Mini 1762: Game Over
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BBT and kirroha are both pretty good votes.
kirroha's 75 is disconcerting. I agree with RC in that the way she expressed concern over the wagon is likely scum-indicative, but it's dependent on how kirroha follows up that concern as well. Given her claim that there are likely scum on the BBT wagon given how fast it popped up, I'm curious to see what names she specifically indicts.
I actually really don't like BBT's opening, I was posting from class earlier and thought it was kinda weird but thinking more about it I really don't like characterizing tojam's selfvote as awful. It was pretty neutral-looking to me. I'm not sure how you can connect that selfvote to an increased likelihood of being scum (unless by awful he meant that it was bad play in which case I'm not sure why he was calling for more votes).
And @iai yeah I'm already on the wagon.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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@Syndesis: The way he's calling out inactivity feels genuine/town motivated.
@ink: Do you know what she's softing? Scum would do that for a variety of reasons.
-Stall wagon momentum (which it did) while not having to actually claim yet and without the typical downsides of a softclaim like that as scum
-Gain towncred by acting in an unusual way
-Set up opportunity to push a counterwagon
Idk, like, that seems like a really really scum-motivated way to softclaim. I usually like things like early softclaims as pretty strong towntells but this just feels scum-motivated.
Why would town do it? It's anti-town, and kirroha strikes me as the kind of player who wouldn't make that kind of a play as town. She shouldn't feel the need to do something that drastic to swing wagon momentum as town at this stage of the game.-
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In post 226, ink wrote:In post 167, Killthestory wrote:My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.
Are you familiar with this concept?
I enjoy that i was skimming this and saw this post without reading what you were quoting and knew what you were linking to immediately >_>
As for kirroha 128 doesn't really make me feel much either way on her. Her softclaim isreallyscummy. I guess I'll wait for her to say more about it but I'll probably just explain it if no one else does and if she isn't willing to just claim it because if i could figure it out then a coordinated scumteam certainly can. Like there'syet anotherreason why this play makes no sense as town. I figured out the softclaim in like five minutes of looking. The entire point of a softclaim is that scum can't figure out what you are. Kirroha is a 2009 player who's making cogent arguments; I hate to invoke burden of proficiency but I would not expect Kirroha to make such a sloppy play as town, whereas it makes plenty of sense as scum (which, again, I'll explain if Kirroha refuses to hardclaim, but I'll give her a chance to if she wants).-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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Alright. Let's wallstripe Kirroha's post because I think it's worth it to.
In post 230, kirroha wrote:I need to clarify something.All I revealed was that I crumbed my role early in the game, and everyone started going back and trying to figure out what was it that I crumbed and making speculations (which are all wrong).I did not softclaim anything.
Two things. One, I probably should have said crumbed instead of softclaimed (I occasionally use them interchangeably which I shouldn't, but etc). Two, mine isn't wrong. And since it's integral to why Kirroha is scum let me just say it (since, again, scum will be able to figure it out anyway since I have): Kirroha has, in fact, breadcrumbed vanilla town in post 107: "xiang'cao'nong'min." It's a transliteration (pinyin) of Chinese for "vanilla peasant" (at least according to the internet).
And to preempt the "lolol implosion is rolefishing" argument because SOMEONE is going to make it: (1) her crumbing vanilla townie is the main reason I think she's scum and (2) scum will be able to figure this out anyway; I'm just opening it up so that the town can discuss it too.
I stated quite clearly that my crumb is in plain sight, but is impossible to figure out unless you know the language.
I don't know the language (I took Chinese in high school over 4 years ago and remember ostensibly nothing); I just recognized what it was and then googled for it. Google translate can't but there are other sites that can translate from pinyin to English. Google translate also gives pinyin. It's not hard to put the relatively few normal roles into google translate and see which ones give what you said.
I have deliberately also made it a crumb that isn't Google Translateable either, so that nobody will be able to tell what it is until I have to explain the crumb myself. Essentially, the crumb will only make sense after I am forced to claim.
There are essentially two things that could be going on here. Either Kirroha is scum and is lying about this (relatively unlikely) or Kirroha is telling the truth that she thought the crumb wasn't decipherable. If it's the latter then it makes plenty of sense as a scum strategy: you can kill the momentum on your wagon without having to commit to claiming anything risky, since it's a vt breadcrumb. I can sort of see the motivation for this as town but it seems way less likely, especially since Kirroha has dropped hint after hint after hint to what she's softclaiming; as scum she wouldn't necessarily care if it got out that she was claiming vt (it doesn't necessarily harm scum) but as town it is harmful for her to be known as a vt (gives scum more info on who to nk).
This is so there is no way my crumb or the fact that I have a crumb would give any kind of extra information to scum.Instead, it is a way for me to inform the rest of the town that I had aconsistentrole from the beginning, something which scum is unlikely to have. It doesn't necessarily mean a PR softclaim. I could've crumbed "vanilla townie" for all you know.
Again, having a "consistent" role from the beginning is not hard as scum when that role is vanilla townie. Also note that she seems to be backhandedly implying that crumbing vt is something very town-ish to do (which it isn't) by comparing it with this idea of having a consistent role.
@Regarding me as a 2009 player: I just need to clear it up that I have only played 4 games on this site so far - 2 in 2009 and 1 in 2014. In all of them, I was either lynched early, or the game ended early for any other reason. While I'm not trying to excuse being a tentative or bad player, I hope you can consider this fact before anyone points out the fact that I don't play very well as being scummy because "if I'm town I would be better at this since I'm a 2009 player".
Fair enough, but the read of you as competent is more based on you making cogent arguments and the fact that you're arguing from past experience than your join date. It also isn't integral to you being scum.
P-edit: here's another great thing.
Kirroha wrote:I'm not going to talk anymore about my crumb in case you're scum trying to fish information about my role.
If you were town concerned about scum fishing your role there is no way you would give hint after hint after hint about your crumb. If you're scum then in 2-3 days or whenever you're forced to claim you can just explain why you weren't nked after crumbing by saying "oh well I guess scum figured out my role."-
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To clarify the hints:
137: says she's crumbing.
156: hints that she's not crumbing a role scum commonly have.
158: says the crumb is obviously a crumb, which makes it easy to find.
230: "Impossible to know unless you know the language." Hints that it's written in another language.
231: explicitly says the above.-
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In post 265, Killthestory wrote:Ok so you're using the basis of that crumb to scumread her?
Dude, been there done that did not work out
?
I don't know what you're referring to but unless it's a different game in which someone crumbed vanilla townie and then repeatedly mentioned and clarified the crumb and did all of the other things i'm scumreading Kirroha for then I don't see how this is relevant at all. This is a different game with a different player (I assume) from whatever you're referring to.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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"more or less" is not a thing in mafia >_>
Every game is entirely different, every player exhibits an entirely different personality and set of tendencies as either alignment.
Different site means different meta as well. I could imagine crumbing vt like this to be much less indicative of scum in a different metagame.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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In post 273, Killthestory wrote:I'm saying tunneling the read based off a crumb and not in game behavior hasn't worked out for me, and I was 99 percent sure
Again
That was one crumb
This is an extremely different crumb (again an assumption)
Plus it isn't just the crumb on its own, it's her behavior around the crumb.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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That's just not true. If you claim anything other than vanilla townie on day one as scum, you have to explain why you're still alive on day two. If you claim doctor, or cop, or even some weak power role, that's plenty of reason for scum to kill you. That's not even wifom; if you're going to softclaim or breadcrumb something d1 as scum when you think there's a significant chance you're going to have to claim it, you're going to go for vt or some weak role.
VT is an extremely strong claim as scum; it throws you into a massive pool of indistinguishable players and forces the town to use scumhunting to discern between them, and scumhunting is always fallible.-
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I've been really lazy today. I can see Kirroha as town now. Not convinced. But meh. I'm not sure what I think about the vt claim thinking more about it. It just feels so off but she's said some things that seem pretty unlikely as scum. I guess I'm willing to table a kirroha lynch for now, but I still wouldn't mind it I think given that I still think she's potentially scum (and since she's claiming vt).
@kirroha: I can definitely see shortcut as scum. I've tried to read his ISO a couple times and I just can't really tell what he's doing; it seems like he's just not committing that strongly, and possibly in a scummy way. The hop off of kirroha is also pretty arbitrary-looking.
Idk about killthestory. I still get a gut townvibe from what I mentioned earlier. 375 is interesting, but I feel like it's probably just a misunderstanding that could be cleared if killthestory clarifies what he means.
BBT is just a pile of either null or null-slightly-leaning-scum. He really needs to do some shit.
Unvote
VOTE: Shortcut
Still need to keep looking at others. If anyone wants me to prioritize looking at anyone else in particular say so, otherwise I'll keep working through getting reads later.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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I think you're definitely tunneling, possibly moreso since you seem to think VTs are disposable.
This is inaccurate. I would be happy to lynch someone who I have, say, a small scumread on and who I know isn't a power role on day one. I wouldn't want to lynch a vt claim that I had a townread on.
But whatever. You're misinterpreting a lot of my case but I'm not interested in looking more at your slot right now. Maybe later.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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I can see IAI scum. 328 is pretty bad. He jumps off of Rubixxx because he thinks it won't get momentum but still leaves a lingering fos and the reasoning for that fos is that he started posting after IAI pointed out that he wasn't. It's damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't.
Curious why RC thinks IAI's scum/is willing to vote him.
Nino is probably town based on the way she phrased her defense of kirroha.
tojam's last post is pretty sad... rhetorically asking if someone's done anything useful yet when his contributions amount to calling some reasoning poor without explaining why, and voting someone else for an ad hom.
Rubixxx seems somewhat town. Mostly gut though. Can elaborate if desired.-
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In post 440, RadiantCowbells wrote:ok so I wanna vote this guy because
well you see
its very subtle
the way he
actually just trust me
Infallible.-
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In post 445, Raskolnikov wrote:Implosion you just introduced wifom and ruined that you fool
Hi Raskolnikov.
Do you have any scumreads?-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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I mean I guess I should say the same thing to RC. I guess for some reason I kind of expect it from RC even though we've only played half a game together. He just seems like he belongs to that set of players that's always going to do that.
Intentional opacity is really annoying. It makes you harder to read. If you're town you shouldn't want to be harder to read.-
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@bbt I think 183 was part of it but I don't remember what I saw in it that was strongly town. There was something but I don't remember and it doesn't look particularly town looking back.
Pretty lazy. Will continue doing shit later.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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Some of Rubixxx's posts' lines of thought feel genuine (i.e. 290). 300 and 303 also strike me as genuine: the way he phrases those posts just doesn't feel like scum faking activity or faking an attitude or whatever. That general feeling of not being faked carries over into his more recent posting as well. 541 for instance feels genuine to me.
I can't see how you got town from 183 at all...
yeah neither can I >_> I tend to read very scattershot into things on day one and then often go back on later days and not really be sure why I read things as strongly as I did.
Right now I have ostensibly no opinion on RC.-
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In post 627, NinoMasaki wrote:Syndesis lynch is O.K. with me but I like lynching Taisho more. I think scum is mostly hiding in the hidden spot between the war between RC-senpai and BBT. I am less suspicious of those who are taking one side or another, and more suspicious of those who are dancing in-between. I do not think I am smart enough to understand the War between ink and Kill and Rubixxx sadly.
TheCow is it OK if you prods Kill, Taisho, Implosion and Syndesis? >w<
i posted 11 goddamn hours ago >_>-
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In post 665, kirroha wrote:Now Taisho is back to L-2. Strange how this wagon never seems to hold up very strong.
I really don't see how "back to L-2" isn't holding up strong-
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In post 663, Rubixxx wrote:
In post 650, tojam2 wrote:I'm going crazy, I swear Nino just posted telling someone to put Taisho at L-1, and now I've lynched him/her because it was all in my head!
At least we don't need a replacement now.
Does anyone else read this as terribly scummy, and an awful attempt to "accidentally" hammer another user? I could be reading too much into it, but idk.
*goes back to watching One Punch Man*
I can also see this.-
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In post 680, I Am Innocent wrote:Yeah shorts voting history is very bad (niño, kirr, and BBT) + this lurking near deadline hints at scum hoping a wagon will disappear.
unvote rubixxx
Vote taishagal
Kill is also still a great wagon
this lurking just seems like a player who joined too many games and hasn't started reading and then the game got longer and they continued not wanting to read
i feel like that's pretty much entirely alignment-independent. Why do you think it hints at scum?-
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In post 687, I Am Innocent wrote:In post 512, TaishoGal wrote:damn you cow why would you do this to me I didn't even read the thread
Gimme a day or two I have to sleep soon.
There's only 2 reasons someone would be upset like this:
1) they're town and not happy starting at L-2
2) they're scum and not happy starting at L-2.
That's such a false dichotomy and it completely sidesteps the question that I asked.
It looks to me like taisho joined this game and has basically read 0 posts because of lack of motivation or other commitments or whatever. I'm not even convinced that she knows she's at l-1.
I really am kind of apathetic about this game right now. I feel like I really haven't gotten what I want to out of this d1. I liked syndesis's tojam vote and I'd join that.
Actually let's just do that for now and see if it gets traction. It really isn't that close to deadline.
VOTE: tojam
I can try looking at kill again but I really just feel like there's going to be a mislynch unless momentum shifts significantly. I Mean bbt might not be but I really don't know how to read him.
I really don't know how people havestrongscumreads on taisho. Scumreading the slot makes sense but it just doesn't make sense to me that a lack of posting can give you a strong scumread in context. It really feels like the easy mislynch that scum are just letting slide by. The other wagons were built up and torn down pretty quickly; this one has been at l-2 or l-1 for a long time now because we're waiting and no one has really been pushing for anything else very hard. Or at least it doesn't feel like it.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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Yeah I think this is better than taisho. Idk I still get a gut townvibe from his early posting but his recent posting is pretty bad. I really don't know how to feel about bbt. It'd be nice if RC would say anything about why he suspects bbt but until then *shrug*. I think I prefer kill over bbt a bit.And either of them over taisho.
VOTE: Kill
2.5 days left is also starting to actually be a time crunch.-
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Today was a long day.
Idk. I just can't motivate myself to figure out this game as much as I'd like to. I still think the Robster slot is town especially after Robster's initial posting. I'm willing to lynch kts or bbt. There's just an alarming lack of coalescing.
I think I still have a preference for kill over bbt.
Again though if RC said any actual content about bbt he might be able to convince me but it doesn't look like he wants to. BBT's last post is a bit weird but I can see it as a rushed post from either alignment.-
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I can very much get behind this flashwagon. IAI's felt off all game and his argument for KTS still being the best is sketchy at best. It's reasonable to want to limit additional claims but saying "we didn't lynch the pr claim d1 in this game and we lost to them" is just absurd. It would have been right in that game; that doesn't make it right in this game or in general. Jailkeeper may be a common fakeclaim for scum rb but that doesn't preclude him being a town jailkeeper... and jailkeeper is a pretty damn likely role for scum to kill tonight if he is town (thus saving us the wasted mislynch). I don't know what scum claimed d1 in the game he linked (I looked for it a bit and then got bored) but we will get extra info about kts by not lynching him. 847 just feels like scum who's mad that they had the day locked down and that they might get derailed by the jk claim.
His play this game also just hasn't felt like last game. But that's somewhat of a weak feeling. But he's done other individual things that felt scummy.
VOTE: IAI-
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In post 971, RadiantCowbells wrote:yes, I super hard drove a BBT lynch as scum citing my meta scumread and went on to win the game. BBT expressed that he thought I might be scum and spent some time pursuing that but gave up and (I believe) ended up townreading me when he died in that game. But he made a serious effort to pursue the avenue of scum!RC and regardless of whether I'm correct that he died townreading me he didn't give me a carte blanche townread.
He has made no real effort to consider the possibility that I'm scum here and given my proficiency as scum and the relentlessness that I've been pushing him I can't imagine him as town reacting in the way he did on this page; a way that basically 100% assumes that I'm town with the tone and the words that he responded to me with. It really doesn't grok, especially when he's been claiming to townread me.
The way he's avoiding the thread and coming back at times that help him as scum feels really bad as well.
You know earlier than 30 minutes before deadline would have made just a teensy bit more sense to say this when multiple people were asking-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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In post 950, I Am Innocent wrote:I'm here.
I just love it how nobody finds it shady that implosion kill and rubixxx are all MIA as we scrounge to find the best town to lynch
There's this thing called I was asleep-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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