Haha, yes, that is a really long post. You should be sorry. =P
Okay, I've laid off actually mentioning much about the whole khelvaster v matt thing because I thought it was a messy arguement and I wasn't really inclined to either side. I think it's time I do though.
Like I said in the beginning, I thought khelvaster's logic went, and he just confirmed:
A name-claim would only be good if we assume that
a) all named people in the fellowship are town.
c) all 9 names in the fellowship have been used.
And I thought:
Anyway, since I really don't think 9 power roles would be appropriate, and giving a player a fellowship name but making him vanilla townie is pretty stupid, I think it's more likely that there are only as many fellowship members here as power roles, and claiming any name would mark you as a probable power role.
I haven't changed my opinions on khel. I still don't think the mod would have used all 9 fellowship names, which is why I wasn't inclined to agree to a name claim, but his logic on its own is not scummy, which is why I said I didn't really suspect khel.
What I'm posting about now though, is Matt. I'm inclined to think that Matt is really vanilla townie. As I see it:
1. I'm a townsman with no name and no powers
2. Other people without powers are townsmen without names
Read posts 12, 14, 15 and 28. Especially 12 and 28. I can't quote, because you need to take the whole thing in context, and I dont' want to quote his whole post. HE DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE PEOPLE WITH NAMES. His PM did not give him a name, or indicate that there were people with names. He thought all vanillas got the same PM as him. Before he came right out and explicitly said that he was unnamed in post 28, no one, except coolbot hinting, but not saying in 14, mentioned anything about nameless people.
In fact, Khelvaster's post 8 does not take into account nameless people. He mentions fellowship names, nazgul names, suggests unorthodox names, but NO NAMELESS PEOPLE. I'm inclined to think you had no idea there were nameless people until Matt came right out and said it. If you knew there were nameless people, you wouldn't have been so sure in your plan working.
3. If someone has a name, they aren't vanilla, a.k.a. power roles or possibly lying scum.
I think his PM did not in any way indicate other people had names. That's why he FOSd me and gsgold in post 28 for not saying, or implying, that we knew there were nameless people. He figured he wsn't the only one, and was looking for other people who had no names to come out and say it. That's why to him, named people were either power roles or scum. I think that's why you never mention the possibility of named vanillas, Matt - because you're vanilla and nameless, so you assumed all other vanillas must be too.
4. Everyone who asks for a name claim has a name or is scum.
The link between his 3rd and 4th point, is that he's a nameless vanilla. To him, that makes all other vanillas nameless. Anyone with a name then, is either a power role or scum.
Also,
4. Everyone who asks for a name claim has a name
He had no name, and didn't know others had names. People with the same PM as him, wouldn't have known of names, and wouldn't have asked for a name claim.
I think that khelvaster is a power role. I think that Matt is a vanilla townie. If you read back on the first few pages, you can tell quite easily that some people knew there were names and had no idea there were nameless, and some were nameless and had no idea there were named people. That's why Matt was looking for nameless people.
There's too many posts to quote, but if you read back the first few pages in this context, you can sort out everyone into one of those two categories based on their posts. It's no indication of scumminess either way though, which is why Matt dropped this line of reasoning.
The whole khelvaster v matt arguement won't lead to any scum either. Both of you, and everyone, were running on completely different understandings on the game, until after everyone became nameless. That's why khel didn't think his idea wouldn't work until it was pretty clear quite a number of us were nameless, and that's why matt is no longer hunting for nameless people. Granted, we're all nameless now, but he, and the other nameless, could have attacked people now based on who had names before, but didn't bother.
We need to hunt for scum from a different perspective and drop the wagons on khel and matt.
Also, =) for khel for knowing Merry's last name. Lord of the Rings kicks ass.