Open 54 - Basic 12 Player (over) before 529

[Andycyca]

metagame (OMGUS) Vote: wank

Nice to see you again!

[Andycyca]

I thought we were already out of random...

You posted "I think Patrick is town" out of nowhere. Nobody was talking about him, not even posting suspicions and the first thing you do is to throw a comment based on (gut?) only 2 posts.

FoS: Elmo

I'd like an explanation on why you mentioned Patrick so suddenly.

[Andycyca]

Sorry, school is overwhelming me this week, So I'll post quick thoughts on the game so far.

1. Advancing a bandwagon on IH
2. Keeping up up a post count without actually saying anything helpful
3. Establishing himself in our minds as someone who does entirely pointless things, in order to lower our expectations of his play
4. A decision to follow Glork, who looks like being an influential figure in the game.

I'm not sure this list is helpful, there must be many reasons behind a vote change. I think this list could be trying to narrow our vision negatively. I like the reasoning behind, though:

But when someone changes their vote, well, there's usually some kind of reason behind the change, because things are already moving, and replacing one silly vote with another is futile.

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appleof83, Post 69: (apparently too carried away with joy at being understood to remember that he's voting for me) yeah! FOS Ripley!

fos ripley for reading way too much into things "

I don't know about this one. I don't think that "reading too much" is reason enough for a FoS, and I think it's strange that apple FoS'es the one he's voting for. To me, it sounds like throwing everything against him hoping for a lynch.
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I'd like to know about Patrick as well.

[Andycyca]

I would also like to note that Andy didn't respond to me at all = |

I'm sorry, what was your question again?
-----------

What do you want to know about me?

I wanted to hear something from you, as people started pressurevoting me and I didn't see you posting on last page.
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Also, I don't think reading too much into things is scummy this early, unless a vote seems to come at an oppotunistic time or for absolutely terrible reasons.

You mean it could be a coincidence? Could be, but I'm more inclined to believe it wasn't.

Throwing everything against him? Doesn't really strike me that way.

What I meant is that he might be trying to post about the "negative" aspects of ripley's play for us to follow him. Maybe i worded wrongly

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About 42... I said "out of nowhere" because it's a bit odd from my POV to post confidence in someone when we have little info available. At that point, Patrick had posted twice, and we weren't even discussing him or his actions at that point.
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@Crub: I understand that your vote was meant to pressure me, I'm OK with that, but I don't think it's fair to pressurevote when your posts last page (67 and 73) and those in the first page (12, 17 and 22) have no POV at all, no commitments, no good nor bad points on anyone. I know I'm not very active right now, but I'd like to read something useful from you.

[Andycyca]

(Sorry, heavy exam time. Will be back by tue)

[Andycyca]

@Crub: I find it strange how you voted me for pressure, but so far, your posts in this game have been of little use to our discussion. Your second point is because IH told you so. Why exactly are you following his "orders"? and "What Elmo said" seems like you don't really have a case by yourself, you're based on someone else's thought. Why?

@IH:

I would also like to note that Andy didn't respond to me at all = |

I'm sorry, what was your question?

[Andycyca]

@Patrick: I'm having a tough time hunting scum here, as I haven't seen anything particularly suspicious. All my suspicions right now are still in the "gut phase" The main gutscum to me is Crub, because his posts have been the less useful so far.

@IH: Glad you clarified that, but you know that [out of game] I'm in the end of term, which means heavy homework and exams and all that.[/out] That's the reason why I haven't read with 100% understanding, but your points 1 and 2 (about missing content) are true because of this.

I'm not "hunting scum" just because I don't have anything real to be suspicious about, only gut feelings.

[Andycyca]

[out of game]I am in just enough games for my attention span. I'm not /in'ing nor replacing anymore right now. I like treating games as a commitments, and that's why I feel bad for misreading and misunderstanding posts. I'll try to keep my playing at its top, and I will ask for a replacement if I feel I really can't follow up anymore. If anyone feels that I'm not really playing at my best, tel me and I'll openly ask for a replacement, no hard feelings. I'd hate to spoil a game because of my schedule and/or playing poorly[/out]

[Andycyca]

Shanba, why are you reasonably happy with my answer? Is there anything else I have to answer to?

[Andycyca]

have no idea why I lose town points with Crub.

He has failed posting how he came to those conclusions. I think we all have the same question.

[Andycyca]

I thought my wagon was a pressurewagon

[Andycyca]

@Ripley: I don't think this game is bad. Maybe a little slow (and I'm guilty of not posting as much as I would like, but you know, end of term...)

Which do you generally find scummier: Somebody who is somewhat inflammatory and contributes weakly to discussion, or somebody who posts without adding anything to the discussion?

I find scummier people who post without contributing. I mean, even inflammatory comments can give some info based on the reactions (sometimes) but not contributing in a game where discussion is crucial it's certainly bad.

...that's why I asked Crub to post something with more content after he pressurevoted me.
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I'll post more content tomorrow, I'm a bit overloaded now. And, I'm sorry to say it, but

I'll have zero Internet Access during this weekend (23-25 Nov)

[Andycyca]

It might be. Or it might not be. What's a good reason to believe it is? Ripley's pointing out possible reasons - I find it hard to believe someone would actually be mislead into thinking they would be the only possible reasons. Certainly, as soon as apple says "no, it was just me fooling around" anyone who was getting tunnelvisioned would probably say "oh, yeah". I don't see it as something a person would say because they were legitimately concerned about it, so it's plausibly something else.

I posted that because that's what I thought of that list. I usually don't take every post as true without contrasting it a little bit with reality, and I wanted to point out my feelings about it, as I don't think a vote change wasbound to happen for those reasons alone.

A single FoS is not going to significantly influence anyone's behaviour. I don't think it's true, and I see no reason to say that, apart from (wait for it) attempting to make him look more suspicious.

First sentence is true, though. I said that because, as far as I know, the FoS is used to say "I suspect you, but not enough for voting you" From all the "instruments" used to state your suspicion for someone, the vote is the highest (as it implies that you want to lynch the suspect). FoSes, HoS es and everything else is below the vote. That's why it looked strange to me. Why use a 1st level suspicion and then a lesser suspicion indicator? Doesn't make sense to me, but also, FoSing doesn't contribute actively towards a lynch.

I will answer it when I feel the time is ripe.

Why?

[Andycyca]

I'd like to read something from our most absent members (apple and sikario)

Sikario's sig says he's not posting "Because of school break" He said in 158 that he'll be out of school soon, so...

AWAITING comments from appleof88 and Sikario8

[Andycyca]

Ok, I'll be gone for the weekend, so here's my 2 cents before going out.

Discussion over semantics shouldn't happen except for rare instances. Also, what good is it to know that "I'm 100%Townie" and "I'm Townie" mean different things?. Even if they do (I don't want to think too much about it) It's not helpful for finding scum. If it is, please tell me why and how.

UNVOTE. Vote: wank

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Happy Thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates it. I should be back by Monday

[Andycyca]

Ok, let's set this straight:

Patrick, I'd like you to tell me why you're suspicious of me. I don't think I have enough information for building a non-gut case on anyone (even on wank, who likes to double and triple-post without too much content)

This, combined with our

lurkers

Not very active players give me little to think about, as many posts here are debates between two players, and i have little to do in those occasions.

[Andycyca]

Okay, let's set this straight

Patrick, as I've said, It's true that some of my posts have been "I Agree" posts. But I don't have anything strong enough for me to cast a serious vote on anyone, and saying "I agree" it's a lot better than to jump on/off bandwagons. Agreeing with other POVs is my way of saying: "Well, here's something to add to the list against this player" and I build my cases based on my observations and this "list". I know I haven't done great scumhunting job in this game, but I don't have anything but lurking to start a case on anyone: I've seen several discussions and reasonable answers, enough to mark everyone as "not scummy enough"

The top-o'-page votecount says that Patrick and I are close to dying. I'd like to know your reasons to vote me instead of anyone else. As far as I can remember IH voted me for pressure and Patrick for the reasons stated above. I don't like having a random lynch today, so let's begin rereading and pointing everything useful enough to lead us to a reasonable lynch.

[Andycyca]

OK, two more cents.

These last posts are making me think Elmo is protown, however I'm not really sure wank is scum. Yes, he's been contributing very little to this game, but I think it's not for hiding something, maybe he's just pissed.

I find it amusing that elmo considers anyone that has a negative opinion of him is a non contributor.

I missed this post in 274 and i must say i feel uncomfortable about it (I think it's a response to 258) Elmo says: "Crub/wank aren't contributing" then Crub says "you think that just because I suspect you" I smell a little emotional/OMGUS here.

About Ripley, I don't have anything for nor against. Same goes for Apple, IH and JD, given their little presence around here.

Patrick and Glork look very protown to me, as they are encouraging discussion. Shanba is the only one giving me scummy vibes, like he's trying to make up a distancing scene with anyone jumping on wagons.

[Andycyca]

Quick post (escaped from Bio class)

@Patrick: I mean that Shanba accuses you of jumping wagons as soon as they start, but I don't think you're scum, so a nice possibility could be that Shanba is trying to pull off a framejob by "Distancing" with you. More when I get home

[Andycyca]

@Shanba: OK, I admit I'm awful at scumhunting on D1, I always move at a slow pace in the beginning. But you said Patrick moves "on a wagon just as it's taking off" Unless my memory, my english or my maths are wrong, you were in my wagon earlier. Several people unvoted and when Patrick voted, my "wagon" was (oh my!) 2 votes long, (see votecount on 255) I don't think that's jumping on a wagon just as it's taking off. Besides, he gave a somewhat reasonable reason (duh) behind his vote. Also Patrick strikes me as more protown than you, as he's encouraging good discussion (and before I knew you were sick, I thought you might've been lurking)

Also, I never said you and patrick are distancing, I commented that you might be trying to frame him on a "distancing" scene. Now I admit that suspicion is wearing off, but still IGMEOY

Again, I'm not very good on D1, many of my thoughts are gut-based, that's why I prefer to be extra-careful with my votes.

[Andycyca]

Little bit overcrowded by work. Will post later or tomorrow.

Mod: When's the deadline?

[Andycyca]

Little bit overcrowded by work. Will post later or tomorrow.

Mod: When's the deadline?

Reading the rules is fun.

First post says Tuesday, that's why I'm asking.

[Andycyca]

About JD's wagon... I never understood why it started and answers like 400 aren't that helpful, but I don't like his first reaction to it. Two OMGUSy votes in 385, 331 (331 says "It's NOT OMGUS before you ask, thx") Otherwise I still see no reason to wagon JD. I understand voting for forcing him to be active, but he appears in here and automagically a wagon begins on him. In short: I don't see the reason behind the wagon (or I missed it) but I definetly don't like the way he reacts to it.

[Andycyca]

Now I don't definetly like JD's reaction

UNVOTE, Vote: JDodge

[Andycyca]

What's the point in listing that Crub? I mean, we all know now that their suspicions were genuine, but that doesn't make them true automatically.

Glork, I'd appreciate a reason behind your vote.

[Andycyca]

I read, and I know you post it as a reference, but the fact that those suspicions come from 2 confirmed townies don't make those statements true. Also, I usually don't use them too much, as it could lead us to many WIFOMesque scenarios.

@wank: A reason for what? Yesterday's vote for JD?

[Andycyca]

About JD's wagon... I never understood why it started and answers like 400 aren't that helpful, but I don't like his first reaction to it. Two OMGUSy votes in 385, 331 (331 says "It's NOT OMGUS before you ask, thx") Otherwise I still see no reason to wagon JD. I understand voting for forcing him to be active, but he appears in here and automagically a wagon begins on him. In short: I don't see the reason behind the wagon (or I missed it) but I definetly don't like the way he reacts to it.

I didn't like JD's reaction to his lynch ("I'm voting but it's not OMGUS in case. you were wondering") Besides, it's true that his suspicions for Patrick and Glork came only after they voted him and his own defense was "I posted my reasons previously" (415) and "It's not OMGUS, mafia started this against me" (417) I don't see that as a decent reaction to a wagon with a deadline and my spidey sense tingles a little in the presence of people who are "resigned" to die without defending themselves.

[Andycyca]

Actually I'm more worried about IH than Crub, as he has posted less in this game. I remember him saying he was ill...

Appleseed, what do you think of yesterday's lynch?

[Andycyca]

FoS: IH

You pop in here and all you can post is "Please brief me"? I'd like to know why you didn't comment on yesterday's wagon on JD (at least, what do you think of the current votes? See Glork's for example)

[Andycyca]

I want to vote andy.

I don't know if I really want to.

What's the use of these posts?

And exactly why you want to vote me?

[Andycyca]

I still want to hear why IH didn't comment on yesterday's wagon.

Vote: IH

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Also, I'll be V/LA from dec 14th to 21st. and random access during holidays

[Andycyca]

Nice posting IH. I don't like you asking for a Glork lynch and then voting Wank, but that's just a feeling.
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176 makes a very decent point. I don't have anything else to add. Why you point it? Also, I noticed Crub's reason for voting Patrick. Crub, you mean you're following Glork's lead?
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Deadline is coming and judging from the latest posts from both IH and Crub I've decided to

UNVOTE. Vote: Crub

IH's been giving more of his thoughts and Crub votes "in the name of progress"
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More after some sleep

[Andycyca]

Not me either.

[Andycyca]

Yay! Finally got back home from holidays. I'm rereading, will post more later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Also, school semester begins next monday for me. I ask for some patience during those first days of the term.

[Andycyca]

Ok, again. I didn't comment on ripley's wagon yesterday for the same reasons I didn't comment on JD's on D1: I never saw a real reason (other than "Glork's lead" and "Ripley is irritating"). Of course, I wouldn't defend him and nobody explicitly asked me for my opinion on that.

Also, I'm sure you're aware that I was poking you for lurking AND contributing less than other lurkers (I remember seeing several "Sorry, I'll reread" posts) And of course, I didn't knew you were the cop. Sometimes during this game we've had some times when 2 people start arguing with each other, which slows the overall analysis, and that's why I wanted to "lurkhunt" as you call it.
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Ok here's my suspicion list (not including IH and Glork).

D1 was full of Crub little-logic posts (remember 119, 132, 146, 168) but I see Crub sometimes plays lazy and sometimes plays content-fully. Don't like his playstyle, but he

might

be town.

Kitty: done little since replacement, but substantial. I don't like you calling Patrick an auto-town, though. Also town.

Patrick: I see him discussing reasons a lot, which makes him town to me. But looking at a Patrick-only thread I see him poking Crub several times, (not very strongly, though) more than any other player. I vaguely suspect distancing here.

Shanba: Talk about noncommittal. He last voted Patrick on D1 and his last stance was a FoS on me on D2. He expresses his opinions on everyone but I haven't seen him putting his vote where his mouth is.

Vote: Shanba

Sikario/TSQ: Sikario played very little as well, and I didn't like his playstyle, but that's only gut. I hope to hear more from TSQ yet.

[Andycyca]

As individuals, from town-est to scummiest

Glork & IH
Kitty
Patrick
Crub
TSQ
Shanba

[Andycyca]

Sorry for the inactivity, but this was a particularly ethilic weekend for me.

UNVOTE

Reasons below.

Crub's behavior and last two votes look strange to me.

Oh well :\ Looks like I lost this game for town.

Just to highlight, I've managed to convince the Cop and the Paragon I'm scum. What sort of "snowball's chance in hell" am I supposed to have in this situation

Both posts are appeal-to-emotionlike. Also, as I've said before I find posts with no content scummier, and this is isn't the first time Crub posts with little contribution

About 643... Are you aware of the fact that just because the majority thinks

something

that doesn't mean

something

is right. (otherwise, the world would be a better place, politically speaking)

Also, i agree with Glork's 627. You've scaled in my scum ladder, enough to tie with Shanba. Still, I too, want you to state your cases before deciding further votes.

[Andycyca]

Still here, but I'm having network problems.

Also, *bump. I'd still like to know what does TSQ think of Crub.

[Andycyca]

Still with (local) network problems, I'll post tonight

[Andycyca]

Problems solved. Honestly, I don't know what conclusions I can draw right now from Kitty/TSQ's discussion. I'm rereading them very carefully and will post right when I'm done.

[Andycyca]

Well, From their debate, both TSQ and Kitty look more protown to me. As for scumpairs, I still think Shanba/Crub is our best bet... so

Vote: Crub

[Andycyca]

Well, actually as someone pointed (don't remember exactly who) the deadline rule was like a tactic for us. I don't remember actually planning to lurk around deadline, but it could definitely be a nice scum tool. As for the strategy... Patrick's post has it all. Our backup strategy was actually to lynch me in order to gain some confidence, but Crub's strange vote really helped.

As for N1 kill... dammit Patrick! WIFOM prevailed there.

I'm still kinda newbie (this is only my fourth completed game) so, seeing several experienced protown players did scare me a little (specially in that post where Glork points as us three)

It's not mandatory, but I'd appreciate some feedback on my play

specially bad points that I could improve on.

Thanks all for playing and Ether for modding!

[Andycyca]

BTW you can check Open 54 for moar info. If you find any error, tell me so (or correct it yourself)

[Andycyca]

/agree with Shanba

Me clean? I think I hit L-1 once or twice (once on D3) and my argument about you trying to frame Patrick was indeed a bad move on my part.

[Andycyca]

You can also bet that if you behave

anything

like the way you did in this game, I'm going to nail your ass to the wall so hard you'll be shitting drywall and paint chips for a week.

Ehm... I take it as a compliment?

About the common denominator... it was kinda hard, don't you think? I mean, I remember seeing one votecount with like 6 or 7 different players, with one vote each.

Also, I must say it wasn't a gift-wrapped game (not for me, at least). We were VERY lucky Crub cast suspicion on himself on D3...