Mini 506: The Siena Syndicate - Game Over!

[Gorrad]

That's nice. Glad to see I'm welcome. For the record, I'm not exactly thinking you're the most protown either. The whole deal with Originality seemed pretty off, despite the terrible joke plays he did. You went after him tooth and claw.

Hmm, as for the night dealeo, I really don't think the mafia would kill its own. Most likely would be:
1. Doc+SK/Vig
2. Mafia no-kill+SK/Vig
3. Roleswapper

I agree that the whole roleswapper thing is far-fetched, especially with a roleblocker. I'd believe either-or, but not both.

Scum lsit:
1. Clockwork- STRONG scum vibes. Some gut, but his play really seems off.
2. White, for the deal with Originality
3. would be Vamp for lurking, if I wasn't replacing him. As it stands, Cynic.

There we go, that is pretty much my thoughts so far. Questions?

[Gorrad]

Glork's always town.

[Gorrad]

No need to prod me. I'm here, just have had nothing to contribute recently.

[Gorrad]

I'm really BAD at reading through stuff that's already in place. I get bored. My scumtell was mostly vibe stuff, because I wasn't looking for specifics. Things from here on out, now that I'm a part of the game, will be more attentive.

[Gorrad]

EBWOP: Clarification- I meant your scumtells, as in the reasons I didn't like your posts, not scumtells against me.

[Gorrad]

It's only page 11, there's no rush to end d1 yet. But, as you wish,

Vote: Peers

for trying to rush things so early.

[Gorrad]

We are? Oh we ARE! It's quick to me, and that's what I've felt. If I had been in as long as y'all, I'd probably not have voted there, and would have sympathised with how long y'all have played. But, to me, it's a new game.

[Gorrad]

Doh!

Unvote

[Gorrad]

overall, good list, a lot better and more thorough than mine.

[Gorrad]

Well...THAT was an exchange, right there. Chronx, your accusation of Oman's vote being personal when he DID in fact give a solid base for a vote is terrible. It's an awful play, and it's a huge insult to the player. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's insults to players rather than a play. Oman, your response was unreasonably harsh, but that was quite the insult to you. He very much started it.

Vote: ChronX

[Gorrad]

Ah, a clarification then. I read and agreed with Oman's analysis, and the reaction ChronX gave, to convince everyone that it was on false grounds, confirmed any suspicions on him. Had he used logic to disprove you, that would have been a different story, but because he resorted to a personal blow I must assume he could NOT disprove you and used a meta-game insult as a last resort escape plan. Therefore, he is scum.

[Gorrad]

simulposted. Give me a sec and I'll respond

[Gorrad]

3. Misses my post in between my vote and unvote which is loaded with smileys. I'm still in the random phase in 34, which maybe he can't tell (I vote for the stated reason that CC missed the GMs rule to have fun....random votehop) VERDICT: Making this vote/unvote scummy is seriously twisting the context. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he wasn't here to "feel" it

You're still in the random stage when someone else is actually doing something? WHY? Random votes are supposed to be used until the actual scumhunting starts, so why do it when there's real work to be done?

5. Hammer and the hammer defense. *shrug* I've defended myself on that, to White. Oman IS White. I don't need to re-explain myself to the same role, do I? Its all back there to read. If Oman wants to re-open discussion of my hammer with specific questions, I'll be glad to discuss it further, and let the rest of the town decide whether it is productive scum hunting.
VERDICT: Old news. Other people don't agree with my hammer, some do. Its WIFOM case at best, either way, his attack or my defense of the subject.

You REALLY should have waited until the claim before hammering- it could have allowed us to keep another power role. Just because you explained something to his predecessor doesn't mean that Oman feels the same way about it as White. This isn't WIFOM at all, it's a serious scumtell.

6. Goes ad hominem on me with his woman comments, doesn't agree with my case or presentation of it on Clockwork. Says things Clockwork has been saying. To use Oman's logic about me and Avinyl, SCUMBUDDIES!. ps for those who say I started it, refer to that little piece of his case on me to see who started with the sarcastic personal attack first.

Ok, so he insulted you. That was out of line, but he used it to illustrate a point. You used it to try and weasel your way out of accusations.

7. Scum "pairs" me with 2 other people, when we have already had one mafia member die. Most common sense set up with a mafia member dying at night is that we have a serial killer. So one of the essences of Oman's case is that we have FOUR mafia members (me, Avinyl, Vamp, and dead Greenday) AND most people conclude a serial killer. If we have a SK, then common sense suggests we have a roleblocker or 1shot roleblocker, and we have a claimed miller. Quite the set up that Oman's case hangs together on.

Just because he pairs you with two others doesn't mean he thinks that BOTH are scum. It means he thinks you're likely to be scum with one of them. You're grasping for straws here. I think a setup containing a miller, an SK, and 3 mafia is completely reasonable.

Logical town players will echo Peers question

Ok, now you're saying that if we don't echo it we must be illogical. Ad hominem.

Avinyl already has votes, and Oman fingers him as scum. Wouldn't his vote have been more productive on Avinyl, if it was not furthering some other agenda by landing on me?

He's explained this, and quite satisfactorly in my opinion. He thinks that you're scum more than he thinks that Avinyl is, so he votes for you. Nothing strange there.

That's my take on your counter-argument. You're ignoring things that Oman said, and taking others out of context. You're scum, you're caught, and you're just trying to weasel your way out of it.

[Gorrad]

Y'all're right. This is rather a snail's-pace game.

[Gorrad]

I've already voiced my suspicion of ChronX, I don't think I need to repeat that. I also see the case on Avinyl. Clockwork I've got a strong gut scum feeling from. Glork, your play so far has been good, but I didn't like the White/Orig dealeo. Oman and Peers seem pretty clean to me. I don't really have strong feelings on anyone else.

[Gorrad]

Hey, just a heads up: My monitor's broken, so posting will be sporadic for a short period. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Gorrad]

I'm back. My stance really hasn't changed, I'm thinking scum on Avinyl and ChronX most of all. Since ChronX isn't in the game anymore, I'll

Unvote, Vote: Avinyl

for now, and if ChronX's replacement is as scummy as he was, I'll switch.

[Gorrad]

Erm, I guess I should clear up my stance. I DID vote for Avynl because of stuff he did before going inactive. I didn't mention him in my first list because it was a very loosely-thrown list. The case I reffered to after was the one from before I entered, not the inactivity post. This vote was to help push the game along, but Avynl IS top of my list not counting ChronX.

And Glork, I have faith in your scum-hunting, but I also know you twist that to your advantage to become a fiendish scum (Remember scumchat with you and Eep on mafia? Yeah. Never again.). So as far as I'm concerned, you do your thing, I'll cooperate, but if I think you're doing something scummy, I'll say so. So far, I have no complaints.

[Gorrad]

Crap, you're right. I hate to sound like I'm rushing, but I kinda am. Can we please get a consensus here? A NL wouldn't be the end of the world, but we'd lose a lot more than we would gain.

[Gorrad]

Ah! Ok then, missed that.

[Gorrad]

Meh, I thought ChronX was scummier anyhow.

Unvote, Vote: Quagmire

.

[Gorrad]

My vote stays. I accept his excuse for not posting, but ChronX was and is top of my list, and since he hasn't posted much he hasn't changed my opinion.

[Gorrad]

Oh and yeah, deadline extension would be good.

[Gorrad]

My vote stays. I accept his excuse for not posting, but ChronX was and is top of my list, and since he hasn't posted much he hasn't changed my opinion.

Because I haven't posted much? You're seriously voting for me because I haven't posted much since I replaced in for ChronX? I'm sorry if I didn't get a chance to read the thread until yesterday. I understand that a death in my family makes me scummy.

Anyways, Oman needs to die. White was horribly mafia and Oman isn't any better. I don't think that lynching me would be a good idea.

No, I'm saying that because you haven't posted much, you haven't had a chance to change my opinions. Oman's still #3 on my list because of White's scumminess, the reason he's not #1 is because I've found his play to be very pro-town, despite his predecessor. You have not redeemed yourself from ChronX's scumminess.

[Gorrad]

Because I find you much more scummy by association with your predecessor? White was bad too, but ChronX was worse.

[Gorrad]

Quag is becoming less scum to me, OR more scummy

Explain this to me.

[Gorrad]

Quag is becoming less scum to me, OR more scummy

Explain this to me.

OR != or, OR== October Raven

Ok, that cleared it up. Thanks.

[Gorrad]

Well crap. That's three power roles down in two days. I'm not sure if CDB is SK, Vig, or town, but what Peers said scares me. If we're LILO and lynch Vig, we're dead, and if we lynch the SK, that's still not as good as lynching a mafia member since he has a chance of hitting scum.

I'd also like to throw out the third option, in addition to a Doc protect and no-NK, that the SK or Vig just targetted Glork as well. In which case it could very well not be CDB. All in all, though, I think CDB has a NK ability.

Third and lastly, I'm not going to vote for CDB due to the dangers of a mislynch, so I will keep my

Vote: Quagmire

[Gorrad]

Woah, you're right.

Unvote

, but the intent stays.

[Gorrad]

vote: Quagmire

you and gorrad are the final scum partners. nice bandwagoning me.

Unvote: Quagmire

I don't want 2 votes on anyone yet, too risky.

Quag, why do you think the two people to FIRST vote you would be scummy? If Scum were to lynch, they would be the last three to vote. If someone were to put on a third vote, then one of the three could be scum. Two people voting means that if they're scum (like you think us to be) then you're in no danger of being quicklynched. Two people is a danger, not a bandwagon.

[Gorrad]

OR: Please unvote, we've already said why we don't want two people voting the same one. A quicklynch is too likely.

Vamp: Can you explain your suspicions? You said we need to build up cases, but you've contributed nothing to building up those cases except pointing fingers with no given reason.

[Gorrad]

OR, we can't have 2 votes on someone. If there are 3 scum left, they could quicklynch, although the fact that this hasn't happened yet makes me think there might only be two- or one of the current voters is scum. Waldo, will you unvote if OR won't?

[Gorrad]

That could work, but why do you now think we aren't in LYLO? I'm willing to go along with it if we aren't, but I didn't really see any reasoning why we wouldn't be. I might just not have seen it, I'm not saying it's not there.

[Gorrad]

Same here. Hey, I got an idea, let's use FoSs instead of votes while we might be in LYLO. That way we can have a bold statement without risking a quicklynch.

FoS: Quagmire

. I'll post FoS counts like vote counts.

[Gorrad]

Quagmire, I think you're scum. I really do, and will not say otherwise. That being said, I'm going to prove you wrong.

Vote: Quagmire

. He scum, so he won't get quicklynched.

[Gorrad]

Well dang. Ok, so we're definitely in LYLO now. This means two of y'all are scum, and three townies (probably all vanilla). At least the SK is gone, for what it's worth. My thoughts:

Ooba: I haven't seen much scummy behavior yet. I'd bet a lot on him being one of the townies.

Vampyrusddg: Tried to make cases without backing them up. That's about it.

WaterboyWaldo: Not much of a read here.

OR: VERY uncooperative d3. The threat of a quicklynch was all too real, and he ignored it. Almost like he knew it wouldn't happen.

If I had to guess, I'd say scum are OR and Waldo or Vamp. I'd also like everyone else to post a scumlist like this- we're definitely LYLO now, and need all the opinions we can get.

[Gorrad]

Because now there's no doubt. There WAS doubt yesterday, when we weren't sure if it was 3 scum/SK or 4 scum/Vig, but now we've got 5 people and only one scum dead. It's not lost yet, so we can't have more than three scum, and unless you're suggesting we had 4 power roles against two scum and an SK (very town-heavy), we're at LYLO. I have no doubt.

[Gorrad]

Scumlists, anyone? I think we're at the point where they're really gonna come in handy.

[Gorrad]

Erm, I missed the Miller claim, where was that? Also, please explain what you meant be Raven and the cop.

[Gorrad]

I found it. Yeah, that's iffy, but he DID claim it up-front, and in a very pro-town way. I'm inclined to believe it. Anyone else care to help the town with a list?

[Gorrad]

I factored that in already. My position is the same.

[Gorrad]

Grr, being active is your friend. Vamp, Ooba, anything to contribute?

[Gorrad]

Are you willing to risk the game on your curiosity? I think he's scum too, but I'm gonna wait before voting.

[Gorrad]

OR, Clockwork is dead. He was a TOWNIE! You can't FoS the dead, especially not the innocent dead.

[Gorrad]

Please don't vote until EVERYONE is sure. One vote, and we're quicklynched if someone guessed wrong.

[Gorrad]

Right now I think we compare scumlists, debate a while, and lynch someone agreed by the majority before anyone votes. So yes, we're waiting for Ooba.

[Gorrad]

Well, reading over, it looks like we've got three people with OR as their #1 choice (Vamp, I don't think you ever posted a scumlist). Ooba, good points btw. I agree with you, WW does look like an innocent cop target.

OR, the fact that you're resigning yourself to fate is the last nail in your coffin in my mind. Good defense helps the town endgame. So I'm confident that I'm not wrong when I

Vote: October Raven

.

[Gorrad]

Good Game.

[Gorrad]

For the most part, it was me. Seriously, I was shocked when y'all didn't guess that I was the one who offed Glork. He came in with me saying 'Glork is always town.' I had a huge defense ready and everything. It shifted blame, did all that jazz. Seriously, good game. That was a lot of fun.

[Gorrad]

I tell ya, I was very nervous at the start. Green Day attempted to kill White, but got killed instead. I thought that White was some kind of role-reverser, but I guess White was saved and Green Day was SKd. In hindsight, that woulda been fairly unbalanced for this setup, but I was scared all the same.

[Gorrad]

Here are the PMs, Peers:

Gorrad to Vamp:

Most excellent job, we've got them cornered. Ok, I think Peers is the best NK choice. He and clockwork have been in the longest, so they have the best feel for the game, and he's been very active. Clockwork and Ooba I think we can fool, Waldo and OR I know we can. One last thing- if you don't have a case on me, don't call me out as suspicious. It just looks like distancing. All in all, great job!

Vamp to Gorrad:

Yeah, went really well, I'm sorry about the almost immediate bussing attempt as soon as I came in, but I was actually intending to make a case against you (although obviously not too strong) I was thinking the same thing for the NK but going for clockwork instead, Peers is scummy enough to build a decent case against and I've got a gut feeling about CW being the SK (I'm pretty certain we're dealing with an SK not a vig)

I'll leave the call up to you though, get the decision in as quick as you can, their definitly going to be off balance and the less time to think thoroughly over the game before they get back to the petty squabbling the better for us

Gorrad to Vamp:

I don't want to kill the SK yet. They still think there might be a vig, and if we can confuse them long enough about our numbers, we still have one thing over them. Either one's a good kill though, so I'll leave it up to you to send in the NK PM. Your choice.

Vamp to Gorrad:

okays then Peers it is, PM sent, lets finish this bunch off


So yeah, we were actually aiming to NOT kill the SK. You did too good of a job.