Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[Malchonn]

Vote: Death Omen

For voting for someone just because they like Ice Cream

[Malchonn]

He's usually quiet day 1 but this is a bit much.

Just taking it all in. Some of you talk funny.

Khev and Death Omen do look suspicious but I don't have a good read on anyone. Yet.

Unvote

Also I see Vamp (Vampyrusddg, if I say Vamp I will be referring to him, not Vampaneze) making his Vote rounds. StrangeFlea is talking sense, Muerrto hasn't started talking nonsense (yet) and Khev is kinds just weird, only observations so far.

[Malchonn]

Sorry Guys, I have been really busy this week and last weekend I will reread and post tonight.

Again my apologizes.

[Malchonn]

No need for Prod, I said I would post and I am.

1)

You say in #60 that both Khel and omen look suspicious. Could you expand on that?

Khel's "confirming vote" on page 2 was kinda off, just seemed a little early for anything like that, from either side.

Omen caught my eye because StrangeFlea pointed something out to him in post #43 and he really never responded to it.

Which of the two do you currently think more likely to be scum?

Rereading and rereading Omen's #96 post, kinda left me at a lost. One hand its sounds like a prod to Muerrto a crazy poster that is hard to read but did it in a bad way, he reason was almost saying I am voting for him because he is posting. Khel on the other hand seemed a little too defensive in a bad way by pointing out playstyles. Then he turned and voted for Omen, which was a vailid arguement. I would like to hear a response from Omen about Muerrto's post 121, about how he didn't defend himself and went on the attack.

2)

When you said that strangeflea was "talking sense", which of his posts did you have in mind?

#43 He said "seems like trying to get a real reason to vote someone, where there really isn't one... " To me this reads as someone reading between the lines, yes he could be stretching since was early but still shows town iniative, same with #52. But I really didn't understand the "Clairfy" arguement they seemed to just go around in circles.

[Malchonn]

#120

You guys seem to be trying to lynch me out so bad somestrangeflea and Khelvaster, do you guys even notice the lurkers in this game? Hjallti, Hyphen, Malchonn and

WLC

. They have contributed so little with such little relevance the town should be keeping a closer eye on them,

esspecially WLC

.

Malchonn and WLC are of the same mould it seems, they both have had problems post 2 line posts, saying they are sorry and will be posting later on. I will keep a closer eye on these two people.

...

In conclusion I think we should pay attention to the lurkers I mentioned above and watch somestrangeflea and

WLC

.

#135

WLC

you need to start posting your views on the game so far... We need to hear from everyone then collectively decide our next step.

Question for Death Omen, why are you so hung up on WLC? I think you probably could have address some other things in the #135 post instead just of a prod, just IMO

[Malchonn]

@ Malchonn, could you contribute more you only really started playing on this page. A review on every single player maybe, or something I just want to hear your views on this game in more detail than just quoting and posting a 2 line answer directed at one person...

Ask and ye shall recieve:

death_omen

- Obviously you're the "lead suspect", and I do agree with some of the arguements against you. I am not ready to make a vote against you, but I do suspect you. IGMEOY
@Death Omen- Do you think Khelv is scum or just confused?

DeathSauce

- Post #153 felt a little out of place, with all the death omen talk, he chimes in with a "suck-up on a grand scale" Muerrto to Pless. I do think that this is a good post, I just wished he would have added his feelings about the death omen situation, where he stands.
@DeathSauce- Do you think that Death Omen could be scum?

Hjallti

- No idea

Hyphen-ated

- Besides the fact he thinks Muerrto is scum, he really hasen't said much else. I have no idea which side he is on.

Khelvaster

-His lyncher-esque drive to bump off Omen is really got me worried, but I can't really tell what is motivating him. IGMEOY
@Khelv- In your opinion, what is the scummiest thing that Omen has said?

Muerrto

- Wicked crazy poster that I have come to know and love. He is always a tough read for me because he always posts a lot and I lose some info in the process, very defensive, but has seemed to answer everyones question that came to him. I have no idea which side he is on.
@Muerrto- Why is it that in your quote in post #164 you left out the part that Death Omen says "I am 100% town alligned"?

Plessiez

- Very intelligent and asks great questions that got the ball rolling, could be using his expierence and questions to distract, but right now I am thinking Town.
@Pless- You said earlier that you found Khelv's one sided investigation "rather irritating", does that mean you wouldn't vote Death Omen?

somestrangeflea

- For him being one of the non-lurkers, I really don't know exactly where is stands on the omen issue. His vote could just be the prod, but I guess he would've repealed it if he didn't think omen was scum. Sounds Town but then again not sure.
@Strangeflea- Where do you stand on the state of the game, Death Omen/Khelv/Lurkers?

VampanezeHunter

-No idea

vampyrusddg

- No idea

WeyounsLastClone

-No idea

4 votes on Death Omen (Muerrto, Khelv, Vampddg, StrangeFlea)
3 unsure (Vamphunter, Plessiez, and myself)
5 unknown (to my knowledge)

@5 unknown

- Help me out by telling me how you feel about Death Omen.

[Malchonn]

Welcome new person!

Khelv Wrote #185

Well, the mod obviously wouldn't go through night without all the scum being there. So, if we finish d1 before he gets replacements, we will know that none of the afkers are scum. Similarly, if he delays before getting replacements, we will know at least one of them are scum. Does this make sense?

First off, Khelv I don't think you should try and play the Mod, this one is tricksie. How do you know he wouldn't go to a night without a Scum active, if we would have rushed a lynch there would be no opportunity for him to replace so it would prove nothing, so either way he is going to do what he wants.

Secondly, One quick question

for Plessiez

...

Pless Wrote #200

Khel, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the people who are FOSing you right now: in particular Vampaneze, DeathSauce and somestrangeflea.

I'd also be interested to know how you'd rank the three of them as suspects in relation to each other.

Just wondering why you left out Vampddg and Hjalllti, they both FoS'd Khelv recently too. Lurkers/AFKers are people too.

[Malchonn]

Sorry Guys, end of the week is always tough for me to keep on top of things.

I have a couple questions for Khelv, before I think about voting.

You have strayed back and forth with your top suspects, a while back you were so sure Death_Omen was scum, recently you voted/revoted D_O. Though in #260 you say you're "thouroughly convinced" Muerrto is scum.

death_omen wrote:

Refusing to fight a vote or not defending youself is very bad.

coming from D_O is wrong...Seriously. There is no way I can justify not lynching him today, not even if Nellie or Muerrto claimed scum.

Are you thouroughly convinced that D_O

and

Muerrto are sum? If not which is "more" scum? I guess I was kind of looking for a defense after D_O called you out on it, except you went on the attack, reasons?

---

DeathSauce wrote:
I don't remember agreeing to answer every question asked of me in this game, and I'm pretty sure it's nowhere in the rules that I have to.

Oh, come on . I'm asking you to explain why you (relatively) quickly switched your suspicions of somebody. This isn't an at all unreasonable question to ask, in my view.

I as well don't think its unreasonable to answer a question giving to you. Not sure how you want us to take this...

[Malchonn]

I too am not sure how to take the role claim, he RC'd with only 3 votes on him, Khel was in just as hot water as D_O, but either way I don't think I can draw myself to vote D_O because if he is in fact the Cop it would make things tougher for us. I think that the argument that Muerrto makes about the reasons behind Khel's votes is definitely off. And honestly the whole joke/redirect to Muerrto of post #308 to me looks like "oops the guy I picked on RC'd, lets change the subject"

Khel wrote:

DeathSauce and Malchonn: What do you think about Nellie's loaded questioning of me?

1) If we all went with you and voted for Death Omen and he turned out to be Townie, would you volunteer yourself for our vote?

So, how would I answer this correctly?

Well how I would answer that is always no, because I don't believe in self sacrifice if you're town seems counter productive, and obviously if you're scum you wouldn't, so I don't see it as loaded but as a nonsense question.

In case anyone skims over the rest of this, here is a must-see from Muerrto's latest post.

But IF you believe he's a cop then we're obviously not scumbuddies and you have no case on me because I wouldn't be feeding him lines.

Claiming my argument is WIFOM after we saw how much people hated WIFOM is just a tactic to divert votes onto me. Again, read up on WIFOM.

If I'd said something like 'scum wouldn't feed lines to town' that would be WIFOM. But I didn't.

This speaks for itself. Muerrto can't pull a noob card like D_O. I'd like to see him try and get himself out of this latest megascumtell.

"megascumtell" caught my eye but please help me understand.
quote 1 says 'he is not feeding lines to D_O'
quote 2 gives an example of WIFOM not actually saying that, with the "If I'd" and the "But I didn't" makes me think that you were stretching for quotes. Because reading and rereading I don't see a "megascumtell"

So

Vote Khelvaster

so I do have to be the hammer. I think mine is 6

---

Something else to note...

Pless said:

The real cop - if there is one - should probably claim tomorrow though, I suppose. I don't see much reason to believe death_omen, but like others I'm not voting for a claimed cop with no counter claim.

Nelly said:

It is interesting to see how everyone else reacts to this and you all play thi game how you want to but my suggestion is IF YOU ARE THE COP and D.O is not DONT SAY ANYTHING...

I am kind of more inclined to agree with Nelly on how to handle the cop, not sure if this is an attempt to passively pull out the Cop by Pless. But I could just be reading too much into it.

[Malchonn]

EBWOP "so I

don't

have to be the hammer"

[Malchonn]

And btw, i investigated Malchonn n1 and it came back with a fail.. Either i have sanity issues or some idiot rb'ed me.

I have no idea why your investigation would fail. My assumption is that

As far as Khel goes he was truely my only real suspect so I am kinda at a loss for where we should go now. I really wished he wouldn't have gone after D_O that hard made him look really scummy. I wished we would have heard from him, after my vote I did say vote was at "6", in hopes we could've heard a little bit more from Khel, but it may have not made a differnce.

Anyone have any clue to why DeathSauce was whacked?

[Malchonn]

EBWOP "My assumption is that your were blocked."

[Malchonn]

I wished we would have heard from him, after my vote I did say vote was at "6", in hopes we could've heard a little bit more from Khel, but it may have not made a difference.

If you wanted to hear more from him, why

put

him at lynch -1 in the first place? What possible reason could you have for doing that?

Well he was my prime suspect, the only other real one claimed cop so I couldn't muster up a vote for him because of it. Also I didn't want to be the hammer it was either be the 6th on my highest target or not vote at all, in hindsight I should've not voted at all, because in most games I play we give the doomed one a chance to save himself/RC or whatnot before getting hauled off to the woodshed. I will definitely be more cautious of some of your itchy trigger fingers *cough* Nelly *cough* If he would have RC'd Vig I totally would have taken my vote down.

[Malchonn]

I dunno why no one has mentioned that maybe Malchonn's character role doesn't allow him to be investigated, like perhaps a godfather.

Vote: Malchonn

D.O role claimed to be cop then came out today and said he was bocked which I found interesting because I believe him...

So why exactly are you voting me (besides OMGUS)? You didn't really say, but with the quote you implied Godfather was the reason the investigation failed. Then you go on to say you believe the role block, I don't get this, you believe that D.O is a cop, and he was role blocked or do you think I am the godfather? Because if you believe the role block then anyperson that D.O investigated would have failed, and if my memory serves me, don't Godfathers come up Town on investigation?

Please elaborate your reason.

[Malchonn]

In conclusion... I think everyone wants to know why I hammered Khelvaster without giving him a chance to ROLECLAIM...

The reason for this was simple... We had D.O close to a lynch and alot of people were convinced that he was scum.. But then he comes out and with one post and a roleclaim he turns the tide because no one wanted to vote for a claimed cop role... So then we all turn to Khelvaster and get him close to a lynch and then someone says "Wait and let him roleclaim"...

Now what i was thinking was, he comes out and claims to be the Vigilante (He double checks his PM and sees the mistake) so now he makes this claim and everyone says "Oh well I dont want to lynch a claimed Vigilante role on day one" so then we go back to square one and lets say we all jumped on Vampy and then he got close to a lynch and then he claimed to be the Doc and we all stoep back and say "I dont want to lynch a claimed doc role on the first day"...

You see what I am saying, we had no real way of knowing if someone is telling the truth so I took it upon myself to hammer him...

You do realise you just contradicted yourself, right? Not only that but you basically just said that you believed Khev was town and hammered him before he could RC because there was no way to be sure if he was telling the truth, but that you believe DO's RC. Sooo...you just killed the Vig because why? You didn't want the day to go on longer? You didn't want to find out what his RC was before you hammered? There's just no possible explanation you can give for this, none. And trying to defend it makes it worse. You should have just said 'oops'.

Can you explain your hammer vote? Can you explain your explanation for your hammer vote?

2)I believe I explained this already. What about this was confusing to you because I thought it was rather clear.

The confusing part to me, about your reason, is when you mentioned D.O was getting close to being voted, then he role claimed then we changed direction; so when was at -6 Khel you decided not to let him role claim so we wouldn't change targets? So you took it upon yourself to sacrifice Khel so that others couldn't role claim to get out of trouble, whether fake role claims or not? I guess I can kind of see where you’re coming from; I could never justify that because the role claims could always be false. Just sounds more n00bish than WIFOM.

Question for all with votes or thinking about votes on Nelly

, Why you think Nelly's actions were more Scummy than N00b?

Flea said:

1. I never said it wasn't a gut feeling. I said that a gut feeling was a lousy reason to the single people out with HoSes which try to make out that you suspect them more than anyone else.
2. And you are jumping in defense of your ridiculous claims.
3. Scumhunt please, Vote: Nelly

Well, wouldn't you defend yourself? I see how his reasons are very strange but being defensive and disagreeing with you doesn’t really warrant a vote does it?

Hjallti said:

vote: Nelly632 I can life with putting him on lynch minus 2

Please put a little more thought into your reason. A single one-line bandwagon vote doesn't look very good to me. You’re not instilling me with a true town nature.

FoS Hjallti

[Malchonn]

I was very suspicious of him as we went into n1 putting Khel at -1 for no real strong reason was an extreme guilt look, in my eyes. I investigated him n1, as you know it came back fail that just doubled my suspicion on him.

Like I said before tho, you were blocked that means any person you would have investigated would fail. And I have already expressed my reasons for my vote.

I am not really sure why you guys are saying I am quiet, I have posted 15 times in 18 pages, remove muerrto's long ass posts and it would be once per page.

Death Omen- I really don't know if the guy is scum or not, its sounds like he doesn't understand the blocking, or he made up the "Failed" to get his lynch, not sure. But again I really don't know if he is the cop or not, so I cannot vote him.

Nelly- Easiest choicest aren't always the best, day1 hammer on the Vig w/o letting him RC in my mind was a huge mistake, but that said Town can make mistakes too, and if Muerrto is right about the numbers, someone will have to point out something major, or someone will have to slip up big for me to vote anytime soon.

I understand the impact a vote can make on a player to try and peel info out of him, I just think Nelly, Omen, Muerrto and others are voting way to early, if such an important day.

[Malchonn]

I am very sorry for my absense. I realize one of the reason we may hav e a deadline is because of people like me not taking the time to look here or post, again my apologizes.

Malchonn - who is at the top of your list?

Doing a reread after this so you will get a double post, but Nelly is #1. There are a couple others at the top like Muerrto and Hjallti, mainly just more my own suspicion nothing soild. I would put D.O on the list but the thoery of the roleblock seems to be what I am leaning towards that would make D.O town, but then again Ples has some good arguements to the contrary.

[Malchonn]

Looks as though there are 2 scenarios that everyone has came up with to understand the Failed test.

A. Role block by scum

D.O investigates and it fails because we have a scum role blocker.

B. D.O is faking it

In the faking scenario D.O says fail because he doesn’t want peg he fellow scum, at the same time doesn't want to peg a town because obviously cause a miss lynch.

Contrary to Ples, I don't see why there is not the possibilty of a scum blocker, so I am leaning towards option

A

, at the same time I will not be trusting D.O completely until I get further proof.

I have kind of already gone over my reasons on Nelly, obviously the hammer still shines, but even further I was kind of expecting a response to my post 376. Where I called him a noob and threw out a scenario, I was wondering if I was even close, but I got no response. In all fairness he did get caught up in a Muerrto debate so I can see how he got distracted.

Here is why I said Hjallti-

Hjallti 357-

If death_omen is scum with a false claim, he could be winning the game for scum right now.

If I go with scenario

A.

and he really is the Cop than you can look at this as an attempt to steer us. I am stretching a bit I know, wifom, but like I said in my last post I really have nothing solid.

Hjallti 365-

vote: Nelly632 I can life with putting him on lynch minus 2

I have already stated why I thought this was scummy, I never like it when someone Votes with reasons unknown to us.

Hjallti 410-

I did put thought in it. I think it is a bit scummy to represent that vote like this.
Before the vote I already explained that I am agreeing with the points against Nelly, but that I didn't take the trouble to spell it out.

I didn't get a chance to post on this yet in my absence so...
Please take the trouble, I was not misrepresenting because when you gave us nothing but the vote, I had know idea you had a reason.

FoS Hjallti

Nothing solid enough for a vote, but FoS non-the-less

It’s hard for me to post anything about my reasons for suspecting Muerrto but I can say that my play style and his always butts heads. I am newer to the Mafia (4 or 5 games under my belt) and I can never seem to grasp what the hell he is saying, "what does he actually mean by that?" He throws me for a loop. Example Post #465 He starts of by agreeing to part of what Ples is saying, but Ples's overall was saying that he was doubting the existence of the scum blocker, later in that same post Muerrto says

So for now we have no choice but to take him at his word.

Meaning D.O is the cop and he was RB'd. I just never know where he stands.

[Malchonn]

Agreed..

Vote:Nelly632

Your kind of play is bad on the whole, try defending yourself with proper statements and NEVER take the game of mafia seriously.. EVER

I am not taking this game too seriously I have given you all more then enough reasons to vote me and yet we sit here and I am not lynched... Come on guys lets get on ball how do you expect to win this game if you let SCUM like me walk around in your back yard...

I am sorry I am confused are you claiming scum or are you being sarcastic?