Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[tyhess]

VOTE: TROJANHORSE

because a trojan horse went into the town and and attacked people

[tyhess]

Vote: Dr. Blackstrike

Because he is acting weird imo. Everthing he's saying is acting a little.......off center..

[tyhess]

Vote: Dr. Blackstrike

Because he is acting weird imo. Everthing he's saying is acting a little.......off center..

[tyhess]

that didn't work out......and i can't figure out how to edit my posts?????

[tyhess]

I am going to keep my vote on the doctor. His posts just seem, well, weird. However, I find myself agreeing with him (like Trojan Horse) about the voting. I think he has a valid point, but the way it was posted seemed to pro-scum

[tyhess]

oppurtunisitc.....hmmmmm.......probably....I've been called that before for, but for better reason than in a mafia game. And as far as the short post.....I follow the KISS theory (Keep it simple, stupid), unless I have something big to say, or, like now, I'm being voted for.....


As far as the doctor vote, everybody (or almost everybody) has agreed that his post was weird. I haven't been on for a couple of days becasue of my internet messing up (for like the 100th time), and reading the posts, I will

UNVOTE: DOCTOR

[tyhess]

What u said had absolutly nothing to do with me unvoting. I went back and reread the 3-4 days worth of posts that I missed, so that's why I unvoted.

[tyhess]

Everything can and will be used against you by others in the game. Trust nobody.

[tyhess]

I'm going to switch up the order of the questions a little bit.....

How does his posts seem pro-scum?

His first few posts were about how the vanilla townies should give themselves up so that they did not get recruited into the cult. To me, this was very proscum, and most have agreed with me.....

What parts did you agree with in reference to Dr. BS's posts (or were valid)?


and a new one, if you think his posts seem pro-scum, why did you unvote?

The reason I unvoted is because of the explanations that have been given for Doctor. He (and others) have explained how that first post could be seen as not necessarily protown, but not as proscum as I thought it was. If I see anything else by Doctor that I think is proscum, obviously I'll go right back to voting for him......

[tyhess]

I misinterpreted what he meant. What he said seemed pro scum, but others have convinced me they were suppose to be pro town, but came out wrong. ( I'm probably confusing you because I'm confusing myself right now). There wasn't any one thing that convinced me he was pro town, it was when his theory was explained by him and others as pro town that I decided to switch because I now saw what he originally meant. If I remember right, other people did the same thing....

I'm still going to be watching him closely, but I will keep my vote off of him until I think the times right.....

[tyhess]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #6

theopor_COD[3](Oman, vollkan, tyhess)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
tyhess[1](curiouskarmadog)
Dr. Blackstrike[1](Mastermind of Sin)


Not Voting[6](ac1983fan, pwayne66, Flameaxe, Rump-Wat, Trojan Horse, theopor_COD)

. Tyhess votes Dr calls him weird and then he wants to edit posts.

The reason I tried to edit my post was becasue it was all bold and then becasue i double posted. Think about it.

Something else,
Theo wrote:

Mainly because he jumped to the Doctor's defence

and now,
Theo wrote:

I don't like pwayne more for his suggestion to not use pressure votes and bully players etc. Plus his recent list doesn't sit too well with me.

Subtle shift. People criticise you for voting on the basis of Pwayne defending BS, so you shift you main reason to being the opposition to bullying, which was a minor factor from before.

If your going to lie about your postion do not, under any circumstances, change your story, especially when you are righting it down in a game where that type of thing is looked for. I'm all for lying in a game like this when you have to, but do not change your story. Noone can trust you and you look like scum.

For that:

Vote: THEO

[tyhess]

I would have to say that I agree with everything said by pwayne about how believing you have found scum and using bullying tactics........I hadn't seen this yet by my last post or i would posted this on my last post.

[tyhess]

I would have to say that I agree with everything said by pwayne about how believing you have found scum and using bullying tactics........I hadn't seen this yet by my last post or i would posted this on my last post.

wait, what?

I am not bullying you...I just want you to back up your vote, just like everyone else..

I am not even sure I understand this post either..[/quote


Woh sorry dude I wasn't talking about you, or anyone in particular. I was just saying I agreed with the post.



And Oman. Everthing That I beleive about Theo was summed up by Vollkwagon.

[tyhess]

Yeah okay, you take my cult piece of cake.

Now why am I voting for the suspected mafia instead of suspected cultist? Because I have limited experience with cults and I'm afraid that a town player would act remarkably like a cultist, especially a powerrole.

I agree with oman about scumhunting at this point, but the cultists acting like the town at this point?? I would think that the cultist would rather be looking for vanilla townies as much as he's looking for the scum. That's how he's going to win-recruiting townies. If I was a cultist that would be my goal at this point.

[tyhess]

I also agree on the part about dealing with future cultist actions later, but my original point was that, if anything, the cultist would be more trying to find out who the most likely is to be a townie, and find ways to force people into spilling their hand on being townies (ie bullying, which like I said earlier I don't agree with to an extent). I get that he's going to try to act like town, but he will have a different outlook because he will not be looking for both the mafia and the cultist like the vanilla townies, he will be looking for scum and vanilla townies instead-the difference would be slight, but there still would be a difference.

[tyhess]

You scum because you can't count!!!!!


Kidding

[tyhess]

Volkawagon your putting word in my mouth your scum too jsut like the people that can't count!!!!!!!

[tyhess]

TRYING TO EDIT HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING BUT TRYING TO DELETE A POST. Just so everyone know that and stops saying I'm scum for trying to edit my post.

[tyhess]

Yeah I can see how that would look. That's just my style of play, changing quickly with what I feel is right, but I can see how that looks scummy.

[tyhess]

Sometimes I Just act weird like that. I didn't look at it like overreacting; I wasn't mad or anything, I was just throwing that out there because people kept saying it, and I wanted to use CAPS. I looked at it like having a good time writing a post. That's probably not a good idea in this game, but whatever.

[tyhess]

Ok I see how that would be seen as overdrive.....I thought that that was one of the main reasons that he was voting for me.


I remember someone else mentioning that against me at one point, but now I can't seem to find it?????/

[tyhess]

White, you really didn't answer his question.....he asked where he said any of those things and then you go on and say that he has a responsibility of cathing scum as a protown person, which brigns up another point.

Why would you automatically assume that MoS is protown??? I'm not saying that he isn't, but we really don't know anything yet.....The way you said it seems a little suspicious.....


However, I agree with your point that there is really no reason to do a dice roll on page 4, but that doesn't meen someone's scum.

[tyhess]

True. Maybe he could refrain from accusing people of whining and having crap ideas until then.

It's how I play, suck it up and get used to it. Some people around here would call it agressive.

Obviously all your doing is being is beign aggressive.....but his point is valid. I like how you read 4 pages and then commented, but stop "whining and having crap ideas" not related to the pages that you have read so far.

[tyhess]

My Scumdar (in case anyone cares)

Some are pretty short, but whatever.....this is what I think:

Mastermind of Sin:

He was the one that had a random vote on Page 4, which I thought was a littles scummish, but that has been explained as just not being there. I still don't like the vote, but I will give him the benefit of doubt (For now)

Oman:

No read yet. I know it's late in the game, but I'm still going to wait him out.

ac1983fan:

No read (obviously).....needs to post......possibly the cultist and just reading posts???? probably not, but possible

Dr. Blackstrike:

I've been keeping my eye on the Doc since his original idea. Someone thought that his quick apology for the idea was good for him, but I think it made it even more suspicious.

curiouskarmadog:

Nothing scummish imo yet.

pwayne66:

Pro-town, imo

vollkan:

Pro-town, imo

Trojan Horse:

Interseting player. At times I have thought scum, but don't really have a real read on him yet.

Flameaxe:

Same as Trojan Horse

White (r. Rump-Wat):

Is posting A LOT. He says aggressive, and I'm starting to actually beelive him. He is doing the exact same thing in the other game I'm in with him. So either he's scum in both games, or that is his play style. For now I'll beleive him.....I think that as much talknig as he's doing has to be pro-town.

theopor_COD:

Still my vote. Possibility to change quickly.

[tyhess]

Tyhess, I am a little confused.

theopor_COD: Still my vote. Possibility to change quickly.

And yet you express no suspicion of anybody, other then that you are watching BS over the stuff from page 2.

As such, why do you say you vote could change quickly? It almost looks like you are trying to give yourself a way out to jump on a wagon.

I thought it was clear that if anything happened suspicious to MoS, Oman, Doc, Trojan Horse, Flameaxe, or White I wouldn't hesitate to jump on them for it. I wasn't trying to say I'd jump on a bandwagon, I said if I would find a good reason that I would vote for them.

[tyhess]

I don't think we're getting anywhere either by looking at everybody at the same time. I think we should all post the 3 people that we think are the most scummish at this point, and see who the top 3 are as far as a group goes. From their, we attack/question/go into/try to figure out those 3 poeoples "agendas" until about Sunday. If we all think they are clean, then we can try to attack/question/etc the next 3. We have about 13 days left, and since it is day one, I think we need to come up with someone that we can almost all agree on to be scum and to lynch.



My top 3:
theo
MoS
Doc

[tyhess]

oman......look at page 13, close to the top, and it had what i think about all of them (and everybody else)

[tyhess]

What makes you think ac1983 may be cult out of interest? I was leaning much more towards mafia.

ac being cult goes with something I said earlier......I think that the culist would be acting more to find out the town (ie lurking) than a mafia would be, considering he knows that all but one person is protown. It's not a strong lead, because he might just have forgotten about this game, but that is why I see him as a potential cultist, and more so than scum.

[tyhess]

Seriously though theo wtf are you talking about.....I was starting to think that you might be protown, but then you post this and no one else can figure out what your talking about??? With 10 other players, not counting you or myself, you would figure one of them would know what your talking about. Please explain.

[tyhess]

That was just an English mistake then.....I meant to say that the mafia knows that all but one person is protown....

[tyhess]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point....we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

[tyhess]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point....we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

it might be you are just new or something, but I think almost everyone of your post bother me at some level...(not sure why)

at any rate, what do you mean, the town should work togther and narrow down who we are attacking? What are we doing now that you do not like?

It's just the fact that there are multiple votes on about 1/3 of the people......I think we need to work more on going after maybe 3 people (and I know I'll probably end up within this group, but whatever), and try to if not say that we think they are scum, to eliminate them from us thinking their scum, at least for Day1. I think that it would be more productive and that we would be able to get the most done that way because instead of focusing on 12 people, we would be putting all of our attention on 3.

[tyhess]

I think that this goes right into what pwayne said...we are not working together at this point .... we need to try to narrow down who we are attacking.......i realize that I'm probably going to be one of the 3, but I think it will be the easiest way to find the scum.

How do you propose we "work together"?

Also you are implying that there is some benefit in only focussing on a small number of people.

cross post, but:

I'm thinking that it would be more beneficial to focus on the 3 people because then it'll a smaller list of suspects for like 4-5 days. By working together, I just mean that at this point its person(s) vs person and not group vs. person. It would be a lot easier to work against only 3 people, compared to 12.

[tyhess]

As for the cult issue which everyone has gone ape at me over, Tyhess included, it was the fact Tyhess commented that the cultist knows that only

one

other person wasn't town. When obviously there's two mafioso. Seems pretty stupid if your scum and can't remember how many of em they are, meh maybe I'm reading too much into it, Tyhess's play doesn't exactly deserve a pass does it.

yo theo did you see me write this post????:

That was just an English mistake then.....I meant to say that the mafia knows that all but one person is protown....

I think that explains how you misinterpretted my English mistake as saying that the cultist thinks there was only one other person, compared to what I meant to say was that the mafia knew their was only 1 person they didn't know (the cultist).







And Vollkan, I thought about that propping up to, but I think that if we focused on A, B, and C and then something fishy comes up, and after 4-5 days we don't find anything on A,B,C, then we start to attack 2 + 4.

Your other point was about if we went to 1,2,3 and A+C were scummy. I think that's the only valid case against doing it this way. However, we would do it the same way as above. We would finish "investigating" 1,2,3 and then, if we think A +C are scummy again, we'll go back to them.


And for the thing about not having a consensus top 3. That's why i think we need to all vote for a top 3 and then go after the 3 with the most votes. That goes into what I've been saying....there is no consensus top 3, which results in not going after the same person, which results in people possibly being able to slip out of problems that they have created for themselves.

[tyhess]

Trojan, I don't think that it would be to smart to vote for ac.....for all intense and purposes we have no info on him, so even if we do kill him, we have nothing to help us go by in the next round.......Plus, if we just kill the lurker, and he's not scum, then its down to 10 people, with 2 scum, 1 cultist, and possibly a cult recruit. Not good for the town. I think that it would be smarter to go with someone that we atleast have a little but of info against to vote for.


And white......i wasn't thinking a long time, I'm not even saying a full day, i'm thinking maybe 4-5 (real)days most, which would give us about a week if we find nothing in the first 3. I'd like to see what others other than you and vollkan think, however........

[tyhess]

White: the deadline is the 1st. We have about 12 days left, not 6.

[tyhess]

Ok, MoS, time for you to redeem yourself in my eyes (which I know you think are unwarranted, but that's another topic). So what are you trying to accomplish that most think is doing nothing?

[tyhess]

That doesn't make sense MoS....your portraying yourself as a vanilla townie who wants to get lynched....it seems like someone is following the Doc's advice....and i don't get how if we jumped on you it would look like we were scum.....there would have to be about 4-5 people to lynch you, and theres only 2 mafia +1 cultist.....so who would you want us to lynch then when we would be down to possibly 7 protown vs 2 mafia vs possibly 2 cultists??? doesn't seem protown to me.....and what happens if we got an all out lynch on you (7 people)....then that would mean at the minimum 4 protown players......it wouldn't give us any extra info......

FoS MoS

[tyhess]

So you're saying you're deliberately encouraging people to bandwagon you and we're supposed to then sort out who's taking an easy ride and ignore the others? Or are we supposed to look for....?

That sounds like a really bad plan there MoS....heck, even if I were scum i'd be attacking you. Gosh, it's an easy way to look like i'm helping the town by attacking someone that willingly submits themself to it. Dude...that's really....not IC-ish...

Not sure whether you're scum now or not but that's a really bad and unthought out plan....

Are you saying you're giving yourself up for a lynch? Because if not then your plan fails miserably.

Exactly. If you were scum, and for all I know, you might be, you'd be attacking me. Because scum feel that attacking the obviously scummy person makes them look protown, they are more likely to do it. Scum tend to stay away from attacking newbies that are scummy too much, because it's not protown to bully newbies around when they likely just don't know what they're doing. So, I gave them an IC target, someone they couldn't resist to jump on. And it seems to have worked. Now we just need to evaluate. That's what this whole game is about, isn't it? Look at what people do, who votes who, who defends who, and find scum. So let's do that.

That doesn't make sense MoS....your portraying yourself as a vanilla townie who wants to get lynched....it seems like someone is following the Doc's advice....and i don't get how if we jumped on you it would look like we were scum.....there would have to be about 4-5 people to lynch you, and theres only 2 mafia +1 cultist.....so who would you want us to lynch then when we would be down to possibly 7 protown vs 2 mafia vs possibly 2 cultists??? doesn't seem protown to me.....and what happens if we got an all out lynch on you (7 people)....then that would mean at the minimum 4 protown players......it wouldn't give us any extra info......

FoS MoS

WHOA WHOA WHOA. Who said I was vanilla townie? I certainly didn't. I'm not saying I'm anything. Who said I was willing to get lynched, too? That would be retarded. Letting myself get lynched would be giving the scum a free pass to tomorrow, as White was saying. It would take a really bad town to decide to lynch me before looking for the scum. Even if I was scum, it'd be likely that I was being bussed, so every single protown player should be analyzing my wagon instead of just waiting for me to be lynched.

There aren't 7 people on me, or I'd be dead. There are less people than that, and I'm 99% sure there is at least one, so we've got a good shot. A second one is probably among those sitting on the fence and leaning towards me.

Oman, White, pwayne, tyhess. The four people who have attacked me this game. 1 of them is scum. Oman doesn't seem like the one. He's been fairly genuine in his thoughts and willing to change his mind. Still possibly scum, but the least likely in my eyes. White is overly aggressive and likes to insult people as well, but it's possible that's just a behavioral problem. I'm willing to bet that one of pwayne and tyhess is scum. My money's on tyhess, but pwayne has been playing a pretty conservative game, in the fact that he hasn't really done much to stir people up and get a lot of attention. So much so that he might have an alterior motive for avoiding it. One of Flameaxe, Vollkan, and CKD is scum as well. Let's do some hunting, people!

Enough is enough MoS. Your saying that your an easy target and that's why scum would be attacking you. I think its more of the fact that you found yourself in a hole, couldn't get out, and now your going to play this card of anybody who votes for you is scum.


You said that you didn't want to be lynched, but the way your acting to me seems like it does matters to you but your trying to use reverse psychology so that no one would vote for you, and if they do you can yell scum.

Not going to happen

Unvote, Vote:MoS

Still keeping an

FOS:theo

[tyhess]

I'm not the victim, I purposefully caused this to happen.

Wait. So you purposefully got us to vote for you, but since some of us

are

voting for you, then one of us is defiently scum. That makes a lot of sense. Basically what you're saying is that if anyone votes for you they were looking for an easy way out and they are scum. You said youself that you put yourslef in that position, meaning that you admit it is scumlike. So basically we're not suppose to vote for someome who puts them in a position to look like scum based on the fact that they say it'll make us look like scum.....

[tyhess]

as usual, vollkan has said it best....he has summed up and added to pretty much to what I was saying.....MoS is not acting in the best interest of the town.

[tyhess]

yo guardian....... i don't think i voted for myself!!!

Mod Edit: Fixed

and i'll go against MoS yet again when i can get more time.....

[tyhess]

Question for MoS. Assuming that we assume your town (which I don't), how do we know who is pro town and who is scum/cultist? There's no way to differentiate between the two.


And then you say it doesn't matter if you did it on purpose or on accident, but earlier you said that it matter if you did it on purpose because then that means your not scum, your just trying to catch them. You aren't helping the town at all, which means your not protown, which means I'm keeping my vote on you.

[tyhess]

Ok so I leave for a day, vollkan miscounts and puts lynch -1, and now everyone but me and white have unvoted MoS, with the only real explanation coming from Oman (saying his vote was about the trojan horse vote). MoS never said anything different than what he's been daying, except that if he was at lynch -1 (which he wasn't) that someone should have told him to claim (whch they shouldn't have based on the cult). To me, junping off MoS like that seems suspisios, especcially when MoS has done nothing to prove himself innocent.

FoS Trojan Horse
FoS pwayne

[tyhess]

MoS-twice in the past day you have said that I am avoiding your questions (this page and post #473. WHAT QUESTIONS DO YOU WANT TO ASK ME. I can't find any questions were you have direstly asked me anything like you said you have. Alsot in post 473 you say i'm not being usefull myself.....I'm doing more in trying to figure out your loyalties than you've done the whole game for the town. So like I said, you point out where you've asked me questions (which you haven't) and I'll answer them.

[tyhess]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #21

tyhess[3](ac1983fan, Flameaxe, Mastermind of Sin)
Mastermind of Sin[2](White, tyhess)
ac1983fan[1](theopor_COD)
theopor_COD[1](vollkan)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)


Not Voting[4](curiouskarmadog, pwayne66, Trojan Horse, Oman)

cross post with pwayne.....i would have to say that the reason i'm voting for him is a combination of the 3 things you said, the most of which being that I think it is the most protown thing to do. And like I said MoS in my last post, tell me where you have asked me a question and I will answer......unlike you, who keeps avoiding everything, and then saying that that's what I'm doing.

[tyhess]

So basically MoS asks one question 4-5 pages back that I thought was retorical and that makes me seem like scum. And I don't beleive that I ever said that you don't not want to get lynched (because who would)....I said that your telling people to not vote for you because you made yourself look scummy and that voting for you would make them look scummy. I don't know....maybe that's called psycology and not reverse psycology....I don't have a masters in that departmnet

[tyhess]

question for MoS: Do you still have questions that you want me to answer or not.


And another thing. Does AC's vote still count for me if we don't get a replacement before the deadline??

[tyhess]

and where is Flameaxe?? we haven't seen him in awhile either....I think he said he wasn't gonig to be here for awhile, but we only have a week till the deadline and it'd be nice to get him on here to....

[tyhess]

thanks, volkan.


And MoS. It's not about the ability to defend yourself. You actually have to do it, and in mine (and it seems white's) eyes, you have yet to do so.

[tyhess]

Scum! he's making excuses and won't post at all before the deadline! Scum!!

Vote: Flameaxe


Obviously i'm not being serious. Unless I am (evil laugh right here)

[tyhess]

welcome Tar the king of replacements..

It's true, I am.

I need to reread the full thread, but after reading the last page I see that we're close to deadline with no major bandwagons. We can't afford to no-lynch today, so I'm going to vote for the guy with the biggest wagon for now and ask questions later.

Unvote, Vote: tyhess

Wo.....I was voted for for jumping on badwagons and he's voting for me because I'm the one with the biggest bandwagon?? And after reading MoS's posts after missing the last 2 days, I was going to unvote but keep an FoS on, so

unvote, vote:Tarhalindur

FoS: MoS

And I also think that an extension would be very helpful. Should someone bold the request?

[tyhess]

Thanks guardian......

[tyhess]

Then the MoS wagon pretty much dies off and we get this from our friendly neighborhood...tyhess:

Ok so I leave for a day, vollkan miscounts and puts lynch -1, and now everyone but me and white have unvoted MoS, with the only real explanation coming from Oman (saying his vote was about the trojan horse vote). MoS never said anything different than what he's been daying, except that if he was at lynch -1 (which he wasn't) that someone should have told him to claim (whch they shouldn't have based on the cult). To me, junping off MoS like that seems suspisios, especcially when MoS has done nothing to prove himself innocent.

FoS Trojan Horse
FoS pwayne

'OMGOMG he is SOOOO totally scum guyz! Why would anyone EVER want to unvote a scum wagon! Clearly everyone who unvoted MUST be scum as well!"
Still the same old 100% chance attitude, at this point, it was kind of getting old... Lets get another!

I never said they were scum- I said it was suspicious that I 3 different people jumped off of the same person within a day, without MoS giving anything to defend his "traps", which it was.

I'll get back to you about why I stopped voting for MoS later.....not enough time right now.

[tyhess]

Flameaxe (and others): The reason for my unvote of MoS is based mostly on the tone of his posts. He was acting messed up- he was way over defensive and way over aggressive when we were attacking him do to his horrific plan to find scum (which still makes absolutely no sense). However, he's backed off a little....still enough for a major FoS but Tar votes for me before getting to page 5? Complete Bull.

And MoS. I might have missed it but I'm looking forward to your re analysys of me.

[tyhess]

Alright then MoS, I'll commit. Not happy about it, but I'll commit.

Vote tyhess

Never was happy with all of his bandwagon hopping at the start of the game. Could just be newbishness, but it could also be an opportunistic scum, hiding behind the fact that he's a newb.

Sure hope I got it right.

Bold mine


Wow. Just Wow. I can see voting for me for the 2nd part (other people have done the same thing) because it was a fault for the jumping and it was a dumb mistake. However, you don't want to commit, but you will?? Not going to fly.

Unvote, Vote:Trojan

Onto the Flameaxe/White thing. I (yet again) see myself siding a lot with White-and that probably isn't good for us in the future. I know that if I was one of you I wouldn't like it, but I digress. Flameaxe- you need to answer questions if your truly protown. It makes no sense not to unless your scum (and even then it makes sense to post SOMETHING). And play by the rules. If we can't trust you to follow the oens we can moniter, how can we trust that you aren't talking outside thread?

MAJOR FOS: FLAMEAXE

[tyhess]

699 is horrible.

unvote, vote Trojan Horse

Horrible how? Cause I was pressured into voting, like White said? Or because I didn't commit until now?

Regardless, I'm in a d***ed if I do, d***ed if I don't situation right now. MoS votes me for not voting for anyone, and White votes me for being pressured into voting. What do you people want?

Anyway, you're absolutely right, White. I guess that was just a frustrating moment for me; I'm getting a bit tired of having to waffle because I don't feel too strongly about anyone as of yet. But that's no reason to be pressured into a premature vote; we still have plenty of time to discuss.

Unvote

Uh-oh. I've just been pressured into unvoting. Now what'll I do?

I'll take a look at the Flameaxe/White thing now. I will point out one thing though; tyhess has now jumped onto yet ANOTHER new bandwagon. This is the same thing he kept doing earlier in the game. Opportunistic much? But then again, it's natural to vote me after I voted him. I'll have to think about how much scummier (if at all) this makes him.

.....and now you unvote. Exactly why MoS said you were suspisious in the first place (fence sitting).

I would liek to see though what you have to say with Flameaxe/White.

[tyhess]

theo.....I see English words in your last post but I have absolutely no clue what they mean. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it just doesn't seem to me like a coherent thought. A little confused right now. Not really sure who your talking to or anything like that.


And how long does it usually take for a reread? I would like to hear tar and kak's opinions.....

[tyhess]

the thing is, i don't think he was trying to be funny........

[tyhess]

I'm at my house.....

[tyhess]

I think tar and kak posting their thoughts will help out the game tremendously....But at this point, Trojan Horse is still my most scummish like, but I would not think twice about lynching MoS-he's been acting scum like imo most of the game.....

[tyhess]

Oman-why am I and Trojan more scummy than White? Why is kar not suspiscious as were making him? Why not MoS (I think you had a vote for him at one point)?

[tyhess]

tar amd kak-neither posts for like 2 days and then they make back to back? Coincidence? I think not.....


Ok all kidding aside (^^^^and I wasn't being serious), I honeslty don't know how much more we can get done until they post there comments. We have beaten each other to death for like a month, and nothing serious has happened in the last couple of days (except for oman completely ignoring my question)....I think 2 more opinons/set of attacks will be what opens the game up...We need to figure something out within the next week or so though.....

[tyhess]

I think we should set our own deadline of about the 11th just to make sure that we don't go on a whim and end up with a no lynch....like we're all going to vote for trojan, white says something scumlike on the 12th, and then we have 1/2 the votes for trojan, and the other half for white....

[tyhess]

All he was trying to do there was set a trap and the first person to call him on that (for not attacking) is deffiently scum just using the easy way out (end sarcasm)

[tyhess]

hahaha.....well I was trying to point out the fact to MoS of how stupid it was to try to set his little trap and call anyone who "felt for it" scum. I was saying that he would say that if anyone called him out for getting a chance to attack someone and not doing so that they were defeinelty scum and trying to get an easy lynch.

[tyhess]

hahaha.....well I was trying to point out the fact to MoS of how stupid it was to try to set his little trap and call anyone who "felt for it" scum. I was saying that he would say that if anyone called him out for getting a chance to attack someone and not doing so that they were defeinelty scum and trying to get an easy lynch.

Your attempt at humor/sarcasm is full of fail. I didn't call everyone scum, and I didn't call anyone "definitely" scum. If anything, you're the one who is saying I am definitely scum, rather than the other way around. I merely said that I was very certain that there was *a* scum among those who attacked me. That doesn't make them all scum, and I'm not at all sure which one it is. Stop putting words in my mouth, please. If you keep making things up about me I might have to think you're scum trying to make me look bad, eh? Town don't make shit up, you shouldn't either.

You said that you were "very certain" there was someone scum on your "bandwagon", and that that was the point of you acting scummish-to try to trap scum. And yeah, in a 12 player game with 2 scum and a cultish, chances are that 1 out of the 5 are not protown. The "trap" didn't help out at all. I was merely suggesting that you might be trying the tactic again, and yet again showing you have faulty (at times) strategy.

[tyhess]

its something to talk about before kak and tar finish rereading.....unless of cours tar is done tlaknig after his one post......

[tyhess]

Yeah, I agree, 10th it is.

[tyhess]

Alterior motive? Maybe thinking that your scum? And what does 4<5 mean anyways?? And what about the people not voting for you? You said we shouldn't ignore them but if we focus on just them from now until the deadlien that's what we'd be doing. Should we give them a free pass because they didn't fall for the "trap"?


And your tactic never worked, so it can't work agian.......

[tyhess]

could you expand on that flameaxe?? I'm still confused about his "strategy".

[tyhess]

I still don't get how its safe to assume that their is scum on every bandwagon. How can you be sure that there was scum voting for you? Maybe they were waiting for your "trap" to get enough people on for them to lynch you. Or, possibly, the people that didn't vote for you were actually scumand didn't note for you because you are scum as well, making it seem as if at least one person who was voting for you was scum, and they were all town. That would gurantee a town lynch.


And going by your theory, atleast one of:

Flameaxe
Oman

are scum for being on the White bandwagon,
and atleast one of
white
vollkan
Oman and
Tar

must be scum because they were on the Flameaxe "bandwagon". To me this theory is null and void and helps us accomplish nothing becuase we no nobody's alliance at this point. If we find out that one of those people are scum, then we can look more closely at it, but at this point that's not going to help us.

[tyhess]

But still-I don't think we can analyze the bandwagons until we know the position of atleast one person-for all we know one of those people are (and actually one of them probably is) scum. I just don't see how we can analyze it yet.

[tyhess]

Wow, are you serious Kak? Just wow.

[tyhess]

Wow. Just Wow.

[tyhess]

What the hell is going on with this game?

[tyhess]

As soon as Tar stated that in his other game he was town when he acted like that, I was 95% sure he was scum. However, I don't think that lynching him at this point will help us out Day 2. If we lynch someone day 1 that has actually talked, then day 2 we could lynch tar and try to get more info by attacking people based on what happened day 1, and then lynch one of those said people day 3, giving us an extra day to find the most likely candidate to be scum. If we lynch tar now, even if he is scum, we gain next to nothing to help us tommorow. Either way we lynch tar, but lynching him tommorow would help us in the long run in my opinion.

[tyhess]

Yeah but what information will help us make a case for or against anyone tommorow? Nothing.

[tyhess]

I just thought of an argument against my case (go figure). At this point, we really don't have anyone that we think is scum other than Tar. So who would we lynch other than him? That pretty much puts a dagger in my theory.....(even though I think if we can find someone else to lynch that we should).....

[tyhess]

Why all the talk about brownies? It's making me hungry....

[tyhess]

I'm not sold on the pwayne bandwagon....(which is probably surprising to some people).....I think his intentions were right considering most of us agreed to not claim and that we should probably lynch anyone that did. When vollkan posted his numbers, he seemed to back off (a little) of lynching tar. I am in favor of not lynching tar, but that's if we can find someone else to lynch that I think is scum. I don't think we have a case on pwayne yet that's enough to convince me, and Tar will be confusing the rest of the game.

And Kak-this is unexcusable. You have to post. You said you would and you've posted nothing.


1 last point-if I was the cult leader, I wouldn't recruit Tar, especially with all the talking about lynching him tommorow. We also should take with a grain of salt what he says and who he starts to help tommorow, because the cult leader could tell him to attach on to someone else.

[tyhess]

WHY DID YOU ASK HIM TO CLAIM??? I thought we weren't going to do that?

[tyhess]

pwayne put it best- the only person who can make anything from a claim is scum. How do we know he isn't lying? What would have happened if he had claimed vanilla? Then we would have two tars. That's not good.

And ckd- Honestly, in this game at this point, I would rather lynch a roleblocker than ask for a claim....not that I want to lynch a roleblocker, I just don't think that we are in a great position now- the 2 people that we had the best cases for are now claimed vanilla (who may or may not be recruited tommorow, and then we don't even know if he is vanilla) and a roleblocker (who may or may not be a roleblocker). If he is truly a roleblocker, he's going to be NK tonight. I would rather them try to talk themselves out of it than claim.


And yes I do realize that this gives a better chance at lynching scum and scum lynching the roleblocker than us lynching a roleblocker and scum lynching scum. Don't get me wrong though-I'm not for a Kak lynch at this point. I just don't like the ask for a claim.

[tyhess]

If your scum, would you say you were scum? No, you would say your either vanilla or a power. If your vanilla, we have another tar situation. If you say roleblocker, the scums either going to lynch you because they know your a roleblocker/town (the only ones who truly know other than you), or if your scum and say that, you'll live and then we'll lynch you becuase the scum didn't NK you. Please explain how this benefits town at this point-I can see it later where you can say you protected/ investigated people, but not now.

[tyhess]

pwayne put it best- the only person who can make anything from a claim is scum. How do we know he isn't lying? What would have happened if he had claimed vanilla? Then we would have two tars. That's not good.

Scum characteristically claim vanilla when under pressure. If a person is under heavy suspicion/pressure and they claim vanilla, the usual play is to lynch them. Tar, on the other hand, had no reason to claim. I can't quite imagine a scumbag being so careless in a game like this. This is, of course, a massive WIFOM, but the fact is that a claim under pressure of lynch should be taken differently to one like Tar's.

Makes sense, but goes with what I said earlier- someone mentioned he did the same thing in another game and came up town. Then tar mentioned that he did the same thing in that game and shouldn't be lynched because he was town last time he did it.

And ckd- Honestly, in this game at this point, I would rather lynch a roleblocker than ask for a claim....not that I want to lynch a roleblocker, I just don't think that we are in a great position now- the 2 people that we had the best cases for are now claimed vanilla (who may or may not be recruited tommorow, and then we don't even know if he is vanilla) and a roleblocker (who may or may not be a roleblocker). If he is truly a roleblocker, he's going to be NK tonight. I would rather them try to talk themselves out of it than claim.

This is positively ridiculous.

For one thing:
1) If you want to lynch a claimed role, why not lynch Tar instead? I don't want to lynch either, but surely a claimed vanilla is a better candidate than a claimed power role.
2) The fact he is going to be NKed is a big problem now, but we might as well capitalise on it as much as possible by keeping him alive today to draw the mafia's fire at night.
3) How do you want them to "talk themselves out"? Neither of them was wagonned out of suspicion. Tar's lynch came up because of his claim; Kakeng's was lurking and refusal to help (a scumtell, but not major).

FoS: Tyhess

Did you read the rest of my post where I said that I don't want to accidently lynch a roleblocker, but that I think it is better than to ask for a claim (as I have said, this puts us in a horrible position)

And yes I do realize that this gives a better chance at lynching scum and scum lynching the roleblocker than us lynching a roleblocker and scum lynching scum. Don't get me wrong though-I'm not for a Kak lynch at this point. I just don't like the ask for a claim.

The obvious implication of this is that you would prefer we accidentally lynch a power role.

That was my quote- and I think that his claim was based off of pressure, not out of truth.

If your scum, would you say you were scum? No, you would say your either vanilla or a power. If your vanilla, we have another tar situation. If you say roleblocker, the scums either going to lynch you because they know your a roleblocker/town (the only ones who truly know other than you), or if your scum and say that, you'll live and then we'll lynch you becuase the scum didn't NK you. Please explain how this benefits town at this point-I can see it later where you can say you protected/ investigated people, but not now.

It is true that, in this game, a genuine vanilla claim has stronger repercussions than in a regular game (where it simply says "This person is not a power role" to the mafia). However, it still works to our obvious advantage by not having power roles lynched. Furthermore, there is always the possibility of doctor protection/bodyguarding etc. to keep that power role alive.

The advantage of claiming is purely and simply that it stops us lynching power roles.

Still disagree?

Ok, but say he's scum. Then the doctor protects him, when the town he otherwise would have protected gets NK-I think in a game with a cultist that its not good. The disadvantages in my opinion (he's lying, he claims town and we have 2 tars, he'll get NK when all he had to do is add info and he'd wouldn't be in a position to be lynched(atleast in Kak's case), or he survives and there's a huge WIFOM situation (is he scum, or did scum let him go to have us lynch him) outweigh the advantages (not lynching him and possibly having him save someone). That's my thoughts. Correct me if you think there's something wrong with that, and I'll be for a claim from now on. At this point I'm not convinced of it in this game.

[tyhess]

Makes sense, but goes with what I said earlier- someone mentioned he did the same thing in another game and came up town. Then tar mentioned that he did the same thing in that game and shouldn't be lynched because he was town last time he did it.

The difference here, though, is that Tar was not under massive suspicion. He claimed of his own volition without pressure.

That's exactly why I think it was a false claim-he said that he did it in another game, and that he was town in that game, so that now that he did it in this game, he's obviously town. That's why I didn't like his claim (among other reasons already explained.

Ok, but say he's scum.

1)

Then the doctor protects him, when the town he otherwise would have protected gets NK-I think in a game with a cultist that its not good. The disadvantages in my opinion

2

(he's lying, he claims town and we have 2 tars, he'll get NK when all he had to do is add info and he'd wouldn't be in a position to be lynched(atleast in Kak's case), or he

3

survives and there's a huge WIFOM situation (is he scum, or did scum let him go to have us lynch him) outweigh the advantages (not lynching him and possibly having him save someone). That's my thoughts. Correct me if you think there's something wrong with that, and I'll be for a claim from now on. At this point I'm not convinced of it in this game.

1) The doctor is not guaranteed success anyway. It's much better that he protect a known power role than to protect at random in which case there is only a 1/11 chance of him succeeding (by pure numbers). Furthermore, the front page explicitly states that the doctor saves "from

death

". The cult does not kill. Thus, that leads me to believe that the doctor may be unable to protect against the cult.
2) If he is lying, he is most likely scum but could be an idiotic vanilla. We have no reason to think he is lying though.
3) This applies in every game where there is a claim. Typically, though, the scum will want to NK power roles as quickly as possible. If they don't get rid of a RB, for instance, they run a risk of losing their NK two nights in a row.

1) I know, but I was saying "what if".
2) I think he would have just added info instead of claiming-that's the only reason he was being voted for. It would have been more protown to do so.
3)I get what your saying, but what would you do if he DOES make it past the night, and there was another kill (ie the scums kill)?

[tyhess]

I meant Kak, the claimed role blocker-what if he survives?

[tyhess]

That's what I meant. If neither die, we have that in 2 situations, with both of the major lurkers.....nothing we can do about it now though......

[tyhess]

Why? How about you explain what's wrong instead of just going with the flow when i got yelled at for that.

[tyhess]

I'm sure that's the right play for today. I doubt he is a roleblocker. He replaced into the game, promised a lot of contribution, and did nothing. Then, when wagoned almost to a lynch, he came back, posted a roleblocker claim (unlikely to draw a counterclaim, but powerful enough that we might not lynch him). And he still doesn't give us an update on the analysis he promised. This is not protown at all. It looks like he was planning to lurk through to Day 2, got caught, and claimed a power role to save his ass, because as far as the mafia is concerned, every day they can live without dying is a plus, even if it's just a quick fix. A roleblocker claim can be ridden several days without lynch, as long as he gets lucky with his claimed targets. For example, he could claim to have targetted his scumbuddy, or he could claim against the dead person, or he could claim against someone the mafia feels is unlikely to have a power role (like Tar). This buys him several days of life, while we sit around lynching other people.

I'm pretty sure his play so far has been a scum ploy. It's clear he's not actually trying to help the town. Just look at his posts in isolation and you'll see what I mean.

Let's do this guys. We can lynch him before time is up.

QFT The only thing I don't like is the last line.

[tyhess]

unvote,vote:kak


FOS MoS

(again)

I don't even know what it is, but the way he's going about trying to get votes is almost like a politician. Everyone knows what a politician is known for (lieing).

[tyhess]

EBWOP

I just saw MoS's little campaign speeches thing, which makes it a little better, but he's done that a couple of times now.....

[tyhess]

simulpost, check the last page of the last page...

[tyhess]

I would say that the night benefited us a lot. Anybody care to disagree? The only thing that could have been better was if we had lynched right, but even given what we now know, I still think it was the right move given the circumstances. Obviously I didn't want to lynch a roleblocker, but I really don't think we had another choice........But without a cult to deal with now, we have a 7 to 2 advantage and with what seems to be a serial killer (or something of that sort). I think the advantage is clearly in our corner now.

[tyhess]

EBWOP- you think kak knew anything about MoS, or that was just his hunch?? Maybe a day cop or something???? (i don't think so since he was a roleblocker, but you never know.....)

[tyhess]

That's what I thought as well Vollkan, but you never know....and the vig does make more sense.....

[tyhess]

I have to agree with MoS on this one....if I was the cult leader I would have recruited vollkan......

[tyhess]

Mastermind of Sin - Scum. He jumped back on my radar. Yesterday, immediately after a bandwagon against Flameaxe started, he changed his stance to go after a very popular choice, Kakeng ( a diversion?).

Pretty sure I didn't "change" my mind. I never thought Kakeng was protown. I gave him a chance to contribute, and he didn't,

so I got him lynched.

He didn't even defend himself after he was pressured. I thought he was hoping to lurk past the pressure. When he finally spoke up, he only gave a claim and nothing else worth mentioning. That had all the trademarks of scum. I fail to see what I've done wrong here other than being mistaken in my assessment. But hindsight is 20/20.

Does anyone else think the bolded quote is a little odd?

[tyhess]

You care to explain that Tar?

[tyhess]

Vote: Tarhalindur I don't buy it at all. I think because you claimed yesterday you think you're invulnerable to attack.

That was a poor move, and I don't think its pro-town at all.

I think that if Flameaxe is scum I'm going to take a very close look at you as a possible scumbuddy, and vice versa.

That's exactly the kind of response I would expect from a scumbuddy who sees his partner get voted with no explanation (Kate as scum responded that way when inHim tested her scumbuddy Falcone in Newb 399; all other relevant games are ongoing).

Oman and/or Flameaxe could use some pressure right about now, based on that reaction alone.

Vote: Oman

I don't like this either. Your going into MoS's "if you vote for me you're scum" theory, which I didn't like in the first place. You should have given a reason for your vote-and I doubt Oman was trying to avert the attention from Flameaxe, given that you posted 0(zero) facts against Flameaxe. Adding this to what you did last round (self vote, etc), I'm going to

Vote: Tar

[tyhess]

I don't like this either. Your going into MoS's "if you vote for me you're scum" theory, which I didn't like in the first place. You should have given a reason for your vote-and I doubt Oman was trying to avert the attention from Flameaxe, given that you posted 0(zero) facts against Flameaxe. Adding this to what you did last round (self vote, etc), I'm going to

Vote: Tar

But Tar did give a reason for his vote (though it was after the fact); he said he was fishing for reactions. That's reasonable.

I however don't think its reasonable. There were other people already pressuring Flameaxe, so if he was trying to get a reaction from someone other than Flameaxe, he didn't have to vote without a reason. Same thing if he was trying to get a reaction from Flameaxe- there was no reason to vote without a reason since others were already pressuring him.

This is just added to the long list of things I haven't liked about Tar:
1) self vote (twice)
2) saying he used that tactic in another game and he was town in that game so he's obviously town in this one.
3) claiming vanilla without being asked to do so.
4) Using the same strategy as MoS, probably just because MoS talked himself out of being voted for.

My vote stands.

[tyhess]

tyhess, you're reaching. Just because Tarhalindur made a vote that could be argued as OMGUS does not draw any parallels to what I did. I presented a case that said there was *probably* a scum on my wagon,

one out of four

, not

all

of them. To say that this equates to "everyone that votes me is scum" is not only a gross misrepresentation, but it's complete bullshit to compare it to Tar's actions.

Yes, but that's what Tar said he was doing. He said he was hoping someone would attack him, which was a scumtell.

[tyhess]

Yes, but that's what Tar said he was doing. He said he was hoping someone would attack him, which was a scumtell.

No, tyhess, it is not a scumtell. I hate the tactic because it usually is not a great help (though I have seen it succeed in the past) but it is not a scumtell. In fact, whenever people pull stupid stunts they have always come up town for me. That doesn't mean I consider it a town-tell (WIFOM obv), but it is not a scumtell.

I didn't mean what he did was a scum tell(which is what I think you thought I meant)....I meant that he said that if someone voted for him and overreacted it was a scumtell....

[tyhess]

You misread my quote volkan, or I misread yours. My original quote meant that tar said that if anyone voted/overreacted that it was a scumtell. I repeated what he said as a reason for me voting for him. Then you said that it wasn't a scumtell. I thought you misread my sentence, and I was saying that I wasn't repeating that it was a scumtell but that Tar said people voting/overreacting was a scumtell, not that what he did was scumtell. I haven't seen that strategy enough to term it a scumtell, however; I just don't like it, and that is what I said in the comments you quoted.

[tyhess]

Oman needs to die.

Why??? You're kind of starting to piss me off-you keep acting like your so much better than all of us at this game. I think that we should look into theo as well, but maybe that really has happened in a game before and that's why he's saying that. And I also hate posts that give us no information (ie:Oman needs to die)

[tyhess]

but you still haven't answered anything from my quote........

[tyhess]

Flameaxe- quit messing around.....your last 2 posts=completely useless and not funny. Do you want to help the town or not?

[tyhess]

Vote: Flameaxe

Post something decent for a change and that might change. Might.

[tyhess]

I've been reading since I was lynched, but not paying attention as much as I would have if I had been playing...I'm going to back and reread (not right now-work to do). I'll probably go in like 5 page increments or something and then post, not really sure. 1 thing I would like though is that if you have anything to say about what I'm posting, to wait until I'm done with the re-read because my opinions will probably change, and I'd like to reread everything before I get into any arguments. Let me know if anyone has a problem with that-I should be done with the reread friday or saturday....

[tyhess]

I had this sweet post written up, and then it was messed up by my computer, so here's shot number 2 (which is never as good as number 1). I was killed on page 51, and my first thought after I was killed was that Vollkan was scum. I beleive that CKD and MoS were the 2 people killed by the scum at night; at the time, ckd was at little to no suspision, and MoS only at moderate suspision. This leads me to beleive that volkan would have been NK if he wasn't scum, based on the fact that the scum would want him out of the game- everybody seemed to listen to him.

Tar suggests a mass claim, which nobody seemed to agree with except for oman. I think that was how the scum found out oman was the vig, and why it was later proposed that we no lynch. He tried slipping that in so that noone would think he was the vig, but he over played it by agreeing to the mas claim.

page 52 was just a lot of pwayne and vollkan going back in forth, with a little bit of flameaxe stuff in there....


Post 1305 show that a lot of TH's posts were suspisions against pro town players, and he had a lot of fence sitting....

In 1339 TH post yet again that me and MOS died in the night, killing off his too biggest suspisions.....

Post 1311 and 1312 by TH and vollkan look to me as if they are scum partners......



that's through page 54....more later....

[tyhess]

Pages 55-57

vollkan and pwayne go at it again, this time about pwayne's vote on vollkan. pwayne put a vote out their with not much of a reason, and in a lylo situation to boot. Not good. The only good reason was the lynch to not self hammer argument, which was pretty stupid imo.

In post 1359, vollkan defends oman hammer for some reason, saying that Oman explained it when he voted, so that makes it all fine and dandy. I disagree (a lot). This was before Oman had some what explained the vote in 1360.


in 1361 Vollkan calls out oman for the same faulty reason that I saw, which was good. But he also called out oman for "thinking" vollkan and himself was town, which was stretching it in my opinion.

vollkan also "noted" oman's "soft claim" were he claimed town....


end of page 55....if it seems like most of my stuff is attacking vollkan, it's because it is. His are the only posts that look suspiscious too me as I'm going through....


in 1375, TH yet again mentions his broken scumdar and how the four people that have been killed he had suspisions about them all, and the only "bad guy" killed was teh cult recruiter, which plays into my TH killed CKD and MoS theory.

vollkans 1401=good post imo, calling out TH about thinking oman/theo were scumpartners, even thought he thought oman was resonable other than the hammer.


Post 1408-TH says that he doesn't have suspision of vollkan, but his states (again) that his scumdar is broken. Seems to me liek he was giving himself an out if vollkan was scum.

MoS ends up being the one to suggest the no lynch. It would fit that he went back and reread and caught the same things from oman that I did, but the only reason that this doesn't automatically mean he's scum in my opinion was that oman was already being called out. If he thought Oman was the vig, he would have let him be lynched, and the NK.


Post 1419 stands out to me (from MoS). Not a normal quote tag, but here it is:

"You're wrong. Even if we no lynch today, and no kill tonight, we don't have "just a lynch". We have a BETTER chance of hitting scum, and if we're wrong, the vig has a BETTER chance of killing correctly that night. I'm willing to trade the offchance that our vig dies for a better chance of winning the game. "


The offchance that out vig dies.....hmmmmmm.....

That's it for up to page 57....I should be able to get more tonight.....

[tyhess]

Hopefully I can finish this tonight/tommorow

page 58:


1426 seems to scream to me that TH knows who the vig is. He either forgets the vig is alive, or thinks the scum is going to kill them. At first he says that the only way that happens is if the cult recruit survives and the vig dies, but he seems pretty set that the vig is gong to die. MoS justifiably calls him out in 1427.


Scratch that last part. It was later explained....

post 1448 (and then in 1450) oman yet again tries to role fish, and I think it hurt him....


PAGE 59

quote from MoS1458:

Wow. That has got to be the luckiest kill I have ever seen. I do not believe the scum thought he was vig, but wtf were they thinking. Leaving Oman alive with their ticket to freedom, I would've been all over his ass today...that's just scary. Even in a counterclaim situation I would've voted Oman. So the town just got another chance at winning the game through that Oman kill. Thanks scum. You really did yourself in this time. [/gratuitous scumtell paragraph]


very suspisious imo


In 1477, Th's scumdar magically works again, and its during lylo.......


Mos explains how the no lynch would have been bad for him if he had thought oman was the vig. Me like.


TH (1478) becomes so much more aggessive now that its endgame, and is broken scumday is amazing again. Not so good.


This is takign a lot longer than I thought it would.....page 61:
Actually I skimmed61-62 and saw nothing of huge importance...let me know if theres anything huge that yoiu want me to check out I will.

I have read up to the part that I have joined. I think there are two possible scum partners in my opinion: MoS/TH and vollkan/TH. Obviously I think TH is defenitely scum, but here's a synopis of all players (main things):

TH-broken scumdar was broken, but it magically gets fixed in endgame.
-he thought there was a scum role, which wasn't likely
-has completely switched his play from fence sitting to ultra agressiveness.

MoS-started the No lynch idea, and seems to know more than everyone else.


vollkan-not NKed yet (not the best scum tell, but I thibk it's one)
-links mentioned between him and Th

pwayne has seemed to stay under the radar. Not good either.

However, I would go at this point

1) TH









2 tie) MoS/vollkan
3) pwayne

I'll comment on everything since I've started later.

[tyhess]

I had this sweet post written up, and then it was messed up by my computer, so here's shot number 2 (which is never as good as number 1). I was killed on page 51, and my first thought after I was killed was that Vollkan was scum. I beleive that CKD and MoS were the 2 people killed by the scum at night; at the time, ckd was at little to no suspision, and MoS only at moderate suspision. This leads me to beleive that volkan would have been NK if he wasn't scum, based on the fact that the scum would want him out of the game- everybody seemed to listen to him.

You make a legitimate point. That said, the fact that I have not been NKed can indicate a myriad of things, rather than your conclusion that it means I am probably scum (eg. - that my opinions are hideously misguided and I am barking up the wrong tree, an effort to WIFOM, perceiving me as less dangerous than MoS or CKD, etc.)

Was this the entire extent of your case, or did you have something more substantial in your full post?

I thought about both of those other possibilities; however, I beleive the case I presented to be more plausible: I don't beleive their is a lot of WIFOM going on and even if you are wrong people are following you and theres a chance you find scum-if scum, I would rather be able to control the town-not possible with you in. I would say just based off of this its 5% hideously misguided, 19.1% WIFOM, and 75.9% scum, based solely on those options for not being NKed.

red=me in the next 2-3 quotes.

I'll respond to the points raised regarding myself.

In post 1359, vollkan defends oman hammer for some reason, saying that Oman explained it when he voted, so that makes it all fine and dandy. I disagree (a lot). This was before Oman had some what explained the vote in 1360.

Oman's "preventing a self hammer" justification was an unusual one, but still "valid". As I say in 1359, that raises the obvious question of why Oman chose to support the lynch when he suspected TH. I did not say it was "fine and dandy", nor did I imply that. My thinking was that it was a sufficient explanation, in that it covered everything, but was a "bizarre reason" nonetheless. I did, however, take issue with the TH anomaly which I raised.

I still think that you may have given way to much in the argument, but I understand what your saying....

in 1361 Vollkan calls out oman for the same faulty reason that I saw, which was good. But he also called out oman for "thinking" vollkan and himself was town, which was stretching it in my opinion.

vollkan also "noted" oman's "soft claim" were he claimed town....

Actually, I only called him out for saying that he thought himself to be pro-town, since I would have expected a bit more certainty from him. Really, this was just me being pedantic in order to garner some reaction from him - it wasn't stretching because it wasn't really "suspicious", just something I was interested in seeing how he explained it.

I saw, and still see it, as trying a little too hard....however, it's not a huge thing to tht we need to get into......

end of page 55....if it seems like most of my stuff is attacking vollkan, it's because it is. His are the only posts that look suspiscious too me as I'm going through....

Again, I ask whether the points you have raised in-thread were the only ones you had, because I can't actually see any case for me to rebut.

I mean, so far we've only had:
1) The fact I have not been NKed.
2) My partial defence of Oman. (I say "partial" because whilst I thought that his actions were bizarre, I could not see what necessarily made them scummy, other than the TH thing)
3) The "thinking" point

[tyhess]

It had nothing to do with the division of the PBPAs, it was the way you guys worded it.

[tyhess]

I'm leaning toward's TH being the best bet. Either way I cut it, he is the common denominator. Tyhess is vastly improved over tar, but his accusations fail to make any real sense. I am still reading with an emphasis on TH and Vollkan, but I don't find a lot to indicate a connection thus far.

It was not a huge connection; however, that's what I saw when I was reading everything-however, like I said, it's not a huge connection, but I do beleive that TH is the best bet-after that I seriously don't know and may have been stretching it to try to find a scum pair. But I feel probably 95% sure that TH is scum.

[tyhess]

I still beleive that TH is the best lynch for today, and the most likely to be scum.

[tyhess]

Ok, someone's gotta move this on to the next level eventually, it might as well be me. I'm not trying to hurry anything or say that we should stop discussing things. This is not a vote of impatience, either. I'm just confident enough in my read at this point that a

Vote: Trojan Horse

is in order.

I agree with this. I just don't want to put him at lynch-1 in lylo.

[tyhess]

Let's see...1 in 4, and 1 in 2, over 2 nights? That's essentially a 2 in 6 chance of occurrence during that time period, since they are separate probabilities. That's a

1/3

chance of hitting the vig over two nights. At most, maybe 66%. It's not *that* likely. It seems as if you were basing your entire analysis on the fact that something *might* go wrong. Your insistence that it would makes me think that you

knew

something would go wrong for the town. That would also explain why you came up with the "theory" that scum knew Oman was the vig when they killed him, and it would be a perfect ploy to use as scum. Let Trojan argue against no lynch, while his scumpartner goes along with it and stays under cover. Having Trojan do it is perfect for them. Because he's had a "broken scumdar" all game, no one is likely to actually give credence to his arguments, yet they are perhaps likely to dismiss them as him being himself, rather than being scum. That helps give the illusion of Trojan actually thinking there was a protown benefit behind his plans, while he could still push the scum's agenda on the offchance he was listened to. Then Trojan can say "I told you so" the next day, when everything he "prophesied" against comes true. It's almost as if

he knew it was coming...

Actually it's be 3/4 chance of the vig dieing-you have a 25% chance of NK the vig, and then a 50% chance=75% chance of the vig dieing. However, I would have agreed with the no lynch-I thought it was the best idea at the time and still think that based on the info we (you) had, that you should've No Lynched.

[tyhess]

*bangs head against wall*

3/4 chance of missing the vig on their first attempt. And if they missed, 1/2 chance of missing the vig on their second attempt. All together, 3/8 chance of missing on both attempts; 5/8 chance of hitting on either attempt. And that's if they chose randomly; the real chances would be higher. If it got down to 2 mafia, 1 vig, and 1 other protowner (which is the best we could have after no-lynch/no-vig/mislynch), I think the odds would be much greater than 50-50 of the scum hitting the vig that night.

Learn some math, MoS.

Err, what's your point? 5/8 is 62% which is less than the 66% that I suggested. Are you saying that it's actually

less

likely than what I hypothesized the worst scenario to be?

Tyhess, you can't just add the probabilities, dude. That's not how statistics works. I know my numbers aren't right either, but it's definitely not 75%. Trojan's numbers seem right. I'm still trying to fathom why she bothered to prove that I overestimated the chances of the vig dying...

it didn't seem right to me-i guess that's what happens when you try to go quick becuase there are people that can see what I'm doing on the internet during theday.

[tyhess]

I was almost positive about vollkan, but I thought that TH was scum for sure....good game though.....