Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!

[White]

Hey guys, i'm going to read up and i'll get back with my notes!

[White]

Long posts are going to be coming from me. Thoughts through page 4:

Forgive the out of dateness of this post, it's what I was thinking while reading chronologically.

Vollkan seems protown to me, I can't really say why and it may just be null and void but i'm keeping my eyes open.

I would say that in this game, a townie lynch is almost as good as a scum lynch.

Why? Townies are the lifeblood of the cult. No townies= no recruits, No recruits= good.

Therefore, any townie claim should be punishable by lynch.

Which means that you've obviously not a townie.

FoS: Dr. Blackstrike

I just read the rules again and we have exactly 4-6 recruitable people.

Ok, so besides the anti townie mentality we've got the cultist mentality. Sounds like we've got our recruiter.

Vote Flameaxe

Blatent OMGUS. Dr BS, you're not looking to hot right now.

So as it goes, we are rewarding non-contributers, punishing contributers and creating an atmosphere where people are afraid to post their thoughts.

We're not rewarding anyone for not contributing. If not talking about someone = rewarding them then perhaps we are rewarding...but that's invalid and stupid. We're voting Dr BS because he's acting culty/scummy, not because he's contributing. You're idea about the atmophere is crap because it relies on your previous statements, which are crap.

Unvote Dr. Blackstrike

Ok, so because you reread 1 post, he's off the hook? Heck! He didn't even answer your questions! Distancing?

I am just arguing that we put aside the "gotcha" politics for a moment and determine a course of action.

Ok, then go ahead and propose one! Sitting around asking for other people to do all the work equates with doing nothing other than whining, moping and complaining. If you don't like how somethings going, do something about it.

Why would the cult put forward an idea to weaken itself?

It's called distancing. Heard of bussing? Same thing.

pwayne, if you do some research, I always random vote when I enter a game. I've done it on later pages than page 4 before.

Just because you do it a lot doesn't make it right, smart or helpful. Give a real defence next time please.

[White]

Please tell me where I said it was any of those things.

You, as a protown person, have the responsibility of catching scum. Therefore anything you do should be trying to catch scum. By doing something that isn't trying to catch scum you are being unhelpful and not smart because it draws suspicion. Why would you do something deliberately unhelpful? (dice vote on page 4 is unhelpful)

[White]

but that doesn't meen someone's scum.

Exactly. MoS hasn't posted nearly enough from what i've read (up through page 4) for me to gather that he's scum, so i'm going to just assume he's protown for right now. Sometimes I play assume innocent until proven guilty and sometimes I play assume guilty until proven innocent. Trying to work out which one is better.

He never expressly said any of those things, they were implied.

[White]

True. Maybe he could refrain from accusing people of whining and having crap ideas until then.

It's how I play, suck it up and get used to it. Some people around here would call it agressive.

the question I asked, he has already read over.

”…if I reread his post and think “vanilla town” I can see what he is saying(sort of)

So if you stretch your imagination and try to see his statement as protown, you can "sort of" see it? You then say you "don't think I agree with it". Then you say:

….he hasn’t really answered my question, how should townies make themselves ripe for a NK kill?

Now because of this you should unvote him? How does that work?

Sorry, i've been distracted all day today, i'll try and have my thoughts up tomorrow after I get done with household responsiblities.

[White]

Passive agression, nice. Thank you all so much for the warm welcome. Reading now.

[White]

Ok, not too much thoughts on the previous pages as it just seemed bashing here and bashing there, nitpicking and grumbling.

AGAIN? Tyhess is jumping on the bandwagon of the hour without providing much content at all...

This stuck out to me because it perfectly embodies my sentiments up to page 7 regarding Tyhess. Tyhess, branch out and state your own ideas, don't jump from bandwagon to bandwagon, that looks scummy.

It was been said that Pwayne plays more defensively than the normal player. I'm going to have to agree with this, in addition it seems Pwayne takes things personally, again not good. Pwayne, the goal of this game is to win, not to not lose. You playing to not lose is counterproductive, play to win or go home. Oh, and please stop taking things so personally, it's a game.

Any objections?

Oman, this game isn't a popularity contest. Your opinions shouldn't be able to be swayed so easily as someone saying "No, I think you're wrong" and you rewriting. That's being wishy washy and it looks scummy.

First off can everyone attempt when quoting other players to leave the person's name in the quote

QFT

I also find MoS way more defensive than I would even imagine of him for only having 1 (ONE) vote on him. It's simply uncalled for. He also stated that he hates being called out for stupid mistakes when he's scum more than when he's town, it appears to me he foretold his actions to a T. For this reason,

Vote: MoS

I think as we're now at over 10 pages it would be advantageous to everyone to post their scumdars so we can get moving on the right lynch of the day.

Theo - I'm not getting any scum vibes from him. He made some blunders in the beginning of the game but are we going to be anal about it?

Vollkan - I particularily don't like that Vollkan has run into virtually zero opposition to all of his views. He comes across like a mediator and judge, his words supercede others. This I don't like. However he hasn't really done anything deserving of a scum metal.

Tyhess - Newb. Made too many mistakes to let fly though so i'm going to see how he reacts as time goes by. Wildcard because I can't really get a read on him because of his newbiness.

Flame - I never really saw the case against Flame, it seemed more to me that people were antsy and so they picked a target and ran with him, then Flame kinda crumbled and disappears.

Mod: Please prod Flame

Acfan - Newb as well. However has made virtually no effort to contribute to the game. I have recently been smarted by lynching a lurker and then losing the game because of it so i'm anti-lynch-all-lurkers. I much prefer to prod them until they go replaced. Seems scummy.

FoS: Acfan. Mod: Please prod Acfan

TH - Seems new to the game (gee, there are quite a few) but has made his effort to pull his weight. I don't see too much going on wrong with TH so i'm not too concerned, i'll still keep my eye out but I don't see any big blunders.

BS - Newb (again). I'd like to see BS post more in light of the recent activity. I also don't understand why he wasn't lynched. I don't understand why the bandwagon was dropped against him so if someone could point me to the post(s) that made him seem townier? Looks scummy to me.

MoS - Overreacts. Taking things personally. Overly defensive. Jumping on Oman for reasonably minor mistakes. Seems antsy and trigger happy. Looks most scummy to me out of the current living players.

Oman - Has a lot of trouble defending himself. Has no trouble joining in on bashing others though as was demonstrated in pages like 1-7 or something. Seemed like anything Vollkan said, Oman agreed with. Not really liking that so i'll keep my eye on you but still i'm leaving this without a FoS.

Pwayne - Strikes me as a pacifist. Seems to abhor confrontation and doesn't like to "dissuade conversation" by voting for someone (I have yet to see this work in reality, votes stimulate conversation) which sounds crock to me. Takes things personally and needs to realize it's just a game. I'm willing to attribute this all to newbiness though. No FoS but still somewhat suspicious.

CKD - I find myself agreeing with CKD a lot. I like many of his views and support him. He hasn't really done too much to arouse suspicion imo. I do recall MoS saying that we needed to pressure or something CKD but then MoS just kinda dropped what he seemed so adamant about. Hmm. No FoS for CKD.

[White]

*laugh* I'm no IC dude, completed 2 games and one of those I replaced into on Day 3. For for pacifism, it's just a general vibe i'm getting from you, however the things you have said are true about what you have done regarding controntation and so I retract that statement. It was said based off of your desire to not pressure vote to dissuade conversation (could you provide an example of when a vote dissuades conversation?) which I still interpret as a desire to not pressure vote.

As far as what I have done to get the other talking. Nothing. I have been more focused on figuring out the logistics of this game. I am just arguing that we put aside the "gotcha" politics for a moment and determine a course of action.

So you've done (at the point I made that statement) nothing to get others to talk but you're "arguing that we put aside" the idiotic nonsensical blah blah for real game content related material. You said in essence "Guys! Stop whining and do something helpful!" while doing nothing helpful yourself. That is where I got my info from.

Can you post your scumdar?

[White]

Dissuading conversation is anti-town. Allowing Dr BS to state his full case, is pro town. Bullying him into shutting his mouth is anti-town.

I agree that it's anti town. However I see things differently. Dr BS posted what he thought, it came across scummy and was interpreted by I think everyone as not protown. Are you saying we should've encouraged him to keep spouting off not protown statements and that would've made him less scummy looking?

Btw, the votes on Dr BS did stimulate conversation, in fact that whole bandwagon and the ensuing activity led us onto the future bandwagons. So it did actually stimulate conversation, just not conversation coming from Dr BS.

[White]

I do love to stir the pot. I find it much easier to find scum that way. If you can piss everyone off then you can find the arguers that are justified and the ones that aren't. Justification is very very difficult to fake. Hence the reason I picked on you earlier, you passed btw, you don't seem that bad.

Also doesn't seem to take much seriously. [Oman]

Really? I'm getting a different read, he seems pretty defensive to me (for good reason) and seems to be taking things seriously but keeps messing up his words and stumbling over himself.

[White]

Yeah, well, stop evading and deal with the stuff brought up against you. It's all visible if you look in the previous pages. Oh and MoScum, post your scumdar.

[White]

Sorry!!! I just have this thing where I'm not quite sure what to say, jsut trying to take notes and watch. And lurk, which is funner than might be expected.

Ok, so if you're hanging back and lurking and "trying to take notes"...care to share some of those notes? We kinda need something to talk about. Oh, and please post your scumdar(list of people who you think are most suspicious to not suspicious at all and why you feel that way). Please try to have your own thoughts too or i'll be inclined to vote you for piggybacking your way through the game, that's no fun because we've got MoScum to lynch.

[White]

MoS, you're digging yourself a grave. Refusing to help the town is purely a scummy tactic. Making things personal, not protown at all. In fact i've yet to see you do anything protown, care to show me otherwise?

MoScum is the lynch for today.

[White]

Well, if it makes any difference I really don't like to lurk, currently i've got way too much time on my hands even with full time school so I just like to hang out around here. If i'm lurking, you better get me to give a reason. That or i'm really depressed (not ruling it out).

Ok, so would you say Tyhess is acting more like mafia or cultist?
What do you think of MoS's deliberate refusal to help the town find scum?
Thanks for posting your scumdar!

Mod, did you prod the lurkers(Acfan and Flame)?

Mod Edit: Both have posted in the last day....

[White]

My bad.

[White]

think I stated I do not think defensiveness on a whole is scummy (some peopel think you are being defensive)...if someone is attacking you (scum or town) you defend yourself. I guess your problem is how he is doing it suggests he is scum to you...am I right? do I need to reread your post again?

Yes, everyone is going to defend themself. That's the norm and when you don't (as MoS is so aptly demonstrating at times) you draw suspicion. However, there's a level of defensiveness that is just too much, for example:

I Vote Guardian opening of page 1, my first post. He then get's on and claims doctor and swears at me to remove my vote and calls me all sorts of names. That would be way above and beyond what is necessary and he would then be promptly lynched. It could be called hyperdefensive or whatever you want but the reaction doesn't fit the accusation.

Wow, i'm thrilled with all the progress that's been made today! Go town!

I like Tyhess's idea to post your top 3 candidates, that way we can focus on who's the most suspect and maybe start pressuring them, perhaps get a day1 crack.

MoS seems scummiest to me, evasiveness and complete uselessness to town
Tyhess is second, bandwagons galore and weak arguments, no original thoughts either except this one
Acfan is third, shameless lurking and of the few posts he's made i've not agreed with any(or most) of them

[White]

White

I dislike white's analysises. Basically you're either newb, scum, or neutral.

I'm not sure if you remember this or not but there are only 2 catagories of people in this game. Town and not town. Not town can be broken up further into Mafia and cult. So for me to say everyone is either town or not town....that's kinda obvious. Also, I made the conclusion that Acfan and Flame were sketchy and MoS was scum through doing my analysis.

There are also quite a few newer players (myself included) in this game...what's wrong with saying that?

I second Vollkan, what do you disagree with in my posts?

[White]

Just that some players seem more intent on maintaining a personal image than assisting the town.

*cough*MoS*cough*

Mod, did Acfan pick up his prod? Is he getting replaced? Can we get a status report on him?

Mod Edit: He posted less than 48 hours ago...

Theo, I suggest (for the sake of the town and yourself) saying something like i'll post my thoughts in 72 hours or something. Right now you're being about as bad as MoS, evading and unhelpful as anything.

Tyhess, i'm going to have to agree with Vollkan here, focusing solely on 3 people for extended periods of time allows the mafia to sneak under the radar for a while, not to mention the mafia can go ahead and just kill one of our candidates while we're pressuring them and we lose all that time and info.

[White]

Yeah, seems for the most part you've gotta ask some of these people straight up using their name to get their attention, I'm curious about what Pwayne thinks though as he's been contributory.

Honestly I do want Acfan to start contributing and i'm generally against lynching lurkers based on a recent game where that backfired but there's a fine line to walk between lynching lurkers for deadweight and lynching scummy lurkers. I haven't decided which on Acfan is though based on his...lack of posts.

Thanks mod!

[White]

How about some participation from you. Who are you thinking are the most suspicious 3?

[White]

I like Tyhess's idea to post your top 3 candidates, that way we can focus on who's the most suspect and maybe start pressuring them, perhaps get a day1 crack.

MoS seems scummiest to me, evasiveness and complete uselessness to town
Tyhess is second, bandwagons galore and weak arguments, no original thoughts either except this one
Acfan is third, shameless lurking and of the few posts he's made i've not agreed with any(or most) of them

QFT, Reading FTW.

[White]

Oh gotcha. Hey, have you posted how you feel about it?

[White]

Well, how about who you think we would benefit most from focusing on?

AC post some content or ask for a replacement

QFT

[White]

Scummy, newbish, looks town, lurker scum die scum, neutral.

I'd much rather we got some thoughts from Blackstrike, Flameaxe and ac1983 because all three are definately not in my looks town category at the moment.

Better than nothing.

I've found that focusing really heavily on lurkers slows down the game a real lot. Like a real real lot...they're lurkers. Expanded interests work wonders, not all scum and culties will lay low. I wouldn't be surprised if Vollkan turned up cultist.

[White]

How then do you feel on the past 9 pages?

Just a reminder, we've got 6 days until deadline and the highest amount of votes (as of last vote count pg 16) was 4.

[White]

Ok, I think i'd be ok with a MoS lynch and probably a Tyhess lynch. I'm unsettled on the Acfan wagon and not ready to lynch Theo.

Theo, could you give us your insights with a time limit? Seeing as we've got a deadline perhaps you could tell us how you feel 2 days before the deadline so we can start to wagon a guy and give time for a defence before lynching/changing wagons?

[White]

Oh wow....I wonder why I thought the 24th....

You seem to want me to post a case on someone and then hope it's good enough to get a wagon on em and kind of let me take the blame, in a weird way.

Nah, I just want to make sure you can put your word in on the lynch and i'm interested in your thoughts. I also want to give the person that get's wagon'd enough time to respond and deal with the accusations so that we don't mislynch.

[White]

Could it be because you're acting like scum? Evading questions? Being anti town? (please answer these questions)
You're setting yourself up for being lynched and if you turn up town...not too many people will be saddened, some people (myself included) would call you deadweight. You are contributing next to nothing.

[White]

Ok then, care to elaborate on what you're doing and how it's effective? I also don't see how you drawing suspicion to yourself isn't giving the scum an easy ride to tomorrow...

[White]

So you're saying you're deliberately encouraging people to bandwagon you and we're supposed to then sort out who's taking an easy ride and ignore the others? Or are we supposed to look for....?

That sounds like a really bad plan there MoS....heck, even if I were scum i'd be attacking you. Gosh, it's an easy way to look like i'm helping the town by attacking someone that willingly submits themself to it. Dude...that's really....not IC-ish...

Not sure whether you're scum now or not but that's a really bad and unthought out plan....

Are you saying you're giving yourself up for a lynch? Because if not then your plan fails miserably.

[White]

I was waiting to say this but that's not really a list of suspicions...that's a list of actions...attacking you isn't scumming necessarily, nor is defending you. Could you actually list your suspicions? Heck, if we want to see who's attacking you...it's not that hard.

[White]

MoS, I find it really hard to believe that's what you've been doing. Setting yourself up as scummy and then expecting everyone to flop away from your bandwagon because you come up with a lame and uncreative excuse is just newbish. This isn't a newbie game, as has been pointed out, so why in the WORLD would you expect the mafia to be classic mass produced stereotypical scum? My vote is staying on you for now but if you could hunt and mount a case (separate from "**** voted me, therefore they are scum") i'll be more willing to take my vote off of you. Hopefully (if you're town) you'll learn from this mistake. Acting scummy when you're town never ever works.

I must've missed where CKD was being a jerk to me...I don't feel any hard feelings toward him at all....?

[White]

I can. Especially from someone like MoS. Not scumhunting is interchangable with allowing scum to live another day. If you're not hunting, you're helping. As for his defending suspected townie? That would be called buddying up to the town. Scummy again.

[White]

You're almost as bad as White. It's sad how you guys are calling my strategies stupid when you do shit like this.

Guess what? I also got lynched for bulling this crap. I would've expected much more from you, shame.

[quote="MoS]You tell me I shouldn't expect scum to do any classic moves or be stereotypically scummy. Yet, when I act like a stereotypical scum, not answering questions, not actively helping the town, you think I'm scum?[/quote]
Scum, used as a plural. Seeing as you're experience but choosing to ignore such knowledge and act like newb scum, yes, I can see you being stereotypical. However I find it hard to believe your partner to be stereotypical other than that they may be on your wagon because of your likelihood of going down the drain.

Btw, stop putting words in my mouth. I never EVER said don't expect the scum to do anything classic or stereotypical. That's actions. I said don't expect the scum (people) to be mass produced stereotypes. Oh...and nice ever reactions there bud, 4 lines with 4 swear words. Did I hit a nerve?

My vote is staying on you for now but if you could hunt and mount a case (separate from "**** voted me, therefore they are scum") i'll be more willing to take my vote off of you.

Uh...waiting...

[White]

You're almost as bad as White. It's sad how you guys are calling my strategies stupid when you do shit like this.

Guess what? I also got lynched for bulling this crap. I would've expected much more from you, shame.

This makes even less sense. You're saying you got lynched for acting like I'm acting? Then you shouldn't think that I'm scum for acting this way. You should know from past experience that it's a bad lynch.

I did it as a newb. You're experienced. An experienced player can't pull the newb card.

You tell me I shouldn't expect scum to do any classic moves or be stereotypically scummy. Yet, when I act like a stereotypical scum, not answering questions, not actively helping the town, you think I'm scum?

Scum, used as a plural. Seeing as you're experience but choosing to ignore such knowledge and act like newb scum, yes, I can see you being stereotypical. However I find it hard to believe your partner to be stereotypical other than that they may be on your wagon because of your likelihood of going down the drain.

Hmm. So, you think that because I'm acting like newb scum, I'm experienced scum? This makes no sense. Please explain how me acting like a newb makes me an experienced scum. That's a contradiction in and of itself. It sounds like if I was acting more reasonably you'd say I was experienced scum, and if I act less reasonably, I'm acting like newb scum, but I'm still experienced. Not only does this defy logic, you're just fitting the circumstances to the assumption that I'm scum, rather than taking the facts and seeing if they actually make sense.

Bad Idea II, you intentionally killed a player so that it would look like the scum were newbs when in reality it was just a diversion. It's not beyond you to try and pull this again.

Btw, stop putting words in my mouth. I never EVER said don't expect the scum to do anything classic or stereotypical. That's actions. I said don't expect the scum (people) to be mass produced stereotypes. Oh...and nice ever reactions there bud, 4 lines with 4 swear words. Did I hit a nerve?

Actually, it was more like 1 line with 1 swear word. Learn to count, bud. Even if you're scum retardedly religious dude that thinks stuff like "stupid" is a swear word, there were only 3 in 4 lines. However, bullshit is merely an adjective used to describe something that is a ludicrously false statement, but combined into one word. Ass is not a swear word, either. "My ass" is merely an expression of incredulity. There is nothing vulgar about it.

Irrelevant other than that Ass is a swear word (you could use butt, but you didn't) and shit (regardless of being coupled with bull, which could've been used on it's own) is a swear word. Btw, you never dealt with the content of the post, you nitpicked an assessment that has nothing to do with the game at hand. Please deal with the content this time and stop being so anti town evasive.

My vote is staying on you for now but if you could hunt and mount a case (separate from "**** voted me, therefore they are scum") i'll be more willing to take my vote off of you.

Uh...waiting...

When I find someone I'm sure is scum, I'll make a case for them to be scum. You don't need me to guide you around like sheep. This statement is a complete contradiction of what you've been saying. Before it's always "he's obvscum", but now you'd be more willing to unvote me if I just attack someone? That makes no sense.

Nice mischaracterization there. I said when you start hunting scum (read helping the town) then I won't really have a reason to vote you. However that sentiment is rapidly disapating.

I didn't play how scum *should* play, which is what you're implying. No scum that actually knows what they're doing would act like this, but newb scum don't know what they're doing.

Hmm, so that automatically clears you? By simply pointing this out it means you are aware of it and could be twisting it to suit your purposes. Besides, what better way to clear an experienced player than to act like a newb?

There are town on every wagon, but people still look for scum on wagons, yes? There is no reason it can't be done in this instance..........I gave the town a wagon, and there is very, very likely to be one scum found on it.

Ok, so what was presented as a main point and intention of acting scummy now appears to be a logical conclusion. Oh, well since I looked like scum, you can pretty much expect that scum would try and push for an innocent lynch. Isn't that logical? As opposed to your previous stance of, I did it to set a trap for scum, deliberately intent on catching scummy bandwagon pushers! Flip flop much on your main point?

Unvote, Vote: Trojan Horse

This here just looks like an attempt to redirect the attention on him. It's not a case like I was asking for.

[White]

Shameless Filler Post (I want to see the vote count, been waiting to ask since this pages was half full)

[White]

Mod Edit

Official Vote Count #18

Mastermind of Sin[5](White, pwayne66, tyhess, Trojan Horse, Oman)
tyhess[2](ac1983fan, Flameaxe)
ac1983fan[2](theopor_COD, curiouskarmadog)
theopor_COD[1](vollkan)
Flameaxe[1](Dr. Blackstrike)
Trojan Horse[1](Mastermind of Sin)


Not Voting[0]()

Insert Post Count:

[White]

...you must be on scum chat.

Vote: Oman

(notice the lack of bold)

[White]

Wow. Lots to read over night.

Ok, first off i'd like to say that Oman has (this is in agreement with what has already been posted) been acting very strange. I'm not sure whether it's scummy or just idiotic yet though.

The reason I never asked for a claim was because 1) He wasn't at -1 and 2) we had already had this nice big conversation saying rolefishing and asking for claims should be seen as scummy. In addition, the setup of this game makes claiming a very difficult situation for reasons we're all aware of.

MoS, read my whole posts next time. I metagamed you from Bad Idea II where you (as scum) killed someone to make it look like the scum was some newbie thereby discrediting yourself as scum. The reason this is applicable is because we were talking about your "tactic" to lure scum and how it was newbish and you said something along the lines of you couldn't do it because you're not a newb.

MoS, i've yet to see you actually do anything about analysing scum on and off your wagon other than to state the obvious. If you're not scum then OBVIOUSLY the other scum are on or off your wagon. That's just stupid and stating the obvious. Your vote on Trojan looked OMGUS to me.

I'm quite wary of the 2 votes that were -3 and -2 on the MoS wagon because they seemed not only opportunistic but hasty and given with little reason. Trojan, are we to believe you don't think MoS is scum other than for that one post preceding your vote? Because you unvoted saying that your concern was dealt with. The point made above your vote was sketchy at best.

[White]

Ah yes, and last thing was supposed to be about the frenzy to unvote. MoS didn't claim, he was only at -2 (thought to be -1). That shouldn't really alert anyone because in order for MoS to get there he needs to be the most suspicious person. The votes follow the suspicion, there's really no need to have 3 people unvote as if he claimed or something. He did no such thing at all! Stop being so wishy washy. Don't vote unless you think the person is very likely to be scum or you're ok with the person being lynched. If you're not settled, don't vote. With everyone unvoting i'm thinking that one of them must be MoS's partner distancing but not ready to lynch his buddy.

My vote stands strong.

[White]

It's not useful to evade questions indefinitely. That would be retarded.

Oh, my, GOSH. Get real MoS. There's no way to know (in the moment) whether you're going to evade questions indefinitely. You're the only one that knows how long you'll continue to evade. You can't expect anyone else to know that.

[White]

I also know that failure to lynch at this point sets a dangerous precedent: that you are not accountable for what you say or for defending your positions.

QFT, I couldn't have said it better, this is what I was trying to say before.

Btw, I think this is least applicable to Pwayne as he was the first to unvote. The other people are the ones that i'm looking at strangely.

[White]

I'm going to wait for Tyhess' question to be answered. MoS did bring up a point and i'm curious to see what follows.

The other 36 games will prove you wrong.

*laugh* Dismissed *laugh*

You should listen to the people that can compare my play as scum to this game.

If you read my posts you would never have said this. I said in a previous post that the very fact that you mentions this opens up the strong possibility that you are twisting it to fit your desires. If someone else brought it up, that would be different. But it's easy for you to bank on the fact that you're changing your playstyle to fit this game independently and then making such an absurd statement that implies you never change your style.

The theory that only newbies would've done it was a godsend that I used to play the entire town, but it certainly was never something that I would've thought of. So no, this isn't something I do as scum.

I do believe you never stated that in the thread. Hence my inevitable conclusion. Oh, of course not. Why would I ever think an experienced player would do something different? Haha, no, they are all the same and stuck in their invarying ways. /sarcasm

It's retarded to lynch people without giving them a chance to claim.

Agreed. However, you were at the supposedly -1 for quite a while. Over a day I believe (in this game, that's quite a while) so in all actuality you had your chance to claim, you just didn't.

[White]

So you're saying a killing can't serve more than one purpose? How do you win?

[White]

Way to butter up.

[White]

Being unkind with no content is COMPLETELY PROSCUM.

[White]

You suck at bandwagoning for pressure.

I don't like how hard you're pushing the MoS wagon.

I don't know what you'd call it but I like to call it pressure. Contradiction? Yes.

FoS: Oman

Defending MoS when MoS has shown himself able to defend himself perfectly fine, and contradicting yourself.

[White]

So a vote can't serve two purposes? Black and white much?

Pressure initially, led to enough suspicion to cause a lynch. That second quote was to people that were putting MoS up near the chopping block. When you get votes that high, DUH you better be voting to kill.

Lrn2play kthxbai

[White]

Look at it in context.

[White]

Hmm. I'm unsettled on MoS currently but i'm not sure I can really point to anything and say "Here! This makes you look like scum" or "Btw MoS, you didn't answer this and i'm still waiting". I guess it's more of a general aggitation as I really can't see how he's been helpful or done anything other than distract the rest of us from hunting scum (if he's town).

I guess for now i'll

unvote: MoS

but if he starts being worthless again that vote is going back on him.

[White]

To answer your question, i'd prefer a best guess lynch over a no lynch.

Welcome Kakeng.

[White]

An extension to next Friday would be nice. I think we're getting pretty good activity now, but it's really dumb to have a lynch rushed when we're finally getting back on track with out discussion instead of just talking about me all the time.

For what it's worth, I would like an extension also.

Yeah, if it has any bearing put me down.

Gonna have to agree with this here. Now that we're getting back on track i'd like that extention.

Oman, sometimes I wonder if you could just not say things. I'm not saying you just pulled a scummy manuever but more of a stupid newbie attempt at craplogic to lead a case against someone. Still trying to figure out if you're just a newb or if you're doing this deliberately.

[White]

Welcome to the game, enjoy the read.

[White]

I'm not getting you MoS. What's the meta I should be seeing?

[White]

Flame....stop spaming.

MoS, i'm one of the first 3 people to request a deadline extention.

[White]

My schedule apologizes to you Oman. My post was a fucking joke I posted at work right before I left.

^^Scummy over reaction to 1 vote.

Flame, let's add a little heat.

Vote: Flameaxe

I'd like to second the motion for you to disclose some opinions. If you've read the thread then you should have no problem giving us your thoughts on who's scummy and perhaps revise your vote to reflect differently if need be.

I'm not really getting scum vibes from Kakeng but i'm not seeing too much of an attempt to hunt scum. However I just replaced into a massive 100+ page game and didn't start scum hunting until i'd finished reading up and started to get a grasp on the players so I wouldn't judge him until he's finished reading up and starts playing.

[White]

The reason why you haven't seen any hardcore feelings from me yet is because... well... I sadly don't have any yet.

That right there sounds scummy. As town you should definitely have opinions on a game that is

27

pages in. There is no excuse.

FoS: TH

[White]

My issues with MoS were that he wasn't searching for scum. His attempt to try and trap scum was his main reason which he later changed his mind on a bit. He was generally being unhelpful to the town. I found him to be overly defensive and he refused to answer questions for the beginning of the game.

He seems to have decided to seek scum more currently. I still don't like what he did and there's no excuse in my mind but that's not enough to lynch someone for. He's being much more helpful to the town right now. I still see him as defensive but not over the top. He's answering the questions that are posed to him.

My reasons for voting him are no longer valid or as valid as I believe they need to be for a lynch.

I would like to start my analysis on White and Tyhess

There are two ways (that i'm aware of) to read this. 1) You want to start your analysis of everyone by starting on me and Tyhess. 2) You want to start your post/analysis/overall analysis of White and Tyhess with this post...

Looking at both 1 and 2, you've not said what you set out to do. I believe everyone is still waiting on your scumdar and you gave a very one dimensional attack on me/Tyhess which could also be called a strong attempt at a defense of a wagon that's dead. Please try to keep up will you?

My vote stands. Your whole posts reeks of OMGUS and i'd like to see you start helping the town rather than rant about something that doesn't matter. I thought you read the whole thread?

[White]

What pressure? You didn't even vote me. *laugh*

[White]

Well currently i'm not feeling any pressure and I (very easily) dismissed your case so i'm kinda confused why you think you've actually got something.

[White]

Ah sorry. I'm hungry and tired, I haven't eaten in 4 days and slept terribly the past 3 nights because of it. That's no excuse, I rescind my statement.

However i'd really like some harder core opinions.

[White]

Actually i'd really like some reasoning behind your statement. I don't think it's OMGUS because I haven't attacked you (even though you're acting like it). Currently I see that you don't like my defence, ok, fair enough. Point out what you don't like and i'll go ahead and try and explain it in a way that makes more sense to you.

[White]

*sigh* You really are having trouble here aren't you?

Ok, i'll try and break this down.

I said you whole post (intended to be singular) reeks of OMGUS (your attack on me).

You, later, said you expected me to gasp and shout out how your vote on me was soooo unbelieably OMGUS.

I then disproved you and stated I didn't think your vote on me was OMGUS because I haven't attacked you.

Still waiting on what you don't like about my defence.

[White]

Vote White

thus I shall return.

Trying to start a bandwagon? Feel free to give some reasoning.

Flame, still waiting on what you don't like about my defence.

[White]

Are you trying to get yourself killed? You're not acting like town at all....

[White]

You're no

obligated

by any means. However good town play would dictate trying to catch the scum and if you believe i'm scum then you would want to convince other people that i'm scum too and you're not doing that. You're throwing something more along the lines of a fussy tantrum, completely unhelpful for the town.

Side note, i'm not getting town vibes here either. Even though my vote was to gain a reaction the reaction i've seen is nothing near town so i'm pretty happy with my vote.

[White]

You do realize that your petty ad hom isn't helpful right? What about rule 5?

5) Have fun & respect each other (and me)

If you don't stop you may get modkilled and that'd be no good because then we'd need a replacement. I'm pretty sure you can help us if you want to but....you're not...

[White]

As am I.

I'd like to see this please. Can you quote some posts of yours?

You need to learn that different people have different way of catching scum.

Is yours setting up an attack and then voting the attacked when they dispell your case? Please show me how you catch scum.

[White]

Well if you're not going to play by the rules i'm going to ask the mod to replace you or modkill you. Are you willing to abide by the rules you supposedly agreed to when you chose to start this game?

[White]

You said you didn't like my defence but failed to defend that stance. That means to me either you're having a hissy fit and don't want to cooperate and try to win (as scum or town) or you don't have any defence. Which is it?

[White]

You know, i'm very curious as to what other people think of my interactions with Flameaxe. I've tried to be levelheaded and approach this as decently as I could but it almost feels like i'm wasting my time. What do the rest of you think of all of this?

[White]

Could you be a little more precise about things than "I don't like"?

No.

Don't feel like cooperating with you, basically. Just you.

Just me? Lynch all Liars?

[White]

I'm simply pointing out that you lied and contradicted yourself. Is that your defence?

[White]

Alright then MoS, I'll commit. Not happy about it, but I'll commit.

*gasp* I can't believe I missed this. Darn my over focusing.

Dude TH, NEVER vote because someone's pressuring you to ESPECIALLY if you're not happy about it. Dude you look so scummy right now. You're lucky I feel better about Flame or my vote would be on you right now.

MegaFoS: Trojan Horse

[White]

Ok, are you going to give a defence?

Point out one thing that does have a 100% success rate. There are none, LaL seems a decent alternative at times. I haven't decided whether this is one of those times yet.

[White]

I feel Pwayne has been decent contributions and stayed away from nitpicking and needless spamming overall. I feel Pwayne is likely to be town aligned.

I have no clue about Tar as first off I wasn't really keeping up with who he replaced and he hasn't really done much so far(I think he's still rereading).

I have found myself agreeing with Tyhess a lot earlier in the thread but don't like that everyone seems to be lumping me and him together. I don't like how he's jumped from bandwagon to bandwagon and hasn't seemed to come up with very many of his own ideas. I can't say if he's town or scum because honestly his play has left me confused.

MoS, how do you feel about Vollkan, Theopor_COD and Flameaxe?

[White]

MoS, i've gotta give you kudos on 726. I just love that post, :goodposting:.

Trojan, if you don't see someone as super scummy you can do one of two things in my opinion. You can vote them anyway as your lead candidate or you can do what I like to do. Make some waves and check the responce meter.

Newbie 408, I replaced in on the 12th page and did what I could to salvage a semi lost cause. I lost.
Newbie 427, I'm not proud of this one, I kinda straddled the fence in it and didn't contribute much more than the quicklynch hammer for the win.
Newbie 463, I replaced mafia in this one and again, straddled the fence and took other people's ideas and kinda sat there with them.
Sadly in reviewing these i'm seeing a pitiful MO. I straddle the fence as mafia and make waves (generally getting me lynched) as town. If you don't believe me you've got the links. Make your own call, I just figured i'd get the links for you. This is all on my Wiki page.

As a last note, i'm going to be V/LA until Sunday, Monday at the latest.

[White]

I'm starting to feel that way. But at first, no I didn't think he was scum. I thought he was an inexperienced player having trouble getting off the ground. Then I looked at his join date.

[White]

I found 753 funny btw.

Ok well, I guess we're waiting on Kekeng because I think Tar posted he won't have internet until Monday down in V/LA.

[White]

Check V/LA, I think he posted there.

[White]

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: 719

You can ask for a prod but before you do, i'd suggest coming up with some questions or something to ask him that way he's not just showing up and saying, "Hi! I'm here...." and that's it.

[White]

Ok....uh....deadline on Oct 12 and the largest bandwagon has...2 votes. In-credible.

In an attempt to help consentrate our efforts, I guess I wouldn't mind a TH lynch or a Kekeng lynch. I think we would learn a lot from a MoS lynch but I don't think i'm ready to lynch him yet as he's shown some attitude and interest. I would personally prefer a Flameaxe lynch though.

[White]

Care to add your thoughts? Who you would prefer for a lynch today? Perhaps...why you prefer them? Who you think we'd get a lot of info from if they were lynched and who you could be talked into compromising and lynching because you're currently very suspicious of them already?

[White]

White: See my post a few pages ago (27).

I love your post, thank you again for posting and helping out.

I do recall addressing your post. Could this time you tell me what points in my defence you didn't like or weren't adequate?

[White]

I'm in an ongoing game with Kakeng and I can verify that he has been completely absent from that game as well. I highly doubt he's lurking on purpose.

[White]

whoa... It's no wonder I am having trouble keeping my games from bleeding together. White, theo and Kakeng are all in another game with me.

Isn't it fun? I think i'm in 3-4 games with Theo atm.

[White]

I think it'll turn into a trojan lynch if Tar and Kak don't speak up but we're waiting for them.

[White]

I don't really mind a or c but b? I mean come on. There's no reason you can't pick apart someone. What about when me and Flame were going at it for those few pages? You had plenty of time. Saying you've been so busy defending yourself that you couldn't hunt scum is a lie. Stop lying MoS.

[White]

I didn't understand much more than that there were words in that post but I didn't really comprehend it.

[White]

Pwayne, you're not alone.

Ok, my own tentative deadline is for the 10th. I think it'd be best if we all start putting people on the chopping block and getting defences by then. That'll give us 2-4 days (I forget what the deadline is) to figure out what we're going to do and get organized. We can't just sit around and wait here for lurkers that evidently aren't even checking the thread.

Who else is in favor of cracking down around the 10th?

[White]

Half Jest? Come on man, every time TH has made a post in semi jest he's been attacked for it. I think we're all antsy. However, I think this thing between MoS and Tyhess is interesting. Pwayne, Tyhess has been and pretty much every reasonably big wagon.

[White]

That struck me as an attempt to buddy up to me. Noted.

[White]

Right now i'm still waiting on Kakeng and Tar to actually add some content. They've got 5 days left. If no content is added I don't mind a Tar or Kakeng lynch but i'd definintely significantly much prefer them to be replaced.

[White]

Ahh, too true. Which is why my intended result isn't so much to lynch them but to pressure them into talking. However it's not really effective when you get people that either don't care about the game or aren't even checking the thread.

[White]

I don't see any difference other than the added smiley face. What was the point of that MoS?

[White]

Please tell me you've got more to add than that. You've got 35 pages.

[White]

Ok, feel free to put all those posts together into one big post please.

[White]

Unvote, Vote Kakeng

There's no excuse.

[White]

Ugh. Tar....

Ok, Tar and Kakeng both have to die. If we've got a vig you better kill the other one of these. I'm ok with a Tar or Kakeng lynch today. Currently the bigger wagon is on Kakeng (I think?) so that's where my vote will be.

[White]

Alrighty, if you don't want to play the game, get replaced. Otherwise i'm pushing for your lynch. You're cult fodder and are ruining it for your replacement. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Unvote, Vote Tarhalindur

[White]

Actually CKD does have a point. What if we end up getting the cult recruiter (albeit unlikely) in Kakeng? Why should we pass up the leader for the likely to be recruited?

Either way, I don't mind which get's lynched today, would prefer kakeng, both need to die.

Unvote, Vote: Kakeng

[White]

Bicker more please.

[White]

^^ WIFOM

[White]

We wanna lynch lurkerscum Kakeng.

[White]

After thinking about this for a while if we're going to lynch Tar it would be in our BEST INTEREST to lynch him after he's been converted. That way we end up killing a culty which used up a recruit. There's also the distinct possibility that he'll get NKed by the mafia. Lynching him now is a pretty bad move. I'm against it. It took me a while to come to this conclusion but unless something more happens, i'm not voting Tar today.

[White]

Ok, lots to read and think about. As I stated 2 pages ago, i'm against a Tar lynch today, if we have a vig I would love them forever if they killed Tar or Kakeng. However after thinking and reading the scenarios presented by Vollkan and general observations. We stand to gain very very little from a Kakeng lynch. We lynch a lurker and have little to no new information about his teammates if he's scum or cult.

I'm not as suspicious of Pwayne for the anti town strategy that he's pushing so much as the fact that he's fighting tooth and nail for us to lynch a claimed protown role. As MoS pointed out, lynching Tar has so little benefit because the cult (assuming it's not Tar) will attempt to recruit someone else anyway. I stand by the fact that I will not be voting Tar today. I'm much more hessitant about voting Kakeng as well due to the fact that we'd pretty much be starting back on Day 1 again.

Therefore the most suspicious person to me is Pwayne for overzealous defense of Tar and anti town ideas. Oman is close second though because reading someone in isolation and then making claims about someone else without reading in context is really bad play and you would've gotten away with bad play and not caring about the validity of your posts had someone not mentioned it.

Unvote, Vote Pwayne
FoS: Oman

[White]

Ok, post your thoughts on everyone. Ie. White has been very helpful and cooperative. He's been very analytical and done a great job scumhunting. My guess would be that's he's town.

Btw, that's just an example, not my actual thoughts or anything.

[White]

Pwayne, I like scumdars because when people are lynched and nked, we get to see their opinions of everyone. If you're scum you can lead us to your buddies through what you post as your scumdar. I also like to get a feel for how your opinions of people have changed through what they've done. Does it look like a faked scumdar or a real scumdar. Yours looks fake.

"MoS - was stupid early on
Oman - short inaccurate summary
Kakeng - seems town, gut
Vollkan - too townie, must be scum
Tar - prob town, oh look, irony
CKD - i don't like him, he twisted my words purposely
Tyhess - dunno [side note, if he keeps pinging your scum senses and then lurking...why do you not think he's scum?]
TH - dunno, town?
Flameaxe - short summary
White - don't like him
Theo - short summary"

Notice how so little of this has definite opinions? I see that you don't like a few of us and other than that you say you think some people could be town but where's the definite opinions? Who's scummy? It's page 41 for heavens sake! Unexcusable. I'm happy with my vote.

[White]

Pwayne, mocking me is unhelpful. However I do indeed appreciate you clarifying. Btw, your Tyhess explanation is fence sitting.

Btw, quoting all my suspicions, what is the point of that? I throw my vote around to acheive pressure mostly. You also discredit the use of information gathered after a vote that makes one change their vote.

MoS - Didn't like his stunt that he pulled earlier, seemed scummy to me but recently he's been actively participating and asking questions and though i'm wary of him i'd have to put him in the townie pile.

Oman - I think I defended Oman earlier on but now I regret it, he has added so little and mocked other people. His scumhunting posts could probably be listed on 1 hand. Really is a shame. Would have to put him in the scum pile.

Ok, i'm going to finish this up later because class is over.

[White]

Sorry, forgot about this when I came home. Continuing where I left off:

Kakeng - acfan was worthless, Kakeng is worthless. There's almost nothing here to look at. If lurkers had a posterboy, they would look over here. However kakeng has taken it a bit farther and lied to us and contributed absolutely nothing. Deserves to die today or tomorrow, preferably tomorrow but today I wouldn't be uspet with.

Vollkan - I still feel he's town. Hasn't really done that much that i've disagreed with and even when I do disagree with him it still looks like he's scum hunting. I'd put him in the townie pile.

Tar - Dr BS had an anti town mindset in the beginning of the game, then he disappeared and now Tar has claimed vanilla. I'm believing his claim of townie for now but I suggest we lynch him tomorrow or the next day at the latest because it can only be said that he'll be recruited soon.

CKD - Got a townie feel from him at first but that's kinda dropped off some with his most recent posts. He seems to be attacking for the sake of attacking rather than actually trying to show his side and show how his side is more accurate. However I can't really say that's scummy but would rather put that as a playstyle difference. Gonna put him in the townie pile too.

Pwayne - I was actually quite enjoying his posts earlier in the thread. He seemed to be biased in favor of the town, adding legit ideas, contributing to the thread and scumhunting but most recently he's been spouting a bad idea and that severely detracts from my view of him. Due to this I can't really say much about his alignment but feel he's our best shot at getting the CR and if that fails he'll be a great information lynch. However now that i'm thinking about it I do recall feeling he was town at first and i'm not ready to lynch him yet.

Unvote: Pwayne

. Notice how I said yet. If it comes down to no lynch or Pwayne i'll be voting Pwayne.

Tyhess - Honestly even though I dispise his bandwagoning to much and his lack of forethought and contribution I can't help but get the newbie town feel from him. I wish I could say otherwise to fit in but fitting in isn't my top priority. I guess to take a page from Pwayne analysis of Tyhess i'll have to fence sit here and not comment on alignment.

TH - Ah yes, TH. Consistently cracking jokes at bad times and seemingly making newbish mistakes. However his join date suggests otherwise. Even though I know we've been over this I keep getting a scummy feeling from him. Thinking about it now I guess I wouldn't mind a TH lynch today but I do think it would be better to keep him around for a day or two more. Between Pwayne and TH i'd vote TH.

Flameaxe - This needn't take long. Seems anti town. Can't get over his bias against me to contribute much. Refuses to scumhunt more than the rare time or two. I'd throw him in the scum pile and wouldn't mind lynching him today but the winds are blowing elsewhere so i'm not going to waste my time pursuing something that won't actually happen today.

Theo - Hasn't actually contributed a whole lot. I'd really like to see more out of him.

[White]

*sigh* This game is really going poorly. Kakeng, if you're actually protown stop lurking and help us out.

Vote: Flameaxe

[White]

^^ Scummy. Cult is a problem at all times, ALL times.

FoS: Oman