Mini 533: Something wicked this way comes! Game over!

[geraintm]

/confirm
and 4

[geraintm]

vote ZeekLTK

cause i said i'd vote for teh 4th person who voted.
i'll have to go round now and see what everyone is getting so uppity about...

and to let people know, i am unlikely to ever post at the weekend over the coruse of this game.
Can i ask at this early stage what is likely to happen over the xmas period?

[geraintm]

I don't mind getting lynched today as long as it convinces the rest of the town to lynch Zeek on D2, that's how much I think Zeek is scum. I think the lynch of a townie is a fair trade for the lynch of a scumbag.

my god, this game is going fast. not everyone has posted yet, and already Slayer is thinking about day 2 lynches.

i haven't played with anyone here before i think, but can anyoen cofmirm if Slayer is always like this? it will be hard to actualyl read the game with the amount of noise he is going to generate.

but Slayer, please don't make statements like you just did. there is no way any right thining person can be as sure of someone else's scumminess as you are right now. it is most unhelpful.

[geraintm]

sorry for being late. i'm not usually inactive but i've been on a business trip.

in any case:

vote: discipline_slayer

for clearly being scum

i don't think he is clearly scum, just at the moment i really don't like his style of play. He may be prone to wild accusations all the time, i don't know and asked for advice on what he is normally like.

[geraintm]

Then lynch me and see what happens. Jeez. You'll understand in time. Just make sure that if I hit L-1 not to lynch me until I get to explain my actions. That being said, the player who decides to hammer before I post my final thoughts is definitely a scum suspect, since the information I'm planning on posting is quite beneficial for the town.

I'm not going to make any power roleclaims, if that's what you're thinking. I'm a vanilla townie.

Now, where are your reasons for voting me?

Granted, your bullshit vote DID spark discussion. More to come on this on my final post at L-1, when the time comes.

Is anyone else expecting Slayer to start self voting for himself any time soon?
Slayer, i can't remember a game i have been in where someone has made it so easy for there to exist a bandwagon to lynch someone so quickly day one.
It is getting hard not to vote for you, just to see what else you say.
if you are town, you are making today very, very easy for the bad guys who i think will be able to focus all the attention on you and they will be able to stay under the radar.

[geraintm]

Well based on my role I am pretty sure there are no vanilla townies in this game, so either way (if he's jester or not), he is lying to us.

this got my spidey senses tingling. If you are town Zeek, then this is a blunder.
And Slayer, i have no clue why you want to be put so close to getting yourself lynched. i have no idea what you can be up to where getting yourself "nearly" lynched is a good thing.
I have no clue what you could possibly say if you did get that close that wouldn't result in you actualyl getting lyched

[geraintm]

i agree.

vote disciple

i repeatedly said disciple that i thought you were playing very poorly for a townie, and you havent changed

[geraintm]

right now, zeek is the person i am most suspcious of. i didn't like his play day 1 and still don't like it

day 1 moved way too fast for my liking. it felt like we rushed it. didnt help DS made it so easy for people to pil eon

the shot to kill Yvonne was very good. my reading of yvonne now of yesterday was your typical cautious cop, not wanting anyone to rush the game. do people think scum managed to guess she was a cop or got lucky?

[geraintm]

I got the prod. I posted friday, and i don't have access at the weekends. Seems quick fingered mod
WIll make proper post later on

[geraintm]

I am still caught on Zeek. This game has thrown me. Yesterday DS played so weirdly icouldn't read him at all, i couldnt see a situation where he could be town.
And zeek, i again am sitting here going "if he is town, then i can't understand why he has acted as he has"

[geraintm]

The fact that both QuickBen and soupfly are voting for me should be proof enough that I'm a townie.

oh dear zeek. this is a horible thing to say. if i voted for you too, would that make you even more of a townie?

it is a shame that half your defence consists of nothing but badly thought out arguments like this. cause when you make points with some actual thought and reasoning behind them (like your look at Quickben), you make sense

[geraintm]

Vote: Zeek

, he s refused to answer my questions about WIFOM, and has in fact tryed to "confirm" himself on even worse logic.

this seems mighty harsh on Zeek. He seems to be trying to answer everyone's questions. you might not like what he is saying but please give him credit for trying. He appears the most active played in teh game, and coming from someone whose usual post is two lines...

[geraintm]

sorry, forgot to mention
due to xmas, tomorrow will be the last day i can post till after the new year
i am sorry if this causes the game to crash.

[geraintm]

They generally cause difficulty for the Town in two ways. First, because (while the Jester is alive) they aim to prevent the Town from lynching Scum. Second, because their attempts to get themselves lynched inevitably involve trying to convince the Town that they are Scum, and thereby cause confusion and distraction for as long as they are alive.

That is exactly what it felt like DS was doing, and it is anti-town.

i have to add, it felt like this to me too. And personally, i was prepared to take a risk that DS was a very poor playing townie and i voted for him, because even as a townie i thought he was hindering the town with his play.

[geraintm]

michael, i dont understand
you write a long post at soupfly where you go through his actions and zeeks, none of your comments seem to be pro soup at all, yet you started the message off unvoting soup and voting lowell?
merely because soup posted you invoted him?

[geraintm]

i am back from holidays
have read what i can now and tried to make sense of it
i know where my suspicions lie at the moment, but i am nowhere near voting. this game cant afford to go to day 3 with so little info

[geraintm]

Do you mind making your suspicions a bit more explicit, geraintm? And not only on the player you'll be voting for, please. Based on the posts you made I don't really know what I can expect from you. And that's a bad thing.

If we have a vig you should kill DS on the first night. That way if he's the jester he loses and if he's mafia he's still dead.

his post on the 9th - he quotes saying DS is saying he is vanilla, but he had said 3 days previous he thinks there are no vanilla in the game. why isn't he voting for DS right there? instead, he had voted on teh 7th for Lowell...

but, i havent got any strong suspiscions as to who else might be scum. hence me reluctance to push today

[geraintm]

You have no opinions whatsoever about anyone in the game but Zeek?!

no, but nothing anywhere near me being able to cast suspiscions. hence my wanting to go nowehere near night yet

Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to say when you quote the line in which he says a vig should kill DS. That's not the post he made on the 9th.

sorry, i had notes on paper and didn't write the post properly, igot confused quoting from multiple posts.
i quoted that because i find anyone fishing for info on vog that early in a game suspicous.

[geraintm]

who says i think zeek is a miller?

and zeeks post on the vig, yeah i thought it was fishing. even if no one responds, i don't like people who sit around and say things like "the cop should invesitage so and so" or the doc should protect this guy. i think it is normally in the interests of the town to keep the existence of any roles secret especially at teh start of teh game, and the peopel who push forward mention of roles so early are not to be trusted

[geraintm]

The way you've been harping on the one popular target all game is a great find.

Well based on my role I am pretty sure there are no vanilla townies in this game, so either way (if he's jester or not), he is lying to us.

might have been harping on Zeek a lot, but only since this post of his.
i have found this game difficult, i haven't picked up much on many players, and so the one thing i havefound wrong i have not dropped. I also found his introduction of the whole jester thing strange. i didn't think jester's would be in this game, and he used the kester thing to confuse the first day too much.
sorry if you don't like that i have concentrated on just the one person i have found suspicous

[geraintm]

3)

FOS geraintm

. 145 is just a weird post, and many of his posts have the same thread of just skimming the surface of what is happening. He's around, he makes clear, but I'm not sure he's actually added anything.

sorry my post 145 was so weird. why didn't people at the time ask me to explain what i meant more?
it was just a fairly quick post after teh game had restarted. i said where my suspicsions were (Zeek)
i said i felt day one moved too fast but also said i didn't really blame anyone for that as the lynchee was so easy to lynch. bascially this bit says i don't think we can look too clsoely at who did the lynching at the end and make assuptions about their mafianess because i think townies had good reason to vote for him

and the last part was my commenting on yvonne's behaviour, i thought the mafia picking her was a good shot. i was hoping someone else would have had some ideas how they picked her out

OhMyGod - partly what makes me not like your play today is that you jumped onto michaels post about me but didn't actualyl look yourself. if yo u had looked at michaels drubbing of me and my harping on zeek, yo umight have noticed that i haven't ever voted for zeek (excepting the initial random vote), even though there have been plenty of oppotunities to do so. for someone who suposedlt has it in for zeek, i feel i havent actually pushed him that close to a lynch at all. and if you hadn;t so lazily just followed Michaels posting and used it as an excuse to vote for me, you might have noticed that

[geraintm]

vote Ohgodmy life

to me he appears to jump on band waggons very easily. his voting for me was such, and he never explained at what point i didn't become his chief suspect for lynching, he didn't reply to my message aimed at him. his switch to lowell was too quick and to me just felt like he knew nothing was building on me and so he went for the next person he could go for.OGML just seems on every bandwagon

[geraintm]

Gerain: "day 1 moved way too fast for my liking. it felt like we rushed it. didnt help DS made it so easy for people to pil eon" Interesting: Did you do anything to try and stop it before he was lynched? Were you on the wagon? Were you trying to convince others he should be lynched? No? Yes?

More bad points for Gerain: Directing the vig day one, then asking the town why Yvonne was targetted?

i was in on the vote for DS. my explanation at the time said i thought DS was playing so poorly i couldn't beleive him as town. If he was town, then his loss wasn't going to be felt too much.

If we have a vig you should kill DS on the first night. That way if he's the jester he loses and if he's mafia he's still dead.

i quoted here Zeeks post, because you seem to think that i was directing the vig, but it was Zeek. I brought this up later because i felt it was something scummy Zeek had done.

[geraintm]

you do know there's a difference between trying to lynch someone and trying to pressure them. being that i'm a townie i don't know who's scum and am casting suspicion in different areas. ogml, petunho and even quickben were attempts to put pressure on people. the only vote that i really believed in was the one on you and even that i wasn't too comfortable with due to you being a poor player. i honestly don't have a good feel at the moment for who is scum.

the only thing that i'm pretty sure of in this game is that MichelSableheart is a townie. his play has been very solid and balanced. i'll probably follow his lead.

so i'm going to

unvote: QuickBen

because now that i've admitted it was a pressure vote, there's no more pressure.

hate this post. i feel as a townie i should place my vote sparingly. putting on poorly thought out votes to place pressure doesn't do this, and all it does is confuse your voting patterns. the less votes placed in a game the better, easy to follow suspicous voting patters. shifting your votes around just allows mafia to hide easier.

need skruff to come back now though to answer all the questions he has generated

[geraintm]

The point of my post was to C) prove that I've read through the entire game.

yeah, i know it was a lot to read, but you got some things 100% wrong. when you have read people's corrections to what you wrote, has it changed your opinion at all?

i feel as a townie i should place my vote sparingly.

I disagree. But that's not terribly important.

minor ethical aside.
what do you think then? townies should be very active and switch their votes around a lot, picking up ne whunches for their suspiscions and dropping tem just as fast?

[geraintm]

Right now, i can't make up my mind over zeek.
i hated the miller thing, really do, but despite that i can't bring myself to vote for him and haven't really come close at any point in the game

Soupfly - dislike your post 310. i don't like posts that add nothing to the game except add helpful information. helpful posts like that ring alarm bells to me

Skruffs - post 319 - mentioning on day one about the jester was what confused yesterday.
today you are suggesting weird poison delay killings. and i can't see that happening in this game. i can't beleive there are roles that weird, as with the jester.
you entered the game with what appeared at first glance a very helpful couple ofposts, but since then you have become less and less useful.

i feel like my posts just keep on saying what i think is good and bad play...

[geraintm]

MSH - your post above and your switching to voting Skruffs seems to be based on skruffs mentioning the poison? how come you give me no credit at all for mentioning this exact thing in the one post previous??

and now i am going to have to say i don't like you bringing up the possible existence of a serial killer. where did that come from? there is no reason to suppose there is a SK in this game at all?

And there is, of course, his response to the fact that Yvonne was reveiled to be a cop.

what do you mean by this? is this referring to my post of dec 14th??

[geraintm]

soupfly - votes seem to be part of trends - the vote on quickben admitted as a random vote that helped create bandwagon on him that he jumped off and then back on again

the votes for zeek early on in day 2 - twice

dec 11th post - allowing himself wiggle room
but he had forced zeek to push DS under a bus and his post on dec 12 blaming zeek doesn't work. you can't force someone to hammer and then just not take any responsibility yourself

to my eyes, he looks like he forced the lynching of a townie day one and early day two tried to get a lynch going on zeek that i think he shouldn't have been involved in for the reasons he stated
he then switches his vote to quickben based on the argument of Zeek, the person he believes to be scum (even though on the 8th he had backed off from zeek when it looks like zeek is not going to get lynched.)

i have to admit, at this point in the game i don't think zeek is lying about his miller claim. i think he is wrong about some of his reasoning, but i believe him to be a miller.

anyways

vote soupfly

[geraintm]

There are many reasons why a mafia wouldn't kill. It could be that they chose not to kill. It could be that they are not allowed to kill every night. It could be that a doctor prevented their kill. It could be that they're roleblocked.

you can't have a go at skruffs for picking up on the posoning thing as finding something that isn't there, and then make a guess as such weird things as in this type of game having a mafia that can't kill every night

and your post to me seems like sucking up to zeek too much, as if you know him to be town and buddying up to him

[geraintm]

I was unjustly accused of having claimed that the mafia did not send in a kill.

To be honest, till you mentioned it, I did not think about it much, thought of it as pure flavour. When you brought it up, however, I realised that poison isn't the usual flavour of a mafia kill. It's more what you would expect of a serial killer, unless each mafia goon has a different MO, what is unlikely given the townie pm in the third post. Therefore, if the flavour matters somehow, I believe it's likely that we have multiple killing groups, probably a mafia and an SK, where the mafia didn't kill last night for whatever reason.

that def sounds liek you saying teh mafia didn't kill last night to me?


find it odd that everyone is sitting here asking questions like "who led the bandwagon?" and when i did it on "did i think it was a lucky shot getting the cop "it keeps on getting brought by..michael...

You even *teach* him how to behave as town; something exactly the same as Gorgon did in Mafia 499, something that ONLY scum do: Vote someone for hteir bad behavior while simultaneously attempting to 'help' them by either pointing out the mistakes they made (As if you know they are mistakes).

i was sure i had said something myself in the game before, but i hadn't
i don't like his buddying up to zeek either.
but pelase dn't say it is something only mafia do. it is something over-pompous people do too
(and yes michael, that last part was a back-handed defence of you, even if the first part wasn't)

[geraintm]

The reason I am not suspicious of, nor looking into, MichelSabelheart is:

a) He is the only player who understood the miller claim and helped explain it.
Therefore, I find it highly unlikely that he would have stopped the bandwagon against me if he were scum as I was an easy target for scum to mislynch following the DS hammer.

Basically, if he is scum, he's an idiot

b) All of the people attacking him are the people I am suspicious of being scum. If (people who I think are) scum are attacking someone, most likely they are attacking a townie instead of one of their own scum buddies.

zeek, a few people have mentioned their worries that Michael has been buddying up to you the last few days.
you say a scum wouldn't stop a bandwagon on you as a townie, but i am afraid it isn't that unusual for a mafia member to make themselves a friend and use the "i was defending this nice town person from being lynched, i couldn't possibly be scum" defence.

are you suspicious of me being scum??

[geraintm]

oh, and i realise now that my last post looks like i am guiding zeek (something i have told others off for), but zeek seems like he had never considered the situation so it had to be brought up

[geraintm]

As I quoted in my previous post, I already decided that it was unlikely that DS was a jester in post #84, not immediately after Zeek put DS at L-1.

Having thought about it, I don't think a jester is very likely in a mini normal. Then again, Disciple Slayer sure feels like he's wanting to get himself at L-1 as fast as possible.

you can see why people might be confused. you have the whole "having thought about it" part
but the next sentence you go "then again..."

how much room to wriggle did you want to give yourself?

[geraintm]

, SensFan comes in, votes DS, and convinces geraintm to vote. OGML votes because he wants DS to explain himself,

? my vote was my own decision, noone forced me. sensfen did not convicne me at all, sensfen just posted the post of DS that would have triggered my vote without sensfen.

and this MS/zeek pairing is just plain weird...never come across two players like it. they make me think of the coen brotehrs, each finishing the others sentences

He said that he thought DS was scum... does that answer your question??

[geraintm]

and this MS/zeek pairing is just plain weird...never come across two players like it. they make me think of the coen brotehrs, each finishing the others sentences

He said that he thought DS was scum... does that answer your question??

Did you read the Michel quote ABOVE that line you quoted? (it was in the SAME post)

yes. i was selectivly quoting you to show how i consider you two to be Joel and Ethan
and zeek, i know you can't see that you have done anything wrong, but please give the other players some credit if they find your miller claim suspicous. there are reasons why mafia would claim miller. soupfly i think has summed it up well enough in post 421

Yes, this is exactly what I did... I prevented the cop from investigating me.

So how is this anything BUT pro-town??

you must see yourself that scum wouldn't mind being in your posistion, preventing the cop from investigating them, don't you?

and re OGML, didn't i say in my posting why i thought i voted for him at the time?

[geraintm]

Then, during the night, YvonneSeer was killed. Which seems like a rather strange choice to me. Even knowing that YvonneSeer was the cop, I don't read that in her posts. YvonneSeer didn't read as shinily pro-town, nor as a huge threat to the scum. As far as I can see, there's only one noteworthy thing she did: have a big argument with SensFan about how likely it was that DS was a jester. An argument in which SensFan was unable to convince her. To me, one of the most likely reasons for the kill of Yvonne seems to be that SensFan couldn't convince YvonneSeer to follow his lead.

no way
asuming a group of 3 scum, there should be no way that an argument between one of them and a townie shoul dinfluence the 3 of them to lynch that person
i always thought the rason yvonne got singled out for a night kill was cause she was quiet. much easier to kill a quiet player because you want to leave in the vocal players because they are so much easier to get a mislynch on

[geraintm]

As a miller I have no idea what role other players have.

not true. you

knew

there were no vanilla townies in this game

geraintm suggests that DS could be jester and wants to lynch himself at L-1.

? When did i saw this?
are you refering to my post on Dec 5th where i said

Is anyone else expecting Slayer to start self voting for himself any time soon?

that is not me saying he is a jester who is going to vote for himself when at lynch -1
that was me saying i thought his play was so poor up to that point i fully expected him to do something so bizarre as to vote for himself.
please go back and change your view on my play. have to sue for libel or something otherwise

Petunho - that was a post to dodge the issues if i ever saw one.

[geraintm]

Mostly, it tells me that DS was an idiot that easily attracted scum and town alike, which makes it hard to determine who was scum based on his wagon alone.

agree with this 127%

[geraintm]

To zeek
just wanted to point out in the past you have been very sure about something and turned out wrong
and with the second point, seems a major misread to me. How badly has it affected your decisions since then?

hope the new quick ben turns up soon
the last week has been two sides talking to each other, needs a fresh voice

[geraintm]

Now that QuickBen gets replaced and I'm not gonna have my answers from him, I'm gladly removing my vote to as scummy player as QB was the reasons mentioned in this post and previously -

Unvote, Vote: Skruffs

.

you are using this time of uncertainty to put someone closer to being lynched? rather than wait and see what the replacement says
bad form

As far as I can tell, the only thing that prompted this was that Michel made a post attacking geraintm and OGML agreed with it, so geraintm voted OGML.

when you see someone act oddly, you go back and look at their actions. OGML jumping on me for very poor reasons made me go back and look at his previous actions, and that resulted in the vote

So I still wonder why your vote would be on OGML since there was really no substance to it. I can see why you avoided explaining it when I asked you and you only responded with this:

and re OGML, didn't i say in my posting why i thought i voted for him at the time?

Unlike some players, if i felt i had already explained myself i don't feel the need to rehash the same thoughts over and over again. i thought my post when i voted for him was explanation enough.

However, in a later post he voted for soupfly (before the direct quote above), yet he is still shown as voting for OGML. He never "unvoted" so I dunno if that is why his vote never changed (or if the mod just missed it), but it appears that he hasn't even noticed that the mod didn't count his new vote, so I find that somewhat strange. I always know who I am voting for and I feel like I would notice if the mod had me listed for voting for the wrong player - but geraintm hasn't seemed to notice.

Nope, hadn't noticed. no one else had too. i kinda just assume the mod has my vote right.
it isn't strange. i found it odd you were looking this hard for something to find suspicous about me.

Also I noticed this:



This is despite other people claiming that they didn't get a good read on Yvonne from Day 1. I dunno what this means (if anything) but I figured it was noteworthy enough to point it out.

Why is it noteworthy? you seem to have spent the whole post saying something about me, but i am at a loss to really understand what?

Here is what I have noticed
As far as I can tell
So I still wonder
I feel like I
Also I noticed this

those are all things you said in your post about me, but you don't really say anything about your "feelings" or "thoughts"

and you completely miss the point of the last part you highliughted.
i was trying to point out to you (like i think some other players are trying to do - see OGML's post) that your play and actions to those of us who are not 100% certain you are the miller are not quiet so obvious as you seem to think. proving you are town because 2 people are voting for you doesn't quiet work for the rest of us. i was trying to make a point that you missed thatif a 3rd person voted for you, it doesn't make you even more of a townie to anyone else.

[geraintm]

Lastly: You need to be careful, Zeek. If you accuse more than half of the players in the game (You are up to five now, I think: Lowell, Soupfly, OGML, me, and Quickben), you will most likely find yourself without support when all of those players get tired of your 'throw shit at everything and attack anything it seems to stick to' gameplan.

Hey now, don't leave me off that list.

i want in too! Surely Zeek tried to throw some mud my way yesterday too?
this isn't some sort of No Homers club where you already have one Homer is it??

to the new players
first hi
second, i think you'll find this game quiet easy to catch up on. the last fortnight especially has been a few people going at each other with very little movement. we only have ten players and just had 2 replacements at the same time, so there isn't that much to catch up on

[geraintm]

ting - my reading of zeek is just poor townie play. if he has been playing a mafia role like he has, then it is genius. faking his actions over the course of the game to make it look like miller, then my hat comes off to him.
i see him as overly paranoid townie, seeing something everywhere (and the way he has cast suspiscions on nearly everyone in the game)

with DS day one, he was so easy to lynch. it was practically impossible not to vote for him his actions were that odd.

withsouplfly, your reading of him seems similar to my posting on the 1st feb. have you got that far with your read yet?

oh, and as my vote isnt on soupfly which is where i expected it to be, but have just gone and read the mods post at the start of the game

unvote, vote soupfly

this is just a recast of my vote on the 1st

[geraintm]

Reading TSPN, his early posts you get a vibe that he knows more than anyone else in this game and is trying to direct us. Only scum "know more" at such an early stage so this is a troubling vibe.

nope, also people who know there are no vanilla townies direct too.

2. Your answer is, in my opinion, wrong. Scum benefits more. Just look at ger's post. You have her so convinced you're town. Be pretty sweet if you're scum huh?

I am a bloke

I don't like how ger went, 'so, how did yvonne get picked out?' It reads like a good job scum! Or a good job sk!

a few peoplehave said they didn't like this post. it was actually just a genuine attempt to see why others thought yvonne got picked out. i think i said later that in hindsight it looked like she was being a good cop, staying in the background and got pinged for that. i wasn't trying to congratualte the scum for their kill.
i also see no reason to suspect the existence of a SK by the way

[geraintm]

Q: why is my vote not on soupfly?

I know not of what you speak says the mod!

Fixed.

[geraintm]

Zeek - you realize your reasons for defending michel is simply because he defended you, right?

this has already been brought to his attention. he has his reasons for thinking michael is not scum and has reasons for buddying up to michael which i am sure he will tell you all about
but ting, your latest posts seem to be posing questions and getting other people to answer for you.

[geraintm]

ting, he either clearly thinks that is the case, or zeek is playing at a level too good for me. i'm screwed if i am wrong...

[geraintm]

ninja, to me zeek has been consistent troughout the game (at least to me). i find it hard to get a read off someone who is cting like that
lots of noise, but at least e is shouting from the same hymm sheet every time...

[geraintm]

agree with ting. i am not reading most posts beyond the first paragraph now.

zeek, may i make a suggestion that you restart the game and take as your new starting point that no one else belevies 100% that you are confirmed as you say you are. some of us have different levels of belief in your role. your continued hammering of your proved townieness and all who defy this will be smote from upon high is not working for you.
it might make you look at the game differently if you stop and rethink your posistion if you don't automatically assume the worst (or best) in someone just because they agree or don't agree with your confirmed towniness. you might come up with some new view points on others if you take a fresh look at things.

[geraintm]

My suspicion of Petunho (who - how conveniently is asking to get replaced rather than explain his votes)

please do not cast suspiscions on someone because they wanted ot be replaced. that is awful, awful reasoning.

[geraintm]

he in that post seems to be suggestinghe is busy and going to be away...and you still have him down as faking needing to go to avoid pressure???
really??

[geraintm]

I think a better criteria for worse voter is whoever has been on every wagon. I'll look back when I have the time, but I think it'll be either zeek or soupfly.

i am voting for soupfly for this reason i believe
zeek i think has cast suspicsions on everyone, but soup's voting record was worse when i voted for him over everyone

[geraintm]

this game is frustrating.
there feels like too much meta-gaming at the moment, too many people trying to outguess the scenario rather than anything constructve going on.

I do realise that this post doesn't add anything

[geraintm]

zeek just dones't seem to understand how his posts are being perceived by everyone else.
how many replacements have we had so far?

if there is to be alynch though, i can't see where it is going to come from. none of the people who players have thought to have behaved scummy are anywhere near likely to get voted for, the momentum for a lynching just doesn't exist at all...

at the start of this page, 6 different people are being voted for!
shall we all go and make posts restating why they are voting for who are, so we can each examine if we still think our votes are the best they cn be?

[geraintm]

At my current point in the reread I see either of the three possibilities.

Zeek is a SK.
Zeek and MSH are scum.
MSH is scum setting up Zeek in case he gets lynched.

I'll explain my thoughts in detail once my reread is done because chances are things will change by then.

i must admit, i have not really given any thought to SK in this game. just not something i have thought too much about, wanting to see 2 kills in a night or someone drop dead during teh day before i give it too much thought

i don't buy them both being scum. if zeek has pulled this off, his persona, all day, then my hat goes off to him. i have pretty much beleived his claim all day.
Michael is the much, much dodgier one of the two. it is just infurating that zeek for pretty much the whole of day 2 has refused to listen to anyone else when they have pointed out to him that MSH's actions look fishy to the rest of is

i still feel my vote is teh best
soupfly has not posted in this game since the 23rd Feb
he was poor posting before that.
i had him as suspiscos because of his voting, and he has disappeared for nearly 3 weeks!!!!

how on earth does he not have more heat on him????

[geraintm]

well i'm here. my apologies to QMAN for not posting after the first prod.

i'll do a reread of the last couple of weeks and see if anything new catches my eye.

really, that is the best you can come up with?
the whole zeek/everyone else thing is not interesting me, i don't think it is going anywhere from what i canf ollow from it.
am happy going for soupfly

[geraintm]

My preference is either Skruffs or shaka!!. geraintm, soupfly and ting =) are secondary alternatives, with Zeek's lynch only an option because of the information it would give.

have to ask, what do you hope to get from lynching me? i readily admit i have not been posting in the amounts hat some people here have. the fact that i have had almost no pressure on me the whole of today leads me to wonder how on earth you feel you could get a lynch going on me? the only thing you coudl learn from lynching me is who are the lemmings round here...

[geraintm]

grrr, this game is awful. i can't beleive how much of a free reign lurkers are getting. i feel like zeek is going to get lynched merely because he has posted more.
if this game didnt have zeek, people would have noticed how much some people have lurked and so much more pressure would have been placed on them

i really think zeek is a poor option to lynch. it isn't something i'll go for at all. i'd rather michael than zeek

[geraintm]

i'd rather michael than zeek

Why?

When deadline comes closer, I'll vote zeek. My second choice is soupfly, followed by michel. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, that's the order I'll vote.

why. i think i have been very consistent in not beleiving zeek is scum at all today. i have said that i tend to find the buddying behaviour of michael much mor elikely to be scum than anything zeek has done

grrr, this game is awful. i can't beleive how much of a free reign lurkers are getting. i feel like zeek is going to get lynched merely because he has posted more.
if this game didnt have zeek, people would have noticed how much some people have lurked and so much more pressure would have been placed on them

i really think zeek is a poor option to lynch. it isn't something i'll go for at all. i'd rather michael than zeek

With your vote standing the way it does, a Zeek lynch will happen. And if you change at the last possible moment, noone will be able to respond to the imminent lynch, meaning we'll have less info to work with tomorrow.

Do you think a soupfly lynch is feasible today? If not, please change your vote now. With a deadline looming, you should be voting for who you think should be the lynch today, not for who is the most scummy player. And if you do think soupfly can and should be lynched today, try to get people to agree with you.

no, soupfly i dont think is going to happen. no one has any interet in putting pressure on lurkers in this game, and so close to deadling it aint going to happen.
i've never voted for someone i didnt really think was scum (except when mafia obv but i think zeek is such a poor lynch i'd vote in this case for someone i think is more likely to be scum

[geraintm]

with zeek, i still am convinced his actions are consistent with what i think he is. i apolgize if i end up wrong, but i am just sold on him.
if i were zeek, i would be so pissed off if i knew i was likely to get lynched after all the work i had put into this game.

and reading people's votes, i hate them OGML saying Zeek is probably telling the truth but he is still the best lynch. ting, he just took ages to vote for zeek, dripping the idea into everyone's heads that he thought zeek was scummy, but doing it all over zeek's opinion of qickben to me isn't good enough.

zeek is a lazy, lazy lynch

[geraintm]

i agree, but i don't buy it. that is a possibility, but i have said previous that if that is the case then i take my hat off to him
i just think it is more likely he isn't scum and the mafia are pushin bad reasoning to get him lynched than he is scum and has played his persona all the way through the game with no obvious slip ups.

PS: not here over weekend due to easter bank holidays

[geraintm]

Vote Count 1 for page 32, Day 2

Shaka

!! - 1 (MichaelSableHeart)

Soupfly

- 1 (geraintim)

OhGodMyLife

- 1 (ZeekLTK)

MichelSableHeart

- 2 (soupfly, Skruffs)

ZeekLTK

- 5 (TheSweatPantsNinja, BattleMage, shaka!!, ting =), OhGodMyLife)

Not Voting - 0

6 will lynch.

Deadline: March 31, 11:59 PM
Red denotes the current lynch at deadline.

Back from the weekend.

ting - sometimes you get a read on a player, sometimes it is right,sometimes it is wrong. with zeek, i beleived he was what he said he was fairly quickly, i dont think i said straight away i beleived gim(i might have done it was so long ago) but since then his play has been consistent with what i preceive him and his role. i have said if he turns up scum, then he is a much, much better player than i ever will be, i could never create a character as he has done and kept to it.
everything he has done, especially the flailing around now to me is consistent with a new player investing a lot of time and energy into a game who is just getting very, very frustrated at his impending lynch.

my view on zeek has clouded most of my thoughts on the rest of today. when i see people ubddying up to him, attacking him, i sit there and go why are people doing this to one of the clearest townies i have played with.

i don't like those who are pushing for his lynch at all.

i have just realised how odd it is. i have conistently not licked Michael's play all day because of the way he buddied up to zeek, causing zeek to be convinced of MSH's townieness, yet i am now i think even closer attached to zeek and keeping him around than michael ever was.

anyways, people have asked me why my vote is on soupfly. well, i think he is the best lynch today. i dont think zeek is a good lynch at all. [/b]

[geraintm]

come on guys. zeek is not scum. the charge to lynch him is obviously the easy lynch being encouraged by scum. i'm not saying people on his bandwagon are necessarily scum, but the townies on there need to reconsider this play.

i think this post by skruff says it all.

this is it? you get prodded for not posting and the best you can do when you come back is this??? when was the last time you had an origonal thought in this game??

[geraintm]

hello all
going to get this out of the way now.
am off on holiday next week.
this means that i will not be online from friday UK teatime to a week tuesday after (15th).
sorry if this is going to mess things up.

yeah, and if anyone who wasn't on the lynch gets lynched today then i'll be shocked. you just all work out who it is going to be walking the plank whilst i am away...

[geraintm]

3 mafia is my assumption
am def not voting for anyone soon, probably not till i get back from holiday.
consider at the moment all who voted for zeek on my suspiscion list.

[geraintm]

why is my post scummy?
cause i am disappearing for a while?

and you seem awfully sure there are only 2 scum for placing a vote so quickly

A 12 player game with my 3 man mafia team,

but what the hell was that? "my 3 man mafia team"??

[geraintm]

why is my post scummy?
cause i am disappearing for a while?

No, just a bit odd that you'd mention it immediately as if it was a big deal. Going away isnt scummy, but being apparently defensive about it, is.

no, as i only have today and tommorow before i go, i wanted to make it quiet clear i ws going to everyone. i wasn't being defensive. i quiet clearly said am getting this out of the way now.

yeah, and if anyone who wasn't on the lynch gets lynched today then i'll be shocked. you just all work out who it is going to be walking the plank whilst i am away...

Then you declare that the lynch has to be someone on the wagon yesterday, which seems like a blatant attempt to get a mislynch going. Note also, that this criteria only excludes you and Soupfly.

Then you ask us to decide who to lynch WHILE YOU ARE AWAY!? Do you not care about this game or something?

hmmm, me thinks you are making way too much out of my post. any post where the phrase "walking the plank" is included i don't think can be taken too seriously.
and i still stand by the thought that i fully expect the person who gets lycnched at the end of today will be one of those who was in on the lynch yesterday. i don't see how that is me pushing for a mislynch

[geraintm]

i am dying to see why i am top of shaka's list...
it really, really intrigues (sp?) me why he thinks so.


pity that after today i won't be around to reply...

[geraintm]

hello there
am back from holiday

am surprised so little posting whilst i was gone

write more later

[geraintm]

A couple things about this post.

He claims that he is most suspicious of Zeek. Didn't like his game day 1 and still didn't at that point.

He claims that day 1 moved to fast yet he was part of the lynching party on DS. If he really thought day 1 was moving too fast you think he'd have kept his vote withdrawn. To me that sounds like scum trying to act pro town.

He also talks about the night kill, and is apparently the only one who thought yvonne was playing the cautious cop card day 1. His question about the night kill is what I find to be a very reliable scum tell. Scum often like to brag about their night kill when they get a good hit. I find scum often question the town about the mafias line of thought.

This has been gone over before, Lowell asked about it and i replied ont eh 10th of jan. did you not see my reply to that post?
Skuffs brought it up too

How ever, as soon as myself and thing replaces in and Zeek is starting to feel some heat, geraintm backs off his case.

ting - my reading of zeek is just poor townie play. if he has been playing a mafia role like he has, then it is genius. faking his actions over the course of the game to make it look like miller, then my hat comes off to him.
i see him as overly paranoid townie, seeing something everywhere (and the way he has cast suspiscions on nearly everyone in the game)

If you notice, when he was suspicious of Zeek, he was very cautious about it. Not voting, pushing his suspicious here and there. And as soon as some other people pick up his chase and apply pressure he backs down.

This just seems all too.. cautious scum like to me.

At the moment he's topping my scum list.

yeah, you have me described well, very cautious, not voting.
reason, i was never sure enough to vote and i tend take my time over voting and placing votes.
with my role, i don't have much info to go on. what i do have made me doubt zeek's claim and his reasoning.
but if i am scum, why didnt i vote for zeek? he was very lynchable, i doubt there would havebeen much if a ramification from it.
and if i was scum, it would have been easier to have got him lynched so long ago? rather than sitting on the sidelines and hoping all the silly townsfolk went the wrong way?
and, as you "must" by town, coulnd't i have voted for you at the same time when it was all zeek vs you.

[geraintm]

no, no i don't

[geraintm]

didn't i respond?

[geraintm]

Everyone knew Zeek was as scummy as hell,

disagree with that.

[geraintm]

i still have no real idea who is scum in this game. at least when zeek was around there was plenty of meat to chew, now trying to pick our way through scraps

shaka never followed up his "i'll respond to geraintm" on the 24th, and as shaka was really the only person i have dealt with at all today, i find myself in limbo, nothing to talk about.

[geraintm]

ok, quickly checking in to say that i have seen things have restarted
will reread myself and see what i get from the game now that i know shaka was scum

[geraintm]

if shaka got points fo rnot mentioning people, he woul dbe so far ahead
i don't think he made a post at ting the whole game, nor mage.
maybe one aimed at ohgod too
and i think one aimed at ninja
pretty much the only people he talked to were zeek, michael, skruffs and me.

i was looking to see which players he argued with, trying to distance, and i think the only player he did who is still alive is me...

in my head, Bm looks fine, the push with the first vote yesterday looks good to me
will lookat the rest of you later

[geraintm]

no, not his partner.
would be a complete change of style on his behalf to pick on his scum partner at the start of day 3. every other person who he has gone after, when they get revealed has come up non-scum. woul dhave been a very large change in his methods to have planned day 3 turning on his partner, me.
i hope you beleive me when i say i am not scum, and his attack on me is probably my best defence right now

[geraintm]

If you have a claim, ting, the time is now.

a claim? really, that is what is going to take you to not vote him
so far we have lost doc, cop, miller, SK and one mafia. what other roles are you expecting? please tell me what purpose our post here to ting provides, as his only claim is vanilla townie. when he claims that, what are you going to do?

i think this is a poor post by you, making it look like you don't want to vote ting but having him "force2 you to it

[geraintm]

Not necessarily. I can think of at least 1 more role i can potentially see being in this game. I'm not entirely sure why you consider this an impossibility?

BM

sorry. put it down to inexperience in this type of game. i thought we had pretty much them all.

[geraintm]

i don't think any post taken after an all nighter will count as a real post, rather the babblings of a nutter...

[geraintm]

massclaim - well, everyone knows what i am, don't they?

[geraintm]

unvote, vote thesweatpants nunja

[geraintm]

ting, he had one vote, i've given him a second right?
so both you and him are on 2. i think that is right. so yeah, i did know

[geraintm]

ok, hello
i don't like this deciding marlarky.
i'll reread later.
I can't remember being in an endgame like this before

[geraintm]

BM and ting, no comments from either of you two?

[geraintm]

i think i was kept around for a reason, beause of some of my previous comments about you two. Why do you think you have a good idea what is going on BM?
have to look at voting records next to see where that leads

[geraintm]

it would be you

[geraintm]

i said in a previous post i thought you were fine, i had you as most town
i thought if i was left alive in this game, it would be because scum would think i wouldnt pick them
hence why i think you have left me alive, so i can choose ting

[geraintm]

sorry, been away at meetings the last few days so i kne wi havent had time to properly look in here
will do later on today before the weekend

[geraintm]

It bugs me, because up till now, I've been convinced that Ting is town. But, from your reaction, i cant see you playing a gambit and killing OGML to set Ting up. If you've pulled that off, you're a better player than i thought...

i am not that good a player

ting - you didnt like my vote of disciple. you say i jumped on too easily. but i made a string of posts (my post 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 were all about disciple) i was totally focussed on DS day one. i strongly disagree that i jumped on the wagon.

with my OGML vote, it was apretty slow OMGUS, he voted for me on the 4th jan, i voted for him on the 16th
if i was scum, i wouldn't have been spending my time back in january voting for OGML, i woul dhave been voting for zeek and getting him lynched.

[geraintm]

bank holiday in the UK, so no posting from me till tuesday

[geraintm]

ting - i hope you've worked out that i dont make many attacks on people, just lashing out isnt my style.
having to wait for your thoughts on me, i jumped the gun earlier

[geraintm]

i said to bm
i had made a post earlier in the game where i said i trusted bm
in a 3player end game, i thoguhthe would be a good enough player to use that so i would vote you

[geraintm]

ok, seen your summary of my posts
what do you think of me then?

[geraintm]

cant see anything at the moment

[geraintm]

if you start picking up on anything, then i'll reply, but you've stillgot bm to go through now

[geraintm]

i was waiting for ting to do his read through

[geraintm]

you both very very busy are you?

[geraintm]

sorry mod.
i unlike the other two don't have exams, but i fully understand their problems and i wasn't rushing them
i don't have anything to say till they both are able to fully contribute and post their thoughts, so i have just been waiting till they finish. battle mage should be back soon, an ting has promised a summary
please don't kill the game, i was prepared to wait a reasnable amount of time for them

[geraintm]

if you pick me, please warn me before you do actually vote

[geraintm]

ting - i dont attack, i have said this before
before everyone disappeared, i had said who i found suspicous and had a conversation with BM about it, but it kinda petered out

[geraintm]

no, i am tending towards BM, but me voting at ant stage before now is pointless with so little interaction

[geraintm]

he's been posting in another game

[geraintm]

shit, sorry guys. I keep putting off this game. I wonder why...
Looking at Ting's analysis, i do wonder why i was so sure that Geraintm was town earlier. I find it odd that despite both of you doing rereads and analyses, neither of you appear to be any more certain about the game than i am. I'm not especially favourable towards Geraintm's claim about not committing to a vote- it doesnt seem especially consistent with his play as town in a recent newbie game of mine.

Still reading...

BM

why is it odd we re both unsiure? to me that just means one of you two has played a good game
and you think in that other game BM i was hasty placing my votes? really?
bad, bad metagaming!

[geraintm]

ting, how can you make up your mind and still want to hear from people?
and it isnt obv from your posts in the thread you are certain

[geraintm]

ok, got the first vote
will think now out loud my responses

i am sitting here and have said pretty much that i think BM is the person i would vote for.
so for ting to vote me knowing i would vote BM strikes me as odd

if ting is scum, then i can't see how he would not vote for BM and expect me to vote BM too
If ting is town, then he is voting me because he thinks i am more likely to be scum than BM and my move towards BM was just a scum ploy.

however, as i know i am town and one of you two is scum, ting voting for me to me indicates that he is unlikely to be scum.

therefore

vote battle mage

[geraintm]

oh, so i think this comes down to whether ting sees my post and wants to change his vote to BM before BM votes
or BM hammers now before ting can reevaluate.
or ting is in fact scum and hammers BM

either way, been a close game. just hope my reading of this final vote was right

[geraintm]

am still here
i dont know how to convince you
as i said, my vote was based on trying to work out why you would vote for me coming from the two ends of the spectrum, if you were scum, if you were town
i am 100% convinced you are town now.
you woul dhave hammered to win the game

[geraintm]

am going to go back and see if i can make sense of BM's relationship with known scum, see what there is in the votes, but i think he's been clever and wont have left any tells

[geraintm]

go back and look at his vote for shaka
see if you can work outwhy he voted for him.
it made no sense
his vote on the 3rd april, he FOSed me and then voted shaka

and don't forget his my scum team slip

I strongly disagree. A 12 player game with my 3 man mafia team,

his post on teh 7th may pretty much has BM exluding me as scum

sorry if this makes no sense, but trying to get quick thoughts out there as fast as possible

[geraintm]

and don't forget his my scum team slip

I strongly disagree. A 12 player game with my 3 man mafia team,

Let me get this right. You want to lynch me, on grounds that i let slip about a 3 man-scum team, even though only 1 mafia member is dead so far, and presumably we only have 1 left. You have GOT to be kidding me...

no, it wasnt hte 3 man thing, it was the casual slippage of the word my.
and i dont think that should be theonly reason to vote for me
and am shocked BM you havent voted for me
ting is cleared now. you therefore "know" i am scum
yet you haevnt voted for me
whys that?

BM, you wanted an explanation why i voted for you
i gave it above
i looked at the reasoning of why ting would vote for me
i concluded from that he was not scum
i voted for you
ting then didnt switch his vote and hammer you
therefore proving he isnt scum

i am not trying to decive ting, i am just trying to get him to understand my logic
i am not trying to get the eaiest win here
i am trying to get the right person voted
that is why i didnt vote ting and try and persuade you to vote ting
i have to vote you because i know you are scum

[geraintm]

Bm, i voted you because as i said, i went through and looked at why ting wouldnt vote for you when i had said i was leaning your way. if he was scum, knowing i was leaning one way, then as scum he would have taken the easy option. this wasn't water tight, i said as much in my posts just after my vote

the thing is, i was right
ting didnt switch his vote to you and hammer you, therefore he is town
i've caught you and you know it
my vote for you initially might have been only 95%, but i am 100% sure you re scum now.

[geraintm]

this is a horrible, horrible thing to dump in my lap.

*flips a coin.

*watches coin fall...

ting, so which way did it fall. i am sorry it has come down to this, but we know you are town and it is up to you.

and BM, i am afraid i did get you with working out with logic why ting voted for me
sorry if you are going to be disappointed that your whole game is going to be spoilt by that (an i must say, if after all this time the game has been blown open because tng voted first, then you are unlucky)
i never said my vote was for you being scumm,y it was because of the logic behind ting's vote
though, as i said, i was tending towards you before hand because i thinkyou left me alove because you thought i thought you were town from what i have said in previous days.

[geraintm]

sorry, having been here since day one, this is kinda 7 months i want over
ting, not sure what else i can say
if there was something you wanted to ask me, then go for it

[geraintm]

ting, as i said i have had trouble reading this game. but i tried to work out why i was left in the game and i came down to the idea that i migth have been left alive because a few weeks ago i said things like

in my head, Bm looks fine, the push with the first vote yesterday looks good to me
will lookat the rest of you later

i think BM is a good enough player to think that keeping me alive going into the final showdown, hoping that i would vote you and not him.

[geraintm]

you were so unlucky BM
it really was a half hour window to win and then ting got panicky.

was i right in my guess of why i was left alive then?


and was the pushing of shaka planned then or not?

[geraintm]

sorry ting i wasn't more persuasive. it was pretty hard to prove to you BM was scum when it really was a case of "he's guilty cause i am innocent"
what were your reasons for voting me at the end though?

yeah, and sorry mod for this dragging on for so long

[geraintm]

yeah, BM outplayed us, and should have won

[geraintm]

i feel so sad you all saying "was obv it was X"
i didnt have a clue. but i;'m like that inmost of my games, very slow to place votes

game seemed balanced to me, even with the cop going so quickly