Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[DeathSauce]

vote:WeyounsLastClone

for having such a long name.

[DeathSauce]

vote: muerrto

why havn't we lynched him yet?

Give us 2 good reasons, and maybe we will.

[DeathSauce]

Also,

FoS: VampanezeHunter

, for not answering the question about whether Vampaneze rhymes with Japanese.

[DeathSauce]

I agree, I have a horrible memory and a vote count on every page, or at least every other page, helps me keep my brain in order.

Plus it's useful to track player's suspicions and changes of opinion.

[DeathSauce]

I agree that placing the third vote on someone on Day One isn't that big of a deal, but it is still very slightly odd. Not really FoS-worthy, but odd.

[DeathSauce]

I guess we're moving out of the random stage now, so I'll

unvote

Nothing too interesting striking me just yet. A few minor things, like Plessiez answering for vampyrus. I thought death_omen's reasoning on WLC was shaky at first, but it does seem strange to come back and clarify that an obviously random vote was indeed random.

[DeathSauce]

death_sauce: What makes you say I was "answering for vampyrus"? You meant this post, right? I think it's pretty clear I was just carrying on the random phase tradition of giving awful reasons to vote for somebody (and vampyrus and Muerrto can confirm I'm not in on whatever inside joke was behind vamp's original comment).

Yes, that is the post I was referring to. I'm not drawing any major conclusions from it, it's just that I always notice when one player answers a question directed at another. It probably means less on page 2 than it does on page 20, so that's why I merely mentioned it and didn't point a FoS or anything.

Why do you think WLC's confirmation that his vote was random - one minute after his original post - is "strange"? And is it strange in a particularly scummy way (I don't really see how), or simply not something you'd expect a player to do?

Just an unnecessary thing to do. No one (I hope) expects a page one vote to be anything but random, so coming back to say it was random was unnecessary. I don't particularly see it as scummy, just odd.

[DeathSauce]

Hey vampy, I'm part Welsh too.

Where did strangeflea "jump" on me? Did I miss something?

[DeathSauce]

Well let's speed it up! Everyone vote for Vampaneze!

[DeathSauce]

Vote: Muerrto

I really dislike post 68 and the WIFOM that occurred afterward. The repeated requests to slow the game down are bizarre, there wasn't really any chance of a quicklynch, keeping the game moving is what we want.

[DeathSauce]

And believe me I know how to poke people and get the reactions I want.

This game was getting slow, so I decided to poke you to see what reaction I got. And notwithstanding Khel's post above, I felt you came out awfully combative over a fairly meaningless vote. That was interesting, but not as interesting as what came after that.

Death Omen's willingness to jump on a gathering wagon with nothing but craplogic was much more interesting, I felt.

unvote

FoS: Death Omen

[DeathSauce]

Questions for DeathSauce:

1) What are you current thoughts on Khel and vampyrus?
2) Is it your normal habit to remove any early random votes as soon as you think the game is moving out of "the random stage"?

1) I think Khelvaster is probably town, say 70%, but I disagree with his belief that someone defending their self is not a scumtell. The way someone defends themselves can definitely give you insight into their approach to the game.

Vampy, I have no solid read on him. He has a sort of "jokey" air that I have seen a few times from scum, but he might just be a really happy guy. If I had to put a percentage on him, I'd say 51% scum.

2) It depends. If I think my random vote could be useful in applying pressure later in the day I will sometimes keep it in place, but for the most part I tend to unvote random votes once the discussion gets serious.

[DeathSauce]

1) I think Khelvaster is probably town, say 70%, but I disagree with his belief that someone defending their self is not a scumtell. The way someone defends themselves can definitely give you insight into their approach to the game.

Deathsauce, IGMEOY. You just contradicted yourself. There is no way that defending oneself, as opposed to not defending oneself, is a scumtell in and of itself. Of course, they way they defend themselves is important. However, the fact they they defend themselves is not.

I think you misread my comment, or maybe I just expressed it poorly. The only point I am making is that observing the way someone defends their self is useful. I read your comment as that you never wanted to see anyone commenting on anyone-else's self defense.

[DeathSauce]

And finally, Sauce. He actually worries me the most. He posted a total of three times between my WIFOM post and his vote for me. He was the last to jump on my wagon before Omen jumped on and everyone else jumped off. He didn't vote Omen, just FoS'ed him so he's not quite as vote happy as the other 3. But he continues to misunderstand what I mean by slowing down the game. Did Khev calling for a lynch -2 on Omen before he can even defend himself show you what I mean by slowing down the game? Not content, voting.

You worry me as well. I felt your reaction to a third vote was quite overblown, since there was only the very slightest of chances that there was any danger in it for you. If there had been four more votes right away for a quicklynch it would be be bad for

you

, but good for the town because we'd have a pretty good idea of who to look at.

So that's why I'm not against voting, I like to see votes. Votes prompt action and reaction, like it did with you. That's what gets the game moving and gives us information. I am definitely not against gathering a lot of information on Day One, but sometimes a vote history is all the information you need.

[DeathSauce]

And now for questions for Pless:

First off, bout time someone posted some content. I wanted to ask you earlier but didn't wanna be seen as buddying up. You're the oldest player here by join date alone so good to finally hear from you.
:

My question is what is your straight opinion of me ignoring my content?

And finally, what is your MO? Everyone's got one. So far it seems very logic oriented, watching how people respond, questioning it, getting them to clarify each line. Good approach and it seemed to get some interesting answers from Flea.

This whole exchange BOTHERS me. It all seems like a suck-up on a grand scale. "Oh Plessiez, you are so wise, what do you think of my play? You are so logic oriented and play with such skill!"

I honestly do not ever recall seeing another post like this one on this board. Why are you concerned with what Plessiez thinks about you? Why are you eager to promote him as an authority?

[DeathSauce]

My thoughts on death omen? I think he's collapsing under pressure. He is not anywhere close to a lynch, but feels the need to claim and hint at a power role. That is bizarre, but I've seen it from townies as well as scum.

[DeathSauce]

Man, I have never seen someone so completely fall apart with a measly 4 votes on them. death omen's reaction have been really puzzling, normally that sort of thing doesn't happen until the person is at least at L-2.

A few phrases from death omen are troubling, the whole "IF I am town" and when he says "I'm not one of those crybaby townies.." I know what he meant to imply in the second one, but why not say "crybaby players" or the like? I don't know, I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill.

Right now Khelvaster leads my suspicion list. On Day One I look for the player who is trying the hardest to lead/influence the vote, and Khel is pushing one of the stronger D1 lynches I have seen.

[DeathSauce]

Ok sorry I forgot about my first post, he had done town stuff! So I haven't really had a sudden change it just I was lacking organization! So screw the second reason! Really I

was

supicious of Khel, then he did something I thought was scummy! And now I'm going to

FoS: Khelvaster

! Hope that answers all questions!

What did he do that you thought was scummy? All you said earlier was that he hadn't "done anything in the town's interest".

[DeathSauce]

Mod

: Could we see a vote count pretty please?

Added it to my post near the top of this page. Sorry thought I had done one for page 9.

[DeathSauce]

Welcome to the game, replacers!

After carefully reviewing the thread, I feel I have to put my vote on Muerrto once again. He is very good at explaining oddities people find in his posts as part of his playstyle, but the accumulation of oddities is just too much for me.

vote: Muerrto

[DeathSauce]

Answers in

GREEN

Questions for DeathSauce:

1) Right now, you have your vote on Muerrto because "the accumulation of oddities is just too much". Would you mind listing the oddities that bother you most of all? This isn't really very clear from your posts.

For the most part, it is is his seeming to coach death_omen. I really think Khelvaster found something interesting there.

2) If you had to choose between lynching death_omen and Khel today, which would you pick? Why?

Omen. In a heartbeat. I had already considered switching my vote to omen today. My reasoning is: In case I am wrong about omen/Muerrto, Muerrto seems to be an able player and is a valuable asset to the town. If omen is lynched and comes up scum, then we can argue some more about the apparent coaching, but I would be in favor of a Muerrto lynch. If death-omen comes up town, then I was wrong and we retain a strong town asset.

3) Sticking with Khel, could you explain the thought process that led you from considering he was "70% pro-town" (in #115) to having him be your top supsect (see #196) just a few days later?

Actually, I won't explain that. Sorry.

4) You've not really said what you think about Vampaneze since the random phase ended, though it's clear from #201 that - unlike some people, I fear - you've not been ignoring his posts. Could you tell us what your impression of him is at this point?

Who can tell? It is pretty rare to see a player jump around at random like that and not seem to care about it! It's a confusing tactic, to say the least, which is probably why people are ignoring him, he hurts their brains.

unvote, vote: death_omen

[DeathSauce]

[quote=Muerrto]
'll vote for either one. Period. So I'll go with the whim of the town. If it helps Pless, I'm slightly sure BOTH are town but I've no other real suspiscions yet besides Sauce and that feels too OMGUS right now.
[/quote]

Whoa, so you are prepared to hammer either Khel or Omen?

[DeathSauce]

That was the wrong answer.

unvote, vote: DeathSauce

Try again?

Nope. I don't remember agreeing to answer every question asked of me in this game, and I'm pretty sure it's nowhere in the rules that I have to. You are free to find that as suspicious as you please.

[DeathSauce]

Plessiez, I will make my answer as vague as possible while still trying to answer your question.

I was interested in observing the reaction of a particular player to my apparent change of heart.

More than that you will not get.

[DeathSauce]

No problem. My initial thought was to lynch the more experienced of the scum, that is why I voted for you. In considering the possibility that I am wrong, I decided to vote the less experienced player, in hopes that if I am wrong it is less of a detriment to the town.

Your post above about how you will be viewed as suspicious no matter who is lynched puzzles me a tad. Can you explain why you would be suspect if Khel is lynched?

[DeathSauce]

Wow, you guys were busy this weekend!

I do not believe death_omen is the cop for one second. Twice now he has been way too quick on the role claim trigger, both times unnecessarily. It is typical flailing scum behavior.

vote:death_omen

[DeathSauce]

I believe that Malchonn is corect and that Khelvaster is at L-1. I suggest that no one hammer until we can discuss this cop claim further.

[DeathSauce]

Wow, what an incredibly lucky choice that the scum decided to kill Seraphic on Night One!

Well played by everyone, it's been fun to follow along.