Everyone else is voting so far, so I'm gonna cool my heels and read what people have to say for now. Besides, I got lynched in my last game for trying to figure things out.
Mini 523 - Game Over!
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Infinitive Goon
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Sorry for being quiet, guys; this is only my second game, and I'm trying the "How to be a good townie" strategy from the article someone posted around here. I'm not encouraging other people not to vote, I'm just not going to throw mine at someone until I have a reason to yet.
And yes, I am watching a couple of people, but there's no reason to jump the gun this early. Better to cool your heels and watch than open a possible scum-jump lynch, eh?Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Hey, I got L-1'd on the first page of my first game. Sometimes people just have a brain fart when they're setting the random votes. I'm still not convinced of anything.
The corollary is that I got lynched on the top of page 4, so maybe that just means that my first game was screwy.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Here's the link to the article:
http://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.p ... ood_Townie
And, for the record, I am of the opinion that 3 votes in a game this large does not necessarily make a scum. OTOH, it is somewhat suspicious. For now, I'm willing to write it off, but it did put Shaiann a little higher on the suspicion tree than most.
And I am beginning to realize that I may not be quiet enough to be a good townie right now. Pardon me if I lurk for a day.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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I find this statement to be both confusing and suspicious. Allow me:Dark_Lady_Shaiann wrote: I would have voted for him earlier, but to be honest I didn't even really know he was there until some one else voted for him >_< I just thought it would be kind of on the funny side......
unvote
"I would have voted for him earlier," Earlier than you did? You voted pretty early, but I can buy that explanation, except for...
"But... I didn't even really know he was there until come one else voted for him," Wait a sec. You just said right there that you were going to vote for Nikon regardless, and that other people just beat you to it. Then, in the same sentence, you said that no, it's not your fault, you're just bandwagoning. This is what is known as a contradiction in terms; both of your statements cannot possibly be true.
Dark Lady Shaiann, consider yourself FOS'd-
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Infinitive Goon
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Vamp, did you miss this post?
Infinitive wrote:
I find this statement to be both confusing and suspicious. Allow me:Dark_Lady_Shaiann wrote: I would have voted for him earlier, but to be honest I didn't even really know he was there until some one else voted for him >_< I just thought it would be kind of on the funny side......
unvote
"I would have voted for him earlier," Earlier than you did? You voted pretty early, but I can buy that explanation, except for...
"But... I didn't even really know he was there until come one else voted for him," Wait a sec. You just said right there that you were going to vote for Nikon regardless, and that other people just beat you to it. Then, in the same sentence, you said that no, it's not your fault, you're just bandwagoning. This is what is known as a contradiction in terms; both of your statements cannot possibly be true.
Dark Lady Shaiann, consider yourself FOS'd-
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Infinitive Goon
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I have to agree with Nudude's sentiment. It's gotten very quiet in here of late, and I'd like to hear from several of the lurkers. Not necessarily a defense ro anything, just your thoughts on what's going on.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Be careful a bandwagon doesn't form here, people. If nothing else, it's foolish to become suspicious of someone because they haven't posted recently, and then to lynch them before they say anything about the increasing number of votes against them.
I want to hear from Shotgun Kitten, if at all possible, before we get any closer to a lynch. Right now, I'm still more suspicious of DLS, but SK does need to explain him/herself. OTOH, lunching a possible townie because of impatience is very dangerous.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Serious side: I am agreeing with the general suspicion of Deepthought at the moment. If you pay attention, the logic (s)he uses is frequently specious; HEH has highlighted what I agree are the most out-of-place items he's made. Further, his continuing defense against those accusations are, to me, unsatisfactory. It strikes me that asking for a modkill when a replacement is quite realistic (given that this is day 1) is not exactly a townie move, regardless of which forum you play on.
Sorry, Deepthought, but I'mFOSing you.
Also, DLS, you've kind of ducked under the table as the general strain of discussion has moved along. You have explained yourself adequately, but unless you join the scumhunt again, my suspicion will begin to grow. Do you have any insight into anything at the moment?
And liamcool, please post more. Lurking is no fun for anyone.
On the light side: we seem to be a remarkably levelheaded and calm group of people for a lynch mob. Just an amusing thought.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Sorry for the DP, Gorgon Sarnath'd me.
Gorgon, as a quick question, how (do you feel) that post #101 is townish? There honestly isn't very much in that post at all, much less anything to strongly indicate a town affiliation. I'm not FOSing you or anything, but I'd like to hear your reasoning.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Since a couple of people have asked about my FOSing, I'll explain.
Last game I was in, I threw out my vote early, played actively, and got lynched on page 4 for it. I'm trying a different strategy here; I'll use my FOSs to provoke responses where most would use outright votes. If I FOS you, I feel that your statements and/or actions have been somewhat or suspiciously scummy, but that I am not yet convinced 100% that you're scum. I FOS'd Deepthought this last time for the same reasons as everyone else- asking for a modkill with apparent confirmed knowledge of the town/scum split seemed suspicious to me, and it still does. I wanted and still want to hear more from Deepthought before I vote for him, but he's really done nothing thusfar to assuage my suspicion.
When I do vote, don't expect me to unvote. A vote out of me means I'm pretty well convinced that you're scum.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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I find this back-and-forth interesting.
But.
Here is an observation: the extensive questioning of Deepthought is interesting and educational. Even now, at L-3, he has done nothing to dissuade my suspicion of him. In fact, and you might want to note this, DT, your snippiness is actually deepening my suspicion. However, this conversation mostly includes Deepthought, myself, Hang 'Em High, and Thanatos. DLS and Nudude have each dropped in once, and Gorgon has said a couple of things about the mess. Liam popped up to defend himself but, I don't think, said anything about Deepthought (I'm stuck on observing page 6 right now).
I want to hear from other people, if possible. Hang em High is clearly leading the charge here; if DT is lynched and turns out to be a townie, HeH will jump straight to the top of my suspicion list. That being said, DT's statements are clearly the most suspicious activity thusfar in the game. I'd like to hear what other people are thinking right now in regards to the situation and why. If you have reason to assuage suspicion on DT, where does it come from and why? If you see something incriminating that we've glossed over, would you mind pointing it out for us? If you're ambivalent, what's keeping you on the fence?
Note for the mod: I'm leaving for a D&D convention tonight, and as such my posting will likely be intermittant at best until Monday.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Hokay... I take one 4 hour drive and the game assplodes. Allow me to try and sort things through.
First, in regards to D_S: Please, stop with the ad hominem attacks. It makes the game less pleasant for all of us, and it doesn't actually help us to gain any useful information. If you have any ideas for prodding those you feel are scummy, please by all means do so. However, calling people names only makes us view those you're fighting with in a kinder light.
Second, in regards to Liam: I agree, this seems like a suspicious way of voting for someone. Liam has been pinging my scumdar, so to speak, for a little while, but not in a major way (I'm pretty sure I've been mentioning him before). This vote seems odd; I'll come back to this later.
Thirdly, in regards to Deepthought: Frankly, I don't believe you. For reasons that others have posted, Doc is a very convenient role to claim in an attempt to avoid getting lynched. I'm not familiar with the Bulletproof or Miller roles (I suspect that Bulletproof people don't get shot at night by Mafia or Vigs, but that's just a guess), so I can't comment on your counter that those would make a better scumclaim. Simply put, DT, you're acting like scum, and every claim you've made in your defense makes very, very good sense if you're playing mafia. This leads me to...
Observation:
Deepthought seems rather scummy in general, and it also seems like most of the game agrees on this point. By page 6, in the face of mounting suspicion and a growing bandwagon, Liamcool jumps on "with reservations" and puts DT at L-1. Now, whether Liam is being genuine or not, here's what read I get off of the way he voted: If DT is town, this is, as others have noted, a very good way to jump on the bandwagon while keeping yourself from looking like you're pushing for a lynch. If DT is scum, then this is a great way to deflect potential suspicion in Liam later in the game, as he would have knowingly participated in the lynch of one of his teammates.
If Liam were town, I don't see a reason for, in combination, his lurking, his voting, and his contributions in general. In fact, aside from his vote, I don't think that he has mentioned DT in any way, shape, or form, which would be a good strategy for two scumbuddies.
FOS: Liamcool-
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Infinitive Goon
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Wow... I've kind of had it with this bickering. DLS, DS, you have both participated to make this game suck, as far as I'm concerned. Before the two of you started to bicker, I was having a grand time, and I felt we were getting somewhere. Now the game's a mess and almost everyone but you two, Thanatos, and Deepthought have stopped posting. Screw this. I don't care if I get lynched or anything anymore.
Vote: Deepthought
I've said it before, and I've given my reasons several times over: I'm pretty sure Deepthought is scum. If I'm wrong and he was telling the truth, so be it, but nobody around here is acting scummier, IMHO.
Now I'm going to sit back and wait for the night. If we're lucky, one of the two will get nightkilled to end this damn bickering.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Ok, sorry for the trip post. Allow me to explain.
I hit the quick reply field on page 12, thinking I was on page 13 (when i hadn't read page 13). I had figured that the mod here wasn't going to do anything about the massive bickering that was going on between DLS and DS, and on top of an already terrible day (my D&D module, which premiered today, was ripped to shreds in front of me as I sat there and DM'd it. By the time I left the con, I was pissed and miserable... and last night my favorite character got eaten by an alligator AND the zipper on my pants literally exploded. I shit you not.), I just checked out emotionally. I came back here a little while later to see if anyone else had said anything, and page 13 looked a whole lot different than I had thought it was.
Sigh. Now I'm gonna get lynched for this, I just know it. This weekend can officially go sodomize itself with a chainsaw.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Wow, I really hate this weekend. My PSP is now a fancy, expensive paperweight. I didn't even screw around with the firmware. It's outside of the warranty too; I got it secondhand.
Goddamn it.
Anyway... it seems to me that the proposed strategy regarding DT is thus: Either we lynch him now or lynch him tomorrow. I'm not saying that it's the right thing to do yet, even though I am inclined towards DT over anyone else in the thread (as noted by my rather exasperated previous post). Here are the scenerios I see:
Option 1: We don't lynch Deepthought. In this case, one a couple of things happens: One, he's not scum and the real scum see a claimed doc as being tempting enough to not take any chances (nightkill, which he doesn't seem too worried about, oddly). In this case, we lynched someone else and are down a doc, which is probably (unless we got lucky otherwise) not very good for the long game. Two is that the scum don't take the bait and try to get a fortunate lynch out of us on day two, presenting the town with a classic wine in front of me (<3 Princess Bride) situation where we have little choice other than to lynch him, as he's been scummy in general and survived the night. Three is that he is in fact scum, in which case the solution to possibility two applies, for the same reason.
Option 2: We lynch him. In this case, he's either scum or not, and the Mafia chooses who among us is cutting through the BS best and NK them. On day 2, we're left with some ground-level suspicions on several people for scummy activity, as well as suspicion on myself, Thanatos, and HEH (and POSSIBLY a little Nudude) for spearheading the investigation against Deepthought if he was, in fact, town.
Option 3: We don't lynch Deepthought and then leave him live on day 2; after this point, it is unlikely that he will ever be lynched. If he is actually scum, it will likely lead to a loss for the town. If he's actually a doc, it may prolong the game for a further day if he gets a lucky protect.
I don't really know which option I prefer... I'm not a terribly big fan of option three, if only because the consequences if he's scum are so incredibly high. OTOH, options 1 and 2 are also bad at this point because if he IS doc, despite the scummy read we're getting off him (I dunno, maybe he's played scum in 80% of those games he played on the other site). I'm not sure, but I'm leaning towards action over inaction, especially as I do not yet see a seriously viable alternative (liamcool is an alternative, but it not yet very close to DT on my scumdar).
Someone wanted me to talk about my vote somewhere; sorry, it's midnight after a seriously long day, so I'm not gonna go hunt down. I knew/thought it was L-1 (the post at the top of page 12; I scrolled up, said 5 votes, and I'm just glad nobody voted for him on page 13 or I woulda seriously screwed things up). I said what I said because in both the games I've been in, anyone who puts someone at L-1 on day 1 gets everyone on them like s*** on velcro. Like I said there and said since, I was tired and pissed for several reasons, and didn't think things through as well as I should have before posting.
On a side note, screw high level rangers with Arrows of Slaying at a DC27 Fort or Die. The last combat of my module (D&D adventure) literally ended on the first turn of combat; the guy fired four of those damn arrows into my mounted hobgoblin chargers. The very next person to go Baleful Polymorphed the only remaining person on the field into a small black kitten, which they named Old Wicked (after her god). She even passed the save to retain her mind, but there were two frickin' Fatespinners in the party, and they kept forcing rerolls till she became a kitten in mind and body. Argh.-
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Infinitive Goon
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I'm not a fan of your plan, Thanatos, because I think that Deepthought's analysis is dead on. If DT is actually town, it's a very good move for the scum to NK him. If we have a cop investigate him (and SAY that we're doing so), the scum take their nightkill and get a free roleblock on the cop for a night, as the target of his investigation croaks. Then we're sitting on day 2 with very few leads and a dead doc. That is, of course, if DT escapes the noose. Not the best plan IMHO.
I really think that the cop, whoever (s)he is, should at this point choose a plan of action carefully and not tell anyone about it ahead of time. If the scum know what the cop is gonna do, they can work around it. If he has to claim later, okay. I don't care for the cop-for-a-scum trade one bit, but if we can lynch a scum today, it might be worth it.
And remember the part where I mentioned Fatespinners at the table? Yeah, when there are three fatespinners using all their spin up on save-or-die effects, the game ends awfully quickly. In addition to that, the arrows were crafted and carried around by a specialist Necromancer with GSF in that school, to be handed out to whatever archer-y type he happened to bump into. Since they only cost the guy 50 gold apiece to make...Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Gorgon, in response to your theories about the cop... I don't like the idea of him coming forward on day 2 (presuming he finds a scum), especially if we didn't lynch a scum; that leave us with, presuming Deepthought's stated rations are correct, 2 scum left and pretty much certainly no cop. I'd much rather the cop note that he's found scum and keep hunting, then post who at the last possible moment (either in lynch or lose or when he's found all the scum, or when he's about to be lynched by the town anyway). Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a better deal for the town than the cop suiciding on d2.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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I feel uncomfortable saying this (j/k), but... I agree with Deepthought for once.
Liam has been rather scummy and flew right under my radar. He seems, to me, to be about as scummy as Deepthought is. However, I'm going to stick on DT for the moment because, given that the two of them are more or less equally scummy in my eyes, there is rather more public scrutiny on DT right now.
I WOULD really like a cop investigation of either or both of them, but I suspect that I'm probably not going to get my wish.
As a final note, I agree that we need to step away from cop strategising and figure out who the lynch target is going to be. I haven't really seen any new information pop up in the past several pages, so it might be time to make our choice, and then use that information to move forward (if nothing else). This is, of course, contingent upon the presumption that nobody else is getting any useful information that I've missed; if so, I'd really like to hear it.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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I think he's bluffing too.
Problem is, as I go back and read some of his posts since he claimed doc, I'm getting a weird read off of him. I don't want to say anything right now because it goes against everything I've said thusfar in the game, but I just wanna give people the heads up that i need time to stew for a bit.
I'm pretty sure he's not doc tho.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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I know, I know. Mostly, I'm trying to decide whether to vote for Liam or DT right now. I'm just about certain that DT is scum, except for one nagging thing at the back of my head. The problem is, I've heard several times about people getting very close to being lynched day 1, getting passed, and then not getting lynched even when they should because people feel reluctant to start the bandwagon up again. As I'm 90% sure that DT is scum at this point, I don't want him getting away if he is.
Okay, here's the thought at the back of my head, and apologies if I screw anything up or whatever. For this to work, we have to presume that DT is town and liam is scum (which is, as I've noted above, only a possibility). Now, what if he's a generic Townie, with no power whatsoever? Further, he gets a read on someone scummy (Liam), and pushes on him, pointing out to the rest of us that he IS scummy, while at the same time making himself look a little suspect. Then, as a bandwagon forms, he roleclaims Doc at the very first opportunity presented to him, a maneuver that, with his experience, he knows will make the town reluctant to lynch him on day 1. On the other hand, he's pushing for another scummy person and has claimed Doc, so the scum almost HAVE to nightkill him on night 1. If we've lynched Liam, then we're one scum down and have lost only a generic Townie, while almost-but-not-quite roleblocking the Scum kill for that night. The downside to the plan? If we lynch DT, the town has in reality lost only a generic Townie, not the doc, and the scum have to scramble come nightfall to figure out who to shoot.
This is something that I wouldn't even think of for a less experienced players, but the thread seems to have confirmed that DT is more or less the most experienced player in this game. Sorry to start confusion up, but his posts since about page 12, while not very good at allaying suspicion, have been troublingly good at pointing out discrepancies, and that just seems out of place for a scum player.
Like I said, it's something that's been niggling at the back of my head. It might just be a very good scum ploy to survive a day.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Frankly, I agree. I have reservations about letting DT off today, but after re-reading posts a few times, Liam seems to be more genuinely scum. Further, DT has done what appears to be genuine scumhunting, while Liam has only leveled accusations and/or votes against everyone that calls him out on shifty behavior.
DT might be scum. I'm pretty sure he's a liar. But I'm dead sure that Liam is both.
Vote: Liamcool-
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TBH, I was looking to cast my vote last page. As I've noted in my past couple of posts, something just doesn't strike me as being right in regards to DT at the moment. Further, the town has a plan to deal with him on a going-forward basis and, finally, he seems to be participating quite actively in the general scumhunt. He's said and done scummy things (which we've thoroughly hashed through), and I am still suspicious of him.
But, frankly, Liam's been shiftier, less helpful to the scumhunt, and much more random. We're on page 18-19 on day one, and there really hasn't been any movement anywhere recently.
I noted before that I'd sit around asking questions and FOSing people until I was as sure as I could be that I knew someone was scum, and then I'd vote for him. As I noted above, I'm pretty sure that DT is scum, but after examining Liam, I'm really sure he's scum (or acting like it for some unfathomable reason).
To clarify, I'm not trying to form a bandwagon here, nor jump on one. Check my posts on the last page or page and a half- I've been debating Liam and DT for a while (and my last post specifically said that i was going to sleep on the choice and post in the morning). I can conceive of a reason for DT to act as he has been (even if that reason is somewhat silly, if possible). I can't conceive of a reason for Liam to act the way he is. If you have any questions at all regarding this whole mess of text, I'll be more than happy to answer; I know that 2 posts in a row voting for someone looks suspicious, but I felt it would be equally suspicious/disingenuous to artificially delay posting my vote once I'd decided on it.
BTW: Insurgent, welcome to the game; if you could throw out a few more posts so I could get a better idea of who you are, I'd appreciate it. Dropping in late for someone who posted what, 2 times (?) makes you kind of the invisible man. More info, please!-
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I'm on the list for an examination over DT. I may not have voted for him in the end, but I was pushing hard all through day 1, and I frequently questioned his roleclaim.
2 nightkills is very bad tho. I think the most likely possibility is Scum & Serial Killer, but there could be some weird bizarro double-mafia kill.
Regardless, if it's one town lynch per day and two whatever kills per night, we have very little leeway. Time for careful consideration, IMHO. If we mislynch again, it could very easily be lynch or lose.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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I'm right there with Gorgon's analysis on this- Hang 'em High, out of everyone playing the game, was pretty much the only one that everyone could agree wasn't scum. Especially with him getting back into the game after the flamewar, I would guess that he'd be THE likely target for a scumkill.
I had forgotten about vig's, and a vig kill seems to be a decent explanation for Insurgent's death; Lord Nikon was a hardcore lurker, and Insurgent didn't really post anything about his thoughts before the day ended; that might have been taken for a scummy person, rather than one that just hadn't caught up through all the pages we had waded through. I really hope we've got a vig out there, rather than a SK.
Okay, continuing thoughts on various people that need to be examined:
Liamcool: for all the stuff that we were talking about yesterday; we now know that DT was town, and he was MAJORLY suspicious of Liam. I think Liam deserves going over with a magnifying glass, but that's just me.
Me: I pushed hard on the DT bandwagon, and even though I backed out at the end, the fact remains that I didn't buy any of DT's explanations till it was too late.
Thanatos: Thanatos kind of took over the lead on the bandwagon from HEH when he dropped into the game. From there, he posited a number of theories that turned out to be false, all of which served to make DT look scummy. I think Than deserves a very close examination.
Disciple Slayer: For someone who's posted so frequently, I can find very little to any of his posts aside from bluster or accusations that are based on things other people have already said. This is someone who, I feel, is not really helping the scumhunt. It's worth looking at him. To paraphrase Darth Vader, I find his lack of content disturbing.
Nudude: I've been getting a vaguely scummy vibe off of this guy for a while now, and I can't quite put my finger on why. It may be in part because he's rarely been voting for or doing anything that anyone else is doing, but I can't remember when Nudude has ever been at the center of anything, really. Again, though, this is mostly impressions, so feel free to ignore me on this one.
People I feel ambivalent about:
Gorgon: A big part of me wants to say that he probably isn't scum, just because he's been hunting so hard, and has made calls that have been, in retrospect, quite good. However, another part of me wants to say that if he WERE scum, those same predictions would be very easy to make, and would put him in a favorable light. I'm not sure what to do on this one, other than wait for more info.
DLS: She's lurked ever since the flamewar; despite the fact that she seemed to clear herself a while ago, the fact that she's just lying low and watching makes me wonder whose team she's playing for.
In regards to the Thanatos asking to be looked at, I am in fairness doing the same thing, Gorgon. I can't speak for Thanatos, but I am putting myself on the list of people to be looked at because of what i did do, and because not putting myself on a list of people that pushed for DT's lynching would be scummy. I have no fear of people reading my previous posts. It MAY be that Than is of a similar mind, but it may also be something else.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: October 4, 2007
Uhh... Than, I think you just voted for yourself. Maybe you messed up on the vote tags? Just an observation.
And Charter, I keep neglecting to put you on lists because you somehow manage to fly under my radar no matter what you do. I think this is the third time I've had to do a double-take to realize you're even in the game. Maybe an avatar would help that some. Anyway, Charter probably deserves some examination for his participation in the bandwagon, but I honestly can't remember a thing he's done. I need to go back and read some more before I start pushing people again.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: October 4, 2007
Ok, just for the collective info, I'm going to assemble PBPAs for the four people I listed in my last big post (Nudude excepted, because I'm running on a vibe there, not really any real info yet) and post my thoughts attached to those. They'll be up in a bit.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: October 4, 2007
Well, this took way the hell longer than I thought. As such, I just compiled the first 9 pages of posts from the various and sundry people involved; I edited out the flamewar and anything that seemed utterly unrelated to the actual playing of the game (such as talking about House, the TV show) Thanatos/Shotgun Kitten is up first:
Okay, here's my impressions. SK was basically a submarine; she surfaced twice then disappeared forever. Then Thanatos burst onto the board and quickly took over the DT bandwagon from Hang 'em High. He originally published the primary justification that most of the bandwagon gave for disbelieving DT's Doc claim. Later, he goes and proposes plans for a day 2 lynch of DT if everyone decided to pass on him for day 1. He also called for a plan on the town cop. (Later bits of this were after the quoted posts.)(Shotgun Kitten):
Vote:Lord Nikon
Sorry. Started a new job. Work 40 some odd hours a week. By the time I get home Dad's on the computer...so I can post once or twice in the mornings, and that's about it. So sorry for the slowness guys.
(Thanatos):
Hello Everyone. This is my first game on Mafia scum, though I've played quite a few games on other places in the past. I'm glad I managed to get into such a small and fresh game so quickly. So, I suppose I should hop right into it with a page by page...Now then, let me see...
1. hmm. It's interesting that I see a weird relationship between Nudude and charter. It's true that moving her vote like that was awkward, but I wonder if he's looking too strongly for evidence. Then again, scum would, likely, want to lie low in the random voting phase, though I suppose the best ones try to take charge. Dark Lady's vote is pretty awkward as well...
2. Eh, kind of an uneventful resolution to the previous pages mini-drama. Deepthought shares my opinion, it seems, though his argument was a little off the mark.. I'm starting to both love and hate Nudude for his somewhat overly poetic language. It amuses me. It also makes me suspect him a little more and a little less, for the same reason. Mainly, it makes him hard to read. which means, A. I could easily misread him, and B. he could be using it as a cover.
"Is it coincidence that your comment comes after I propose we start having a look at lurkers?" Oh, I missed that one. FOS Deepthought
Gorgon, it should be obvious that scum, more than townies at least, would not want a vote, giving them a free night. It's true that they want votes on townies, but that's mostly a distraction to by time with as well as speed up something that is mostly carried out by the Mafia. Charter's story bugged me..can we get a link to that game to confirm it?
*sigh* long page, that was. I'll continue in the next post.
Page 3: Funny and Random arn't mutually exclusive. Nudude backed down, but that's a really odd string to pull. H'emH's comment about Nik's responce to D_L_S's vote (*pause for breath*) was really over the top, I think, since it should have been an obvious joke. Deepthought's vote on well, me, is annoying since it looks to me like he's trying to push a bandwagon on a lurker. Remember, she herself said she couldn't come often, so the lurking itself isn't suspicious. It's the reaction to the lurking. Of course, I know what her role is, so I guess that helps. *shrug*
Oh wait, SK didn't have any votes at the time. I thought she did. Nevermind. Still, my point on what's going on here is valid, I think. H'emH's vote, however, seems to be exactly what I thought Deepthoughts vote was. FOS
Oh, but I thought it was 5 to kill, not seven. That lessens it quite a bit.
Page 4: I am liking DLS's response to her accusation. If she is Mafia, she's not new. Most would panic at least a little.
Well, since it looked like SK never responded, I guess I should try and explain her actions, but I really can't. She most likely did a random vote and then had to leave the game. Hopefully, my own activeness will dissolve your suspicions of her, since she obviously didn't have the time for this game regardless of her role.
Liamcool's post was downright stupid. and Scummy. I mean, why waste your lynch on people just because your annoying. Mini's don't usually get more than 3 votes. Deepthought ignores this fact, which I thought was obvious...
Page 5:Nudude has pushed me further onto Deepthought.
Disciple going along with this plan, without adding to it, makes him look scummy, I think.
All I can say about this page is that it strengthen my feelings about Deepthought. I'll vote for him if he's not in danger of a lynch.
Page 6: And he's Not. I'll put him at L-3, though I would recommend against bringing it any higher than that for now. Vote:DeepThought for recommending Modkill, not speaking against Liam's plan to kill off all the lurkers, and obviously irritated reasponce.
Oh, and I also like Infinitive's explanation.
Oh, I should sum up my Opinions, Shouldn't I?
Dark_Lady_Shaiann: Seems innocent enough, so long as she doesn't slink back into the corner now that the heat is down. Neither Obvious townie nor FOS'd.
deepthought: I voted for him. Nuff said.
Hang 'em High: Is drawing my other FoS, but I'm not as suspicious as he once was to me. Still, I need to keep my eye on him.
Disciple Slayer: No clear reads, though his last post is disconcerting.
Liamcool: He fits the bill of a Scum Lurker pretty perfectly. He's here, but not often, and his posts don't accomplish much. And trying to get people to kill the Lurkers is odd, to say the least. If the DT bandwagon dies, I'll look at him next.
Lord Nikon: MIA.
Infinitive: I'm getting a good vibe from him.
Nudude: Same for him, but...it's almost too good. It's hard to describe the feeling I get from him, it's almost like...I think he's acting like I would if I was scum. Too in control. Still, he's under the protown list for now.
VampyreLord: Not sure yet.
Gorgon: Leaning to pro-town, but not certain by a long shot.
charter: I still want a link to the game you mentioned early on. If it checks out, I'll probably consider you Pro-Town
So there you go. Now then, introductions are over. Let the dance begin!
Not at all, actually. I've seen it happen quite a bit, after someone screws up, everyone turns on him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Though your right, we can't vote for you just because we disagree, and your right that 3 is the standard. However, more than just disagreeing with your views on modkills, I find it downright Scummy. Theres more to the vote than that, but don't say I'm voting for you because of a simple difference of opinion.
Well, DT, let me ask you a question. What benefit does the town get from a random Modkill. Worse, what do they get by doing all but wasting a lynch as Liam suggested (and you seemed to help incite after he suggested it). We know how it helps Scum. How does it help US?
I don't think there is a reasonable reason (<_<) for you to do that. That is why I voted for you.
I saw this, and didn't ignore it. I just didn't really care.
Isn't it kind of unfair of you the claim that you should be let off the hook on the excuse that you learned to play differently? I suppose it explains your actions, which is why I wouldn't want you voted off right now anyways, but it still doesn't completely clear you...Most than anything, you've still failed to respond to my question. What does it do for the Town?
Fine then. It's a difference of opinion. My opinion is that someone you says that is acting in a way that helps the scum.
just so I understand completely, how does it play off of peoples unwillingness to kill off lurkers?
DT: hmm..alright then. Nothing i can really say one way or another at the moment.
Infinitive: Actually, I was just thinking that I wanted to hear Nudude's opinion on this.
I disagree. On the chance that DT is actually giulty, I'm willing to bet that new imput from other people will make or break the bandwagon...Besides, I don't see any other strong leads at the moment, to be honest. Except for Liam, but even that I don't consider strong at the moment.
LN's vote on the first page? I thought it was obviously a joke vote. No more, no less.
As for the other thing, you're right, it's not really pertinent to the discussion. That said, I take back what I said to this particular situation, as he wasn't arguing for no vote, he was just not voting himself. Not really scumy. Actually, it's a stupid scum move, but thats just WIFOM...
I disagree on moving on from DT on the basis that we've hit a dead end.
Charter: Thanks. Seems to look good enough.
Oh, and on a side note, I hate to ask this, but are you male or female? I ask because your name reminds me of Carter, a girl, so I apply that gender to you, and It's kinda baseless, but confusing for me.
And frankly, DT has been quite irritable lately. Of course, when prodded, I find it difficult to remain completely cool, so this doesn't really mean anything. DS, don't vote him because of an attitude. Vote him for completely different reasons.
*sigh* I don't want a lynch like that, DS. What have I been saying? Lets not lynch a guy for his attitude, lets lynch him for being scummy. That said, the evidence does seem to be beginning to pile...
unvote Cool it, kiddos. I don't want a lynch on the first day. I want more time to think. If nothing else, get a roleclaim out of him before you kill. (and frankly, I think it's too soon for that as well)
It's not that Deepthought hasn't done alot to make me suspicious, but this is moving way too fast.
Interesting claim..it makes me happy I unvoted. Not because I believe you, but it's sure to spice things up enough to get a clear answer.
Awsome. I wasn't the only one. He just claimed Doc.
Don't assume he's telling the truth.
Vote:Deepthought
L-2 is good for now. (yes, I will add and remove my vote as needed to keep it around there)
All I can say is that Doc is one of the best claims a scum can make. I want to see what happens for now.
Oh, sure it is. Millers arn't usually told they are such, and I've never even heard of a bulletproof, but a Doc...well, thems a standby of mafia, arn't they?
Good false claims would be vig, cop, and doc, and maybe some others if I've forgotten. Of those three, Doc is the best. Vig will stop and make people think, but come night, there either is no vig, or you're shot dead. Cop is perfect, unless you're counterclaimed and then its a quick night and the real cop gets a medic...
But claiming Doc...people want to believe it, because a Doctor is thier protection. Even though this is a team game, nobody wants to die. It ends their fun. The fear of losing a doc, maybe even more than a cop, is enough to freeze all but the most hardy of bandwagons. But the best part, even if your counterclaimed, the scum have an easy kill the following night. It's a win/win.
How can you detect lies if you don't ask him questions?
Besides, I hope I havn't given the impression that I do not think he is the Doc. I'm saying I'm not ready to take his word for it. It is quite possible for him to be lying.
He's at L-2, first of all.
I wanted to know what his claim is. That does not excuse or condemn him in any way. I didn't even ask him for a role claim, as you should recall.
Either way, he gave it, and I explained to him why it does not clear him. What did I do that was wrong there?
alright. I'm calling it quits for the night (and I want to get other peoples input anyways) but just so we're all clear on what I've been saying for the past page..
1. He claimed before I even mentioned him claiming.
2. When I mentioned it, I was not calling for him to do so, but for the people who had him at L-1 to get a claim out of him first, and I didn't think it was a great plan anyways.
3. When he claimed, I never claimed he was a lier.
4. My responce to D_L_S's unvote was that she shouldn't just believe him because he says so. I also claim that Doc is a good Scum claim. DT disagees.
5. I give my reasons, namely the inability of a doc to safely counterclaim and the psychological security a Doc brings.
This is what I have said tonight. I hope that I have not been misunderstood, and that people do not put words into my mouth.
I find this rather interesting; Thanatos has clearly been a leader, and the choices he's called for have all turned out to be to the detriment of the town. The cop plan, in particular, would have been an excellent orchestration to roleblock the town cop for a night as the scum nightkilled DT, which would have very likely happened.
As an impression, Thanatos could be acting in a classic false-leader role (and one that won my other game): by pretending to lead the town's scumhunt, he can carefully direct the efforts of most of the town to be at best marginally successful, and confuse any lynches/vigs/cops/SKs into acting against the town's best interest.
Thanatos could have been acting in earnest throughout all this. However, I'm seeing too many coincidences in this chain of events ATM.
FOS: Thanatos-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: October 4, 2007
Vote Count
Thanatos (1) - Gorgon
Not Voting (8) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Thanatos, Disciple Slayer, liamcool, Infinitive, Nudude, VampyreLord, charter
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Second up is Disciple Slayer:
As should be evident, there's very little here, compared to Thanatos' postings, despite a 3 1/2 page head start. DS seems to move around a lot, and never gives more than a little justification for any of his FOS's or Votes. From the very beginning, he seems very argumentative, almost as if he's looking to pick a fight, and when DLS finally engages him, he escalated it very quickly (though she's to blame as well for the flamewar). He repeatedly demands that we ignore distractions, while issuing a few himself.vote = Lord Nikon
charter, better post an explanation fast.
FOS: charter
I don't know what to think of Lord Nikon/Dark Lady Shaiann yet.
Speaking of inactivity, I'm going to be away for three days.
unvote VampyreLord
FOS ShotgunKitten for voting Lord Nikon for no reason and for not talking much.
Ho-hum. Need more information here.
Gave Charter an FOS because I didn't like how he voted me. OMGUS voted VampyreLord. I really can't say which of the two seem more suspicious at the moment. I was waiting for Shotgun_Kitten and Lord Nikon to post before posting more.
Go stuff yourself. I'm not still clinging to that. I was asked why I gave you a FOS and I explained. Give me a break.
If not, SK's dead weight at best and I don't mind lynching her.
/quote]
Why is dead weight better than a possible townie/pro-town powah role?
I really don't like deepthought's attitude. That alone pisses me off. I tend to agree with HeH when he talks about how deepthought wanted to modkill lurkers and how he said he knew that there were three mafia in the game.
deepthought, why don't you come up with some good rebuttals instead of being an asshat about it? I'm giving you another chance. For now,
FOS deepthought
Vote: deepthought
Go to hell. I've had it with you.
@deepthought: Nice attempt to label valid arguments and suspicions as a bandwagon. Just so you know, I always vote assholes first.
It means that in addition to his suspicious activities, he is also an asshole. Therefore he gets my vote.
Did I forget? No. Did the others post them already? Yes. Nice try at skirting the issue.
Actually, I think that is a good idea.
DT, what role are you, exactly? I want you to roleclaim. I think others do too.
unvote
How in the world did we get such a belligerent doc? Hahah, unvote for now.
You want more clarification? Let me give you an example.
Person A and Person B are both suspicious. Person A is an asshole. Person B is not. Guess who gets my vote.
Just because I ask for a claim doesn't mean I'm going to believe it right away.
Take another example, because you seem stupid tonight.
Person A claims he can walk on water. Should I believe him without seeing any proof?
I can provide pictorial evidence showing that I am, indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ and savior of mankind and it wouldn't do shit in this game. Once again, stop trying to skirt the issues at hand. Deal with it directly and don't try distractions. I still don't want to put you at L-1, but I want some good answers soon and you're not providing them.
FLAMEWAR EDITED OUT
I find this to be suspicious; it could be a scum ploy engineered to get people annoyed with him, but to also give the impression that he's being too highly reactive and thoughtless with his actions to deserve real scrutiny. Alternately, his votes, FOS's, and words speak for himself. There's very little content here for the actions he takes. I'm not sure if I think that DS is scum, but he hasn't seemed to do us much good.-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: October 4, 2007
And now, Liam:
Right. You all know that I am and have been suspicious of Liamcool. FWIW, DT was as well. I find it very interesting that Liam attached himself to every nascent bandwagon that the town formed, and hedged each one of his votes with a caveat. When the DT bandwagon began to pick up, he spoke fairly strongly against DT, but never gave any original reasons of his own, and never really pushed anyone what wasn't already being prodded by others. Later on, he was highly reactive, and FOSd at least one or two people for prodding and voting him.Vote: Charter
Might as well get on a bandwagon, I suppose, considering we really don't have anything to go on yet.
Actually, in regards to your post, Nudude, it's made me kinda suspicious about Infinitive. Not wanting people to vote means the scum get an obvious advantage. Yes, I know, this probably doesn't make a ton of sense, but eh.
If people don't vote, the people who are voted against can't defend themselves (because they're not voted for, obviously), and then the town doesn't have as much information as they might possibly have.
Question (which may show my ignorance): How many Mafia are there? Do we know?
Couldn't we just vote the people who aren't posting at all out or something, if it's bugging you all that much?
@laimcool. You haven't really done any scumhunting and I'd like your opinion. Who do you find most suspicious? Why?
Based off the last page or so (the new conversation), I have a fairly strong suspicion (about 60%) or so that deepthought is scum. He seems to want Shotgun Kitten to be killed rather than replaced, which is kinda suspicious. Also, he apparently knows that there are three mafia. He stated that with a lot of convinction and knowledge. For all we know, this might be a non-standard game with 2 or 4 mafia, or even a bastard mod game with screwed up roles. Highly unlikely for the second instance though.
Not neccesarily. Speculating might bring up more conversation which brings up more leads which helps uncover scum, which i highly suspect you to be right now.
I know, I don't have many leads right now but I'm trying the best that I can.
Unvote: Charter
FOS: Deepthought
Okay, it seems blaringly obvious due to his nature and all the evidence piling up. I'm probably going to regret this, but I'm going to join on the bandwagon..
Vote: deepthought
Simply put, Liam reeks of sloppy scum to me. He was on the DT bandwagon, though he didn't lead it. He never contributed anything new to the conversation. He hasn't really offered any defense of his statements or actions since coming under scrutiny.
FOS: Liamcool:-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Joined: October 4, 2007
Aaaaand, Charter:
Okay, this is kind of interesting. Like Thanatos, he's on the DT bandwagon, and he buys Than's ati-docclaim argument. However, he contributes to the scumhunt in addition to being a follower, and later confronts Thanatos on his cop-investigation plan. He pushed DT for info, then considers it, probably more than most of the rest of us did and, though I wince to say this, certainly more than I did. He's skeptical of the initial bandwagon-forming on DT, and it's only DT's own admission of a considered fake copclaim that puts him on.vote deepthought
never fails! (With a d12 random roll)
Where did I say I don't really care who we lynch? I most certainly do care, I want to lynch scum. However, in case you haven't noticed, none of the people I've voted for were in any danger whatsoever of being lynched.
I don't really find Infinitive not voting to be that suspicious. It doesn't look like he's anti lynch, just anti random voting.
Yeah, I put someone at L-1 because I wasn't thinking and I was the prime suspect for scum for the rest of the game. (when I was in fact the cop)
I agree with you Nudude, that we need people to post regardless of if they have something to post about, else we won't ever find scum. However, I don't think you have to vote if there isn't someone you wish to vote for, but you should be looking for someone to vote for.
Where am I "sticking up for" let alone even talking about/with Dark lady shaiann? I don't see where Infinitive does this either. Care to explain your statement?
There's nothing saying quiet people are good townies. Quiet people can also make good scum, and vocal people can make good townies.
I really think you guys are making too big of deal over this. I think it's enough to say the vote was random because she didn't have any information to base it off of. If there's a reason, totally unrelated to the game, I think that's just as random as rolling a dice.
That's a good way of putting it. I'm trying to learn from my past mistakes. I'm not quite sure I want to vote for vampyrelord, but if his explanation isn't good I might be inclined to.
Perhaps I can help prod SK into contributing.
unvote disciple slayer
vote shotgun kitten
I'm merely voting for SK to try and get him/her to talk. When they post something (assuming it doesn't give me a reason to keep my vote on them) I'll most likely take it off.
I agree, a bandwagon when we have nothing to go on is a terrible idea.
It's quite difficult. We have SK and lord nikon who haven't posted in entirely too long.
I don't get this. You need more information about what? About who you think is scum. This sentence confuses me a lot and is unacceptable as your only post in a long time.
I don't really see how my voting on you because it took you three posts to put up a random vote (a joking vote on you in case it wasn't obvious) makes me suspicious. Also, this all happened in the first couple of posts. I don't like how you're still clinging to that. It seems like a very weak argument to say the least.
I don't like how you vote for liamcool and then immediately make a new post after unvoting him and then voting deepthought. Personally, I would have kept my vote on liamcool and just stated the reasons why you suspect deepthought. I think its very suspicious that you are switching your vote around like this this far into day one.
I don't think deepthought is scum. I think he has some seriously flawed views of what's good for the town, but he isn't really arguing them and trying to convince us that he's right, which I would expect scum to do. Also, I think it would be too obvious if he's scum and he's saying we want a mod kill. He would have to know that all fingers are going to point to him afterward, and I don't think he'd draw attention to himself like that if he was scum.
liamcool on the other hand, I am getting a scum feeling towards. I have to go now, so I'll finish my thoughts on him when I get a chance (few hours from now hopefully).
With deepthoughts last post, my view towards him has changed, so most of my last post isn't necessarily true anymore.
He seems fairly adament that we get rid of her by any means necessary. I think this is dumb because we have virtually no information on her, and I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that she's scum based on almost nothing. It certainly isn't enough for me to lynch someone on. All I can go by is probabilities, and there's a greater chance, she is in fact, a townie.
liamcool is here and participating, but not helping the town out any. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that he is scum. I think he's purposely not joining the discussion very much, because he hasn't said he's been busy in real life.
HEH, makes sense.
I agree with gorgon. If you weren't scum, you would have said something like there's probably a 75% chance she's town. You however, said definitively there's a 75% chance she's town. No one in the town, other than mafia, would know this.
Regardless of what the percent chance she's town is, I still can't imagine a townie would want her flat out killed, when you can continue to play the game (to a certain extent) without her. So what if she's mafia? There's probably two more other ones out there that we can find and lynch instead.
Since SK is getting replaced,
unvote shotgun kitten
You pretty much reiterated what everyone else has already deduced. Still haven't been actively looking for scum, just latching onto other people's suspicions.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5939
I just completely didn't think anyone could be close to a lynch when I made my vote because I made like the forth vote overall. A mistake I'm not going to make again (why I ask for vote counts and 'did I add these right?' before I vote) because we spent a while arguing over it when I was the cop and didn't need any extra attention.
How were you so positive SK was scum that you wanted her to be modkilled? She had like two posts and neither said anything. I had no inkling as to whether she was town or scum. Wouldn't you rather try and find and lynch another scum who you can be more sure about?
@mod, I'm currently not voting for anyone thought I'm leaning heavily towards liamcool because I don't believe he's helped the town out at all.
Nudude wrote:
Ok, my thoughts.
deepthought, I believe everyone is aware lynching a townie D1 is not the end of the world, however we want to do everything in our power to make sure we nail scum if we can.
You've made it quite clear that it's not really a big deal to you if we lynch scum or town on the first day. Now to be fair, if a lynch turns up townie that does give us more insight into who is scum. We can better analyse the lynched townie thoughts and know for 100% that it was a townie's thoughts, and who pushed for the lynch ie. who seemd to know they were lynching a townie? So yes, I'm willing to concede it isn't game breaking.
Completely agree with this. This, to me, means "I'm mafia. I'm going to roleclaim to try and save myself. The fact that he was thinking of impersonating the cop is ridiculous to me. There's no possible way lynching you is the wrong course of action. In all likelyhood, you're scum, because you're doing a great job of acting like it. If you are a townie. I highly doubt you're the doctor, and you're lying to the rest of us, and you'll make the town self destruct.
I wasn't really thinking you were scum until you posted that. I don't really believe the claim, and I certainly don't think you're a townie.
vote deepthought
Simply put, Charter hasn't even blipped on my scumdar this whole game; hence the fact that he keeps escaping my notice. He seems to be the right mix of asking questions and following others' lead that I would think is indicative of a vanilla townie. Maybe this reflects poorly on me, but I just don't see any real reason to suspect Charter right now.-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: October 4, 2007
DLS, if you have suspicions, voice them. If nothing else, closer examination of anyone can't be bad for the town. Given the history between you two, I'd go out of my way to be polite about it tho.
I, for one, will look at any evidence or theories that anyone posts about anyone. We're in a bit of a spot at the moment, and more discussion is a good thing.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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- Posts: 140
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Please, DLS, post what you think. The game is stalling a little bit right now, and if your thoughts are not damning on their own, we'll question DS and see how he responds. So long as you don't pick a fight, I don't think he will this time, since Numenorean has stated that another fight between you two would be a Bad Thing.
I mean, I went and posted pretty comprehensive stuff on four different people, and it's garnered like 2 paragraphs of discussion. If that's not gonna spark something, let's see someone else go for it.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Okay, Thanatos, I think it's pretty clear right now that the most troubling factor against you is your suggestion for the use of the cop on night 1. Even on day 1, a chorus of us were arguing against it because it was simply bad tactics, and I think we can say now that it would have been quite bad for the town had the cop agreed to it; DT would have almost certainly been nightkilled and the investigation wasted. Further, if you ARE scum, it would have been a very good way to stall the cop out for a night, and prevent him/her from investigating any scum.
In short, you proposed a plan whose only beneficiary, as far as I can see, would be the scum.
I would greatly appreciate an extended conversation about the thought process that lead up to the formulation of that plan, and why you stuck with it even after several people, myself included, told you why it was a bad idea to plan out the cop's investigation in public.
I'm not saying i think you're scum yet, Than, but you've proposed and spearheaded several things that would have/have benefited the scum.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Sorry for double posting.
Liam and DS, would you mind responding to the thoughts I posted about you guys in my PBPA above? I was somewhat condemnatory therein, and I'd like to see what you have to say in rebuttal.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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I'm not trying to make you into a false messiah Than, but exchange places with me- if you saw me lead a charge like you did that turned out so bad, wouldn't you want a healthy discussion on the matter?
Speaking of which, would someone else please post regarding SOMETHING? I feel all on my lonesome out here.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.
Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.
I voted for Liam because, as the day progressed, my suspicion of DT was gradually and progressively reduced. Part of my suspicion was based on DT's kind of not-defending-himself, but rather doing other things (like scumhunting which, in retrospect, was the right thing to do). Part of it was based on his belligerance, which I'm now pretty sure was based on him being DT. And most of it was based on the scumhunting he did; as I went back and re-read peoples' posts, his stuff made sense to me. I still thought he was likely scum, but by the time we were winding to the end of day 1, I felt he was not the scummiest person in the game, so I didn't vote for him. As my vote post said, I was pretty sure DT was scum, but I was dead sure that Liam was. As has been shown to be the case, I was wrong in regards to DT, and I'm glad I didn't vote for him (except on the day where I got eaten by a crocodile, but I revoked that as soon as I calmed down).
I'm going to come right out and say it here: I jumped on the DT bandwagon too early and didn't start to listen to his explanations until far too late. Along with Thanatos, I pushed pretty hard on that whole mess for a good long while. This is the first time I've made it to day two, and I'm trying to be rather more careful now before I jump any bandwagons; this is why I'm questioning people about their scumminess before I start pushing Liam again- I'd like to hear about other people before what will likely be the day 2 bandwagon forms (because I'm still certain that Liam is scum, but that only gives us one out of however many scum are out there).
I'm trying to push Thanatos here because he is and has acted as a leader for the town, and the potential fallout if he's scum could be catastrophic. As such, I wanna try to either condemn or clear him before we move on, for reasons I have listed above.
Is that clear enough?Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Okay, sorry for the absence, but my family's Thanksgiving kinda assploded all over me. There's something else going on, but I don't feel comfortable discussing it on a public message board. Sorry.
Anyway, the corollary to that is that I came home and got to read the last page and a half in one fell swoop. If anybody else out there feels like it, give it a swing, because a couple of things stick out to me.
First is that, as DS has noted, Than and DLS are acting a bit odd, compared to how they normally have behaved. Whether that is a result of either being hammered on repeatedly by DS or because they're scumbuddies is up to anyone's interpretation, but it's certainly worth noting.
However, the really interesting thing to me here is the progression of Disciple Slayer's rhetoric over the past little bit. For someone who has made a reputation for himself of posting short, inflammatory posts, DS has suddenly busted out with a few very verbose, aggressive quote-and-analysis posts and several accusations. I'm quite happy that he's working with quotations now and giving a more in-depth view of his thought process, but I just can't yet agree with the accusations he's levying or with the assumptions he's making.
One thing that really sticks out to me is that he claims that a Thanatos lynch is imminent when there's only 2 votes on the man. I don;t know why he said something like this, because it is on its face untrue as of now; I don't feel anywhere near comfortable enough in any spread of information to vote as of now, even on Liam, who I have talked about previously. Pushing for a quick lynch after a bad day 1 seems very odd to me, and DS seems to be trying to form up a bandwagon right now. Makes me wonder why.
Another interesting connection that DS has made is a possible connection between DLS and Thanatos, and his reasoning behind that also seems rather odd to me. As I recall, DLS was the only person not voting for anyone on day 1, and most of her activity in the thread was directed at DS. OTOH, Thanatos was an active part of the DT lynch, and had very little to do with DS. Neither DLS or Than had much to do with each other. Yet DS connects the two, and when they deny being scumbuddies (Big surprise, whether they are or not), DS takes that as immediate confirmation of his theory. Allow me to quote from Liam at the top of the page:
I may not be Liam's biggest fan, but he's dead right here. DS seems to have baited DLS into speaking up in relation to his vote on Thanatos, and used that to claim the two are scumbuddies. Personally, this is a leap of logic I couldn't have made with a pole vault. Is it possible, and should we have a look into it? Sure, we should be looking into every plausible theory that gets posted. Is this proof? No. Normally, I'd be a little more conditional, but as they would say in Law and Order, DS has simply not made his prima facia case yet.
I'm actually pretty suprised nobody picked up on this, while it's true we need more information, this seems a little drastic.Disciple Slayer wrote:
I just gave a PBPA and you FOS me for quoting the words of a dead townie? I think your reasoning is flawed. Here's a vote to pressure you into more information.
Vote: Thanatos
Now watch as DLS rushes to defend him in her next post.
Further, a good portion of DS's case against the two is based on what he terms their overreaction to his accusations. In fairness, I think that it should be noted here that DS is at this point reacting very radically to anything either Thanatos or DLS posts, regardless of what it is. Frankly, all that this hyper-aggressive investigation of DLS and Thanatos that DS has drummed up has served only to make me more suspicious of him.
In fairness, DLS lyingand admitting to itis quite concerning to me, and I'm really not sure what to do with this information. In context, she has been somewhat shifty in her positions the entire game, saying one thing and then sometimes posting a revision to her previous words, or a corollary. As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on whether she's scummy or just passive-aggressive, but I want to hear more from her either way.
In regards to Thanatos, I'm frankly buying his defense from DS's accusations right now (much moreso than the accusations themselves, as should be evident by this point). His counteranalyses of DS's PBPAs seem to jive for me, and he does point out at least one suspicious omission in DS's quotations, an omission that runs totally counter to what DS is saying. I'm not sold on Thanatos either way yet, and I'd like to hear more from him (god, I say that so much...), but right now I can't find much to pry at, at least not recent stuff.
Anyway, in summary,FOS: Disciple Slayerfor a long, incongruous series of suspicious analyses of other peoples' thoughts, omitting quotations directly relevant to a PBPA, and seeming to bait out a supposed connection between two people that is on its face suspect at best.-
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Infinitive Goon
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Hear hear. That kind of stuff is just rude, and can get people (like me) in trouble for having played on breaks at work. If someone goes and sees that while I'm playing and feels uncomfortable, it's sexual harassment.Nudude wrote:On a seperate note,
I don't make this kind of post very often, but Disciple Slayer, I don't find your signature funny, clever or anything than could be associated with any positive words.
Bear in mind, when you were given a choice between multiple people to vote, you choose the person who you found to be the most unpleasant.
I'd appreciate it if you changed your sig, DS. Thanks.
Now, Nudude, you've been kind of hard on several people over the course of several posts recently, and you said in your last post that you'd post the reasons when you got around to them. In fairness, I think that they deserve to see the reasons behind your accusations when you're saying the stuff you're saying around them. In addition, the game has slowed a bit, so levying a couple more suspicions might get things to pick up a bit.
C'mon, people, post!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Nudude, I'd like to ask you a question, but before I do so, allow me to offer a touch of commentary.
I find your questioning to be interesting. You've been pushing DLS quite hard over the past couple of pages, provoking some responses that are interesting to me. I haven't bought her defense yet, but, on the other hand, I feel that you're pushing against a person rather than a set of actions. To clarify, it seems to me as if you're putting the screws to DLS more intensely than, in my opinion, her actions would justify. You have noted this, and said that this is simply a playstyle of yours. This leads me to an observation.
Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.
Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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I have to apologize for what I said earlier regarding DLS and her lying. I didn't read her post after she said she lied at the beginning, and I should have.
DLS, please accept my apologies. I was, it seemed, impervious to dry humor that day.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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I'm sorry, DLS, but that just hasn't been the case. Each time you've been pursued, you've posted substantially in your own defense, and your desire to not back down helped create the flame war.
Charter is dead on in his analysis of your behavior. You haven't really contributed to much of anything besides your own defense this game. I can see why that would make Nudude suspicious, in large part because I agree with his reasoning (though not as of yet the extent to which he's carried it). Simply put, you've given me no reason to believe that you're town, DLS. I understand that the mathematical odds are that you ARE town, but that's irrelevant to me right now.
As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.
However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let him survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Okay, normally I'd be one to let someone finish what they were saying, but I can't let this mess pass, not even for a minute. This whole post reels to high heaven to me, but nothing moreso than this:liamcool wrote:(please note, this post is likely to be a huge mess)
hThanatos wrote:Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time forhim
That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,Unvote, Vote:Liamcool
We don't know you're a townie. You do seem suspicious, even if your intentions are good and true. (yes, that sounds cliched.)
Your vote seems a bit spur of the moment, so I won't comment on it for now, but I might come back in a later post.
This is a pretty idiotic and spur of the moment thing too, but I'll let it go as maybe you were rushing to make a post or something.charter wrote:Ooops, hadn't read page 25 when I made that last post, after reading it I do think nudude could be scum as well.
Infinitive wrote:As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.
However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let im survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.
I think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people. Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me. In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.
(more to come later as thoughts continue to come to my head. Is double posting under these circumstances accepted or not?)charter wrote:
Hmmm, now that I go back and reread around 430, I can't find where infinitive voted for liamcool at all. I was basing it off of DTs post 431 and infinitives 429 where I guess I just infered it from infinitive's saying he's 90% sure DT is scum and I must of assumed this meant he would be voting for DT.Infinitive wrote:Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.
Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.
Problem 1: here, Liam isI think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people. Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me. In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.againmisquoting what happened on day one and early day 2; Charter was earlier unable to find where I voted for Liam, and I came back (in a post Liam did not quote) assuring the game at large not only that I had, but that I thought Liam was still (and ought to be) suspect #1 right now. He made this same contention earlier on day 2, and I know we called him on it there. Making the same omission twice is exceptionally suspicious to me.
Problem 2: Liam is calling for suspicion on Charter and Gorgon, thenin the same breathsaying that any suspicion levied against him is needless. Whether this is scummy or not is up to you all, but I think it is, and is just plain stupid besides. Checking people out is a good idea, especially when they were fingered by not one, but two dead townies on day 1.
Problem 3: Liam is calling for an investigation on the wrong people. Gorgon has been a careful and active scumhunter for the entirety of the game. While I have yet to do a PBPA on him, nothing he's done thusfar has made me the least bit suspicious. Charter is even worse- I HAVE done a PBPA on him, and not only have I found nothing suspicious, he's been an excellent contributor to the scumhunt (certainly moreso than many of us). Maybe it's dumb for me to do so, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Charter is the only person besides myself that I'm certain is a townie.
Liam, frankly, I don't know of anyone in the game that thinks you're not scummy, and throwing counterclaims against those we have really no reason to suspect instead of trying to give us some reason, ANY reason, to believe that you're anything but scum is just silly.
I'm not going to vote for you yet, because the day is still young, but rest assured that it will be there when we're done checking other people out.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Why am I not voting for Liam yet? 2 reasons, really.
#1 is that, as DT noted, we probably have 3 scum to find. I'm certain that Liam is one. I'd like to find out who the other two are; if we can find someone we think is certainly scum today, I may vote for him/her, just because I'm so sure that Liam IS scum. He'll get lynched eventually, and I'm in no hurry if we find someone else to lynch first. He really isn't doing anything right now that confounds or confuses us, so I don't feel immediately threatened by his presence when we know that there are more scum (or maybe a SK) out there.
#2 is that if I throw my vote on someone, my questioning is less potent, as I've announced before, and intend to stick with, the philosophy of voting once each day and sticking with it. As long as I haven't dropped that, I can keep the threat open.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Wow... we're really screwed if VL is telling the truth. He's gonna get NK'd for sure now, with the doc dead.
Just to speak up, I'd like to voice the possibility that VL is lying... though this would be kind of a dumb move for a scum, all they have to do is protect their own for today- if we lynch a townie and both nightkills hit town (and presuming DT was right in his estimation of 3 scum), we're sitting at 3 town/3 scum, which means it's game.
Just wanted to note, there's the possibility that this is a power play to try and end the game by keeping two scum from the hangman's noose.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Hokay. Well, since the wailing and gnashing of teeth over what seems to be a very foolish copclaim are now over, I have to ask the pointed question.
What now?
If we presume that VL is telling the truth, who should we be looking at? If we assume he's lying, what should we do? I'm really not happy with either possibility, and I haven't been in a situation even remotely similar to this before. Anyone got any bright ideas?Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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I'm going to have to beg everyone's pardon here, but I'm just having a hard time believing VL. It may just be my inexperience talking here; if so, forgive my ignorance.
I pointed out earlier that, given 2 NKs a night, we may be looking at Lynch or Lose here today. Naturally, that's a really bad position for the town to be in, but it's a position we kind of have to accept. The important point is that, given that same information,the scum know this as well.Allow me to think out loud.
Let's pretend I'm playing scum and it's quite possibly lynch or lose for the town. One of my scumbuddies, whom I know to be the Godfather, has been acting scummy in the thread. Is it a necessarily bad strategy to falseclaim as a cop, "clearing" my scumbuddy? If he gets lynched, there's no problem; I'm the cop, right, and I investigated him as town. That's what should have happened. Alternately, if my strat works right, I send the town scurrying off looking for the ONE other scum in the game; in all likelihood, they'll mislynch, given the odds. After that, it's one night and LyoL.
I think that this could have been a very shrewd move by VL; he waits to see if the cop comes out and indicts someone. If not, he falseclaims and sets this whole mess up. Obviously, this wouldn't work if he'd been investigated thoroughly, because nobody would believe him if he roleclaimed as part of an interrogation.
Maybe this is just me doing conspiracy theories again, like with DT. Still, I just don't like this claim one bit. It's a little TOO dumb, if you ask me.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Infinitive Goon
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Infinitive Goon
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Okay... more musings.
First, despite DS's wall of text, he still seems radical, reactionary, and hyper-aggressive in regards to DLS. I like his analysis to a degree, but I'm not sure if I like it given, specifically, his history with DLS. Neither one of them seems townish to me, but neither one of them seems scummy enough to vote for either. Further, I could easily see their constant bickering as a smokescreen to keep the town from coming after them in a serious way.
FOS: Disciple Slayer & Dark Lady Shiann
OTOH, I am officially really suspicious of Thanatos at this point. Despite peoples' repeated observation of the fact, his playstyle radically reversed itself when we made the move to day 2. Further, he's really only responded to direct prodding from other people today, his voting aside. Simply put, this flip makes absolutely no sense to me, and makes me wonder what the heck is going on. As I've noted before, Than needed grilling for his part in the day 1 lynch, and the result of that has been him taking really no role in the investigation today.
As such,FOS: Thanatos.
Also, if you wanna see something wild, go back and read the beginning of Thanatos' day 1 posts up until I made my PBPA, then read a page or two of his posts after. He was starting up back into leading before I posted, and afterward nada.
P.S.: DS, I apologized for jumping the gun on DLS' "lying". You noticed that, but did your best to make it mean the same thing as what I was apologizing FOR, even as you did your best to make a case against DLS. C'mon, man, that sorta thing is just silly.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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I'm here. Nothing to say at the moment; I've been waiting for the PBPAs that a couple of you have promised before I act, because my previous instincts seem to have been rather poor.
And counterclaim or not, I'm still not happy with the VL copclaim. Sorry.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Like I said before, Charter, it just seems too dumb of a move to me. This is only my second game, and I'd like to think that even I'd have more sense than that. Oh well.
And VL, I really wish you'd waited till you found a scum.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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Infinitive Goon
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Ugh... I just blew a head gasket in my car. I might only be in intermittently for a while, especially on weekends. Sorry if it's inconvenient for you guys- this is already gonna cost me over $3000, and as such is somewhat more important to me than an internet forum game.Ha! I'm being snarky and condescending to you on an internet forum! Take that, some guy I'll never meet!-
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Infinitive Goon
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