people still voting yvonne were just so sure that she was going to be the lynch today, and that they would get to night quickly, and when that fell through they didn't know what to do.

Long days are not advantages to town.

But they do get quite boring. Especially when the posting frequency is low.

You know, I don't really care who's lynched anymore.

Come on, dude.
Firstly I know that a long day can get boring, but they are certainly advantageous to the town.
Furthermore how can you say it is boring now, and there is low posting frequency? In my opinion it's really started to get

interesting

now!

As is true with so many things you only get out what you put in. So get involved!

@neko: I'm not going to respond to attempts to work me into a corner. If I respond one way I'm sure you'll have "countless" accounts of me being contradictory. As that's the angle you seem to be playing.

You're acting as if neko just pulled his arguments out of thin air.
He didn't.
And if you want to try and look less scummy then you should at least attempt to address them.