433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[somestrangeflea]

Reread blah blah post later etc... You know the drill.

[somestrangeflea]

Unvote

if SS was voting.

Wow, already down to 8? I find that weird because this is the first game with more than one NK in any one night, AFAICR. Ah well, c'est la vie, vive la difference, etc...

[somestrangeflea]

Apologies. When I replace in, especially in longer games such as this, I don't like making huge posts which analyse everything. I prefer to play the game as if it's just started, with a brief read-through to catch up on key events, such as the Dodgy/CES Claim/Unclaim, and the massclaim.

[somestrangeflea]

Wow, SS's really screwed me over with some awful play regarding pressuring gorckat and his "long post" he said he'd do and then didn't. With the evidence given, and from a NPOV, a vote for SS is probably a safe option.

I can't defend myself from what SS has done, the best I can do is attempt to help you with the scumhunt now.

[somestrangeflea]

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen.

This is always a slight scumtell in my mind. It seems to me that players who claim to want something to happen (or, at least, the first in a "wanting something to happen" group"), are scum more often than not.

I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive.

But how am I meant to defend myself against what SS did?

But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared.

That's

exactly

what I did! You don't get any points though, because it was

fairly

obvious.

That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

Why would scum be more likely to "vanish" in a no-win situation than Townies? The situation is equally dire for a player of either alignment!

[somestrangeflea]

SSF I have no idea, but we also have an SK role still out there too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked this was a closed setup. Why are you assuming there is an SK?

3) I am a townie who purposely moves his vote around in order to get reactions and figure out who is who. I reanalyze the bandwagon constantly instead of sticking with my gut feeling.

Since when was Wishy-Washy voting a valid tactic? I can see bandwagonning and being erratic to gain information on Day 1, but beyond that point, it begins to look scummy.

[somestrangeflea]

And forgetting about stuff like that is why I'm so poor at this game...

[somestrangeflea]

At this point, ssf is posting elsewhere and hasn't put in nearly the kind of effort I'd have hoped for to save his skin. I don't know whether this is out-of-game laziness or a deliberate choice, but either way it's not making me a happy Dasquian

I'm keeping up with this, and I'm not posting, although to be honest, I don't know why... There's something about this game that is making it incredibly difficult for me to actually think of words to say...

I will, however, say that I am slightly disturbed by Dasquian beginning to create cases on other players (namely PJ) based on the assumption that I'm scum. DO NOT WANT. =P

[somestrangeflea]

I've never been clear on the whole "benefits of a massclaim" idea... this is only my 4th game. Can someone break it down for me?

Won't mafia simply all claim townie? How does that help us?

Sometimes the roles have something in common or some sort of flavor, or something that will help us know the claim is true, and usually scum, well not usually, but sometimes, scum will claim power role and take a chance, and then there could be a counter,

with three deaths last night, we know we have killing scum, prolly vig, and prolly a sk.

So it will narrow it down quite a bit.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see something wrong with the bold?

Not really, no. Kilm was showing uncertainty in a role which she hadn't yet claimed. as OTM says, there's nothing wrong with a vig saying "there might not be a vig".

Now, had she already claimed, then yes, your point would be valid, and Kilm would be in a lot of trouble. As it stands... not so much.

[somestrangeflea]

SSF, just set aside a single freaking real-life day for this one game. It is not that difficult to read through this game - it takes two to three hours to read it in detail, and you've been in the game for about 18 real-life days now - bordering on three weeks.

Done, a number of weeks ago.

Don't like your patronizing attitude much.

[somestrangeflea]

Pretty much your only comment about Day One was along the lines of "Wow, SS's really screwed me over". I'm not sure how I'm supposed to believe you've read the thread a couple weeks ago when that's your only commentary.

Anyone who interested me during Day 1 is dead now, so I wasted no time commenting on it. TBH, you've all been quite unoutstanding Day 1, which, ironically makes you all quite good townies. Well done, BTW, you've all made my life hell.

Furthermore, the fact that your response to allegations against SSF is "well, I can't defend what SSF did" is scummier than townie - townspeople are much more likely to actually defend their predecessor on what points that they can, whereas scum are much more likely to try to ask for people to judge them from a clean slate.

False dilemma FTW.
I neither tried to defend what SS did, nor asked to be judged on a clean slate. I know full well that I'll be judged on what SS did, and I've not tried to hide that fact.

Added to this, ssf is in a position where a townie *should* be panicking about the fact he's on the chopping block and we're in potential LyLo. He's either not understood the situation, is too apathetic to get to a point where he might understand, or doesn't have the same threat of LyLo and so is more relaxed about it all.

Apathetic FTW.
TBH, I've been playing this game rather

a

pathetically...

[somestrangeflea]

You really think he's put in the effort required of a replacement? He's given no indication that he's even read the thread,

Why are scum any more likely to not read the thread than town? Not reading the thread thoroughly would jeopardise both alignments fairly equally, TBH.

let alone thoroughly to come up with some valid opinions.

As I said, anyone who interested me Day 1 is dead.

That post you referenced had him admitting to being, and I quote, "too apathetic to get to a point where he might understand" [the current situation of the game].

Hooray for misrepresentation!
Uh,

you

said that. I said that I was apathetic, yes, but I understand the situation perfectly.

Das, PJ and pete or flea, OTM and pie

I don't think it's particularly useful to have all your main suspects mutually exclusive from 2 others.

Re: OTM. He

has

given up.

Misrepresentation FTW!
Normally, giving up is a public affair, normally accompanied by the phrase "I give up", or words to that effect. I don't think you're in a position to tell me what my own mindset is, thank you.

I did a little reading of flea in a few other games about a week ago. He does seem consistent with the 'I'm in the game now, so that's when I start playing' attitutde (both when he replaces and when other's replace in).

And, should I die, my death will help the case that metagaming rarely works...

I don't recall if he has replaced as town in another deep game needing such a synopsis.

Correct, I have not replaced into any

other

"deep" games as Town. Then again, I've only replaced into one other "deep" game.

*waves to SSF*

Hai. ^_^

Oh...

Hello.

I see you browsing Little Italy.

+1 point for observancy...

If you could, would you mind saying something - preferably in the form of an opinion of who/what you think is scummy and why,

I'm currently thinking Dasquian more scummy for misrepresenting me, TBH.

with perhaps some comments to show you have read through all of Day One?

Sure...

MBL's refusal to claim, was, IMO, quite fair. CES retracted Dodgy's claim, which is fair enough, considering that Dodgy's claim was made during an "explosion", which, IMO, would render the claim itself highly doubtful. I think the retraction was, in part to ensure that there was an air of doubt that the scum would have to work with. MBL's refusal to claim was fair, because, if he thought in a similar method to CES, then he would have no reason to re-claim (and by that, I mean high threat of lynch), which gave him no reason to claim.

[somestrangeflea]

I did a little reading of flea in a few other games about a week ago. He does seem consistent with the 'I'm in the game now, so that's when I start playing' attitutde (both when he replaces and when other's replace in).

And, should I die, my death will help the case that metagaming rarely works...

I was saying you were playing in a consistent manner to other games as and with replacements. I wasn't metagaming you for a tell; I was sharing an observation that anyone can make. I think it helps to understand your attitude towards this game.

Apologies, I misread your post. I thought you were trying to say that I was acting

in

consistently in this game.

Do you have any other thoughts on Day 1, or at least Day 2?

As is fairly obvious, I have acquired a fair amount of suspicion for Dasquian.

Vote: Dasq

Partial OMGUS, partial retaliation for CrapMisinterpretationFun™...

[somestrangeflea]

Hence I drew the conclusion that you admitted to apathy, and did not draw the conclusion that you "understood the situation perfectly". In fact, I drew quite the reverse conclusion as you responded in the affirmative to me when I said you were, and I quote again, "too apathetic to get to a point where he might understand".

Really? I mean, it's a relatively simple situation, to be honest...

I'm not going to get into a semantic argument about what "giving up" means and whether it's a technical term or not. My point was that you had, until now, pretty much opted out on playing this game with any significant level of involvement, to the intense frustration of myself and I am fairly sure a number of others.

My point was that you can't tell someone else that they've given up.

And gee golly whiz, I'm sorry all the interesting players died Day 1,

Don't be. Not being particularly interesting is good play for both Town and Scum.

but that's a dreadful excuse for not posting

I wasn't using that as an excuse for not posting, I'm using it as an excuse for not commenting on Day 1. ..

- it sounds like a grade A cop-out to me - to get you off the hook for commenting on who didn't die.

Yeah, because I'm off the hook...

Well, any player should do their homework on replacing into a game, even if it's just a cursory glance. However, townies have more to gain from a reread as they are the ones who need to root out scum. Scum already know who they are. So that's one reason.

Another reason is that scum don't have to be telling the truth about not having read the thread, as a obstruction tactic akin to lurking to avoid them contributing to the game in a way that gets them in trouble - or, in other words, it makes sense as scum to claim you haven't read the thread if you can get away with it. We only have your word for it that you haven't cynically chosen to play the way you have. So I would expect some proportion of replacers claiming not to have read the thread to be scum trying it on, alongside some townies and scum alike who genuinely haven't read the thread.

Oh...

STFU!

[somestrangeflea]

Your arguments are based on faulty assumptions:

1) "Scum cannot bus each other" - you repeatedly argue/assume that if X is scum, then anyone voting X cannot be scum and so the scum voters must be easily identifiable from who's left.
2) "Scum always go for gold" - you seem to assume that when a townie is being bandwagonned, all the scum would be on the bandwagon.
3) "Scum always defend each other" - you are basing a lot off of who has stuck up for who in this game, and tracing a scum group out from one suspect to the "nearest" others.

These are all (well, the first two at least) frankly insane things to base arguments off of as it basically assumes scum are always totally obvious. In nearly every game I've seen, at least one, sometimes all, the bandwagons in the game have the scum split. Some defend the townie, some attack them. Some defend fellow scum, some bus them.

In the above case, you ask why, if gorckat is townie, he's not being jumped on by the scum. Well, pie (I think) already answered that earlier today. He pointed out that the best thing for the town would be for the bad guys to attempt to quicklynch a townie, so that the SK had an easy ride killing them. He's right - if scum all piled on gorckat, what are the chances one of them is going to get NKed? Pretty high, right? So that's your answer to that one - scum can't blunder into a lynch, they have to be sneaky as always, possibly more so.

You also ask why they wouldn't jump on gorckat to help scumbuddy ssf - well, first of all, it's the same answer - but even worse! If piling onto a townie is like painting a bullseye on your chest, then it's not looking good for the long-term if you're also easily traceable to sticking up for a scum buddy. For this reason, I also think scum would be more eager to bus each other than usual.

Although even if you reject my above arguments and think scum would pick gorckat over scumbuddy ssf, that makes you and pie prime candidates for exactly that behaviour.

Anyway, old ground. This day is not going to be ended by myself, OTM or gorckat, nor anyone else who has stated a firm opinion. It's hard to resist continuing the back-and-forth (as indeed I have failed to do here), but the people who will define this day are the ones who haven't come down on either side of the line or have been AWOL.

That means they need to post, not us.

<3

Unvote

[somestrangeflea]

Based on how felt people have been interacting, I lean towards the pie, OTM, flea grouping. (More affirmation of gut feelings/intuition)

What you've done here is you've just listed me and anyone who has defended me. That's it. That's hardly an in depth analysis of interactions now is it!?

[somestrangeflea]

creampuffeater: I can understand you don't want to hammer right off the bat, but if you're waiting for more discussion to unfold, I think everyone's said everything they're going to say. Me and OTM can start another big pissing match if that would help, but I doubt it would.

I'm not a fan of cutting short discussion because the day's lasted too long, but I'm also not a fan of trying to "force" discussion where there clearly isn't any.

If there's more discussion to come, let it come.

[somestrangeflea]

Bah!

Go

TOWN

!
Have fun...

[somestrangeflea]

This thread needs more Nightchoice list...

[somestrangeflea]

Who did the Watcher attempt to watch, who did the Gunsmith attempt to smith, and who did the Doc attempt to Doc N1?

[somestrangeflea]

Who did the Watcher attempt to watch, who did the Gunsmith attempt to smith, and who did the Doc attempt to Doc N1?

Seriously, this interests me somewhat...