Mini 523 - Game Over!

[Thanatos]

Hello Everyone. This is my first game on Mafia scum, though I've played quite a few games on other places in the past. I'm glad I managed to get into such a small and fresh game so quickly. So, I suppose I should hop right into it with a page by page...Now then, let me see...

1. hmm. It's interesting that I see a weird relationship between Nudude and charter. It's true that moving her vote like that was awkward, but I wonder if he's looking too strongly for evidence. Then again, scum would, likely, want to lie low in the random voting phase, though I suppose the best ones try to take charge. Dark Lady's vote is pretty awkward as well...

2. Eh, kind of an uneventful resolution to the previous pages mini-drama. Deepthought shares my opinion, it seems, though his argument was a little off the mark.. I'm starting to both love and hate Nudude for his somewhat overly poetic language. It amuses me. It also makes me suspect him a little more and a little less, for the same reason. Mainly, it makes him hard to read. which means, A. I could easily misread him, and B. he could be using it as a cover.

"Is it coincidence that your comment comes after I propose we start having a look at lurkers?" Oh, I missed that one.

FOS Deepthought

Gorgon, it should be obvious that scum, more than townies at least, would not want a vote, giving them a free night. It's true that they want votes on townies, but that's mostly a distraction to by time with as well as speed up something that is mostly carried out by the Mafia. Charter's story bugged me..can we get a link to that game to confirm it?

*sigh* long page, that was. I'll continue in the next post.

[Thanatos]

Page 3: Funny and Random arn't mutually exclusive. Nudude backed down, but that's a really odd string to pull. H'emH's comment about Nik's responce to D_L_S's vote (*pause for breath*) was really over the top, I think, since it should have been an obvious joke. Deepthought's vote on well, me, is annoying since it looks to me like he's trying to push a bandwagon on a lurker. Remember, she herself said she couldn't come often, so the lurking itself isn't suspicious. It's the reaction to the lurking. Of course, I know what her role is, so I guess that helps. *shrug*
t
Oh wait, SK didn't have any votes at the time. I thought she did. Nevermind. Still, my point on what's going on here is valid, I think. H'emH's vote, however, seems to be exactly what I thought Deepthoughts vote was.

FOS

Oh, but I thought it was 5 to kill, not seven. That lessens it quite a bit.

Page 4: I am liking DLS's response to her accusation. If she is Mafia, she's not new. Most would panic at least a little.

Well, since it looked like SK never responded, I guess I should try and explain her actions, but I really can't. She most likely did a random vote and then had to leave the game. Hopefully, my own activeness will dissolve your suspicions of her, since she obviously didn't have the time for this game regardless of her role.

Liamcool's post was downright stupid. and Scummy. I mean, why waste your lynch on people just because your annoying. Mini's don't usually get more than 3 votes. Deepthought ignores this fact, which I thought was obvious...

Page 5:Nudude has pushed me further onto Deepthought.

Disciple going along with this plan, without adding to it, makes him look scummy, I think.

All I can say about this page is that it strengthen my feelings about Deepthought. I'll vote for him if he's not in danger of a lynch.

Page 6: And he's Not. I'll put him at L-3, though I would recommend against bringing it any higher than that for now.

Vote:DeepThought

for recommending Modkill, not speaking against Liam's plan to kill off all the lurkers, and obviously irritated reasponce.

Oh, and I also like Infinitive's explanation.

[Thanatos]

Oh, I should sum up my Opinions, Shouldn't I?

Dark_Lady_Shaiann: Seems innocent enough, so long as she doesn't slink back into the corner now that the heat is down. Neither Obvious townie nor FOS'd.

deepthought: I voted for him. Nuff said.

Hang 'em High: Is drawing my other FoS, but I'm not as suspicious as he once was to me. Still, I need to keep my eye on him.

Disciple Slayer: No clear reads, though his last post is disconcerting.

Liamcool: He fits the bill of a Scum Lurker pretty perfectly. He's here, but not often, and his posts don't accomplish much. And trying to get people to kill the Lurkers is odd, to say the least. If the DT bandwagon dies, I'll look at him next.

Lord Nikon: MIA.

Infinitive: I'm getting a good vibe from him.

Nudude: Same for him, but...it's almost too good. It's hard to describe the feeling I get from him, it's almost like...I think he's acting like I would if I was scum. Too in control. Still, he's under the protown list for now.

VampyreLord: Not sure yet.

Gorgon: Leaning to pro-town, but not certain by a long shot.

charter: I still want a link to the game you mentioned early on. If it checks out, I'll probably consider you Pro-Town



So there you go. Now then, introductions are over. Let the dance begin!

[Thanatos]

If you want a trip, read page 3 and then page 5 immediately after. At first half the game was tripping over itself to agree with me, and now half the game wants to lynch me for the same reasons. Does this really not strike you as a teeniest bit odd?

Not at all, actually. I've seen it happen quite a bit, after someone screws up, everyone turns on him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Though your right, we can't vote for you just because we disagree, and your right that 3 is the standard. However, more than just disagreeing with your views on modkills, I find it downright Scummy. Theres more to the vote than that, but don't say I'm voting for you because of a simple difference of opinion.

[Thanatos]

Well, DT, let me ask you a question. What benefit does the town get from a random Modkill. Worse, what do they get by doing all but wasting a lynch as Liam suggested (and you seemed to help incite after he suggested it). We know how it helps Scum. How does it help US?

I don't think there is a reasonable reason (<_<) for you to do that. That is why I voted for you.

[Thanatos]

SK's early behavior was scummy because she put down a third-vote and vanished without explaining herself (and half you came right out and agreed with that), so I'll probably keep my vote put unless her replacement claims a power role. Likewise, I'll reiterate the "replace her or modkill her or something" comment because I'm used to a forum where modkilling for inactivity isn't that uncommon and I don't particularly care

how

the mod gets rid of her, but I'd prefer he gets rid of her.

This isn't that difficult.

I saw this, and didn't ignore it. I just didn't really care.

Isn't it kind of unfair of you the claim that you should be let off the hook on the excuse that you learned to play differently? I suppose it explains your actions, which is why I wouldn't want you voted off right now anyways, but it still doesn't completely clear you...Most than anything, you've still failed to respond to my question. What does it do for the Town?

[Thanatos]

Fine then. It's a difference of opinion. My opinion is that someone you says that is acting in a way that helps the scum.

just so I understand completely, how does it play off of peoples unwillingness to kill off lurkers?

[Thanatos]

DT: hmm..alright then. Nothing i can really say one way or another at the moment.

Infinitive: Actually, I was just thinking that I wanted to hear Nudude's opinion on this.

[Thanatos]

I think we've kind of exhausted this argument. It seems to basically boil down to deepthought saying modkilling or lynching someone for lurking is fine and me saying that opinion is anti-town. At this point we've reached a deadlock so it's best to move on. Since I still find deepthought to be the most suspicious, I'm keeping my vote there. However, I'm not willing to lynch him yet and I think it's time to start poking at some of the less active players to get them to participate more. I'm leaving now and probably won't be able to post until tomorrow.

I disagree. On the chance that DT is actually giulty, I'm willing to bet that new imput from other people will make or break the bandwagon...Besides, I don't see any other strong leads at the moment, to be honest. Except for Liam, but even that I don't consider strong at the moment.

[Thanatos]

LN's vote on the first page? I thought it was obviously a joke vote. No more, no less.

As for the other thing, you're right, it's not really pertinent to the discussion. That said, I take back what I said to this particular situation, as he wasn't arguing for no vote, he was just not voting himself. Not really scumy. Actually, it's a stupid scum move, but thats just WIFOM...

I disagree on moving on from DT on the basis that we've hit a dead end.


Charter: Thanks. Seems to look good enough.

Oh, and on a side note, I hate to ask this, but are you male or female? I ask because your name reminds me of Carter, a girl, so I apply that gender to you, and It's kinda baseless, but confusing for me.

And frankly, DT has been quite irritable lately. Of course, when prodded, I find it difficult to remain completely cool, so this doesn't really mean anything. DS, don't vote him because of an attitude. Vote him for completely different reasons.

[Thanatos]

*sigh* I don't want a lynch like that, DS. What have I been saying? Lets not lynch a guy for his attitude, lets lynch him for being scummy. That said, the evidence does seem to be beginning to pile...

[Thanatos]

unvote

Cool it, kiddos. I don't want a lynch on the first day. I want more time to think. If nothing else, get a roleclaim out of him before you kill. (and frankly, I think it's too soon for that as well)

It's not that Deepthought hasn't done alot to make me suspicious, but this is moving way too fast.

[Thanatos]

unvote

Cool it, kiddos. I don't want a lynch on the first day. I want more time to think. If nothing else, get a roleclaim out of him before you kill. (and frankly, I think it's too soon for that as well)

It's not that Deepthought hasn't done alot to make me suspicious, but this is moving way too fast.

Let me clearify that. The first day I'm playing.

[Thanatos]

If nothing else, get a roleclaim out of him before you kill. (and frankly, I think it's too soon for that as well)

The Scrubs reference flew right over your head, didn't it?

...Oh shit. It did. *forehead slap*

[Thanatos]

Interesting claim..it makes me happy I unvoted. Not because I believe you, but it's sure to spice things up enough to get a clear answer.

[Thanatos]

unvote

Cool it, kiddos. I don't want a lynch on the first day. I want more time to think. If nothing else,

get a roleclaim out of him

before you kill. (and frankly, I think it's too soon for that as well)

It's not that Deepthought hasn't done alot to make me suspicious, but this is moving way too fast.

Actually, I think that is a good idea.

DT, what role are you, exactly? I want you to roleclaim. I think others do too.

Awsome. I wasn't the only one. He just claimed Doc.

[Thanatos]

oh my god...You just Roleclaimed House?

.....Well, my fellow townies, we are throughly boned.

[Thanatos]

unvote

How in the world did we get such a belligerent doc? Hahah, unvote for now.

Don't assume he's telling the truth.

Vote:Deepthought

L-2 is good for now. (yes, I will add and remove my vote as needed to keep it around there)

All I can say is that Doc is one of the best claims a scum can make. I want to see what happens for now.

[Thanatos]

All I can say is that Doc is one of the best claims a scum can make. I want to see what happens for now.

No it isn't. If I were scum fishing for a safe claim I'd pick miller or bulletproof.

If it makes you feel any better, I was considering claiming cop to draw out the real one and fuck with the town but thought better of it.

Oh, sure it is. Millers arn't usually told they are such, and I've never even heard of a bulletproof, but a Doc...well, thems a standby of mafia, arn't they?

Good false claims would be vig, cop, and doc, and maybe some others if I've forgotten. Of those three, Doc is the best. Vig will stop and make people think, but come night, there either is no vig, or you're shot dead. Cop is perfect, unless you're counterclaimed and then its a quick night and the real cop gets a medic...

But claiming Doc...people want to believe it, because a Doctor is thier protection. Even though this is a team game, nobody wants to die. It ends their fun. The fear of losing a doc, maybe even more than a cop, is enough to freeze all but the most hardy of bandwagons. But the best part, even if your counterclaimed, the scum have an easy kill the following night. It's a win/win.

[Thanatos]

Ok...on to other things....

How can you ask for a claim and then not believe the answer? If you don't trust him....don't ask the man questions.

How can you detect lies if you don't ask him questions?

Besides, I hope I havn't given the impression that I do not think he is the Doc. I'm saying I'm not ready to take his word for it. It is quite possible for him to be lying.

[Thanatos]

He's at L-2, first of all.

I wanted to know what his claim is. That does not excuse or condemn him in any way. I didn't even ask him for a role claim, as you should recall.

Either way, he gave it, and I explained to him why it does not clear him. What did I do that was wrong there?

[Thanatos]

alright. I'm calling it quits for the night (and I want to get other peoples input anyways) but just so we're all clear on what I've been saying for the past page..

1. He claimed before I even mentioned him claiming.

2. When I mentioned it, I was not calling for him to do so, but for the people who had him at L-1 to get a claim out of him first, and I didn't think it was a great plan anyways.

3. When he claimed, I never claimed he was a lier.

4. My responce to D_L_S's unvote was that she shouldn't just believe him because he says so. I also claim that Doc is a good Scum claim. DT disagees.

5. I give my reasons, namely the inability of a doc to safely counterclaim and the psychological security a Doc brings.

This is what I have said tonight. I hope that I have not been misunderstood, and that people do not put words into my mouth.

[Thanatos]

Vote Count

deepthought (4)

- Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter,
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1)- Lord Nikon
Disciple Slayer (1) - VampyreLord
Shotgun_Kitten (1) - deepthought
liamcool (1) - Gorgon

Not Voting (4) - Infinitive, Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Disciple Slayer, Hang'em High

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

hm...Well, I have some reasons for this, though not the time to explain them in Detail (mainly they were aligned during the SK issue, DT's response to Liam's horrible plan, and the way Liam voted) I am fairly certain that Liam and DT are scumbuddies.

Therefore, if the cucensous is to let DT live the night, I propose we kill Liam.

[Thanatos]

Ich. Yeah, that was a typo.
First of all, I do not want to rush for the kill. I was proposing him as our second target. I believe in it pretty strongly, (for reasons, which I'll explain below, have only a little do to with what Liam has done thats scummy) maybe even more than DT. Still, I don't want to lynch him without talking it over with him and everyone else. I apologize if I gave that impression. Also, The reason for my thing being like that was because I was in a rush. However, I will now explain my thinking in Detail.

I don't have alot to go on for Liam. And I do not want to rush for the kill, I was proposing him as our second target. However, I believe killing him will shed new light on the issue of DT, as well as stall our attack on him to see how the night plays out.

Liam has done a few things which set off major signals.

It began right here.

Couldn't we just vote the people who aren't posting at all out or something, if it's bugging you all that much?

He was trying to get us to vote off people who aren't active, as opposed to those who arn't town. This is a rediculasly stupid plan, and I was willing to chalk it up to a simple mistake, until...

Why would you need to ask this and not put down a vote yourself?

DT, who SHOULD know better, seems to be inciting him to do so, and supporting his plan, without making too much of it. With DT being the number one scum suspect, I find this highly unusual. If he was town, he should have realized how bad a plan that was. If he was Scum and Liam was town, he should have started a bandwagon. Instead, he gives Liam a little support and walks away. DT continues to defend Liam's post in 102

charter, in 114, voices my other concern, about how, of the three lurkers, 2 couldn't play, meaning that thier silence wasn't role based. Liam has been around, but not doing much.

Liam reneters later on, and does something which (if we, just for the moment, assume DT is scum) is really, really bad for his case. As the DT case begins to take off, he makes a lukewarm suspicion against DT. He doesn't do anything yet, which is odd if he's scum, but he doesn't leave him alone either. He touches DT just enough to make it look like he cares, but easy to bounce back from. It is only near the end where he votes, and even thats just going with it.

Also, as I was reading back, he asked how many scum there were, in what I believe is his first content post. I wonder, now, if he was trying to make himself look less like scum, but then again, that WIFOM...Still, it's a newbie scum thing to do.

Anyways, this is my case against Liam. I think he is scumbuddies with DT. I think that, if we do not wish to risk killing the doctor tonight, a good examination of Liam is a good option, andI believe he is the way to go for today's lynch, not so much because of himself, but I feel that his interactions with DT will make for an interesting D2 discussion, if we know Liam's alignment.

[Thanatos]

Actually, live the night isn't really a typo. It meant, "Live to the night so that we can see what happens"

I meant what I said, it just came out wrong.

[Thanatos]

I kind of agree that DT is a better choice, though his claim does make me stop and think for a bit. Still, since people seem a bit more inclined to let him live for the night than kill him, I thought I'd make a case for Liam as the alternative, and how it pertains to the DT case.

[Thanatos]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6763

Look at post number 7.

Hahaha, Irony.

[Thanatos]

*Sigh* Children, please. Do either of you really think this conversation is useful for catching scum?

[Thanatos]

Why don't the both of you just drop it and move on?

Or, as GlaDOS would say, "I'll use lasers to draw a line across the game and DS can live in one half and DLS in the other. You don't have to like each other or even talk to each other if you don't feel like it."

Then I get to kill you both with a deadly nurotoxin. Fun times. Fun times.

(The killing was a Portal Reference, not a Mafia one, just in case.)

[Thanatos]

..Oh, burn.

How about, instead of insulting her like that, you actually drop it and move on. You seem to believe you're the bigger man. Prove it.

[Thanatos]

I would like to move for this whole hissy fit being stricken from the record.

[Thanatos]

DLS...ARGH.

I give up. Talk to me when we are talking about Catching scum.

[Thanatos]

I would like to move for this whole hissy fit being stricken from the record.

I would like to move that other people participate.

Is the line "I vote assholes first"

a) suspicious
b) unnecessary
c) retarded
d) all of the above

To be fair, that's not what he said. He said, if it came down to two people who he wanted to vote for, one who he liked, one who he didn't, and both were suspicious to him, he'd vote for the one he didn't like. Not a really effective way of divining the truth, but it's to be expected.

[Thanatos]

Or raped in a dark alleyway.

Ok, That was WAY, WAY, WAY out of line.

I call for him to be replaced on grounds of offensive speech. You just don't say stuff like that. You might as well have callled her a N**** as far as I care.

[Thanatos]

Well, I'm glad you realized that. I hope you understand how stupid and pointless this argument was.

[Thanatos]

Damn, I don't want a modkill, but he really pissed me off...

What happens if there is a Modkill. Is it counted as a lynch?

[Thanatos]

Oh, and one more thing: Who's deepthroat? You have said that a few times. I'm wondering if it's on purpose or not.

Deep Throat was the FBI source that leaked information ultimately blowing up into the Watergate scandal, the implication being that I've uncovered DS and his scumbuddies and he's trying to cover his tracks.

If I had to snap the ball right this minute I'd say Infinitive, DS, and liamcool, so

vote Infinitive

Or that your name is made to sound very close to it, maybe.

[Thanatos]

Honestly, I think DLS and DS are both likely to be town. DS's logic was fine, but his reaction was insane. DLS let herself get pulled in, thus making much of what she said rather invalid in proving anything.

[Thanatos]

It's alright, Infinitive. I don't think you meant anything by it. We all have crappy days, and shitstorms happen. We should just move on. Can we maybe pick a target to focus on for a while, to move a way from this?

(for the record, I tried to look and see how you could benefit from faking like that. The only Idea I had is that you're a Godfather and your trying to get checked tonight, which seems unlikely)

[Thanatos]

Gorgon, page 12 didn't have DT any closer to Lynching than L-2. Infinitive's post would still have been L-1

[Thanatos]

hmm...That is a good point...

I want to see Infinitive's response to this.

[Thanatos]

That may be the case, DS, but I'm still leaning towards letting him live till the night and seeing what happens.

Course, even if he does survive I'd probably like to have him killed tommorow anyways, so maybe letting him live tonight is pointless...

[Thanatos]

Just wondering, Thanatos. Why would you want to have him killed tomorrow if we don't lynch him and he survives?

Actually, let me take that back, partially.. I had confused this with a Newbie, which only has three days. However, I just did the math and, assuming we don't have third parties (a big assumption) we have 5 till the game should end. With a third party it's 4 at most. I want him to be dead by second to last day, and I want him dead day 2 or 3 (2 if we have 4 days, 3 if we have 5) if we're still dealing with a full scum party at that time. I believe that his death, more than most others, will give us a good look at the format of this game, scum or not, so he should die before endgame..

Even though they may wish to throw us off, a Doctor is still a delectable target, so they may do it anyways. Either way,if it's honest, his claim hurt the town, because it put the initiave for the night in the Scums court. ( He should have waited if he's honest. Claiming Doc is a bad move no matter what.) In the end, we're in a pickle leting him live, but we can't kill him easily either...

...I have an idea.
We'll have the cop, whoever he is, investigate DT. If he's innocent, the cop can be silent. If he's giulty, The cop can claim.
The only risk is that he's the godfather, in which case, the Doc will have to counterclaim, and then there is basicly the doc getting killed N2, the cop N3, and us having 1-2 days left.
More than that, it'll be difficult to confirm it unless everyone agrees.
To be honest, I believe we'll be able to survive this.
It's a gamble, I know. What do you all think about it?

[Thanatos]

What do you all think about it?

It's bone-headed. Even

if

the mafia ignores the claimed doc n1 (and good luck with that), the cop can't investigate me and not tell anyone because the rest of the town's going to want to lynch me within about an hour. He's just wasted an investigation whether I get nightkilled or not.

The point of it is that we take his silence like it's him saying yes.

He can't say yes because he'll be killed the next night.

He can, however, say no, because that means there is still a doctor out there, thus, until the Doctor dies, he is safe.

If we can all agree to this, we can get an answer without revealing the Cop.

[Thanatos]

Infinitive: can I have your opinion on my rather convoluted plan?

DT: I find your hesitation odd, considering that, if your innocent, this gives you the greatest chance of not being killed by us., while the town itself gets the best security it can in this situation.

[Thanatos]

Nudude: same question. I want all the input I can get.

[Thanatos]

Wow, I really hate this weekend. My PSP is now a fancy, expensive paperweight. I didn't even screw around with the firmware. It's outside of the warranty too; I got it secondhand.

Goddamn it.

Anyway... it seems to me that the proposed strategy regarding DT is thus: Either we lynch him now or lynch him tomorrow. I'm not saying that it's the right thing to do yet, even though I am inclined towards DT over anyone else in the thread (as noted by my rather exasperated previous post). Here are the scenerios I see:

Option 1: We don't lynch Deepthought. In this case, one a couple of things happens: One, he's not scum and the real scum see a claimed doc as being tempting enough to not take any chances (nightkill, which he doesn't seem too worried about, oddly). In this case, we lynched someone else and are down a doc, which is probably (unless we got lucky otherwise) not very good for the long game. Two is that the scum don't take the bait and try to get a fortunate lynch out of us on day two, presenting the town with a classic wine in front of me (<3 Princess Bride) situation where we have little choice other than to lynch him, as he's been scummy in general and survived the night. Three is that he is in fact scum, in which case the solution to possibility two applies, for the same reason.

Option 2: We lynch him. In this case, he's either scum or not, and the Mafia chooses who among us is cutting through the BS best and NK them. On day 2, we're left with some ground-level suspicions on several people for scummy activity, as well as suspicion on myself, Thanatos, and HEH (and POSSIBLY a little Nudude) for spearheading the investigation against Deepthought if he was, in fact, town.

Option 3: We don't lynch Deepthought and then leave him live on day 2; after this point, it is unlikely that he will ever be lynched. If he is actually scum, it will likely lead to a loss for the town. If he's actually a doc, it may prolong the game for a further day if he gets a lucky protect.

I don't really know which option I prefer... I'm not a terribly big fan of option three, if only because the consequences if he's scum are so incredibly high. OTOH, options 1 and 2 are also bad at this point because if he IS doc, despite the scummy read we're getting off him (I dunno, maybe he's played scum in 80% of those games he played on the other site). I'm not sure, but I'm leaning towards action over inaction, especially as I do not yet see a seriously viable alternative (liamcool is an alternative, but it not yet very close to DT on my scumdar).

Someone wanted me to talk about my vote somewhere; sorry, it's midnight after a seriously long day, so I'm not gonna go hunt down. I knew/thought it was L-1 (the post at the top of page 12; I scrolled up, said 5 votes, and I'm just glad nobody voted for him on page 13 or I woulda seriously screwed things up). I said what I said because in both the games I've been in, anyone who puts someone at L-1 on day 1 gets everyone on them like s*** on velcro. Like I said there and said since, I was tired and pissed for several reasons, and didn't think things through as well as I should have before posting.

On a side note, screw high level rangers with Arrows of Slaying at a DC27 Fort or Die. The last combat of my module (D&D adventure) literally ended on the first turn of combat; the guy fired four of those damn arrows into my mounted hobgoblin chargers. The very next person to go Baleful Polymorphed the only remaining person on the field into a small black kitten, which they named Old Wicked (after her god). She even passed the save to retain her mind, but there were two frickin' Fatespinners in the party, and they kept forcing rerolls till she became a kitten in mind and body. Argh.

OOC for a second......DC 27 Arrows of death? How the hell did he get something like those that's BS.....

I've seen crazier shit happen. *cough*binders*cough*

[Thanatos]

The point of it is that we take his silence like it's him saying yes.

He can't say yes because he'll be killed the next night.

He can, however, say no, because that means there is still a doctor out there, thus, until the Doctor dies, he is safe.

If we can all agree to this, we can get an answer without revealing the Cop.

Ahh. That actually makes a lot of sense (I hadn't considered the "there's still a doc" part), but there's still the problem that the mafia's almost certainly going to kill the claimed doc and the cop's investigation is most likely wasted.

(nightkill, which he doesn't seem too worried about, oddly)

There are a couple new SA games firing up that I want to get in on, so I've replaced out of another mini and I'm basically just waiting to be nightkilled.

They could do that anyways. Or they could not, and try to dick with the rest of us by not killing you. If we kill you, they don't have to.

[Thanatos]

EBWOP: If we kill you, they don't have to, after all.

Just wanted to clarify that.

[Thanatos]

They could do that anyways.

And why wouldn't they after you've made it perfectly clear who the cop's going after? Now the doc's dead and the cop doesn't have any n1 results that aren't already confirmed by the cardflip (and my "I told you so, idiots" post).

It doesn't hinge on there being a cop, it hinges on the mafia

ignoring a claimed doc

. There's no reason to hope I get lynched day 2 when they can just as easily off me sooner and not run the risk of losing a kill.

*sigh* I was hoping no one would bring this up, and that the scum would miss it.

Because frankly, if you don't die tonight, and we don't do this plan, you're dead tomorrow or at best, the day after, as far as I'm concerned. This way, the Scum HAVE to kill you tonight, assuming of course, you are scum.

In other words, part of this plan is, if they notice it, forcing the scum to kill you, instead of dicking around with us.

I'll be honest. You're going to die. If your innocent, I'd rather they do it than us.

[Thanatos]

I'll be honest. You're going to die. If your innocent, I'd rather they do it than us.

Exactly. Let me get nightkilled (or lynched tomorrow, if need be) and let the cop use his investigation somewhere more useful to the town.

So you just have your "impressions" of everyone? You're not going on anything but your hunches?

Yep, just like you and every other player. The only difference is that I'm more honest about the fact that my reasoning is all intuition (and may certainly be wrong, there could be two townies and a cop in my list of suspects for all I know). Still, call it whatever you want; it's is more thoughtful than most that's been posted in this thread, and in any case I'm the only one between the two of us that hasn't voted for the doc. I'd say that gives me the right to ignore your "significant contribution to the town" talk.

Argh!

I've already told you, if we don't do it, they might NOT NK you!

By forcing them to kill you (assuming of course, you aren't scum) we prevent them from messing with us.

Frankly, a doc who can't live more than 2 nights, is better off dead for the town night one than his life being used to mess with the town as a whole.

[Thanatos]

Argh!

I've already told you, if we don't do it, they might NOT NK you!

So? I think everyone's working under the presumption that the town's going to gang-rape me on day 2 if I'm still alive, which is perfectly okay because

a) the only benefit the scum could possibly get leaving me alive overnight is the chance to take out the cop night 1 and get me lynched the following day. That's a pretty dumb play by the odds.

b) If the scum pick another target, we may have other power roles that do their thing and completely turn everyone's assumptions on their heads. Roleblockers, vigs, cops of varying sanities (that's one possibility I suggest you all keep in mind for day 2 whether I'm still alive or not), redirectors, watchers, who knows. I may very well be alive and cleared by new evidence when day breaks.

..No benefit? How about if we lynch the doc, we arn't lynching Scum? it's better for the scum if we waste a lynch. Even better on the Doctor. If you ARE innocent, We'd be forcing them to do it themselves.

[Thanatos]

Vote Count

deepthought (5)

- Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (2) - Gorgon, Hang'em High
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1)- Lord Nikon
Disciple Slayer (1) - VampyreLord
Infinitive (1) - deepthought

Not Voting (2) - Infinitive, Dark_Lady_Shaiann,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

..No benefit? How about if we lynch the doc, we arn't lynching Scum? it's better for the scum if we waste a lynch. Even better on the Doctor. If you ARE innocent, We'd be forcing them to do it themselves.

The whole discussion's moot if the town lynches me day 1 - we're talking about what the scum and cop can be expected to do if I'm still alive and what the ramifications would be. You think the cop should investigate me; I don't.

You're trying incredibly hard to be dense.

You're trying really hard to piss me off, I think. I'll just have to not rise to that.

I don't think we're going to kill you tonight.

By not killing you, the scum has two options. (assuming you're town)

1. They kill you, deciding that you're worth the effort because you're a Doc.

2. They let you live, and kill someone else. By doing this, they have the ability to kill someone else, and then you're almost sure to be dead on D2 or 3. By doing this, they draw alot of suspicion off of themselves, take away a lynch from the town, give us the moral defeat of killing off our own doc, and get one more townie killed than they would have if they killed you.

By this plan, we hold a gun to the scums head, telling them "I dare you the mess with us, because we have a way of knowing the truth" We take away their ability to effectively use option two, although they may still try.

In the end, I want to enact this plan for a single reason. From the moment you claimed Doc, anything we do relating to you is a gamble. Killing you, letting you live, killing you tomorrow..We're the playthings of the Scum. You're a smart guy, right? You should know this. Knowledge of the Doc is a dangerous thing in the hands of the scum. By doing this, we are still gambling. But this is the ONLY gamble I can see in which we have control. We force the Scum to act in a way which we can plainly see. This is a controlled Gamble. That is peace of mind which is well worth a single cop investigation.

Frankly, I see only three reasons why you would be against this plan.

1. You legitimately think a Cop investigation is more important, to which I remind you just how easily the scum can dick around with us without this protection, and how dangerous it is to play into their hands.

2. You're just a wuss who doesn't want to die tonight, even if it hurts the town.

3. You're scum, and it hurts you for us to detect you.

[Thanatos]

Don't worry, it's not me.

The mafia DOES get an extra kill, if your town, we'll likely kill you if you survive.

...I don't understand how you don't get this.

They Kill you, N1 ends, we lose our doc, and we can move on, hopefully to scum lynch on D2.

They kill someone else, we kill you D2 for surviving the night, because a scum slipped by while you were distracting the rest of us.

By doing this, they not only get a kill, they get a Power role lynched instead of them on D2.

Killing you = Town Loses power role

Not killing you = Town loses power role D2 (likely) town loses other important person, power role or not, and the scum get away without being lynched D2.

Do the math. They are greatly benefited by NOT killing you, because we're likely to do it anyways. This plan takes away that option from them.

[Thanatos]

Frankly, his reaction to my plan makes me feel more and more like we should just kill him anyways and be done with it...

I hope I don't regret it later, though.

[Thanatos]

But you are right. I hadn't considered the possibility of an Insane Cop. However, I don't think that, in a mini, there would be an insane cop. At the very least, we should have one sane cop.

[Thanatos]

I doubt he can commit on anything involving roles in this game. Technically, we don't even know that there IS a cop. Though in a normal mini, there almost certinally is one.

[Thanatos]

Hey, he responded to a prod. Awsome.

[Thanatos]

Nudude, what's your opinion on what has just transpired between me and DT?

[Thanatos]

Frankly, as much as I hate to admit it, if I could get 2 more people to vote for DT, I would.

[Thanatos]

Okay, first of all ... I don't think it's ever a good idea to direct the choices of the cop. If we decide beforehand who should be investigated, the element of uncertainty is completely eliminated. I get where Thanatos is going with this, but I'm just not sure it's worth it. If DT is town, and the cop is pretty much told to investigate him, the scum will almost certainly kill him tonight. Getting rid of the doc

and

having the cop waste his investigation is way too tempting. Yes, I realise that Thanatos thinks this sacrifice is worth it, but again ... I'm not entirely convinced.

Also, Thanatos ... you had no reason to say you're not the cop. Until the real cop reveals himself (and yes, it's almost guaranteed that there is one in this game, IMO), the town must do everything it can in order to keep the scum in the dark about who it might be. Unless of course you're scum, and therefore don't care about that. There's also the possibility that you just walked into a rolefishing trap set by DT though.

This said, we seem to be in a bit of a standstill regarding DT. He's still at 5 votes, and I'm not sure they're moving anytime soon. It might just be necessary to go ahead and lynch him. I think this will give us a lot of information anyway. If DT is town, it's my belief that his bandwagon is riddled with scum who see this as a perfect opportunity to lynch the doc with firm backing from a few townies, thus hiding among them and making it hard to pick them out. My guess here is therefore 2 - 3 scum on that wagon right now. If DT is scum, however, the people who have been defending him and trying to derail the bandwagon become suspicious, IMO. I realise that I'm probably in this category myself, but what the hey.

Honest assessment ... If the DT bandwagon doesn't move soon, I think lynching him will probably be the only way to move this game forward. There's just too many people who seem to be convinced he should hang, whatever their motives for this are ...

Btw, a few things that interested me:

I don't care for the cop-for-a-scum trade one bit ...

Um, that's pretty much the cop's job description. As soon as the cop has a guilty, he should come forward immediately. You do realise that the scum are in the minority, right?

Anything

that successfully gets one of them lynched is justified. A townie-for-scum trade is always good, no matter what powerrole that townie has. This is the same argument I put forth regarding the possibility of DT's doc claim being fake ... it makes little sense in my eyes to not counterclaim such a fake claim and bag scum. Then again, maybe that's just me ...

Do we want to protect the cop (if any) as much as we can and maximise the time he has to investigate? Have him roleclaim as soon as he finds scum? Or a mix of the two, confirm a few townies, maybe one or two scum, and have him roleclaim?

See above. The cop should come forward as soon as he has a guilty. He can choose to wait a bit and gather additional info over the day, but he should come forward on the day after the night when he gets a guilty. This information is much too valuable to risk taking to the grave.

I don't think we're going to kill you tonight.

Tonight? Slipup?

Yeah, looks like it. I honestly can't say why I made it, so I just have to sit here and hope you all don't take it as a fruedian slip. Although I should point out that, in this context, the we is still town.

Combined with another slipup earlier, I'm guessing I have a weird way of thinking about when the actual lynch occurs in terms of Day/Night...

Anyways, I'm pretty worried about walking into a scum trap. That was the point of the plan, to avoid any traps they've prepared, or will prepare, in regards to DT. So long as you understand the Risk to benefit ratio, and say that it's not worth the risk to waste the Cop's investigation, then there's not much to discuss. I think it is, because if we fall into thier trap, we're in a really bad position. Keep in mind that, if we fail to kill scum by D3, we're in Lylo. ( I think. I'm too tired to check my math right now) which, if we mis lynch today, will be exactly what happens if we walk into thier plan.

To me, the cost is a single cop investigation verses a high potential for a Lylo on D3. If you disagree that it's worth the risk, then I'll drop it.

As for the Anti-claim..I didn't think about the rolefishing idea, so I screwed up. I just answered t and moved on to the rest of the post. Still, don't expect me to be that gullible with an actual roleclaim.

[Thanatos]

There's also the possibility that you just walked into a rolefishing trap set by DT though.

If I were scum, I'd read his plan as "Whoever the cop is (NOT ME), some other player of whom I have no knowledge, should hypothetically (BECAUSE I WON'T) do this instead of me." I probably wouldn't take that kill, assuming Thanatos is town.

Truth be told there are really only two players I have in mind as likely cops.

Um, that's pretty much the cop's job description. As soon as the cop has a guilty, he should come forward immediately.

Not always. Generally you want cops to verify (or narrow) their own sanities with 2+ investigations so you don't get the insane cop coming out and saying "GUYS, I GOT IT, DEEPTHOUGHT IS SCUM" and lose both power roles.

Exactly. If I was the cop, why would I need to present this plan. I could just go ahead and do it.

[Thanatos]

And as I've said before, Liamcool is a fine, fine target if we choose to leave DT alone today.

[Thanatos]

Really, very little has changed since my initial opinions on page six, except that I'm more inclided to think that Disciple Slayer is town, though a jerk.

[Thanatos]

Can I ask who believes DT is the doctor and who doesn't?

...I'm not sure...but...I think if it came down to it, I'd say he's bluffing.

(As I told gorgon, that was a slipup. I meant today, but somewhere in my mind I atatch Dusk to night.

[Thanatos]

Hey guys, just a quick question. Is there any particular rules relating to D0 actions in this format, or does it vary from game to game?

....There is no N0 in this game, unless I'm mistaken.

[Thanatos]

1. It's convincing enough for me....
2.Thanatos is looking too much into what the scum will do at night, methinks. I said in my last post that he could be setting up a quick discussion for night, possibly incase it is deadlined. As I also said, it seemed hidden to me. It'd hardley confuse his scumbuddies IMO, also possibly setting up a quick topic for night (so they don't have to ponder too much).
3. As I

also

said previously, DLS and DS are looking fairly pro-town in my eyes, and Thanatos a bit scummier than DT.

@Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter and Disciple Slayer.

Could you guys all give me a post on why your voting for DT?

@Gorgon, Hang'em High and deepthought.

Same as above but why liamcool?

Thank you.

That's stupid logic. Have you ever played as scum? Unless their really stupid, or night is like 5 minutes long, you're fully capable of discussing this at night. Why would I dare to, as scum, discuss my plans? I'm telling this to the town so that the town knows this is a possibility, and, as I have said, it is dangerous. Call it OMGUS if you want, but

FOS:VL

.

As for the other thing, Because, also as I said, I want him to be at L-2. I don't want him at a hammer position, but I want it to be a threat to him, because I'm not convinced to pull it off yet. If I wasn't, it would be on Liamcool.

Also, the scum/SK might kill him simple because he's the doc. The risk I see is that they will let him live as a decoy, thus being THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY PLAN.

...Actually, given you're last post, you just said (albeit in less words) exactly what I've been saying for the past 5 pages. I guess that means you suspect yourself.

[Thanatos]

Well, DLS, the reason I didn't say anything was because, honestly, it's nothing I hadn't thought of or mentioned before.

[Thanatos]

Liam, I like how you completely and totally ignore any case made against you. The best kind of defense, I always say.

[Thanatos]

Well well well, Liamcool and DT are tied...

To be honest, Infini's post seems really sudden....Can you explained why you jumped on at that proticular moment?

[Thanatos]

hmm...You do make one compelling point. As much as I think DT is scummy and needs to die, Liam hasn't given a good reason for the way he is, and I can't think of one.

...Yet, I still think DT will give us the most information for a day 1 kill. Once we know his alignment, we'll know the way people react with him. It's not a sure thing by any means, but...Liam seems too much of a typical day one scum-acting townie vote...I think DT is the smart move going forward, and I have doubts in the plan we have right now.

[Thanatos]

...You just put him at L-1 you know?

..*thinks*

...Argh, Liam cool, DT, Liamcool, DT...

Yeah. I'm ready to lynch DT. It's a risk, but it needs to be done, I think. If Insurgent was unaware that he put him at L-1, he should unvote now.So should anyone else who disagrees. If not, I recommend someone hammer and we get our data.

[Thanatos]

Sure.

It's not lynching townies, for me.

Both you and Liam could be scum. You're more of a gamble, yes, but you also hit more scummy, so it balances.

In the end, though, I think I'll understand the situation of this game better (basicly, our reactions to you are FAR more interesting than our reactions to Liam) so that made me more confident in you being the correct lynch.

If you are Town, I'm sorry, but I made up my mind, and I'll just have to live with it.

[Thanatos]

...I wasn't bating you. I actually will be sorry if your town.

[Thanatos]

Thanks, DT.

Can someone hammer before I change my mind?

As I said, I don't think you're a townie, and I think letting you live is risky, even if you are. I also think killing you will help the town in the long run. That's all I can say.

[Thanatos]

So, since it's all over, DT...care to tell us in advance what you are?

[Thanatos]

Well fuck.

At least we didn't lose anyone in a power role, but we need to look deeply at the list of suspects now, and not let something like that happen again

I know Liam, myself, and Gorgon need a look at for the DT lynch...anyone else?

[Thanatos]

I'm on the list for an examination over DT. I may not have voted for him in the end, but I was pushing hard all through day 1, and I frequently questioned his roleclaim.

2 nightkills is very bad tho. I think the most likely possibility is Scum & Serial Killer, but there could be some weird bizarro double-mafia kill.

Regardless, if it's one town lynch per day and two whatever kills per night, we have very little leeway. Time for careful consideration, IMHO. If we mislynch again, it could very easily be lynch or lose.

Don't forget that a vig is a possibility too, but..why would he kill either of them?

[Thanatos]

Dangit. Well, it looks as if DT was the sane doc. If we have another doc out there, then, well, don't protect anyone (Unless you think they're scum, hehe).

Insane docs are pretty rare in general, let alone flavorless minis.

[Thanatos]

hmm..I did a short re-read over some things, and noticed that it was insurgent that pushed me over the edge about the the DT lynch. If there was a vig, that might be a reason.

[Thanatos]

hmm..I did a short re-read over some things, and noticed that it was insurgent that pushed me over the edge about the the DT lynch. If there was a vig, that might be a reason.

If there was a vig, a SK

and

mafia (with our doc dead), shouldn't there have been 3 NK's?

Yeah, what Liam said. I just wanted to mention that possibility, since you seemed to forget it.

[Thanatos]

THat's what VL said was a possibility...

[Thanatos]

Oh, sorry. I meant Infinitive.

[Thanatos]

Okay, so DT was actually the doc. Crap.

As I said yesterday, something tells me that the DT wagon was swarming with scum. Mafia and SK alike would definitely had an interest in lynching a doc. It allows them to kill whomever they want with impunity.

Thanatos is setting off a lot of bells right now. The way he admits that yes, he needs to be looked at now that DT was found to be a real doc seems suspicious to me. Weren't you saying yesterday that killing him would help the town in the long run? It seems to me that you admitting that you deserve scrutiny now might be away to alleviate suspicion ... that people are now supposed to think: "Oh, he admits that he did wrong and that he deserves suspicion; he must be town."

The reason I said killing him would give us information in there is because the way people responded to his lynch would give us more information. The people who jumped on it, and the people who pushed it hardest, would look protown or anti town depending on what happened. For the sake of fairness, I included myself. I really, really wish that DT was scum, but if, say, we lynched Liamcool, and he was a townie, I'd say it's likely for us to be in worse position today.

hmm..I did a short re-read over some things, and noticed that it was insurgent that pushed me over the edge about the the DT lynch. If there was a vig, that might be a reason.

How did he "Push you over the edge"? You were voting DT all through the second half of yesterday.

Yes, but look back to when the lynch stopped shortly after he cliamed. I distintly said that I was keeping my vote on him to keep him at L-5. When Insurgent voted, I could have unvoted. His vote made me not. I wasn't using him as an excuse. I was giving a reason why he might have been killed by an SK or vig.

Also, this is all that Insurgent had to say when he voted DT:

At first I thought infinitive had a point when he said deepthought could be a regular townie pretending to be the doc, but now I think deepthought's just scum.

A compelling argument, eh?

This just looks to me like you're pointing the finger at a dead player who's now proved to be protown and using him as a convenient excuse for the mislynch.

Vote: Thanatos

hmm..I did a short re-read over some things, and noticed that it was insurgent that pushed me over the edge about the the DT lynch. If there was a vig, that might be a reason.

If there was a vig, a SK

and

mafia (with our doc dead), shouldn't there have been 3 NK's?

Not necessarily. Anyone who can kill at night can choose not to do so. A vig is particularily likely to skip his kill. It is possible that there is a vig and an SK, and that the SK killed tonight, but the vig did not. However, I think it's likely that Insurgent was killed by a vig rather than an SK, truth to tell. HeH was definitely killed by scum, though. He was much too protown-looking for it to make sense that a vig would have killed him, IMO.

That's what I've been saying. All I had to say about insurgent was that, his death could have been a vig-kill.

quote tags fixed

[Thanatos]

Infinitive: Take this for what it's worth, but in regards to Nudude, I get the same vibe.

This may be considered a WIFOM, so discard it in terms of my personal defense, but...He's kinda playing the way I do as scum. Active, knowledgeable sounding, but never in the front or back of any attack, yet still scum hunting...

[Thanatos]

oh snap. I messed up with the Qoute tags. That was Gorgons vote.

Unvote

[Thanatos]

hmm..I know I screwed up, and that I had a big hand in the DT lynch, but I was only wrong in the DT lynch. That's not a string of coincidences...that's me being fooled by his scummy behavior, just like 6 other people.

Tell me this, while it's obvious my advice hurt us, was it ever unfounded?

[Thanatos]

THe worst thing that can happen in this kind of hole is for us to stop posting. At worst, it ruins the game, and at best, it lets the scum walk over us.

[Thanatos]

Okay, Thanatos, I think it's pretty clear right now that the most troubling factor against you is your suggestion for the use of the cop on night 1. Even on day 1, a chorus of us were arguing against it because it was simply bad tactics, and I think we can say now that it would have been quite bad for the town had the cop agreed to it; DT would have almost certainly been nightkilled and the investigation wasted. Further, if you ARE scum, it would have been a very good way to stall the cop out for a night, and prevent him/her from investigating any scum.

In short, you proposed a plan whose only beneficiary, as far as I can see, would be the scum.

I would greatly appreciate an extended conversation about the thought process that lead up to the formulation of that plan, and why you stuck with it even after several people, myself included, told you why it was a bad idea to plan out the cop's investigation in public.

I'm not saying i think you're scum yet, Than, but you've proposed and spearheaded several things that would have/have benefited the scum.

As for the plan in and of itself, we've already discussed this. I still say it was a solid plan, because, if they had decided to let him live...we'd probably be in this same position tomorrow...Although, if we failed to lynch scum today as well, we would be even worse off.

Ugh, The plan I had was to prevent what has just happened from happening, on top of putting us in Lylo. If you don't think that's worth a cop investigation, then we simply disagree on the worth of a cop investigation, I guess.

In the end, though, my biggest mistake, the only reason all of my plans backfired, was that DT was actually telling the truth. If that had not been the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, correct? I had thought, as did most of us, that DT was scum. Don't turn me into a false messiah so quickly, for simply making that same mistake.

[Thanatos]

I'm not trying to make you into a false messiah Than, but exchange places with me- if you saw me lead a charge like you did that turned out so bad, wouldn't you want a healthy discussion on the matter?

Speaking of which, would someone else please post regarding SOMETHING? I feel all on my lonesome out here.

Sorry. I understand why you're suspicious. I would be too. All I ask is that you don't jump to conclusions.

[Thanatos]

You think I had reason to kill Hang 'em High becuase he Voted on my predecessor, who ended up replaced, becuase she was lurking?

...

FOS

for obviously flawed reasoning.

[Thanatos]

I just gave a PBPA and you FOS me for quoting the words of a dead townie? I think your reasoning is flawed. Here's a vote to pressure you into more information.

Vote: Thanatos

Now watch as DLS rushes to defend him in her next post.

I FOS'd you because you, when looking for people to link to the murder of HeH, pull 2 different (the 3rd came after I had begun posting, and I need to check up to see my reasponce) examples of him pointing to me, both of which are for reasons which have absolutely nothing to do with me whatsoever. Frankly, I think that looks like your trying to build a case on someone whose under scrutiny, built on logic that's obviously faulty, and I FOS'd you to get you to admit that.

Or do you really think those two things would have given me reason to kill HeH?

(I'm not talking about the third because it came after I began posting)

[Thanatos]

Dude, I just went through HeH's game posts. It's his points, just wanted to make sure people read them. Was going to post a PBPA of SK/Insurgent, but there wasn't much to go on from there, since they people they suspected were already suspects of HeH. Your reaction to quoted game posts from a dead vanilla townie (and a good one, at that) before I even said anything of my own about you is noted.

Or do you really think those two things would have given me reason to kill HeH?

I hate WIFOM so much it's not even funny.

That's not WIFOM. WIFOM is basing an arguement on "well, would I have done it if I was scum? No. Well then I obviously can't be scum."

What I was saying was that you were running an analysis of HeH for people he suspected, and pointed me out twice on things which obviously had no merit. I may have overreacted twaord how much I thought you were emphizizing it's importance, but my point remains. All I want, for the moment, is for you to admit that those first two posts say nothing. That was what the FOS was for.

However, you're right on one thing, I haven't looked through the 3rd post. Let me shower and stuff and I'll post something.

[Thanatos]

Ah. The shower calmed me down alot, since I was getting irritated. After cleaning up, I went back to page 10 of this game, and looked up that post by HeH, and found, surprise surprise, that it ended quite amiability. However, before we get into that, I feel that, the way I presented things was unfair, both to myself and DS, so I would like to clarify.

When I came on, I saw you say that you were going to go through a list of suspects in connection the HeH's untimely passing. I admit, I did not go through your posts very carefully, and most likely, I put more emphesis on your own opinions than you had meant. I took your mentioning me twice as your attempt to build a case against me. If this was not the case, I apologize.

Now, I FOSed you while I was on this assumption. Now, from the two posts you had made BEFORE I began writing my reasponce, they were HeH FoSing and Voting SK, based on her Lurking. I, clearly, have never lurked in this game. I read that as you presenting reasons why I would want to kill HeH due to him suspecting me, for reasons which were so obviously flawed, I thought it warrented an FoS. Is that, at least, a good enough explination for that.

As for the third post from HeH, I am rather stricken by the fact that you failed to post the fact that I had a rather long response to HeHs questioning, to which he responded

O.K., I like Thanatos' explanation for the most part. Post 225 was yucky, but I think his follow-up was reasonable. I'm not sure I would go so far as to assert DT and liam are scumbuddies, however. It's certainly possible, but I think the links are fairly weak. Much of his case against liamcool is based on the assumption deepthroat is scum and I'm always wary of suspecting someone because they might be linked to someone who might be scum -- that's too many "mights" for my taste.

In other words, the best evidence you can find for why I might have wanted to kill him (Ignoring, of course, that he was fairly obviously pro-town, which holds true no matter who the scum are) was a post where he questions me, and then finds my response satisfactory? A fact which you ignore in your arguements?

Frankly, I think your pushing something that you know is wrong. I don't know if I'm going to stick to this, but

Vote:DS

For putting up a baseless arguement, ignoring facts that contradict him, and pushing it harder when arguement is put up against it.

[Thanatos]

I admit I over reacted. But I only did it, at first at least, because I misunderstood what it was exactly what you were doing. I thought you were building a case on crap-info.

If we can agree on that premise, I'm content.

[Thanatos]

Vote Count

Thanatos (2) - Gorgon, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (1) - charter
Disciple Slayer (1) - Thanatos

Not Voting (5) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, liamcool, Infinitive, Nudude, VampyreLord

Votes are always reset when the day starts.

[Thanatos]

I admit I over reacted. But I only did it, at first at least, because I misunderstood what it was exactly what you were doing. I thought you were building a case on crap-info.

If we can agree on that premise, I'm content.

I don't build cases on crap info. Vote stays until something substantial comes along.

VL, jeez. You could have spent the time posting your useless remarks on contributing to the town, for once. I'm tempted to vote you simply to pressure you into giving some info.

Biulding a case against me based on

Lurking

? I think that's crap info.

[Thanatos]

I admit I over reacted. But I only did it, at first at least, because I misunderstood what it was exactly what you were doing. I thought you were building a case on crap-info.

If we can agree on that premise, I'm content.

I don't build cases on crap info. Vote stays until something substantial comes along.

VL, jeez. You could have spent the time posting your useless remarks on contributing to the town, for once. I'm tempted to vote you simply to pressure you into giving some info.

Biulding a case against me based on

Lurking

? I think that's crap info.

I merely summarized what HeH said in my list. I've got a commentary below the posts I quoted. Overreacting again? All the more reason to keep my vote on you. Do you OMGUS this late into the game? That's what your vote on me sure looks like.

liam, he means that Infinitive supposedly thought that DT wasn't going to get lynched, so he decided to move on to you to draw suspicion away from himself in the event that you got lynched and turned out to be a townie. This is under the hypothesis that Infinitive is scum and knows you are either a SK or pro-town. Can you post what you think about charter's theory?

Man, you have some posting to do. Get more active.

...*sigh* that's what I said...I'm tired of this, and I'm not walking through this little circular thing you've got going on here.

I believe/believed that DSes comments about me were him saying "HeH suspected Thanatos, because SK lurked." which is stupid. I may have missinterepreted it, I don't know. But, if I read correctly, DLS read it that way, so maybe I didn't...

My Vote on him is because he continues to ignore things brought up against him. Like, for example, how he has yet to comment on the fact that the "good points brought up against me" were dropped within that same page, and because he continues to be unreasponcive. I also wanted to get my vote out there, since there were only 2 or three before it.

I would like 3rd parties to comment now, because I'm not speaking to DS on this issue anymore. It's not getting me or him anywhere.

[Thanatos]

Gorgon:I think the most specific reason I voted for him was because he ignored something that obviously contradicted his theories. Namely, the posts immediately after HeH's third quote, that I linked to.

My overreaction was thinking he was building a case against me based on what he read. Evidently, he wasn't, which was the reason for the initial FoS.

Also, the posts he brought against SK were for lurking. I have obviously not lurked. I really think that, in that case, the actions of a lurker who got replaced don't affect the replacer, as, if she let herself get replaced, she wasn't, at the very least, Scum-lurking. She just couldn't play.

[Thanatos]

Thanatos, I would say you are a more experienced player than S_K. I think everyone can agree on that. One possibility is that S_K lurked when she found out she was scum, because she didn't know what to do. You, on the other hand, were the ringleader of deepthought's mislynch. You immediately took charge when you entered the game on D1. Well, now I'm taking charge before you can start another bandwagon on someone.

Fair enough. I'm only going to say this one more time. I saw your two posts about me and I took them as you saying

"Well, HeH thought SK was a lurker, so he had suspicions of Thanatos, who therefore had a good reason to kill HeH"

That is what I read your first two posts as, and so, I FOSed you.

I voted you for three reasons.

1. I noted how you ignored information related to your third link, and CONTINUE to ignore it now.

2. I wanted to vote for somebody. That's the simple truth. There arn't alot of votes going around at the moment, and I thought I should put mine out.

3. It's a hunch. I think you've been acting rather scummy, and I wanted to let it be known that I thought that way.


That said, I don't think we should lynch you today. I think I would rather kill Liam. Liam's really good and laying low and pushing things forward, and regardless of DTs alignment, I want to start focusing on him soon. You can be dealt with later.

As much as I think DS is shitty in a leader role, and possibly a flase massiah ( or have you all forgotten that he pushed DT as hard as I, if not more so) I would like to hear what DLS has to say, regardless of where it comes from.

[Thanatos]

Ah. The shower calmed me down alot, since I was getting irritated. After cleaning up, I went back to page 10 of this game, and looked up that post by HeH, and found, surprise surprise, that it ended quite amiability. However, before we get into that, I feel that, the way I presented things was unfair, both to myself and DS, so I would like to clarify.

When I came on, I saw you say that you were going to go through a list of suspects in connection the HeH's untimely passing. I admit, I did not go through your posts very carefully, and most likely, I put more emphesis on your own opinions than you had meant. I took your mentioning me twice as your attempt to build a case against me. If this was not the case, I apologize.

Now, I FOSed you while I was on this assumption. Now, from the two posts you had made BEFORE I began writing my reasponce, they were HeH FoSing and Voting SK, based on her Lurking. I, clearly, have never lurked in this game. I read that as you presenting reasons why I would want to kill HeH due to him suspecting me, for reasons which were so obviously flawed, I thought it warrented an FoS. Is that, at least, a good enough explination for that.

As for the third post from HeH, I am rather stricken by the fact that you failed to post the fact that I had a rather long response to HeHs questioning, to which he responded

O.K., I like Thanatos' explanation for the most part. Post 225 was yucky, but I think his follow-up was reasonable. I'm not sure I would go so far as to assert DT and liam are scumbuddies, however. It's certainly possible, but I think the links are fairly weak. Much of his case against liamcool is based on the assumption deepthroat is scum and I'm always wary of suspecting someone because they might be linked to someone who might be scum -- that's too many "mights" for my taste.

In other words, the best evidence you can find for why I might have wanted to kill him (Ignoring, of course, that he was fairly obviously pro-town, which holds true no matter who the scum are) was a post where he questions me, and then finds my response satisfactory? A fact which you ignore in your arguements?

Frankly, I think your pushing something that you know is wrong. I don't know if I'm going to stick to this, but

Vote:DS

For putting up a baseless arguement, ignoring facts that contradict him, and pushing it harder when arguement is put up against it.

1. Qoute it? You mean like I did right here?

2 & 3. Well, that's something we agree on.

Bribe? Don't you think your overstepping yourself just a little? I was giving my opinion to everyone. I think you have a 50/50 chance of being clever scum or stupid town. The chance we take with Liam is better, and I don't think you're a good kill today. If I'm not allowed to make my opinions known without you smirking and pointing going "look, see what he did there" then maybe I'm not being over defensive after all.

[Thanatos]

...Funny how you remembered the first post but not the qoute therin. Very selective memory you have, isn't it?

Before I forget, where did you get the "I didn't read the thread" part? I said that I didn't check everything clearly, but are you telling me you've NEVER misunderstood something someone was doing? I admit that I overestimated the emphasis you put on it, by not clearly reading what you said. as I have for days now. Accusing me of not reading the thread is a bit of an exaggeration.

[Thanatos]

Thank you for your comments, Infinitive. I was wondering how much I had to mention it before someone noticed how he's been ignoring my responce to quote 3 I just want to mention that I voted him for largely the same reasons you FoS'd him. I don't know what I really think of him yet, and I don't intend for my vote to be read as a call for a lynch.

Also, I havn't been paying close attention to the conversation between him and DLS. Could you show me where we discover she's been lying about something?

[Thanatos]

I believe I've done just that about 3 different times by now, Nudude.

[Thanatos]

Vote Count

Thanatos (2) - Gorgon, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (1) - charter
Disciple Slayer (1) - Thanatos
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1) - Nudude

Not Voting (4) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, liamcool, Infinitive, VampyreLord

Also, due to recent evidence:

Vote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

What evidence?

Ditto. What evidence?

[Thanatos]

*sigh* fair enough. I'm just annoyed that I've been doing it a ton for DS and now I need to do it again.

Before I begin, 2 thing. 1. I want nothing from DLS, and have generally been ignoring her through this. If you want my opinion, I think there's too much tension between her and DS to get a clear read. 2. It shouldn't be considered scummy, in and of it self, to go to lengths to defend yourself.

Just try to follow my logic for this, I know it needs you to assume I'm town, but just for the moment: I know I'm town. If the town lynches me, we're in a horrible position and we are likely going to lose. DS could be scum, taking advantage of my vulnerability after the DT lynch.

This is the case for me. I dislike arguing things based on my alignment, but there's nothing else I can use to explain it. For me, at least, attacking me based on the information he has is scummy. I think the same is true for DLS. I defend myself because I think that I can use it to figure out if DS is scum, and get others to agree with me.

Ok, onto what I want. Please, so I know that, unlike DS, you won't write me off, address all the points I make.

1. I hadn't looked through everything DS wrote before I FOSed. I believed he was building a case against me on the three posts he made. This turned out to not be the case. This is where I over rereacted.

2. for the first two posts, I read them as him saying "HeH had suspicions about Thanatos, so Thanatos had a reason to kill him off." when when HeH's posts were about S_K's lurking, which, considering she was replaced because of work taking too much time, is, as I said, CRAPLOGIC. I don't understand why this, my original point in the first place, is a point of contention. However, understand that this was what I read when I FOSed him. If I saw him doing the same thing to you, I would have done the same thing.

3. For his third post, I wonder why everyone except for Infinitive has ignored the fact that I showed how HeH withdrawed any suspicions he had of me within the next five posts. This is the main reason I voted him. I think that, if DS was really looking for scum, as opossed to just looking for someone to Lynch, or at the very least, using bad logic to find a lynch, he would have withdrawn that post after that one, or mentioned it, or at least admitted that it removed the validity of his third quoted post! His ignoring of it is the main reason I voted on him. Also, note how he is STILL contuing to ignore it, after it's been posted twice and the first post was mentioned on page 22, and referanced multiple times thereafter. It makes me think either he's not really reading his reasponces or he simply doesn't care

4. Just for clearification around my vote, I'll repost this [qoute]1. I noted how you ignored information related to your third link, and CONTINUE to ignore it now.

2. I wanted to vote for somebody. That's the simple truth. There arn't alot of votes going around at the moment, and I thought I should put mine out.

3. It's a hunch. I think you've been acting rather scummy, and I wanted to let it be known that I thought that way. [/qoute]

That's why I've been voting him. I think it's a good enough reason. Do you disagree?

[Thanatos]

EBWOP: Here is my forth point

1. I noted how you ignored information related to your third link, and CONTINUE to ignore it now.

2. I wanted to vote for somebody. That's the simple truth. There arn't alot of votes going around at the moment, and I thought I should put mine out.

3. It's a hunch. I think you've been acting rather scummy, and I wanted to let it be known that I thought that way.

Odd. How did I miss that?

[Thanatos]

I'm kinda busy at the moment, but I just wanted to chime in with Signing on DS' sig.

I'd like to note that Nudude also missed my post in regards to the questions he was asking me. If he's putting as much effort as he claims, it's a weird habit, especially when both times are in assisting DS. Just curious, is all...

[Thanatos]

Nudude, I'd like to ask you a question, but before I do so, allow me to offer a touch of commentary.

I find your questioning to be interesting. You've been pushing DLS quite hard over the past couple of pages, provoking some responses that are interesting to me. I haven't bought her defense yet, but, on the other hand, I feel that you're pushing against a person rather than a set of actions. To clarify, it seems to me as if you're putting the screws to DLS more intensely than, in my opinion, her actions would justify. You have noted this, and said that this is simply a playstyle of yours. This leads me to an observation.

Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.

Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.

To be honest, I agree, and was waiting for a good time to bring it up that Liamcool has been just plain quiet.

[Thanatos]

I've been really busy for the past couple of days, and I can't comment too deeply on the situation right now, but I'll say this.

Nudude and Infinitive have made me think about DLS in a light I hadn;t thought before, and suddenly I realized, they were completely right. She has yet to give anything on the Offensive. This is bad. Very bad. It means she has the time, but not the will/desire to hunt scum. This may or may not mean something, but she's on my list now, when before she was not, though that may have been more for DS than herself.

Speaking of which, if, by some chance, DS and DLS are scum buddies, we're royally fucked. Nothings more dangerous than scumbuddies who hate each other. Just something to keep in mind if one of them turns up scum.

Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time for

him

That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,

Unvote, Vote:Liamcool

[Thanatos]

I'm sorry, DLS, but that just hasn't been the case. Each time you've been pursued, you've posted substantially in your own defense, and your desire to not back down helped create the flame war.

Charter is dead on in his analysis of your behavior. You haven't really contributed to much of anything besides your own defense this game. I can see why that would make Nudude suspicious, in large part because I agree with his reasoning (though not as of yet the extent to which he's carried it). Simply put, you've given me no reason to believe that you're town, DLS. I understand that the mathematical odds are that you ARE town, but that's irrelevant to me right now.

As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.

However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let him survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.

How am I very good at making townies look scummy? The DT bandwagon had already begun before I even JOINED the game. I'm just confused.

[Thanatos]

Hmm..There are alot of things really, really off about VLs post. But, sadly, my paper calls to me, so I'll write something on it tommorow afternoon. Count on it.

Just note at ow many things he comments on that are contradicted by things he reads later, like where my vote is now, and what DLS was lying about.

[Thanatos]

Ok, in hindsight, I don't have much to say about VL, except that all he really did was agree with DS and ignore the point behind DLS' "lie" which was nothing, and claim my vote, which had already moved off of DS an OMGUS. It felt, to me at least, like he was less giving his opinion, and more saying "Let's do what DS said." But I digress.

As for Liam, first I'll say that I agree largely with Infinitive's analysis. Mainly in the fact that all Liam did in his first post was say "People who suspect me are scummy, and should be looked at" which is silly, though not scummy in and of it self. Well, let me restate that. It's scummy, but it's stupid scummy. then again, there's no such move as something "too stupid to be scum."

Gorgon has a point, though. Why not just vote him?

[Thanatos]

I voted for Liamcool days ago....wait, what? You just roleclaimed cop...with an Innocent...who had 2 votes.....ARGH! What the fuck is with this game?!

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU ROLECLAIM COP TO CLEAR AN INNOCENT WITH NO DOC?!

[Thanatos]

Yeah...I can't believe a scum would do it like that, so I guess I believe him...unless something big happens,

unvote

God damn it..

[Thanatos]

Yeah, unless he gets counter claimed (and considering that we MAY be at Lylo, you should just do it if you can) I believe, yet am angry about, VLs claim.

*sigh*

...Liam cool could be the Godfather, which means all re really know is nothing...Fuck.

[Thanatos]

Did you forget me, Charter, or do you not think I'm scum?

[Thanatos]

Vote Count

Thanatos (3)

- Gorgon, Disciple Slayer, VampyreLord
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1) - Nudude

Not Voting (5) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Infinitive, liamcool, charter, Thanatos

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

...There's only one problem. In Lylo, there is no reason for the cop to not counterclaim, and I THINK everyone has chimed in.

[Thanatos]

alright then. we wait for them. Then we'll move forward.

[Thanatos]

I react so strongly because you kept ignoring it, but honestly, I stopped caring a while back..

And yes, I scum hunted. Right up till the claim, I was looking at VL and Liam. The claim kind of froze me in my tracks. I'm still thinking about what I want to do...

..As much as I hate to admit it, DS's arguments on DLS's lack of scum-hunting make sense. I'm almost positive that either DS or DLS is scum. There's no way this game makes sense if they aren't. Therefore...

Vote:DLS

Sorry, but he's right. You've yet to do anything non defensive. That's a big scumtell.

[Thanatos]

Being a sheep? I voted for the person I felt was scummy, after examining the info I was given.

I voted for DLS because, since I truely think DS or DLS is scum, I objectively decided that DLS was more likely to be scum than DS. When I feel I have a case on someone, I lead. When I don't, I don't. Is it scummy to not take control when you don't have a case?

[Thanatos]

Wait, I put her at L-1? I didn't notice that at all.

[Thanatos]

Well, I can give four reasons as to why I've pulled back.

1. School has picked up as we go to intersession in less than a month.

2. I've been humbled by the bad DT lynch, and frankly, I'm scared of fucking up again.

3. Durring most of D1, I was in 1 game. Now I'm in 4. It's difficult to do that and lead in all of them.

4. I havn't been in such a situation where I feel I can take control. With DS controlling most of the discussion, I can only push back so much. I do what I feel is right. That's why I pressured DS, and why I'm voting DLS.

[Thanatos]

However, upon thinking about it further, I've decided a PBPA would be handy in this situation, on DLS. So, in a day or two, I'll go through and look for all her posts.

[Thanatos]

Argh. School is kinda crazy. I should get it up tonight.

[Thanatos]

Ok, time for part one of my PBPA on DLS. lets seem what I get, and how far I get into it. This will be a summary of EVERY post she makes, and any mention of her by others of significance.

Post 19: random vote on Nikon, confirmed townie.

Post 23: Lord Nikon does his weird response to her, somewhere between OMGUS and semi-random.

Post 39: HeH makes one of the first significant posts of this game, commenting on DLS making a fourth vote on Page one. I'll keep that in mind, since he DID die. Infinitive defended her.

Post 49: She unvotes. Fair enough...

Post 50: Nudude keeps his FOS on for really BS logic. I remember him being called on it, and him backing down, but I still think that was a bad move by Nudude early on.

Post 51/52: she defends herself, and he backs down.

to be continued...Right now, I've noted how, even from the start, she's yet to do anything that's not defensive, though there was also alot of bad arguments about her, and some people defending her.

[Thanatos]

As I beleive I said, school is insane at the moment. I'm doing the best I can.

[Thanatos]

Ok, time for part one of my PBPA on DLS. lets seem what I get, and how far I get into it. This will be a summary of EVERY post she makes, and any mention of her by others of significance.

Post 19: random vote on Nikon, confirmed townie.

Post 23: Lord Nikon does his weird response to her, somewhere between OMGUS and semi-random.

Post 39: HeH makes one of the first significant posts of this game, commenting on DLS making a fourth vote on Page one. I'll keep that in mind, since he DID die. Infinitive defended her.

Post 49: She unvotes. Fair enough...

Post 50: Nudude keeps his FOS on for really BS logic. I remember him being called on it, and him backing down, but I still think that was a bad move by Nudude early on.

Post 51/52: she defends herself, and he backs down.

to be continued...Right now, I've noted how, even from the start, she's yet to do anything that's not defensive, though there was also alot of bad arguments about her, and some people defending her.

Post 55 is continuing discussion of her Random vote, though I wonder now..She said she had a random reason, but she delayed because she didn't notice Lord Nikon...but what did Lord Nikon have that drew "not being dark like her"as a reason. wouldn't that apply to anyone. This is kinda out dated, but I find it odd..

post 64: VL points to a possible Charter, DLS, Infinitive link. Kinda interesting, ecessially since, unless A. We don't have a cop by some fluke, or B. Our cop is a TOTAL idiot who doesn't realize the importance of lynching scum right now.. VL is most likely town. HeH and infinitive argue against VL.

76: DLS gives an "I'm new" response, and it seems to go well. Nudude is a noted standout in his opinion, being "reserved" in his opinion on her.

Post 95: She defends S_K, and I suppose by extension, myself. I've stated my opinion on the connection between S_K and myself, and I don't think this is really the time to go into it further.

Page 100: HeH, confirmed townie, accuses DLS of redirecting attacks on S_K to LN, another confirmed townie; and again comments on a link.

Post 101: she gives a snippy response to HeH, which DT (sadly, confirmed townie) called scummy.

(also, I just pinpointed the begining of the DT lynch. it was NUDUDE, shortly after this. I'm making a note of that here, because it's one of the most important points in this game)

Post 117: Infinitive mentions that DLS vanished after the heat died down.

120: She throws in her tentitive hat agaisnt DT, but doesn't vote or official FOS. She does question HeH though...about her own post. This bugs me. Why, when a case is starting to build, is she still defensive?

125: She attacks DT! Sorta. She questions him on his goddamn smilie conversation. But that's most like trying to work out what he said.

135: A handsome Stranger joins the game. Press considers it the beginning of a new golden age! *shot* Bust seriously, looking back at what I thought about certain people...It's given me a few ideas.

Page 168: She launches the first attack against DS...I may skip this part.

Post :173: she laments her inability to watch scrubs, missing, along with the rest of us, DTs rather unsubtle roleclaim.

184: DT Roleclaims House. We were, in fact, as thoroughly boned as I said.

Post 190: is when the shitstorm began..though looking back, DLS' first shot didn't make much sense.

I'll cut it off there, and continue later.

Here is what I noticed...DLS is consistant, but she's not entirely in the shadows...one thing I noticed was that she said that she scanned the first page for mentions of her name. That leads me to believe she's a very defensive player, perhaps simply because it is her nature. Feel free to discuss this as it continues on. I'm only a 3rd done.

[Thanatos]

Charter brings up a very good point, and the exact thing I was going to bring up, actually.

Mod, are we allowed to vote No Vote in this game or not?

Not being allowed to Vote for No Lynch is an unusual rule, and is almost always noted in the begining.

However, it's VERY rarely a good choice, and practically only in large games.

You do have a point though. As I noted, it does somewhat come off as her being reactive and defensive than simply being scum...but I'll need to dig further.

[Thanatos]

Also, if the second kill is a serial killer or a vig, he/she might not kill since both would lose when the Mafia wins.

[Thanatos]

Charter: If we lynch correctly today, it's not Lylo, right? I was saying that if we misslynched tonight, and the Sk/vig hits town, we all lose, including him or her. If we hit today, or don't kill, then we will most likely get a second night kill.

Gorgon, DLS calling for the possibility of a no lynch is evidence for her being connected to me? Isn't that stretching it a bit?

When did Charter vote for me, again?

[Thanatos]

Nudude: I Think of all the things you can say about me, not scum hunting enough is not one of them. Besides DT, I've pushed hard against DS, and am the ONLY person actually examining DLS in an unbiased Isolation, and inviting people to talk about her. Right now, I AM leading the DLS wagon. Maybe not by pushing her, but actually looking at her posts.

[Thanatos]

Liam could be a Godfather, yes, but unless our real cop is a total retard, which VL couldn't count on, I need to believe he is what he is.

In any regard, he sure as hell isn't the kill for today.

[Thanatos]

Everyone I pushed for? DT, yes, but EVERYONE was looking into Liam? Why am I to blame just because he got an innocent reading, which may be a false negative for all we know.

What irks me is saying that I support bad plans, simply because the DT lynch, which had tons of support, fell through.

[Thanatos]

Everyone I pushed for? DT, yes, but EVERYONE was looking into Liam? Why am I to blame just because he got an innocent reading, which may be a false negative for all we know.

What irks me is saying that I support bad plans, simply because the DT lynch, which had tons of support, fell through.

Which is also compounded by other people (wait, am I mistaken, or was it Infinitive who said this) asking why I'm not leading as much today.

[Thanatos]

Which is also compounded by other people (wait, am I mistaken, or was it Infinitive who said this) asking why I'm not leading as much today.

It was me who said that. At the time I was pointing out discrepancies in what you'd done. You answered that question to my satisfaction. It's the other stuff that bugs me.

hmm...I'll leave whether or not your contradicting yourself up to third parties to decide.

[Thanatos]

Thanatos, if I remember correctly, it was DS who started the DLS investigation, well to be more specific he was investigating you and DLS.

On the flip - side, if it was who you somehow started the investigation on DLS, DS was very quick to take your side, despite you being suspect #1 on his list.

DS puts out some bait regarding a link between you (Thanatos) and DLS. DLS becomes very defensive, and DS starts building a case on DLS's over - defensiveness.

I also investigate DLS, and bring attention to the fact she has done very little scum hunting.

Then you say this:

I react so strongly because you kept ignoring it, but honestly, I stopped caring a while back..

And yes, I scum hunted. Right up till the claim, I was looking at VL and Liam. The claim kind of froze me in my tracks. I'm still thinking about what I want to do...

..As much as I hate to admit it,

DS's arguments on DLS's lack of scum-hunting make sense. I'm almost positive that either DS or DLS is scum.

There's no way this game makes sense if they aren't. Therefore...

Vote:DLS

Sorry, but he's right. You've yet to do anything non defensive. That's a big scumtell.

Underlined for emphasis. You give DS the credit for pointing out DLS's lack of scum hunting.

Here's where things get interesting.

You made this post earlier:

I've been really busy for the past couple of days, and I can't comment too deeply on the situation right now, but I'll say this.

Nudude and Infinitive have made me think about DLS in a light I hadn;t thought before, and suddenly I realized, they were completely right. She has yet to give anything on the Offensive.

This is bad. Very bad. It means she has the time, but not the will/desire to hunt scum. This may or may not mean something, but she's on my list now, when before she was not, though that may have been more for DS than herself.

Speaking of which, if, by some chance, DS and DLS are scum buddies, we're royally fucked. Nothings more dangerous than scumbuddies who hate each other. Just something to keep in mind if one of them turns up scum.

Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time for

him

That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,

Unvote, Vote:Liamcool

Underlined for emphasis.

It was me and Infinitive that were making the case on DLS's lack of scum hunting, and you knew that. DS simply re - iterated what we said, but later on you give him the credit, and even use it as an excuse to side with DS against DLS. Why?

Because it gives you the perfect excuse to side with DS against DLS. You needed a good reason to take your vote off DS and put it on DLS, as it would look suspicious just going from DS, someone you suspected strongly enough to vote for, also bearing in mind that you made it quite clear what you though about his "Theories". You take your vote off him and put it on DLS, even though you disagreed with his early "Theories" of DLS.

You idea was that if someone challenged your change of mind, you could say "He's brought up some good points" when in actual fact he didn't.

VOTE: Thanatos

I never said I started the Case on DLS. I said that I was leading it at the moment. With DS quiet, and no body else doing anything, I am the ONLY ONE doing an unbiased and real alayisis of her scummy behavior.

Don't put words in my mouth. I know DS started the case.

[Thanatos]

And why I gave him the credit? Sorry I don't have a long memory, but DS was the one arguing with me at the time, he was pushing the DS case hard at the time, and he was the one on my Mind at the time. Thats should be obvious from the situation. DS was the symbol, for DLS' case.

You're grasping at straws here, and I don't like it. I am going to hope everyone here sees how horribly flawed that post was.

[Thanatos]

I said this about you earlier. In it I pointed out that you had started very few investigations of your own

Thanatos:

If you have a read over the thread, Thanatos has actually spear - headed very few investigations, and in actual fact only really jumped on bandwagons with his votes.

The only time he placed the first vote was early today when he voted DS. It feels like to me you and DS had a chat in the night and decided you two would point fingers at each other early D2 to distance each other.

You replied with this:

Nudude: I Think of all the things you can say about me, not scum hunting enough is not one of them. Besides DT, I've pushed hard against DS, and am the ONLY person actually examining DLS in an unbiased Isolation, and inviting people to talk about her.

Right now, I AM leading the DLS wagon. Maybe not by pushing her, but actually looking at her posts.

My point is that there seems to be this impression that your leading investigations, an impression your fostering, when the fact is you aren't, really. I think it's a stretch to say that you've spear headed or initiated any investigations. I wouldn't say your spear-heading DLS's investigation, as much as providing a running commentary.

What you've been doing is a form of visible lurking. It's where you don't actually give any new information, all you do is watch what happens and then provide a summary on what's already been said. It's worth nothing during my absence conversation dried up, to the point where the mod nearly imposed a deadline. I encouraged people to do some more investigations.

Your response? A PBP, with a summary that composed of things that have already been said. Instead of looking through the thread an trying to figure out for yourself who the scum may be, you simply commented on the bandwagon.

In itself, it's a perfectly reasonable play. The issue I have is that you are falsely presenting yourself as someone "Leading the charge" so to speak, when it simply isn't true.

By playing this passive role, it's very easy to look townie without actually helping the town. If your clever, you can even claim that your spear - heading lots of investigations, doing your part for the town.

DS may have started the case, but at the moments, that's all he's done. I am taking DLS and looking at her on my own, because I agree with alot of DS' points about her, as well as Infinitive's and yours. It is true that I did not start the case, but at the moment, I am the only one really doing anything about it. (while to be more accurate, I was, and come thursday, I will be again.)

Have I presented my self as doing more than anyone else? I am leading the DLS wagon at the moment, by doing to one thing no one else is. Investigating her. And not just summarizing it. I am looking at everything she has ever said, anything anyone has ever said about her, and drawing conclusions. That's what investigating is. I don't simply follow along with other peoples plans saying, "I agree with this." I've fought with others, ran my own analysis of people, and scum hunted.

Frankly I think calling me passive is just BS. I've made mistakes, but that's not one of them.

[Thanatos]

It's next on my list, as soon as school gets out.

[Thanatos]

I would encourage people to re - read pages 22 and 23, and bear in mind DS originally targeted Thanatos in those pages, and Thanatos strongly disagreed with DS's logic. DS then targets DLS based on some "Bait" he throws out, and in the space of a few pages Thanatos "Forgets" that:

a) He refered to DS's theories as "Craplogic".
b) How hard DS grilled him and DLS based on that same logic.
c) That he acknowledged that it was me that brought up DLS's lack of contribution.

He would have to forget all those things to suddenly agree with DS.

I just don't buy it. Your too smart a guy to forget what happened a few pages ago.

Also, in regards to your scum hunting, I propose this. If you feel you are the only one investigating her, quote us a post where you gave us a new piece of information to consider in regards to the DLS investigation.

When did I ever mention DS' case on DLS. Show it to me. Durring that fight, I was making a point on NOT commenting on his thing on DLS, focusing my attentions on DS' attack on me.

1) look at what I was actually calling Craplogic. It was something VERY specific to what he was saying about me.

2) I didn't forget that. Hell, how hard he was grilling me is the reason why I DID forget 3, that it was you who started the case. Hell, you just answered your own question there.



And as for your challange, no one has made a note of it, but look at my last line at my PBPA. I pointed out DLS's comment on page three: she scans for her name, and doesn't pay too much attention otherwise.

Now, think about it, for a sec. DLS' case is based off of what? Her defensive posting, lack of scum hunting, and active lurking. Yet, she explains this, LONG before it becomes an issue; she's simply that kind of player. DLS has been a member of MS for half a year. A decent bit of time, sure, but does she really come off as someone who, way ahead of time, is going to leave something like that there, something that as we see, was quickly forgotten, to defend herself.

I'm not saying it means anything, but the fact is, it's something noteworthy for her case, and not a soul noticed it.

I'm 200 posts into a 700 post game. I'm looking at her more than anyone else at the moment, and I'm not trying to incriminate her, or free her. I'm simply looking at her.

And yes, my vote is still on her, and it will remain there until I finish my PBPA or something happens to make me take it off.

[Thanatos]

Shut up, Zombie.

[Thanatos]

Everyone,

People need to make more posts and do more investigations!

DLS has yet to do any scum - hunting, and all you guys are doing is hrming and haring. Investigate, posts some thoughts!

Thanatos hasn't been able to quote a single post where he provided some new information to the DLS investigation, but claims he's been leading said investigation. Interesting? YES! Investigate!

Nudude has been fairly aggresive in his investigations, is he a townie looking to generate some discussion in an otherwise stale thread? Or scum looking to sow dissention in the ranks? Better look into it and post some thoughts!

Deepthough has risen from the dead and demanded blood! You don't see that everyday! Surely this is a sign.

How many times do I have to prod you guys into action! Stop sitting back and waiting for some magical evidence proving someone is scum to fall into your lap. Go look for it, and if you can't find it, question people on the hunches you have!

DO SOMETHING!

What the fuck are you talking about. I posted where I got new information, overlooked by everyone else. Now you're just ignoring it for the hell of it, and I don't like it one bit.

[Thanatos]

And considering the fact that I'm in 4 games and I'm smack in the middle of finals week, I've been damn active.

DT: Don't take it personally, but you can't post like this. Dead people need to remain silent. That's just how it goes.

[Thanatos]

Ok, infinitive, you just put me at L-1. I need some time to work this out. I do NOT want to have to claim today. If I need to, I will, but please unvote.

Look at Nudude's argument. Ask yourself, is this really logical?

[Thanatos]

And besides, I've been telling you for days I need till thursday for work school work to end so I can post my PBPA. Are you REALLY in such a rush as to get rid of, regardless of my alignment, useful information?

You do not want it to end this way. I sure as hell don't, and if it does, the town will almost certinally lose.

[Thanatos]

*sigh* thank you Nudude. That was unexpected on both your parts.

Argh. I don't like what's just transpired one bit. It feels like every time I think I understand the situation, something odd happens.

[Thanatos]

Okay. Well, given the length of day 2, I'm gonna throw my vote out.

Vote: Thanatos

I think he and DLS are about even in terms of likeliness to be scum. Given that, he's the one that has, in the past, shown a demonstrable ability to screw us around. If he's town, he's town. The investigation has really gone nowhere, and at this point we're basically doing "uh-huh/nuh-uh" back and forth. If nothing else, I'd like to move forward.

It's a game. If I lose, I lose.

Uhhhhhh, what? The term "throw my vote" and the overall "I don't really care if we win or lose" attitude of this post doesn't really spark me as townie, it sparks more to the scum/really lazy side. If you don't care how the game is going or if we loose, don't throw your vote, get replaced......or lynched.

vote: Infinitive

Convienant timing for your first post in days.

I'm not ready to vote yet. I want to hear Infitives side of the story before I start throwing stones.

[Thanatos]

Okay. Well, given the length of day 2, I'm gonna throw my vote out.

Vote: Thanatos

I think he and DLS are about even in terms of likeliness to be scum. Given that, he's the one that has, in the past, shown a demonstrable ability to screw us around. If he's town, he's town. The investigation has really gone nowhere, and at this point we're basically doing "uh-huh/nuh-uh" back and forth. If nothing else, I'd like to move forward.

It's a game. If I lose, I lose.

Uhhhhhh, what? The term "throw my vote" and the overall "I don't really care if we win or lose" attitude of this post doesn't really spark me as townie, it sparks more to the scum/really lazy side. If you don't care how the game is going or if we loose, don't throw your vote, get replaced......or lynched.

vote: Infinitive

Convienant timing for your first post in days.

I'm not ready to vote yet. I want to hear Infitives side of the story before I start throwing stones.

Ummm....days?

I posted like a few hours ago.

Huh? Oh...I'm so sorry. You're right. I missed it.

[Thanatos]

Okay. Well, given the length of day 2, I'm gonna throw my vote out.

Vote: Thanatos

I think he and DLS are about even in terms of likeliness to be scum. Given that, he's the one that has, in the past, shown a demonstrable ability to screw us around. If he's town, he's town. The investigation has really gone nowhere, and at this point we're basically doing "uh-huh/nuh-uh" back and forth. If nothing else, I'd like to move forward.

It's a game. If I lose, I lose.

BTW, infinitive, this is really starting to piss me off. Why do you keep saying I "have the ability to screw the town around." You keep saying it, and keep citing the DT lynch, but when exactly have I screwed the town around? I keep explaining the DT lynch, and you keep ignoring it.

Remember, if I'm scum, I have the ability to screw you around. It also means that, I as a townie, can lead you to something useful, far more than DLS has shown herself to be capable of.

[Thanatos]

Okay. Well, given the length of day 2, I'm gonna throw my vote out.

Vote: Thanatos

I think he and DLS are about even in terms of likeliness to be scum. Given that, he's the one that has, in the past, shown a demonstrable ability to screw us around. If he's town, he's town. The investigation has really gone nowhere, and at this point we're basically doing "uh-huh/nuh-uh" back and forth. If nothing else, I'd like to move forward.

It's a game. If I lose, I lose.

Uhhhhhh, what? The term "throw my vote" and the overall "I don't really care if we win or lose" attitude of this post doesn't really spark me as townie, it sparks more to the scum/really lazy side. If you don't care how the game is going or if we loose, don't throw your vote, get replaced......or lynched.

vote: Infinitive

Convienant timing for your first post in days.

I'm not ready to vote yet. I want to hear Infitives side of the story before I start throwing stones.

Ummm....days?

I posted like a few hours ago.

Huh? Oh...I'm so sorry. You're right. I missed it.

Thanks...and regardless, what do you think of the post itself?

To be honest...I don't think you're very good town. That post, as interesting as it may be, was one of your only posts in a while, and it only comes up to defend yourself...Town needs to be an offensive unit. You're a weak spot in our Phalanx, no question.

However, that said, your so fucking consistant about it, I find myself leaning away from lynching you today. That post makes me lean even more to it, because you don't try to hide away from it.

Oh, and I mentioned most of this in my post that Nudude is ignoring.

Speaking of which, Nudude, why did you wait to vote Infinitive?

[Thanatos]

So....me voting Infinitive is defensive of myself......how?

It's not, but that's one post out of dozens, in a game that's been going on for months. Besides, you didn't say anything of real about him, besides the obvious scumminess of his reasons for voting me.

[Thanatos]

That post is refering to your long post that you reffered to when you said you only posted a few hours ago. The one with a brick of text reiterating what you said durring the flamewar.

[Thanatos]

Ah, alright. Well, as for the other post, there was nothing noteworthy to me, I agree, and if not for my fears of a rehash of the heck I got for the DS OMGUS FoS, and Infintive's built up townieness, I'd have voted him too.

[Thanatos]

Oh, trust me, I noticed it. It's just that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt before I call for a hanging. He better have a damned good response to stop me from voting him.

[Thanatos]

Sigh. Sorry for the L-1- last votecount I saw had you at 2, Than. I still think that, given the situation, you're the best choice.

And again, I'm sorry that I haven't been as available lately, but I'm still trying to chase down a solution for my car situation. Moreover, I'm only going to be less available as time goes on for the next couple of weeks, between the car and X-mas.

OTOH, I now know a guy that works the wholesale car auctions, so I'm hopeful that he can find me something at a great price.

So, give us an actual reason why you put Thanatos at L-1 and I might consider unvoting you.

And make it one Besides "he lead us to vote DT."

[Thanatos]

As I mentioned in my last post, I thought I was putting him at L-2, not L-1. Please, read the explanations I've given before you ask for one.

As for why I voted at all? I thought I was pretty clear. I think that DLS and Thanatos are each about equally likely to be scummy (based on DLS' defense game and the long list of observations I've previously made about Thanatos). Given that, I think that the consequences of Thanatos being scum are greater than the consequences of DLS being scum. To put it more simply, in a bet with even odds, it is best to choose the path that leads to the best outcome if you're right, as laid against the consequences if you're wrong. If Than is sum and we lynch him, the benefit is obvious. If he is not scum and we lynch him, we lose someone who several people deem suspicious, and whose opinions are considered questionable at best. The cop is almost certainly going to die tonight, and as such it will be impossible to verify Thanatos' alignment if we do not lynch him. If he is scum and we do not lynch him, Thanatos has shown that he is a clever guy, and can manipulate discussions and arguments in a variety of ways. It he's not scum and he lives, we simply have another townie running around who several people are suspicious of.

DLS, OTOH, is an easier equation. If she's scum and we let her live, we know she'll continue to do what she has been doing: mostly nothing. If she's town and we let her live, she'll... continue to do little. If she's scum and we lynch, yay. If she's not scum and we lynch, admittedly, there's little loss.

Basically, in three of four categories, Than and DLS score the same to me- if they live, they won't be much help to the town anymore, regardless of their alignment, either because of their playstyle of because of suspicion re: their motives. If we lynch DLS, no matter her alignment, not much is going to change, because there are almost certainly more scum out there. If we lynch Than and he's town, we've lost someone who DOES investigate and we now have a wealth of information we know to be genuine from his passing. If we lynch Than and he's scum, we've eliminated someone who's a pretty good player.

Simply put, IMHO, the town stands to gain more from a Than lynch than a DLS lynch. Show me how this is not the case and I'll unvote.

You're voting me on the value of my opinions? You're simply saying the same thing you've been saying against me all along. I'm good at talking, I'm active, and I was wrong about the DT Lynch. All Day, you've been saying that, but what have you really said? Why am I dangerous? Why have my opinions been leading the town astray?

My opinions are questionable at best? Show me where. Stop focusing on a single mislynch, that 6 other people agreed was a good move.

And even if what you said is true, think of it like this...iI may be a more dangerous scum, but I'm a far more useful Townie than someone like DLS, who can only follow people and defend herself.

But you know what?

Unvote, Vote Infinitive

Here's what I'm seeing? Who would the scum, more than anyone else, want to vote off? Someone loud, active, and with opinions. Thinking is exactly what the scum does not want the town to do. DLS is good for the Scum, she's fairly easy to manipulate, because of her defensive style. You're lynching me because you think I'm a strong willed townie who is particularly vulnerable to lynching at the moment, and you even say so yourself. You just think that if you put enough mayo on it, the town will believe your chicken shit is chicken salad, but I don't buy it for a second.

I asked you to show a pattern that isn't dependent on DT being a townie, and you failed to do so. Show me these coincidences, these "chain of events" you keep seeing to find.


And frankly, with a vote count at the top of the page, I don't believe for a second you could have not noticed I was at three.

[Thanatos]

He's not at L-1, Liam.

[Thanatos]

He's not at L-1, Liam.

So he's not, I can't count. Thanks.

But if I vote, I do put him there, no?

I know. I'm not saying you should vote him. I was simply stating the fact. As it stands, I don't think he should be lynched yet, though I am tempted.

[Thanatos]

Whatever. Vote me if you want. It's not like I've got 2 months worth of solid scumhunting built up, and a reputation as a pretty neutral guy.

I'm town. There's nothing I can say to convince any of you of this, because I could just be lying. That being said, I've given my explanation, and it's the damn truth. If you want to bandwagon me, fine. Your call.

Being neutral doesn't prove anything. The fact is, you were pressured to justify your actions, and you failed to do so. There is one truly bad thing that I find scummy more than anything else, and you and a certain someone else do it. You ignore peices of information given to you. This post makes me all the more sure...

Actually, by your logic, you would be even more dangerous scum than me, since you have that scum hunting and neutrality to call on as defense. You're a very trustworthy figure, are you not?

[Thanatos]

I'm calling a Hiatus of my actions in this game, for about 48 hours or so, as I get the last remaining bits of work done (by bits, I mean 25 pages, give or take) so don't hold it against me if I can't defend myself, or attack the people who I am now fairly sure of in their scumminess until then.

[Thanatos]

Nudude: Doesn't anyone just play normal classes any mores. I happen to like my Druid.

[Thanatos]

I'll get my PBPA up tomorrow. I just got home.

[Thanatos]

I used to raid hardcore on WoW- I was main tank for my server's #3 raiding guild for the better part of a year. It was wild fun.

Then BC came out, and being level 70 was exactly the same as being level 60, except without the big guild comraderie. I got bored with Molten Corhazan (same damn instance, just a different resist type req'd), and quit. Kind of looking forward to the Jumpgate: Evolution beta though. That game looks sweet.

Now, back on topic, discussion seems to have stalled for d2 here. What do you guys want to do? I'm going to stand by my vote, as Than seems, to me, to be the scummiest guy that hasn't been cleared by a copclaim.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's time to look seriously at what our best bet, as town, is.

I'll be posting my complete PBPA of DLS tonight. Let's see what comes from that.

And I play wow too. My only serious character is a level 64 Druid on Lightning blade, Fomerly of Nazjatar.

[Thanatos]

Sorry about the holiday absence. Reread will occur immediately.

[Thanatos]

Ok, time for part one of my PBPA on DLS. lets seem what I get, and how far I get into it. This will be a summary of EVERY post she makes, and any mention of her by others of significance.

Post 19: random vote on Nikon, confirmed townie.

Post 23: Lord Nikon does his weird response to her, somewhere between OMGUS and semi-random.

Post 39: HeH makes one of the first significant posts of this game, commenting on DLS making a fourth vote on Page one. I'll keep that in mind, since he DID die. Infinitive defended her.

Post 49: She unvotes. Fair enough...

Post 50: Nudude keeps his FOS on for really BS logic. I remember him being called on it, and him backing down, but I still think that was a bad move by Nudude early on.

Post 51/52: she defends herself, and he backs down.

to be continued...Right now, I've noted how, even from the start, she's yet to do anything that's not defensive, though there was also alot of bad arguments about her, and some people defending her.

Post 55 is continuing discussion of her Random vote, though I wonder now..She said she had a random reason, but she delayed because she didn't notice Lord Nikon...but what did Lord Nikon have that drew "not being dark like her"as a reason. wouldn't that apply to anyone. This is kinda out dated, but I find it odd..

post 64: VL points to a possible Charter, DLS, Infinitive link. Kinda interesting, ecessially since, unless A. We don't have a cop by some fluke, or B. Our cop is a TOTAL idiot who doesn't realize the importance of lynching scum right now.. VL is most likely town. HeH and infinitive argue against VL.

76: DLS gives an "I'm new" response, and it seems to go well. Nudude is a noted standout in his opinion, being "reserved" in his opinion on her.

Post 95: She defends S_K, and I suppose by extension, myself. I've stated my opinion on the connection between S_K and myself, and I don't think this is really the time to go into it further.

Page 100: HeH, confirmed townie, accuses DLS of redirecting attacks on S_K to LN, another confirmed townie; and again comments on a link.

Post 101: she gives a snippy response to HeH, which DT (sadly, confirmed townie) called scummy.

(also, I just pinpointed the begining of the DT lynch. it was NUDUDE, shortly after this. I'm making a note of that here, because it's one of the most important points in this game)

Post 117: Infinitive mentions that DLS vanished after the heat died down.

120: She throws in her tentitive hat agaisnt DT, but doesn't vote or official FOS. She does question HeH though...about her own post. This bugs me. Why, when a case is starting to build, is she still defensive?

125: She attacks DT! Sorta. She questions him on his goddamn smilie conversation. But that's most like trying to work out what he said.

135: A handsome Stranger joins the game. Press considers it the beginning of a new golden age! *shot* Bust seriously, looking back at what I thought about certain people...It's given me a few ideas.

Page 168: She launches the first attack against DS...I may skip this part.

Post :173: she laments her inability to watch scrubs, missing, along with the rest of us, DTs rather unsubtle roleclaim.

184: DT Roleclaims House. We were, in fact, as thoroughly boned as I said.

Post 190: is when the shitstorm began..though looking back, DLS' first shot didn't make much sense.

I'll cut it off there, and continue later.

Here is what I noticed...DLS is consistant, but she's not entirely in the shadows...one thing I noticed was that she said that she scanned the first page for mentions of her name. That leads me to believe she's a very defensive player, perhaps simply because it is her nature. Feel free to discuss this as it continues on. I'm only a 3rd done.

Ok, doing this has basicly stopped me from doing anything else in this game, or any other game, so I'm going to finish this and catch up now.

I hope no one minds if I skip over the Argument. One thing to note though is that the point of the Contention was started by DLS scum hunting. A lot of what occurred was reflected later on when DS attacked me on D2, which I find interesting, such as when he commented on DLS admitting to Twisting his words, when this clearly wasn't the case, but that's enough on that.

Post #302: I'll pick it up here, where the fight basically end.

306: She argues against killing Deepthought that day, since no one counterclaimed. Hindsight's 20-20 =/. This is her last post for a while.

308: Nudude says the following on the fight, for the record. "DLS's mannerisims have seemed a bit strange, and perhaps the message she was trying to convey got misconstrued, but she's strange in a way that does not further the cause of any imaginable scum agenda. I'm leaning to her innocence at this moment."

Her next post is 410: Interesting, because she takes a hundred posts off, only to show up the second her name is mentioned, by Nudude, asking for input. Of course, this probably lead to it, but it shows she was reading. DS himself comments on this. The only thing in terms of Scum hunting I note here is her questions doubting my plan for detecting DT's alignment:a plan I still say would save us a lot of crap. DS disagrees.

422: she says that there are likely Scum on DT's lynch.

426: DS askes her to vote, she says she's noted her not voting, and is aware that she should soon.

446: She askes doe someone to comment on post 422. Interesting, that she's trying to draw attention to herself. I don't know if I can call that townie, but it's interesting. I tell her, basicly, that she didn't say shit, which is also important.

Now, if she's scum, and she's simply trying to appear interesting, is this something she would be doing?

This is her last post of D1.

Oh, something I noticed infinitive say. He said that a false leader won a game he had played in.

Infinitive, if you can please show me the game you referenced at the start of Day 2, I'd be greatful.

507: says she still thinks DS is supicious, but she's leave him alone for the moment, then says "At this point anything I have to say will probaly have already been pointed out and I will get accused of simply agreeing with others and not producing new evidence like it seems a few others have fallen victim to. I'm going to attempt a re-read and see if I can bring something new to the table......" which I don't think ever happened.

527: DS uses HeH to cast suspicions on DLS, attempting to bait her, and later me.

556: She snaps back at DS for not so subtly hinting that she was my Scumbudy, saying that there was no basis outside of her defending SK in the beginning of the game.

562/63: Defends herself and then me from DS. the two of them continue to duke it out, while I argue against DS. He accuses her of overreacting, she denies it, and she's very defensive through this, but that's natural. I still say DS is a total Asshole, so I kinda skim over these types of arguments between the two of them.

579: Her "I lied" post. she defends herself to Gorgon, saying she wasn't attacking a PBP itself, but DS's usage of it. Being in the same situation, I understand and agree with what she's saying, but that's obvious. She also says "I wouldn't call myself being overly defensive. I may be overly explaining myself, but thats just because I'm trying my best to cover myself from all sides"

581: she says her lie was a turn of phrase, rather than an actual lie.

583: She defines overly defensive as "I see being overly defensive as being short and snappy with people when they accuse you and trying to force them to back off by being mean to them. If me trying to cover myself from all sides is overly defensive" which she's not been. She is, however, mainly defensive.

587: She refuses to quote comments made by DS, effectively out of spite.

595: She repeats that her Lie was about her not talking about something, which she later decided to speak on

597: Citing "Recent evidence" Nudude votes her. She asks "what evidence."

603: Nudude's vote on DLS is stated as being due to her biggest post being what she put on me, setting this entire reread into motion

609: DLS says that she feels as though Nudude isn't really voting her for a real reason, and the he doesn't read her posts.

613: Nudude's response is that she's accusing him of not listening to what she's said because he didn't understand the points he was making, to which she responds that he didn't read them at all, because he ignores things she said.

614: she asks where DS went.

623: she clarifies her stance, saying that Nudude skims her post, then asks her to check his facts for him. Interestingly, she doesn't imply that he's being scum. she then asks charter to follow up his statement about nudude possibly being scum in her next post...

Ugh! I'm sorry, but I can't do this any more. This has taken me all night, and I have a headache. I've looked at her actions, and frankly, I think she's been very consistent in her actions. I can't read her stuff easily, because she doesn't type it out clearly, and I think she acts suspicious at times, but all in all, I think she's a legitimately defensive person, who has attempted to scum hunt by observing the way people act.

If you don't like that, I'll go into it deeper, but right now, I can't talk about this anymore. I still need to read all the recent posts from the past 10 days.

[Thanatos]

hmm...Interesting. DS, one of my most hated players, is at L-1, and I can hammer him.

In the end, I really think DS is more likely to be scum than almost anyone in this game, and killing him today is the best thing we can do. He's been scummy, aguementitive, and ignores arguments that don't suit him.

I may come to regret this, but I'll

Vote:DS

and do you one better.

Tomorrow morning, I'll claim. It will cast a lot of light onto what has happened in this game, and the reasons I've done the things I did. I'll also explain why I chose Morning of D3 to claim.

But I'll discuss this after the Scum kill VL, or (hopefully not) me, in an attempt to keep me quiet. That is, unless, there is no D3....But we'll see.

As I said, I'm not entirely in a proper state of mind at the moment, having been staring at this topic for a while, but I do have some idea about what I'm doing, so..as I said, let the die be cast.

[Thanatos]

No, you fool! You fully justified fool!! ((lol))

We were waiting until after DS said his spleel about who should be lynched after him. You were included on that list. Though I wonder if he was ever really going to produce the reasons anyway....he vanished again.

We were? Damn. This is what I get for voting as soon as I get back.

I don't know about anyone else, but both me and DLS have been stating a case against DS all Day. Hence why I'm pretty comfortable with killing him.

And frankly, to be honest....This is selfish of me, but I was pretty sure this was the only thing that would get me interested in this game again.

[Thanatos]

Not investigating is a ploy? What possible agenda could I forward by not investigating DS?

That you two are alligned in some way?

Exactly.

It'll be interesting, then, to find out DS's Alignment. Or, at least role. Hell, maybe you're masons.

[Thanatos]

Well...I got Roleblocked last night. Damn....I didn't think we'd have one.

I guess that means you should know what I am. I am a vigilante. I killed Insurgent, and I was GOING to kill Nudude. Everything I've done has been to breadcrumb this fact, and the act in accordance with my ability as an asset to the town. I was actually having some second thoughts about claiming when DS came up Mafia, but since I was blocked, and there was no kill, I figured it was best to come clean BEFORE the witch hunt.

[Thanatos]

The sole basis of you thinking I'm scum is that I didn't immeditaely investigate DS. I was the first one to vote for him, and I didn't move my vote even when he was at L1. Doesn't that say anything?

I swapped and changed my votes all through D2, so I had a perfectly good excuse to take him off L-1, and put my vote on someone else.

I really don't know what else I can say.

I also find it very interesting that you are stuck on lynching me. Consider Thanatos for example. I don't believe his role - claim one bit.

Yesterday he said he's going to roleclaim today. What possible advantage could he gain from that? The simple answer is there is no advantage at all.

He needed an excuse to say he was "Role blocked", so he tells everyone yesterday that he was going to role - claim.

Here's the thing though. IF we have a role blocker, why would he block you? You admit your going to role claim, and since it makes no sense for a mafia to role - claim, we can only assume your going to claim a pro - town role. So why would a role - blocker block you? It makes no sense.

I'll make this easy for everyone.

VOTE: Thanatos

If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. I'll vote for myself as the first act of the day.

Well, you are wrong. Makes me wonder, since a scum would know this, and he'd be putting himself on the gallows.

There were a few reason I wanted to claim. First, I wanted to prepare for the possibility of DS being town. If he was, I was dead unless I explained myself. When he came up mafia, I regreted it.

Second, I was kind of hoping the scum would decide to stop my claim and kill me instead of the cop. I know it was a pipe dream, but I had hoped I would distract them. Of course, I'm glad they didn't, since VL didn't investigate anyone, but whatever.

As for why I wanted to kill you, there were quite a few reasons. I was supsicous of you from my very first post. The way you pressed into DLS, who I now think is town, and myself as well as your backing of DS much of the time, was a big factor. I still think your scum, and you're trying to sacrifice yourself to get through 2 days. Tell me, if I live today, and get killed tonight, will you still vote for yourself tomorrow?

As for Insurgent....I was convinced we would kill Liamcool yesterday. Beyond him, I wasn't really sure what to do. I didn't want to pass up my kill, because I had read that, statistically, a jumpy Vig helps the town. I also gave some reasons yesterday, when I talked about how Insurgent was the one who convinced me to stay on DT, and I was pretty suspicious of him, albeit for a bad reason. He also seems like something of a useless townie, and realistically, as good a kill as any. In hindsight, I should have gone with my initial person I wanted to kill, DS, but I chose to let him live.

[Thanatos]

By all means, think about it for yourself and take your time, no rush.

It's impossible to be 100% certain wether or not someone is scum untill they go to the noose, but comparing the stretches of thinking required to justify Thanatos is an Vig, versus how the pieces fit together if Thanatos is an SK, I feel certain he the SK.

I also think of the consequences of being wrong if he is an SK. There are seven players, I'd say 4 townies and 3 scum (2 mafia + 1 SK). Now if we lynch a townie, and Thanatos is an SK, we could lose 3 townies in one day/night, making 1 townie and 3 scum, meaning the the town will almost certainly lose, as the mafia will kill Thanatos, and even if Thanatos picks a mafia to kill, that leaves 1 townie and 1 mafia, which means town lose.

No matter how I look at it, I don't trust Thanatos enough to put the game in his hands. If we lynch Thanatos, we know for a fact only one townie will die tonight, and if turns out we were wrong and he is a vig, you'll have confirmed me as scum (which I'm not!) and will know who to lynch.

The question is, do you trust Thanatos enough to risk only having one townie tomorrow?

There's a major problem with what your saying. If I'm scum, then the second kill comes from someone else, you don't leave the game in my hands at all. If I'm an SK, then first and formost, you need to understand that in Scum versus town for the endgame, I'm counted as a townie. That's how situations such as a single scum, SK, and Townie can end up being on the last day.

So let's recalculate. there are 2 mafia, 4 townies, and a vig or SK who is counted as a townie for deciding endgame. We mislynch today, mafia kill tonight, and I miss-kill..there are 2 mafia, and 2 townies. We lose the game. Doesn't matter who I am, SK, or Vig. In other words...if we mislynch, I can't kill tonight, without risking endgame death. Besides, if we miss the mafia roleblocker (and I'm assuming it's a mafia roleblocker, since a town one wouldn't block the role of a guy who was about to claim) I won't be able to use my power anyway, and will likely die tonight.

So, to sum up..letting me live does not put your life into my hands as an Sk or vig.

Now, on to the more pressing issue of your sacrifice play, your logic here is completely insane! We don't confirm a damn thing. You could damn well just be an idiot who doesn't think before he speaks, instead of scum. I don't like the way you're playing this game, but if they kill me, and you're town, we lose the game if we follow your plan. What townie would present himself as a scum based on even the strongest of hunches?

I don't know. Maybe you're a scum who's very desperate to get rid of me, and wants to use the apparent safeguard to get rid of me, in the hope that your buddy will wipe everyone else out in the mean time. Maybe you're being an irrational fool. But know this. trusting me is no more risky than anyone else in the game, killing me can prove potentially detrimental to our power as the town, and sacrificing yourself is at best a vig for scum trade, and at worse, town collective suicide. That's just fact.

[Thanatos]

I doubt he can, but I will.

If you read my posts, I've been saying I am convinced that Thanatos is an SK, and presented my case, and that if people didn't agree with that, to do their own investigating.

Can you explain why he killed someone who was in the game a little over 24 hours after they entered the game, while ignoring a slew of suspicious characters?

I already explained this. I wasn't sure who to kill, so I made a stupid choice and killed a townie who appeared harmless, but had done something I had felt was scummy right before night, putting him at L-1. I didn't think we had anything to lose, so I killed him. It was rash, I know.

Can you explain how he knew he'd been roled - blocked? My understanding is that most of the time you don't told why your attempt fails. I could be a GF, there could be a back - up doc, there could be many reasons, but he was sure he'd been role - blocked....how?

I highly doubt there is a nurse in a 12 person Mini, and as far as I know, the GF isn't NK immune. Besides that, I admitted to being a power role just before night, which would mean that a mafia role blocker would block me regardless. A RB is a far smaller coincidence than a Nurse protecting you or you being NK Immune, which you aren't admitting to anyways.

Can you explain why you said that an SK is counted as a townie in an end game situation, when this thread:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... +killer%2A

Would seem to indicate that is false? The only true way to know a win condition is by reading your role PM, but it's clear that a SK is not consdiered a townie in an end game situation....why mis - represent the facts?

My dear Nudude, you just proved me correct. You see, this situation could NOT occur unless a SK was considered as town for endgame. What I mean by endgame is the point where either all anti-town roles are eliminated (which, in this case, an SK is treated as diffrent from scum or townn) or when the scum outnumber the town, which is the situation you're talking about. Now, if there are 1 scum, 1 town, and 1 SK, and the SK is treated as scum, the town loses. However, your link PROVES that this is not the case. It's a difficult situation for the townie remaining, but it is not an automatic loss. In fact, we've learned the way around it from that link. No lynch.

Can you explain why you finished off DS yesterday before he had a chance to say anything, a stark contrast to today where your calling for calm, rational consideration. I agree that people should take their time and analyse the info.....so why did you yourself rush to the lynch yesterday? Because you were sure he was scum? How is me being sure your scum any different, except that I'm calling for people to prove me wrong, not neccesarily agree with me and rush to the lynch?

1. I dislike DS' style of playing, and thought he was scummy for a long time.

2. that day had lasted for months. This one is barely a week old.

3. I was losing intrest in playing Mafia, and wanted something to spice it up a bit. Moving along in the day was the best bet.

In summary,

1. His best guess D1 was a guy with four posts and who had replaced into the game a little over 24 hours before the lynch, despite there being more suspicious characters.

I had no reasonable suspicions, except for Liam, which I already explained, and wanted to explore a safe option. I chose him SPECIFICLY for the reasons you listed

2. He cannot possibly have known he was role - blocked.

Know for sure and being a logical conclusion are two diffrent things

3. He claimed that an SK is counted as a townie in an end game situation. This is false, unless a role PM says otherwise.

I just proved it true. Well, you did.

4. He killed DS before he had a chance to open his mouth. It turned out he was scum, but I'd hardly call that a carefully considered act. I feel if your going to ask for carefully considered acts, then you should also carefully consider how you act, but twice this game you've been quite brash with your decisions.

It wasn't carefully considered, but it was logical for my thinking, and I'm not exactly unhappy with the choice

Just so were clear, I have no problem with everyone taking their time to look things over. I'm just saying I'm pretty damned sure he is scum, and I'm presenting my case. I encourage everyone to present their own.

There. That should prove to most reasonable people the lack of logic or reasoning in your argument. And I noticed you avoided talking about your sacrifice play. Can't you admit you were wrong?[/b]

[Thanatos]

Well, we know for a fact the first proposed scum group is wrong. DS was a goon. And, if you believe me that I was role blocked, then the second situation you presented seems to be the most likely. And, as you said, another pro-town role would be justified in this setup.

But no. We can't prove anything yet. I'm still not sure what I think about you. You havn't been acting as either scum or town as far as I can see...it's almost like you want to get lynched, but I doubt we have a miller. Can you PLEASE comment on your sacrifice plan?

[Thanatos]

Even though if you're a townie who's wrong, you're not just betting your life on it. Your betting the game.

[Thanatos]

It doesn't matter if they Could have done that. If I was scum, I know I wouldn't have done that, and, I suspect it never occured to them that roleblocking the cop would be a better idea than killing him, especially when no one had counterclaimed, when I believe everyone was calling for a role blocker. I don't know about everyone else, but I would have believed the role blocker claim. I've already given you reasons for why a roleblocker is more likely than a one shot assassin, nurse, or what have you. That fact hat you continue to hold to these ideas is...odd.

[Thanatos]

There are no reasons why I would not be a vig. Your ignoring the reasons why your arguments are irrational. If you were willing to back down, or consider other possibilities, then I'd probably think you were just a wrong townie. Now you're being beyond irrational. You're being scummy.

Vote:Nudude

I'm not sure about this, because you've been acting strange all day, but..whatever.

[Thanatos]

hmm...This would explain your actions to some degree Nudude...but the way in which you back them up, the way you cling to them despite unadressed and overwhelming evidence, and your sacrifice play reek of scum...At the very least, I'll keep my vote on you, but I don't advocate a Quick-lynch.

[Thanatos]

From what I have seen thus far...there is a large probability that either you or Infinitive is scum. Right now, this is mostly a hunch based on the voting patterns, and the way in which the two of you interact with people in this game...but I believe that if one of you has to be scum, with a buddy being either Gorgon or Liam. I want to examine this possibility some..with a cup of piping hot testimony!

...*cough* I play too much PW...but the point remains, I want to investigate infinitive a bit. I want to know more about the way he's been playing this game, specificly what he thinks about everyone (we've heard it all before, I know, but bear with me, please) and what his impression of the game as a whole is.

I would also like a comment from Gorgon on the dispute between Nudude and myself.

[Thanatos]

Gorgon, I think, makes a very strong case for the connection between Liam and DS, and I agree that it's worth pursuing. However, call this selfish, but I want to find the RB. We know for a fact that this is not going to be liam. If we can track him down, I can get one more kill before I die, and that kill might be able to end the game.

We have a confirmed, vocal, scum. Let's do a re-read on him.

[Thanatos]

I'll say this as well. The longer this game goes on without a godfather turning up, the more likely Liam is scum. There is probably a godfather in this game, as they're pretty common, and as 12 players become 7 become 3, the likely hood of him being Godfather increases if one is not found. As I said, we should wait on him a bit.

[Thanatos]

Inf nearly lynched me yesterday. We fought most of D2.

Also, you have a single vote on you. Calm the F*** down.

[Thanatos]

You don't get it, Nudude. The one who's not willing to listen is you. You don't seem to believe ANYTHING I say, and consider other people beliving it must be scum. You can't even consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, you're wrong, there's a role blocker, and people believe that?


Also, let me ask you something. You say my actions don't make sense. If I am scum, why do my actions suddenly begin to make sense?

[Thanatos]

I am calm Thanatos. No need to be rude.

You have a single vote on you, and you're having a eulogy. That's either heavy-handed or panicky. In any event, it ain't calm.

[Thanatos]

...Um...so am I?

Right now, for now, you're the best vote. If that changes, I never said I wouldn't take it off. And, as you just now displayed, you're so caught up if your ferver that you miss the big picture. If you are town, you're really screwing this up for the rest of us. If you're scum...well, just keep at it. It worked well for DS.

[Thanatos]

Well...Gorgon sure set himself up to be Nudude's buddy with that post. He even admits it. Well...I dunno yet.

Really, unless we do something stupid, we're not in a bad place. I'm pretty sure that either Liam, Gorgon, or Nudude is a scum member, and we have two lynches before we lose (assuming I can't kill tonight because of RB) So we manage to get a scum before we die...

Actually--Mod, if I die tonight, and don't get role blocked, does the kill go through?

[Thanatos]

What really strikes me is Nudude's Unwillingness to consider that I'm an SK. There's nothing I can do to disprove it. My actions and abilities as an SK are the same as a vig. It's simply a matter of trust. If we kill 3 scum, and the game isn't over, I suspect that I will be in big trouble.

Why, then, in the face of the most likely possibility, as said by now 4 people (Me, coolbot, Infinitive, and DLS) where I am a scum, does Nudude discount it?

One reason, at least, makes sense. If I'm an SK, I'm a potential asset in the short run. As Nudude helped me prove, killing me, regardless, puts the town in Lylo.

So tell me, Nudude, why can't I be an SK? And what was with that Slip up, anyways?

[Thanatos]

I've given my reason for insurgent.

And you of all people should know, yes, you were, are, and will be in the future, the best guess I have for a vig kill. If you weren't, why would I go out of my way to say so, regardless of Alignment. That's hardly an argument in your favor. You should know better.

And infinitive had a point. You just referred to yourself as the RB, where the hypothetical you were just teamed up with one. I don't build cases on Freudian slips, but that's a bad one.

So, once more, give me a reason why I can't be an SK.


And mod, please answer my previous question.

[Thanatos]

Of course, if I am a vig/SK and the roleblocker was still around, lynching me if we miss tomorrow is death for the town. I'll defend myself to the best of my ability, if I'm alive tomorrow, but there is only one certian way to keep things in our favor. Meaning, then....we have to kill the RBer today.

[Thanatos]

Nudude, You still say theres no RB? Well...think of it like this. They have a confirmed cop, and a confirmed random power role, that could be anything (though I breadcrumbed Vig, and with the second kill, they likely suspected it) so...what do you propose they do, exactly.

We never would have doubted VL. We all agreed that the real cop should counterclaim in that situation. Meanwhile, they have a confirmed cop, and a confirmed powerrole. Why, tell me, WHY would they think to do it the other way around. Sowing confusion, "maybe" is not worth letting the cop go free.

Having a role blocker makes perfect sense. They have very little to gain from letting a cop live, and you seem to be putting a large ammount of effort into sowing confusing about me.

On to Gorgon...I can't say I'm not pleased. Generally, his actions (though they may be distancing) make me like him, because 1. He not only agrees me on this issue, but sees the same pattern I do regarding the scum. He also has done something I don't think a scum would do (though, of course, only because I know my innocence) and that's tell people not to quick lynch me if I live tonight, which would be interesting, if, for example, Nudude comes up the Roleblocker, but Liam isn't the GF (hint hint, Infinitive) So...I feel much better about Gorgon, right now.

However, I still would like some insight into your thought process regarding this reversal.

[Thanatos]

Nudude, you posited two scum groups, both of which have RBers:

1. Scum = 1xGF 1xRB 1xOne shot assassin.

This is a powerful mafia group, but there would probably have to be another pro - town power role to offset this. Thanatos could be the one - shot assasin, say he's a blocked vig, and if the role blocker gets lynched it will lend alot of weight to his claim.


2. Scum = 1xGF 1xGoon 1xRB.

A little less powerful, but another pro - town role would probably be justified in this setup.

Further, you seem convinced that any RB in the game is a scum RB. Why?

Let me ask the town this, hypothetically speaking, if I was a pro - town role, regardless of what that role was, and you guys confirmed it by lynching me, would that be enough evidence to show that it is highly unlikely Than is a vig because it would be unbalancing for town?

How can this be anything but scum fishing for a safe claim? We'll evaluate the claim

after

we know what it is, not before.

Odd. How did I miss this? Yeah, Nudude. What are these groups?

[Thanatos]

Vote Count

Nudude (3)

- Thanatos, CoolBot, Dark_Lady_Shaiann
Thanatos (1) - Nudude
liamcool (1) - Gorgon

Not Voting (2) - liamcool, Infinitive

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

In answer to Thanatos's question: being killed at night does not prevent someone from making an action that night.

Good. I may be able to make use of this fact, but the best thing to do right now is kill the RB.

Right now, I think that that RB is Nudude.

[Thanatos]

oh for fucks sake.

Unvote

Don't be an idiot.

[Thanatos]

Damn it. If I had realized it was L-1 I would have unvoted.

You IDIOT! If you actually pull this off and Martyr yourself, you will have singlehandedly destroied that town! You Basterd! Stop being so fucking self indulgiant and realize the simple remifications of you possibily being WRONG! You're being an Emo-brat about this, and have probaby ruined this game. You fail at being town. Horribly, horribly fail.

Fine...I need to think of what I'm going to do...there are a few things, here. They may decide to let me live, and furthermore, to dick with the town further...I'll tell the town what I'll do. They may likely kill me anyways, decide it's not worth it, or whatever...so...

If Nudude comes up scum, I'll kill Liam. Plain and simple. Unless he's the Godfather, which seems unlikely, in which case I'll go with infinitive, for some rather complex reasons.

If he's innocent, I'll kill infinitive. I have a hunch that could save this town, and, if I am still alive, will explain then.

With luck, all will be made clear. Nudude may have fucked us all over, be I, for one, will not go quietly.

[Thanatos]

Told you so.

I was roleblocked. I couldn't kill him, after all...hmm...

Good luck, town. Farewell! Fare welll!

[Thanatos]

Nume can delete this, and I'm sorry to have to do this, But post goddamn it!

[Thanatos]

What? FUCK! How the hell is it that infinitive wasn't scum? I was sure my plan would have worked. Hell, Infinitive even screwed up when he denied seeing my post that I would kill him, even though he fucking RESPONDED to it. What the hell?

*sigh* We were all outplayed. Plain and simple. It's a shame to have it end the way it did. The town screwed up an ass-ton. And those two never even got seriously accused. GG.

[Thanatos]

So, Coolbot. What was the scums reaction to my trap I tried to set up? Did you figure out what I was doing, or just decide not to risk it. I thought it was a pretty tempting bit of bait.

*sigh* I feel bad. I never really suspected Coolbot and Gorgon. I could have done so much...This was really my bad.

Course, Nudude didn't exactly help.

[Thanatos]

You did pretty good, all things considered. The scum were just really good this time around, and our power roles all did shitty jobs.

That said, why did you claim to not notice what I said about killing you?

[Thanatos]

Believe it or not, I just didn't. Maybe I glossed over that bit when I quoted you, maybe it happened on a busy day at work, and other things just kind of overwhelmed my memory thereof. I honestly couldn't say, but I honestly don't remember that statement before it was pointed out for me on d4.

But you commented on it and even said that they would let it go through if I announced it.