Mini 471: End.

[Erotomachia]

I'll throw out a random

vote: deadscilent

for having a name I don't understand.

[Erotomachia]

Here are my thoughts on the Adel bandwagon: I think 3-4 votes is relatively harmless, considering that every vote at this stage has been completely random and doesn't mean much. Plus they're leading to a discussion. Although 5-6 votes this early in the game would definitely bear some looking into.

What's a VI, by the way?

[Erotomachia]

Albert, you certainly do ask a lot of questions. In fact, your last 6 posts have all been questions. It'd be good to actually hear what your own thoughts are, however.

Anyway, we still need to hear from other players, like CTD and deadscilent.

[Erotomachia]

Albert, you certainly do ask a lot of questions. In fact, your last 6 posts have all been questions. It'd be good to actually hear what your own thoughts are, however.

Anyway, we still need to hear from other players, like CTD and deadscilent.

And YOU.

Fair point.

I've already said that I don't consider the bandwagon on Adel to be dangerous because it was lynch -3. And I think Sir Tornado's accusation that kravhen's vote on Adel was random is off the mark. It was in fact the first justified vote of the bandwagon. We should be careful, though, about focusing too heavily on these two. I think the pressure on Adel was good, but we should also remember to keep it moving.

I don't like Erotomachia's last post, considering he only made 3 posts, one of which is a random post and another is berating my questioning.

I'm just not a fan of incessant, content-less posts.

Anyway, I had a tough week at work. I'll be posting more regularly from now on.

[Erotomachia]

But would a scum put himself in the spotlight in the first place? ( Ok I'm still relatively new, but is this last line what people call a WIFOM? ). Either way, I'm more interested in those who just try reallll hard to keep me in the spotlight.

Yeah, I've definitely seen games in which scum grab lots of attention. But I think some people tend to post a lot no matter what their role is. I also think your question is considered WIFOM. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that nearly anytime you say "would scum do that?" is WIFOM.

Nevertheless, I actually don't find you that scummy. I think you've made a sincere effort to launch a discussion. I'm more interested in Adel's reaction. I figured that the first time (page 4) she talked about her Day 1 bandwagoning talent it was a joke. But it struck me as odd that she repeated it at toward the bottom of page 6. I don't see kravhen as the lynch for today...and don't understand why Adel came to that conclusion.

However, no one seemed to be interested in either of these posts, so Blue Zebra quietly removed his vote without spending another word on the matter, which is not the kind of play I would expect from a townie who seriously considered camisade's post suspicious.

Blue Zebra has already voted for 4 different players (although I guess the first three were all random votes?), so I'm not sure how much weight you can place on that single vote.

[Erotomachia]

What's a little frustrating is that every time kravhen posts, the focus returns to him. He seems pretty townie to me.

At the moment I'm a little curious about Adel's stance. Why are you voting Blue Zebra? I thought you were convinced that kravhen is scum.

[Erotomachia]

I don't think that's what Adel is saying at all. It's not about grammar and spelling mistakes - it's about the emotion in and the tone of a post. Scum will re-read their posts to make sure that everything sounds just right. Townies are more likely to not care if their post is perfectly polished and may very well make a couple slip-ups.

The problem is that I think this reduces to the "too townie" fallacy, i.e. "your posting is perfect, therefore you're scummy."

[Erotomachia]

I'm not sure what to make of you, ABR. I certainly didn't like your constant questions earlier in the game. Your posts are mostly one-liners and you seem to be mostly an observer. I can understand that you're probably constantly reading, trying to form opinions of other players. But I've played with you before (briefly), so I'm not too surprised. Like Adel said, you're probably acting as usual. It's just hard to get a read on you.

Zzzz

QFT!

Well...the problem is that we're waiting on a replacement, for deadscilent to return, and for Haut Boy to give us his thoughts.

[Erotomachia]

There's a difference between an inactive player and an intentional lurker. So far, I see no proof that deadscilent is intentionally lurking; she said she would be gone until the 24th. Yes, of course she needs to post. If she doesn’t start posting by the 25th, then it will be fair to pressure her (in fact by then she’ll probably need to be replaced). But I believe it’s wrong to pressure a player who has explicitly stated that she will be gone. I think scum will often pretend to care about activity and the pace of the game by pressuring inactive players. They’re easy targets.

[Erotomachia]

Lurkers tend to pop up as soon as someone mentions them. They read the thread and follow discussions; they just don't contribute. That's not quite what deadscilent is doing.

Although I definitely agree that once she returns she'll need to get posting in a hurry to get caught up. She's effectively been "gone" for nearly two weeks. That's just not cool.

[Erotomachia]

That's not the point. We're glad that you're back. Can you give us your thoughts now?

[Erotomachia]

Because he was replaced by Haut Boy. And now we finally have everyone.

[Erotomachia]

Hi everyone. I'm still here.

[Erotomachia]

Ironically, we're still waiting for spectrumvoid.

[Erotomachia]

I don't want to be replaced, but I can't really post much now. I should be back later today.

[Erotomachia]

but lynch me, I dont care lol, if we can get day 1 over with, ill be happy, even if Im dead.

I don't think that what you're is doing is scummy, but it is bad play. If you sign up for a game you should do your best to win and help out your team.

[Erotomachia]

Sorry, I should have posted V/LA...I didn't realize I would be away so long. I posted in my other game this morning, so now I have time to read the last few pages of this game.

Before I post, I'll

unvote: deadscilent

because that vote was random and I'd like to put more thought into my next vote before the deadline.

[Erotomachia]

It feels like the same people keep rehashing the same arguements at a different page and the same answers are given.

This doesn't help. Stating that the game is going nowhere does not lead us anywhere. Posts like this really annoy me. They remind me of games on other sites I've played in which people immediately vote for a no lynch because "no discussion has occurred." Of course, no discussion can ever occur unless people take the initiative to start it. It becomes a vicious cycle.

As I understand it, the case against Haut Boy relies on post #373 (in which he unvoted deadscilent). I thought Haut Boy unvoted her because she was branded the VI by Nabakov. He certainly wasn't the first to do so. Although the reason he gave is that she had given him an answer...which consisted solely of her "guarantee" that she's a townie. That's the disconnect between Haut Boy's unvote and the reason he says he unvoted. It doesn't seem like a huge deal to me, though.

I'll be here tonight and all day tomorrow.

[Erotomachia]

Adel, you've voted for so many different people...I'm a little confused. Why the sudden vote for ABR if you support the Sir Tornado wagon? Is this like the vote for Haut Boy, in which you were simply interested in seeing where the wagon went?

[Erotomachia]

Sir Tornado would be my choice. I don't think the case against Haut Boy is very strong, and voting for ABR at this point seems pretty random. Sir Tornado, on the other hand, keeps talking about his strange playstyle more than anything else.

[Erotomachia]

Well, since Haut Boy and Sir Tornado are currently tied, I will

vote: Sir Tornado

[Erotomachia]

We have about an hour and half left.

Adel has voted for pretty much everyone in the game.

[Erotomachia]

Sir Tornado said that he doesn't vote very often (or at least that he doesn't vote early in the game). I think his only vote was the random vote for camisade. After that he threw out a couple FOS's.

I guess his reasoning would be that he still doesn't have any strong enough suspicions to place a vote (he said he only votes when he's "dead convinced"). And that's apparently his playstyle...

To be honest, I don't even know if Sir Tornado saw the most recent votes on him (kravhen's and mine).

I'm not that comfortable with my vote on Sir Tornado, but I believe he's a better choice than Haut Boy. And with this deadline in place, there don't seem to be any other possibilities.

[Erotomachia]

I'm open to this, but can you go over why you want to lynch Adel again?

I'll admit that she's playing very differently from a previous game I played with her (Mini 455, in which she posted much more than she has here)...but she basically admitted that she's hunting scum by voting randomly and following all kinds of different bandwagons. Not sure what to make of that.

[Erotomachia]

The mod said that in case of a tie whoever reached the count first will by lynched. If I unvote, Sir Tornado is still the lynch.

I think it's basically impossible to no lynch.

And we've still got an hour.

[Erotomachia]

Meh. It worries me that neither of our likely lynch candidates has claimed.

Yeah, and I really don't think Sir Tornado is even likely to check in before the deadline. Adel might.

I have to go to dinner soon but I promise I'll check in every so often. For now I will

unvote

.

[Erotomachia]

All right, I'm up for it.

Vote: Adel

[Erotomachia]

I'm rather surprised that you would vote for kravhen...he strikes me as pretty pro-town.

You certainly did stick to your word of voting toward the end of the day, though.

[Erotomachia]

In post 465, he votes me because Haut Boy and I were tied (we were, in fact NOT tied at all. I was leading by 2 votes)

I really didn't like the case against Haut Boy Day 1. It relied entirely on the fact that he unvoted deadscilent. That's why I voted you: I felt you were a better lynch than Haut Boy (and I still do). When I voted, you two were the basically the only realistic choices, and I was far more comfortable with a vote on you. Then, with deadscilent and ABR voting for Adel (and Patrick also leaning toward an Adel vote), it became clear that the choice was between you and Adel. Her play this game was nothing like Mini 455 (in which she was town). I remember Adel (as town) posting a great deal and being pretty serious about the game. Here she essentially threw votes at random and bandwagoned everyone in sight. So I felt an Adel lynch had much more substance behind it than a "Sir Tornado over Haut Boy" lynch.

I don't think deadscilent or Patrick are scummy, but I'll Fos: Erotomachia again.

Mind explaining why? Last time you said it was because I wasn't suspicious of anyone, but you haven't expressed too many suspicions yourself.

Sir Tornado, why do you keep insisting that you would play exactly the same way if you were scum?

[Erotomachia]

Where are Haut Boy and camisade?

[Erotomachia]

Looking forward to theopor's post.

[Erotomachia]

Haut Boy hasn't posted anywhere on the site in over two weeks.

[Erotomachia]

I like ChronX's first few posts. They seem pretty townie to me.

On the other hand, Sir Tornado's vote looks terrible to me. I wouldn't even consider it metagaming. And it's certainly not legitimate.

[Erotomachia]

Sorry - I started school and this game was frankly the last thing on my mind. I completely lost interest. I won't, however, ask for a replacement, as that would an obnoxious thing to do at this point in the game. I'll respond to a couple of kravhen's comments:

Erotomachia, what's your thoughts on the matter? You dont have to agree with me, different opinions are fine.. just... talk.

Well...I accused deadscilent of "bad play" on Day 1. So I definitely felt that the characterization of her as the VI was spot-on. I had no reason to suspect her. I'm a little surprised, because she had stated that I seemed pro-town, and you obviously don't hold that same opinion.

The person i wanna vote for now is Erotomachia. He's slipped through my radar day one, never had much tells from him nor content. I'm confident.

Fair enough - it's true that I've been pretty inactive this game. Although I find it strange that I'm singled out for posting little. I think that Adel, Patrick, Nabokov, and you have all been active and made solid contributions to the game...but what about everyone else?

[Erotomachia]

Eroto - who do you think is scum at this point?

Well, I think you're certainly under suspicion because of camisade's lurking and convenient disappearance as the deadline approached. I also really don't like Blue Zebra's play. He's accused people of lurking throughout the game while contributing little himself. He doesn't like my asking ABR for his reasoning on Adel, yet hasn't presented a case against me in his own words, instead relying on Sir Tornado's analysis.

As many have already stated, I really dislike the way Albert drove that wagon on Adel. Everyone who was on it (deadscilent, eroto, Patrick) pretty much succumbed to his pleas, which is a horrible reason to bandwagon. Both Erotomachia and Patrick also seem scummy for how easily they swayed from a ST lynch to Adel lynch.

Why would ABR, as scum, switch from Sir Tornado to Adel as the deadline approached? It's a needless risk. I don't think it makes any sense - unless you assume that Sir Tornado is scum and that ABR was trying to save his partner. And that's very bold.

In fact, I don’t understand why anyone, as scum, would shift their vote to Adel at the last minute in light of the fact that they could simply ignore the game and allow Sir Tornado to be lynched. So unless deadscilent and Patrick were making a last minute (and pretty desperate) move to save their scum partner, I don't see them as scummy.

[Erotomachia]

That might grow legs actually. Interesting....

You're considering kravhen? Why? On Day 1 everyone was pretty much agreed that deadscilent was the VI, and I don't see what kravhen has done today to base a vote off of.

[Erotomachia]

Maybe it'll grow legs. I'll see how things develop and maybe ill vote ChronX to make it grow legs. It's all about growing legs.

Rather interesting that you should post this immediately after Nabokov's post saying that such arguments were scummy. I'm guessing that this was intentional on your part...otherwise it's just silly.

[Erotomachia]

Unvote, vote d3sisted

Your BS is pissing me off.

Maybe...but this vote doesn't make any sense. Clearly either kravhen or Nabakov is scum. You should be voting for one of them. We're in lylo - no other choice is logical.

[Erotomachia]

Kravhen just claimed watcher and said that he saw Nabakov visit Sir Tornado, who was killed last night. Nabakov didn't counterclaim - he simply called it crap. I don't see how else you can interpret Nabakov's reply. So one of them must be lying. Either kravhen is lying about being a watcher, or Nabakov is lying about not having visited Sir Tornado.

[Erotomachia]

d3sisted's claim seems so absurd that I'm actually inclined to believe it. Seems to me that scum would try to make their claim more believable, and not claim an innocent on someone they voted for yesterday.

I also think it's somewhat unlikely that we have both a cop and a tracker.

[Erotomachia]

I think no lynching is a bad idea at this point. As I said before, it's clear that either kravhen or Nabakov is scum. I don't see how no lynching will help at all: someone will get killed off and we'll be in the same situation tomorrow. It's unclear whether the night kill will actually reveal more information: the mafia will have full control over who dies.

Right now I'm much more inclined to believe d3sisted's claim. His claim simply struck me as genuine...mostly because of how absurd it was (he actually voted for someone who he knew was innocent...). At this point in the game, I think the mafia would attempt a more "air-tight" gambit. So I do think that d3sisted is indeed the cop.

[Erotomachia]

How does a no lynch make the choice any easier? Either kravhen or Nabakov is scum and we've inevitably got to decide between them.

[Erotomachia]

Sorry, I've been sick. I didn't believe kravhen's watcher claim and was frankly about to vote for him (because, as I said before, I think d3sisted's claim is genuine), but now that he's claimed mason with ABR I believe him. As ridiculous as it is, the whole ploy fits ABR's personality. So by process of elimination, it looks like the three scum are theopor, pickem, and Blue Zebra. Blue Zebra in particular has been pretty opportunistic today, going after kravhen, then Nabakov, then kravhen again, and now suddenly me.

[Erotomachia]

I believe them not only because I think it's unlikely that scum would attempt such a risky gambit (failure would mean 2 out of 3 scum getting lynched), but also because it fits in with what happened early in the game. It explains why deadscilent followed ABR's wagon without asking any questions.