ZIL-thick-selm.Matt_S wrote:Vote Xylthixlmfor having an unpronounceable name.
Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!
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I'm all for arbitrary daykills, but announcing them beforehand is just silly. It takes all the fun out of the "OMG! A daykill! Who did it?! Do you think they're scum?!" reactions.Erg0 wrote:I'm not sure that threatening a dayvig based on a player's general knowledge could really be considered a scumtell.
Not that I think you actually have a daykill.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Jitsu wrote:Lynching and daykills are both fine, if done properly; it's the arbitrary part I disagree with.
Granted on D1, there is usually not much information to go on, but I still think that it is in the town's best interest to go for the highest percentage plays and those that give the most information, rather than choose targets arbitrarily.
Do you disagree?
Why did you assume that when I said "arbitrary", I meant definition 3b?Merriam-Webster wrote:Main Entry: ar·bi·trary
Function: adjective
1: depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law <the manner of punishment is arbitrary>
2 a: not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority <an arbitrary government> b: marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power <protection from arbitrary arrest and detention>
3 a: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something <an arbitrary standard> <take any arbitrary positive number> <arbitrary division of historical studies into watertight compartments — A. J. Toynbee> b: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will <when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary — Nehemiah Jordan>#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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I'm in favor of daykills being decided by the daykiller, by whatever method they want to use. If you know a better word for that than "arbitrarily", please suggest it. Personally, when I get a daykill, I tend to wait until day has lasted for a while and then just suddenly shoot the scummiest person.Guardian wrote:Xyl, did you mean definition 3b? If not, please explain what you did mean, and why you thought that it should not have been assumed that you meant 3b.
As for why I thought it shouldn't be assumed... well, in fact, I expected that some peoplewouldassume I meant "randomly". Take that however you like.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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At first I thought pickemgenius was referring to hispickemgenius wrote:I don't really like this post, it doesn't really say much.ownpost. I agree it doesn't say much, but I was wondering why he pointed it out....
You could start pointless arguments about the meaning of words, or you could fake-daykill random players. Although personally, I was almost hoping that one of those daykills was real. The whole "I'm voting X because X voted Y for a bad reason" "But that's a bad reason to vote X" thing is so ... boring.pickemgenius wrote:How else are you supposed to start convo, then with a good ol random BW?
Guardian's vote on Erg0 was random, and really, wedoneed a bandwagon. I don't see anything wrong with any of his other posts either. opie's attack on him in post 101 seems unfounded.
It's not much to go on, but it's a start. The fact that opie already has a bandwagon going is a bonus.
Unvote Matt_S, vote opie#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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I meant to vote for you. The confusion was in my reading the votecount.opie wrote:I just want to clarify something. Xylthixlm, in Post 118 you meant to vote for Oman?
I'm being confused for Oman now, am I? I'm not sure what to make of this.
*shakes ahead and walks away*#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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I like the telepathic method of finding scum, myself.opie wrote:In Mini 515, Adel replaced in. In her first few posts she introduced some innovative approaches to finding scum. I quickly jumped on her for being scum. I was wrong.
1. Read the game
2. Think very hard
3. Point out the scum#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Okay, scumdar time. My overall read on the game so far is that there really isn't enough interaction to pull out anything useful, so I expect these impressions to change rapidly.
Adel: Neutral; seems to be agitating things without a lot of logic. Talk of an algorithm is amusing. I'd love to know how many townies it has correctly identified, so I can compute error rates.
ChaosOmega: Only one post. Appears to have been active in other games, perhaps he forgot about this one.Mod: Can we get a prod on ChaosOmega?
Erg0: Leaning town. Seems to be looking for scum.
Guardian: Unsure. Asks a lot of questions, but doesn't seem to do anything with the answers.
Incognito: Neutral, leaning town. Asks a lot of questions, seems to be looking for scum. Needs to give more opinions.
Jitsu: Fairly town. Seems pretty sharp. Logical, actively looking for scum.
Matt_S: Slightly scummy. Wants random bandwagons that get people nowhere near lynch (what good does that do?). Strangely defensive of Erg0. Seems to want to stay under the radar.
Oman: Leaning town. Seems to be trying to generate discussion. Looking for connections.
opie: Clearly scum. I forget why. Oh yeah, his argument on Guardian makes no sense.
pickemgenius: Slightly scummy. Posts are not helpful.
TrustGossip: Slightly scummy. Posts are not helpful.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Adel, that doesn't answer the question. You gave numbers for 'scum correctly identified', 'scum misidentified as town', and 'town misidentified as scum'. Those numbers are absolutely useless unless you also give the number for 'town correctly identified'.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Considering that you haven't pointed out any inconsistencies in my posts, I have to agree.TrustGossip wrote:Xyl: Of course I'm not helpful. For example I'mhorribleat pointing out inconsistencies in your posts.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Of players your algorithm identified as scum, 3/7 were scum, or 43%.Adel wrote:game 1: 2 scum identified, 1 townie identified as scum, 8 other players left other than myself
game 2: 0 scum identified, 3 townies identified as scum, 8 other players left other than myself
game 3: 1 scum identified, 0 townie identified as scum, 4 other players left other than myself
Of players your algorithm identified as town, 4/13 were scum, or 31%.
I'm less than astonished.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled game of mafia.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Why are you so upset about being rated "slightly scummy"?TrustGossip wrote:I only whip out the bitch claws when someone is severely retarded.
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Votecount #7
Oman - 2 (Erg0, Jitsu)
pickemgenius - 2 (TrustGossip, Incognito)
Guardian - 2 (opie, Matt_S)
Erg0 - 2 (Guardian, Oman)
opie - 2 (Adel, Xylthixlm)
TrustGossip - 1 (pickemgenius)
Matt_S - 1 (ChaosOmega)
Not voting - 0 (nobody)
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
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TrustGossip pointed out one post where I made an error (I misread a votecount). I fail to see any other instances, but perhaps TrustGossip would be so kind to point out any I've missed.TrustGossip wrote:Xyl: Of course I'm not helpful. For example I'mhorribleat pointing out inconsistencies in your posts.
Oh wait, that's what I've succeeded the most at for this game.
If that is the only instance, and if pointing out my inconsistencies is in fact "what he's succeeded the most at for this game", that implies that he hasn't succeeded atanything elsefor the game.
I rest my case.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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This makes no sense.Matt_S wrote:I wish things could be more civil here. I'm seeing some insults coming from some people, which I just dislike.
FoS opie, mainly because he seems to be under the most attack and I'm seeing the most arguments against him.
This makes no sense.Matt_S wrote:FoS Xylthixlm, seems to be giving a lot of criticism and doesn't seem to be arguing against the major points.
This one makes sense, but I disagree with the FoS.Matt_S wrote:FoS Oman, for trying to throw suspicion on Guardian for following him, who did FoS before Oman's vote.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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opie's post 184 seems like a fairly townish reaction. It's enough to abate my suspicion for now.unvote opie
TrustGossip's violent response to an accusation of lurking tells me that he doesn't like attention.vote TrustGossip#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Adel's algorithm got the scum right 43% of the time. If he had picked the scumMatt_S wrote:2. You're arguing against Adel's scum catching which look really impressive to me. Having about half of your suspects on day 1 being scum is good. And I should probably say that the criticism I'm talking about is against points that they haven't made.totally at randomhe would have been right 35% of the time. The difference between those two numbers is not enough to impress me with his awesomeness.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Either you are not reading, or you have trouble with basic math. Picking at random would have produced 65% townies. Adel's method produced 57% townies. There is a difference, but it isn't large.Matt_S wrote:Except picking at random would produce a lot of townies as well, while Adel's method picks them almost 50:50.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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This is a ridiculous distraction from the game, but I can't resist my curiosity. What error do you think I have made?Adel wrote:You fail. 43% isn't an accurate number, but I was willing to let it pass the first time. Now you are throwing out 35%, which is another inaccurate number. Either drop the subject or get schooled in a most embarrassing way. Before you go back and check your addition and division here is a hint: you are doing it wrong.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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This is, quite possibly,Matt_S wrote:1. I've seen strong opinions against him, hence I'm going to reread tomorrow and see if it's well grounded. For now I'll have to go with everyone else's arguments. If everybody else was getting as much attention as him I probably wouldn't FoS him.themost stupid reason for a FoS I have ever seen. If that's a distancing attempt, it's badly done. If it's an attempt to look protown, it's badly done. If it's an attempt to find scum, it'sverybadly done.
In other words, I agree with Adel and Guardian.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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If you knew what answer wouldn't be viewed as suspicious, would you have given that one?Guardian wrote:Also, Incognito -- why wait until I answered? How could I have answered the question you asked differently and not have been found suspicious by you?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Matt_S's FoS on opie is really bugging me. It's so transparently opportunistic, it's almost too obvious for him to be scum. His FoS on me doesn't make sense to me either - I'm being too critical, but not arguing enough? I don't see his point.
Matt_S, do you agree with the arguments against opie? Why or why not? Why did you put an FoS on himbeforeyou read to see if the arguments are well grounded?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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To be honest, Matt_S's posts are making my brain melt when I try to read them. I'll see if I can dredge out any bits that make enough sense to talk about.
Let's see... he accuses me of "accusing others of OMGUS to avoid attacking their points". That must be about my response to TrustGossip. The only arguable point TrustGossip made was about the inconsistency of my posts, and I responded to that. I have to conclude that Matt_S didn't bother checking his facts.
The rest of Matt_S's argument, as far as I can tell, is that arguing about Abel's numbers is scummy and distracting. I'll admit to it being distracting, but Matt_S is the one who first made it an issue!
I'm unlikely to reply to any further responses from Matt_S unless they contain (a) good arguments and (b) sentence structure that doesn't make my brain try to flee through my ears.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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I just want to say...
Erg0 wrote:TrustGossip - I laughed when he voted Xyl and nobody followed him. His comment about Adel in 117, followed by his vote for Xyl in 119, make me think that TG believed Adel was setting a trap for someone to follow her in with a "too townie" argument, so he was trying to get town points by jumping on Xyl first. Nobody else followed, and he just kind of dropped it quietly and then unvoted 80-odd posts later. Later sniping could be distancing, too. IGMEOY.Aha!I was wondering what TrustGossip was smoking to lead to post 119. That explains a lot.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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I'm sorry. When I sawTrustGossip wrote:Getting town points and pointing things out and getting frustrated with lack of acknowledgement are two different things. I got snipy at Xyl because it took him about five posts to actually figure out what he did wrong. In addition I don't really know what he's doing trying to be so overeager to analyse other people's numbers that he gets them wrong in his analysis.
I thought you meantTrustGossip wrote:LOL TOO TOWNIE ROFL
rather thanTrustGossip wrote:GIBBERISH IN ALL CAPS ROFL
I'll try to work on my reading comprehension in the future.TrustGossip wrote:Xylthixlm just made a "too townie" argument.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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At this point I support a lynch of either Matt_S (for horrible, awful logic and general unhelpfulness) or TrustGossip (for weak logic, overdefensiveness, and deliberate lurking). I think I see what Adel and pickemgenius have on opie and Incognito, but the case seems weak. I prefer not to draw connections until we have some alignment info.
Adel, of your three suspects, why do you want to lynch opie today?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Well, before I can explain that, I'd have toMatt_S wrote:Xylthixlm: What exactly is bad about my logic?understandyour logic. And I'm afraid my mind doesn't bend that far.
Instead, how about you explain your logic better, and then I'll tell you why it's wrong.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Pros: Guardian isn't being overdefensive. He doesn't use crap arguments to derail the case on him.pickemgenius wrote:you should be reading Guardians response to Incognito please.
Cons: He is doing it deliberately, rather than naturally (which makes it less of a town tell). He seems to be paying attention to how many people suspect him.
Overall I'd say that post is solidly neutral on the tell-o'-meter.
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Votecount #12
opie - 4 (Adel, Oman, Guardian, ChaosOmega)
Guardian - 2 (opie, Incognito)
Oman - 1 (Jitsu)
Xyltixlm - 1 (Matt_S)
TrustGossip - 1 (pickemgenius)
Jitsu - 1 (Erg0)
Matt_S - 1 (Xylthixlm)
Not voting - 1 (TrustGossip)
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
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You forgot to provide your reasoning.ChaosOmega wrote:He had the most. He's in the top 3 on my list. I don't know if I'd rank him the most suspicious, but he's definitely close. A lot of his posts seem really...passive. I guess that's the best word. Like he's just trying to smooth things over. It could just be that he happens to be under the most heat and he's being defensive because of it, but he was posting like that before he got the wagon going on him.
As for other people I'm suspicious of, the top 3 would also include Xylthixlm and Incognito.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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I don't see Jitsu's reaction as scummy.Erg0 wrote:I take it that my case on Jitsu hasn't set anyone's world on fire? Comments would be nice.
But if you wanted to set my world on fire, you could vote Matt_S or TrustGossip.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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I hope I'm not the only person who finds this scummy.ChaosOmega wrote:
I didn't forget. I'm just not going to follow up on it too much yet. Besides, there's more of day 1 for me to watch your actions without me saying what actions of yours I'm watching.Xylthixlm wrote:You forgot to provide your reasoning.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Post 184Jitsu wrote:@Xylthixlm: What specifically about Opie's post 184 gave you a townie reaction on him?
He addressed all the suspicion I had on him without cracking or getting frustrated from the pressure. He didn't get so caught up in his own defense that he stopped looking at other people.
It has something to do with "distancing", which if I understand correctly is a mechanism where scum leave deliberate breadcrumbs about who their scumbuddies are. I don't understand why scum on this site are so kind, but I'll take any gifts they want to give usJitsu wrote:@Adel: Can you explain why you think Matt_S's probability of being scum is dependant on Opie being scum?#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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From my experience on this site so far, when a scum dies, anyone who he or she called scummy but didn't try to lynch is theAdel wrote:er, distancing is where two scumbuddies call each other scummy so that when one is discovered to be scum the other looks more townie. It is similar to bussing, just without the lynch.firstto attract attention as a possible scumbuddy.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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What do you mean by "arbitrary"?Guardian wrote:Jitsu, because the game was just beginning, and picking something to find suspicious is often a really great starting point. Finding his joking suspicious wasarbitrary, as I said.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Guardian was one of the people who thought "arbitrary" meant "random". He then went on to use the word himself to not mean "random". I find that incredibly amusing.opie wrote:With regard to Post 340, why do you want to discuss the definition of arbitrary again?!
I don't have enough time to analyze the thread right now. I'll get to it later if I'm not too tired, but it might have to wait for the weekend.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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I'm here, just much busier than I used to be. (It turns out that being gainfully employed takes more time than being a college student, especially with an hour commute each way.)
Guardian reads mildly protown to me. opie, not so much - his signal to noise ratio is too low. Since we're close to deadline, the chance of starting a completely new bandwagon is nil, and nobody else sees what I do about Matt_S,
unvote Matt_S, vote opie#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Guardian's recent posts seem to be moving the game forward - he gives opinions, looks for scummy people, and picks out significant points of other people's posts. This post and this post both give me a good feeling about him. I think he's more likely than average to be town.Jitsu wrote:
Since I've generally thought of you as town, I'm interested in your opinions. I'm wondering why Guardian is reading pro-town to you -- the last I remember he was coming up neutral to you. Also, is there any other reason (besides signal-to-noise ratio) why Opie is reading less town to you?Xylthixlm wrote:Guardian reads mildly protown to me. opie, not so much - his signal to noise ratio is too low.
As for opie, I can't figure out what his opinions are from a casual read. He types a lot that looks important, but by the time I get to the end of the paragraph I'm not sure what his point was. That makes me nervous.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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It is wagonny. I'm trying to deflect the lynch away from Guardian, who I think is more pro-town.Erg0 wrote:Tum te tum.
Xyl: Can you please explain your vote on opie a little more? The last time you mentioned him you didn't seem to find him particularly suspicious, so your recent vote looks pretty wagonny.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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All this talk of who might be bussing who on day 1 makes my eyes glaze over. It's interesting to speculate on, but without any alignment info it's essentially shooting in the dark.Incognito wrote:Not significantly less suspicious but certainly less suspicious. I feel like Adel's case and the subsequent opie-wagon spurred off of your backhanded response to opie's/Jitsu's case against you from way earlier in the game. Your response was too slippery to fall into the realm of busing, in my eyes.
Right now, between Guardian and opie, I have a pretty good feeling on Guardian and a neutral to scummy read on opie. I'm going to stay on the opie wagon because it's the only way to keep Guardian from being deadline lynched.
I just did a review of Matt_S's recent posts, and it appears he hasn't done anything scummy in the last wee- er, the last couple d- well, in his last two posts. I'm oddly disappointed.#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi-
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Xylthixlm !xmafia win
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