Mini 523 - Game Over!

[deepthought]

vote liamcool

for not having an avatar. Loser.[/b]

[deepthought]

If you don't really care who your voting for, maybe you don't really care who we lynch? That's what got me suspicous.

As I said, I'm willing to accept your explaination for now, but IGMEOY.

(Is that "I've Got My Eye On You"?)

It's a weak case to springboard off of even during D1, and I'd be much more interested in the way you've maneuvered around so far.

I certainly hope that doesn't happen this game. There's nothing wrong with voicing thoughts, and I think it's important people can feel comfortable voicing their thoughts without fear of being speed lynched.

That, for example, smacks of trying too hard. It's an easy snipe from the wings (people should

discuss

things! ) that uses a lot of words to effectively just say that charter voted twice. That's not that remarkable early on.

If conversation doesn't pick up guys, we might have to start having a look at some of the lurkers.

Another easy snipe: lurkers are a safe target because they don't hit back and nobody really likes them anyway. You don't even pick on anyone, just suggest "guys, we should potentially do...something."

It's doubly odd considering the town's in no danger of a deadline and things are moving along reasonably, if a bit slowly (I'm an SA native, I should be the one getting impatient. )

[deepthought]

At least I'm contributing, rather than coming out swinging at the guy proposing that we start having a look a lurkers......how many posts had you made before this? Is it coincidence that your comment comes after I propose we start having a look at lurkers?

One of the things that plays out differently on SA is the opening, where a few jokevotes get thrown around for the hell of it and people start posting actual stuff within a few hours or so. This game's been just the opposite: everyone plunks down a vote and nothing else, disappears, and things start to stall (because a jokevote is contributing, amirite?). Normally I'd be a bit more chatty, but you need something to work with.

All of that aside, your post still comes off as forced. If your concern is purely lurkers killing the game, why go after the guy with two posts (two votes, even) and not one of the quieter ones?

[deepthought]

The one thing that stood out to me while reading the weekend's posts was Dark_Lady_Shaiann putting a 4th vote on Lord Nikon.

I agree largely with this post but I don't think Shotgun_Kitten should get a free pass after putting up the third vote and then vanishing only to surface with one "sorry for being lurky" excuse. She seems to have been largely forgotten.

[deepthought]

Well, let's do this.

unvote liamcool, vote Shotgun_Kitten

[deepthought]

Official Vote Count

Shotgun_Kitten (3)

- deepthought, charter, Hang'em High
charter (2) - Nudude, liamcool
Lord Nikon (1) - Shotgun_Kitten
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1)- Lord Nikon
Disciple Slayer (1) - VampyreLord
VampyreLord (1) - Gorgon

Not Voting (3) - Infinitive, DiscipleSlayer, Dark_Lady_Shaiann

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Be careful a bandwagon doesn't form here, people. If nothing else, it's foolish to become suspicious of someone because they haven't posted recently, and then to lynch them before they say anything about the increasing number of votes against them.

Nobody's going to drop the hammer before she gets a chance to say something (at least I'd hope not), but there's nothing wrong with poking her with a stick a few times.

[deepthought]

This is getting ridiculous; SK is single-handedly stalling the game and hasn't posted in just under a week. Replace her or modkill her or something.

[deepthought]

I don't like the way you singled S_K out like that. Lord Nikon hasn't posted since page 1. I understand that everyone else is upset with her because she hasn't stated a good enough reason for her vote on L N, and I don't mind that, but to only blame S_K for the game stalling and immediatly request a modkill doesn't seem very fair, or very townie.

Her inactivity is more obnoxious than LN's because

a) she's posted less content, a vote and a "sorry for not posting anything", and
b) she's got two people besides me that've been waiting on her, specifically, to say something for days.

LN also got a prod and SK's apparently being replaced soon, so I haven't really stressed either point. If a replacement comes in before a few days, cool. If not, SK's dead weight at best and I don't mind lynching her.

Couldn't we just vote the people who aren't posting at all out or something, if it's bugging you all that much?

Why would you need to ask this and not put down a vote yourself?

[deepthought]

Not that what DLS says is invalid, but I find it interesting she is defending Shotgun_Kitten and redirecting toward Lord Nikon. DLS and SK both placed supposedly random 3rd and 4th votes on LN -- I wondered at the time if they could be scum buddies trying to generate a bandwagon.

It's persuasive, but I'm less inclined to start there because it'd be a perfectly bone-headed scum play. If SK is scum (a completely vague "if" at this point, mind) I'd go after Gorgon first for

1) an enthusiastic "yeah, that third-vote

did

look a little suspicious" followed by a vote on VampyreLord
2) biting down hard on the players that've gone after her for lurking, going so far as to vote for liamcool.

I kinda get the overall impression, re: SK, that people aren't so much opposed to lynching lurkers as they are to lynching that particular one.

That said, DLS's last post

was

pretty scummy.

[deepthought]

I don't think any townie would ever want a random mod kill, when a replacement will not only reveal more about that particular character, but also because it's a shot in the dark, we could be killing a townie for all we know. Even considering this option is on par woth considering a quick - lynch, and there's only one type of person that wants a quick kill.

Did it really take you four days to work up the rage necessary to respond to that post, or did you feel like it would be easier to do now that more people suspect me?

this post makes no sense, so I'm just filling in for it here

If she's a power role, we'll probably spend the next two weeks in some stupid argument over the word "modkill" before her replacement shows up to roleclaim and then we'll start the whole circus over. If not, she seems like a reasonable scum candidate and obviously signed up for the game with no intention of playing anyway.

[deepthought]

The conventional wisdom on SA says that MS games are doomed from the get-go because you'll inevitably replace a quarter of the game day 1 and twiddle your thumbs for a month before you lynch a townie just like everyone else. I think I've been giving this thing a fair shake, but please don't complain about the same lurkers I'm complaining about and then vote me for being the only townie with a spine.

SK's early behavior was scummy because she put down a third-vote and vanished without explaining herself (and half you came right out and agreed with that), so I'll probably keep my vote put unless her replacement claims a power role. Likewise, I'll reiterate the "replace her or modkill her or something" comment because I'm used to a forum where modkilling for inactivity isn't that uncommon and I don't particularly care

how

the mod gets rid of her, but I'd prefer he gets rid of her.

This isn't that difficult.

[deepthought]

He seems fairly adament that we get rid of her by any means necessary. I think this is dumb because we have virtually no information on her, and I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that she's scum based on almost nothing. It certainly isn't enough for me to lynch someone on. All I can go by is probabilities, and there's a greater chance, she is in fact, a townie.

There's a 75% chance

any

given player in the game is a townie, power roles notwithstanding.

Next.

[deepthought]

Uh oh. Major alarm bells. Sounds to me like you're saying you know for sure that there are 3 scum. Tsk tsk tsk.

I've modded 12-player games before, so I'm about 95% sure; unless there are a handful of third parties, 2's too few and 4's too many.

Sorry, Deepthought, but I'm FOSing you.

Not after all we've been through!

Why is it that you agree with the suspicion of me that's been stated but don't want to commit yourself to the bandwagon? There's plenty of room left, by my count.

[deepthought]

Anyway, I'm here now. I'm leaning towards Deepthought, becuase of previous reasons we have all discussed and now becuase he has completely ignored a question asked of him

Here's how that conversation plays out:

- It sounds kind of like fake indignation. Nothing particular.
- But it

wasn't

! How could you possibly think that?
- Because that's how I read it?
- But that's not how I meant it!
- And?
- What?
- Why are we still arguing about this?
- I'm voting for you, jerk!

I thought it sounded scummy. No particular reason.

[deepthought]

ok....you can't really find something scummy (or not scummy) for no reason.

Of course I can. There's a difference between sarcasm and indignation, and I interpreted it as falsely trying to appear indignant.

[deepthought]

I'm going to throw you a rope deepthought, HeH also felt that MAYBE (Emphasis on the maybe, HeH was quite clearly just giving his best guess) that 25% of the players maybe scum. I also think that percentage is about right.

That's nice and all, but it's not a matter of outside knowledge so much as having more experience playing and modding - 3/12 is standard whether you call it "emphasizing that this is a best guess to re-iterate how much I JUST DON'T KNOW" or "3 scum, duh".

You can tweak the exact split of roles or screw with the mix by adding third parties, but it's basically useless to speculate about that without any cardflips.

[deepthought]

I want to make sure I'm voting him because he's scummy, not because he's belligerent.

The point of my posts isn't to say, "how dare you question such a distinguished mafia player", it's to respond to "why are you so sure that there are 3 scum?" I'm so sure because in my experience 3 is standard, and I always start with that assumption on day 1. I've modded more games than some of the people criticizing me for this have

played

, so I think it's a fair response.

I quoted that part of your post because you and charter seem to be the only two with any notion of the big picture - you're not looking for players you disagree with, you're looking for players that are trying to trick you into thinking they're townies. If the charge is "you said you don't mind seeing townies modkilled or lynched for lurking", then...no. I don't. I don't even think a day 1 townie lynch is that bad, while we're at it.

That said, if I'm being abrasive I'm being pretty honest and straightforward about it, and I don't see how that makes me scummy. Nobody's stepped forward to help me out and I went from 0-4 votes in the span of a page of a half, but I've shot down every stupid question and half-argument without getting panicky or (more) irritable because I know that my potential cardflip makes the people saying things like "you're so obviously scum because you didn't put 'probably' in front of that percentage" look like enormous tools.

If you want a trip, read page 3 and then page 5 immediately after. At first half the game was tripping over itself to agree with me, and now half the game wants to lynch me for the same reasons. Does this really not strike you as a teeniest bit odd?

[deepthought]

However, more than just disagreeing with your views on modkills, I find it downright Scummy. Theres more to the vote than that, but don't say I'm voting for you because of a simple difference of opinion.

I'll try to be more precise, then: you're voting for me because you agree with HeH and Nudude's differences of opinion.

If you've got an argument that isn't "you said the word modkill", I'm all ears.

[deepthought]

I'm tempted to post #113 again as a text box with 72-pt font taking up the entire page so you'll stop ignoring it.

[deepthought]

I suppose it explains your actions, which is why I wouldn't want you voted off right now anyways, but it still doesn't completely clear you...Most than anything, you've still failed to respond to my question. What does it do for the Town?

So it makes sense as a response to the question of "why'd you say that?", you can start to understand why I said what I said, but you disagree with the underlying assumption.

We might call that...I don't know, a difference of opinion?

In this game, a modkill would've eliminated a player I think may be scum. More broadly, it gives people an incentive not to lurk and play off of people's unwillingness to kill of lurkers (which otherwise ruins the game and is massively unsportsmanlike). Replacement's preferable when it can be done, but either would've worked for me.

[deepthought]

just so I understand completely, how does it play off of peoples unwillingness to kill off lurkers?

If people tend to say things like "X isn't posting, so we can't lynch him" (which people have done here), there's no incentive to stop lurking and every incentive to take advantage of that to avoid attention.

[deepthought]

Wow. Try to be a little more emo next time.

[deepthought]

9 posts later your suggesting a mod kill

before

her replacement has even had a chance to make a single post. And since then your stance has been "If we get a townie, it's not that big a deal" which is a clear contridiction to post 75, where you advocate giving people the chance to defend themselves.

The "don't hammer her before she gets a chance to say anything" wasn't so much to give her a chance to defend herself but to give her a chance to make any last-minute roleclaims and avoid lynching a power role (which is the reason I brought up that possibility a couple times at first). That's why replacements are preferable to modkills.

[deepthought]

Go to hell. I've had it with you.

Don't get me wrong, Reign in Blood was decent. I've never been a huge fan of thrash myself, but as metal albums go it's pretty influential.

Also, you weren't really being subtle looking for an excuse to do that. Welcome to the bandwagon. Glad to have you aboard.

[deepthought]

@deepthought: Nice attempt to label valid arguments and suspicions as a bandwagon.

Did you forget to post them or something?

[deepthought]

Oh well, looks like liamcool put us at 6 anyway.

Any of you watch Scrubs?

[/img]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8055/moronshi4.jpg[/img]

[deepthought]

Well that wasn't supposed to happen. Preview your posts, kids.

[deepthought]

Scrubs is awesome!! But I rarely get to watch it cause I work in the evenings

Tell me about it - the TV's always taken up on Thursday by people watching Grey's Anatomy. Fortunately for us, NBC Rewind has all of the episodes available for online streaming.

[deepthought]

If nothing else, get a roleclaim out of him before you kill. (and frankly, I think it's too soon for that as well)

The Scrubs reference flew right over your head, didn't it?

[deepthought]

DT, what role are you, exactly? I want you to roleclaim. I think others do too.

[deepthought]

How in the world did we get such a belligerent doc? Hahah, unvote for now.

Ignoring half the things he says is a good first step.

[deepthought]

All I can say is that Doc is one of the best claims a scum can make. I want to see what happens for now.

No it isn't. If I were scum fishing for a safe claim I'd pick miller or bulletproof.

If it makes you feel any better, I was considering claiming cop to draw out the real one and fuck with the town but thought better of it.

[deepthought]

Vote Count

deepthought (5)

- Nudude, Hang'em High, Gorgon, liamcool, Thanatos
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1)- Lord Nikon
Disciple Slayer (1) - VampyreLord
Shotgun_Kitten (1) - deepthought

Not Voting (4) - Infinitive, Dark_Lady_Shaiann, charter, Disciple Slayer

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

1. Why would you want to fuck with the town?

Since you all bought into the notion that I was acting like an asshole so easily (and for the record, I still don't see why), it seemed like an appropriate gesture of thanks.

If you were thinking about falsely claiming cop, wouldn't that also mean you can make a false doc claim? How much percent accurate is your doc claim, DT?

I provided not one, but two posts with pictoral evidence. Your witness.

[deepthought]

How can you detect lies if you don't ask him questions?

And how is that interrogation supposed to go, exactly?

- So what are you, scummy mcscumbag?
- I'm the doc.
- Oh. Well, I don't believe you.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- ...

I'm off to bed and class tomorrow morning, but I'll post my thoughts on who looks scummy sometime in the afternoon.

[deepthought]

I can provide pictorial evidence showing that I am, indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ and savior of mankind and it wouldn't do shit in this game.

Well, duh. You'd be picking a role that got lynched a long time ago.

You're not a very good scum.

[deepthought]

It's basically an attempt to throw the game and is terribly unsportsmanlike.

Hence the reason I decided against it. I have no beef with Num, and it wouldn't be fair to screw up his game while he's putting good effort into making it enjoyable. The rest of you, on the other hand, made it a pretty tempting idea. If more of you had moved beyond shitting on your keyboards and spell-checking the results, and started thinking about the arguments on their merits, maybe the wagon would've turned out differently. Who knows.

Personally I think Infinitive and Disciple Slayer are both scummier than an algae factory, and here are my thoughts:

SK / Thanatos

- I'd lean town. On the one hand, he's pushed to keep the day focused on a single easy lynch target before and after the roleclaim, coming right out and saying "let's let the lurkers come and finish him off." That's potentially an effort to distance himself from the end of the wagon, force lurking townies into making themselves look more suspicious (by dropping the hammer on a townie, and a power role at that) to set up a progression of lynches, and get rid of the one person willing to accuse him.

On the other, he came right into the game blazing with a vote on shaky reasoning, and I imagine a replacement scum would more carefully consider the potential backfire (accusations of OMGUS voting, overeager play, so on and down the line). It reads to me more like a townie wondering, "how can he possibly think I'm scum when

I

know I'm confirmed town?!" than a scum looking for a strategic kill.

HeH

- I'd lean town, with reservations. My initial impression was "only guy in the game that knows what he's doing", so even though I was on the fence for a while I was content to leave him be on the theory that he'd be the most fun to play against later on if he were scum. That said, he was one of two players during the asshole-wagon to explicitly slow down with, "think about what he's saying on the big-picture merits", which is a happy medium between the two scummier (and more common) arguments: "I agree with everyone else's suspicions, vote" and "guys, let's be careful we don't vote off a townie".

charter

- About on par with HeH, if a little shakier. Willing to step back and examine the merits of the asshole-wagon in a very "I'm not sure how deepthought is actually aligned"-esque way, but also seems very snipey with his comments. A shot from the wings here, another there.

Lord Nikon

- Probably an idiot vanilla townie that got his role, played for a few days, figured his role wasn't important enough to need to tell anyone he didn't feel like playing anymore, and took off. If he played that way as scum and I were a mod, personally I'd blacklist him from future games, but that's neither here nor there.

Nudude

- I'd say overeager newbie town.

VampyreLord, liamcool, and Lord Nikon

- Each deserve a big red avatar that says "PUSSY" until they grow a pair and stop lurking, but unfortunately you can't buy those here. Odds say one of them is probably scum, and I'd start with VL and liamcool.

DLS and Gorgon

- Coinflips.

Disciple Slayer

- During the asshole-wagon, interjects just often enough to not be lurking but not often enough to be noticed, and without any substance beyond "I need more info" or "I'm confused, check back later". Jumps on the bandwagon claiming my attitude is "pissing him off" despite the fact that he hasn't actually interacted with anyone in a meaningful way, after it's becomes clear that the wagon is a safe bet, but not before testing the waters with an FoS that he can't be held accountable for. My #2 pick.

Infinitive

- Read through post #117; you couldn't make those arguments any more vague if you

tried

. Agrees with the suspicions posted of me but doesn't jump on the wagon, potentially afraid of being called out for it - even pre-emptively deflects suspicion by saying this is all intentional and links to some stupid "how to be a good townie" thing to allay suspicion in the opening. Hasn't offered an original thought this entire game, I don't think, despite posting more regularly than others.

[deepthought]

I'm going to leave it for now, but if she posts something stupid again, rest assured I'm going to go after her for it.

Over/under on the number of times DS obsessively checks the thread after he says he's leaving: 9.

Takers?

[deepthought]

It's like watching retards fight over cake.

[deepthought]

Oh, and one more thing: Who's deepthroat? You have said that a few times. I'm wondering if it's on purpose or not.

Deep Throat was the FBI source that leaked information ultimately blowing up into the Watergate scandal, the implication being that I've uncovered DS and his scumbuddies and he's trying to cover his tracks.

If I had to snap the ball right this minute I'd say Infinitive, DS, and liamcool, so

vote Infinitive

[deepthought]

deepthought, I'm hurt you think I'm a "over eager" newbie townie.

You use a lot of very over-wraught arguments, and there are two ways to read you at this point:

1) Scum attempting an aggressive opening that limits the scope of day 1 to townies - post #22 might want to get out of the jokevote phase quickly to take some heat off of LN (who has 3 votes at the time, which might lead a new-player teammate to panic a little) without explicitly going after the people who've voted for him, or just put yourself out there as a forward-thinking townie. You see someone calling your play "newbie town" and think, "if I appear hurt, that'll make me look REALLY innocent!"

2) A new player who wants to get the town on track, hit home runs with every argument, and generally be All-American. The reason I opt for this one is that you try a very abrupt shift out of the jokevote phase, where it seems like a scum would be able to lurk a little longer and get a better feel for who's worth targeting (and would want to so as not to draw a target on his back).

[deepthought]

Is this just a hunch as to who you think are scum? Or would you like to explain why you voted for infinitive?

I already did. Feel free to read it whenever.

Or that your name is made to sound very close to it, maybe.

...

Do you people just not have sarcasm detectors built in?

[deepthought]

You know what, scratch that. If you think somebody's being serious about raping somebody else in a dark alley, it's probably a stupid question.

[deepthought]

You didn't seem to have a very good case against either, but still say that "infinitive and DS are scummier than an algae factory" yet you don't back this up very well.

What exactly are you waiting for, someone to roleclaim scum? I gave you my impressions of each player and those three are the ones that looked scummiest at that point - I picked Infinitive because he hasn't said anything for a while. If you agree that liamcool looks scummy, vote him and I'll join in. Doesn't make any particular difference.

[deepthought]

... except the reason he did that might easily be that he realised that he wasn't actually throwing down the hammer ...

Or, more likely, he screwed up just like he said and realized the mistake.

IMO it really has no bearing on whether he's scum or not - both scum and townies goof up sometimes, and while scum would certainly be more likely to panic and provide a windy explanation, I don't see someone lying about having a bad weekend at the D&D convention.

It's a coinflip.

[deepthought]

Don't get me wrong, he's still scummier than a septic tank (since charter is some sort of tree-hugger that doesn't like algae metaphors); there are just better reasons. You should come vote for him.

[deepthought]

Confirm vote: deepthought

OH SNAP DOUBLEVOTER ROLECLAIM















unless I guess you were worried that Num didn't catch it the first time or something

[deepthought]

EBWOP: deepTHOUGHT not deepthroat goddammit

Oh, dear.

[deepthought]

Don't you have anything to say in defense of yourself?

Did you think the other 11 players were conspiring to misspell my name or something?

[deepthought]

So, in all the posts where you quoted something from me, you didn't notice the big bold "originally posted by" headers either?

[deepthought]

What do you all think about it?

It's bone-headed. Even

if

the mafia ignores the claimed doc n1 (and good luck with that), the cop can't investigate me and not tell anyone because the rest of the town's going to want to lynch me within about an hour. He's just wasted an investigation whether I get nightkilled or not.

[deepthought]

The point of it is that we take his silence like it's him saying yes.

He can't say yes because he'll be killed the next night.

He can, however, say no, because that means there is still a doctor out there, thus, until the Doctor dies, he is safe.

If we can all agree to this, we can get an answer without revealing the Cop.

Ahh. That actually makes a lot of sense (I hadn't considered the "there's still a doc" part), but there's still the problem that the mafia's almost certainly going to kill the claimed doc and the cop's investigation is most likely wasted.

(nightkill, which he doesn't seem too worried about, oddly)

There are a couple new SA games firing up that I want to get in on, so I've replaced out of another mini and I'm basically just waiting to be nightkilled.

[deepthought]

They could do that anyways.

And why wouldn't they after you've made it perfectly clear who the cop's going after? Now the doc's dead and the cop doesn't have any n1 results that aren't already confirmed by the cardflip (and my "I told you so, idiots" post).

It doesn't hinge on there being a cop, it hinges on the mafia

ignoring a claimed doc

. There's no reason to hope I get lynched day 2 when they can just as easily off me sooner and not run the risk of losing a kill.

[deepthought]

I'll be honest. You're going to die. If your innocent, I'd rather they do it than us.

Exactly. Let me get nightkilled (or lynched tomorrow, if need be) and let the cop use his investigation somewhere more useful to the town.

So you just have your "impressions" of everyone? You're not going on anything but your hunches?

Yep, just like you and every other player. The only difference is that I'm more honest about the fact that my reasoning is all intuition (and may certainly be wrong, there could be two townies and a cop in my list of suspects for all I know). Still, call it whatever you want; it's is more thoughtful than most that's been posted in this thread, and in any case I'm the only one between the two of us that hasn't voted for the doc. I'd say that gives me the right to ignore your "significant contribution to the town" talk.

[deepthought]

Argh!

I've already told you, if we don't do it, they might NOT NK you!

So? I think everyone's working under the presumption that the town's going to gang-rape me on day 2 if I'm still alive, which is perfectly okay because

a) the only benefit the scum could possibly get leaving me alive overnight is the chance to take out the cop night 1 and get me lynched the following day. That's a pretty dumb play by the odds.

b) If the scum pick another target, we may have other power roles that do their thing and completely turn everyone's assumptions on their heads. Roleblockers, vigs, cops of varying sanities (that's one possibility I suggest you all keep in mind for day 2 whether I'm still alive or not), redirectors, watchers, who knows. I may very well be alive and cleared by new evidence when day breaks.

[deepthought]

..No benefit? How about if we lynch the doc, we arn't lynching Scum? it's better for the scum if we waste a lynch. Even better on the Doctor. If you ARE innocent, We'd be forcing them to do it themselves.

The whole discussion's moot if the town lynches me day 1 - we're talking about what the scum and cop can be expected to do if I'm still alive and what the ramifications would be. You think the cop should investigate me; I don't.

You're trying incredibly hard to be dense.

[deepthought]

give us the moral defeat of killing off our own doc

...

we hold a gun to the scums head, telling them "I dare you the mess with us, because we have a way of knowing the truth"

...

We're the playthings of the Scum. You're a smart guy, right? You should know this. Knowledge of the Doc is a dangerous thing in the hands of the scum. By doing this, we are still gambling. But this is the ONLY gamble I can see in which we have control. We force the Scum to act in a way which we can plainly see. This is a controlled Gamble. That is peace of mind which is well worth a single cop investigation.

...

2. You're just a wuss who doesn't want to die tonight, even if it hurts the town.

The mafia doesn't get any extra kills if it avoids targeting me - it kills a different townie, and I don't see them doing that for the slim chance that they might hit another power role. There's obviously no convincing you what with all the theatrics, so I'm done trying on the assumption that the cop (and dear God, I hope it's not you) is reading your posts and agreeing the plan is impractical.

Because you know if he investigates you, he'll find out you're scum? Or now that your gambit to find the real doc has failed, are you trying to find the cop for a NK?

Just don't go and slit your wrists after I cardflip, because I picked the "under" on the number of people that'll ultimately get replaced out of this game and it'll throw me off.

[deepthought]

Ladies and gentlemen,

liamcool Plays Mafia: A Montage

.

*curtains*

Vote: Charter

Might as well get on a bandwagon, I suppose, considering we really don't have anything to go on yet.

Actually, in regards to your post, Nudude, it's made me kinda suspicious about Infinitive. Not wanting people to vote means the scum get an obvious advantage. Yes, I know, this probably doesn't make a ton of sense, but eh.

If people don't vote, the people who are voted against can't defend themselves (because they're not voted for, obviously), and then the town doesn't have as much information as they might possibly have.

Question (which may show my ignorance): How many Mafia are there? Do we know?

Couldn't we just vote the people who aren't posting at all out or something, if it's bugging you all that much?

Based off the last page or so (the new conversation), I have a fairly strong suspicion (about 60%) or so that deepthought is scum. He seems to want Shotgun Kitten to be killed rather than replaced, which is kinda suspicious. Also, he apparently knows that there are three mafia. He stated that with a lot of convinction and knowledge. For all we know, this might be a non-standard game with 2 or 4 mafia, or even a bastard mod game with screwed up roles. Highly unlikely for the second instance though.

Okay, it seems blaringly obvious due to his nature and all the evidence piling up. I'm probably going to regret this, but I'm going to join on the bandwagon..

Vote: deepthought

Please just end this arguement, we're getting nowhere as long as you two continue bitching.

Actually, I've made the mistake of typing deepthroat at least five times, being so used to that.

As for his doctor claim, I think it's totally false, it seems very desperate in trying to get out of being lynched by saying "ooh, look at me, I'm the doctor".

Now that I've said that, though, look at him be the doctor. *laughs*

I feel that it damns DT as scum, the evidence, in my opinion, is just too strong. His attempts at trying to convince people he's the doctor are pretty pathetic and just a desperate attempt at saving his life.

I have no idea how nobody's lynched you yet. You're so scummy it's painful.

[deepthought]

There's also the possibility that you just walked into a rolefishing trap set by DT though.

If I were scum, I'd read his plan as "Whoever the cop is (NOT ME), some other player of whom I have no knowledge, should hypothetically (BECAUSE I WON'T) do this instead of me." I probably wouldn't take that kill, assuming Thanatos is town.

Truth be told there are really only two players I have in mind as likely cops.

Um, that's pretty much the cop's job description. As soon as the cop has a guilty, he should come forward immediately.

Not always. Generally you want cops to verify (or narrow) their own sanities with 2+ investigations so you don't get the insane cop coming out and saying "GUYS, I GOT IT, DEEPTHOUGHT IS SCUM" and lose both power roles.

[deepthought]

Also,

unvote; vote liamcool

[deepthought]

I think it'd be just super if VL started playing the damn game and Nikon's replacement showed up.

[deepthought]

If we've lynched Liam, then we're one scum down and have lost only a generic Townie, while almost-but-not-quite roleblocking the Scum kill for that night. The downside to the plan? If we lynch DT, the town has in reality lost only a generic Townie, not the doc, and the scum have to scramble come nightfall to figure out who to shoot.

Speaking of discrepancies, you seem fairly convinced that lynching liam nets the town a scum for someone whose last comment regarding him was "an alternative to DT, but not close on my list of suspects".

Also, I'd hardly consider losing a vanilla townie vs. a doc and making the scum scramble a bit a "downside".

[deepthought]

stuff

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

I propose a trade: you tell everyone what exactly you think of me and why, and I'll expand my case against liamcool.

[deepthought]

Try expanding your case against liamcool. You're already in a bad position. I also like how you keep labeling the truckload of valid suspicions against you a "bandwagon".

Do you expect a vampire lord to uphold his end of a bargain after the fact?

Because I don't.

[deepthought]

Pretty much all my posts for the last few days have been on this. The fact that he has to decide which role to claim to try and save himself when he's created a mountain of suspicion on himself. No townie would fake a power role to save their own skin.

I didn't consider it to save my own skin, I considered it as a "fuck you" after the bandwagon took off on little more than an argument-by-repetition that I'm an asshole. If it had succeeded I probably would've been lynched outright and kicked off the site.

How is this anything but a blatent dodge of answering his request? You do this all the time to all kinds of requests. No one else seems to pick up on it and find it to be even more suspicious of you though...

VL pops in after lurking hardcore with a throw-away vote for Thanatos and an "everyone else, tell me why you're voting for who you're voting for". This

1) Makes him look like he's contributing by holding others' feet to the fire, when in reality he's just listing off players and saying "post stuff", and

2) Directs attention

away

from the fact that he hasn't posted anything substantive concerning the big pink gorilla in the room. This could potentially be an effort to keep his name away from a bandwagon he knows will result in a townie lynch, which is usually what you look for in a day-1 "where'd that come from?" vote.

If 2's correct, it's a smokescreen for idiots. Hence, "give me something substantive you're willing to attach your name to and then I'll talk to you about liamcool".

[deepthought]

Deepthought- The pink gorilla in the room being...? I suspect that you're referring to Liam, but I want to hear these things out of your mouth.

You seem to have avoided talking about me altogether (aside from "Thanatos is slightly scummier than DT"), and surely you realize this looks like you trying to avoid a bandwagon you know is going to turn sour at the end of the day.

[deepthought]

I dont think I'm going to explain what Lord Nikon did. I can't talk for him.

It wouldn't take long if you did anyway.

[deepthought]

Yet, I still think DT will give us the most information for a day 1 kill.

Lynching townies "for information" is kind of silly, I'd say.

Still, if that's that, give me a chance to put together a post sometime tomorrow with some added thoughts.

[deepthought]

If you are Town, I'm sorry, but I made up my mind, and I'll just have to live with it.

...right. :rolleyes:

(Try as you might, you're not going to take DS's spot as the game's official drama queen. If you throw in the towel nobody will mind. Really.)

[deepthought]

I remember you saying several times you don't mind lynching a townie if their dead weight....god forbid we lynch a townie to get some more information and insight (and that's assuming your town, which I doubt).

You're trying to equate two distinct arguments. One says "lynching townies is okay insofar as you miss sometimes when you pick the people most likely to be scum" and one says "lynching townies is okay as long as it gives us information".

And even if you don't see the distinction (I don't feel like bickering around it with you, so do whatever you want), there remains the point that you don't lynch claimed common-strain power roles on day 1 without any counterclaims because

1) Lynching power roles is really dumb, and

2) Assuming you have a fakeclaim, the scum making it is on a short leash until the real <whatever> decides to roleclaim, dies, or is otherwise outed and the town has a nigh-confirmed scum.

Hence all of the early "I'll take my vote off of SK if she claims a power role" talk - on day 1 you take those claims as true until competing evidence pops up.

Anywho, I'd probably still push Infinitive and liamcool, with a few notes on other players:

Jury's out on Insurgent, Thanatos, and DLS. The other points about Thanatos I posted are still relevant, but he's also had just enough out-of-whack ideas lately to be worth keeping an eye on.

Re: DS, one limitation on "too obvious" arguments is that they only work once - you're looking at how players act when they're not on notice and whether their behavior changes in order to allay suspicion, not a blind aggregate of all their posts. DS, for example, begins the game playing mute in the wings, starts tirading immediately after I call him out, and now really really really wants me dead. I'm more concerned with VL's wacky vote that he knows he can't be held accountable for and I'd pick him first, but for many intents and purposes they're interchangeable.

I was going to go more in-depth on a few others, but the two of you that would actually read any of it are smart enough to figure it out. The rest of you, after you play a few more games, will start to see the distinction between calling people out for being wrong and being insulting, and will hopefully get more comfortable stepping back and considering arguments outside your narrow starting assumptions.

Good game; no hard feelings.

[deepthought]

Day 2 started almost a month ago, people.

DO SOMETHING.

[deepthought]

Shut up, Zombie.

I was chatting with someone about something or other and MS came up, and I was like, "yeah I tried playing there in October and nobody liked me and I got lynched d1 " and he was like (as a totally hilarious joke), "they probably aren't even done with d2 yet" and I was like, "hahaha that was a totally hilarious joke" except it was completely true.

Also, brains.

[deepthought]

If you guys were any slower, the game would probably move backwards.