Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!

[Paradoxombie]

/confirm, now to catch up

[Paradoxombie]

Okay, it's taken about 3 hours, but i'm read up.

I've lost a little of my mind though. Expect input soon.

[Paradoxombie]

unvote

[Paradoxombie]

vote guardian

I'm starting to go totally WIFOM. My reasons for voting Guardian are n different from any of yours'.

[Paradoxombie]

EBWOP: My reasons for voting Guardian are

no

different from any of yours'.

[Paradoxombie]

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

[Paradoxombie]

I think lynching scum helps town a heck of a lot more than lynching town.

I'll keep that in mind.

[Paradoxombie]

Vote: Avinyl

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I feel like he's not coming back, at least not soon enough to make me feel guilty.

IGMEOY: Guardian

[Paradoxombie]

Guardian is flamingly town, it burns my eyes how obvious his townness exudes from him.

Seems like scum, not because it supports someone I suspect(I don't even suspect guardian that much, just more than anyone else), but primarily since i don't see why you wouldn't give your reasoning. Now to not tell your suspected scum why you suspect them is one thing(obviously you don't want to point out their weaknesses so they can fix them), but if you really think Guardian is so very town, why not tell us why?

If you've just read the topic you should be able to see that several of us are suspicious of his activity. How about filling us in? Don't you want to help him and us by preventing us from lynching someone wrongly?

I think it's a very scummy thing to do, to just casually remark that someone is totally innocent in your mind. It seems like something that would only be done to

1. Throw a little doubt our way. Just enough to make a difference but not be totally obvious

or

2. Try to gain someone else's trust(see directly below VVV)

[From Page 1]

Vel is right that my hunch about gorckat is probably off, but one way I try to start out a game is figure out one person I can be pretty sure of trusting - and this game gorckat seems legit.

Forgive me for being skeptical, but that sure looks like a good way to "buy" the other person's trust if you aren't on the town's side...although I presume you generally don't run up to 'em and give this reasoning

[Paradoxombie]

unvote, Vote: Guardian

I was mostly voting Avinyl because I didn't think he was comming back.
(just a reminder)

[Paradoxombie]

Any Reasons?

For voting guardian? Same as I posted before. Plus I think it's important to always keep your vote on someone(normally the person you suspect the most[obviously]).

[Paradoxombie]

Do you have anything new to contribute, on me, or anyone in the game?

no, nothing sigificant.

[Paradoxombie]

well out of respect for PMG, I'll

unvote

But I feel like I have to read through the topic again before I decide my course of action for the rest of the day

[Paradoxombie]

just a suggestion, perhaps we should all list all of our suspicions

At best we'd get some more scum tells or some faulty reasoning, and at worst we may be able to pick someone to compromise on that we all find pretty suspicious, even if they aren't our #1.

Does that sound fair?

[Paradoxombie]

Wow this is getting pretty damn hard to keep track of

All of these arguments sound completely solid, even the ones that contradict each other!

I'll post as soon as anything in particular strikes me

[Paradoxombie]

xombie is still on my radar and I literally just saw this:

For voting guardian? Same as I posted before.

Plus I think it's important to always keep your vote on someone(normally the person you suspect the most

[obviously]).

well out of respect for PMG, I'll unvote

But I feel like I have to read through the topic again before I decide my course of action for the rest of the day

just a suggestion, perhaps we should all list all of our suspicions

At best we'd get some more scum tells or some faulty reasoning, and at worst we may be able to pick someone to compromise on that we all find pretty suspicious, even if they aren't our #1.

Does that sound fair?

Wow this is getting pretty damn hard to keep track of

All of these arguments sound completely solid, even the ones that contradict each other!

I'll post as soon as anything in particular strikes me

So...in 10 days and two posts you haven't felt it important to keep your vote on someone you suspect? That sure makes the vote on Guardian seem worth even less than the last time I scrutinized it...

vote:paradoxombie

I think you're overracting a bit, but the reason I don't feel the urge to vote at the moment since we have a deadline. Without a deadline, I like to keep the game going by keeping my vote in use as much as possible.

[Paradoxombie]

Vote: Pickemgenius

You're being ridiculously obtuse at this point.

Peter explained why he used those arguments. Scum or not, it doesn't prove anything at all that they were flimsy. Instead of just disagreeing with his playstyle, you continue to demean and argue over it, and all you keep saying is how dumb arguments are anti-town, which is just not true.

You are taking Peter's play far too superficialy in my opinion

[Paradoxombie]

Your death won't prove anything unless you're scum.

[Paradoxombie]

Fos

: Deathsauce

[Paradoxombie]

I FOS'd because it'd be easy for a scum to lead a counterwagon on the leader of the previous one that had lynched a townie. All he has to do is wait till a wagon is on someone who isn't one of his mates, and mention how their suspicious of a persons reasons. Then next day after the mislynch you just start up suspicion on the wagon's leader(s). With a little luck you turn one mislynch into two.

*******************************************
Day 2, First official vote count:

mustafa15 (1): CrashTextDummie
DeathSauce (1): gorckat

Not voting: mustafa15, Peter Venkman, Thesp, DeathSauce, TeamQuiggan, Paradoxombie, Occult, Raffles

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

I've prodded Thesp and TeamQuiggan to make sure they're aware day has started. Raffles has indicated that he's camping and won't be able to post until Saturday, so I won't be looking for a replacement so long as he checks in then.

[Paradoxombie]

If you are scum, then you can simply wait till there's a wagon that you know will be a mislynch. You point out how you find the wagon's motivation scummy, and when the lynchee comes up townie you can direct suspicion at the leaders.

It's just speculation, but it certainly isn't any less FOS worthy than deathsauce's speculation

[Paradoxombie]

Why not lead the wagon day 1 and declare scum would never do that beacuse they'd get busted?

Because that is harder, more suspicious and would result in less town deaths obviously.

I find your casual dismissal suspicious.

[Paradoxombie]

@mustafa: well I agree that's a reasonable FOS, and I have no explanation other than I was growing impatient. But I wasn't trying to pressure Avinyl, I wanted to straight out lynch him. I guess that looks even worse, but I have nothing to hide.

[Paradoxombie]

Please be more speciffic Occult, unless you want me to go through all of my posts and point out exactly how every single one isn't scummy.

[Paradoxombie]

contradicted himself on keeping votes on people

I clearly explained that situation.

when I challenged the strength of his case today, says I'm suspicious.

I think you're suspicious because I think my FOS was no weaker or WIFOM than Deathsauce's, and yet you never challenged his logic.

[Paradoxombie]

The only way you explained it was that you felt the deadline made your vote unneccessary, when clearly it is worth more given people can be lynched without a majority and the way ties work out.

I meant my vote is unecessary to keep the game moving. That was the whole point in the first place. I'd leave my vote on someone even if I don't find them that suspicious because at least it keeps the day moving(actually I've been less strict in that rule recently)

But at the end of yesterday, I wasn't sure who to vote and everyone was looking suspicious at times. I didn't want to make an arbitrary vote either because just hoping on a wagon could come back to get me if that wagon became scrutinized later. The fact that my vote was even more powerful gave me an even better reason not to use it, I simply was not sure what to do for a while.

[Paradoxombie]

I thought everyone looked suspicious but I couldn't make a decent enough case against anyone. It's not that I was worried about getting on a bad wagon, I was worried If I got on one and then had no real explanation of why I did, except "uhhhh, they were suspicious"

that wouldn't just look bad, I'm pretty sure I'd get lynched in most scenarios

at least I'd lynch someone else who did that.

Also your posts 52-54 don't even mention Deathsauces FOS they mention the part where he set it up yesterday, but you're only talking about how his activity was all over the place. You pointed out that my FOS was weak speculation that is also wifom, but deathsauce's is equally all those things and you just pass it over. Of course I guess if you weren't thinking about it you might not notice.


You know, now that I look over you gorckat I find your posts 36-49 quite suspicious.
36- first you vote me for pretty decent reasons
41- you totally piggy back on VRK without any reasoning after just voting me for aparently the same thing.
46- you vote pickem for if I understand it, acting like he could be VRKs scumbuddy, when you don't even have proof that VRK is scum. That doesn't make any sense I'm pretty sure. Youre so sure that he's VRKs scumbuddy that he is a more worthy lynch than VRK?! WTF?
48- you confirm your suspicion of pickem, only to go back and vote me

Now you're vote for me are decent/understandable, imo, but then your votes on pickem and VRK are very questionable, and I find that very suspicious considering that they are both confirmed townies now. It doesn't help that you're going after me(another townie)

So that's 3 townies you've gone after, 2 of them for very questionable reasons

*******************************************
Day 2, Third official vote count:


Paradoxombie (2): gorckat, CrashTextDummie
mustafa15 (1): Thesp

Not voting: mustafa15, DeathSauce, TeamQuiggan, Paradoxombie, Occult, Raffles, Peter Venkman

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Paradoxombie]

well what was more scummy about me?

It seems like your whole case against me fits just as well against Pickem

He jumped on the VRK wagon just because he thought it was the only decent one, and at the same time kept changing him mind, and even contradicted himself in a much smaller time period than myself.

Why am I the more scummy one?

[Paradoxombie]

The most interesting play by the scum is the killing of Pickim, he was a huge heat score, and one of the unfortunates on the bandwagon against VKM, I would've assumed that they could've kept him around and beat on him for a day, and knock off another 2 townies, but I digress.

A good point, had pickem lived I definitely would have been very suspicious of him. I was considering it before, I'm inclined to believe now that we have little to gain from examining pickem's NK because it goes too WIFOM every way I can think of.

[Paradoxombie]

The most interesting play by the scum is the killing of Pickim, he was a huge heat score, and one of the unfortunates on the bandwagon against VKM, I would've assumed that they could've kept him around and beat on him for a day, and knock off another 2 townies, but I digress.

A good point, had pickem lived I definitely would have been very suspicious of him. I was considering it before, I'm inclined to believe now that we have little to gain from examining pickem's NK because it goes too WIFOM every way I can think of.

[Paradoxombie]

sorry about that

[Paradoxombie]

Please be more speciffic Occult, unless you want me to go through all of my posts and point out exactly how every single one isn't scummy.

Yes I would appreciate this.

j/k! Burden of proof, man.

[Paradoxombie]

I know, but it seems like alot of work to argue with that many points. I need individual situations like 3 at a time maybe, because I get the feeling you'll argue with some of my answers and I don't want to have to go back and forth in like 20 arguments all at once.

You might as well sort out the ones I've already explained, too. I don't care if you want to cite them as evidence, but I don't feel like having to repeat my reasoning if I already went through it.

It's not like I remember everything that's happened that well, I'm gonna have to go through my plays again and recollect my thoughts at the time.

The easiest thing you could do imo is sort all your examples(with post numbers, plz) into the categories you listed in your first quote.

Then

I might be willing to go through them all at once. It's a more efficient way of presenting your case, anyway.

*******************************************
Day 2, Fourth official vote count:

Paradoxombie (2): gorckat, mustafa15
mustafa15 (1): Thesp
Thesp (1): DeathSauce

Not voting: TeamQuiggan, Paradoxombie, Occult, Raffles, Peter Venkman, CrashTextDummie

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Paradoxombie]

Not sure what else could have been said, but I'm a little surprised xombie had nothing to say to why I found him more scummy...

Hmm, Id be very interested in what your expectations were.

[Paradoxombie]

I don't know what you're talking about since simply by answering this question I am not avoiding your accusations. And I also don't know what you want with gorckat, he made some points and I refuted a couple of them, and I guess my answers were unsatisfactory to him.

[Paradoxombie]

ARE YOU GUYS KIDDING ME?

Occult posted 20 of my 30 posts
and didn't even explain exactly what was scummy about half of them.

And you expect me to prove that I'm NOT scummy? There are no "non-scum" tells!
It's an unfair demand. And it's especially not fair to say that I should put more effort into my defense if occult refuses to put in the minimal effort I need in the accusations to even make a defense.

And I don't know wtf is your problem Gorckat I gave you the only argument I have, THE TRUTH. And you find it unacceptable. I don't know what more you expect from me, but I'm not

trying

to avoid anything.

[Paradoxombie]

If it's a fair, protown request to ask someone to prove how all the posts are not scummy
then It's a fair, protown request to ask someone to prove how all the posts are scummy

and it's still an unfair demand whether you make it because you actually want me to do it or not.

[Paradoxombie]

PZombie, could you explain your voting record please (this time without avoiding the question) Below I put the quotes I found in regards to your voting record.

Sorry, the only recent question I remeber you asking me is why I avoided your suspicions

-Vote Guardian, says he is going a bit WIFOM and his reasons are no different from others (doesn't state any reasons)

-Guardian prods him for reasons and his reasons are: Too vocal for a newbie, Posts too much (so therefor he gets more scum tells), doesn't want to vote a lurker and he reserves thoughts on the subject

Misleading, I straight out said my reasons for not voting a lurker.

What I really said:

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

-Vote Avi (because he's lurking) after his saying he doesn't want to vote a lurker (this is AFTER support for an avi lynch rose)

What I really said:

Vote: Avinyl

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I feel like he's not coming back, at least not soon enough to make me feel guilty.

IGMEOY: Guardian

It was not just because he was lurking, it was because he was effectively AWOL, and I figured we might as well just off someone who's not even playing.

-Vote for guardian (Saying he was voting just because he was a lurker, after saying he wasn't voting a lurker) no reasons, BTW

I already had a whole post dedicated to why I thought Guardian was suspicious. Want to see it?

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

I didnt even change my mind about him, Avinyl just came back. And when I first came in, I said I didn't want to vote a lurker because we'd gain little from that, I never straight out denied it as I voted Avi like your post implies.

-In response to my question of if he had reasons, he says he already layed them out (Which he hasn't) and believes you should always have your vote on a person.

WTF are you talking about, you said it yourself I immediately spelled out my reasons when guardian asked me to. Here's them again just to make it blatantly obvious how wrong you are:

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

Here's mustafa doing the same thing:

I'm thinking it's time for a

vote:Paradoxombie

My reasons have been documented

I guess that's not suspicious, though, because he's on the same wagon as you.

-In response to gaurdian asking if he has any contributions he says (No, no, nothing significant.)

I don't see what this has to do with my voting record. But it sure makes your list look bigger.

-Unvotes PEG (as a new replacement allows him to come in without a vote) But he has already said that he thinks you should always keep a vote on someone.

I said I was gonna read through again in the same post:

well out of respect for PMG, I'll

unvote

But I feel like I have to read through the topic again before I decide my course of action for the rest of the day

-Tells DS that he isn't going to vote now b/c there is a deadline.

I already have explained this. Want to see?

The only way you explained it was that you felt the deadline made your vote unneccessary, when clearly it is worth more given people can be lynched without a majority and the way ties work out.

I meant my vote is unecessary to keep the game moving. That was the whole point in the first place. I'd leave my vote on someone even if I don't find them that suspicious because at least it keeps the day moving(actually I've been less strict in that rule recently)

But at the end of yesterday, I wasn't sure who to vote and everyone was looking suspicious at times. I didn't want to make an arbitrary vote either because just hoping on a wagon could come back to get me if that wagon became scrutinized later. The fact that my vote was even more powerful gave me an even better reason not to use it, I simply was not sure what to do for a while.

Thank you for making me find it and post it though. I really appreciate that.

-Agrees with peter's argument and Votes PEG for not agreeing

What I really said:

Vote: Pickemgenius

You're being ridiculously obtuse at this point.

Peter explained why he used those arguments. Scum or not, it doesn't prove anything at all that they were flimsy. Instead of just disagreeing with his playstyle, you continue to demean and argue over it, and all you keep saying is how dumb arguments are anti-town, which is just not true.

You are taking Peter's play far too superficialy in my opinion

I did NOT vote him for not agreeing. And I did NOT say anywhere that I did

-Foses DS, No reason

I HAD reasons, I just wanted to see what his response would be.

-Needs to be prodded for reasoning again, says that DS is leading an easy wagon against the leader of the previous wagon.

I was planning on posting them pending Deathsauces reply.



Well thank you, Occult, for posting these lovely "quotes" and managing to misrepresent me in the majority of them. Having to post the real posts along with your version of them also made this look terrible and hard to comprehend. It will confuse other players and won't help anyone; thanks a bunch!

and I guess I really am unjustified in not wanting to respond to the even bigger, more misleading, and more confusing version of your arguments.
(^^^sarcasm)

[Paradoxombie]

Just because they aren't playing doesn't mean that they are scum. It would make more sense to lynch someone that is acting scummy, and get someone that isn't playing replaced than just killing them.

I agree. I had little play expirience at the time, and although I can't decide exactly what made me think that was a good idea back then that is different now, I wouldn't consider that vote justified anymore. I guess I would have posted that in the explanation, but it seemed like Occult was mostly attacking me for contradictions and not on the actual logic of the vote.

[Paradoxombie]

I'd like to hear anything new from anybody. I have nothing.

[Paradoxombie]

my god

[Paradoxombie]

Isn't that a lynch?

[Paradoxombie]

Yeah, I checked, but both your's and and Occult's posts look like you guys were unaware, so I started wondering if I was wrong somehow.

[Paradoxombie]

I know I haven't posted in awhile. I'm in three games which all require some reading/re-reading. This one is probably last in line at the moment. I'll give some input as soon as possible.

[Paradoxombie]

present

[Paradoxombie]

Any thoughts?

Yes.

Vote: Gorckat
AoS: somestrangeflea
AoS: Occult

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I think at least 2 of these names are scum.

This was a blatant quicklynch. Sure, I guess you could think it's a coincidence that the last three votes all came down in 1 hour. And I guess you could call it a coincidence that all three posted minimal reasoning with their votes essentially piggybacking. And I guess you could also call it a coincidence that they all just happened to go after me together right up until DS got to -3, with even more minimal reasoning for their change of heart from me to DS. Gorckat straight out admits to literal fence sitting:

As I'd said when I made the vote, it was the first chance to put one of those two (DS and xombie) at 4 votes. If Peter had voted xombie, that would've been find and if the situation was reveresed (me on DS already and Peter making xombie go to three) I'd have gone that way, too.

And I guess it's just another coincidence that both the people he is willing to vote so eagerly and without another single thought are both innocent.

Seriously people, imagine this same kind of bandwagon day 1; What would your response be?

[Paradoxombie]

Is fence sitting so bad when you suspect two people equally? Is it wrong to suspect two people equally?

I have a problem with you deciding who to vote based on someone else's vote. What if the caster was mafia? I can only guess that's not a concern for you.

This wasn't a Day 1 bandwagon.

You're right, maybe such a lynch would be more excusable if there was less evidence to go on. But instead, 4 people made up their minds on 30 pages within 2 hours and all just happened to come to the same conclusion, the wrong one, and all indirectly helped the mafia. Of course, you, gorckat, didn't bother to make up your mind at all, even with the 30 pages.

[Paradoxombie]

Yes peter made up your mind for you. You had two options and instead of examining data you simply went with the first one you could get to 4 votes apparently. I guess it you were so damn sure DS and myself were scum that there couldn't possibly have been mafia on our wagons. Or maybe that's just not a concern for you.

If you were really so damn suspicious of DS then then you should've voted him in the first place instead of just switching to him just because his wagon had more votes. Or you know what would've been even more reasonable?! ACTUALLY COMMING TO A CONCLUSION WITH ANALYSIS AND QUOTES AS TO WHY DS WAS A BETTER CHOICE!!!!!!

And fyi, when I said I wanted to hear somthing new, maybe a well laid out case against DS would've been nice! Instead of jumbled attacks on him over 5 or 6 pages. But I guess a little explanation for a vote is too much to ask.

And, wow, gorckat I'm such a fool for not being sure what to do. I guess I'd look much more protown like you if I had gone ahead and lynched a townie based on the size of his wagon instead of asking for help.

and finally, how hypocritical you should call me hypocritical, when you voted me solely on appealing to emotion and just want ahead and did the same thing yourself. That's double-hypocritical, sir.(being a hypocrite and criticizing hypocrites)

[Paradoxombie]

But instead, 4 people made up their minds on 30 pages within 2 hours and all just happened to come to the same conclusion, the wrong one, and all indirectly helped the mafia.

Which is it? Am I scum, or did I

indirectly help the mafia

? If I'm scum, I'd be directly helping myself, wouldn't you say?

Wow, you've got me.

[Paradoxombie]

After watching you two bitch at each other, I've decided to

Vote: Paradox

.

Because Caps Lock makes you look desperate to shift the focus off you.

Interesting you should feel that way, I find your vote on me baseless and desperate, as well as piggybacking on gorckat's which is already pretty damn baseless and desperate. Maybe one of you guys should return the favor and make

actual

arguments against me. Or is just saying I've always looked scummy the best you can do?

[Paradoxombie]

I meant an argument for why I'm scummy, and not against you being scum. Some 10+ page old quote from you won't cut it either. That's a preemptive comment.

I voted you because of the quote I put of you in the post where I voted you. If there's better evidence or a better case against someone else(besides myself) I'll vote them instead, obviously.

[Paradoxombie]

Oh, and why no 10 page old quotes? You dug up old stuff on me, once, and I answered it.

I just don't want you to quote your same argument against me from before. I don't care if you use the same points, but I wanted it all layed out again if you were going to use the same stuff, and not just a quote.

3) The Innocents and Uncaring Votes by gorc: My vote on DS was calculated to pressure him to the max. I was convinced he was scum. I've been convinced you're scum.

I'm sorry, I don't really know what part of my post youre interpreting. Just because you say that you thought DS was scum and you think I'm scum doesn't make it alright that you freely vote hoped between innocent people. It's not strong evidence, but it just makes the pieces fit like a jigsaw.

4) What If This Was Day One, People?: This and number 3 are your Appeal to Emotion. Irrelevant, as well. Day 1 with only tells, contradictions and no role reveals is different from seeing two townies down, having developed gut feelings and hunches on who's who.

That's not really an argument and I didn't mean to make it one, I just think others aren't reacting as strongly as they should just because were so far into the game. Even if they disagree with me I think there should be more response to the quicklynch.

And you leave lateralus off your scummy quick lynch list.

Clarify. Unless I'm mistaken, Lat didn't vote DS at all. Which is odd, because your actions seem to imply that you think he did. Perhaps you're mistaken?

[Paradoxombie]

On the old quotes...so I can just repeat myself, but not use quote tags? That's what you seem to be saying.

I just want you to give a good argument without simply reciting somthing you said before.

My number three is directed here:

And I guess it's just another coincidence that both the people he is willing to vote so eagerly and without another single thought are both innocent.

I have given it much thought. I don't think you're innocent, despite your saying it over and over.

Is being eager a scum tell? If I was measured and slow, would that make my votes on you less suspect, if they originate from the same place?

It has nothing to do with what you're doing now. I just find it VERY suspicious that you were doing the exact same thing as scum usually do. That is, Vote hoping between inoccents until you can get a good solid bandwagon on one. And I would definitely have found it much less suspicious if you had gone slower and laid out good reasoning, because then there wouldn't have been a quicklynch, or by giving solid reasoning for going from voting me to DS because at least then it wouldn't look like(and be exactly like, in every way,) vote hopping.

My point is this, you picked two people, both with some suspicion on them already, you attacked them all day, then you lynched whichever one you could as soon as you could without further explanation. Niether was Mafia. It's a perfect cover for scum. And Occult and Somestrangeflea have similar circumstances.

[Paradoxombie]

I didn't lynch DS- you're acting like my vote nailed his coffin shut. flea and Occult did that. You keep putting 100% responsibility on me, when it can't be done.

I've never tried to do that, but I find it funny you seem to have admitted you think there was scum on the wagon....

The only thing you are right on is the quick lynch part. You're wrong on who to go after.

....and yet the only person you go after wasn't even on the bandwagon, and also happens to be the one who suspects you. The only other you've gone after today is Lat, who is
1. another person not on the quicklynch wagon
2. a newbie and
3. an easy target.
So if focusing on one scummy person at a time is a crime, I'd think you were just as guilty as I. (Triple Hypocrite)

And your arguments are all pretty fallacious, somestrangeflea.

[Paradoxombie]

1. What are your thoughts on Lateralus?

I think he's town. I think he should claim at this point, but I'm not sure.

2. Who do you think is most likely to be town at the moment?

Lateralus, I guess. He seems too newbie-ish to be using any sort of tactic.

*******************************
Day 3, Fourth official vote count:

Paradoxombie (1): somestrangeflea
Aimee (1): Thesp
gorckat (1): Paradoxombie

Not voting: Peter Venkman, Occult, Aimee, Lateralus, gorckat

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Paradoxombie]

Okay I've been sitting on this for a bit. As I pointed out, I've only gone specifically after gorckat because I feel I can make the best case against him. But obviously I could just as logically go after flea or occult. Well my main reason I didn't want to go after Occult was because if he said that it was simply an accident that he hammered, I would have very little to go after. Still "accidentally" hammering is pretty damn suspicious, and scum wouldn't want to be forced to go with that story. I feel that since nobody has asked Occult he chose to lay low and avoid the question(this isn't an argument just conjecture). If he really had accidentally hammered, I'm sure he would have admitted that on his own by now.

Since he was last on the wagon, I'd think there'd be a slightly higher likelyhood that he was scum althought Occult, Flea, and Gorckat are all pretty evenly scummy to me, atm. The only reason I didn't go after him immediately was I didn't want to force him to go with the accident defense. In conclusion,

Vote: Occult
IGMEOY: somestrangeflea, Gorckat

All for the reasons I've laid out recently.

[Paradoxombie]

Yeah for reference, when I wrote my last post I hadn't read Peter's or Gorckat's last posts

[Paradoxombie]

There is a simple answer to my lurking: I forgot about this game.
Hammer: Was accidental (Horrible mistake on my part).

The fact that you only say these things now is pretty damn scummy. What kind of person accidentally hammers but doesn't point out there own mistake for a month? In the same vein it's odd to forget about a game and not mention how you forgot when you start posting again. I think it's obvious that you are calling your actions accidents once they are pointed out as scummy and not immediately after you make them as any authentically mistaken townie would/should.

Also, I agree with Gorckat's reasoning, but I can't decide if such a slip is worthy of consideration as a scum tell. It's close.

[Paradoxombie]

Great Game.

One of my very first thoughts after Thesp started posting was how his playstyle was a perfect cover for scum. I thought about it prettyt often during the duration of the game. I was planning to look into that as soon as more obvious scumhunting was done, but never got around to it.