Mini 1652: Sweet Dreams - Game Over!

[Aristophanes]

** This is a deceiving wall. I spoilered things so it looks nicer. Sorry I wrote so much **
Feel free to yell at me for things I missed.

Spoiler: Some notes I wrote while reading through

Lapsa not so bad. Give him a chance. Actually, the more I read the more I like Lapsa tbh

BJI is a dummy. FoS, but may be noob things.
BJI on Pacman's "old adage" shows he didn't read the post fully and focused on himself solely. Do not like. (225) - it's not lazy and tends to be somewhat accurate actually
311 misreps Pacman something good. He never said he'd hammer Nickn-er-Me, but that he would like to see the day and conversation progress in that way.

Count Dooku - ISO - feels like scum

PK seems in line with the one game I have as meta, not that I should rely on that, nor was he there D1. Okay with him for now though.

Silverwolf, Johnny, and West seem fine.

Aero, it was nice playing with you I guess..

There's that other guy who I forgot about.. he should do something.

TMJ hurts my head already...iso? I only remember 2 incomprehensible posts having happened.

Aero and PK, page 15, can you guys please just get a fucking room or shut up!
You figuratively wasted a page just quoting the same fucking 5 lines!!!
It's not even over anything big! Just differences in wording. Please stop getting mad and let the game progress!
On a side note, I enjoyed that the bolding/large-font stuff was followed by PK quoting that he wasn't yelling. If that was satirical, gg. I suspect otherwise, but I chuckled regardless.
Inb4 Johnny

There's too much anger in Mafia.

-----

Page 16 we have Nickname requesting replacement, cool. 2 votes on him/me. Nbd. How did I end up replacing into L-2!?
I will be addressing the votes on my predecessor.

Spoiler: Nickname Wagon and Stuff

Previous to the replacement request

Lapsa votes in order to get things going for everyone. I'm oddly okay with this vote.
Silverwolf, is your vote because Nickname lurked somewhat? What about his L-1 vote is scummy? He seemed to have no intention on pushing a hammer and was busy with RL things. Is it bad, in your eyes, to do that and leave for a while?

The rest is all post-replacement-request

PK, why the push for Nickname but no vote? The wagon was started for you, yet you still don't jump on? Did you, at this point (directly following you & Aero's yelling match), find Aero or Nickname more scummy? If it was Nickname, why keep your vote on Aero? If it was Aero, why the push on Nickname instead?
Count Dooku, your vote is absolutely asinine. Please elaborate on this scum read and how replacing out when he was clearly busy with RL and overwhelmed by his other 3 games makes him obvious scum. [Lel, even the guy who thinks changing an avatar midgame is scummy doesn't see subbing out as scummy. Please, tell me how this vote makes any shred of sense.]
Prolapsed Brain, why the vote on Nickname? You hadn't even mentioned him prior to this. You never stated a case. Please fill me in.
West, you suck. This vote is shitty. Nickname had done little. He was up for replacement. Why would you vote him without giving him the chance to fight back? What did you hope to glean from analysis on this tomorrow?

Alrighty, so ppl got to following up on things before I got here. Cool.
Brain, why the unvote? I don't really see any progression in arguments, so what changed?
West, I guess I can let that go. Do I feel scummy or will you need more prodding to figure that out?
Count Dooku, what makes the swift following of Brain and West scummy to you? Why does it make them scummier than yourself?

-----

BJI, your 381 is really scummy to me for ~reasons~
Actually though, I'll parse this later. Yourself and Count Dooku are my top two scum reads atm though.

UNVOTE: Aristophanes

welcome!

Greetings!

BJI, you don't have to go into ridiculous lengths to prove yourself. I feel like you're overdoing everything you write and I'm not sure if it's noob-scum-jitters trying to cover up every possible angle or just overcompensating for your newness.
[for example, 408. You go way off the deep end with the analysis of simply asking for meta. People ask for meta a lot. It helps round out reads. You just read waaay too much into it imo] [This is followed, in the same post, by a misrep of Pacman's words. He stated he would like to see the focus fall upon Nickname/me today, and that a lynch would be nice in that spot. He never said he'd hammer. Also, this is still pressure, unlike how your read it before. One can pressure people in ways other than with votes.]

Johnny is definitely good people.

Spoiler:

@bji
<snip>
regarding 208, your line of reasoning goes like this:
1) Evilpacman would be fine with a Nickname lynch.
2) Evilpacman wants Nickname to be dead right now.
3) Evilpacman would hammer Nickname if he had the chance.

The link between 1 and 2 is what is wrong with your logic.
<snip>

I would vote bji, but this wagon has merit and seems like it'll be really fun to analyze tomorrow. VOTE: Nickname

Gross. You saw he was replacing out, right?

At the time I made that vote, no. I'm fine with my vote being on Ari, though. I'm doubtful that we're going to get a wagon that'll be as fun to analyze.[/quote]West, thank you for putting what's wrong with BJI's jump in logic into proper English. I was struggling with that.
I knew I liked you for a reason!
What makes getting rid of me fun? I think I already asked this, but what kind of analysis are you looking forward to? Are you here solely for info-lynch purposes?

VOTE: Count Dooku
I know it's crappy to vote and run, but with the time change and it being 2am, I need to sleep.

[Aristophanes]

OHey Gliffie!
How goes it?

@Prolapsed Brain

Prolapsed Brain, why the vote on Nickname? You hadn't even mentioned him prior to this. You never stated a case. Please fill me in.
<snip>
Brain, why the unvote? I don't really see any progression in arguments, so what changed?

I know this was spoilered, but did you read my post at all? Mind responding?

@Silverwolf

Okay, so I reread your 368.
Nickname put PK at L-1, voted Lapsa because (as I read it) he saw him as active lurking and deterring from the game, and didn't want to advertise other mafia sites.
The latter is null and I don't see how it effects a read. weird, yes. Scummy, no.
Lapsa's posts had me confused until that one where he brought it all together and my mind blew a bit. I fail to see how that vote is scummy, even if I don't support it.
The L-1 thing is okay I guess, but is it a reason to lynch? Is that all you found that was scummy from him? Do you find myself scummy as well?

@Gliffie

Johnny seems to be doing his regular poking. I like his poking. I see nothing wrong with him this far.
He's a null-town lean. I'm not super town reading him for anything, but I don't see anything wrong with his posts, which makes me like him.

@PK

PK, why the push for Nickname but no vote? The wagon was started for you, yet you still don't jump on? Did you, at this point (directly following you & Aero's yelling match), find Aero or Nickname more scummy? If it was Nickname, why keep your vote on Aero? If it was Aero, why the push on Nickname instead?

I might also add to the questions "Why did you unvote Aero when it appeared he was behind/not reading because it was a wasted vote, yet not unvote him when he requested replacement, which meant he was reading nothing. What made the latter a non-issue when you were okay with unvoting him for merely being behind?

I'm reiterating these because I feel like, having been spoilered, nobody bothered to read all of my post.

@West

Yes, I would agree that my post focused on the votes and voters who targeted myself/Nickname. I replaced into a spot at L-2 and felt that was the best place to start.
I am not trying to hide this in my post at all.
What do you gain from this?

Spoiler: Dooku ISO

Starts with a RVS vote. That's fine.
Some mechanics stuff, alright in context.
Asks questions that are very surface with no follow-up.
Like, other than the eyebrow raising in my direction (with no vote until the wagon got bigger) until his 29th post, 371th of the game. Even that he followed up only with a gut read.

Nickname vote only happens because he is replacing, or "running away". I still say that's dumb.
Your post 397 does finally state your case, but:
In the first two posts, he is clearly too busy to make a proper post. I respect IRL commitments. I believe people wouldn't lie about them. Does that make this slot scummy?
I can agree that the "I suck at Mafia" card is crappy, but why is it SCUMMY?
Lapsa vote is boring, yes, and the only point I can see holding water, maybe with the L-1 and "wagon jumping", but that was not your argument.

I still don't like 399. I know you wouldn't say YOU are scummy, but from my perspective, I see all three of these as potentially scummy votes.
Also, when you addressed my question, I don't think you quite got it.
You only voted once a wagon was forming and Nickname was replacing. Brain and West did the same. I don't see how you can call them scummy when you did the same thing.
As well, stating you don't like a post and stating you think its poster is scum are two totally different things. And if you thought Nickname scummy, why no vote until so late in the phase?

So yes, I think it is a crappy vote, and I do think you scummy for what I honestly see as empty posting.
Please address the above stated (spoilered) points.

[Aristophanes]

I apologize for that. My aim is not to defend him but to analyze the wagon that formed.
I realize that is doing so I am making some calls about his play,and I will dial that back.
That is nowhere near the entirety of my posts, but I had to enter on the defensive.

Regardless, I like your posts and am getting all around town vibes from you.
You seem to have decent analysis in your posts and I don't disagree with most of your points.

I'll be back late tonight/tomorrow again. Just fyi everyone.

[Aristophanes]

@SW
Appeasy? I honestly am unsure what you mean by that..

@Dooku
I think your push was scummy. Johnny agreed with me, btw, that the vote due to subbing was shitty. I'm not the only one.

You only voted once a wagon was forming and Nickname was replacing. Brain and West did the same. I don't see how you can call them scummy when you did the same thing.

Again. Take a look at the paragraph before last one.
Also.
I have never said that they are scum. Please read my posts, before you vote me. Thanks.
-----
Did you read it?
If you still think that I said that they are scum because they jumped on the wagon, let me help you:

If we lynch Nickname and if he flips town

, I am pretty sure that at least one of West and Brain is scum. They followed my vote too quickly.

I know that you misreped me on purpose, to make me look scummy, though. One more reason to scumread you.

I don't think I'm misrepping, I'm just posting from my perspective.
Since I know I'm town, that, to me, is a scumread on them. Thus I ask what makes them scumreadable should I flip town, other than their votes upon me.

Also, please, find me a post before 321 where you did anything but surface level shit, questions you didn't follow up on or that made no difference to the game, and weren't a slight eyebrow raising at Nick. I fail too see how I was unclear.

Sorry for sucky structure, but phone post.

@West, reads will follow soon.

[Aristophanes]

Prolapsed Brain
I see you posting.
I believe I asked you things.
Would you mind responding to something for once!

[Aristophanes]

421 was where Johnny called out your vote.
Did you miss that Dooku?

[Aristophanes]

@SW
Appeasy? I honestly am unsure what you mean by that..

I may be making too much of this because I don't know your normal playstyle but appeasement is when someone scumreads a person and they try to make themselves less of a threat by returning a townread or maybe being apologetic or backing down really quickly from an argument or something similar so the person scumreading them moves on to other suspects.

This could just be a playstyle thing and not alignment indicative since I don't know your normal play but I've seen scum who would rather back down from an argument rather than fight it out for obvious reasons as they are more likely to slip up if a townie pushes them too hard.

Ahh!
Well, I believe I do this quite often tbh, but I can let others abswer that if you like.

I have been townreading you the whole time.
If you wanna fight, I can, just see no need

[Aristophanes]

Also, the @West for reads was supposed to be an @PK.
No clue why I thought West asked me for the reads. I think I just assumed he would.

[Aristophanes]

Town reads/leans:
Silverwolf, Lapsa, Johnny
Pacman, Pk

Null/Unknown:
Gliffie, TMJ, Victor

Scum Leans:
BJI, West

Scum reads/leans:
Count Dooku, Prolapsed Brain

[Aristophanes]

Ebwop
Because phone posted too early.

Town Reads/Strong Town Leans:
Silverwolf, Lapsa, Johnny

Town Leans:
Pacman, Pk

Null/Unknown:
Gliffie, TMJ, Victor

Scum Leans:
BJI, West

Scum Reads:
Count Dooku, Prolapsed Brain

[Aristophanes]

Anything?
Since i see u already done some question here and there...
In your reading so far, please rank everyone. I will make comment based on that.

YJM
I would really.like you to contribute more.

If you want a reads list.to commment on , why not mi e? Does it need be SW's?
What are your thoughts?

Gliff
I would like you to actually aay why you're voting me.
Is it because I seem "appeasy"?
Is it because I didn't argue with SW?
If the latter, that is because they have good points, which, along with a town lean, lead to myaelf having no reason to question them right now.

[Aristophanes]

YJM = TMJ
I'm drunk.

[Aristophanes]

Got called into work, post later tn hopefully.

The onion is great btw!

[Aristophanes]

Ari, we require your reassuring presence. Y U no Post?

Keep getting called into work whenever I have time set aside.

On my way home and plans fell through for tn, so I'll have a post soon

Reassuring presence?
I don't know whether to read this sarcastically or not but I like it

(I forgot I hate this emoji on this site...)
XD

[Aristophanes]

@Aristophanes, could you please write down concise read summaries for these guys?

these guys = [Pacman, West, Count Dooku]

Uggh, giving me homework??
Well, my plans are back on for tn and I work all weekend so regular V/LA for that...I'll do my best to summarize my reads though.
Pacman: When he's been here, I can see an effort being brought to the game and he seems to be trying to figure things out. I'm not getting bad vibes from this slot.
West: Mostly based on his placement on my wagon. I can't remember why else tbh right now and would need to Reread his stuff to remember. This is what happens when I leave for a day or two. I forget everything... -'_-
Count Dooku: Haven't I made this case before? We've had multiple back and forths and just aren't on the same page. I was initially scumreading him rather harshly, but I'm thinking it might be playstyle differences, as I'm notorious for scumreading those types of things. I'm willing to revisit him, but for now he's on the naughty list.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Inactivity. Everybody tell me why their vote is better than P Brain

P.Brain is aight if we want a D1 lurker lynch. The problem I have with that is that, other than with the night flip, we go into D2 with less info/associative tells than usual. That said, he is being quite antitown in his play right now and if it is to be kept up, he should die. Based on that last bit, I will sheep this wagon if it grows and we need a consensus as the day grown to an end.
I've made my case on Dooku but I need to revisit things I guess. Pacman calling him town and BJI scum kinda makes me rethink things, so I'll have to get back to you I guess. It doesn't look like he's a viable lynch candidate for today though.

surprised nobody is leading this vote off... good sign that it's the right vote. I'll get it started.

vote: BJI

What makes the fact that nobody has led this vote a good sign? I don't see what you're getting at there.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Inactivity. Everybody tell me why their vote is better than P Brain

My vote is worse than a Prolapsed Brain vote. I'd be willing to vote Prolapsed Brain but only because with a clear scum choice, I'd be as happy to see PB go as anyone.

I would also be willing to vote for evilpacman18, VictorDeAngelo, and Gliffie.

I'm trying to pick middle of the road players who do not seem to scummy nor non-scummy. I expect that this is how the scum are hiding.

What makes a "null" (middle of the road) player your main target? You seem to have a thing against the less active players. Is inactivity scummy to you\/ have these four done anything else that makes you suspect them and/or think their lynches are a good place to start?

There's only one wagon out right now, and 2 on SW.
. If Ari was scum, do you think another wagon/push would have sprung up?

Either way, town benefits most from having 2 operating wagons going. Allows discussion and forces people to make choices.

Hmm...I kinda like this.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
I guess it can't hurt to get the ball rolling.
Please, actually contribute something. You really suck right now.

BJI,
I really kinda hope you're just noobing hardcore, because you've said so many things that make me think you scum, like your ways of going about arguments and such. I'm willing to let you slide until day 2, but after that I don't think I can. Please make genuine posts with genuine reasoning for genuine reads, rather than this "throw everything and see what sticks" and "highly exaggerated reactions" play. This stuff really isn't helping anyone.

@Gliffie, I suppose your reasoning is alright, but I don't necessarily agree. I am not one to argue unless I see a point in it.
If I have a town read and they do town things, I'm not gonna cause drama just for the sake of it. I will just let things pass.
If they start to slip into scummier/null territory I am much more likely to toss questions their way, push things at them, etc.
Yes, I do ask townreads questions, but there is a very different tone to it when I do, and I'm much more likely to accept their answer, rather than fight with them.
Also, I totally thought %100 was some weird European thing until you corrected yourself XD

I bet this is much less than you expected from me PK, and I apologize.
I'm out for the night now and may be on-and-off all weekend. Hopefully I'll have some good motivation Sunday night and can wow you!

[Aristophanes]

Yeah, Ari is scum.

What was it that solidified this for you?

P.Brian,
Why do you think yourself, Silverwolf, or Gliffie are the best votes for VDA to make right now?
In fact, why include yourself in that list? Do you think you should be lynched and why??

I'm legit curious what made everyone totally okay with my lynch based on that last post I made...
I mean, I know it wasn't great, but I'm a busy guy.

If I am the lynch, so be it. But I argue that I am town with not enough time to have a great D1 countercase.

Also, the vote on P.Brian is not intended as my final message. I will Iso him, those asked by others for me to clear uo my read on, and time forgiving, everyone else in this game. I'm merely busy on weekends and can't do so until Sunday.
If you kill me before then, so be it.

[Aristophanes]

I need a reader's digest version of 632.

It should take you less than 10 minutes to read. This is a FORUM game where READING is a prerequisite. I never understand when people complain about having to read in a game that is all about reading.

Umm, I normally hate being that guy is things, but I need to be that guy right now.

1. That was way ridiculous as a D1 wall. If it had been a catchup post or something from a while back, I could see it, but to do all of that for one person is ridiculous. And SW is right, you basically painted every single thing she did in a bad light. This could be done to just about anyone, town or scum, if you wanted to. I also found it reiterated a lot of things multiple times when the whole case honestly reads as weak to me. I appreciate the effort, but sorry bro, not buying it.

2. One sec, I have to figure out how to enlarge text...

Spoiler:

This is a FORUM game where READING is a prerequisite.

Okay, so reading is a prerequisite. How about you read what people are saying to you instead of being so fucking dense!!! I mean, If you sincerely do not understand the quotes from PK, especially when laid out in such a manner, and somehow cannot even fathom what he could possibly have been saying, I'm sorry.
Please, just take a minute. Reflect upon what you're reading. Don't just ignore what you don't understand. And if someone says they're not going to tell you something, especially when it's somewhat role related, please just let them fucking be! Maybe Wiki it? That might give you some answers. Did you think of that??
If I continue this point, I may start attacking your personality, so I'm going to move on [best segue I've ever done I think]

3. Can you Please back off of Silverwolf for a bit! Like, holy shit guy! You're causing her mental anguish! Anyone reading this can see that! You've gone beyond making a case on her and are now just being mean. I mean, keep a vote there if you like, that's cool. Ask her questions, and feel free to re-ask or ask for clarification if you need, no problems there. But you pushed her and pushed her and pushed her, even when she said she didn't want to. Then when she gave you whet you asked for you said it was her bad for giving out "sensitive info" (though it was all in the thread already and almost anyone reading it probably understood what was meant the first time around). You were just being rude. And then to continue that push into her obvious duress and not even seem to acknowledge it?? Like, really.

4. Just to reiterate

Please back the fuck down from SW.
She is a real person.
She has real feelings.
You are causing her pain and anguish.
Stop.

(That last bit was the "I hate to be 'that guy'" bit.)

[Aristophanes]

Sorry this isn't a content post.
I got nothing alignment related from BJI/SW interactions really.
I still like SW as town, as I did before.
I still like BJI as scum, as I did before.

Anything else from me will be tomorrow night.
Please, just don't make people sub out or need restraining orders or anything while I'm gone this time. Please!

[Aristophanes]

Ari's 667 is hyperbolic and it's weird that he can feel so strongly about bji-SW yet admit in the next post that he "got nothing alignment related" from it. Anyways Ari, you're at L-1 now with few days to spare. Talk to us. You said P Brain lynch is not your final message? Show us what you have in mind.

I stand by my post there, but since both have (sadly) replaced out, I suppose there's no reason to dwell on it.
I could feel real emotion in SW's final posts and reacted accordingly. She has since replaced, which I was hoping wouldn't need to happen.
BJI replacing is also annoying, but hopefully someone a little more readable comes in there.
He was, IMO, scummy. If whoever replaces into that spot also acts scummy, please schedule them for demolition.

I read PK's claim (and understood it) when it first happened and didn't mention it because it seemed nobody had, and the pressure on him died shortly thereafter iirc. I just assumed people had gotten it. Thaht's part of why he's a town read for me.
Sorry if I was rude or whatever.

I'll see if I can get a good reads post together. It'd be cool if TMJ and PB could do something in D2.

Do people want me to claim? I can do that. It's a very easily confirmable role.

[Aristophanes]

Its work hour here. Gonna reply in a few hours.

That'd be nice

[Aristophanes]

If it's friendly neighbor, I want you dead anyway based on InuYasha.

But yes you should claim.

Welp!

Hi, I'm the town neighborizer...
I can neighborize someone nightly.

[Aristophanes]

I don't get how people in this game are so bad at engaging with/understanding people...
I mean, I have my moments, but Yeesh!

Titus, PK was making a(n obvious) joke about the Cop part of his role.
I liked SW, as I said, but I need to read Titus. Gimme a minute, I know it won't be a long Iso.
PK, what is it about Tutis that makes you so wary? I've never played with her before.

I do find the idea of neighbouring a scumread interesting. I had wanted to do a townread, but feedback would be cool I guess.

Can someone please vig TMJ or PB tn if we have one. They really aren't helping us and I hate wasting lynches on lurkers.

[Aristophanes]

I liked SW, as I said, but I need to read Titus. Gimme a minute, I know it won't be a long Iso.

Titus is a boss weight player. This deliberate 'misinterpretation' of everything I said since you claimed is far, far beneath her.

Gotcha!
I had her name tossed around before, just never with context.

Iso is bland.
Liked your claim, voted me with no reasoning. Voted P.Brain to post more. And the apparent misunderstanding of what you're saying.
Already getting a bad taste in my mouth from this.
Titus, do you have intent to lynch P.Brain or what?
TMJ also has done nothing yet promised to, so what makes P.Brain the better lynch choice?

VOTE: Titus

[Aristophanes]

Whoa, Brian is here! Somehow I missed that.

Brain!!!
Do you have any reads??

Thoughts on current events???

[Aristophanes]

Cool, any insights as to why?

Do you have a read on anyone else?

[Aristophanes]

Yeah, how about we don't direct night actions.

That doesnt prevent him from lying w/a buddy. I want him to confirm his role, not chain him for the rest of the game.

Thanks, I like the list. It will likely be one of these, as they were who I had in mind as well, but I may go for anyone.

Bji, welcome back.
Sorry if I was rude.

Titus, I mean, just read that again plz.

[Aristophanes]

Pk did say why you're misrepping. So did I.

[Aristophanes]

@pisskop, are you afraid of a NK?

I expect as a claimed town PR to be killed unless the scum think they can swing a lynch.

A confirmed town PR is only dangerous if they still have information they haven't given.

Or if they live because they are town and make it to lylo.
Scum don't want a conftown in lylo, obviously

[Aristophanes]

I just realized I won't likely have any post tomorrow due to work and St Patrick's day celebrations. .

Titus, how are you still not getting what PK said??

There was a question for me somewhere back there but I am tired. Will probably post on the bus to work in the morning, so if someone wanted to reask something it'd make it a lot quicker.

@Gliff, what a fun game that was!

Would it be weird if I said I liked that PK doesn't trust me to interrogate a scum read behind closed doors?

Also, pm says every night, no x-shot specified.

[Aristophanes]

Because what he says is gibberish to me.

Tell me what I should be missing.

Okay, Titus, here we go.
Pisskop didn't claim Cop, that was a joke.
The list of himself, Lapsa, and <your name here> was to pick three people, one of which I would choose to neighbourize tonight.
He was just being snarky, not serious, when he said he was cop.

He's claimed I formed townie.
He's claimed there are no investigative roles.
Someone (Dooku?) pointed out he could be informed scum.

I'd quote, but on my phone.
Does that help any?

[Aristophanes]

Also, interesting counterwagon on TMJ.
Lapsa, you were ready to hammer Titus, what changed?

I mean, I'm all for it, I'm just curious.

[Aristophanes]

Also, interesting counterwagon on TMJ.
Lapsa, you were ready to hammer Titus, what changed?

I mean, I'm all for it, I'm just curious.

hands were shaking

Ah, true

[Aristophanes]

Fuck!

Take a wild guess who I neighbourized ;_;

[Aristophanes]

Bji, PK, I can see you both as town for sure judging by Titus/SW things yesterday.

What are your thoughts on the NKs if any?

Pk, I like both your fos and vote based on this, but I'm curious if you could just, ya know, articulate it.
Also, you said one of Titus' scumreads was likely scum. They ended up being TMJ and PB. Which do you think is likelier scum?

Ninja'd
@BJI, is my simple picking the wrong person enough to warrant a vote and do you intend on having me lynched, despite my pr claim?

[Aristophanes]

Also, my guess is we've lost a majority of our PRs already in this one night.

Titus slipped (I think) in saying she was better at reading games with scum prs, as opposed to goon games, while she fumbled and floundered.
This tells me we likely have few town prs and mostly goon-scum.

I know neighbourizer isn't realy that powerful, but it's still a town and a pr at that. Can we really waste it?

[Aristophanes]

@Bji
1) I chose Lapsa as I thought he a less obvious choice and less likely to die. I obviously gauged that improperly.

2) Well, I agree that Lapsa probably killed DK, which I honestly think was a decent choice, though one of the lurkers would have been nice.
As for his death, it was really safe. He voted all over yet was low key with few ties. Unsure who would have made such a kill, unlikely to be one of the lurkers though (by that I mean P.Brain and TMJ) imo. Will see if I can get anything in a read back.

3.1) I did make my claim when it was possible I would have died. That is when I claim in any game unless I have good reason to. What's wrong with that?
3.2) So, you think it more likely I killed Lapsa rather than neighbourize him? I would have had bigger fish to fry if I were scum. That's why I chose to neighbour him. Like I say, bad choice apparently, but who knew.

[Aristophanes]

Any specific reason why u suspect pb more?

I was more interested in whether you would be prepared to move. The fact you wouldn't is worth looking at tomorrow.

VDA, if you switch to PBrain, scum might just have to bus. Stick to your guns on me being town.

With so little time left I don't see any other lynch happening at this point. You should write your final thoughts at this point.

I wonder, whats the reason you ask me to switch in the first place?

vote victor

I'm actually rather curious as well. I think I get his angle here, but not gonna answer for him.

TMJ, pleeeeeeeease can I have something of a reads list?
Reactions to other stuff in the game?
Anything?

[Aristophanes]

Say, Ari, you came from that anime site too, right? the one gliffie linked?

I was, in fact, scum with him in the game he linked

[Aristophanes]

Relatively well, some moreso than others.
Gliff I've only played a couple games with, the linked one being our main interaction.
The rest (West, Johnny, Lal, Metal, Cheet, etc) I have more games with.

[Aristophanes]

Also, I think I pretty much already said this to you, but I was interested to see whether you'd switch.

I should probably expand on this actually.

TMJ, yesterday you did nothing. Not one serious vote until his buddy was in need of bussing. No attempt to have any actual scumreads. Hence why I asked you about your vote instead of anyone else on the wagon. Hope this has been educational.

So, with Titus' flip, you think it scummier that TMJ didn't counterwagon, but instead voted her?
What would your thoughts have been if he had vouched for a switch to PB?

[Aristophanes]

So, VDA, just so we are clear.
You think TMJ made the right choice in keeping his vote on Titus but think it to be bussing. Yet you don't necessarily think it scummy despite having to be scum in order to bus scum, and think it only worthy of pressure? That's a mighty confusing thought process and I would argue it to be rather contradictory.
Also, I actually meant I that second part that since Titus flipped scum, had TMJ vouched to switch his vote rather than keep it there, would you have called it a town or a scum motivation?

I also take it you have PB as a town read then?

[Aristophanes]

If anybody's a vig, Lapsa's your man

thank you

This quote is beautiful in retrospect.

Town Reads/Strong Town Leans:
Silverwolf, Lapsa, Johnny

Town Leans:

Pacman

, Pk

Null/Unknown:
Gliffie, TMJ, Victor

Scum Leans:
BJI,

West

Scum Reads:

Count Dooku

, Prolapsed Brain

my reads differs a bit

@Aristophanes, could you please write down concise read summaries for these guys?

these guys = [Pacman, West, Count Dooku]

I find this interesting. He disagreed on my scumread of Dooku.
Makes me think DK may have been a jailer who can kill their target at the end of the night, jailed Lapsa, and decided to kill him, getting shot by scum himself. I have seen this variant quite a few times.

Pk, where was the line of questioning with my familiarity to D2-ers going?

Ninja'd a lot. Will read.

[Aristophanes]

So, VDA, just so we are clear.
You think TMJ made the right choice in keeping his vote on Titus but think it to be bussing. Yet you don't necessarily think it scummy despite having to be scum in order to bus scum, and think it only worthy of pressure? That's a mighty confusing thought process and I would argue it to be rather contradictory.

This is quite a jumble, so let me try to unravel it and let me know if anything doesn't make sense.

TMJ bussed Titus. He had not been scumreading her up until the point she was at L-2 and he voted her.
I thought TMJ scummy before his vote. I stated the reasons yesterday if you go back into my ISO.
I was testing him with the question. If PB was town, an opportunistic scum would jump to save their buddy. A smarter scum would stay. If PB was scum, then so would not so smart scum.
I don't see what's contradictory here.

Also, I actually meant I that second part that since Titus flipped scum, had TMJ vouched to switch his vote rather than keep it there, would you have called it a town or a scum motivation?

Scum motivation obviously.

I also take it you have PB as a town read then?

What made you ask this?

What I'm asking is if there was actually a point to that question, as it seems you would have scumread TMJ either way.
From what I gather, you don't think PB would have suggested such a thing, a d from your last post, you said if Titus flipped scum PB was town. Just sorting things.
Makes more sense now.

[Aristophanes]

Makes me think DK may have been a jailer who can kill their target at the end of the night, jailed Lapsa, and decided to kill him, getting shot by scum himself. I have seen this variant quite a few times.

No.

Informed is not a normal role, as far as I know. Thus I am the non-normal role. mini games can only have up to one non-normal role.

Okie dokie. Learning things as we go.

@Vda, I must have missed that one. Makes more sense now.
I had thought of the alternate there as I wasn't sure if my neighbourizing would kick in at night or the next day. If the former, the fact that I didn't get to talk to lapsa would mean she was likely jailed or myself blocked.
This is not so though, as Cheet confirmed it kicks in during the next day.
Just a passing thought I wanted to explore.

[Aristophanes]

[Aristophanes]

Tl;dr
Your actions are scummy and your associations with SW/Tities highlights it.
VOTE: TMJ

Is that good enough?
If not, I suggest you read and respond.

[Aristophanes]

And yes, you ask ppl to provide reading.
Do you read it though? Do you even reas what we ask?
We don't have a clue because you don't respond, ask helpful things yourself, or give us any sort of interaction in the game.
Mafia as about interactions, and I hate that it seems you don't bother with this aspect, and arguably the most important aspect, of the game.

(@tmj obviously)

[Aristophanes]

So, I got prodded. Sorry guys!
I see BJI and Victor walled at each other.
Are they worth reading or just pointless tunneled nattering at each other?

[Aristophanes]

Bji string tiwn lean.
Victor has been rather null to this point overall.

[Aristophanes]

Honestly not reading all that.

Gimme a tl;dr both of you.
Why, in one small paragraph, is the other scum (I assume you're arguing the other is scum)

[Aristophanes]

PK, with Ep's recent postings, are you still thinking them scummy?
You never did follow up on that really.

[Aristophanes]

I really think it's impossible that neither of Prolapsed or bji is scum.

Sure....

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

Mind explaining for me? Was it just that VDA asked really nicely?

Basically... Scum lynched on D1 = great time for policy lynch D2. He's not trying and can't really be read without any input. And he's the only player this is true for. Might as well separate wheat from chaff

I'm honestly more alright with this vote than I probably should be, but TMJ is just going to be a wagon every day if this keeps up and its better to lynch now than close to lylo.

[Aristophanes]

If we don't know the makeup of this game, how will we know when it's LYLO? Both pisskop and Aristophanes have made statements that imply that we'll know when we're in lylo. How will we know?

We don't, but games are balanced a certain way that you can guess when you're close, if not there.

In a game of this size, I expect 3 scum.
If it's a mostly Goon game as Titus hinted at, possibly a third party as well, though likely underpowered, not an SK or anything.

It's not that we

know

when Lylo will happen, just that with experience one can make an educated guess.

[Aristophanes]

Ups. L-1

what does this mean?

Care to claim?

[Aristophanes]

Just to lure out certain people. You can thank me later.

[Aristophanes]

Hey ho, I have arrived!
Better post in the morning, but I did do a neighbour thing and the person is still alive!
Thank the stars!

Haha I'm being ridiculous here, I know.
BJI, you may as well just confirm it.

Also, I'd bet, based on numbers and mod-meta, that there is one Mafia and one Third Party scum left.
Make sure you keep that as a possibility in your numbers PK or we may screw ourselves.

[Aristophanes]

Bji, you can't quote, but can talk about what is in the thread there.

Painting a friend's new apartment today, will post tn

[Aristophanes]

I have to reread a Scum-West game to see if this kill would make sense in his meta. I'm torn right now on it.

He, Johnny, Cheet and I all play on another site, in case anyone was wondering (I can't remember if it has come up before).

I agree with PK's "lynchpool" but have to look back to see where exactly I stand with regards to each player.
I guess I have homework to do.

My one worry is a PK informed third-party. If we find what I presume to be the last Mafia by whittling down the pool, he would be in a good spot to take the game if so. He would also be free to play townleader as he has been, as he would be anti-mafia.
Just saying, it's worth a look at when we get close to endgame.

[Aristophanes]

I mean, I think BJI is pretty town. I don't get the votes in that direction.

I'm sorry I'm being terribly inactive.
PK, you want a sheep?

Vote: West

Though EP is probably the next best choice, and Chaos is close behind.
Actually, Chaos was the Gliffie spot, right? I actually like that better as a lynch right now tbh, but whatever you guys say.
I'll sheep until I get caught up

(Sorry Cheet I'll be back into the swing of it soon I swear)

[Aristophanes]

Hey guys!

See my issue? Ari is clearly onsite, clearly aware of what we say, but has yet to grace this day with his presence

I mean, I hadn't read this thread tbh since BJI died. I haven't read the neighbourhood since you entered PK.
What in there makes me seem scummy? I haven't really done much there at all.

Gonna Iso people soon, sorry that I have not been here.
Are we arguing for a nolynch because it creates the same amount of days but with one less player to worry about mislynching?
I get it, but I don't think I've ever seen it done before. Do you think it's the best option everyone?

PK, you are still a clear townread for me. VDA has come up a lot as of late in townness from what I remember, but I need to reread everyone really in here.

That's about all the content I have atm.
From what I see though, we have 4 vt claims, an informed townie, and a neighbourizer, right?
I've been away from this game too long to remember shit -_-

[Aristophanes]

I haven't read shit until just now. I have it open as a tab on my phone, may have gone there by accident? Hard to say.

[Aristophanes]

I bet it was those damnable kitchenbots. They get everywhere, spamming their kitcheny bargains about like yesterday's newspapers caught in the wind.

I feel like this is you calling shenanigans, but I have no clue what you're saying here.

[Aristophanes]

EPM
Why is inconsistency in reads scummy?
I find most reads from scum stagnate from fear of being called out on it.

Also, D1 we had nothing.
How is voting multiple people to test them out and try for scum scummy?

We also have had no investigatives.
What are the chances that he fakeclaimed that to out them in one of probably very few that doesn't have any?

VOTE: EPM

[Aristophanes]

Also, Titus was one hell of a follow through, if I do say so myself. And I do. I owned that.

I mean, this is huge townpoints. If that was a bus, gg

[Aristophanes]

Any final thoughts EPM?

[Aristophanes]

I didn't want to put in neighborizer if it makes you feel better.

interesting. it does.

lol hey that reminds me, I can talk about this now!
Ari getting a fake-neighborizor role in my D2 while I was kinda suspicious that he was a scum-neighborizor in this game was fucking hilarious.

I had the same thoughts the whole time! Ahaha

Sorry to all that I was busy and that the neighbourhood is boring.
I was honestly not here enough to really help

BJI, I'm sorry I almost drove you away but am glad you returned and hooe to play woth you more. You have a lot of potential man!

Cheet, I know I did shittily im this game, but go ahead with a review if you like! And release the neighbourhood, I'm coo with that.

Titus def gets POTG/MVP.
And SW, hope to see you around more and hopefully in a setting you don't have to get out of. I'd love to see you play your own game without worrying about external shite.

And West, sorry I skimmed so hard at the end. I feel like I failed you more than any, PK being a close second, in having not contributed properly.


Great game Cheeto!
I didn't ruin the neighbour role, did I?

[Aristophanes]

@Victor what made you a better target than Dooku? please do argue

I was vt. If I get vigged night 1 then the town doesn't lose a valuable PR.

But lapsa knew not that you were vt or Dooku was Jailer.
In hindsight this is easy to say, but I think at the time it was a very good shot.

[Aristophanes]

DK, you were a jailkeeper who could kill one of his jailed people, yes?

I'm mostly asking because I totally called that and was told it just simply couldn't be ( by PK I think).

Also, I would have continued to tunnel you into the ground had you lived. I'm sad we lost the PR but it simplifie D2 a lot and got us going on the right track.

[Aristophanes]

Boring. Why you kill me Chaos?

Yeah, this.
Curious on the NK logics (it worked, but ya know, curiosity)

[Aristophanes]

Curious on the NK logics

I wanted to get bji out of the way as soon as possible, but I thought my slot would get a lot of heat if that was my first NK. Johnny was read as town by most people, and NK analysis wouldn't be able to pin that on me. Also, I was PR hunting; I thought if there were any left, Johnny had a decent chance of being one. bji was on the texcat lynch the next day and didn't push me as hard, so that was my window to kill him without drawing suspicion. Ari was townreading pisskop very hard, and I wanted to keep pisskop around because of his read on me. And the last kill, I was more worried about a pisskop-VDA-me lylo blowing up in my face than pisskop-West-me.

Intriguing!
I should put more thought into nightkills as scum apparently.
And you're right, I probably never would have voted PK and West being in lylo was a great idea.

You played a smart game!