Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[Oman]

Vote: Ojpower...oj NKed...do you?

[Oman]

Interestingly enough...I suck

Vote: Ojpower

[Oman]

Google returns some weird stuff for SPAG:

Society for the Promotion of Adventure Games


Are you affiliated with them?

[Oman]

Well I was explaining to a few people in Scumchat that if you google Omankdor (the original from Oman) you get the origin of my name well first you get all the mafiascum shit, then you get LOTP

So I looked for yours.

Pluse - Oh Em Gee You Ess...No vote however, Oj just reeks of scum [/humour]

[Oman]

[sarcasm] A personal attack, only scum would do that. Begone vile evil...thing! [/sarcasm]


Seriously though,

Unvote. Vote: Deepfriend Ninja

as my baseless early bandwagon of fun.

[Oman]

I love ninjas; Zombie Ninjas, Pirate ninjas, Kitten Ninjas...but deep fried?

OJ chucked that third vote on rather quickly, with no-other content none-the-less. Both of these are scumtells in my mind. A second vote without an explaination...okay. Your first vote that puts someone at 3 on...maybe, but changing your vote and not giving a whisper.

Unvote: Ninja Vote: Oj

[Oman]

OJ Simpson killed his wife (allegedly) the joke was "If that OJ could NK, does that mean you can as well?"

Its a joke.

[Oman]

Lol, /hate the interweb's lack of emotion.

Further jokes of this caliber may result in a modkill. I also want to alert you that day-killing will not end the day, and that Polter has been replaced by curiouskarmadog pre-game, in case some of you were curious. -Mod

[Oman]

Sorry guys, went to visit my sister last night and was at work today. I missed a lot!

Firstly, I don't like the sound of this: Ninja's 30

Mainly because he is so addament in noting that his suspicion of OJ is "Hypothetical." This looks a little like "I'm trying to distance him, but I don't want to bus him yet". Of course, I could easily be Shadow Jumping here.

Vollkan and I have the same idea

The issue for me is not the wagon, it's the fact that Oj made his vote without any explanation. It clearly wasn't just random and yet he gave absolutely nothing with it.

My problem (as I stated) was that he just jumped on, with no comment. Often scum will stay silent when they vote so as not to say anything incriminating.

Doing a little metagaming on OJ.

In my opinion totally useless, not only in its uncertainty as a reliable tool, but also through the WIFOM (hate doing that) of "I'll play scummy in this game so they think I'm scum in that game". Though I do agree:

This seems like a huge leap of logic for a vote with no explanation.

As above.

I don't want to be irresponsibly throwing votes around so early in the game.

Yet you leave your vote on a random target at this point which is so much more responsible.

Sucks that random stage is over so quickly.

The random votes are a waste of time IMO, I usually try to get out of them ASAP.

Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

BZZZT! Worst defence EVER! Besides "Trust me, I'm town" this is the scummiest thing I've ever heard someone say this early. I'm sorry, but "unfolding" only occurs when questions are asked. Then this gem

I have no problem with answering questions

DUB TEE EFF?

Lets take another look.

Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold[...]

I have no problem with answering questions

Doesn't look like that to me.


I have three scenarios.
1) OJ is scum who attempts to distance Ninja by 3rd voting him. Ninja does an attempt at distance while keeping his posts on OJ being town, he, however, overreacts.

2) OJ is scum who attempts to start a wagon on townie Ninja who then over-reacts.

3) OJ is town who does a harmless bandwagon on scumNinja who then over-reacts due to "Scumanioa" (Scum induced paranoia).

QUESTION: Ninja, do you think Oj is more likely to be town or scum? I want an answer either way.

[Oman]

Sorry, there was a number four I meant to write but I didn't say. I was going out to a mate's 21st.

You know, I have never seen scum do that. Frankly, it is far more incriminating to say nothing than to give an explanation.

The idea that saying nothing is incriminating grew out of the original fact that scum used to slip up lots, thus they say nothing, which people picked up on and now use as a scumtell. Also, saying nothing is easier to explain away then some slip-ups.

The number four you stated is, I think, unlikely (though I do admit its possible, I think I excluded it cause I don't believe it to be the scenario atm) in relation to the other "four". I honestly think that one of them is scum at this point, its not conclusive, but its the scummiest I've seen two people act D1, the chances are good. If you include the number four I didn't think to say:

4(or five)) They are masons, and everything that seems to connect them (i.e. my number one) is mason-y.

No, I'm not asking for claims if I'm right (I've had experiences...), I'm merely pointing out that this setup is more devious then I thought. I thoughed we'd have it easier with the three masons but this setup is not as town-OPed as I though.

Everything that is a scumtell in relation to connections (bus, distance, etc) could be both a really scum tell, or a really pro-town tell (i.e. scum or mason). Thus making this not as good for the town as it first seemed. Though if we were to lynch a mason they'd probably claim it at -1, (and another would have to back them up? I don't have much experience with masons.)

Another speculation on the setup is that this day-vig could be used to our advantage. We could use them to "lynch" without ending the day...unless we were going to lynch the vig; or the vig was scum; or both.

[Oman]

Yes i think OJ is scum, i want to hear from him before i do anything with my vote.

Noted

I am going to re-read the whole oj ninja fiasco, because WHAT IF (not attacking anyone) when the OJ train started his scum parters shifted the blame onto me to save him, which was admittedly pretty easy given my awful posts.

"What ifs" are fine, but just remember a few things.

1) You can't use a hypothetical to prove someone scum (I.e. "You shifted attention to me off OJ, based on my hypothetical you're scum")

2) They're hypotheticals, sometimes they're just plain wrong.

of course, this leads to

3) You could be absoloutly right, and I'm going to take a look too to see if I can get any evidence.

Who wants to do a PBPA on OJ (:lol:)

[Oman]

4(or five)) They are masons, and everything that seems to connect them (i.e. my number one) is mason-y.

This is now almost completely impossible due to:

Yes i think OJ is scum, i want to hear from him before i do anything with my vote.

If they're masons, DFN is taking this distancing thing to a whole new level.

[Oman]

Okay, looking at the OJ/DFN fiasco. I have gone through looking for people attempting to shift focus to DFN instead of OJ:

DFN (deepfriedninja, i will address you as thus if you dont mind) What exactly is wrong witha bandwagon in your opinion?

The first post to focus on DFN instead of OJ, though Elias is completely correct, so this post looks fine.

As for your "incite the masses towards a lynch on THE FIRST PAGE THE GAME!!!" you seem to be trying to inflate the severity of what Oj did as much as possible, which is interesting in itself as a possible OMGUS.

The second post to look at DFN. Although the majority of his post was about OJ so its not looking particularly bad to me.

What's missing from the speculation and hyperbole (I'm gonna look that up after I use it) are oj's comments.

I agree his action was questionable. I also agree with volkan about the rather dramatic way DFN wants to rile us up.

This one sticks out to me as "protecting OJ". He gives a message firstly, about hearing from OJ. Then gives the middle-of-the-road answer "I agree it was

questionable

", then uses MUCH more dramatic language on "rather

dramatic

was DFN

wants

to

rile us up

".

This seems like a huge leap of logic for a vote with no explanation.

Guess my question here is this, if it has set off “huge alarms in your head” why only FoS him and keep your vote on a “random” target?

Again, looks at OJ first then DFN (as others have). I don't find this scummy posting because its rational to me.

Then Vollkan, Elias and everyone else (in chronological order) gets heavier on DFN.

If you re-read not ONE post looks like a scumbuddy trying to shift blame. More slip-ups from DFN causing it all.

Thus

Unvote Vote: DFN

I don't think thats anywhere close to lynch but

MOD

can we get a vote count please....no jokes this time.

[Oman]

Right...

Firstly, I am concerned about the buddying up Oman is doing with SPAG (googling his name and all)

This is buddying up? I always google names I've never seen before, its fun and interesting.

Thirdly, TDN (The Deepfriend Ninja), I think gets too defensive. A third vote isn't the end of the world. That is only halfway up to the lynch. We are nowhere near deadline. Why get so defensive?

QFT. DFN jumped up and down say we're being incited to lynch on a third vote.

I have got no problem quick lynching a person who acts this ODD in the random stage and doesnt want to explain it...

I can't even begin to say how horrible this idea is. We are not here to lynch people who do odd stuff, not the least in random stage without explaining it.

WTF Did I miss this!? What a horrible, horrible thing to say! +10 scumpoints. ( ifound it post 28)

TDN posts a "I've screwed up" post... that on page 2. I generally tend not to like such posts.

Agreed.

Then, Oman posts his long post 57... and I do not like it. You have to remember, that in this game, the defence of one player for another player is not exactly scummy. It is also masonic.

I made this point a few posts later when I figured it out myself.

In this game, on Day 1, we shouldn't look at who is defending whom, we should look for other scum tells, like crap and faulty logic, jumping bandwagons with the intention to lynch, lurking in plain sight, etc. The relationship with other players part, we can get into when a scum is actually lynched.

I still think relationships are an important part, but I concede that it will yield nothing concrete for a day or two.

Oman then tries to fish for a mason claim from TDF in 71, He then puts him at FOUR votes.

I explained my vote substatially in that post. Though "fishing for a mason claim" is a bit BS, I was merely commenting that I doubted they were both town, and especially masons.

I'm glad you're doing more than Kerplunk did, even if some of it is wrong.

[Oman]

I was talking about the contrast between your euphamistic defence and hyperbolic offence.

And yes, I was intentionally middle of the road on DFN

Thats not even what I said. Re-read please, I said you were middle of the road on OJ and very clearly defined with DFN.

I was also bolding to comment on the contrast between "Questionable" and "Dramatic" "Rile us up" which are less euphamistic.

Gorckat, may I ask if you think who, or both, or either of DFN or OJ could be scum at this moment (and I don't mean could as in "well anyone could if they're selected randomly" number wise, I mean by their actions)? Thank you.

Right now Nelly hits high on my list along with DFN. Gorckat is getting my attention but so far seems relativly pro-town.

[Oman]

I think the Hermits comment was scummy, but that post 101 (^) did rationalise it for me.

DFN is just digging himself into a hole here, and while I realise I'm the only one on him vote-wise, I think I'm on the right track.

[Oman]

MOD: whats happening with OJ

[Oman]

Nah, let him get replaced. Mini's are hard enough for town (less mislynches) without making it harder.

[Oman]

Agreed, DFN, don't take it so persoanlly.

[Oman]

DFN seems to be getting a bit of that scum-based paranoia that the mafia get. The feeling that everyone is out to get them. He's certainly displaying tell-tale signs. I like my vote on DFN, and he's not making it any better.

[Oman]

Unvote vote: nelly

I've seen this done before saying "would scum do this", plus claiming without pressure...I don't like it.

[Oman]

Firstly

So far, the only thing I have gleaned is that Oman was 4th on both the DFN and Nelly wagons. Plus, ST has already remarked that Oman's vote for Nelly was somewhat rushed.

I was 4th on both because of timing issues. I'm in australia so while I'm at uni/asleep you all vote and talk. I come in at the tail end. Also it seemed rushed cause it was a morning post. About ten minutes to read all my games, post something and then leave for uni/work.

Onwards:

Unvote Vote Paradox

For saying that he had "forced our hand" you always have a choice. Plus you messed up a -1 count, not cool, nor pro-town.

Plus some of his last points just don't work

You can't lynch me later because the player I replace was suspected

Yes we can, you both have the same role pm, so we can use anything he did against you.

I obviously didn't realize I was putting him at -1,

Doesn't unvote after aknowledging his mistake.

If anyone here is hungry for a lynch, it's you, for me, because you seem pretty damn worried about your little friend Nelly and quick to deflect suspicion to me.

This is simple BS, CKD merely mentioned you seemed hungry for a lynch (which you did "100% neccasary") and you OMGUS-hungryforalynch-ed him.

I'd say there's a slightly higher chance that he's a townie since mafia seem less likely to end up bored and expirimenting in games.

Yet you still advocate the lynch, believing him to be town.

I perfer actually playing to having to lynch someone acting like a fool.

You don't HAVE to do it, its totally a choice. If you think its a bad move, i suggest you don't do it. If you think its a good move, DO IT, but don't act like you have no choice.

You think that Nelly is acting SO scummy that he is likely a Jester, but unscummy enough that me putting him at -1 is suspect? WTF,dude?

DOES NO-ONE READ THE FIRST PAGE. There is no Jester, can't be, its an open setup. Therefor, any and all points regarding Nelly being a jester are now void.

[Oman]

EBWOP: Really hope I'm not fourth on the Paradox wagon

[Oman]

I have an objection to para being town = me being scum.

In all likely hood he'll turn up scum anyway, but its certainly strange that this holds.

I would want Paradox vigged much more then I would want Elias vigged. I think that Elias is more pro-town then pulse atm.

I don't see how I have a "poorly explained vote" I explained everything I found wrong with Paradox's vote.

Vollkan, I'd want to hear in from every player before we start vigging. Assuming 1) your claim is real which is a tossup atm and 2) nothing else happens in the meantime.

Finally

Unvote

, this new twist changes things.

[Oman]

Would you prefer that I vig pulse?

Para
Pulse
Elias

I didn't want you to misinterpret a "yes" as "more than Paradox"

I would, right now, prefer you didn't vig anyone just yet. I would want most if not all players to re-read and post a scumlist.

[Oman]

Well, If you're going to vig I don't need to vote do I? Lynching a dead guy is beyond even me.

Well Vollkan, the main thing I want to hear is any counter-claims. No offence, you've seemed remarkably pro-town, but grain of salt you know.

[Oman]

Oh it doesn't I still think he's scum, but you remove the need for my vote.

[Oman]

Well, its an option, but again, I'd prefer to wait for everyone else to check in and see if there is anyone who wants to say anything on the situation.

But yes, Vollkan, I approve. What information do you think could be drawn from it?

[Oman]

Well, a very intricate plan, but sadly, I am just cautionary atm. I've had bad experiences with Vigs and I do just want to wait for everyone.

What do you mean the word "prefer" is incriminating, if I'd said "NO WAIT" that would be stupid, I'm not the boss of you.

I have reasons not to like your whole plan, even the claim came off a bit suspect, but if no-one counters I'm willing to believe you.

Also, the vig doesn't neccasarily have to be townie.

I approve of your plan, considering option 2 was to kill me, I would rather you hit what is potentially scum then what is definatly town, bad habit.

[Oman]

Well, I know i'm town, which was my argument. I know I'm town, so its better to hit a non-confirmed (from my P.O.V.)

[Oman]

You could VERY easily have said: "No, Vollkan. I don't think there is sufficient justification to kill Pulse". Instead, you try to make a facade of caution whilst then openly giving approval. The two are completely contradictory, of course.

How are they contradictory? Can't I be cautious but approve of a plan?

[Oman]

Let me try writing this in a list to make it clearer:
1) You say you would "prefer" I wait. You do not explicitly tell me to wait, which would be the only reasonable thing to have done.
2) You grant your approval of the plan being enacted
3) You ask what the benefit is

1) Iwould say it would be unreasonable to DEMAND you wait

2) Yes i do

3) I ask what YOU think we'll get from it. I want to know what connections YOU would make.

[Oman]

Also, hate to wreck you here, but if you "caught" a "scumbag" why aren't you voting me?