Mini 1860 - Game Over!

[gerryoat]

Gamma I said it didn't make sense for you to shoot jar. I was just covering all possibilities

[gerryoat]

Fitz who do you think jar role blocked? I'm pretty sure he'd block cloud. Does anyone else agree with this at least

[gerryoat]

Why is it when I'm here no one else is.

[gerryoat]

I shot gerry.
So who do I think is scum now?
Fitz. He was stating I was probtown but now believes I'm SK.

You shot wrong, but I guess it's fine. I blew up at you towards the end of yesterday cause I was frustrated sorry

[gerryoat]

so i'm guessing that means that if gamma didnt make the kill. then maf was able to get the kill off and assuming jar would be on his scumread, cloud might actually not be mafia or just didnt make the kill.

Im not mafia dude, you can read me pretty well on em so no reaso to thibk the contrary on mafiadcum, regardless of kill analysis, i aint mefia bro

Yes I know. Like I said I think we have 2 role blockers now. And i think jar blocked you. So you couldn't have made the kill. Who do you think is maf then

[gerryoat]

Pretty sure that's not possible within normal guidelines

Why?

[gerryoat]

what do you guys think?

I think the last day or two you have been coming up with an unusually large amount of "Cloud is town" inferences.

I never said that. I just wanted to give cloud the benefit of the doubt since he's my friend off site. And today I think he would have been role blocked.

[gerryoat]

Nah EM is a terrible site.

We agree with something

[gerryoat]

VOTE: Gerry

Rather him today.

Why? And you didn't even respond to anything said. Can you at least give me your analysis and not just vote

[gerryoat]

so i'm guessing that means that if gamma didnt make the kill. then maf was able to get the kill off and assuming jar would be on his scumread, cloud might actually not be mafia or just didnt make the kill.

Im not mafia dude, you can read me pretty well on em so no reaso to thibk the contrary on mafiadcum, regardless of kill analysis, i aint mefia bro

Yes I know. Like I said I think we have 2 role blockers now. And i think jar blocked you. So you couldn't have made the kill. Who do you think is maf then

fitz, also why not just jar blocking gamma considering he might think that if i was scum, my partner would do the kill since i was quite fosed ? i believe this over 2nd rb

Lol no way he blocks a potential vig after we just nl'd and face a possible lylo

[gerryoat]

Can everyone out their top 2 foses at least. Mostly gamma, cloud, uzi I think I know where the others stand.

[gerryoat]

Twoface. That makes no sense.

[gerryoat]

Can you at least read everything else I've read

[gerryoat]

Lol. Ok. If you were town I think you'd be a bit more thoughtful

[gerryoat]

Uzi if you're town I need you to unvote and give me reads please

[gerryoat]

What have you brought

[gerryoat]

Idk I still think he's town.

[gerryoat]

Why do you think he's scum?

[gerryoat]

Lol. Ok. If you were town I think you'd be a bit more thoughtful

I am town and I have no interest in being thoughtful to the guy who suggested I drink bleach.

Piss off homie

You're admiring to grudge ignoring me lol. You were being rude to me

[gerryoat]

I think that was meant for your scum chat bro

[gerryoat]

Who said I'm not concerned. I mentioned the Gerry thing ages ago

I actually think the 3 of you are scum. Just one was sent a town role pm and is playing like scum. I just can't figure out who that is yet

Rofl

[gerryoat]

Yes it still sucks tho. It just got hacked today

[gerryoat]

Ya my name got changed and a bunch of others did too lol. They fixed it though already

[gerryoat]

VOTE: Gerry

Rather him today.

Why? And you didn't even respond to anything said. Can you at least give me your analysis and not just vote

You know why. Reread our back and forth from Day 3.

I didn't respond to anything recently said because it didn't make me rethink any of my views and I don't need anything clarified.

Analysis on what and/or who?

How did I become your stronger Sr when you didn't even out one on me the beginning of yesterday. You basically just voted me cause I was voting you.

[gerryoat]

Fitz lmao. Seriously? Why would I defend you as scum. You were at l1. I coulda hammered you

[gerryoat]

Could I seriously have been wrong

[gerryoat]

Cloud's not getting any traction.
I don't like the gerry/Cloud buddy vibe.
Perusing some of gerry's scum games I see some similarities to this game.
Progressing this game.
= VOTE: gerry

If someone comes in and hammers and gerry is scum....I hope scum are smart enough to NK Gamma. If he's bulletproof town is already screwed.

If gerry is town....c'est la vie.

Some? I only have 2. One I argued with my partner so much we were mod warned. 2nd I was a traitor and my partners didn't know me. You just lied

[gerryoat]

So what buddy vibes are you talking about in my previous games. Link one then

[gerryoat]

Yes I know. I thought it could be twoface and lil. But I might have been wrong cause he just lied about meta. Link the game where I "buddied"

[gerryoat]

I don't get the rush

[gerryoat]

You basically just voted me cause I was voting you.

you of all people should no have a problem with this since that's what you basically did earlier this game

I had a different reason for voting you as well. I was frustrated at the time

[gerryoat]

So no one cares that fitz just lied? Lol

[gerryoat]

Gamma what are your reads

[gerryoat]

Link the game

[gerryoat]

Only been maf 2 times on this site you can look through all my games. Once I was maf and I argued with maria so much (fake arguing obvs since we are friends lol) that we were mod warned. The 2nd time I was maf with eager snake and I was traitor. Maf didn't know who i was until lylo when we blitzed. My other partner was universal tr after eager got lynched day 1. I see no parallels

[gerryoat]

I shoulda just hammered you fitz, idk why I bought your reasoning now I feel stupid

[gerryoat]

Gamma if you're SK or vig it doesn't matter at this point. Me being lynched equals loss for you since maf obviously rb'd you. They will do it again and kill you for the win. You have to lynch maf here.

[gerryoat]

I did answer? I quoted them.

[gerryoat]

I did answer? I quoted them.

You didn't say what makes them bad.

Pretty sure I did.

[gerryoat]

Bullshit , fitz. Why can't you link it if you're telling the truth? My maf partner was tr by every one why would I fos him

[gerryoat]

havingfitz - Got a bit sketchy after that random flip on me, but w/e I still think this is most likely town
JarJar - I like his posts, prob town.
Gamma - I don't see the point of SK outing right here. He would most likely hide, and not want attention on him. But, I mean.. The last shot was bad. The first shot was not bad, but was bad from HIS point of view, as he said he TR Dave the day before. But, he did give an explanation.
TwoFace - This guy, has had shit reads on me before in another game when we were both town. He tunneled me until I eventually outed as PR. And I WAS RIGHT THE WHOLE TIME ABOUT MY READS. And he still called me garbage. He's a jerk, so it could be his same town game. But, his read on me is garbage.
GreyIce - Gear hasn't really done anything and has been inactive. Has only had 1 post so far, so I wanna give them a chance.
Lil Uzi - His posts have been pretty bad so far. I don't like his reasoning for disliking a TR on me when he hasn't even read me according to him. I would most likely lynch this today unless things change.

What part of 1001 and 1006 did you not understand?

Yes, I still don't like the reasoning though.

All this?

[gerryoat]

Wait, let's go through this
Let's say both G and CK are town
That leaves TF, HF, and LUV
LUV hasn't really pinged me too much so That leaves TF and HF
But that would mean they are double bussing, which I find unlikely
Am I wrong in that last statement?

I'll say this again. If you're vig or SK. Lynching me is auto loss for you. You need to lynch maf

[gerryoat]

hi uzi what are your reads

Hey!

I'm down with one of Fitz, Gamma, or Gear today.

I feel like there is a small chance we are all being duped by JJD but I think he's town this game.

Do you not FOS me? You said that you fos fitz for having an unexplained TR on me. Which would mean you are weary of me, and see no reason to TR me. Why am I not in your lynch pool if thats the case?

Here. I explained awhile ago. Sorry takes longer on mobile

[gerryoat]

I didn't like that post and explained

[gerryoat]

That's it really. I only put your name first in that lynch pool because I like things in alphabetical order. I prefer Gamma and/or Gear over you personally.

This seemed like filler to me at the time.

[gerryoat]

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm on mobile and on vacation my time is limited.

[gerryoat]

No? I literally just explained

[gerryoat]

Fitz was a TR of mine. Why wouldn't I question?

[gerryoat]

Filler is a way of finding maf on EpicMafia, it's how I'm used to formulating reads. Cloud or gamma can attest to that

[gerryoat]

Filler is a way of coasting. Saying things to fit in. Trying to say things that sound part of the convo but have no meaning. It's how I felt that was

[gerryoat]

It doesn't matter. And no its not

[gerryoat]

Whatever. One of twoface and lil is town. Fitz has no reason to vote me like that as town. VOTE: Fitz

[gerryoat]

. Fitz has no

I clearly just said in that post

[gerryoat]

Well. It's 2/3 scum in you guys. I see no reason to flip his read on me as town so easily. To vote with someone who he said was scum past 2 days

[gerryoat]

okay im on a computer right now. i havent been able to act like my usual self since i was on mobile and it's harder on my phone.

[gerryoat]

how come no one is willing to vote Fitz when u guys fos'd him yesterday. I was iterally the one stopping you from voting him. now you dont wanna lynch him

[gerryoat]

. Fitz has no

I clearly just said in that post

You mean this:

One of twoface and lil is town. Fitz has no reason to vote me like that as town. VOTE: Fitz

That doesn't tell me your current read on 2F. You back off 2F now to now it's he or LUV but you are voting me. So are me and 2F both scum? Or me and LUV? But definitely not Cloud for some reason...

---

You've been caught lying 3 times and then get mad cause you think fitz lied.

You just lied

I might have been wrong cause he just lied about meta.

So no one cares that fitz just lied?

But the lie he is accusing me of....I never even said. He's voting me for a lie he is concocting.

Link the game where I "buddied"

I didn't say buddying was the similarity.

---

Gamma...why are you waiting to vote?

My current read is that you're mafia with one of those 2 and i'm not sure which one. I thought twoface coulda been town earlier before all the tunneling so it might be him

[gerryoat]

you DID lie about meta. nothing in this game is similar to the eagar snake game. as the interactions between me as traitor to a mafia is different than 2 maf partners. as traitor i have to worry about being night killed thus is why i would act different than my partners.

[gerryoat]

Oh I misunderstood. Which post? quote

[gerryoat]

Yes. Vote fitz. You all thought I was maf with him yesterday. So why are people hesitant to vote him now? I wonder

[gerryoat]

Yes. Vote fitz. You all thought I was maf with him yesterday. So why are people hesitant to vote him now? I wonder

For me it's how obvious you/cloud look as partners. Makes more sense than you/fitz.

I keep hoping I'm wrong about you, I keep waiting for something to make me want to reconsider you as scum. Yet I'm here waiting and see nothing.

Too much deflection onto fitz. If he's scum, make a case for him. Your read changed cause his changed again. You as no issue the first time (despite it being the very thing you said you find scummy) but now he does it again and it's all a sudden an issue. That means early on you were trying to pocket fitz and now you can't.

okay will make my case tonight after ihop

[gerryoat]

Sorry I'm on vacation and busy. My gf is upset I'm on this so much lol. Will try tonight

[gerryoat]

You said you were on vacation til the 8th. It's the 9th and your v/la is gone.

got extended to the 11th cause of a snow storm.

[gerryoat]

D1 thoughts.

Town leans were:
Gerry, Kyouko, Tywin and Rask.

Slightly less town leans but more town than null were:
Gamma, LUV

Need to move off idk were:
Gear and JJD

People I'd be ok voting were:
Grey, TwoFace and probably PsychoDave moreso for PL type reasons (not a fan of worthless lurky players making it more than a day or two).

The spoiler below has any thoughts or questions I may have had as I read through the game.

My D2 vote was shaping up to be a toss-up between Grey and TwoFace...........maybe PsychoDave if neither of them gained traction. But with Dave gone and his flip in contradiction with Grey's claim....Grey will get my vote today. No rush though...it would be nice to see a little post D1/N1 chit chat before ending D2. Unless we want to save the mod from finding a stunt double for Grey's lynch today?

Spoiler: 1860 Catch up

Page 1-4: NSTR
Page 5:
JJD's comment about TwoFace's rvs vote being contrived seems a bit contrived.
Kind of agree with Rask's comment on PsychoDave 117...agreed.
@TwoFace... are you good with Gerry's play thru post 119? Did you find Tywin's thoughts on Gerry to be questionable? What about Gamma's Gerry vote?
Tywin...When you say Gerry "thought this through beforehand" wrt his meta defense do you mean in a suspect way? You address this later in post 241 but even if you were just pointing it out...it comes across as casting shade on Gerry. Especially in conjunction with your post below:
Tywin insinuating Gerry saves links. Why make that assumption? I can look up meta examples of various things but don't need a link library to find them. And it appears you aren't really seeing the keypen wagon...that you later put at L-1.

Page 9 vicinity....Gerry = town

The page 11 exchange between JJD and Gamma is pretty good. I was thinking Gamma had a town feel to him...and that JJD did not...but JJD is making good points on Gamma. Post 344 summarizes it all nicely as well.

@TwoFace... Vij quoted two comments you had made and then gave an opinion. The only facts in this post were your quotes. Did he get them wrong? And where does Vij say you were telling people how to read Tywin?

Like Tywin's Post 345. Are you suggesting a PsychoDave - Kyouko scum combo?

TwoFace... you deny suggesting that people look at TyWin if key flips scum but you clearly do in Post 180. It's not a mental note, ala Post 124, as you deflect to.

Not sure what Gamma's issue is with Tywin questioning TwoFace's play. In and around post 359.

Page 15...I'm town reading Kyouko.

Gear town.

Mental note.... JJD will eat rat testicles if they are in fried Oreos.

Comment....changing votes a lot is not scummy. When and where you vote might be scummy....but not the quantity.

Rask... what is your view of TwoFace?

TwoFace... why wouldn't PsychoDave confess to not having any reads if he was scum...especially as a newer player to MS? Seems like an easy way for him to not get OMGUS attention from players he suspects. And not having to fabricate reasons for any suspicions.

-------500-------

@Grey... not a big fan of your "not pushing Tywin" "Sheeping a townread" comment.

Rask town lean.
Gerry still reading town to me.

TwoFace... useless players have just as much chance of being scum as helpful ones. Imagine your town and it's LYLO. Do you want PsychoDave there with you

D2 has begun...D1 read through cont.

Like Kyouko's posts and 574 (aside from the lynch Vij portions). Still a town read.

@ TwoFace... why is Vij requesting replacement interesting?

TwoFace... how is Grey caught scum?

JJD... why does scum Grey = town Gamma?

TwoFace... wtf?

End of Day 1

Done. Kind of speed read after D2 opened. Consider me caught up.

Up to this point, he has me as town, and a scumread on Dave and Twoface. At this point in the game, he has the same read on Dave as me. So from his point of view, this would make him TR me like i said.

Spoiler: gerry ISO

gerry (85 posts)

ISO 0-4 - Discussion on dislike of RVS.
ISO 5-6 - Doesn't like Gamma votring him because they have history.
Accepts Vij vote despite not liking it.
ISO 7 - Questions JarJar on voting Gear in post 72.
ISO 10-11 - Questions keyen on not knowing who suspects him and
explains reason for question to Grey.
ISO 12 - Defends his meta defense wrt avoiding RVS.
ISO 13 - Explains to JarJar why he understands Vij's vote on him.
ISO 14 - Likes Tywin's content.
ISO 15 - Explains to JarJar why he understands Vij's vote on him.
ISO 17 - Compares his angry town self to how he thinks keyen is
behaving. Hesitent to vote keyen.
ISO 18-20 - Says he understands the case on keyen and asks what the
case on JarJar is and sees nothing after JJD ISO.
ISO 21 - Seems to criticize JarJar for questions w/o answers/but his
reads make sense/but he disagrees wrt keyen.
ISO 23-26 - A few posts to indicate gerry would support a Dave (vice
keyen or Gamma) counterwagon to JarJar. Votes Dave.
ISO 27 - Calls back to back votes on Tywin by Gamma and Grey bad.
ISO 28 - Asks 2F for his read on Dave. 2F comes back with a null read on him.
ISO 29 - Ponders why Dave and Gamma are getting TRs.
ISO 30 - Questions 2F associating Dave with being "useless but not
scummy". I.e. gerry suspects Dave.
ISO 31 - Understands keyens reaction to "the lynches" (I assume he
means reaction to "votes on keyen"). Kinda of townreading keyen.
ISO 32-34 - A little PsychoDave bashing.
ISO 38 - Notes he is voting keyen but would be willing to vote Grey.
ISO 39 - Questions votes on keyen and lack of votes on Dave. Lectures
Grey on early claim.
ISO 41 - Agrees with Tywin's case on Dave.
ISO 43 - Questions Tywin on his L-1 keyen vote.
ISO 45 - Agrees w/ JarJar that TwoFace, Rask and Tywin are town. Asks
again for Tywin's reason for voting keyen.
ISO 46 - During twilight laments keyen's lynch as being on upset
town. "he's not mafia"
ISO 47 - Asks Gamma on why he is scumreading him.
ISO 48-49 - Continues defense of keyen post-lynch/pre-flip.
ISO 50 - Agrees with TwoFace about disliking LUV's comments on Grey claim.
ISO 51 - Asks Gamma again on why he is scumreading him.
ISO 52 - Can't believe Dave was town and that Dave should have pushed
Grey harder.
ISO 53 - Continuing to ask Gamma for specifics of scumread.
ISO 54 - NK spec.
ISO 55 - Defends himself against Gamma's scumread specifics.
ISO 56 - A little VC spec....says there was more than 1 scum on keyen wagon.
ISO 57 - Hammers Grey.
ISO 58 - More NK spec....has to be an SK due to bad NKs.
ISO 59 - Soft defense of Gear saying comments by cop!Tywin towards
gear would have been more adamant.
ISO 60 - Apologizes for quick hammer on Grey. I'm not bothered about
the hammer so much as I am about providing a poor excuse.
ISO 61 - Says he would lynch Gamma/Gear/LUV today. One of whom is
confirmed not scum (Gamma) and two of whom I recently anointed as town
reads.
ISO 62 - Questions Gamma on NK'ing his D1 townread (Dave).
ISO 63 - Pats himself on back for his keyen defense.
ISO 64 - Doesn't understand Gamma explanation for shooting Dave.
ISO 66 - Prefers lynching Gear or LUV today. What does everyone else think.
ISO 69 - Votes Gear and IMO acts coy about number of mafia in the game.
ISO 70 - Defends lack of Grey vote to JarJar. Not gonna vote for claimed PR.
ISO 71-72 - Give proof of keyen defense to jarJar.
ISO 73 - Defends quick hammer reasoning to me.
ISO 74 - Any oddly timed objection to TwoFace's vote on him. 30+
posts later despite several posts by Gerry since the 2F vote on him.
ISO 75 - Defends D1 Grey wagon avoidance to TwoFace accusations..one
of which TwoFace is guilty of as well (not voting Grey D1).
ISO 76 - Claims TwoFace's reads are shit. Fair point.
ISO 79 - Claims Gear can't be solo scum. Duh.
ISO 84 - Spot on assessment.
ISO 84 - Willing to vote Gear and LUV based on POE and TwoFace for bad
push on him (gerry).

Summary...

My town read on gerry took a little bit of a hit after going over his
ISO. I think he has been passed by Gear and LUV. I still want to
look over the loooooooong ISO's of JArJar and TwoFace before I lay
down a vote.

I am operating under the assumption there are 2 mafia left in the
game. So my current thinking is that there are 2 scum within Gerry,
TwoFace and JarJar.

More later.

Here, he drops his scumread on Cloud's slot and says there is a maf in Twoface/Jar/Me. Switching his read 180. He still carries the same scumread on twoface throughout this point in the game. Me and him have the same reads throughout this point of the game basically besides me TR jar.

Havingfitz, I don't see anything from your ISO that would lead you to believe to make me your top scumread. Especially when I was your TR

It's more of a poe thing than anything in particular that you did wrong. Though one thing that does come to mind without looking back over my ISO of you that I know I did/do not care for was the way you handled the Grey lynch and subsequent explanation. After reading LUV, Gear and JJD I found them more town than you.

I will be posting my TwoFace ISO thoughts tomorrow morning ...I'm done but I still need to summarize. I will say he is still a suspect for me which is problematic for my other reads because I don't see the two of you being scum together. Which might bump someone else ahead of one of you. I also want to look over Grey's ISO.

Is anyone else doing anything btw? LUV? Gamma...I know you are not mafia at least...any thoughts on who is? Where did GreyICE go?

Spoiler: TwoFace ISO

2f (212 posts)

ISO 0-4 - 2 RVS votes.
ISO 5 - Naked "wheeee" vote on keyen.
ISO 9 - Disputes Gear's comparison to town!keyen "OMGUSing everyone who suspected him."
ISO 10 - confronts keyen about RVS question
ISO 11 - more disputing Gear's keyen tr.
ISO 12 - disagrees with JJD assessment towards Gear+ and him- (2F).
ISO 13-14 - an exchange with Tywin on RVS and a little self meta....followed by approval of Tywin comments disparaging self-meta.
ISO 15 - Questions Gamma town reads on JJD and Gear.
ISO 16 - disputes JJD assessment of his (2f) vote on keyen as not being casual.
ISO 17 - Questions Grey on his vote for JJD.
ISO 18 - An exchange that I think is on the benefits of RVS wagons.
ISO 19 - Agrees with Grey's reason for voting JJD.
ISO 20-21 - Says to keep an eye on Vij for his terrible vote on gerry.
ISO 22 - JJD thinks Vij vote on gerry is fine and 2F responds with "ok"

ISO 24 - Says keyen is a good lynch and that "sometimes rushing isn't so bad."

ISO 25 - If keyen flips scum keep an eye on Tywin.

ISO 26 - Questions how JJD could have a strong townread on Rask this early (at post 181) in the game. How can you have enough of a scum read on keyen to push your opportunistic vote on him towards a rushed lynch this early?

ISO 27 - Repeats Tywin scum if keyen scum comment.
ISO 35 - Defends his earlier Tywin comments to concerns raised by Tywin. Finishes with calling Tywin's post odd.
ISO 36 - Calls keyens reads half-assed. Though he got all of his town reads right (assuming Gamma is a vig as I think is probably the case).
ISO 37 - Disputes gerry town read on keyen and mentioned running to mod regarding to ongoing game comments.
ISO 38 - Defends his play against Tywin concerns.
ISO 39 - Disagrees with Vij comment towards him.
ISO 40 - Agrees with Rask and states JJD seems very town (at post 329)
ISO 41 - Has tiff with Tywin due to suspicions.

Uses inaccurate quote (post 124) to misrep Tywin who was clearly referring to post 180.

ISO 42 - Tywin has dropped down due to lies (Tywin never said).

ISO 43 - Agree with Gamma response to Grey that Tywin's focus is off.
ISO 44 - Pushes keyen (L-5) wagon first.
ISO 46 - Says Dave is null.
ISO 47 - Disputes Kyouko's defense of Tywin and keyen. Refers to proof he gave (with the wrong quotes mentioned above).

ISO 48 - Tells keyen his early vote may have been opportunistic.....2Face only has the one vote on keyen. He kept his keyen vote there all of D1.

ISO 49 - Tells keyen his reaction to being put at L-2 on page 2 of the game is why 2f subsequently has maintained his vote which he has said could be considered opportunistic.

ISO 50 - Admits his case on keyen is weak and that's why he isn't pushing it but there are no better options. I would add here that while 2f says he isn't pushing keyens case....that seems to be all he has focused on up to this point other than very minor shading towards Tywin.

ISO 53-55 - A little tiff with Tywin who thinks 2f attacked him.
ISO 57 - Shows he is not paying attention to the dispute between Gamma and JDD on changing reads. Completely missed it despite it flaring up at least twice.
ISO 59 - States he is not worse than JJD to keyen and dismisses keyen suspicions towards him as ~omgus.
ISO 60 - Defends Dave to Rask.
ISO 61 - Dave is a "useless townie" and 2f would not support a PL. Also makes continued weak push on keyen's "stale wagon."
ISO 62 - Calls JDD to task for voting Gamma despite agreeing with the keyen "stale wagon" assessment. Doesn't know why JDD suspects Gamma despite it being a fairly well laid out subject.
ISO 66 - Agrees with Grey that Gamma is town.
ISO 67 - Agrees with JDD that Grey was defending Tywin prior to voting him.
ISO 68 - Tiff with Tywin...mentions lie he never proved Tywin committed.
ISO 69 - Tells JJD that Grey, Dave and keyen aren't the scum team.
ISO 70-71 - Asks JJD how Tywin can be a townread. Questions any pro-town content by Tywin and says he lied again.
ISO 72 - Tells Vij his scum reads (JJD/TwoFace/Dave) are the worst reads ever. Hindsight: Only 1 has been shown to be wrong.

ISO 73 - Gets in heated tiff with Tywin about lie Tywin never told and end result is Tywin is a liar and keyen is a mafia PR. WTF? I would note that the Grey wagon is gaining traction at this point and 2f has not mentioned it. In fact he has defended Grey as of ISO 69 and made little mention of him otherwise.

ISO 76 - Asks Rask if we

can just lynch keyen because no one else interests him (@537).

Keyen only has 1 vote at this point whereas Grey is up to 3 and JJD and Dave are at 2?
ISO 77 - States Dave is useless but not scummy because of perception. Every game as 1 or 2 useless players according to 2f. Not sure how that excludes them from being suspects.
ISO 81 - Asks keyen why he left Grey off his post 222 reads list. This when Grey has reached 4 votes. No mention of that by 2f.
ISO 83 - If keyen isn't going to happen

2f would be good with a Grey lynch.

Grey is at L-2 at this point @577 and makes his claim in Post 583.

No previous suspicions towards Grey.

ISO 84 - Immediately after Grey's claim (2 posts later) it's back to pushing the keyen wagon. And the very next post is Grey voting keyen to L-5.

ISO 85-86 - Doesn't believe Grey claim but won't lynch PR claims on D1.
ISO 87 - Expresses interest (shade?) on Vij requesting replacement.
ISO 88 - Asks Gamma who he would prefer to lynch (instead of keyen) while Gamma has his vote on JJD.

Not paying attention again.

ISO 89 - Tells Gamma that JJD reads scum to him given that Grey is probably scum. ?????? At this point in the game Grey is voting 2f's top suspect keyen and at not time earlier in the game has 2f given any hint or reasoning for thinking Grey is scum.
ISO 91-93 - Calls keyen scum and Dave lynchbait/PL
96 - continues to suspect keyen for his immediate discrediting efforts following 2Fs opportunistic vote on keyen on page 2. Smh
ISO 97 - crap points against keyen.
ISO 99 - Tells keyen only 3 people are voting him, when it's actually 4, and that he shouldn't worry and just scumhunt.
ISO 102 - Agrees with JJD's assessment of the Grey claim and keyen wagon.
ISO 103 - Working hard to get the keyen lynch through.
ISO 104 - Puts a Grey/keyen/LUV scum team possibility out there.

ISO 107 - Calls Grey caught scum (how so?)

ISO 108 - Claims that keyen just claimed scum. Hyperbole that never occurred of course.
ISO 109 - Tells keyen to stfu.
ISO 111 - Calls Gamma stupid for saying 2f is confirmed scum for not unvoting keyen.
ISO 113 - Discrediting my participation in the game after only 3 posts (I'm here, Hi, Unvote). Nice.
ISO 114 - Applauds potentially catching 2 scum D1.

End of D1

ISO 117 - Immediate vote on Grey
ISO 118 - Defends on JJD comments regarding 2f not wanting to lynch Grey D1. 2f acknowledges his focus was on keyen.
ISO 120 - Discredits LUV a bit for saying he (LUV) didn't see why anyone believed the Grey claim. Accuses him of not reading which is funny given his (2F) lack of awareness on the JJD/Gamma activities D1.
ISO 121 - Calls the vig a dumb ass. Not sure how getting rid of useless null town is a bad move.

ISO 122 - Responds to Kyouko asking the vig to shoot "gear or havingfitz, pref gear" by

encouraging the vig/sk to preferably shoot me instead of gear.

ISO 125 - Says Dave was obviously not scum. 2f's reads are much better with hindsight.
ISO 126 - How does Grey going after Tywin lessen the fact he was very early on Grey's case? Shades Tywin a bit saying neither he nor Grey were on the other very hard.

ISO 127 - Calls Tywin's 180 on keyen suspicious. Not sure how with all the extensive lobbying for the keyen lynch that 2f did.

ISO 128 - Disagrees with Kyouko on level of Dave scumminess.
ISO 129 - States scum try to appear town and he's never seen scum win by being useless.
ISO 130 - Some nice wifom by 2f on why 2f isn't scum.

ISO 131 - Probably 1 more scum on keyen wagon. Great....who is it? You or JJD?

End of D2

ISO 133 - Points out possible crumb by Tywin on Gear.
ISO 135 - Gives gerry crap about his hammer reasoning.
ISO 136 - Votes Gear and asks him to please post content and stop flying under the radar.
ISO 140 - Says he would vote gerry or gear today...

and maybe JarJar?

ISO 142 - Votes Gamma after the vig claim. Doesn't believe the claim.
ISO 144 - Makes decent post wrt Gamma. nai fmpov
ISO 147 - changes read on JJD based on D1 w/ Grey. Gear/gerry and Vijmoi.
ISO 151 - Asks Gamma why not shoot gear or Fitz instead of Kyouko.
ISO 153 - We should lynch gerry....for posts that look very similar to 2f comments on D1 wrt Grey.
ISO 156 - Votes gerry.
ISO 158 - Attacks me and my play style as useless after I include him in a group of a 4 player scumpool.
ISO 161 - Attacks gerry for quick hammer reasoning...says gerry is a liability as town. Nice.
ISO 162 - Scum are in Gear/gerry and fitz.
ISO 163 - gerry didn't refuse to vote Grey D1 any more than you did 2f. Calls gerry scum
ISO 165 - You did the exact thing you are accusing gerry of in this post. See ISO 83.
ISO 166 - How is gerry stalling? Wtf?
ISO 168 - Really thinks Vij replaced out because Grey was getting run up. What a nice imagination.
ISO 177 - gerry is still 2f's desired lynch. Would vote fitz.

Gear/GreyICE has fallen off the list.

ISO 178 - Gives me crap for not ruling out JJD (which I subsequently have) and for not considering Gear who has done nothing. So doing nothing = scum?
ISO 179 - Little discrediting of my opinion and repeat of JJD outrage.
ISO 180 - Why are you pm'ing the mod? WTH is that all about? And if I haven't ruled you out as a suspect up to this point you are most certainly a consideration.
ISO 181 - fu 2f
ISO 182 - Admits he almost always reads me as scum. As I am not always scum your scum reads on me are useless. Why is getting anyone to L-2 a concern wrt having a vig/sk in the game? Unless you plan on pushing a Gamma wagon today...it makes no difference whether we're at L-2 or 1 or lynch.
ISO 185 - @2f...what do you mean your "outed SR on gerry came before you did the ISO and voted him?"
ISO 186 - thin skinned 2f rantings....carry on....
ISO 188 - lol at 2f telling anyone to work on their attitude. Omg that's good :D1
ISO 189-201 - Lots of gerry bashing up to gerry is the right lynch today and more.
ISO 205 - the same could be said for you and keyen D1.

Summary...

TwoFace was right! I suspect him the most. All of the lines in his ISO that I find suspect are highlighted in red or just black.

In short...I suspect TwoFace for tunneling keyen all D1 despite acknowledging that his vote on keyen was opportunistic and that his case on him was weak. That there were no better alternatives to keyen despite a solid effort by JJD towards Gamma; and Tywin, who he had prior to this claimed to have caught in a lie. Wouldn't catching someone in a lie warrant a vote to L-4 more than someone whose case you said was weak and only at L-5?

Additionally I just find him almost completely ignorant of Grey's existence until Grey is at L-2. Then all of a sudden he is ok with lynching Grey. But wait! A claim! Let's just stick with the weak opportunistic keyen wagon. Followed immediately by a vote on the weak opportunistic keyen wagon by Grey... who you are also ok lynching... whose claim you do not believe and you claim is caught scum? So why not pass on keyen and go for the sure thing...the caught scum whose claim you do not believe (i.e. Grey)? Or the liar (Tywin)?

I also do not think TwoFace and gerry would be a likely scum pairing. So gerry moves up a little on my town list. Gear/GreyICE take his place.

TwoFace or GreyICE are the only two I will vote today.

VOTE: TwoFace

Here he continues his scumread on Twoface. The whole game he has had a SR on Twoface despite all the discussions between me and Twoface yesterday, making it clear we are not teamed. And he also went back to making me a TR at this point in the game.

Cloud's not getting any traction.
I don't like the gerry/Cloud buddy vibe.
Perusing some of gerry's scum games I see some similarities to this game.
Progressing this game.
= VOTE: gerry

If someone comes in and hammers and gerry is scum....I hope scum are smart enough to NK Gamma. If he's bulletproof town is already screwed.

If gerry is town....c'est la vie.

Here he shows that his read was once again switched, and mkes up a bad read. Now someone tell me does it make sense to suddenly vote with your hard SR the whole entire game, and vote someone who has had similar reads to you the whole game. His reads and his actions dont match based on what someone who was town would do.

[gerryoat]

I'm reading this but I'm confused already. How can he have dropped his scum read on cloud slot when he never had a scum read on that slot?

Yes he did. Greyice second to last post

[gerryoat]

Now can you vote fitz. Gamma, you need to vote fitz regardless of SK or vig like I said.

[gerryoat]

gerry....it feels like you just drop in....put a few words together to make some sentences...and then think your work is done and people can feel safe about you.

Why should Gamma vote me over his proclaimed target from last night?

Is your case on me that my reads have changed during the game?

Yes
I'm on vacation still. It's hard for me to be active. If you can't tell the difference from day 1 and 2 from the rest. I was not scum read those days when I was not on vacation and able to explain reads more

[gerryoat]

I think gamma tried to target me cause I blew up at him end of day xause I was frustrated

[gerryoat]

Gamma has played enough with me that he should see this is how I always act and should know I'm town.

[gerryoat]

Cloud plays with me all the time on epicmafia.com so that's prob why he TR me

[gerryoat]

Well not only is that a shitty reason. It's technically against the rules.

If you're talking about ogi it's not.

[gerryoat]

Lol he can just see I'm town based on experience with me. Just like gamma is prob doing now

[gerryoat]

Just got here
This is a cursory vote for now, very likely to change
VOTE: CloudKicker

ya, or you could like. vote fitz instead

[gerryoat]

or fitz

[gerryoat]

Gamma, I promise i am town. Fitz is scum. If you think i'm partners with him then just vote him.

[gerryoat]

@gerry - why is cloud not a scum read.

he could have hammered me when i had 3 votes on me. he's confirmed town to me

[gerryoat]

Kinda thinking fitz and gerry is scum
I will place a final vote tonight because

V/LA until tuesday

so I have to choose something
UNVOTE:

if you have any questions just ask. i'm off vacation now so i'll be checking this thread all night. i can explain anything.

[gerryoat]

I'm here TF, still waiting for Gerry to be lynched

Anything else to add?

Not really, just waiting for a flip. The game need one more than anything else at this point.

cool. vote fitz

[gerryoat]

Can someone fucking vote Fitz.

[gerryoat]

Gdi Gerry your ass better be scum. If I lose cause you played like shit.

I have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. you flip scum, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

You were wrong about me last time just like you're wrong about me this time. I played the same as I did that game and the only reason you unvoted me was because you knew I roleblocked the person who died and mechanically couldnt be maf. this is literally just my gameplay, i'm sorry you dont like it. but if you read my previous games you can see this is how i always act.

[gerryoat]

Twoface, i'll try to reason with you one more time. Since i'm on computer now and not on mobile/vacation, it will be easier for me to quote and such. can you tell me something you want me to answer?

[gerryoat]

You day 1 didn't vote scum despite wanting to and when asked about why you didn't you lied about it.

I'm voting PsychoticDave right now, I could vote Grey though, I haven't really liked any of his content.

VC 1.08

-Grey- (5) [L-2]: JarJarDrinks, Tywin Lannister, Lil Uzi Vert, Raskolnikov, ssbm_Kyouko
PsychoticDave (2) [L-5]: Vijarada, gerryoat
JarJarDrinks (2) [L-5]: -Grey-, Gamma Emerald
keyenpeydee (1) [L-6]: TwoFace
TwoFace (1) [L-6]: keyenpeydee

Not Voting (2): PsychoticDave, Gear

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Current Deadline

The current deadline is 7:00PM EST Saturday, December 17, 2016, or (expired on 2016-12-17 19:00:00)

Mod Note

Please don't put votes inside spoilers.

Vijarada has requested replacement.

I'm a bodyguard.

1.

The whole not voting scum day 1 when i mentioned wanting to. As you can see here, the thing you're talking about. If you look at the timings of the three posts, you'll see that after i said that, he claimed bodyguard. He was scared that I was going to put him at L-1 which then made him claim Bodyguard 20 mins after i said I was thinking about voting him if Dave didn't get any more traction. Why would he go straight to claiming if he thought his mafia partner was just posturing and not really going to vote him. I will say again that the timing of the posts are very important, it was a mere 20 mins. I didn't have time to vote him because as soon as i implied i was going to, he went straight to claiming BG.

Claim was a little early.

If there's doctor they should hold off on counterclaiming until d2 minimum.

UNVOTE:

Can't lynch a claim without a counter, at least D1. Will reevaluate.

Why do people keep voting key? And why aren't more people voting PsychoticDave. -Grey- idk if you're new or anything, but you shouldn't have claimed right away like that, you weren't even on L-1 yet.

As you can see here, they said similar things that I did. And when he claimed, he unvoted. You werent even voting Grey at that time, you were focused on key. I thought key was lynchbait and was town. You thought Dave was lynchbait and was town. We both had different views but the same basic thought that one of them was lynchbait and one was scum. (In the end we were both wrong there)

TwoFace: why is Dave lynchbait but key isn't? That's the question I've been wondering this whole time.

I can explain the Dave case at least. Dave has posted all fluff/trash for the majority of his participation. He did answer my questions, but he ignored gerryoats' for some unknown reason. He ignored Rask's earlier questions as well, and I may be forgetting a few. He hasn't posted any reads, because he claimed all are null, but when pushed he did say grey (and key I believe, but I'm on phone so not positive). Regardless, he hasn't asked questions or scum hunted anyone by default. It could be a case of being unfamiliar with forum Mafia, but I'd assume he'd still try to participate when he was told how this works.

So basically, the Dave case boils down to him being 'useless,' which he agreed with when I asked his thoughts on that. His avoidance of answering questions looks scummy, and his lack of scum hunts does as well. He does continue to post, so he's not lurking in the strictest sense, but he's added nothing to help town. By definition, his play as been anti-town.

Wanna add anything to this Gerry?

He explained why we thought Dave was scum and we wanted to know why you didnt think Key was lynchbait as well.

Anyway, that's why I think it was a misunderstanding and I was gonna vote Grey had he not claimed BG 20 mins later. I believe my next post after that was 7 hours later at 4 PM. So i literally had no time. And I was not gonna lynch the BG claim. My argument here is that he had no reason to feel pressured to claim if he really thought I wasnt gonna vote him because I was his partner.

2.

The whole quick hammering day 2.

Okay, I am personally ready to lynch Grey.

VOTE: grey
if this flips scum vig gear or havingfitz, pref gear.
L-1 I think

intent to hammer

I'm ready. Is everyone else voting ready?

Here are all posts from hours before I posted. There was no objections to Gamma when he said that he had an intent to hammer, so I thought it was okay to hammer when i came back. But, even so, I didn't hammer right away. I gave more time as you can see from these posts.

Yeah I'm not sure why any of you guys bought that claim.

VOTE: Grey

L-1

I don't think anyone bought it. are you reading? multiple people said they thought the claim was not legit

I agree. Don't like this line from Lil Uzi

I'm thinking ssbm for one. That clears Gear imo. TF, JJD, and fitz aren't feeling particularly scummy, and Tywin is already clear.
That leaves gerry and LUV. I feel gerry is the more likely of the two.

You still haven't given a reason for scumreading me. Or is it only POE?

I can't believe Dave was town, he also should have pushed on -grey- harder.

Are we waiting for a hammer? If so

VOTE: -Grey-

I'm pretty sure there isn't a BG and a Doctor for town.

From the time that Gamma had intent to hammer and the time i hammered was 5+ hours with people talking inbetween including yourself. I waited an hour after my original post. You were talking and others were talking and no one asked for more time after gamma said that he had intent to hammer, so I figured hammering was okay at the time. Why didn't you say you wanted more time when Gamma said he had intent to hammer? That would have made things easier and not allowed a hammer if you wanted more time.

3.

You say that I lied about fitz slot having a good reason to fos me, and you not.

As you can remember, fitz slot was first occupied by Vij

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

VOTE: Gerryoat

This is a bad vote because you've played with me enough to know I say this every game. Did you finally flip maf and trying to push a vote, despite knowing that this is something that I regularly say?

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

Three posts

"Hi"
"I dislike RVS"
"We're out of RVS yay!"

This is a very intentional effort to avoid moving the game foward. VOTE: Gerryoat

His vote on me is bad, but his reasoning isn't bad. I can see from his point of view from someone who hasn't played with me how this can seem. But, it's only been 5 pages, how do you expect me to move the game forward when the first 5 pages of so of every game people spout random votes on reaction test votes that are baseless?

As you can see by these posts, Gamma had experience with me, so he knew I did this type of things always so i thought it was a bad reason to fos me when he knows I do it all the time. Vij, on the other had has no experience with me, so from his point of view, I could see why he thought that I was just going through the motions or something like that.

P-Edit for Gerryoat: I think his unvote early in the game seemed pretty forced, and he's reached a couple of times in ways that I don't like. I also believe that his high activity is an illusion, as he asks many questions but does not provide a lot of opinions on his own (this is my first impression from a cursory ISO, it may turn out that this is not his activity at all, but that is what it seemed like).

He went on to explain it more, which I thought sounded reasonable.

The reason I thought that your scumread was unreasonable was because as I mentioned in #2. You said you didn't want a quick hammer, but you gave no objection to gamma when he said he had intent to hammer. and it was 5 hours after that that i hammered. So in my mind, i thought that you were just going to try and tunnel me like you did the last time to make me think that you were just town doing it again. In that sense, I might have messed up.

Anyway, sorry i couldnt give indepth answers before cause I really didnt have the time. If there is anything else you want me to answer, I can try to.

Sorry for the long post but I want everyone to read.

[gerryoat]

Please read what i posted, it answers the things you thought i was lying about and i think they are misunderstandings.

[gerryoat]

i am perfectly fine being wrong about gerry being scum, but what i can't do is vote with gerry to lynch somebody and turn out gerry was scum all along.

ngl, I've been there before on another site. I understand why you're feeling that way, which is why you're prob town. that and the unvoting. Just read the big post I made, and if there is any more questions, then ask. After that, if you still think i'm scum, then there is nothing i can do.

[gerryoat]

ssbm and dave right?

and please read it. at least part

[gerryoat]

Regardless what happens. I hate you and if you are scum I'm mad at everyone who didn't listen and lynch you like I said.

Not sure what I'm going to do yet.

you can hate me, but at least read the post

[gerryoat]

Did you read the post yet?

[gerryoat]

You were asking for me to respond, and i did now that i actually have time.

[gerryoat]

Oh come on, I've tried making peace. It's just a game, no need to get like this over it

[gerryoat]

Dude you told me to drink bleach. That's not part of the game.

I read you're post. I can't tell if you're being genuine or BSing though.

I'll decide who I vote based on my own re-reads. If I feel like the day is going to end in a NL I'll hammer fitz cause a NL is a town loss anyway.

If you can just respect my wishes and don't talk to me anymore that's great. Once this game is over I'll add you to my foe list and I'll never see another post from you again.

I apologize for that. I was wrong, I shouldn't have said that. Honestly, game aside. ANd thanks for reading the post.

[gerryoat]

Is anyone a telepath? Beam me th solutions please lol

[gerryoat]

Twoface, i could have also hammered fitz too. both his scumreads could have hammered him

[gerryoat]

VC 3.05

havingfitz (3) [L-1]: JarJarDrinks, TwoFace, Lil Uzi Vert
TwoFace (2) [L-2]: gerryoat, havingfitz


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald, CloudKicker

Lynch Threshold

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Current Deadline

The current deadline is 10:00PM EST Saturday, December 31, 2016, or (expired on 2016-12-31 22:00:00)

Mod Notes

Deadline extended 48 hours due to holiday and replacement.

havingfitz (3) [L-1]: JarJarDrinks (Town), TwoFace(Town), Lil Uzi Vert (Bus)
TwoFace (2) [L-2]: gerryoat (Town), havingfitz(scum)


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald (Vig or SK), CloudKicker(Town)

[gerryoat]

This game is giving me an ulcer and it shouldn't. It's a fucking game.

do you have any more questions for me after you read the post?

[gerryoat]

Fitz is arguing that 2 people that could have hammered him are scum lol.

[gerryoat]

Fitz fucked up, he figured you'd just tunnel me into the ground and that gamma would just vote me since he voted me yesterday and tried to vig me. he thought he could coast to a scum win with it lol

[gerryoat]

Links to the games and posts that are similar

I asked for this earlier and he couldnt produce

Like i said. only maf 2 times on this site so far. 1.) me and my partner argued so much (like me and you argued) that we were mod warned. (the arguing was part of the plan) If he sees similarities in that game, he would think me and you are partners.

2.) i was traitor with eager and manuel. Eager got lynched day 1 but they bussed each other so well that manuel was universal townread (i wouldnt need to bus and couldnt bus because i would lose my win con as traitor if he was lynched, and he was the universal TR by EVERYONE literally EVERYONE.)

Both games have nothing similar to this game. He's bullshiting

[gerryoat]

Oh damn i forgot gamma was in that game lol. He should know over anyone that this game and the other is not similar. Or he would have had a harder scumread on me.

[gerryoat]

I see nothing similar. Are you telling me that asking someone to unvote is similar? lol

[gerryoat]

i'm pretty sure asking someone to unvote is pretty common. but ok. whatever fitz ur agenda. (see what i did there)

[gerryoat]

So your whole basis on a 180 flip read on me and your previous scumread twoface is that I asked people to unvote in a game i was traitor, so that automatically means i am mafia this game.

[gerryoat]

So your

whole basis on a 180 flip read

on me and your previous scumread twoface

is that I asked people to unvote in a game i was traitor

, so that automatically means i am mafia this game.

My "180" on you came way before I looked into your previous scum games.... nice misrep. And who cares if you were a traitor? You were scum...you knew it...and you did not want to be lynched.

havingfitz, I still think your slow could be town cause even tho Vij had a bad read on me, his thought process was townie. But

your 180 read flip on me

when 2face suddenly voted me is sketchy

Cloud's not getting any traction.
I don't like the gerry/Cloud buddy vibe.
Perusing some of gerry's scum games I see some similarities to this game.
Progressing this game.
= VOTE: gerry

If someone comes in and hammers and gerry is scum....I hope scum are smart enough to NK Gamma. If he's bulletproof town is already screwed.

If gerry is town....c'est la vie.

yes its different on mylo

[gerryoat]

I see nothing similar. Are you telling me that asking someone to unvote is similar? lol

When you do it repeatedly in this game. And you do it even more repeatedly in your last finished scum game (one of two I could find and that you admit to having)...then yes. That is a similarity. As scum you would of course not agree with it.

Here is a recent town game of yours where you were in from the start. You were a Doctor. And yet as your wagon grew you did not bother to ask anyone to unvote you once:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

So you have to disagree. Hopefully

Gamma

fcuking gets in here and wakes up and votes you.

I did not think I would be yolo hammered randomly by someone popping out of nowhere, and I was PR not really wanting to claim. That's 2 different scenarios.

[gerryoat]

You made several posts when you were at L-1 in the game I link to.

do you understand what mylo means

[gerryoat]

Twoface, you realize if you force NL you're giving maf the win. Just vote fitz

[gerryoat]

talking to yourself in the 3rd person? lmao

[gerryoat]

Town can win. I am town. As hard as it is for you to believe

[gerryoat]

A wise person once said.

[gerryoat]

I've asked cloud for info twice and twice he's not provided it. That's not town behavior.

That's literally Cloud lol. I can link you epicmafia games of him doing that as town if you want

[gerryoat]

TwoFace, i'm so proud of you right now, I could cry.

[gerryoat]

he didnt like that i said his posts were bad lol

that's literally his case on me, i kid you not

[gerryoat]

lmao, i'm so glad twoface is finally seeing the light. tell me why that would make you jump the 3 scumreads you had before me

[gerryoat]

hi uzi what are your reads

Hey!

I'm down with one of Fitz, Gamma, or Gear today.

I feel like there is a small chance we are all being duped by JJD but I think he's town this game.

[gerryoat]

and then 1016 suddenly makes me jump those

[gerryoat]

^^^

His inital reason was to move along the game and that i "buddied" cloud too much. but that doesnt explain why he dropped his scumread on you so easily

[gerryoat]

VC 4.09

havingfitz (3) [L-1]: CloudKicker, gerryoat, Gamma Emerald
gerryoat (2) [L-2]: Lil Uzi Vert, havingfitz


Not Voting (1): TwoFace

Lynch Threshold

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Current Deadline

The current deadline is 11:00AM EST Tuesday, January 17, 2016, or (expired on 2017-01-17 11:00:00)

@Twoface please hurry and hammer maf. i gave good reasons for the misunderstandings and concerns you had

[gerryoat]

NL= MAFIA WIN.

LYNCHING FITZ = LYNCHING MAFIA AND WE GET ANOTHER DAY.

PLEASE JUST VOTE.

[gerryoat]

tomorrow morning? you have 19 hours

[gerryoat]

ohhh okay

[gerryoat]

fitz is trying his last plea to win lol. he hasn't sufficiently answered any questions

[gerryoat]

Gamma you're gonna lose the game regardless if you're SK or vig if i'm hammered. so you better unvote quick.

Also, I was just responding to what Twofaced said and I agree with it.

[gerryoat]

Well I'm town 2F. I can't fight paranoia and gut. If there is something more tangible that you have issues with I can try to address those. But I hope gameplay guides your choices.

And as for who I have or haven't suspected and any changes I've made in reads...I think I have suspected everyone still alive at some point and had votes on everyone (except Gamma ironically iirc). Reason being? I'm town and do not know wtf scum is. Reads have changed. Shit has happened. Where I stand now is a gerry Cloud scumteam based on the fact I'm still alive and that neither of them have done anything pro-town that I can recall (gerry today....Cloud's slot ever).



Also,

Seriously Gamma

...vote gerry.

Cloud could have hammered you yesterday but didn't. Whys he a scum read? A mislynch yesterday helps scum get closer to a win not hurt it.

Fitz is arguing that 2 people that could have hammered him are scum lol.

[gerryoat]

Spoiler: Gamma did you even read all of this

You day 1 didn't vote scum despite wanting to and when asked about why you didn't you lied about it.

I'm voting PsychoticDave right now, I could vote Grey though, I haven't really liked any of his content.

VC 1.08

-Grey- (5) [L-2]: JarJarDrinks, Tywin Lannister, Lil Uzi Vert, Raskolnikov, ssbm_Kyouko
PsychoticDave (2) [L-5]: Vijarada, gerryoat
JarJarDrinks (2) [L-5]: -Grey-, Gamma Emerald
keyenpeydee (1) [L-6]: TwoFace
TwoFace (1) [L-6]: keyenpeydee

Not Voting (2): PsychoticDave, Gear

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Current Deadline

The current deadline is 7:00PM EST Saturday, December 17, 2016, or (expired on 2016-12-17 19:00:00)

Mod Note

Please don't put votes inside spoilers.

Vijarada has requested replacement.

I'm a bodyguard.

1.

The whole not voting scum day 1 when i mentioned wanting to. As you can see here, the thing you're talking about. If you look at the timings of the three posts, you'll see that after i said that, he claimed bodyguard. He was scared that I was going to put him at L-1 which then made him claim Bodyguard 20 mins after i said I was thinking about voting him if Dave didn't get any more traction. Why would he go straight to claiming if he thought his mafia partner was just posturing and not really going to vote him. I will say again that the timing of the posts are very important, it was a mere 20 mins. I didn't have time to vote him because as soon as i implied i was going to, he went straight to claiming BG.

Claim was a little early.

If there's doctor they should hold off on counterclaiming until d2 minimum.

UNVOTE:

Can't lynch a claim without a counter, at least D1. Will reevaluate.

Why do people keep voting key? And why aren't more people voting PsychoticDave. -Grey- idk if you're new or anything, but you shouldn't have claimed right away like that, you weren't even on L-1 yet.

As you can see here, they said similar things that I did. And when he claimed, he unvoted. You werent even voting Grey at that time, you were focused on key. I thought key was lynchbait and was town. You thought Dave was lynchbait and was town. We both had different views but the same basic thought that one of them was lynchbait and one was scum. (In the end we were both wrong there)

TwoFace: why is Dave lynchbait but key isn't? That's the question I've been wondering this whole time.

I can explain the Dave case at least. Dave has posted all fluff/trash for the majority of his participation. He did answer my questions, but he ignored gerryoats' for some unknown reason. He ignored Rask's earlier questions as well, and I may be forgetting a few. He hasn't posted any reads, because he claimed all are null, but when pushed he did say grey (and key I believe, but I'm on phone so not positive). Regardless, he hasn't asked questions or scum hunted anyone by default. It could be a case of being unfamiliar with forum Mafia, but I'd assume he'd still try to participate when he was told how this works.

So basically, the Dave case boils down to him being 'useless,' which he agreed with when I asked his thoughts on that. His avoidance of answering questions looks scummy, and his lack of scum hunts does as well. He does continue to post, so he's not lurking in the strictest sense, but he's added nothing to help town. By definition, his play as been anti-town.

Wanna add anything to this Gerry?

He explained why we thought Dave was scum and we wanted to know why you didnt think Key was lynchbait as well.

Anyway, that's why I think it was a misunderstanding and I was gonna vote Grey had he not claimed BG 20 mins later. I believe my next post after that was 7 hours later at 4 PM. So i literally had no time. And I was not gonna lynch the BG claim. My argument here is that he had no reason to feel pressured to claim if he really thought I wasnt gonna vote him because I was his partner.

2.

The whole quick hammering day 2.

Okay, I am personally ready to lynch Grey.

VOTE: grey
if this flips scum vig gear or havingfitz, pref gear.
L-1 I think

intent to hammer

I'm ready. Is everyone else voting ready?

Here are all posts from hours before I posted. There was no objections to Gamma when he said that he had an intent to hammer, so I thought it was okay to hammer when i came back. But, even so, I didn't hammer right away. I gave more time as you can see from these posts.

Yeah I'm not sure why any of you guys bought that claim.

VOTE: Grey

L-1

I don't think anyone bought it. are you reading? multiple people said they thought the claim was not legit

I agree. Don't like this line from Lil Uzi

I'm thinking ssbm for one. That clears Gear imo. TF, JJD, and fitz aren't feeling particularly scummy, and Tywin is already clear.
That leaves gerry and LUV. I feel gerry is the more likely of the two.

You still haven't given a reason for scumreading me. Or is it only POE?

I can't believe Dave was town, he also should have pushed on -grey- harder.

Are we waiting for a hammer? If so

VOTE: -Grey-

I'm pretty sure there isn't a BG and a Doctor for town.

From the time that Gamma had intent to hammer and the time i hammered was 5+ hours with people talking inbetween including yourself. I waited an hour after my original post. You were talking and others were talking and no one asked for more time after gamma said that he had intent to hammer, so I figured hammering was okay at the time. Why didn't you say you wanted more time when Gamma said he had intent to hammer? That would have made things easier and not allowed a hammer if you wanted more time.

3.

You say that I lied about fitz slot having a good reason to fos me, and you not.

As you can remember, fitz slot was first occupied by Vij

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

VOTE: Gerryoat

This is a bad vote because you've played with me enough to know I say this every game. Did you finally flip maf and trying to push a vote, despite knowing that this is something that I regularly say?

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

Three posts

"Hi"
"I dislike RVS"
"We're out of RVS yay!"

This is a very intentional effort to avoid moving the game foward. VOTE: Gerryoat

His vote on me is bad, but his reasoning isn't bad. I can see from his point of view from someone who hasn't played with me how this can seem. But, it's only been 5 pages, how do you expect me to move the game forward when the first 5 pages of so of every game people spout random votes on reaction test votes that are baseless?

As you can see by these posts, Gamma had experience with me, so he knew I did this type of things always so i thought it was a bad reason to fos me when he knows I do it all the time. Vij, on the other had has no experience with me, so from his point of view, I could see why he thought that I was just going through the motions or something like that.

P-Edit for Gerryoat: I think his unvote early in the game seemed pretty forced, and he's reached a couple of times in ways that I don't like. I also believe that his high activity is an illusion, as he asks many questions but does not provide a lot of opinions on his own (this is my first impression from a cursory ISO, it may turn out that this is not his activity at all, but that is what it seemed like).

He went on to explain it more, which I thought sounded reasonable.

The reason I thought that your scumread was unreasonable was because as I mentioned in #2. You said you didn't want a quick hammer, but you gave no objection to gamma when he said he had intent to hammer. and it was 5 hours after that that i hammered. So in my mind, i thought that you were just going to try and tunnel me like you did the last time to make me think that you were just town doing it again. In that sense, I might have messed up.

Anyway, sorry i couldnt give indepth answers before cause I really didnt have the time. If there is anything else you want me to answer, I can try to.

Sorry for the long post but I want everyone to read.

[gerryoat]

Gerry had fitz as a tr
not sure bout CK

Do you not understand why that changed. Why would he suddenly vote with his SR the entire game.

[gerryoat]

lol town loses regardless.

It's obvious Gamma is SK. Gamma you should kill TwoFace if you wanna chance to win, cause he's obvs not my partner. If you kill my partner you're in autoloss

Partner, don't kill Gamma, he needs to be alive tomorrow.

Have fun

[gerryoat]

sorry but doc/cop/RB/vig is wayyyy too strong for town.

[gerryoat]

grey was terrible day 1 and the other slot was dead weight until cloud came in lol

[gerryoat]

Hey why did you guys kill me did you think I was PR or something?

i thought you were townie

[gerryoat]

^