Mini Normal 1888 - TwoFace Mafia - Game Over
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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agreeIn post 13, FireScreamer wrote:
Disagree.In post 12, mozamis wrote:"He said that some things are really best left unspoken,
But I prefer it all to be out in the open..." (Billy Bragg, "Sexuality").
Good advice for playing as town!
Lets all be out in the open as possible as town and screw scum over!-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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didn't I have the same? why does fires wagon bother you?In post 44, DogWatch wrote:Fire has three votes now with zero reasoning behind them. Can the three of you explain? We're getting out of the rvs stage at this point. Which reminds me to remove my random vote UNVOTE:
wagons are good early on. also, this game progressed out of RVS very fast which is nice.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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I don't know what kinda townie you are, but I try my ass off to not get lynched regardless of alignment. this is utter bullshit.In post 85, Shadow_step wrote:
More like I'm not the IC and this is not a newbie game so I'm not gonna waste my energy on explaining basic mafia stuff that everyone should know.In post 80, FireScreamer wrote:
"I don't have an answer to this. Quick his forum title says goon, discredit him!"In post 78, Shadow_step wrote:
You'll know with experience.In post 75, FireScreamer wrote:
This.In post 73, Barleycorn wrote:
what questions has dogwatch ignored?In post 71, Shadow_step wrote:**ignores every question asked to it**
Also in what world is building alternatives to yourself something that only has scum incentives?
Scum are survivalistic, town are less so. As town you're not as worried about getting lynched as you are as scum. As scum you quickly want a CW. As town you're more relaxed.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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In post 71, Shadow_step wrote:**ignores every question asked to it**
**let me create a counter wagon to my wagon**
Basically scum who's scared of getting lynched.
Everyone pile on DogwatchIn post 76, Shadow_step wrote:
You just quoted it in your previous post.In post 73, Barleycorn wrote:
what questions has dogwatch ignored?In post 71, Shadow_step wrote:**ignores every question asked to it**In post 81, Shadow_step wrote:
I don't care about aromagrundy. Dog watch is scum.In post 77, FireScreamer wrote:
So by every question you meant one question that could easily be read as rhetorical?In post 76, Shadow_step wrote:
You just quoted it in your previous post.In post 73, Barleycorn wrote:
what questions has dogwatch ignored?In post 71, Shadow_step wrote:**ignores every question asked to it**
Seems like you are misrepresenting things in the face of pressure on grundy's awful logic. Don't worry. Once she flips i'm coming after you.In post 85, Shadow_step wrote:
More like I'm not the IC and this is not a newbie game so I'm not gonna waste my energy on explaining basic mafia stuff that everyone should know.In post 80, FireScreamer wrote:
"I don't have an answer to this. Quick his forum title says goon, discredit him!"In post 78, Shadow_step wrote:
You'll know with experience.In post 75, FireScreamer wrote:
This.In post 73, Barleycorn wrote:
what questions has dogwatch ignored?In post 71, Shadow_step wrote:**ignores every question asked to it**
Also in what world is building alternatives to yourself something that only has scum incentives?
Scum are survivalistic, town are less so. As town you're not as worried about getting lynched as you are as scum. As scum you quickly want a CW. As town you're more relaxed.In post 86, Shadow_step wrote:
By why is he asking reasons for rvs votes ? What is the point of asking reasons for RVS votes ? How does one person being on 3 votes on day 1 such a big deal?In post 82, Barleycorn wrote:
it looked rhetorical. are you saying that you wanted dogwatch to answer the question: "concerned townie much?"In post 76, Shadow_step wrote:
You just quoted it in your previous post.In post 73, Barleycorn wrote:
what questions has dogwatch ignored?In post 71, Shadow_step wrote:**ignores every question asked to it**
how would one answer that anyway?since when is ignoring a RHETORIC question scum indicative? this is blatantly misrepping a situation. also in reply to 71: it isn't scum afraid of getting lynched, i5s nai newb afraid of getting lynched. I'm really annoyed how you're trying to push a lynch on a newbie for awful reasonig this early. you're right, you're not an ic, but that doesn't mean you should be an asshole. he's new, I called him out a bit for the rvs vote questioning too. that's not scum indicative at all. but actually, viewing your iso, you've been tunnelling him from your first post.
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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sheep me?In post 111, FireScreamer wrote:
I go from saying that I understand how X can be perceived as a possible scumtell to going after some bad logic and clear misrepresentation from Shadow_Step. I'll go after those things wherever I see them regardless of who they are on. Do you think Shadow_step's arguments were well founded?In post 110, aronagrundy wrote:You go from scumreading him to defending him, that's a 180-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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where have I repeated what others said?In post 120, aronagrundy wrote:VOTE: eddie cane
His case on shadow seems opportunistic. And he basically just repeats what others have said.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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I did use the word rhetoric from him, yes. to be honest I'd probably use sarcastic myself. fitebringer brought up the idea of shadowstep. however, I think shadow step is more likely to flip scum than you. asshole is not filler in this context - it is scum indicative. the line about the IC is what it's in reference to - i only have mobile so I don't type walls or do fancy shmanymcy multi quoting often. there was no need to bring up he wasn't an ic, he was simply omgusing indirectly.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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It is indeed a counterwagon to dog. you should probably vote me over fire though as I did take his argument.In post 130, Transcend wrote:Fos Eddie as well. Shadow is a shit counterwagon to Fire.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Most smaller mafia sites don't like rvs. They don't understand the benefit. RQS is much more common, as to them it starts discussion, even if it's NAI discussion it has a purpose I guess.In post 150, Keyser Söze wrote:The three votes on Fire:
This looks like a naked RVS vote.
I.e I do not expect Pants98 to be supporting their vote with a reason of substance or deep/genuine suspicion.
Likewise here.
Why would you suspect this is a sheep vote on substance?
Third vote:This looks like another classic RVS vote. I would not flag FrankJaeger's naked vote as opportunistic. Wagons and reactions are information.
How long have you been playing mafia?In post 147, DogWatch wrote:I don't really understand Rvs then I guess, never heard of it until I started looking at games on this site.
Don't they have random votes / random questions where you're from?-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Well, he produced a shadow tr. that's... a stance, anyways.In post 183, Barleycorn wrote:
:/In post 181, DogWatch wrote:I need to go back through moz and aronas ISO, but out of that group, I'd say one of them.
i was looking for something closer to a name.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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slight scum lean. the thing about his interactions with shadow is that could easily be SvS, shadow did push him but on weak ass logic (which I am voting him for). it is definktely within the realm of possibility that was very early distancing, i havent played with either of them before so im unaware of meta. Shadow flipping scum doesn't clear dog, and dog flipping scum doesn't clear shadow.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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In post 30, DogWatch wrote:dude I JUST admitted you probably weren't noob scum like I originally read, and you're going to call me opportunist? This feels very reactionary, like an omgus
these pinged me. the first is just spamming trigger words; "reactionary", "omgus". the second doesn't make much sense when he later posts that his previous site doesn't use rvs, it's implying that he understands rvs ("were getting out atp") while at the same time later saying he doesn't get rvs. his interaction with shadow is also a part of the reasoning.In post 44, DogWatch wrote:Fire has three votes now with zero reasoning behind them. Can the three of you explain? We're getting out of the rvs stage at this point. Which reminds me to remove my random vote UNVOTE:-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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In post 44, DogWatch wrote:Fire has three votes now with zero reasoning behind them. Can the three of you explain? We're getting out of the rvs stage at this point. Which reminds me to remove my random vote UNVOTE:
I think we agree dog doesn't understand Rvs. my interpretation is that his initial post is potentially trying to appear like he's contributing to discussion while not actually taking any sort of stance. he clearly doesn't get rvs, so immediately attacking a small wagon that formed during rvs could be "oh, lemme defend this wagon, their votes are all naked so they won't have a case and I'll look good".In post 152, DogWatch wrote:I played on a small site back in 2007-2008. Haven't played since. RVS wasn't a thing. Random questions were usually how we started, but I read some games on this site and it looks like RQS is an instant scum read which blows my mind. I don't really know how to play on this site yet. I'm used to games based around night decisions/analysis, items, numerous power roles, crazy gimmicks, etc. This site just looks like endless day phase squabbling to me.
If there's nothing weird about those three fire votes in the context of this site , I'm cool with that. I just didn't interpret it that way at the time.
I have an eight hour drive ahead of me, so I'll be back on later tonight/early tomorrow.
and yes, that's not the strongest case on the world, remember dog is only slightly on the scum side for me.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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It's on the tangent that scumdog, not getting rvs, tried to use rvs related votes for town cred but it failed because he doesn't get rvs. they aren't mutually exclusive. or, it could be towndog taking a small rvs wagon too seriously.In post 205, Barleycorn wrote:189 - dogwatch said we're out of rvs, but then he said he doesn't get rvs. this is inconsistent.
case 2 - scum!dogwatch, not getting rvs, thought he could get towncred by jumping on what he saw as 3 unsupported and therefore bad votes.
i am annoyed that you don't see these as distinct. or is my interpretation of your 189 incorrect?In post 189, Eddie Cane wrote:In post 30, DogWatch wrote:dude I JUST admitted you probably weren't noob scum like I originally read, and you're going to call me opportunist? This feels very reactionary, like an omgus
the second doesn't make much sense when he later posts that his previous site doesn't use rvs, it's implying that he understands rvs ("were getting out atp") while at the same time later saying he doesn't get rvs.In post 44, DogWatch wrote:Fire has three votes now with zero reasoning behind them. Can the three of you explain? We're getting out of the rvs stage at this point. Which reminds me to remove my random vote UNVOTE:-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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bro I'm really confused with what you're saying. what questions am I ignoring?In post 210, Barleycorn wrote:you are giving me head pains.
in 188 i ask you where your scum lean of dog comes from.
in 189 you tell me it's (in part) because dog said we were out of rvs, but then said he didn't get rvs, which doesn't make sense according to you. the other parts of the scum lean are his interaction with shadow and his use of trigger words.
interjection - why is a new player using 'trigger words' scum indicative?
in 190 i ask an unclear question that's basically hinting that there was no inconsistency in dog's play. i revise this question in 197.
in 191 you come up with anewcase that bypasses my question. then in 194 you bypass my question again by incorrectly saying I was asking you to do meta analysis.
the two points i've made that you seem not to understand are -
1. that the case you make starting from 191 is absent in 189 and
2. that there is a distinct case in 189 that i asked you about, and that you subsequently abandoned
work with me to figure this out or i'm voting you.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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I think the confusion is this. I'm explaining what I interpreted you asking me to explain. I'm not making a case against dog because I'm not voting him, I'm voting shadow. so a new argument in another post might seem strange, but it's more me trying to answer you and get my words out, it's not me trying to convince you to vote dog.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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doesn't this answer that?In post 239, Eddie Cane wrote:I think the confusion is this. I'm explaining what I interpreted you asking me to explain. I'm not making a case against dog because I'm not voting him, I'm voting shadow. so a new argument in another post might seem strange, but it's more me trying to answer you and get my words out, it's not me trying to convince you to vote dog.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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In post 274, Shadow_step wrote:I get that but why aren't you responding to me directly?-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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bro I can feel your frustration sorry, it's just not clicking for me. maybe someone else could reword it?In post 287, Barleycorn wrote:
holy ****In post 285, Eddie Cane wrote:the post was directly in reply to you asking why he's a slight scum lean for me.
189 was in direct reply. but what was contained in 189 was a bad argument. 190 was my question about that bad argument. 191 is your response. 191 is not a bad argument but it is a different argument.
if you still disagree with this i am going to leave it because, again, i believe you did not make up 191 after i asked 190, and if 284 doesn't get my dissonance across nothing will. if both of these are true this conversation has little point.-
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bad
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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said play has got him mislynched as a pr multiple times, among other things. I think transcend is definitely a solid player but I don't really see it as "flaunting"; could you quote said flaunt?In post 324, Keyser Söze wrote:He's flaunting his impenetrable scum play and town play.
I can't see how you can instantly jump to town on him (unless you're sharing many of his same reads)
also, one vote with no explanation really shouldn't create pressure logically but it often can anyways, some people can and do get nervous easily, as both alignments but moreso as scum.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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of course his reads list is fluid at this stage, it's silly to suggest a list like that would be rock solid at all nevermind early day 1.In post 351, Keyser Söze wrote:
Explain to me how I went from one of your top town leans to one of your top scum leans (in your own words).In post 226, FireScreamer wrote:Read on Keysar I like though. Should maybe have put him under or on Eddie's spot actually.
It makes me question the sincerity of your early reads list. I'm generally not a fan of early readslists on D1.-
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In post 226, FireScreamer wrote:Going from calling out LAMIST to being LAMIST seems like an odd progression as the first two things you do in a game. I read looking for reasoning on me as an attempt to garner my favour as really it doesn't do much else.Read on Keysar I like though. Should maybe have put him under or on Eddie's spot actually.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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hey btw fire, what about this iso warrants being so high on your list?-
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Oh, so he's just null. I interpreted it as townie the way you said "everyone below pants"In post 370, FireScreamer wrote:
Pants is the stone median of the list. If you can't understand why...In post 368, Eddie Cane wrote:hey btw fire, what about this iso warrants being so high on your list?-
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what game was that? I think I remember lurkingIn post 391, gerryoat wrote:
Oh you mean that game when I tried to lynch both scum and save the game, but town lynched my TRs instead? Yeah, I remember that game!! SO useless.In post 348, mozamis wrote:he looks even more useless than when he was a mason-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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Why.
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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:/In post 348, mozamis wrote:vote gerryoats
he looks even more useless than when he was a mason. and at least then he did sometimes make the effort. no effort at all so far.
coasting scum or useless town?
either way, not a bad day 1 lynch.-
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Eddie Cane Jack of All Trades
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In post 137, FrankJaeger wrote:Not sure if arona is town or scum yetIn post 138, FrankJaeger wrote:In post 125, aronagrundy wrote:
I don't believe that logical flaws are necessarily scummy. Being inconsistent over a period of time is, repeatedly using bad logic is, but not just one instance. And he hasn't even responded yet.In post 123, FireScreamer wrote:
Why is starting a wagon on someone at 0 votes opportunistic?In post 120, aronagrundy wrote:VOTE: eddie cane
His case on shadow seems opportunistic. And he basically just repeats what others have said.
If someone has pointed out the logical flaws in someone's posts and you agree with it, why shouldn't you vote them?
But at the same time this early in the game it's fine to go off of them imo. That's just my thought process.
W/r/t eddie, it's opportunistic in the sense that he's using your logic (@eddie, i'll quote in a sec) to give the appearance of acting town.
This is kinda scummy.In post 106, aronagrundy wrote:
What do you make of his 180 on dog?In post 102, mozamis wrote:oh, and fire's responses look town. he seems measured and questioning his attackers in a "i dont care, i'm innocent" kinda way.
time to stop voting fire.In post 142, FrankJaeger wrote:Moza maybe scum.In post 245, FrankJaeger wrote:Prolly going to vote moz when i have time to iso, and eloquate(is that a word)In post 429, FrankJaeger wrote:Prob day off 2mar
Real quick tho-
Thinking aro is scum now. His recent posts are anti townatleast
Nothings changed with moz
Trans is null wtf with the votes tho
Keyser is prob town, and i don't get why he's being antagonized
Dog looking town.
Other players i need to go over.
Also there is way to much arguing about semantics.
VOTE: aro
putting moz to l-1 with both very minimal reasoning and without even saying it was l-1. cool.
so, going over the iso: rvs vote, random fos, says a player may or may not be scum (lol), quotes followed with a non-committal sr, rvs unvote, replies to a random Gerry quip, says another person may be scum, "prevote" (idk the word for this), finally a post that at least says something commital kind of, and then putting moz to l-1 with no warning.
this is awful. particularly the moz vote and stuff like 137 and 142. non-committal comments like that don't even contribute to the thread; newsflash, popping in and saying someome being scum is a possibility does not help discussion. I'm happy with my vote here.-
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what about Frank's vote triggers your scum radar personally as opposed to myself, momo or even transcend?In post 506, DogWatch wrote:For what it's worth I agree with you on franks vote, i would be willing to truce with you and go that route
nobody answer for him.-
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your scum read list is every person excluding transcend who voted moz after your vote... ?_?In post 522, DogWatch wrote:it's been mostly town, but I haven't gone deep into his ISO either. this most recent interaction with him does have a slightly scummy vibe.
Similar to what fire just said, my town leans have been more plentiful this game than my scum leans, so I'm intrigued at the moment that some of the lurkers have been scum all along. It does seem odd that the moment momo came on board, that particular slot gained negative attention.
So, at the moment, my scum leans would probably be momo, frank, and maybe eddie. I've waffled a lot on moz, but I'm willing to come off that at least temporarily.-
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Town- trying to see if reads are genuine. Wants attention on someone he thinks is scum.In post 549, Eddie Cane wrote:let's go back to Frank. selynee, any thoughts? barley, why momo over frank?-
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