Mini 458 - Game over!

[curiouskarmadog]

once I read and digest the 12 pages, I will jump into the fray..

[curiouskarmadog]

Christ, that was 12 pages of a big pile of confusing. OK first lets

unvote: J-man

.

Even though the “lets-get-a-quick-lynch-and-see-what-happens,-wait-I-didnt-mean-me” maneuver was idiotic, admitting he thought about false claiming idea was sad, and I will just take my ball and go home (i.e. I will kill myself) was just plain immature…..

..actually I just talked myself back into

FoS-ing: J-man

. I think he has got some power. Town or mafia power I just don’t know yet.

From page one however, I have thought dylan41985 was quite scummy. For reasons that everyone has already stated. So..

vote dylan41985

I know that puts him close to lynching and that looks scummy (for me), but if I am right and he is scum, then we benefit.

[curiouskarmadog]

Let me address I couple different items here…first:

curiouskarmadog=Tromboner

Again, a lurking player recently replaced. Tromboner was acting really weird: voting no-lynch, voting molestargazer just because of the bandwagon, then disappearing. curiouskarmadog hasn't posted much, and didn't say much. Voting J-man because he "has some power"?? Unvoting and then jumping on a bandwagon? Don't like this player much at all.

Actually since I have been here (to replace Tromboner) I only unvoted J-Man and voted Dylan. I never placed a vote on J-man (that was done by Tromboner before I got here). But I understand your mistake, I had to come in reading 12 pages of thread too.

I didn’t so much jump on a bandwagon as much as I thought Dylan was guilty. Why did/do I think Dylan is scummy? (to answer Adel’s question too) More of the same everyone else has said. He usually pops in only to cast a vote. Lurks. Then when the heat is on makes a very poor defense. Just looks scummy.

BUT, then I started thinking. Went to bed last night (after I read Adel’s unvote) and thought about it. (considering I am relatively new, is it bad to think about this game while trying to sleep?) Once I got up and saw that he “hopes” we vote for him I decided he is probably telling the truth (about hoping we vote for him). I think he is not so much lurking, but not interested in the game because he does not have any power. He is probably young and wants to be a in a game where he can do something, and if he does not have power, he is bored with it. Which probably explains why so many replacements were needed for this game. I think Dylan is immature and does want to see us lynch him so he can say I “told you so” So…

Unvote Dylan41985

Numenorean7, enjoyed reading your brief analysis (even though it does target me). I hope it is not some grand mafia trick to divert our eyes from you. But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia. At any rate, your post made me go back and look at everyone…Kate is setting off my scum vibe so I thought it was funny that she did yours as well (underneath my apparent scumminess, of course) I do not like when people use older games as defenses, she IS unpleasant, and she defends one of the town’s scummiest looking (J-Man). But doesn’t have a problem putting away Dylan…Is there a Kate + J-Man connection? Numenorean7, you have indirectly made me look at J-man again…at any rate, I think it would be worth a Kate vote…to see her reaction.

Vote: Kate

Also keeping an eye on the MoS and Pick contest….guess we will have to wait till Pick gets back for that to continue.

And Adel, liked the graphic, have no freaking clue what I am looking at, but a appreciate the effort.

[curiouskarmadog]

[quote="Kate] i don't remember using any older games as a defense, this is actually only my second game on the site. I don't think i was defending J-man, [/quote]

Well let me refresh your memory. In post 57 you reference an old game and defend J-man

In my old game I was last to confirm, but I was the cop.

and here again, you help him in post 113

So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!
About the whole lurking thing, just because you're not talking as much, doesn't mean you're scum, maybe you're just busy or don't have anything to say about what's going on.
I think Adel is more suspicious in my eyes, how before it seemed he was pushing to kill the lurkers, and looks like he wants bandwagons:

You keep defending him in post 122, 136 (later in the post), 155...and on and on.

it was a pain to go back and read those posts...so please next time you lie, make it a good one.

[curiouskarmadog]

But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

This is the only line that stands out to me. I didn't believe that for a second. It is a horrible reason for thinking that someone isn't scummy. Care to explain?

Yeah sure no problem. Keep in mind this is only my theory. I think for the most part replacements are vanilla townies. I think if some research was done on replaced people it would be discovered that 99.99% of them were townies. Here is why. People on this board play multiple games at once. It can get every confusing. What would you rather spend your time with? A game where you had no power, or a game that you had the power (like mafia)? Granted there are exceptions: vacations, illness, etc etc, but for the most part, those “characters” needing replacements would rather play other games and are not very interested in games that they have no power, that is why they “lurk” or quit all together. So in general (again there are always exceptions) I don’t look to the replaced characters first.

Starting a wagon on Kate doesn't appeal to me after J-man and dylan41985, I think it could just be another wagon on a weaker player.

I am not so sure we

should

let J-man off the rope. In my opinion Kate and J-man are together.

[curiouskarmadog]

This was number 122, and wasn't about j-man. Any posts about claiming and stuff are about how i don't like the whole claiming idea, not about making any specific person to claim, just forcing to claim in general.

Right, you are discussing logic, however at the same time you are defending j-man. You dont want to vote him out or you dont want him to claim. Yet you never ask J-man questions about his possible guilt. You just assume he is innocent, or you just do not care. Actually you dont really ask anyone questions, is that because you already know the answers?..Like who is mafia?

[curiouskarmadog]

Really, I just checked, J-man voted MoS on page 6, and was the only one voting him up 'till page 11, when NabNab voted him.

defends AGAIN....

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not defending J-man, I'm accusing NabNab.

do you honestly think we are gong to believe that you are not defending j-man in that post? Please do not make me break this down AGAIN for you. I think it is also pretty scummy that you keep defending him (sometmies indirectly, yes) but wont admit that you are.

[curiouskarmadog]

well i'm not trying to defend j-man, someone else said this, it was meant for other threads right? my point is that you shouldn't force someone to claim on day one, you won't get a good answer, you'll always get vanilla townie. That has nothing to do with j-man, that was about having someone, actually anyone, claim. i don't want to vote him out, i would vote him, but then he was at -1, and i wasn't willing to lynch him, but i still didn't want anyone to claim so early in the game.What kind of questions should i ask? I don't really ask anyone questions in this game, its just not my play-style. I don't assume he's innocent, and i do care, i just don't want to lynch him.

What? Finding out information for the town is not your play style? What kind of responsible townie are you? You dont ask questions in this game because you kow the answers? How as a town are we suppose to get one up on the mafia without asking them questions? If we dont ask questions or inspire conversation, then the town will no lynch or lynch improperly and the mafia can pick us off one by one...or maybe, you dont ask questions, because you do not want to draw attention to yourself? That indicates some sort of power role crippled with the fact she is acting quite anti-town (reasons previously stated in other posts) that spells S C U M.....

[curiouskarmadog]

Now, CKD, you're pushing this way beyond its helpful limits, and I don't think anyone's going o follow thi as anacceptable case on Kate. She had a kind of point, and all you'e saying is that her good point kind of slides suspiion off of someone suspicious. Well, it DOESN'T! He hasn't claimed, and she's just talking about claiming. J-man is STILL suspicious, and he'll remain that way either until he's lynched, or the game ends! What you're doing here reeks really bad to me, and puts you on my list of scummies as well, een though you weren't before. =\

FOS: CKD

I never said I cared one way or the other about "claiming". I agree claiming is hardly ever relevant. However, this was not the only post that Kate defends J-man...I think J-Man is scummy, and I wonder why Kate defends him. Please reread my post, she DOES defend him over and over again....This claiming issue was just one way she defends him (yes, I said before indirectly).

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, your entire line of thinking relies on the assumption that J-Man is scum, if J-Man is scum it

might

logically follow that Kate is scum for defending him. However, why aren't you voting J-Man? It doesn't make any sense to vote the connection but not the source. If J-man is lynched (looking increasingly unlikely, dude has no votes) and comes up scum, then we can lynch Kate, but for now you're just building castles in the air. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but don't press it.

ugh, I guess you have a point...I hate backing down though. Think you sold me with the "building castles in the air" comment. You appealed to the poetic side of me....at any rate, you are right or at least you make sense...so

Unvote Kate, Vote J-man

FoS: Kate

, though

which means at the point as a replacement (or a player in this game) I have been pretty useless considering the first thing I did after replacing the player was unvote J-man...sorry town.

[curiouskarmadog]

Wait...did ckd

actually

say that replacements are less likely to be mafia? Umm, that is so wrong on so many levels, and it stinks of scum just trying to clear themselves by saying all the other replacements are less likely to be scum.

FoS: CKD

yeah I did...just my personal theory and experience. Granted I am new, but I would put good money on that most replacements (i.e. higher than normal game percentages) are townie. I know, this is bad logic. But until I see something that proves me wrong, I will stick to it.

but I understand your FoS on me.

[curiouskarmadog]

Wait, you know it's bad logic, but you'll stick with it? That makes no sense whatsoever. All it takes is a quick look through past games to realize that you are wrong. I can't count the number of times I have replaced into a game as scum. Off the top of my head, there was Dichotomafia and one of the DP games (11, I think). I haven't done any replacing in over a year, for the most part, so it's hard to recall the various games.

well you have that experience to go on. I am a betting man, and have noted how many people bow out of games (that I have then replaced) and were town, yet they are strong posters on other threads….that I am sure they found more interesting because they probably had power in other games. So far in my career with this game (this site and others), every time I have been a replacement, I have been a townie.

...at any rate, it was just a theory...I have not read too many threads that I am not in...can you direct me to one that had such a scenario?

At this point in the game, replacements are not on my radar. This game is up to 3 now right? I think there are far more scummier people in this thread.

[curiouskarmadog]

I changed my vote to J-man off of Kate in post 355

Vote Count (#12)

dylan41985: 5 (ThAdmiral, Kate, molestargazer, HungryJoe, J-man)
curiouskarmadog: 2 (Numeronean7, Adel)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dylan41985)
pickemgenius: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Kate: 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 2 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Prod sent to ThAdmiral and Numenorean7.

Oh and Deadlines are bad Per were arn't ready to make a lynch yet not enought info out there yet give us a a couple more days or a week, before you announce deadline plz :'( deadlines tend to cause townies to get lynched.

Yes, I know. But Day 1 has been going on for quite some time now, and no really big new issues have come forward in the past days. I will probably be aiming for the 4th of July for the deadline. No reason to panic yet.

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote Count (#12)

dylan41985: 5 (ThAdmiral, Kate, molestargazer, HungryJoe, J-man)
curiouskarmadog: 2 (Numeronean7, Adel)
Mastermind of Sin: 1 (dylan41985)
pickemgenius: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
J-man: 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 2 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Well, with Pick moving his vote to dylan we are indeed one away. Not sure why he is telling us to proceed with caution, when Pick a.) thinks Dylan is scum and b.) Proceeds to go post by post why Dylan is scummy. If he is scum don’t you want to vote him?

You're horrible scum if you're scum, and you're a worse townie if innocent! I've reached the stage where even if you

do

come up innocent, I won't regret it because at this stage, you're practically scum even as a townie! You draw suspicion away from them entirely, and because of it, they can slide by with a smug grin and without a care, because you are practically lynchig yourself FOR THEM!

I agree with the first part of this statement. However, even if he is the town idiot, he is still the town, which helps our odds. I am adamant about who I think are the scum, and Dylan just does not fit into my suspicions. Unless someone sees a Dylan-J-man-Kate connection. (how many mafia are the suppose to be in this game, sorry I can find that post, I think it is 3-4?) I do not have enough information to vote for him, much less cast that last vote to hang him. The only information I can deduce from hanging him (provided that he

is

the town idiot) is to check who pushed to vote him and who actually voted (which would indeed help my J-man/Kate theory)…but I cant vote someone I think is an idiot town to help that theory…

I think he does not care if he stays in this game or not. I think given his apparent immaturity that if he had any power (town or mafia) he would at least try a little harder.

So I will take Pick's reccomendation and show caution.

[curiouskarmadog]

oh yeah, and MoS...think my theory about replacements (higher than normal % are town) are about to be shattered..in another game that a replacement is coming in for a character I am certian is scummy...however, the roles are not known yet soo...who knows.

[curiouskarmadog]

However, even if he is the town idiot, he is still the town, which helps our odds.

I disagree.
With the way he's playing, he's just drawing logical attention to himself, and taking attention away from the scum who can just sit back.

I disagree with your disagreement on many levels. Are you saying that you do not have enough will power to be able to over look the town idiot? There is more than 1 mafia out there. Are you suggesting, with Dylan around, you simply lack the capacity to look for other scum? With Dylan here (assuming he is the town idiot) he gives the town another person the mafia will have to get rid of (thus improving our odds). I find it interesting that you want to argue improving the town’s odd against the mafia. OR are you wanting to do the mafia’s work for them?

At any rate I am definitely

FoSing molestargazer

….if this lynch goes down (and it probably will) it will be interesting to see who really pushed this hasty lynch (during the reread)…

this town is full of scummy people (see my previous posts) J-man is as guilty (in many regards) as Dylan...yet he is under the radar right now...I wonder why that is?

[curiouskarmadog]

You seem to be misinterpriting my post. I'm simply saying that it would be foolish to overlook dylan's scummy behaviour by saying he might just be a badly-playing townie. I think he's scum, and I personally think that ignoring his scumminess may just be advantageous to the mafia.

No I do not think I misinterpreted anything.

I said:

However, even if he is the town idiot, he is still the town, which helps our odds.

And you said you disagreed with that statement. You even quoted me directly disagreeing because his scummy behavior detracted from other mafia. I was saying I thought he the town idiot, by disagreeing the way that you did you are saying that even if he is the town idiot, you want to lynch him. Now, you might have misspoke or quoted me incorrectly, but I interpreted this disagreement correctly. Ignoring scummy behavior and not wanting to lynch a bad player yet are two completely different things.

Dylan aside, I would like to hear your opinion on others you think are scummy here and why? Because if Dylan is scum…he has got some buddies. And sure, since I am opposing a hasty lynch on someone I think is immature, you can throw my name in the there. I think it would be “advantageous” for the town to discuss this now versus after the lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

You are "adamant about who I think are the scum"? I assume you mean Kate and J-man. Surely there's not enough evidence for to be adamant yet? I'm no fan of Kate or J-man, but I think being adamant about anything on Day 1 is risky at best. The only people who can be sure of anything yet are the Mafia....

Being “adamant” or “insistent” is completely different than thinking anything is a sure thing. Now, what “strikes me” as interesting is the fact that you are setting me up for a Day 2 suspicion now aren’t you?

He's pretty sure that there will be a dylan lynch, and he wants to be able to say, "I told you so" on Day 2. I know this is completely insubstantial, not evidence at all. But it just strikes me that way.

Lets say the “Dylan lynching” goes down and he is innocent…”Hmmm, is Num right? Is Curious trying to say I told you” if he is guilty “Hmm, Curious really did not want that lynch”. Sort of a lose-lose situation for me you are painting there aren’t you? If Dylan is innocent, I want to explore who really pushed this lynch…but you would rather focus who opposed it? Interesting. I think you are stretching. In your eyes right now, you think I am scum, so anything I might do will be scummy…but that is a stretch.

[curiouskarmadog]

What information do we gain from lynching dylan today? We have nothing to go on from his lynch, so we just revert to everyone else we were attacking today. He is most likely not scum, and his lynch will not accomplish anything. I'd rather just request that he be replaced, because he obviously is not playing the game, nor does he have any wish to play. Even if we can't replace him, though, we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually.

QFT

J-man is still a candidate, but not much of one. It is interesting the pickemgenius just used similar warning against a dylan lynch that he did against a J-man lynch, which made MOS so suspicious of him in the first place. My vote remains on curiouskarmadog.

And why is J-man not a candidate? Because he has said actually Jack lately...seems like a smart move. Basically this posts says, J-man and Pick could be candidates, but I would rather keep my vote on Curious...ahh, logic

[curiouskarmadog]

in actuallity i just dont want to play with Dylan i have had him with me in too many games and he does the same things so yes i am sick of it, it allways ends up in a town lynch anyway because no1 wants to go to lylo with Dylan (would you?) kill me if you will but from now on i will not rest until Dylan dies, or i will ask to be replaced, i will not play with som1 who will not play the game.

He does this every game? Then it is his poor place style. Just because you are tired of it, in no means we should lynch the VI. Again, I think he is town...I DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH TOWN...and I am considered with why everybody who does. Dylan is not "distracting" us..we are. Lets move on. J-man actions are not pro-twon....MoS please show me a post where J-man has been pro-town. Lynching someone who is just a poor player and is probably town will only put the odds in the mafia's favor.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, please show me a post where Dylan has been protown and I will show you a post where J-man has been protown. Please don't be a hypocrit.

ahh, got me there..very good point..

so your opinion is that Dylan is scummier than J-man?

[curiouskarmadog]

Edit by post : Post 415 play=place

[curiouskarmadog]

well, I am sure we can go round and round about who we think is scummer. I admit I can not find much that proves that Dylan is pro-town, but I think he is just inexperienced, as indirectly and unintentionally proven by J-man (describing Dyaln's other games). At least we both agree that a Dylan lynching proves little. I do some what agree with J-man however...if Dylan does not post more soon, he should be prodded then replaced. Replaced or Lynched seems pretty apathetic to me, J-man. Since you are referencing other games, these games that you have always resulted in a lynch, was Dylan mafia or town? If we play smart, and not lynch the VI, we wont get into a lylo situation.

If he is to be replaced, I would like to see how the replacement acted, before we lynch him.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod- I would like to be replaced

Well Christ. Now what? SO you want to be replaced because you can not stand Dylan? Didnt you see Dylan in the lineup when you confirmed? Will have to reread but was there much interaction between Dylan and J-man…and why didnt J-man say in his public post that he only wanted to be replaced if Dylan wasn’t? Who knows…

Personally I think he cracked. Maybe he has some RL stuff going on, might investigate to see if you are active in other games.

Day 2 suspicion? What about Day 1 suspicion?
We seem to be using different definitions of adamant:

adamant - utterly unyielding in attitude or opinion in spite of all appeals, urgings, etc

In the same dictionary.com site

Adamant - determined or insistent

Your original post you were referencing Day 2 I addressed that. We am aware of your suspicion for Day 1.

Well, perhaps a replacement will be helpful. I wonder what curious will think of this: the new guy can't be Mafia since he was a replacement.

(laugh) it certianly does not help my theory that there are a higher than normal ratio of townie versus mafia in replacements, does it? Well, J-man has not been replaced yet.

and one other thing I keep meaning to get back to...

Why are you being so dismissive curiouskarmadog? The logic is there, just in previous posts. You are correct though, in addition to yourself and dylan, J-man and pickem are the other probable scum candidates.. mostly because your ruse to build a bandwagon on Kate in order to force her to claim failed. You will not fool the rest of the town for long.

What? What I am being dismissive about? I did not particularly like your mistruth either, please show us where I asked (or even implied) I wanted Kate to claim? I think claiming on the most part is silly Day 1..maybe you should spend less time making silly charts no one can read and means little, to actually reading the posts. Matter of fact, other than regurgitating what other people have said and misquoting people, what have you really added to the discussion?

FoS Adel

[curiouskarmadog]

Thanks for breaking down my posts…all you really have shown, is that I believe Kate and J-man are guilty and I am looking for their 3rd. You have also demonstrated how I have been trying to get the group to questions others as not to lynch the VI.

you pressured kate, hard and relentlessly, clearly attempting to establish a bandwagon based on nothing more than her defending J-man. Once your bandwagon clearly was unable to move, you poke around a little, accuse several players while revealing yourself to be a hypocrite, and finally you attack me.

how am I hypocrite? I am actually doing something for the town.

I am starting a bandwagon on you now. I've quietly voiced my suspicions for a while now, letting you post more, watching you flail about trying to discover who is a weaker player not who is a scummier player.

You have been hungry for another bandwagon, I hope you appreciate the irony that it is on you.

This whole statement is ridiculous. Quietly voiced? You are joking right? You have tried to get this bandwagon started for some time now. I am not hungry for another bandwagon, I just want to lynch scum. I am trying to discover weaker players? Really, by your own account I have “attacked” Mole, Num, and yourself? I don’t define either of the 3 as weaker players, do you? I think J-man and Kate are scum, do you think they are less scummier than Mole, Num, and yourself? Then how am I looking for weaker players? I am trying to find scum.

Ok, again adel you have twisted my actions and thoughts somewhat. I wouldn’t say I attacked Num what as much as attacked his set up for a day 2 suspicion (either way you are scum logic). I think Numenorean7 is town, at least his reasoning seems pro-town. I also understand why Numenorean7 is helping with the start of the wagon on me, because he thinks I am scum, and he can not peg down Dylan, who he also thinks is scum…so I have no hard feelings toward you Numenorean7, do what you go to. But Adel you are wasting the town’s time, and that looks suspicious to me. Go ahead and start your bandwagon...I am interested to see who joins it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Yep, it is going to really pick up steam now. (laughing) I think this bandwagon will be ripe for the lynching so I will help everyone on the reread later. Here is the running total.

Numenorean7,
Adel
J-man who is now Crub

Need 4 more, which wont be hard because I havent made many friends here as a replacement trying to stir conversation for scum hunting. Guess I left myself open for a perfect mafia manipulated lynched. I actually think my band wagon might provide the most information yet for the town. This is where it will get interesting, me thinks.

At any rate, I will provide (again for your Adel) why I feel Crub is scum when I have more time to quote posts and go through the thread. But I doubt you really need or want it.

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

[curiouskarmadog]

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

[curiouskarmadog]

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

The only reason I think Kate is scum is because I think you are scum, and I think there is a connection between Kate and You. I'm basing this on, as I said before how Kate reacted to Tromboners, No Lynch and how you attacked her for 2 pages and then gave up your attack because kate appealed to your "poetic side"

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

Personally I don't think you can tell much from a person's position in a bandwagon the whole thing seems WIFOM to me. Having said that I'm not trying to get in early, I'm trying to get in on the right target.

DUDE, you really need to go reread this thread again...your facts are VERY wrong....this only helps my case against this scum..when I get sometime this weekend...I will prove it.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

This just seems like a pointless attack and finger-pointing on a new replacement to me.

this actually wasnt pointless, he completely messed up his facts (will show you how my "why I think crub is scummy" post, which I hope I can do tomorrow.

AND for the reread that will come!

Numenorean7,
Adel
Crub
MoS

Not surprised by this vote though, MoS thinks more info will come by my hanging than Dylan's..which I tend to agree, which is why I am posting the vote count, it will be easy for the town later. My hanging will result in a lot of suspicion on Numenorean7, Adel(who really pushed for it), and the hammer. This is how I think the votes will go down from here…I will get the HungryJoe vote once he logs back in and once Admiral sees the town is in to the bandwagon he will do his trademark not much content vote…who will be the 3rd? My guess is mole or Kate (both would have reason to vote). Of course I would not be surprised if the VI did me in...that my friends WOULD be irony. That leaves NabNab and Pick. Now Pick has been in and out since MoS turned the pressure on him, and he is the only one who (as of late) hasn’t jumped on my bandwagon or FoSed me and I already have NabNab’s FoS. So it really doesn’t look good for me. I am confident Hungryjoe and Admiral votes will come shortly…so who will be the hammer?

Interesting thought to ponder, for a guy (who is on the chopping block for being mafia) I sure have a ton of people as enemies and little support.

At any rate, give me till Sunday (it will be time consuming) to get my Crub is SCUM post in…and since I cant post after I am dead, I want to get all my finger pointing in now.

[curiouskarmadog]

For your information I wasn't planning to vote for you but your smug comment "I am confident Hungryjoe and Admiral votes will come shortly" makes me want to more than ever.

then do so or just add to the conversation more. I am not afraid of this lynch. I came into this game as a replacement and not from the beginning...OF course I dont want to be lynched, but this thing will happen. I just want the town to learn something from the lynch that is all. Admiral, why weren’t you going to vote for me before? You thought I was town? Or didn’t want to be part of the wagon?

I am disappointed by the NabNab vote. I am not resigning to anything. This lynch will happen because the mafia is REALLY manipulating you guys. I am typing this to help you guys later. THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE. I am not trying to appeal to emotion from anyone. Hopefully by this lynch, you guys will figure out where to go next. Not being the VI here, NabNab…their posts where mainly, “go ahead and lynch me, you will be sorry, and this is who I think are scum”….I WANT you to lynch me…At the time Crub and Dylan lynches would not have helped you, though I feel a Crub lynch now will give us tons of info, just the bandwagon alone is given you guys much info, but without my lynch, it doesnt have much context.

At any rate, will be gone for most of the day, will be back this evening, at least let me get that Crub post in.

AND for the reread that will come!

Numenorean7,
Adel
Crub
MoS
NabNab

You want a claim NabNab? Vanilla town here, but really what else would anyone say? 2 more votes..

[curiouskarmadog]

Alright, a couple of things I would like to address before I get into the reread for the “Crub is scum” post. Not surprised by the Kate vote. Adel is right, in the fact that, Kate is a weaker player.

Wow curious, I'm dissapointed. I thought of anyone, you would post a good defense. Why don't you actually post a defense? You take all the time to post who's gonna vote you, or how lynching you is good for the town. The only way lynching you will be good is if you are mafia.

Kate, I am new to this game, but, you do not see how lynching me would be good? Well, then you are playing the wrong type of game. At this point, lynching me would really expose those who pushed to vote for me, FoSed me, voted because everyone else was(like you), and so on. Also tons of information can be discovered after a heated mislynch. Personally I would rather we lynch scum.

Pick,

FTR, I never said replacements cant be scum. I said I bet there is a higher ration than normal of townies. I used words like “doubt” for a reason.

Also,

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

The only reason I think Kate is scum is because I think you are scum, and I think there is a connection between Kate and You. I'm basing this on, as I said before how Kate reacted to Tromboners, No Lynch and how you attacked her for 2 pages and then gave up your attack because kate appealed to your "poetic side"

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

Personally I don't think you can tell much from a person's position in a bandwagon the whole thing seems WIFOM to me. Having said that I'm not trying to get in early, I'm trying to get in on the right target.

DUDE, you really need to go reread this thread again...your facts are VERY wrong....this only helps my case against this scum..when I get sometime this weekend...I will prove it.

-Umm, Kate is scum because J-man(Crub) is scum.
- Him voting for you and wanting to get in on the right target helps your case against him to being scum?
-Also the weekend is now over.

I think you misread this quote here, CRUB says he thinks Kate is Scum because I am scum, I questioned him on that logic.

Now not getting the HungryJoe vote (as of now) was surprising. I thought he was hot for any “scummy” looking lynch. Guess he felt Dylan was scummer.

At any rate, going to start the Crub post now….going to take me some time.

ALSO, I look forward to reaidng Kate's reponse to MoS's questions.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am typing it..is is coming in 15 minutes.

[curiouskarmadog]

Crub is scum

We going to start from the beginning.

VOTE:DanMonkey

thats what you get for posting on 9:46 my least favorite minute of the day

random vote, silly reason.

Post 41: gets rid of random vote, vote tromboner because he wanted a no lynch. Another joke.

Lurks till Post 62:

Down with tromboner

no lynch this ealry in first day is stupid and stupid people will be more likely to break under pressure therefore...

BANDWAGON TOMBONER

Pretty early in the game for name calling and attempts for a bandwagon.

Post 71:

cmon guys lets get rolling bandwagons only work well if people actually jump on *wink its called gravity oh and by the way we are on a slope (hence the gravity)

Really trying to get the wagon going. Looking for a quick lynch?

Post 84:

adel that i agree with entirely which is why I Lynch all Lurkers cmon guys vote tromboner hes either lurking or inactive both i will kill without remorse, o and im not a werewolf just wanna get this game moving.

Agrees with Adel, lynching the lurkers is a good idea, huh? Who cares if they are a townie or not, interesting.

Post 96:

see its 2:30 am where i am and in a normal circumstance i would wait until i could create some more coherant thoughts but my mind tells me that i should address this soon rather then letting people speculate, firstly in response to what my vote will be since tromboner has now posted is, it will not change.

why you ask? well for this reason that yes i know is based on poor logic but at this time any logic poorly based or not is better then what we have, my vote remains of tromboner because of this post

My people have brought up the fact that i did vote no lynch. My reasoning behind this vote was to see who would be the most eager to jump on someone else's' back and direct attention away from themselves. I have have found the person that i was looking for.

Unvote.
FoS: J-man
Vote: J-man

However since J-man has no bandwagon forming that could overtake my rather large bandwagon and not getting killed is my strategy.

Unvote
Vote: Molestargazer

for two reasons one is the first half of the post the other the second half.

the first half, the part about him posting his nolynch and seeing who would jump on his back directly conflicts with his second part, the part about his stratagy is to not be killed (too mafia/too townie you might ask?) the other point in the first half is the view that i am directing attention AWAY from myself pah as if being an active poster EVER directed attention away lol so that statement i will consider moot (either to a newbie error or attempt at such).
the second half you ask what sir may be wrong with that? hes just trying to stay alive? well my kind sir i shall answer that very question, in the objectives of the 'groups' there is one group that tries to live til the end and when i say live i mean that is there specific goal, they must be the last standing, which however badly worded and articulated that was is the mafia my friend a townsperson should be prepared to give up his life now not ust simply so a townsperson can die but so that information can be gleaned from a death however innocent the person may be it will often draw attention to another person mabye even a mafia, and the difference between a mafia's target and a townspersons is that one relies on secrecy and dark allets while the other MUST kill the mafia not avoid getting themselves killed because i know that I, as a townsperson would gladly give up my life if there was no other way to find that most insidious mafia conclave.

well that my kind sir is my take on tromboner, i do not with his death with as much vehemency now that he is posting but know tromboner that IGMEOY and very closely indeed

oh and tromboner i would like your defence to this if you brush this off i will call for your lynch, yes i will early lynch you

Jesus, use a comma and quit with the bad humor. I actually am trying to decipher this post. Seems he is still urging for the tromboner lynch, even if he is innocent, because it will help the town get information? What? How scummy is this post?

Post 97: watching Admiral because of the Admiral’s pressure vote.

Post 110: basically just calls tromboner scum.

Post 111:

oh sry i forgot to mention this in my other post

theadmiral in response to your response to me i have 1 thing to say, its not my job to convince you to not vote me its your job to kill a mafia as well as mine since im am quite convinced that your just a confused townsperson.

Its “your” job to kill mafia as well as mine. How about “its our job to kill mafia” Almost sounds like you are on opposite teams. He is “quite convinced” that Admiral is town. Almost sounds like adamant, which Num has pointed out, no one can be adamant at this point.

Post:128 :

now i was really tempted to claim cop/doc just to make you guys squirm because i know that since i am a vannilla townie i really dont have a whole lot of use to you guys, i mean kill me if you will althought esspeccially this early in day 1 its not a good idea (and yes nomatter how many pages we have turned there really isnt any info that has been gleaned)

my eyes are on dylan pickem, and the admiral and i think i shall FOS:MoS
from left to right is where my suspisions lie, i shall clarify and defend myself at a later date bit of a time crunch for now

How would claiming to be the doc or town help the town at all? Oh now it is a bad idea to lynch someone. What happen to give my life for the town? This everyone has forgetton Tromboner, his eyes are on who everyone is watching. (Dylan and Pick) And Admiral, wait, I thought you were convinced he was town?

Post 142:

so for serious my FOS on MoS was kinda a jibe not really all that serious and yes that whole post was oozing OMGUS. ( i guess it would be OMGIS but w/e)
about me pushing for a quick lynch, i dont really think it was all that ironic... well ofcourse i would say that but to explain you need to look at the circumstances that i said that under, what was there 2 votes on the guy i was pushing? definatly not -2 lynch thats forsure and to my defence again i shall post so that the speculation can end that i AM a vannila townie 'QFT'.

but returning to the FOS on MoS i am going to readdress the situation from a new angle, and

Unvote Vote:Mastermind of Sin

now that my folks is because of his actual push for a lynch and as Adel has said its really not a good idea to lynch this early.

and for future reference i wouldnt have claimed doc/cop at -2 anyway im active enough that i likely could have caught it at -1 (and -1 prevents a mafia from counter claiming if because a counter claim requires a vote on the person and if hes mafia and counterclaims/lynchs me my role would be uncovered and it would be a easy kill next day; yes i would sacrifice myself for the town.)

which that paragraph above is why i think MoS is mafia because ive never heard of a townie asking for role on day1 in anything but a -1 lynch position.

ooo that came out good very happy with that post indeed.

Agrees with Adel, a lynch this early is bad…weren’t they both for lynch the lurkers early on? Newbie mafia adjusting strategy for the town.

Adel does put him at –1 in post 148

Post 164, 166, 169. No real defense, fingers MoS and Adel as leading the town.

All in the same page, J-man looses the MoS, Admiral, and Adel vote. So there must be a defense I missed.

J-man gets lucky here, because now the VI decides to post and that bandwagon gets going.

Now the town as a whole is focusing on the VI and MoS and Adel are having discussion about Pick. J-man lays low until post 224, when he adds to the Pick and Dylan bandwagons. He does not add anything to the conversation, just that he is keeping an eye on them.

i REALLY REALLY want to vote pickem but instead i will

FO

Major

S:pickem

you can't just jump on a forming bandwagon (clearly jumping on as it forms since you posted twice after Dylan but before your vote) and it clear that you had read up to that point atleast because you responded to MoS... your definatly pouring out scummy vibes over here.

and not to ignore the dylan fiasco :S wth are you on... your not this inactive in other games... so why this one he definatly lurking why? idk im pretty sure ive got my scum pinned down but this is making me rethink everything. so yea Dylan

IGMEOY

J-man continues trying to get something started on pick at 230 and 235.

J-man lays low for a time.

J-man reemerges to attack Dylan (post 269). Again he is just jumping in to vote or comments on those that appear to be the hot topic. He adds little. This is quite scummy, but the town is too distracted to notice.

I enter the fray post. 292

J-man doesn’t add anything in his next posts 306, 341.

Post 357:

id like to respond to that and will in time but i had an accident at work and i hurt my eye, can't really do the reading neccisary to find the posts i need to amke a valid point i should be fine in a day or two but don't expect any big posts from me for the next couple days.

but as a basic answer to the question i will say this, you are on the top of my scummy list, that i have spoke about as of yet, i wouldn't say your the most scummiest in town but id like to keep the rest to myself until i can make a better case agianst them.

J-man votes for MoS, although there are scummier people here. Again adds NOTHING.

J-man goes with the majority and votes Dylan (363)

Post 407

oh i missed alot of posts since i started writing :S so i want to say this, if we can have him replaced good but otherwise im still up for a lynch, townie or not hes hurting the game more then hes helping

J-man has all but left the game, I think he has cracked…the “replace me or Dylan thing makes so since”. I think J-man is looking for a reason to quit the game so it doesn’t look scummy for his pals. Everyone else here just asked to be replaced. You need the town to see a reason.

423: J-man wants to be replaced.

432: Adel begins her active campaign toward me.

440: Crub replaces J-man and IMMEDIATELY jumps on my bandwagon.

447:

Why I put it together, Crub, maybe you can share why you feel, Kate is scum…

The only reason I think Kate is scum is because I think you are scum, and I think there is a connection between Kate and You. I'm basing this on, as I said before how Kate reacted to Tromboners, No Lynch and how you attacked her for 2 pages and then gave up your attack because kate appealed to your "poetic side"

Man my post sounds rushed reading 18 pages took a lot out of me

I think everything in that post was rushed...had to make sure you got on the band wagon vote now versus the end huh?

Personally I don't think you can tell much from a person's position in a bandwagon the whole thing seems WIFOM to me. Having said that I'm not trying to get in early, I'm trying to get in on the right target.

Either lies or misreads…NabNab appeals to my poetic side, not Kate (post 355)…so is NabNab scum, not Kate? You just need a reason to be on the wagon..any wagon.


At any rate, from the beginning Crub has joined bandwagon after bandwagon. He has added nothing to the conversation…I think he is opportunistic, scummy, and demonstrates he does not care who he votes…

After the reread…I think I have discovered who is pals are as well….that post is coming in 5 minutes..

[curiouskarmadog]

I think I might owe Kate an apology. After rereading this thread, I do not think you are partners with J-man. At first I thought Adel (he or she?)might be partners with J-man, then she put him at –1. I find her play very scummy too in the reread. Now I got a feeling that either J-man or Adel is scum, but not together….or if they are together, it was a great plan for Adel to put him at –1, to throw off suspicion.

Post 74

A general question for the rest of you: where do you stand on the "lynch the lurkers" tactic? I think that on Day 1 the player with the least posted activity (content consisting of insightful posts, original opinions, FoSs and votes,

not

word count) should always have a wagon until a very convincing case can be built for one player.

In general, I think it is better to wait until

two

convincing cases can be built. The debate between the proponents of each case could be very illuminating.

It is all about generating enough information to make an informed decision.

Anyway, I'll suggest unorthodox tactics throughout the game. Some people think Mafia is a game about social conformity. "The nail that sticks up get hammered down." I'm an iconoclast and I just do not operate that way. So, fair warning.

Stating upfront why she might act strange or different. Because she has a different way of doing things…ok, that’s fine. Is pro “lynch the lurkers” (which is an anti-town scheme)…Lurkers should always be prodded then replaced. However, she does mention, she would like to see two cases before voting.

Post 83: Explains why scum will lurk.
Post 84: J-Man agrees and adds, that it doesn’t matter if the player is lurking or inactive. Nothing here about innocence and guilt. (adel never corrects J-man saying he misinterpreted what she had said.)

Post 94:

Isn't this pretty much the scenario I outlined? One player speks up with an opinion, and so quickly the masses surround him. One poorly worded post by J-man and we could have an easy mis-lynch with no good leads for day 2. How is that pro-town.

Big-ups for J-man for a. finding a decent reason to cast a vote (no lynch vote) and b. supporting it with a second (lurking).

Now that another case has popped up, Adel does not want to hear it. Defends j-man. How is pressuring someone who is scummy, anti-town, Adel?

Post 105:

While I don't like the posts by J-man so far, I'm going to wait for a little more evidence to base an opinion on.

Voting for lurkers is often a mafia strategy, as they know that they only have to post enough to not be classified lurkers.
It also means that the person killed doesn't provide the town with much information, as he probably didn't get on enough to accuse people etc.

So what is your prescribed course of action? Target those who chase lurkers? Ignore lurkers as if they aren't in the game?

In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.

ThAdmiral: could you clarify your post, or do you stand by your words as they currently exist?

Adel mentions she doesn’t like J-man’s posts, but attacks Admiral for pointing out that lynch the lurkers is a mafia strategy. Adel wants to have all players commenting before lynching anyone. Instead of having two convincing cases, she now wants to hear from everybody before lynching. Newbie mafia changing their strategy for a town manipulating lynch, now that J-man is receiving heat.

Post 107:

Especially since J-man was the biggest promoter of a pro-town tactic that would quickly identify dylan41985 as potential scum. If dylan was scum planning on lurking into day 2 and beyond, a bandwagon on J-man would provide his best cover... so when J-man identifies him as a lurker is would seem OMGUSy.

Huh. I just sold myself on that theory.

unvote:molestargazer

vote:dylan41985

for lurking and casting a suspect vote.

J-man was the biggest promoter of pro-town tactics at this point? WHAT?

Post 115: Attacks Kate for Attacking her for defending J-man, why does adel attack everyone that points a finger at J-man?

Post 129:

Dude, J-man, you aren't doing yourself any favors. Saying that you aren't a werewolf, then saying that you felt the temptation to fakeclaim, and then claiming vanilla townie? I'm starting to feel the temptation to vote for you now. It isn't so much what you say as it is the way you say it, that makes you look scummy. You need to put more words up in your own defense.

Why do you have a FoS on MOS? OMGUS? Again, it does look that way.

I do not understand why at this point, it seems you are helping J-man by giving him advice, and attack those who point fingers at him. What stops you here from voting for J-man?

Post 131

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

I take this as trying to get the town to rethink J-man. Why? He IS acting quite scummy. You can fall back on that, I want to hear from other players lie, but WHY aren’t you pressuring the MOD to prod them?

Adel does puts J-man at –1 in post 148

This is where my Adel/J-man team hits a wall. I am new to the game, so I would like others to comment on this. Seems like a dangerous distancing move to put a mafia that close. 2 hours later, she did check back in to see if she needed to unvote. I guess she was checking for a j-man defense.

At any rate, after MoS and Admiral unvote, Adel unvotes (post 179). And states that she thinks MoS and Admiral are town. Pro pressure on Pick, which is MoS’s baby.

Whoa…now this is interesting. What if MoS, Adel, and, J-man were scum together?
Look at the sequence of events.

Adel puts J-man at –1 at post 148
MoS says Adel is town (because of her vote on J-man) in post 161
J-man’s “defense” post 164 (should be noted that in this post he fingers MoS and Adel)
MoS unvotes J-man “because he is not scum do not lynch him” post 170
MoS convinces Admiral to unvote J-man post 174.
Admiral does post 178
Adel unvotes post 179 and vouches for Admiral and MoS.

Then that’s when the Dylan bandwagon picks up…

God what a brilliant pairing? MoS and Adel banding together to distance themselves from J-man. J-man distances himself from MoS and Adel…at the same time no one is lynched…I think this was mainly missed because the VI decided to post.

So the town on a whole goes after the VI and Adel and MoS focus on Pick (posts 204 –208) Adel does mentioned she is not on a Pick wagon yet.

Post 222, J-man adds to the Pick and Dylan bandwagons.

Adel FoS pick in 228.

Both Adel and MoS distance themselves from J-man without voting for him in post 239-240. Adel finally votes for Pick in 244.

Post 255, adel defends the MoS attack on Pick to Hungry Joe.

Finally NabNab calls Mos on his attack on Pick in post 264,

And in true VI fashion the VI says something late and irrelevant, which makes everyone forget NabNab’s post.

Adel jumps on the VI (weaker player) and places her vote for Dylan in post 268. J-man reemerges to attack Dylan (post 269). Adel continues to attack Dylan on 279, 281.

I enter the fray post. 292

Post 326:

...I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be able to post. Don't vote me out while I'm gone! haha

You are so asking for it right now.

This game isn't making a lot of sense to me, we seem to be letting dylan off the hook and I feel ok with that..

How does MoS have three votes? NabakovNabakov was right to point out his absence, but those votes predate that.

Starting a wagon on Kate doesn't appeal to me after J-man and dylan41985, I think it could just be another wagon on a weaker player. If accept the appearance of incompetence as a defense for two players, I may as well accept it for a third.


Numenorean7 and curiouskarmadog seem pretty similar, good onservations and strong posting. I was having trouble telling their posts apart, until I read:

But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

This is the only line that stands out to me. I didn't believe that for a second. It is a horrible reason for thinking that someone isn't scummy. Care to explain?

Hungry Joe: care to vote for someone?

ThAdmiral: who do you think is the scummiest replacement? They are all appearing quite protown, are you as skeptical as I am? Who do you think we should be pressuring, since dylan is going to be offline?

This post makes little sense. You think Dylan is scum, but letting him off the hook is ok? Questions, why MoS has 3 votes. Then attacks the replacements. What about J-man? Didn’t he get off the hook?

Post 333: MoS defends J-man, and says Adel is protown again in post 334.

Adel votes for me in 349, “to stir the pot” no no, I think you are preparing the wagon, since then Dylan and Pick bandwagons did not work for you.

Post 357:

id like to respond to that and will in time but i had an accident at work and i hurt my eye, can't really do the reading neccisary to find the posts i need to amke a valid point i should be fine in a day or two but don't expect any big posts from me for the next couple days.

but as a basic answer to the question i will say this, you are on the top of my scummy list, that i have spoke about as of yet, i wouldn't say your the most scummiest in town but id like to keep the rest to myself until i can make a better case agianst them.

I think he is distancing himself from MoS, but at the same time, saying that there are scummier people here.
Post 360:

Ask if anything is unclear, or if you want more clarification, or basically have any questions feel free to ask and I'll be happy to answer them.

Who is scummier in your book: curiouskarmadog or dylan?

Ignoring the scummy post my J-man, she tried to gauge where the town is feeling is scummier, to know where to help push.

Post 399:

If dylan is a townie who gets lynched today, I can see the possibility of scum warning against his lynch to look good, and I can see scum voting for him but with words of caution, and I can see scum pushing for his lynch. A lot of the posts on this page aren't adding a whole lot to the conversation.

Questions I would like to see everyone answer:

1. Should we lynch the town idiot?

2. Who else could be scum with the idiot if he is scum?

3. Who would be scum if he is not scum?

How is one even an option? The town idiot is still town. Hanging someone you think is town, is scummy. Why help the mafia’s odds?

Post 402

What information do we gain from lynching dylan today? We have nothing to go on from his lynch, so we just revert to everyone else we were attacking today. He is most likely not scum, and his lynch will not accomplish anything. I'd rather just request that he be replaced, because he obviously is not playing the game, nor does he have any wish to play. Even if we can't replace him, though, we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually.

QFT

J-man is still a candidate, but not much of one. It is interesting the pickemgenius just used similar warning against a dylan lynch that he did against a J-man lynch, which made MOS so suspicious of him in the first place. My vote remains on curiouskarmadog.

Again saying J-man is not much of a candidate, and pushing MoS’s theory for Pick. For the past 150 posts, J-man has been all but gone, but Adel does not apply her Lynch the lurker attitude here…why?

Post 414

J-man, you do realize that you have barely been more helpful than Dylan this game, right? Also, I maintain that pickem is scum. J-man and Dylan are not likely to be scum, and lynching them won't help us that much. We'd get some information from the J-man lynch, but at the cost of an obvious protown. It is quite clear that his "scumtells" come from his inexperience, not a malicious, clever plan to kill the town.

Wow, now MoS says J-man is protown…Maybe J-man is part of YOUR clever plan? So again, MoS vouches for J-man.

Post 432, Adel goes breaks my posts down. But she doesn’t prove anything, the only thing you do prove is that I am trying to get conversation started, I do not leave any stone unturned, and I don’t want to lynch the easy target (the VI). I agree I think my posts toward Kate were wrong. But you go as far and LIE.

“365 defends his bad logic regarding the innocence of replacements as being innocent”

I said

yeah I did...just my personal theory and experience. Granted I am new, but I would put good money on that most replacements (i.e. higher than normal game percentages) are townie. I know, this is bad logic. But until I see something that proves me wrong, I will stick to it.

I said I thought there was a higher than normal %…not all replacements are innocent. Why are you putting words in my mouth I didn’t say? I think lying is a HUGE scum tell.

Post 438

Yes, I believe that ckd could very well be scum. The only people I would not be willing to lynch right now are myself, Adel, Dylen, and Crub (aka J-man)

Speaks for itself.

Post 440:

Hi All In for J-Man.

unvote

First of all apart from J-Man's frustrations with dylan and the bad way he went about his claim I can't see why I'm suspected.

Let me break down my thoughts. I'm just going to say it how I see it.

After the first third of the thread I was pretty much convinced that Tromboner(CKD) and Kate were scum buddies together.
Post 39 is the 2nd No Lynch vote
Post 40 kate agrees theres no info but doesn't bat an eyelid at someone voting 2 for no lynch
Post 45 kate gives her buddy some good advice, that he should probably unvote no lynch.
I know this is a long time ago (15 pages) but I still don't think we should discount it.

When CKD subs in he does a bit of suspicion hopping and then comes out with this beauty

Numenorean7, enjoyed reading your brief analysis (even though it does target me). I hope it is not some grand mafia trick to divert our eyes from you. But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia.

I find that real subtle ... He then follows this up with a number of attack's on Kate which I think is a ploy for him to distance himself from her.

As for everyone else here is my gut feel :
NabakovNabakov : Pro-Town
Molestargazer : Undecided
Kate : Scum
Crub : Vanilla Townie (CKD I don't think that's the fish you were after)
HungryJoe : Undecided
dylan41985 : Seriously wtf? Have you given up? Probably pro town but could be anything
Adel : Pro-Town
Numenorean7 : Pro-Town
curiouskarmadog : Scum
Mastermind of Sin : Pro-Town
pickemgenius : Undecided
ThAdmiral : Undecided

vote:curiouskarmadog

Of course, MoS and Adel Pro-town.

Post 454: MoS now jumps on with his buddies.

Post 466: MoS unvotes me, tries for pickem again, I do not think he wants to be attached to the bandwagon that is me.

….MoS is probably the smartest of the 3 and is the most experienced. He realizes in the reread there are many connections and similarities between he, Adel, and Crub. He does not want to be any part of the bandwagon that lynched me. Thus why I started posting the votes. I do not think he likes seeing Adel’s vote, followed by Crub’s, followed by his own. Not to mention, how will he target those who lynched an innocent person, if his vote helped lynch the townie?? I think MoS would love it if Pick voted for me right now…that would fit is plan perfectly. Thus the vote for Pick, to put pressure on Pick to so that Pick, will try to get the pressure off of Pick..i.e. Pick placing a vote on me. However, Pick only FoSed me…your plan did not work did it?

MoS..I DARE YOU, vote for me again…

[curiouskarmadog]

After post 107 I screwed up the quote…that is NOT an unvote vote for molestargazer

I saw the –1 and wanted to get the post in before the lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am fine with my lynch now…and thank you dylan, you truly are the VI.

I got to do what so many people didn’t…get my last words in before the lynch. I feel Adel, Crub, and MoS are your mafia. I am sorry again Kate for the pressure. Once I am gone, I hope everyone goes back and checks out my posts. I think the mafia is playing a good game, but even if you lynch me now, the town has got you Day 2.

I am going to

unvote…Crub

your day is coming, but I need to hit the craftiest of your team.

Vote MoS….

Go Town..(laughing) I shall remember you fondly!

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess you did make your case CKD, so I can't complain all that much, but I can refute the points that I see as false.

Firstly, we are still on D1, it's been a long D1, but it's still D1. To have identified all three scum and the way they have interacted by this point is almost impossible. The reason that MoS and Adel get pro-town reads from each other and are inclined to trust each other's judgement is because they have both played fairly pro-town. I think they're both pro-town. Their reasoning has usually been fairly solid and they make cases rather than just follow bandwagons.

J-Man/Crub is a bit of an enigma because of the way he posted, and I will reserve judgement on him until I see more of Crub (btw Crub, saying you have made no contribution other than voting is a big no-no). However, attempting to link him and MoS as scumbuddies is ridiculous because I can't imagine any mafioso stupid enough to outright defend his partner as innocent. If J-Man is ever investigated or killed and comes up guilty, MoS is going to have a lot to answer for. I think the only explanation that takes into account the fact that MoS is an experienced player is that he found some townie tell on J-Man soild enough to inspire an unvote.

I admire your dedication to making your case, but it seems heavily restricted by tunnel vision. I don't find your arguments convincing at all, but they don't seem scummy either. I think they deserve more discussion before the hammer is dropped.

I do not feel that Adel's posts have been pro-town at all....I mean, how do you feel about "lynch the lurkers" NabNab? ..What about this chain of events:

Adel puts J-man at –1 at post 148
MoS says Adel is town (because of her vote on J-man) in post 161
J-man’s “defense” post 164 (should be noted that in this post he fingers MoS and Adel)
MoS unvotes J-man “because he is not scum do not lynch him” post 170
MoS convinces Admiral to unvote J-man post 174.
Admiral does post 178
Adel unvotes post 179 and vouches for Admiral and MoS.

How can MoS think Adel is town voting for J-man, then 9 posts later proclaim j-man is town (does that mean Adel is no longer protown?) Then Adel unvotes, and vouches for MoS…that isn’t scummy? At the VERY LEAST, it shows that MoS is leading Adel this way and that. Am I am not sure how you can say they are not following bandwagons? Adel asks which the town thinks is scummier. Couple votes go to Dylan and Adel follows. MoS votes for me, why is 454? From your post, you feel that MoS is experienced…well, how would you expect MoS to play (assuming he is mafia)?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm still worried about a power role getting outed.

@ CKD: That was seriously good stuff. I didn't like how you purposefully left out j-man's most important post (i.e. his "defence") as I think it did give off a strong newbie-town vibe, but overall excellent stuff. You really made me question a lot of what's happened in the game so far.

well, I was pushed for time (also didnt have much time to proof read). As I was pulling the quotes I noted that I was at -1 (thanks, VI) and I would have been pissed if I spent 2 hours reread and quoting to not be able to get it in. I did however, provide the post # so we could go back and read it.

[curiouskarmadog]

One thing I wanted to mention:

theadmiral in response to your response to me i have 1 thing to say, its not my job to convince you to not vote me its your job to kill a mafia as well as mine since im am quite convinced that your just a confused townsperson.

Its “your” job to kill mafia as well as mine. How about “its our job to kill mafia” Almost sounds like you are on opposite teams. He is “quite convinced” that Admiral is town. Almost sounds like adamant, which Num has pointed out, no one can be adamant at this point.

The first part of this makes no sense to me: how is your suggested wording different from what J-man said? In context, J-man's wording almost makes more sense than yours.
But mostly I'm interested in the second part of the post: wasn't it you who was being adamant a little while ago? Perhaps you're admitting that adamant was a bad choice of words, but this is a strange way to do it. Accusing someone else of being adamant just after you've been accused of that same thing?

I will explain again, Basically I thought it was strange for J-man to say.."it is your job to catch mafia" then as an add on he adds, "as it is mine"...I feel that if he was town he might have said "it is our job"...because isnt j-man suppose to be town? The latter of the quote was a jab at you, Num. I realize I was being picky when it came to speech...a little like you were. I found it odd that you jumped down my throat when I used the word "adamant" (saying that it was a scum tell) but let "quite convinced" slide.

[curiouskarmadog]

Crub/J-man

I'm getting a VI vibe from J-man, and Crub seems a strong pro-town player.

please show me how Crub is a strong protown player? Since he has been here he has accused me and Kate of being scum buddies, which was wrong because he "apparently" misread a quote...if I was lynched and came up innocent, would J-man be as "strong pro-town"?

[curiouskarmadog]

@MoS: Fine, I'll do the song and dance here. We don't

know

the size of the scum group. I just used "all three" because those were the same assumptions CKD was working under to formulate his theory. Has anybody ever actually caught scum by pulling that one out?

Saying that Mike is scum with Vinny isn't at all the same thing as saying that there are two and only two scum. ckd's theory never left out the possibility of there being a forth- I was watching for it. Your statement that there are 3 scum seems to infer that somehow you

know

that there are exactly three scum.

It is definitely a scumtell.

I named two people before (kate and crub) because that is what I thought at the time. I didnt name anyone else because I wasnt sure and didnt see a link...I named three this time, for the same reason...you are stretching from ANYTHING arent you Adel?

[curiouskarmadog]

What I think is really interesting, is that once I posted my theory, Adel changed up her play style. Questioning MoS’s theory on Pick (495)….Adel wanted it laid out fully, but she didn’t need it laid out fully when she voted for Pick before when MoS pointed it out. Then she questions him again in a later post (post 499)

Again, why has no one else picked up on this? You might think I am scummy Adel, but at least I am consistent.

Saying that Mike is scum with Vinny isn't at all the same thing as saying that there are two and only two scum. ckd's theory never left out the possibility of there being a forth- I was watching for it. Your statement that there are 3 scum seems to infer that somehow you

know

that there are exactly three scum.

It is definitely a scumtell.

no...you are saying that because I say I think there is a group of 3 scum and dont mention a 4th, that I know something about the size of the mafia. Again you are putting words in my mouth. I never said there was exactly 3 scum...why do you constantly PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!?

Lying is a scumtell

[curiouskarmadog]

Here are a couple of thoughts that have stuck out at me for the past couple of pages.

I should address MoS’s “defense”. I actually didn’t know it was a defense as I was reading but I think MoS mentions that it was a defense later. The only things I can say is that he commented on everything out there, didn’t really address everything, but did comment on everything.

Adel on the other hand took a different route to my accusations. In post 492, Adel hints that she "can slaughter ckd's (views) with cold and crystalline logic, but that would create an even longer and more impenetratable wall of words." But she doesn’t. Because now she is worried about noise ratio. She wasn’t worried about noise ratio when she was pushing for my lynch…but now I post a lengthy theory of who I think is scum, it is too much. She accusing me of “manipulating evidence to fit your(my) conclusion”. This makes me mad. I present the facts with direct quotes to support my theory. As oppose to Adel who constantly puts words in my mouth and lies to support hers.

Adel please address why you feel it is ok to lie to the town about:

“365 defends his bad logic regarding the innocence of replacements as being innocent”

I never said that…I can show you 3-4 places where I stated my theory, why must you turn my words around to help your case against me?

Then to help your case against pick, you lied about him putting the FoS about J-man.

YET THIS TOWN THINKS YOU ARE PROTOWN?!

I know that I can build a case based solely upon that wall of words that would draw an extra vote to hammer ckd, but I will not.

Sweet Christ I wish you would…if you think I am scum, than you should do it. Or is it you don’t want that kind of heat once you have hung an innocent?

Also CKD, you're "adamant" that I'm scum, I don't know what I can do to convince you otherwise because it seems as if your mind is made up. Can I just ask you

again

. If I'm lynched and turn out to be town, who do you think is scum? Like you I'm happy to be lynched even though I'm a townie as long as we can get enough information from my lynch to lynch a scum tomorrow. What I don't want is to be lynched and then you to go "oh shii ... he was town there go's my theory".

this is a good question. Honestly I don’t know. I agree with some that I could be suffering from tunnel vision. Who do I think would be guilty if you come up innocent? I will cross that road when I have to. I havent a clue.

Moving on, I do not feel like lynching Dylan (even though the little ass put me at –1) at this point would give us any information.

I am not buying the pickem case yet. MoS has made good points about Pick, but I feel that I have made equally as good point about J-man/crub. I would like to see Pick come out with some sort of Scum list/protown list in his view. It may not be your play style, but it

does

seem like you sideline FoS a lot.

HungryJoe…I personally do not see it. Joe had a chance to hammer me without little guilt being placed on him (with Adel pushing it so hard). It would have been easy for him to sit back on a “town made a good point” defense. I think more likely he just dislikes Dylan.

Here (in my opinion) would be the best lynches of the day, which is different from who I feel are the scummiest here.

Crub, Pick, Adel, and myself. (honorable mention goes to that ass hat VI, ewwww, that got under my skin, but absolutely nothing [except his guilt] can be learned from his hanging at this point.) While typing that list, I realize that these are all frequent posters, which does make since why lurking or quick pop in comments/votes are such a mafia tactic is Day 1 (I am still learning this game). Proving the innocence or guilt of any of those 4, however, provides the town with a ton of information.

I left MoS off that list. Lynching him day one (which is not very likely) will prove much if he is guilty, but if he

does

turn up innocent, the only thing that proves is that my vibes are faulty and maybe I should stick to playing online Hearts.

So,

Unvote

I still think MoS, Adel, And Crub are scummy, but I need to except I might have tunnel vision...and listen to what the town has to say.

[curiouskarmadog]

MOD prod Molestargazer..

much has happened since his last post, with a deadline coming..everyone should get their views in.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ah, screw it. Let's see where this goes.

unvote, vote: Numenorean

Ah, screw it. Let's see where this goes.

unvote, vote: ThAdmiral

At what point will you two stop doing things together? Just because it is so obvious, does not mean it is not scummy.

Vote: Adel

[curiouskarmadog]

Prod sent to molestargazer, HungryJoe and dylan41985.

A deadline is on, so I'm prodding a little faster than I would usually do.

I look forward to their posts!!

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote: ckd
vote: MasterMind of Sin

why?

[curiouskarmadog]

for your information, will be going on a well deserved vacation between the 13th and 22nd. Most likely will have no access between those dates (unless I find a wireless coffee shop or what not), and if I do the posts will most likely be on the light content side.

[curiouskarmadog]

You take fairly standard interactions between two or three players and turn them into a well oiled scum machine. Your argument is essentially a tautology: "They're scummy because they're constantly scum distancing" You try to prove the first clause by bringing up the second, but you can't prove the second without the first. I will not further break down the logic since that seems to be a challenge you have issued to Adel.

but you can see the difference in using actual quotes to form a theory versus out and out using false statements to prove your point, right?

[curiouskarmadog]

I will not further break down the logic since that seems to be a challenge you have issued to Adel.

I really don't have the patience for it, and this group of players seem to think a little more clearly (with the obvious exceptions) than other games I've been in. If his argument was doing harm I would break it down. Since I decided that his long post was basically townie (in spite of his argument) no harm means no foul.

now who is being dismissive?

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus, funny 2 pages, even adel's chart made me laugh...

Looking forward to Adel's Defense.

Didn’t really see how some of my posts pickem thought were “Antitown” were indeed antitown, but he did note that they were from his perspective. I guess the obvious observation is that the “wag o finger” group tend to be less frequent posters, except Crub as of late.

It would be easy for me to say Num and Adel could be together (since they started my bandwagon together). I will go back and try to read their interaction with one another without having my current tunnel vision. As Num said in reference to my adel/crub/mos post, everything is conjecture.

Is this a “A”. “T”, or “N” post?

[curiouskarmadog]

This game moves very fast... and I'm lazy. Let's go again.

At what point will you two stop doing things together? Just because it is so obvious, does not mean it is not scummy.

Vote: Adel

This post strikes me as slightly odd. Adel's post could even just be a joke to copy - chances are she would have voted like that anyway.

If you have read any of my other posts (in reference to Adel/MoS/Crub) you would understand why I pointed this out again…

He's right Kate. To my knowledge, Dylan has never joined a bandbagon, and you're a filthy liar for saying so.

This post seems a little on the harsh side - filthy liar or just an innocent mistake that isn't really doing much harm anyway?

I am pretty sure she was joking. Again, if you have read the thread I think you might have picked up on that.

So, is that all we shall hear from you for another 4 pages? How about commenting on some of the current topics….maybe even who you think is scum and town?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD: I'm a dude thankyouverymuch.

sorry, it was the cute bunny/ambulance thingie…I am sure you are quite manly.

[curiouskarmadog]

I haven't been entirely honest in my thoughts about Adel, because I wanted to see her actions more thoroughly. The connection I saw between her and you is what made me "change" my mind.

whoa what? ugh, this bothers me on so many levels....just dont have time right now to comment...

[curiouskarmadog]

I am getting to the point that I can not take Adel’s mistruths anymore.

MoS's case against pickem was weak... .

If you thought his case against Pickem was weak, why did you agree with him then vote for Pickem? Please do not avoid this question.

You are the most experienced player, if you lead a bandwagon against scum revealing yourself to be very-protown you can almost bet that you will receive a NK unless you get a doc protect.

this almost sounded like a threat. Looks like his case is against you not NUm7..is he leading us to scum? Looks to me as if you just admitted it.

so as I said in my vote I'm willing to see where 2 votes on MoS go's. It's not like I've put him at L-1.

2 votes? To lazy you actually look up the facts? I believe it is 3 votes?


Not that any of this matters...I am willingly to bet that Adel and/or Crub wont keep their votes on MoS for too long.

Adel, I am waiting patiently for your "cold and crystalline logic". I have yet to see it once this game.

[curiouskarmadog]

if someone has not reach 7 at deadline, does whoever have the majority get lynched or is it a no lynch? IF there is a tie?

Vote Count (#19)

dylan41985: 4 (ThAdmiral, HungryJoe, Numenorean7, Kate)
Mastermind of Sin: 3 (dylan41985, Adel, Crub)
Numenorean7: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Adel: 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 3 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov, molestargazer)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch before the deadline.

Deadline on 11 July, 14:00 GMT (2 days and 23 hours from this post).

[curiouskarmadog]

got to quit drinking Per...MoS's vote is on Adel!

Vote Count (#19)

dylan41985: 4 (ThAdmiral, HungryJoe, Numenorean7, Kate)
Mastermind of Sin: 3 (dylan41985, Adel, Crub)
Numenorean7: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Adel: 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: 3 (pickemgenius, NabakovNabakov, molestargazer)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch before the deadline.

Deadline on 11 July, 14:00 GMT (2 days and 23 hours from this post).

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm gonna Unvote:Dylan, I don't think he'd be a good lynch for today, .

did you mean to bold this?

[curiouskarmadog]

Is anyone not completely confused by this game? I get the feeling no matter who we lynch and no matter if they're town or scum I'll have not much of an idea who is scum for tomorrow.

Can we get an updated votecount please?

speak for yourself

[curiouskarmadog]

Is anyone not completely confused by this game? I get the feeling no matter who we lynch and no matter if they're town or scum I'll have not much of an idea who is scum for tomorrow.

Can we get an updated votecount please?

speak for yourself

Well I suppose the mafia like yourself know exactly whats going on.

Where is your vote again? Oh right, following Adel.

[curiouskarmadog]

Is anyone not completely confused by this game? I get the feeling no matter who we lynch and no matter if they're town or scum I'll have not much of an idea who is scum for tomorrow.

Can we get an updated votecount please?

speak for yourself

Well I suppose the mafia like yourself know exactly whats going on.

Where is your vote again? Oh right, following Adel.

It's on MoS ... you know the person you think is the leader of the scum group

actually I said the smartest not the leader (again thanks mafia for putting words in my mouth)..hey it was a theory, I could be wrong, but no one is hanging yet are they?

[curiouskarmadog]

Hell yes! Take that you stupid deadline. This thread is rolling right on to page 30 of D1. Per, can we go deadlineless for as long as possible? I want to set a record.

Will finish re-read tonight, promise.

what is the record?

and again, going on vacation next week.

[curiouskarmadog]

I said this for two reasons:

1.)I was getting increasingly tired of Adel putting words in my mouth.. She stated I attacked Num, when indeed I had not.

2.)I also think it is important to express who you think is pro-town. So to tackle two birds with one stone, I wanted to explain to Adel that not only did I not attack Num, I felt he was pro-town. Which would then bode the question..”if you feel Num is protwon and he is going after you” what does that tell us? Well, that is why I continued on with the statement…

Does that shed any light? I am saddened that on the reread that this was the only thing you felt was worth mentioning. Surely out of 20+ pages you have found something better. Good luck with your reread.

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess my only concern is that we have stopped posting content....AND I assume that it will start getting harder to find replacements if we need them....

I can see Per now...Need a replacement for HungryJoe..quick read, 30 pages..

[curiouskarmadog]

NabNab, I cant say that I completely agree with you that Adel is town. I have demonstrated several times how she spreads mistruths and puts words in my mouth. I am not sure why a townie would do that. Not to mention, she has yet to defend herself with “cold logic” for my tastes….

I have had my own suspicions about MoS. Now I have read your post (and reread the thread for accuracy) trying to put away my “conspiracy theories” and I agree MoS does come across scummy (sans “theories”). So you have sold me….Mainly on the drastic flip-flopping and recent attitude.

Vote: MoS

My vote will put him at –1. I am actually more interested at seeing what will happen next…..

..because I still have my theories.

[curiouskarmadog]

thats

vote: Mos

[curiouskarmadog]

Alright, heading to vacation (tomorrow morning) and will not be back until the 22nd. I will have limited access at best. At any rate..

Unvote MoS

I wanted to see what happened before I left putting MoS at –1, wasn’t so much watching his response (he is not here anyway) but everyone else…nothing exciting happened. Rather not be away and have my vote out of my control in this thread. But again..

FoS Adel, Crub, and MoS

, but I think you guys already knew this.

[curiouskarmadog]

All of the most recent votes (nabakov, numenoran and ckd) seem to have been done by people wanting to get on a bandwagon, all providing barely enough of a reason to do so. Numenorean and ckd in particular, both basically stating: "I agree".

getting ready to head out, but want to get this out there....Admiral is has pretty much stayed under my radar, but this really bugged the hell out of me and it implies something that is untrue..

I was one of the first people to a.) place a vote on MoS and b.) state my case against MoS...please get your facts straight.

[curiouskarmadog]

back, sort of...will need a couple days to get unpack and what not...also need to catch up

[curiouskarmadog]

man it takes a vacation to put a game in perspective....I hate to say this, but I think I am going to have to give this whole thread a reread...christ.

[curiouskarmadog]

I reread the thread…and I just do not know what to say. White sitting on the beach, I gave each of the games (Im in) some thought and have come to some conclusions on all games, with the exceptions of this one. So I thought, well, let me give this game a reread, which as time presses on and replacements come in and out it becomes harder and harder to do.

For everyone I feel is scummy, I can see how someone else would think they are protown or a VI…For everyone I feel is protown, I can see how someone else would feel they are scummy.

In review, I feel like the Adel, Crub, MoS connection is most likely not probable. But I still believe that two of our scum, comes from these 3.

Well let me address somethings that occurred while I was away.

getting ready to head out, but want to get this out there....Admiral is has pretty much stayed under my radar, but this really bugged the hell out of me and it implies something that is untrue..

I was one of the first people to a.) place a vote on MoS and b.) state my case against MoS...please get your facts straight.

Fact

is your vote was on adel, nabakov said his bit and you put your vote on mos.

Fact: you stated I wanted to jump on a bandwagon…

All of the most recent votes (nabakov, numenoran and ckd) seem to have been done by people wanting to get on a bandwagon, all providing barely enough of a reason to do so. Numenorean and ckd in particular, both basically stating: "I agree"..

Fact: I stated my opinion about MoS (and Adel and Crub) well before any “bandwagon” occurred. I stated that I felt they were scummy and have numerous posts explaining why I felt this way. Since I felt they were scum, I assume you would understand that I would not mind the lynching of the three. I had my vote on MoS well before any “bandwagon” and only changed it to Adel when she constantly put words in my mouth to push her agenda. But seeing MoS maneuver, I decided I wanted him gone first. I think you are trying to falsely imply that I bandwagoned, which makes me wonder why. Or maybe you just do not know what bandwagoning means. Here I will help..according to wiki bandwagoning means..

“Several Votes on the same player to try to Lynch them or force them to roleclaim; especially used if the votes come in quick succession and without independent reasons.”

Please reread post 742. I stated that I had my own theories, but agreed that MoS is flip-floppy…I put him at –1 because I thought that Adel (mainly) or Crub would back out of the vote before anyone could hammer. Unfornately NabNab removed his vote (with good reason) before Adel and Crub could.

So question for you, why are you pushing false information?

Also, my list of top three scum is up, but due to a newly learned experience, I am not going add to who I think the top town are…I disocvered that mafia too read those lists and will NK those who are a frequent on those lists..Also interesting that you requested the top town list….You are officially on my radar…

FoS Admiral

. Also I do remember the fact you did not hammer me..which can go either way. Scum, not wanting to have the light of hammering on a townie on them..or Townie, not wanting a quick lynch without more proof...I wonder if town swayed my way again, would he try to get the vote in before the final two..who knows.

---------------
Moving on,

I think Dylan needs to be replaced…isnt there some rule that if a player gets prodded a certain amount of times they will be replaced
----

Welcome Tar.

----

This pissed me off…

I choose not to pick apart ckd's argument because I was afraid that it would get him lynched and I didn't want to see him get lynched. I've gotten quite a few players lynched on Day 1 who turned out to be scum(assume you mean town), so I am more cautious now. .

So am I now town in your book? I think you do not have a defense, and I am tired of your mistruths…

Vote Adel

----

Read MoS’s “defense”…was going to comment on his 823 post, but NabNab covered what I would address in the 825 post. Still keeping an eye on him, and if votes do swell on him again…I most likely WILL change my vote to him.

----

I am constantly amazed by Crub’s over zealous votes on wagons to be…once group suspicion goes one way…so does Crub’s vote…Crub why is that?

[curiouskarmadog]

You can read my posts if you want to see why I placed my vote on someone.

Actually I'm thinking maybe a MoS/ckd scum pairing is possible. I find it suspicious that ckd who is still claiming that out of me/Adel/MoS two are scum wouldn't take the opportunity to get on a bandwagon on MoS until the last minute, and then when he did vote MoS he votes because "I thought that Adel (mainly) or Crub would back out of the vote before anyone could hammer."

Your entire reasoning on a Me/Adel/MoS scum group is completely flawed, as was pointed out by numerous people, yet you still try and push it.

please reread my post thoroughly before you post in the future.

[curiouskarmadog]

Jesus, Crub… If you read my post thoroughly you would not have posted what you did…unless you are trying to push false info…

Your entire reasoning on a Me/Adel/MoS scum group is completely flawed, as was pointed out by numerous people, yet you still try and push it.

I said..

In review, I feel like the Adel, Crub, MoS connection is most likely not probable.

Does that sound like I am pushing the Adel, Crub, MoS scum group? What I said was I feel like there is 2 from this group that are most likely scum.

Actually I'm thinking maybe a MoS/ckd scum pairing is possible. I find it suspicious that ckd who is still claiming that out of me/Adel/MoS two are scum wouldn't take the opportunity to get on a bandwagon on MoS until the last minute, and then when he did vote MoS he votes because "I thought that Adel (mainly) or Crub would back out of the vote before anyone could hammer."

what is strange about that? I thought you guys were tied together, I wanted to see who would jump out first as to not to hang their scum buddy…but NabNab jumped out first…I have also stated, that if the votes swell against MoS again, I might switch my vote again to him…

see if you had read my post, I wouldn’t have to be spoon feeding you all the information out of it, correcting your..misunderstanding?

I have read the thread and your “explanations”…I was asking if it was a coincidence that everytime the town suspicions change, so does your vote….why is that?

[curiouskarmadog]

an another thing, Crub, if you think that MoS and myself are scum..then tell me again where your vote is?

[curiouskarmadog]

if the votes swell against MoS again, I might switch my vote again to him

Why would more votes on MoS cause you to move your vote to him? Looking for a bandwagon to join?

given my posts for the last 10 pages...do you really think I am looking for a bandwagon Num? Seriously? Or do I feel like MoS/Crub/Adel are scummy, mentioned it numerous times, and I have no problem lynching one of the 3?

[curiouskarmadog]

First, please try to keep it friendly, I'm here to have fun.
Second, you say 2 out of 3 people you previously pointed out are scum without adding any new information. This to me is still pushing your case. If you don't think that pushing 2 of 3 people is still pushing a case on 3 people, I'm sorry but I have to disagree.
Third, if you thought there was a good case against MoS, I find it suspicious that you would be on a counter-wagon to MoS's wagon. Jumping on MoS for the reason that you wanted to see who would unvote is unnecessary, and in my opinion flimsy.

an another thing, Crub, if you think that MoS and myself are scum..then tell me again where your vote is?

Well if you want me to vote for you .... ok

unvote, vote ckd

silly Crub..

Crub your logic (or is it your misunderstandings) frustrates the hell out of me. How is thinking that 2 out of 3 people are probably scum in anyway pushing that all 3 are scum? I STATED THE 3 TOGETHER ARE IMPROBABLE, which part of that statement do you not understand? The case people argued was that the 3 together was a flawed, not that any of the ones individually are flawed...we are still in day one and I feel that the most information can be discovered by lynching any of those three (mainly MoS and Adel). I dont care if you find that fact that I openly say I will switch my vote to MoS if I need too. I am keeping the town in the know, versus just doing it and explaining later (somewhat like you).

and what new information did you provide with the Admiral vote? With my new vote?

Hypocrite...

However, I do appreciate that you finally put your vote where your apparent suspicions are. Hey maybe if you are lucky, the wagon will get started on me again so you will not have to keep switching your vote to get a quick lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

fake edit:I dont care if you find that fact that I openly say I will switch my vote to MoS if I need to, suspicious .

[curiouskarmadog]

Crub, I want you to know that you are solely responsible for the aneurysm that I am probably going to have bantering with you. “Excessive defensiveness”? I thought I was answering your questions. Crub, from here on out, I am not going to acknowledge you until you read the thread…or at least, read your own posts…

I dont care if you find that fact that I openly say I will switch my vote to MoS if I need to, suspicious

That was Num7 not me. Having said that you might not care but that doesn't change the fact that it is suspicious.

you said…

Third, if you thought there was a good case against MoS, I find it suspicious that you would be on a counter-wagon to MoS's wagon.

I have provided my reasons why I think each of you are individually scummy. I was beginning to add your constant pushing of false information for another reason your scummy, but I now understand that it is something different. If you can not even recall what you said three posts ago (or go back and read it before you post) then I cant imagine you being able to remember the reasons I stated that the three of you are scummy (individually)….so when I get a moment I will post them AGAIN for you Crub. Until then, I am done with this conversation with you. I feel like I am trying to explain colors to a blind person…just not going to happen. We are going around in circles, and I doubt this is helping the town.

[curiouskarmadog]

@ CKD: You can't deny, though, that your vote on MoS looked opportunistic. And just because you have mentioned in the past that you think MoS, Adel and crub are a scumgroup (which you have recently said you now doubt and have changed that to 2 out of 3), this does not give you free reign, at least in my eyes, to just jump on a bandwagon that forms around any of those three.

I do not deny it. Call me opportunistic, if I see a chance to lynch someone who I think is scum, I will take said opportunity. Lets say people buy your NabNab suspicions and a swell of votes develop there, most likely I will not move my vote (all things remaining constant). Will you still call me opportunistic if we lynch MoS and he is scum? I hope so, for as a town, we should all take opportunities to lynch scum. You almost make the word “opportunistic” sound bad.

[curiouskarmadog]

It's a long shot but I thought I'd bring it up: distancing scum battle?

Yes, it would be the perfect scumbattle. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I don't think either of them are making any sense.

what exacly am I not making any sense about? I realized the arguement was "signifying nothing" thus my comment "not helping the town" and ending it. Num and Adimiral both have been looking for anything to say I look scummy. You think I am scum, start another wagon...place your vote on me, there in only a couple ways you will see if I am scum, and one way has me at the end of a lynch. Distancing? Jesus man..Crub and I have been at each other since he jumped in for J-man. I dont like his posts, I dont like his logic, and I dont like his playstyle.

In this thread (35 pages later) I think agreeing with each other is the new distancing.

Personally, I think this is all a distraction from the true scum, who I think has been all types of quiet the past couple of pages...looks as if it has paid off.

[curiouskarmadog]

gone for the weekend, might be able to post later today, if needed..

[curiouskarmadog]

it'd be nice if anyone else was even here...

I'm still here, but I don't really know what to say.

Per is back on the 29th. When he returns, perhaps it would be time for a deadline?

I am sort of at a loss here too....Adel removing her vote is interesting, as she put herself in the lead.

[curiouskarmadog]

Num, any repsonse to the fact that Adel does not like you and dylan as voting partners?

[curiouskarmadog]

(sorry for the triple post)

but she didnt have a problem with it (you and dylan) when I was at -1

[curiouskarmadog]

<snip>

Kate - Enigma. I've seen this particular playstyle before, and I still can't get a read on it. I'd rather ignore Kate for now - I should be able to get a much better read on her once Newb 399 is over.

<snip>

Newb 399 just ended. As it turns out, Kate was scum in that game.

Now that I know that Kate's current playstyle is an anti-town playstyle, I think that an

Unvote, Vote: Kate

is in order.

since that game has ended, what did she do there that indicates she is scum here?

[curiouskarmadog]

Why don't you look up the other game I was cop in?

Wait a minute, are you claiming cop?

jesus christ....I hope she didnt just claim cop in Day 1 on accident..

I think this too might be a slip up....

[curiouskarmadog]

rolefishing? when was I rolefishing?

Vote:Tar

for coming the whole stupid thing of why he thinks I'm scum, and for accusing me of rolefishing.

I dont think he thinks you are rolefishing...I think he thinks Num77 is.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod

can we get a vote count, please..

game is starting to slow down, or is it just me?

still contemplating Adel's removal of a vote...still think she is scummy...where there any other reasons Adel, that you removed your vote, other than not liking Dylan and Num as voting partners, does that mean you feel like they are scum now? You dont think MoS is scummy?

looks like Num’s turn on the wagon..or is it Kate's?

so confused at this point, and dread another reread..next reread I am taking extensive notes...

Tar, you never answered my question from post 900.

[curiouskarmadog]

were=where

[curiouskarmadog]

guess it will start getting interesting (again) now...

been awhile since we have heard from Dylan and pick..

when does NabNab get back?

[curiouskarmadog]

Jesus when I deadline pops up, Adel and Crub go back to voting with each other. Adel, your post is the biggest load of crap I think I have read in the last 30 pages. If this doesn’t scream scum, then I am not sure what will. This was full of crap logic, contradictions, and just plan manure.

I am not even sure where to start.

vote: Curiouskarmedog

I'll only unvote him if he claims. There isn't a wagon on him, and I don't expect him to become a realistic candidate for lynch. I am not asking him to claim- there is no danger of him getting lynched.

this really pisses me off on many different levels.

1- I have never seen ANYONE threaten to not remove a vote unless someone claims and then say I am not asking him to claim i nthe same post.

2- Is this rolefishing? Tell me Adel, how would knowing my role right now help the town AT ALL? How would knowing my role help mafia? Oh yeah, for a f-ing NK. You are scum and I completely certain now. Why else would you want to know my role? I remember a.

Post 651

unvote: ThAdmiral vote:Master of Sin

for power role hunting.

It is ok for you to fish, but not MoS? Isnt that why he got this vote?

3- No wagon huh? Well, doing a quick check, I am tied for the lead?

I also took a hard look at my track record of voting for scum on day 1 (never have) and i took into consideration how much time i have for Mafia right now. I think it would be

anti-town

of me to put a lot of thought into my vote. I'd rather vote at the last minute, and base my vote on intuition alone, but I'm probably better off just doing it now. .

SO what you are saying is that you cant seem to track down scum, that it would be anti-town for you to place your vote with thought. But it IS NOT anti-town to just put your vote anywhere. Why do you think I am scum? Havent you given that some thought? Wait, no that would be anti-town.

I would vote no-lynch if that wasn't so anti-town in the grander scheme of things. .

Why do you have to vote at all if you are so unsure in your ability to find scum Day 1? I think you hope that I will be lynched, then you can fall back on this piece of crap as a defense. No one will buy this Adel, jesus, I hope the town is smarter than that. This is your attempt to place a vote without having any guilt..I am calling you out...

I have no business leading a wagon this late in a day 1.

being that your vote has official put me (tied) in the lead, you are leading the wagon. One day I hope you will post something with that crystalline logic that you have eluded too. I think I even remember a post that you said you didn’t want to address my accusations before (pages back)because you were certain I was town, and you didn’t want to get me lynched.

I think you just said that to get me off your back, because I was hitting close to home. You are a liar, hypocrite, and a horrid manipulator...the town will not buy it. I think everyone who has not reviewed Adel plays should.

[curiouskarmadog]

Welcome back NabNab

Personally, I see no reason why you should give up. Deadline is no time for players to just cash in their chips and hope for the best. I see at least two flaws in your logic:

I would like to add (again) that her "giving up" vote is putting me in the lead to be hung. I do not feel like she is giving up AT ALL...all things remaining constant, if I dont claim I will hang...I think it is an emotional "poor me" ploy..comments?

[curiouskarmadog]

ADEL!

I would like you here your comments on my accusations for post 947.

Mainly:

I am not even sure where to start.

vote: Curiouskarmedog

I'll only unvote him if he claims. There isn't a wagon on him, and I don't expect him to become a realistic candidate for lynch. I am not asking him to claim- there is no danger of him getting lynched.

this really pisses me off on many different levels.

1- I have never seen ANYONE threaten to not remove a vote unless someone claims and then say I am not asking him to claim i nthe same post.

2- Is this rolefishing? Tell me Adel, how would knowing my role right now help the town AT ALL? How would knowing my role help mafia? Oh yeah, for a f-ing NK. You are scum and I completely certain now. Why else would you want to know my role? I remember a.

Post 651

unvote: ThAdmiral vote:Master of Sin

for power role hunting.

It is ok for you to fish, but not MoS? Isnt that why he got this vote?

Let me get this straight, you know that I am currently leading to be hung. And the only way you will remove your vote is if I claim...you DO understand that you are asking me to claim Day 1, right? HOW DOES THIS HELP THE TOWN? And why is it ok for you to rolefish but not MoS?

[curiouskarmadog]

ADEL!

I would like you here your comments on my accusations for post 947.

Mainly:

I am not even sure where to start.

vote: Curiouskarmedog

I'll only unvote him if he claims. There isn't a wagon on him, and I don't expect him to become a realistic candidate for lynch. I am not asking him to claim- there is no danger of him getting lynched.

this really pisses me off on many different levels.

1- I have never seen ANYONE threaten to not remove a vote unless someone claims and then say I am not asking him to claim i nthe same post.

2- Is this rolefishing? Tell me Adel, how would knowing my role right now help the town AT ALL? How would knowing my role help mafia? Oh yeah, for a f-ing NK. You are scum and I completely certain now. Why else would you want to know my role? I remember a.

Post 651

unvote: ThAdmiral vote:Master of Sin

for power role hunting.

It is ok for you to fish, but not MoS? Isnt that why he got this vote?

Let me get this straight, you know that I am currently leading to be hung. And the only way you will remove your vote is if I claim...you DO understand that you are asking me to claim Day 1, right? HOW DOES THIS HELP THE TOWN? And why is it ok for you to rolefish but not MoS?

dude, you have two votes just like MoS and me. I don't trust you motivation in crying about this.

"crying"? WHY WONT YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? WHY ARE YOU ROLEFISHING...this is my third attempt to get you to answer this.

[curiouskarmadog]

Fine. ckd is scum, y'all should lynch him. I want him hung because I don't trust his playstyle and the way he consistently overstates what his case is. I read his post and I can picture an aggo 15 year old male chugging mt dew and staring at the screen in a dark room as he types away. .

Speaking of insulting, that was not needed at all and it was very uncalled for. That was a personal attack. I guess you could retort with I called you a hypocrite and a liar. But these two “names” are true. You vote MoS for rolefishing when you are doing the same thing = hypocrite…You have constantly stated in this game thing I have not said or REALLY stretch the truth = liar. What have I overstated? Describing me how you did was a new low for this thread ...it just was not called for.

I expect that he plays in a similar way when he is town, but his vote jumps around a hell of a lot more because he isn't as concearned about appearing inconsistent. I think this was best displayed when he announced that had figured out that MoS, Crub and I were scum together. He was convinced that he had us right. What I attributed to a mere set of flawed arguments at the time, I now consider very scummy.

again hypocrite, Adel, if we were to compare out voting patterns, who between the two of us would have the highest vote count and changes in their vote?


Adel, instead of throwing insults answer my questions

1. Why is it ok for you to rolefish but not MoS?
2. When you say my vote “jump around a hell of a lot” have you indeed looked at your voting pattern?
3. Why do you feel it is ok to insult versus, just answering my questions?

The last time you didnt answer my questions, you stated you thought I was town and you didnt want me to get lynched...what excuse could you have this time?

Town, why do you think she REFUSES to address the rolefishing comment?

Adel, is scum, don’t buy the “I am giving up ploy”? Why do we have to wait until Day 2 for her to post some sort of content to help find scum? Why is she so certain that she wont be lynched or night killed? At this point, anyone of us could be lynched, why does she feel like she wont?

[curiouskarmadog]

dude, you have two votes just like MoS and me. I don't trust you motivation in crying about this.

also untrue..MoS has one vote...AND if everything remains constant, if I have 2 votes "just like" you...I hang, not you

[curiouskarmadog]

sorry for the 4 posts..

also I think it is time to

Prod Pick

[curiouskarmadog]

i wasn't rolefishing, I wasn't asking to to claim. Either you are a twit or you ar scum, I say you are scum. Do you honestly believe that you will hang with two votes?

keep calling me names...

so what you what us to believe is that you are not rolefishing when you say.

"vote: Curiouskarmedog I'll only unvote him if he claims. "

currently I will hang if all things are constant..so it is a possibilty

[curiouskarmadog]

I meant that my vote is static, it isn't going anywhere... but there is a possibility that you end up claiming for some reason, and if you did I would unvote you. That is the only scenario where i would unvote you, so I felt it was worth mentioning.

Vanilla townie.

now what?

[curiouskarmadog]

I thought I got there first. I didn't bother responding because I am used to ignoring the more bombastic things that he says.

I don't understand how he would think he is in real danger, or why he would feel that it is necessary to claim right now. ckd: I'm not trying to lynch you.

then remove your vote, or is that bullshit too?

[curiouskarmadog]

I thought I got there first. I didn't bother responding because I am used to ignoring the more bombastic things that he says.

I don't understand how he would think he is in real danger, or why he would feel that it is necessary to claim right now. ckd: I'm not trying to lynch you.

Your vote is pissing me off because right now, I am in the lead to be lynched because you claimed you have given up...I am pissed off because you have ignored my requests for you to explain your rolefishing, because it is "bombastic"? I think this again is a lie. I am claiming to prove a point, that you lie...if you are not trying to lynch me..unvote..if you think you can not lynch scum Day 1, unvote until Day 2.

you dont see me riding Crub for his vote? I think he is scummy and I may note like him, his vote, his opinion, his silly cow quote, or his playstyle, but he has an opinion and he is sticking by his vote(until your vote goes somewhere else that is)....he is not hiding behind a "I am not good at finding scum Day 1 so I will just leave my vote here" defense...you understand why this does not make sense right? Also, as far as I can tell he has done absolutely no rolefishing...you on the other hand answer my (and other's) requests to explain your hypocritical posts with insults and more crap logic. You asked me to claim..
Be truthful for once..you didnt answer because I have caught you acting scummy and you have no clue how to deal with it.

[curiouskarmadog]

and another thing, everyone seems to be awful quiet now...I am sure everyone has some sort of opinion on this arguement...

she asked me to claim or she will will not remove the vote...I claimed, the vote is still there

she denies she was rolefishing Day 1, when she used it as an excuse to vote for MoS..

she has some crap excuse as to why it took 3 requests to actual comment it on it.

I mean, am I crazy here? Why is this not driving anyone else nuts?

[curiouskarmadog]

If the town agrees I am happy to be lynched, because I am Vanilla town so the town will not lose so much, and the scum will not gain so much. Maybe if I am lynched and when I'm confirmed town, the rest of you townies might actually listen to what I have to say.

Let me say this ... you may not agree with my playstyle this game ... this is not how I normally play. I am very frustrated because I feel like the scum are controlling the day and the rest of the town are running around like chickens with no heads. I feel that I am helpless to bring anyones attention, to this.

There is a good case against ckd. Go back and look at the case against him earlier in the thread. Nothing was addressed by ckd. The two wall of words posts that got ckd off the hook was a far fetched attack on me, Adel, and MoS and how we were scum partners. I think while those two posts seemed townlike, I still suspect him for the same reasons that were pointed out during that bandwagon.

I've been coming around on the idea of ckd as scum. I may not pursue him today but I will say this: if adel gets lynched and is town I will go after him. I don't care if that is setting up "chain-lynches", I'm going to do it anyway.

and what happens day 2 when I am lynched and I come up town? Who should the town go after? You? What happens if we lynch Adel Day 1 and she comes up mafia? Will you still go after me for being scum because I was I distancing? What happens if I get lynched Day 1? When I am town, will you go after Crub and his graphics? Adel and he attacks on me? I guess you are in the clear both ways huh? This IS a blip on a radar (hate to agree with Adel about something)...but it is a blip

[curiouskarmadog]

This game has been super frustrating for me, but I guess that is what the mafia wants. For the record, I feel like another extension will not help the town only confuse it more. That being said, I have a feeling that I will be the last bandwagon for Day 1…maybe an extension will help, but I think a ton of information will be developed in the next 3 days that should help the town.

This post will not be appreciated until Day 2 (if I am hung), today however, I am certain someone will spin it scummy..so be it.

The wagon to come:

Crub. I think everyone knows what Crub thinks…Crub, how will that graphic change when you find out I was town? I am starting to think that Crub is probably not scum (ugh). I can not see any scum pushing so hard to lynch a townie, unless he was just newbie scum…Crub, that graphic is going to haunt you Day 2 when/if I am hung.

Adel. Even though her vote is not on me now, she is adamant that I am scum, and I have a feeling that vote will return before the Day is out. I feel like she exaggerates, she has lied, and she is a hypocrite…she still has not acknowledged the fact she was role fishing…

I do not like Admiral’s setting up the chain hangings…if you think I am scummy, then vote for me (got Crub to vote for me this way), or are you just looking for a reason not to look so guilty (like waiting someone else’s analysis or suggestion?) It is almost like you know that Adel is town...which makes me question Adel now. Maybe you too do not want to look like a hypocrite placing a vote on a townie…it should be interesting watching Admiral’s plays in the next three day.

Num77, I am looking forward to his analysis. Has anyone ever done an "analysis" on anyone to discovered (or showed the town) that they think someone is actually town in Day 1? Well I am new so maybe it has happened. I think Num’s analysis will positively “prove” I am scum. I could be wrong…also someone else we should watch..

VI, added dylan because I think that vote will come to for no other reason than the cool kids are doing it.

Yeah, I know I am posting what I think will happen again…I do this when I think I am going to hang and I want to help the town with my last breath.

I am not sure about MoS anymore…think he is playing a good game no matter what side he is on…can not read him.

In reference to Kate, again not sure, one slip up demonstrates she is scum, the other, a power role…I do not think she is the play for day 1 though….Really what information can be gathered, she has little interaction with everyone…and there is an off chance she is a cop

I would like to keep my vote on Adel, but Admiral’s comment has made me think twice.

Unvote
Vote: Admiral

I do think Adel is scummy, AND I do think much information can be discovered by her lynch. But now that we are looking at a deadline, I do not like how you are already setting up a Day 2 lynch. Why didn’t you save that comment for Day 2, and simply vote me Day 1…answer?: Because, a vote on me WOULD help lynch a townie, thus “chain lynching” yourself (another reason why you didn’t hammer me pages ago). I think you know I am a townie…I think you just proved that.

[curiouskarmadog]

actually I got to two votes before Adel and Admiral (way back when)...I dont think it will matter in the end though..

I hope you learn something with my lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

I cant tell you guys enough how town I am...

[curiouskarmadog]

Nab, what you really dont understand is I know how this will end for me Day 1. I saw the deadline (which I am for) and I saw how the quiet ones got quieter (and will only pop in to vote I imagine). I know I am going to be lynch...and its cool, I have no hard feelings...I am just trying to help before I go, for if the town wins..I still win...

AGAIN, I dont expect this will help you guys until Day 2.

Nab, your thoughts on Admiral's comment (chain lynching)? When I come up town, who is to blame for the lynch? Also, am I the best lynch versus the easiest? I dont disagree with my lynch providing information...but will it provide the most information?

[curiouskarmadog]

actually I got to two votes before Adel and Admiral (way back when)...I dont think it will matter in the end though..

I think that Adel would be lynched if the deadline happened right now, because the 2 votes now on her were placed before the two votes on ThAdmiral or the two votes on you. Is that right?

One would have to look back at my last wagon, before that wagon, did Adel or Admiral have any votes on them...I know I joined this pretty early in the thread...so I will go back in check, but I really think it would be a waste of time..

Nab, I am town, but there is really only one way for you to find out...lynch me, I think a lot of info will be found, and maybe you will examine Admiral and Adel a little more closely when you see where I was coming from (a town perspective). I am not sure what I have done that is so scummy compared to many others, but if you cant seem to understand that I am town, then lynch on. I will continue to read the game with interest. My only real defense is an offense. Think about your vote, we are here to lynch scum, we have 41 pages on thread…am I really the best vote?…out of everybody here, will my lynch provide the most information (town or scum)?. If I am scum, does it point out anyone else? If I am town? Also, watch everyone else now….where are people’s votes versus their suspicion?

MoS, I have stated several times why I feel like Adel is scum, but it seems that the town as a whole, ignores it. Maybe if I were like the majority in this game and kept my posts to a minimum I wouldnt have so much suspicion thrust upon me. I have put out there who is currently on my radar (mostly Adel and Admiral). I expect to be hung (or if not hung maybe NK, but I doubt it with the amount of suspicion on me Day 1) and I want to get as much information out there possible Day 1 so the town Day 2 will have something to go on…just trying to help.

[curiouskarmadog]

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch before the deadline. If nothing changes, Adel will be lynched.

I just read this, so I guess you are right Num

[curiouskarmadog]

guess it would behoove me to change my vote to Adel first (putting her at 3 before me)...but Admiral's comment really bothers me, so I will keep it here until he explains it more.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, if you agree that Adel is scum, vote her. I don't want to have a 2-majority lynch. That would be really lame. At least if Adel is the vote leader at deadline, it shows that no one else had a stronger suspect that they agreed upon.

what are your thoughts Admiral's chain-lynching post?

[curiouskarmadog]

Fair enough. My definition of playing well is not appearing scummy (and one way to not appear scummy is make good cases on actual scum). I realize that there's grey area in between, but good players look pro-town and bad players don't. I see no reason why a true scumhunter can't look pro-town too.

However, since that rule applies regardles of role, it's not all that useful. But using it can negate the "I'm townie, I swear" defense at least slightly.

[/theory]

Everything can seem scummy in context. Since we are talking about Day 1, how do you know that you are building a case against actual scum, you don’t really know that. For example, I feel that you are pro-town, however, your vote (and case) are on me. Now, I have told you I am town and you really wont know if I am scum or not till I hang or the game ends. However when you find out I am town (either way), will you say that you are not playing well because your current cast is against a townie? Isnt that a scum-tell in your book?

What defense could I use Day 1? I am going after who I feel is scum. If it turns out that Adel or Admiral are scum, does that make me town? NO, isn’t it a mafia ploy to eat one of their own. The playing well theory is lacking. In my view, you should be looking for is slip ups, voting pattern, lurking/pop in vote behavior on Day 1. Again I ask you Nab, what have I done that is scummy?

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD: Of course I'm not playing well if you're actually a townie, but for the sake of moving this game foward, I'm willing to take that chance. I think you're scummy because you

have

vote hopped many a time and often on to a bandwagon. In the mid-game, your vote jumped from Adel to Crub to MoS back to Adel and now to Admiral. You are overdefensive whenever you're the least bit threatened, and the only reason we let you down from L-1 last time is because you churned out a huge pile of crap that you've been using to justify your vote hopping ever since.

@MoS: My bad on not emphasizing the "grey area" bit. There are certainly good players who don't always seem pro-town, but can we at least agree they would be even better if they did?

@ThAdmiral: The primary reason I find you scummy is because when I look through your posts, just about every single one is pushing the suspicion on another player. Just in recent times.

In other news: I completely agree with the recent heat on adel, especially the comment that she is hypocritical for accusing MoS of rolefishing, and then asking CKD to claim.
If you've made a decision to throw your vote away (an idea I think is flawed because your vote may count in spite of your decision anyway, plus your increasing the odds for the scum), can I just say that I think it is a very bad idea. Don't just give up - you'll never get a scum day 1 doing that.

CKD: you have already aroused my suspicions for a number of reasons (mostly minor ones). If adel turned out town that would just be the final nail in your coffin in my book.

I don't like your claiming... it was absolutely 100% uneccessary imo.

Also iirc she never ASKED you to claim...

It sits uneasy with me because it looks like you're flustered, or afraid of something.

Seconded.

Also it sounds like you are defending ckd, nab-nab.

However, your vote remains safely and uselessly on the VI. (It has been either on Dylan or on nobody for a month and a half) To me, it seems like a clear case of a scum who wants a mislynch, but doesn't want to be on the mislynch wagon.

Another thing that got my attention both times I read the thread was that you were the first one to ask about the length of the days. IIRC, you even requested a deadline.


Of course, none of this is damning evidence, and a lot of it is just vibes. I don't think you're the best lynch for today, but as I've said before, it's out of my hands.

Nab, I was vote hoping compared to who? I think if you go back in the thread, you will see that my vote has not changed NEARLY as much as Crub's and Adel's . I could painstakingly go back show how they moved their votes more frequently if you would like (will it make a difference though? I think your mind is set Day 1)…I assume you want to be as informed as possible while casting your vote.

The only "wagon" you can say I jumped on was MoS's, and I had clearly stated I thought he was scummy at the time. I have moved my votes as my suspicions have changed...I will not keep my vote on someone just to not look scummy.

I should also mention that in my "pile of crap" I showed how Adel followed MoS leading on most everything, and after MoS beginning attacking Adel and Adel at MoS...Adel immeidately changed up her playstyle in this game.

As for my current vote on Admiral, I think he is scummy, for reasons already stated...placing his votes two 2..how was that a bandwagon?

[curiouskarmadog]

I still have faith in CKD's actions. I think his posts are sincere. I don't have a good enough read on ThAdmiral to call an alignment for him.

no offense MoS, but your support is sort of freaking me out...why do I have a feeling I am going to be lynched, and then MoS can say he supported me (shivers)..is it because he sees something in my posts that the majority doesnt? or does he know I am town?

NabNab, I do not think Admiral's vote on dylan is safe. All he has to do is switch it to Adel or I and he will be safe (I think). Maybe he plans to do it last minute, maybe not...

Admiral, why arent you voting one of us, it could save you? Do you really think dylan is scummier than Adel or I? I have to agree with Adel, one of our lycnhes will provide the most information...what information will a dylan vote (lynch) provide the town? Or....could it be that you know both of us is town and you do not want to have yourself tied to a town lynch? What happens if I am lynched and come up town, where would you suspicions go next? Adel? Crub? NabNab? just curious.

We have a deadline, a speedy answer would help everyone!

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh, I hate proofreading..sorry for all of my grammatical errors.

[curiouskarmadog]

Well I am interested in his comments....I have a feeling that his vote will change last minute...I think it will be telling who changes their votes last minute or actually votes, not giving anyone time to defend themselves.

Right now, Admiral is either a town who is commited to his vote and opinions on dylan at any cost.

Or he is scum, not wanting to have his vote involved in a townie lynch...or scum having faith his scum partners to change their vote last minute to not only save him, but not give anyone time to retort..

next 12 hours should be information packed.

[curiouskarmadog]

Almost like I predicted this would happen…

Well I am interested in his comments....I have a feeling that his vote will change last minute...I think it will be telling who changes their votes last minute or actually votes, not giving anyone time to defend themselves.

Right now, Admiral is either a town who is commited to his vote and opinions on dylan at any cost.

Or he is scum, not wanting to have his vote involved in a townie lynch...

or scum having faith his scum partners to change their vote last minute to not only save him

, but not give anyone time to retort..

next 12 hours should be information packed.

I left my dylan vote out there in case anyone else decided to pick it up and go with it. Since no one did it looks as though I am going to have to put a vote on either ckd or adel. I wont be able to get on again today so this is final.

vote: ckd

It's a toss up between the two but as I have said I think he is scummier.

Please note 5 minutes later..

I would be much more comfortable following NabNab's vote. He has made some telling arguments against CKD.

In conclusion:

Unvote
Vote: CKD

Take credit for your own vote Num, don’t pass the blame on NabNab.

So after reading each posts in isolation, CKD is scummier then Adel.

Vote: CKD

also says that Admiral and Num posted while he was typing.

Admiral’s post cleared at an hour before Pick’s…interesting how they both state that posts were made while they were typing, but it doesn’t change anything..
Anyway, I really am not surprised. I knew it was going down this way…The fact that Admiral did not seem worried and MoS’s support…seemed to indicate I was going down.

Also the game that Pick and MoS are referencing to prove that I am scum or town here is interesting considering they BOTH know that due to MOD error, I didn’t know my true role until Night 1….Interesting Pick and MoS get opposite reads on that…

Let me get this post out there before I die and can not say anything. The reason Admiral wasn’t worried, is because he had faith in his scum partners…and it looks like they came through (three votes in a 1 hour and a half time frame). I told you the next 12 hours will be telling. After I am lynched, I think Admiral should go next…also if we have a cop, might be a good idea to investigate Num77…why would he change his vote from Admiral. I also find it funny that the reasons he gave that Adel were scummy, were the reasons I provided. He also states I have not answered questions, I haven’t been given any…anyway, this post is a stretch. As for Pick…wow.

I think that I might have been off on my scum group after all. Maybe MoS/Admiral/Num??..ah, who knows. Admiral would be key to lynch next to see if I was close. Lets see how he responds to chain lynching now.

My guess is that there will be a strong push to lynch Crub (told you that stupid graphic will haunt you) or Adel Day 2

I told you guys my lynch would provide information. I think I got in everything I wanted to say. I hope that my lynch is key bringing down mafia. Town, no hard feelings (except the “pile of crap” comment from Nab, that still smarts)

Good luck Town!! Just wish I could actively help Day 2!

[curiouskarmadog]

Since we are going to referencing it..lets reference it.

So let me get this straight..KNOWING that Day 1 in that thread you KNOW I thought I was one alignment…but because of the MOD error, I was actually another…you think I am mafia here? Considering I have played both Day 1 in that game and this game the same…that says a lot…just wish I could REALLY reference the game, but as it is still on going I can not…lets just hope that game does not metagame.

[curiouskarmadog]

-1

going to try to help the town as much as I can now…funny once I call MoS out, he changes playstyles…at any rate…

going to help the town with my last breath..

Actually, CKD, I've been thinking about that mod error since I mentioned this in thread, and I think I'm inclined to agree with pickem. My entire stance on you was based with me forgetting about that entirely (and not knowing about it for a while), so

Unvote, Vote: CKD

. Adel comes tomorrow.

My guess is that there will be a strong push to lynch Crub (told you that stupid graphic will haunt you) or Adel Day 2

so do you go after Adel if I am scum, or do you go after Adel if I am town..please comment.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm not blaming NabNab: my vote is my own.
I'm sorry about the Adel reasons. I didn't look through the thread a whole lot when summarizing the cases, I just did it from memory.
I changed my vote from ThAdmiral after a lot of thought, because I decided you are more likely to be scum. I still hold that opinion.

When the rubber hits the road, everyone moves to CKD. He's at L-1. Who woulda thought? I wonder if we have some distancing going on here... We'll know in about 1 hour.

no more likely you mafia smelled the blood in the water....

[curiouskarmadog]

or you moved to protect your own

[curiouskarmadog]

lol..jesus christ, pickem lost his mind..

good game town.

[curiouskarmadog]

yeah, good job MoS..even though your ass lynched me day one..no hard feelings..someone had to go.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, I didn't lynch you! I thought you were protown most of D1, but I switched because no one would listen to me. I didn't push that lynch on you, and I was still saying Adel-Num the whole time.

werent you on the lynch?..If I remember right, you and PICK jumped on at the same time..

but I could be wrong..no time to go back and check.

still think you did a decent job.

[curiouskarmadog]

bastards