Mini 1705: Game Over

[duppin]

Hey guys.

Just skimmed through the thread.

UNVOTE:
Just in case.

So Banana is town af. Bacde and Cthulhu are also town so far, TheWorst is decent enough. Fire is obvscum and I'm willing to put SamX on the scum pile for not contributing. That's all, if you want me to expand on a certain read or talk about something specific please ask.

Sure I'd like to ask you something. Why is Firebringer scum? As far as I can tell, you are saying he is scum for ignoring Banana's question. Is that all?
Oh and why is Cthulhu town? (I'd prefer a proper answer, and not just "Because Firebringer called him scum, but if all of your reads are based on Firebringer being scum then very well).

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I'm townreading Gale, so add them to my list of Bacade/Worst/Gale town block.

Care to explain the town read on Gale?

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I'm townreading Gale, so add them to my list of Bacade/Worst/Gale town block.

Care to explain the town read on Gale?

>80% of big posts come from town, so weeeeeeeee.

Um, okay.

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I've never seen Firebringer flat out ignore someone to troll them. Last game I played with Firebringer he tried to play and wanted to lynch who he thought was scum. He definitely didn't play like this.

So you think that is a scum tell?

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Banana v Fire looks TvT, but Banana's winning; @Firebringer: regardless of "how you play" you're avoiding his questions

If you believe it is TvT, why is your vote on Firebringer? (Also there is no such thing as winning if it is TvT)

[duppin]

VOTE: Ciara

Happy?

I also do not like CD and do not understand the townreads on him but oh well.

[duppin]

Interesting list. I don't agree with it at all though, but oh well.

Why do you think Salamence is scum, and why is your vote not on him?

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Explain my vote? I thought it was fairly obvious what I was doing.

I did not have a read on you. I put a vote on you simply for info and reactions.
Your reaction was not very good to be honest.

Eventi's reaction to my vote was a bit weird as well. Calling my d1 vote out and stupid is very interesting. Why would he care whether I was sheeping or not, especially considering I only put you up to two votes. His reaction felt forced, and his defense of you did not fee
feel genuine to me.
You could be town, although I think you are leaning scum.
I am surprised by the resistance of your train. I know I am town and I think Bacde is town as well, so not entirely sure what to make of that. The way I see it the two most likely possibilites (for the resistance that is) are that you are either scum or mafia is buddying with you.

It is possible that the mafia are simply ignoring your train though. Anyway, I will keep my vote on you for now, although I probably wouldn't mind switching to eventi.

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I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one mafia between Ciara and eventi.

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Come on guys, just join the Ciara train already.

Not a fan of the Fire train, but eventi is pretty interesting.

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Join the Ciara train and get a free cookie.

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Bacde you have reason events?

Duppin? You been quiet? Thoughts?

Um this question is rather silly, since I have told you guys multiple times who I want to lynch.

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I have to be completely honest, I find it very interesting that not a single person besides Bacde and me have joined the Ciara wagon.
Do you people townread her? If so, please explain.

I read through Firebringer, Salamence20, Ciara24, and Eventi.

Firebringer and Salamence both claimed. I'm suspicious as all get out of Sal, but I have to table that vote until at least D2.

Between Ciara24, and Eventi... I got a gut ping while reading Eventi. He seems very casually confident, very relaxed... if this game had neighborhoods or masons or Night 0 investigations then it wouldn't bug me so much. He's the slimiest of them all, and probably the scummiest.

VOTE: Eventi

So what do you think about Ciara?
Are you scumbuddies?

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I have to be completely honest, I find it very interesting that not a single person besides Bacde and me have joined the Ciara wagon.
Do you people townread her? If so, please explain.

I don't town read her. Initially she was scummy to me, especially when she posted about changing her signature at the end of the game (#53). As though the result of the game had something to do with the compliment she got from BananaCucho or She knew something about the end of the game that we didn't.

But the scum read is too small, and I haven't found anything else that was extremely suspicious of her (I am at post #217 now). What is the reason you think she is scummy?

I think Bacde was asked this question earlier and he didn't give any reasons, but just mentioned that we should follow his vote on Ciara. And I think you just followed him?

I explained this in 393.

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Explain my vote? I thought it was fairly obvious what I was doing.

I did not have a read on you. I put a vote on you simply for info and reactions.
Your reaction was not very good to be honest.

Eventi's reaction to my vote was a bit weird as well. Calling my d1 vote out and stupid is very interesting. Why would he care whether I was sheeping or not, especially considering I only put you up to two votes. His reaction felt forced, and his defense of you did not fee
feel genuine to me.
You could be town, although I think you are leaning scum.
I am surprised by the resistance of your train. I know I am town and I think Bacde is town as well, so not entirely sure what to make of that. The way I see it the two most likely possibilites (for the resistance that is) are that you are either scum or mafia is buddying with you.

It is possible that the mafia are simply ignoring your train though. Anyway, I will keep my vote on you for now, although I probably wouldn't mind switching to eventi.

Hmm, Idk. I feel that her reaction is scummy and her spat with Bacde seems a struggle. She also seems to have been backed by Firebringer, and she didn't vote for him either. Although she does mention that she doesn't believe Firebringer's claim (#252). The only problem is that she is on V/LA most of the time (Including now), which means that we won't hear any defense from her. Which actually makes you scummy in my eyes to be wanting to lynch her while she is in V/LA in the first place. Since, she would be an easy lynch for you?

I think there is something between you and Bacde. Ciara thought Bacde was scummy and was tunneling him. You join us and then vote with Bacde without reason. Then explain that Ciara's reaction on your vote was scummy. Isn't it possible that you and Bacde are scum buddies together? And Ciara just fell into a trap that you guys set around her? Idk if Ciara is an experienced player or not, but nothing is certain in that mesh.

But your point about scums not showing interest in her, seems to have some merit. She could very well be scum, but it is also possible that both you and Bacde are scums? That means one or two of your scum buddies are avoiding the wagon on her?

Her votes on Day 1 have been on Bacde and Cthulhu Dreaming (which she unvoted). Seriously though, don't you think a scum would have voted for someone before going on V/LA?

I just feel that Lynching her doesn't give us as much information as the other lynch targets do. If She flips scum, then we can look more closely at Firebringer for supporting her during her spat with Bacde. But if she flips town then both you are Bacde would be under the spotlight for going after her the entire time.

And because you are so interested in lynching her while she is in V/LA, I think I will have my

FoS on you

.

What? Sorry no offense, but this is a terrible read.

I voted on her after she returned from V/LA. Then when I started pressuring her a little, she went V/LA again.
If you think I am going to drop my vote on her just because she is going V/LA you are mistaken. I sincerely do not hope you actually believe that. That'd be an easy way for scum to get a train off them.

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What? Sorry no offense, but this is a terrible read.

I voted on her after she returned from V/LA. Then when I started pressuring her a little, she went V/LA again.
If you think I am going to drop my vote on her just because she is going V/LA you are mistaken. I sincerely do not hope you actually believe that. That'd be an easy way for scum to get a train off them.

So your vote on her is still a pressure + suspicion vote? And you don't actually want her to be lynched, but just wanted to know how others read her?

Oh god. My initial vote on her was because I did not have a read on her, so I wanted reactions from people. Then I found her scummy because of her reaction and based on the fact no one else was interested in the train at all.
Then I asked people now if they were townreading her since no one was joining the train. I obviously want to lynch her, I do not understand why you think I do not.

I realise the train is not going anywhere and I will obviously switch my vote to secure a lynch. I will most likely vote on eventi, although I am not entirely sure what to make of his latest posts.

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There is nothing to discuss. For some reason you apparently thought I did not want to lynch Ciara, which is not the case. Nothing more to it.

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What I want to know is, why did Scum kill TheWorst?

I've got some ISOing to do.

Implying you don't know why you killed him.

So anyway, how do you guys feel about a Ciara train today?[

[duppin]

What I want to know is, why did Scum kill TheWorst?

I've got some ISOing to do.

Implying you don't know why you killed him.

So anyway, how do you guys feel about a Ciara train today?[

If you think Kling is scum don't say tongue and cheek shit like this. Put your money where your mouth is, and put your vote on her.

I can do whatever I want. How about answering my question? How do you feel about a Ciara train today?

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VOTE: Ciara

I don't mind a Kling train either.
Yukari did replace CD who I found suspicious day 1, so I want to see more from that slot as well.

[duppin]

Implying you don't know why you killed him.

So anyway, how do you guys feel about a Ciara train today?[

I had am early scumlean on Ciara so I'll reexamine it, however I want to also analyze the other people on the mislynch first as well as why TheWorst more might have been killed. Honestly there is so much to discuss, are you just going to repeat your useless tunnelling all day today as well?

I do not think tunneling on scum is useless. Also this question is a bit weird, so I am just going to refer to this post:

VOTE: Ciara

I don't mind a Kling train either.
Yukari did replace CD who I found suspicious day 1, so I want to see more from that slot as well.

[duppin]

. Also, the next person who asks me to vote along with them will get a punch to their face.

You may punch me if you vote on Ciara.

[duppin]

Please stop that V/LA excuse. V/LA does not mean immunity.

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Banana, what do you think about Kling?

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What I want to know is, why did Scum kill TheWorst?

I've got some ISOing to do.

Implying you don't know why you killed him.

So anyway, how do you guys feel about a Ciara train today?[

Useless post.

I'm Town. Apparently you aren't.

So you think I am scum for calling you out?

And if I am scum, why don't you vote me?

[duppin]

You never "called me out."

I'm not sure if you're Scum or not. But you look like it when you act that way.

"... you don't know why you killed him." Show the class how I killed him, please. Present some evidence.

You aren't doing Town any favors at all acting that way, so yeah, yer pretty scummeh.

But my vote's on Gale right now, he's even worse than you are.

*sigh*

I chose wrong last time, I'll sheep today. Plus I'm not too sure about the other 2 players voting for Gale.

VOTE: Ciara24

Am I really the only one who finds this very interesting? She believes Gale is scum, yet unvotes when Gale gets a couple of votes on him because she isn't too sure about the players on his train.
Then she joins the Ciara train, which me an Bacde are leading, and she just called me scummy. So you'd rather sheep someone you think is scummy than stay on a train on someone you think is scum?

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You guys already know where my vote is going.

VOTE: Kling

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Fire, if you are town, vote kling.

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Yes yes, me and Sala are obviously scum buddies with Gale. You know, the player Sala pinged out and claimed to have a check on, I mean he even told Gale to just claim. They are definitely aligned.
It is a shame that I think you are most likely town. I personally do not have a town read on Sala, but I believe Kling is scum and her trying to lynch Sala obviously means I do not wish to lynch him now.

[duppin]

Kling no one cares about your OMGUS read on me.

[duppin]

Alright Banana, why am I scum?

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Well, at least I respond. But now you are here, how about you comment on your play yesterday?

You called me scum yesterday. You really thought I was scum. You also thought Gale was scum, then when some people join your Gale train you suddenly change your read on him and then join the Ciara train, that is lead by me (who you call scum) and Bacde (who you just called scummy). Please explain that to me.

[duppin]

Um sorry, on my phone, but you get my point.

[duppin]

I have no idea what Kling is doing.

But oh well.

What?

Okay.

Let's start from the beginning.

422: Says that Bacde may be scum.
559: This is the first time I call you out.
602: You respond. You claim that I am apparently not town for calling you out. This has to be your only reason, because you had no other case on me.
635: Claims that me calling you out was scummy and that town had no reason to do something like that, but you think Gale is more scummy than me.

So you obviously believe me and Gale are scum and you think Bacde is scummy.

661: You join the Ciara train, because you aren't sure about the other 2 players on the Gale wagon.

You join a train lead by two of your scum reads, and Gale instantly joins the train after you vote, yet you never call that out either.
In no freaking way is this coming from a town perspective.

This is rather ironic to be honest, because Gale then went on to say this later:
1081 Tells Bacde to not sheep scum, "It's not a good look", when Kling from her point of view did the exact same thing hereyesterday, and she was even scumreading the people she sheeped.

Anyway, basically you had two options yesterday: (from your POV)

Gale (who you think is scum), with two votes from people you do not know about.
Ciara (who you do not have a read on), a train lead by your scumreads.

I personally fail to see why you'd choose the Ciara train.
I'd also like to point out the people on the Gale train. They were Sala and Hermit. This is fairly important because:

981 Banana says the scum team is Gale, Sala and me.
1016 Kling agrees with Banana. (Gale + Sala + Duppin)

This world makes no sense. Sure, there is a 0.001% that Sala and Gale are aligned, but I'd say it is very unlikely. I have no idea why they believe in that world.

Kling's case on me is OMGUS.
She keeps calling Gale scum, yet now she can't make her mind up.

I did not mind the Sala train to be honest. I did not have a townread on Sala and not too fond of his responses. I do however find Kling more suspicious, and I am not going to join her train.
I do however believe that Banana is town.

[duppin]

Um the "What?" was a response to Kling's post (1101). Apparently I forgot to quote

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Just hammer Kling already please.

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This is very amusing.

Me, you, and Kling are town

Once SamX comes along we got this. Vote Duppin

So Banana just confirmed their team. I believe Firebringer is the town between SamX and him, not entirely sure though. SamX vote yesterday (rng) was terrible and very suspicious, so yeah. Doesn't matter, whoever is the town between you guys need to focus.

Anyway, Banana and Kling you need to realise you lost though. You lost the game yesterday it should be fairly obvious why.

This was the train on Kling: Me, Bacde, Gale and Sala
This was the train on Sala: Banana, Kling, Firebringer and SamX

Banana is proposing that all scum tried to buddy with a town while the rest of the town was trying to lynch him. Come on now.
That's the worst thing Banana has said in this game to be honest. (and that says something).

I honestly thought Banana was just confused town yesterday but it's fairly obvious she is not at this point.

All it takes is a simple ISO on any of us. Banana claims Kling is the only one with reason this game, um sure, check her ISO. Her case on me is OMGUS, her switching her vote to Ciara is a big scum tell as well.
Yesterday your scum team was Sala, me and Gale, but now that Sala has flipped town you don't even reconsider and just straight out push the same. That's some very questionable play, I don't understand why'd you be so desperate. Banana was a townread of mine, so I'd actually say this was a pretty bad play, when you could've won it. Oh well.

Me and Bacde are masons and it should be fairly obvious if you simply ISO us (Which you claimed you would, yet you did not).
We also tried to soft it in one of us died so the other one could claim:

What I want to know is, why did Scum kill TheWorst?

I've got some ISOing to do.

Implying you don't know why you killed him.

So anyway, how do you guys feel about a Ciara train today?[

Notice the [ at the end?

]Salamence your reads are bad broseph

Today we Lynch either Ciara or Kling, I'm tired of being ignored

Also who is Yukari? Sounds like a misdirection from Kling and Ciara

Which is why he did ]

VOTE: Kling

SamX and Firebringer, whoever is the town between you need to get a grip. If you seriously do not know who the scum is now based on yesterday, I can't help you. It should be obvious Kling is the lynch today.

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Correction:

There are 2 VT's, 2 PRs and 3 Scums left.

Then you or Fire is lying if that's the case

Is that set in stone? Or a rough template that usually is followed?

The set in stone version is the Matrix 6 template, used in Newbie games. It's almost certainly what's going on here.

What??? That doesn't make sense. Salamance's role didn't fit there

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Matrix6

This one?

Um, you do realise that setup is for 9 players.

[duppin]

So far
Fire
Banana
Klingon

have all claimed VT. That's 1 claim too many.

Duppin and Bacde both claimed Mason. That's impossible. Both are Scum.

Gale and Sam need to claim now.

So you basically admit there is at least one scum between you, Fire and Banana.
You probably shouldn't have said that.

[duppin]

Correction:

There are 2 VT's, 2 PRs and 3 Scums left.

Then you or Fire is lying if that's the case

Is that set in stone? Or a rough template that usually is followed?

The set in stone version is the Matrix 6 template, used in Newbie games. It's almost certainly what's going on here.

Nice try, unfortunately it is not true.

Welcome to

Mini Normal 1705

Set-up made using Normal Guidelines. Roles were randomised using this.

[duppin]

These are possibilites:
Theres 3 PR total in game: Sala was one.
That means two more.
I doubt that is filled by masons, because those are relatively useless PRs.
I went to look at other completed normal games and couldn't find any with Masons were all that was given was 2 masons and 1 other role.
If this is true though there would be 2 VTs so we still have one VT liar.

If there is a mason, we could have 4 PRs total:
2 Masons and 2 other roles. So sala covers one and we have another.
That however means I am the real VT and no other VTs.
So I am doubting mason claims right now.

Flawed logic.
In both scenarios, you know one of the VT claims are lying. You, Banana and Kling are the VT claims.
If you are VT, you know at least one of them is lying. This pretty much confirms the other one as scum as well.

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I don't know Kling that well but I don't see Kling misleading in that type of way

If mason claim makes 0 sense then sorry its a bad claim that is easily faked as Mafia

That [ ] thing was so unnoticeable that if we had lynched one of you earlier and you flipped scum no one would notice that. Easily faked as mafia.

What?

It was simply meant to prove our role in case one of us died, and a) scum tried to fake claim mason (since one of us would've been revealed then) or b) you were going to lynch one of us in a lylo situation. It was meant to be used by us, not you guys.

There is no way Kling is not mafia now. It is simple logic.

You have 3 VT claims. (You, Fire and Kling)
At least

one

of you is lying, which means there is at least one mafia between you. The game is over at this point, please just vote Kling already so we can get on with it.

[duppin]

I am not lying, what are you talking about? That setup is for 9 players, check it.

Oh and we are speedlynching because Kling is pretty much confirmed scum.

[duppin]

Lmao anaba at least pretend you are town and unvote til the end of the massclaim

You are scum reading me for voting and not unvoting even though Duppin is doing the SAME THING oh but you can "confirm" he's a mason

You do realize what situation you're putting me in right? You two and Kling are obviously not aligned. So if I vote the wrong way today we lose.

If I vote Duppin and the mason claim is false, I vote you and that's two scum in one. If Duppin is town we lose now.

If I vote Kling and he flips scum, then I am lynched tomorrow anyway and we lose anyway in another LYLO. If I vote Kling and Kling is town then we lose now.

If I vote Duppin at least there's a chance of saving the game from my viewpoint

If you are town, you lost the game for us. Simple as that.

There is no guarantee we are going to lynch you tomorrow, but you are hard aligning with scum, you have a town read based on her for no reason at all, you fail to understand simple logic. (There is AT LEAST one scum between you, Kling and Fire. That is confirmed), yet you do not wish to pursue any of those.
Yeah, I'd say you look very scummy at the moment.

[duppin]

What I meant is that Kling is lying about the setup if you guys are telling the truth

Question: Kling said that the setup is the newbie matrix like day 2. Why didn't you guys correct that then if its incorrect? I was playing under that assumption until Sal flipped which confused the hell out of me

I haven't seen it. What post?

[duppin]

I see. I didn't notice that post.

I am sorry if that came across as rude, didn't mean to.

[duppin]

Um, I don't mind admitting I've lost games for town before.
I mean obviously you aren't the only reason for town losing, but if you align with scum in lylo as town, you do lose the game for town. Sure you can turn it around and blame us for looking scummy, but in this particular case we know for a fact that there is at least one scum between Firebringer, you and Kling, which pretty much confirms me and Bacde as town as well, so yeah.

It is obviously not personal.

[duppin]

Yeah seems like it.

I want to believe you are town and I had a town read on you for most of the game. We should probably lynch between SamX and Firebringer tomorrow.
Final three will probably be you, fire/sam and Gale. I think Gale is town, but I'd like him to claim today.

[duppin]

Well considering SamX is most likely scum, it probably wasn't RNG

[duppin]

By the way please don't hammer Kling until Gale claims.

[duppin]

UNVOTE: Kling

Really Fire? Just wait for Gale to claim.

[duppin]

My logic does not blow, but great response.

We know there is at least one scum between you, Banana and Firebringer because all of you claimed VT.

How can you possible think me and Bacde are scum then?

You want to lynch me. I am obviously not aligned with Banana. Firebringer tried to put me at L-1 in lylo.

You are by far the scummiest player in the game. (I've already explained my initial scum read on you).
You've also been on every single train (on town). (Firebringer was as well)

I am not entirely sure about Firebringer and I think Banana might be town.
If you are truly town, then the scum team is Firebringer, SamX and Banana. I don't think that is the case (I don't think Banana and Firebringer are aligned).

[duppin]

Eh I forgot about Gale. You could replace him with one of them, but doesn't really matter right now, because we are not lynching him today. I do want him to claim though.

[duppin]

Um, from her point of view we would never be aligned as in scum buddies.

[duppin]

No he should claim today. WIFOM is going to be a pain if he does not.

[duppin]

Good game.

Sorry Kling, I thought you were scum. I was trying to consider a world where you weren't, unfortunately you got hammered before that happened. I was considering voting on SamX instead, before if you were town, she was definitely mafia as Firebringer and Banana most likely weren't aligned based on day 1 and 2. If you were scum, she was also pretty much mafia based on her RNG vote. So she was definitely the smartest lynch.

Fire, please be more careful with your votes in lylo!

[duppin]

Eh, before = because*